Yesterwynde is an incredible album. The flow of it from start to finish is perfection and that is why it has became my favourite Nightwish album journey.
I personally need more time with it. I def have been already enjoying it more than the previous two. But time will tell if it can reach the level of some of the others.
It contains some nice tracks, Astral Romance being a little gem in my view (although the later remake with updated lyrics and singing I find to be far superior), but overall it shouldn't be a controversial opinion that AFF is their weakest work.
@@filsimondi7186 Most people always do. So was not shocked to hear some folks arguing against it. Ultimately it only appears to have done well in my ranking because I put it #1 in the "concept" category, which I still stand by for the reasons indicated. But if I had not done that, it would have been at the end, cause than it would have been in competition with all the others and it would have fallen to the bottom naturally. And if that had happened. It would have ended up near the bottom in the overall.
Looking up from my lastfm I mostly like DPP and Century Child, then Imaginaerum and Once. Then Yesterwynde, EFMB, Oceanborn, Human Nature and Angels fall first. I love their dark fairytale stuff most. Also brings back a lot of memories
A very thoughtful breakdown, not totally sabotaged by your strange affection for "Angels Fall First" Looking forward to the revelation of your favorite singer.
Hey, nice graphics! Interesting going back over the albums, I agree, there was something missing, but I might have been spoiled by the live performances. Yes, you'll need more time with Yesterwynde...
Nice that you made this...thx for your work. As you said ranking music is a very subjective thing .Where I really disagree is Wishmaster. I think it is a masterpiece and not repetitive but includes some of their best work like Dead Boys Poem and Fantasmic which is outstanding I think....
I'm obsessed with FantasMic. One of all time favs that I think gets overlooked. And I really do enjoy a few other songs on it. So I naturally don't disagree with you and the band is a tricky one to rate since they really haven't released a bad album. Not too many bands can say that. Curious, on the top of your head can you think of a band that you could argue hasn't really made a bad album? Or even with Nightwish. Do you think any of them could be considered "bad"?
@@grafikmetal Hi...I like all the Nightwish albums...and you are right...there isnt a bad Nightwish album for me...that is not easy to find...bought my first vinyl albums late seventies and have a lot of albums I bought for a single good song on the album ;-) I have a special Nightwish album ranking also...EFMB is my favourite album by them...and Human 2 Nature my Number 9...but on all albums I love a least half of the songs....Greetings
One of the things i like about Nightwish is how their music matured with them ( and myself as a listener who started listening them over 20 years ago in my teens). Every singer marks different style, and i love all 3 for different reasons. While i love albums with Tarja, mostly for nostalgia sake, those albums are pretty generic european symphonic metal with female operatic vocals from late 90s-early 2000s era. With Anette, they ventured into more radio friendly and catchy metal (call it pop metal ) and some of their catchiest songs are from this era. Floor era is most mature musically and lyrics wise. They went beyond metal, more into movie soundtrack direction, but i see that as a good thing. Tuomas is in his late 40s, it would be shame if he wrote same music like he wrote in his 20s (Tarja era).
I def agree that Tuomas and the band has evolved to being more "soundtrack" oriented with full involvement of an orchestra. In general I like your way of thinking about it. My only nit pit would be that I hear a lot of folks describe the Anette era as being Pop Metal and I personally don't see it that way. Yes there were a few "Pop Metal" songs on those albums, but that has been present on all of there albums. Each one since Once for sure has had at least one or 2 radio friendly like hits. I think so many have gotten comfortable with just defaulting in saying pop metal to differentiate Anette from the other 2. I ultimately just see it as they simply evolved and Tuomas got the orchestra more and more evolved as each album went by.
@@grafikmetal Anette's vocals are more mainstream rock/metal belting type, unlike Tarja's classical opera vocals. It's not pop per se, just that it has more broad appeal in rock/metal community than operatic symphonic metal vocal sound of Tarja era. Those high notes you found not to your liking in Tarjas vocals are gone with Anette. It's anecdotal, but i know decent amount of people that disliked opera vocals in Nightwish and started to like band when they hired Anette.
When it comes to this band opinions are all over the place with all the different sounds, feelings and of course singers. To me Wishmaster is still their best, with Oceanborn close second. Their rawer, more power metal sound with the more operatic sound of Tarja is still what drove me to them and what I enjoy the most. While I adore Floor I feel the music created around her voice doesn't totally do it for me and I'm of the opinion that her powerful voice is waited in the new material.
I can value that take. Agree about their initial sound and how powerful and memorable it is. Plus its only natural to value in love with where we first become fans of a band. I also can agree that at times it doesn't always feel like Floor is being maximized to her potential. It's tough though cause I get the impression that Tuomas doesn't have quite the same level of raw inspiration and motivation as he did early on. He as mentioned it a few times in various interviews. And its natural as life goes on and many other factors come into play.
@@grafikmetal I love that blade pendulum with ghostly light shining through it. and the foreboding ocean in the background. The mix of colours. It all speaks drama to me.
Nightwish fans often have almost opposite tastes of what elements of the band they enjoy and what they do not. The craziest part of this list, however, is how high you rank Angels Fall First lol. I definitely do not share the debut album bias here, which I feel is very common with metalheads. The concept... have you read the lyrics? Absolute cringe I'm afraid, sounds like the diary of a devout Christian virgin teen. Vocals are basically karaoke demo, production, music... the only place is last - every other album is a stratosphere above in every quality and inspiration.
Agreed. I knew it was going to be interesting doing it with this band. Yea. I know, I'm crazy. I just have always had so much respect for how good the debut sounded and just always find myself coming back to it. It shocks me too. Haha. But really at the end of the day it only scored high because I placed it at number 1 in the concept category, which I still stand by. But thats just me.
@grafikmetal extremely baffling lol. I'm English major and love poetry; it's too easy to criticize the debuts lyrics on how bad and cringy they are - "you're lonely romantic teenage boy who thinks about Jesus" haha. Not to mention, Tuomas was a terrible singer. I think it's awesome you can enjoy it that much, kudos. I'm sorry you find recent albums' concepts less engaging, to me they are extremely well crafted, personally imactful, and profound. Changed my perspective on a deep level. I've grown out of music just for heartbreak, first romances, or unrequited loves, besides the nostalgia and cringe, they don't affect me now, unlike 20 years ago. Century Child is in this category of the past. Human Nature and Yesterwynde are peak inspirational for where I've arrive at, day to day, the subject contents are extremely relevant and emotionally moving. Showed me perspective that truly saved my life!
Obviously the ranking is subjective as you informed from the onset. One criticism -perhaps not even a criticism but something I would have done differently: I wouldn't have had a vocals category but perhaps that is because of the meaning vocals have for me. I'm not a lyric person - vocals are part of the music to me. So I would have included the voice part of the vocals section in the musicality section and the story part of the vocals section in the concept section. The sound of the vocals should match the instrumentation, especially in terms of mood. The lyrics should tie up with the album concept. The music (including the vocals) should, together, match the concept Just my opinion
I don't disagree with your logic. And I am always being reminded of so many people who are not a "lyrics persons". You will actually get a kick out of it. But eventually I will release a episode where I debate this in great depth with another fellow metal head who also would agree with you and went so far as to say that "No one who listens to metal cares about lyrics". Granted we were talking about industrial music. But still. I too have never been huge on lyrics and generally agree with your approach. But at the same time. There are also so many people who do care about it. So, I always find that element to be a huge debate. Over the years, I'm always tweaking how I approach ratings. I have had this 5 parameter for a lil while now. To some it up. I agree with you to some extent and find myself always always debating it myself.
@Rancid-Jane To me lyrics are extremely important too, especially in Nightwish - the genius poetry, the emotion it elicits and the thought it provokes. I'm opposite to most metalheads on this - I always care about the lyrics, and it needs to stand on its own merit as meaningful and thematic. I don't need to understand the words from hearing the vocals, but you bet 100% I always look them up and read them. Same goes for extreme metal with mostly harsh vocals. If your lyrics are not as meaningful and you don't have much to say other than "listen to this cool riff"... I may still love the band (e.g. Meshuggah), but it'll never be a top favourite or life-changing like Nightwish.
@@ImmortalDecember I wasn't attempting to downplay the importance of lyrics but merely to suggest that lyrics and vocals are two different things that should be, imo, separated. A vocalist has two primary roles (3 if you include stage presence): 1. To be a messenger - to tell the story; and 2. To be an instrumentalist - to use his/her voice in a manner that, along with the guitars, basses, drums etc, creates a sonic theme. The better bands, like Nightwish, will create a sonic theme that matches the story being told. Perhaps "lyrics" should have its own category as most albums don't continue with same concept from start to finish. But I definitely believe that vocals or singing (i.e. the sounds that come from the mouth rather than the words that come from the mouth) belongs with the other instruments
I value you effort to explain your logic on this ranking, and I believe that its almost impossible to fully separate our personal tastes from the technical level of each of the factors that you valued and evaluated in order to give us a final raking on the albuns. However, when it comes to the vocals, you really didn't get into any technical aspect, it just showed your personal dislike for more Classical vocals and how that worked as bias for pushing down some of Nightwish's most demanding albums to sing! I believe Marko is one the finest male Metal singers you can hear, and in studio (although All the Nightwish vocalists were excelent with the exception of Tuomas and Troy, who are mediocre singers) their contributions are Not all belonging same technical level of skill, Nor the overall effect is meant to be the same, because Tuomas requested different feelings and lyrical subjects for the vocalists to interpret, and all of them created original vocal arrangements over Tuomas music, those many layered back vocals are also Hard work from the vocalists... Having all of this in consideration: How can "Angels fall first" be vocally superior to "Oceanborn" or "Wishmaster" when Tarja's vocal evolution was really advancing so clearly from album to album, and Tuomas vocals on "Angels fall first" were terrible, Or even to "Endless forms most beautiful" which shows a matured singer in Floor Jansen is more polished vocally than "Angels fall first"... Actually Tarja re-recorded songs from "Angels fall first" later both in studio and live, and all the later versions sound better, even if I find her voice beautifull right from the very begining in the Nightwish demo, still Tarja was very very young and afraid of challenging herself vocally in the ways she did later (actually Tarja's vocal maturity and most of vocal peak periods happened already on her solo career, after 2006). My favourit Nighwtish album with each singer when it comes to the vocals has to be: For Anette - "Imaginaerum" ; For Floor - "Human Nature", For both Tarja and Marko - "Century Child" which as the greatest metal vocal duets Nightwish has ever recorded! And when it comes to Troy, well, he simply is Not a great singer, not as bad as Tuomas, but seriousely he is just a decent backround singer at best, but even for that he is nothing special, not in the vocal timbre and colours, not on the interpretation skills, not on the vocal technique either. Marko, Tarja and Floor are trully the vocal masters of Nightwish and their albuns reflect that, even if I feel that both Tarja's and Floor's vocals are in certain songs are pushed too much to the back, like if their ar singing far far away, that started to happen with Once and, of course it has to do with the production, not with the vocalists skills. Sorry for the long comment, it was not intended as a personal thing, as I said, I valued your effort on this video, BUT I really think your bias on classical vocals and your lack of vocal technique arguments really affect the way you cannot understand the different musical visions that Nightwish produced over time, because those musical visions required different vocal contrasts and effects that have to be technically valued, inspite of our personal taste! Have a great day/night!
First off. Very much appreciate the thoughtful response and you make some great points. 😀❤ If you may allow me. Rankings always run into the same problem: The bilateral comparison complication. It's like with sports. There will always be a contradiction that occurs because of the natural flow where at some point you end up having a team ahead of another despite that team beating that specific team head to head. When doing an albums ranking, you end up in the same situation. As you laid out beautifully. I don't at all disagree with your logic. But few things to add color on: Nightwish is one of the rare bands that don't really have bad albums. So you get into nitpicks and well like you said eventually personal preferences. Skill/talent doesn't always equate to results. I mean the classical vocal skill alone. Where as I have no doubt is incredibly difficult to achieve. Doesn't mean that it will sound great to everyone. I mean there has probably been plenty of album covers that I rated poor over the years despite the skill it took to create it. Just because so much skill, effort, and passion goes into something. Doesn't always mean we agree on the end result. 😉 When it comes to Angels Fall First. I Iove your approach and logic. I think for me though what gets lost is how incredible she sounded right out of the gates at such a young age. That almost never gets talked about. And I guess I went a lil overboard on my value metric on that. But thats ultimately why I scored AFF the way I did is because still till this day I don't think it gets the love and credit that it deserves for doing such a standout job at introducing the world to this new style right from the get go. It's why I put it ahead of some other like with the vocals for that reason and for concept. And Tarja in particular. I ultimately valued her ability to be that good initially higher than her evolution on the next couple albums. Also because I try to avoid that voice in my head "well it's newer so it must be better because we all get better with practice" cause obviously that is technically always the case. But it makes for boring results. haha. As for Endless Forms. I just felt like when it came to comparisons. What became something I found difficult to rate Endless Forms on compared to so many of the others was the linear voice only coming from Floor. Yes she (from a technical standpoint) sounded incredible. But that is pretty much the case on all the albums. But the fact that she primarily does all the singing and that not being the case with almost all the others. It struggled in comparisons (right or wrong.) Thanks again for sharing your insightful perspectives!
@@grafikmetal I tried to answer in a more complete way, but I don't know why, my answer doesn't appear here. I just saw now that you uploaded another video concerning the Nightwish vocalist, so I'm gonna try to write it here. BUT I wanna make sure I THANK YOU here for your kind and comprehensive answer! I love Both Nightwish with Floor and Tarja's solo work! Both Top vocalists, while with different skills and limitations! Have a great day / Goodnight! \m/ \m/
330 / 5 000 It's hard to try to choose the best of the excellent ones and it's pointless. Every album has both great songs and not so great songs. But the choice of songs is also a matter of taste. Your rank does not take into account the development that Nightwish has had, from this point of view the newest is always the best, because it is the result of a long development.
Naturally there is some truth to that. But any artist will tell you that is not the case. 1. Because they will almost always tell you that they love everything they have done. haha. and 2. Inspiration is usually at the heart and soul of any project and it changes overtime for better or worse. But yea, of course a personal ranking is always subjective. And I also did give a lot of credit for the evolution in the creativity, production, and skill of the new music. So the journey is still present. ; )
I see it as you do...today Yesterwinde is my favourite album,for me not only because its the new album,but because for me there are 10 songs on it I love and maybe 2 that are very enjoyable
10. Yesterwynde 9. Human Nature 8. Oceanborn 7. Wishmaster 6. Angels Fall First 5. Imaginaerum 4. Endless Forms Most Beautiful 3. Century Child 2. Dark Passion Play 1. Once
I def have my issues with it. But in general its always been slim pickings with this band and their artwork. So it kinda shocked me cause at least for the first time in like forever it wasn't another dark dull muted art. haha.
it's weird that the weakest singer of the three live have make 2 great album with Nightwish. I prefer for exemple when amaranth are sing by Floor but yeah you have right. I'm thinking like you, Tarja voice don't really fit with Nightwish. Only opera ish... arras me. I prefer Tarja when she sing a litle bit more normally like in the song Nemo but Floor make that song so much better live than Tarja . but yeah i have some kind of the same fealing than you with the ranking
True. But it still is the some of all it's parts. Even Tuomas would say that. ; ) Yea. Nightwish has a remarkable catalog because of the unique differences between "the singer eras". Makes it a lil more interesting than some others.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "crap" but generally can somewhat agree with you. haha. Which is a shame cause you would have thought better results would have come out given the addition of Floor.
@grafikmetal To me they don't belong in the same era. EMFB is closer to Imaginaerum musically which is DPP light. Human Nature is a big departure in the progressive direction and Yesterwynde a step furthest. EMFB is catchy, straightforward, Eurovision-esque. Yesterwynde is the complete opposite, enigmatic, unpredictable, more personal investment into this has yielded fantastic reward. To me EMFB is near the bottom of their albums, Human Nature is in the top 4, top 3 being Yesterwynde, Dark Passion Play, & Once. Not necessarily in order and order may change.
Yesterwynde is an incredible album. The flow of it from start to finish is perfection and that is why it has became my favourite Nightwish album journey.
I personally need more time with it. I def have been already enjoying it more than the previous two. But time will tell if it can reach the level of some of the others.
"Showtime, Storytime" (2013), hands down.
You went to a lot of work to do this ranking. Wow! Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it. Were you surprised by anything. Do you have a personal fav?
Angels Fall First, is the one album I really don't care to listen to.
It contains some nice tracks, Astral Romance being a little gem in my view (although the later remake with updated lyrics and singing I find to be far superior), but overall it shouldn't be a controversial opinion that AFF is their weakest work.
@@filsimondi7186 Most people always do. So was not shocked to hear some folks arguing against it. Ultimately it only appears to have done well in my ranking because I put it #1 in the "concept" category, which I still stand by for the reasons indicated. But if I had not done that, it would have been at the end, cause than it would have been in competition with all the others and it would have fallen to the bottom naturally. And if that had happened. It would have ended up near the bottom in the overall.
@@filsimondi7186 Each of us has our own tastes. I wasn't criticizing you as much as pointing out that there are differences in perception.
Looking up from my lastfm I mostly like DPP and Century Child, then Imaginaerum and Once. Then Yesterwynde, EFMB, Oceanborn, Human Nature and Angels fall first.
I love their dark fairytale stuff most. Also brings back a lot of memories
A very thoughtful breakdown, not totally sabotaged by your strange affection for "Angels Fall First"
Looking forward to the revelation of your favorite singer.
Haha. Yea. Even I'm shocked I keep enjoying it after all these years.
Yesterwynde is flipping amazing
Hey, nice graphics!
Interesting going back over the albums, I agree, there was something missing, but I might have been spoiled by the live performances.
Yes, you'll need more time with Yesterwynde...
Looking forward to listening to it more. 😀
Nice that you made this...thx for your work. As you said ranking music is a very subjective thing .Where I really disagree is Wishmaster. I think it is a masterpiece and not repetitive but includes some of their best work like Dead Boys Poem and Fantasmic which is outstanding I think....
I'm obsessed with FantasMic. One of all time favs that I think gets overlooked. And I really do enjoy a few other songs on it. So I naturally don't disagree with you and the band is a tricky one to rate since they really haven't released a bad album. Not too many bands can say that. Curious, on the top of your head can you think of a band that you could argue hasn't really made a bad album? Or even with Nightwish. Do you think any of them could be considered "bad"?
@@grafikmetal Hi...I like all the Nightwish albums...and you are right...there isnt a bad Nightwish album for me...that is not easy to find...bought my first vinyl albums late seventies and have a lot of albums I bought for a single good song on the album ;-)
I have a special Nightwish album ranking also...EFMB is my favourite album by them...and Human 2 Nature my Number 9...but on all albums I love a least half of the songs....Greetings
Ahh, here is the ranking video you promised. Cool.
One of the things i like about Nightwish is how their music matured with them ( and myself as a listener who started listening them over 20 years ago in my teens). Every singer marks different style, and i love all 3 for different reasons. While i love albums with Tarja, mostly for nostalgia sake, those albums are pretty generic european symphonic metal with female operatic vocals from late 90s-early 2000s era. With Anette, they ventured into more radio friendly and catchy metal (call it pop metal ) and some of their catchiest songs are from this era. Floor era is most mature musically and lyrics wise. They went beyond metal, more into movie soundtrack direction, but i see that as a good thing. Tuomas is in his late 40s, it would be shame if he wrote same music like he wrote in his 20s (Tarja era).
I def agree that Tuomas and the band has evolved to being more "soundtrack" oriented with full involvement of an orchestra. In general I like your way of thinking about it. My only nit pit would be that I hear a lot of folks describe the Anette era as being Pop Metal and I personally don't see it that way. Yes there were a few "Pop Metal" songs on those albums, but that has been present on all of there albums. Each one since Once for sure has had at least one or 2 radio friendly like hits. I think so many have gotten comfortable with just defaulting in saying pop metal to differentiate Anette from the other 2. I ultimately just see it as they simply evolved and Tuomas got the orchestra more and more evolved as each album went by.
@@grafikmetal Anette's vocals are more mainstream rock/metal belting type, unlike Tarja's classical opera vocals. It's not pop per se, just that it has more broad appeal in rock/metal community than operatic symphonic metal vocal sound of Tarja era. Those high notes you found not to your liking in Tarjas vocals are gone with Anette. It's anecdotal, but i know decent amount of people that disliked opera vocals in Nightwish and started to like band when they hired Anette.
When it comes to this band opinions are all over the place with all the different sounds, feelings and of course singers. To me Wishmaster is still their best, with Oceanborn close second. Their rawer, more power metal sound with the more operatic sound of Tarja is still what drove me to them and what I enjoy the most. While I adore Floor I feel the music created around her voice doesn't totally do it for me and I'm of the opinion that her powerful voice is waited in the new material.
I can value that take. Agree about their initial sound and how powerful and memorable it is. Plus its only natural to value in love with where we first become fans of a band. I also can agree that at times it doesn't always feel like Floor is being maximized to her potential. It's tough though cause I get the impression that Tuomas doesn't have quite the same level of raw inspiration and motivation as he did early on. He as mentioned it a few times in various interviews. And its natural as life goes on and many other factors come into play.
Dark Passion Play is the one art cover I really like. The others are somewhat duds, I agree.
Yea. It still puzzles me. I just don't get it. Haha. Fascinating. What did you like about Dark Passion Play?
@@grafikmetal I love that blade pendulum with ghostly light shining through it. and the foreboding ocean in the background. The mix of colours.
It all speaks drama to me.
I would say which ever your listening to at the time.
Personally:
Oceanborn
Imaginaerum
Once
Dark Passion Play
Solid list. Pretty aligned, outside of Oceanborn but again not a shocker and I used to be obsessed with it. So good list!
@@grafikmetal Nah. Oceanborn is their opus. Redefined the genre alongside Therion’s Vovin. Nothing touches those albums.
Nightwish fans often have almost opposite tastes of what elements of the band they enjoy and what they do not. The craziest part of this list, however, is how high you rank Angels Fall First lol. I definitely do not share the debut album bias here, which I feel is very common with metalheads. The concept... have you read the lyrics? Absolute cringe I'm afraid, sounds like the diary of a devout Christian virgin teen. Vocals are basically karaoke demo, production, music... the only place is last - every other album is a stratosphere above in every quality and inspiration.
Agreed. I knew it was going to be interesting doing it with this band. Yea. I know, I'm crazy. I just have always had so much respect for how good the debut sounded and just always find myself coming back to it. It shocks me too. Haha. But really at the end of the day it only scored high because I placed it at number 1 in the concept category, which I still stand by. But thats just me.
@grafikmetal extremely baffling lol. I'm English major and love poetry; it's too easy to criticize the debuts lyrics on how bad and cringy they are - "you're lonely romantic teenage boy who thinks about Jesus" haha. Not to mention, Tuomas was a terrible singer. I think it's awesome you can enjoy it that much, kudos. I'm sorry you find recent albums' concepts less engaging, to me they are extremely well crafted, personally imactful, and profound. Changed my perspective on a deep level. I've grown out of music just for heartbreak, first romances, or unrequited loves, besides the nostalgia and cringe, they don't affect me now, unlike 20 years ago. Century Child is in this category of the past. Human Nature and Yesterwynde are peak inspirational for where I've arrive at, day to day, the subject contents are extremely relevant and emotionally moving. Showed me perspective that truly saved my life!
@@grafikmetal I really dig the debut too. It has a certain charm that I think is lost on a lot of people.
Once and my ever favourite Storytime and the whole Video. Great! My Opinion.
Storytime is so damn catchy.
I agree about the art, I think the artwork is pretty bad in the whole symphonic metal genre.... really hard to find a good merch for exemple.
Obviously the ranking is subjective as you informed from the onset. One criticism -perhaps not even a criticism but something I would have done differently: I wouldn't have had a vocals category but perhaps that is because of the meaning vocals have for me. I'm not a lyric person - vocals are part of the music to me. So I would have included the voice part of the vocals section in the musicality section and the story part of the vocals section in the concept section. The sound of the vocals should match the instrumentation, especially in terms of mood. The lyrics should tie up with the album concept.
The music (including the vocals) should, together, match the concept
Just my opinion
I don't disagree with your logic. And I am always being reminded of so many people who are not a "lyrics persons". You will actually get a kick out of it. But eventually I will release a episode where I debate this in great depth with another fellow metal head who also would agree with you and went so far as to say that "No one who listens to metal cares about lyrics". Granted we were talking about industrial music. But still. I too have never been huge on lyrics and generally agree with your approach. But at the same time. There are also so many people who do care about it. So, I always find that element to be a huge debate. Over the years, I'm always tweaking how I approach ratings. I have had this 5 parameter for a lil while now. To some it up. I agree with you to some extent and find myself always always debating it myself.
@@grafikmetal Lyrics mean a great deal to me. But I know people who merely think of it as music. We get along fine with that.
@Rancid-Jane To me lyrics are extremely important too, especially in Nightwish - the genius poetry, the emotion it elicits and the thought it provokes. I'm opposite to most metalheads on this - I always care about the lyrics, and it needs to stand on its own merit as meaningful and thematic. I don't need to understand the words from hearing the vocals, but you bet 100% I always look them up and read them. Same goes for extreme metal with mostly harsh vocals. If your lyrics are not as meaningful and you don't have much to say other than "listen to this cool riff"... I may still love the band (e.g. Meshuggah), but it'll never be a top favourite or life-changing like Nightwish.
@@ImmortalDecember I wasn't attempting to downplay the importance of lyrics but merely to suggest that lyrics and vocals are two different things that should be, imo, separated.
A vocalist has two primary roles (3 if you include stage presence):
1. To be a messenger - to tell the story; and
2. To be an instrumentalist - to use his/her voice in a manner that, along with the guitars, basses, drums etc, creates a sonic theme. The better bands, like Nightwish, will create a sonic theme that matches the story being told.
Perhaps "lyrics" should have its own category as most albums don't continue with same concept from start to finish.
But I definitely believe that vocals or singing (i.e. the sounds that come from the mouth rather than the words that come from the mouth) belongs with the other instruments
I value you effort to explain your logic on this ranking, and I believe that its almost impossible to fully separate our personal tastes from the technical level of each of the factors that you valued and evaluated in order to give us a final raking on the albuns.
However, when it comes to the vocals, you really didn't get into any technical aspect, it just showed your personal dislike for more Classical vocals and how that worked as bias for pushing down some of Nightwish's most demanding albums to sing!
I believe Marko is one the finest male Metal singers you can hear, and in studio (although All the Nightwish vocalists were excelent with the exception of Tuomas and Troy, who are mediocre singers) their contributions are Not all belonging same technical level of skill, Nor the overall effect is meant to be the same, because Tuomas requested different feelings and lyrical subjects for the vocalists to interpret, and all of them created original vocal arrangements over Tuomas music, those many layered back vocals are also Hard work from the vocalists... Having all of this in consideration:
How can "Angels fall first" be vocally superior to "Oceanborn" or "Wishmaster" when Tarja's vocal evolution was really advancing so clearly from album to album, and Tuomas vocals on "Angels fall first" were terrible, Or even to "Endless forms most beautiful" which shows a matured singer in Floor Jansen is more polished vocally than "Angels fall first"... Actually Tarja re-recorded songs from "Angels fall first" later both in studio and live, and all the later versions sound better, even if I find her voice beautifull right from the very begining in the Nightwish demo, still Tarja was very very young and afraid of challenging herself vocally in the ways she did later (actually Tarja's vocal maturity and most of vocal peak periods happened already on her solo career, after 2006).
My favourit Nighwtish album with each singer when it comes to the vocals has to be: For Anette - "Imaginaerum" ; For Floor - "Human Nature", For both Tarja and Marko - "Century Child" which as the greatest metal vocal duets Nightwish has ever recorded!
And when it comes to Troy, well, he simply is Not a great singer, not as bad as Tuomas, but seriousely he is just a decent backround singer at best, but even for that he is nothing special, not in the vocal timbre and colours, not on the interpretation skills, not on the vocal technique either. Marko, Tarja and Floor are trully the vocal masters of Nightwish and their albuns reflect that, even if I feel that both Tarja's and Floor's vocals are in certain songs are pushed too much to the back, like if their ar singing far far away, that started to happen with Once and, of course it has to do with the production, not with the vocalists skills.
Sorry for the long comment, it was not intended as a personal thing, as I said, I valued your effort on this video, BUT I really think your bias on classical vocals and your lack of vocal technique arguments really affect the way you cannot understand the different musical visions that Nightwish produced over time, because those musical visions required different vocal contrasts and effects that have to be technically valued, inspite of our personal taste!
Have a great day/night!
First off. Very much appreciate the thoughtful response and you make some great points. 😀❤ If you may allow me. Rankings always run into the same problem: The bilateral comparison complication. It's like with sports. There will always be a contradiction that occurs because of the natural flow where at some point you end up having a team ahead of another despite that team beating that specific team head to head. When doing an albums ranking, you end up in the same situation. As you laid out beautifully. I don't at all disagree with your logic. But few things to add color on: Nightwish is one of the rare bands that don't really have bad albums. So you get into nitpicks and well like you said eventually personal preferences. Skill/talent doesn't always equate to results. I mean the classical vocal skill alone. Where as I have no doubt is incredibly difficult to achieve. Doesn't mean that it will sound great to everyone. I mean there has probably been plenty of album covers that I rated poor over the years despite the skill it took to create it. Just because so much skill, effort, and passion goes into something. Doesn't always mean we agree on the end result. 😉 When it comes to Angels Fall First. I Iove your approach and logic. I think for me though what gets lost is how incredible she sounded right out of the gates at such a young age. That almost never gets talked about. And I guess I went a lil overboard on my value metric on that. But thats ultimately why I scored AFF the way I did is because still till this day I don't think it gets the love and credit that it deserves for doing such a standout job at introducing the world to this new style right from the get go. It's why I put it ahead of some other like with the vocals for that reason and for concept. And Tarja in particular. I ultimately valued her ability to be that good initially higher than her evolution on the next couple albums. Also because I try to avoid that voice in my head "well it's newer so it must be better because we all get better with practice" cause obviously that is technically always the case. But it makes for boring results. haha. As for Endless Forms. I just felt like when it came to comparisons. What became something I found difficult to rate Endless Forms on compared to so many of the others was the linear voice only coming from Floor. Yes she (from a technical standpoint) sounded incredible. But that is pretty much the case on all the albums. But the fact that she primarily does all the singing and that not being the case with almost all the others. It struggled in comparisons (right or wrong.) Thanks again for sharing your insightful perspectives!
@@grafikmetal I tried to answer in a more complete way, but I don't know why, my answer doesn't appear here. I just saw now that you uploaded another video concerning the Nightwish vocalist, so I'm gonna try to write it here.
BUT I wanna make sure I THANK YOU here for your kind and comprehensive answer!
I love Both Nightwish with Floor and Tarja's solo work! Both Top vocalists, while with different skills and limitations!
Have a great day / Goodnight!
\m/ \m/
330 / 5 000
It's hard to try to choose the best of the excellent ones and it's pointless. Every album has both great songs and not so great songs. But the choice of songs is also a matter of taste. Your rank does not take into account the development that Nightwish has had, from this point of view the newest is always the best, because it is the result of a long development.
Naturally there is some truth to that. But any artist will tell you that is not the case. 1. Because they will almost always tell you that they love everything they have done. haha. and 2. Inspiration is usually at the heart and soul of any project and it changes overtime for better or worse. But yea, of course a personal ranking is always subjective. And I also did give a lot of credit for the evolution in the creativity, production, and skill of the new music. So the journey is still present. ; )
I see it as you do...today Yesterwinde is my favourite album,for me not only because its the new album,but because for me there are 10 songs on it I love and maybe 2 that are very enjoyable
ther was no sportify then
The best of Nightwish??? You can do asked , what is the best life. In my opion ,Yesterwynde is the best. Okay, Human. //:.Nature
Haha. That is a great way of looking at it.
@@grafikmetal 🤘
Not bad Anette not bad.
Probably a surprise huh?
No because she’s on two fantastic albums. And it’s her voice.
She was extremely important in the Nightwish journey.
10. Yesterwynde
9. Human Nature
8. Oceanborn
7. Wishmaster
6. Angels Fall First
5. Imaginaerum
4. Endless Forms Most Beautiful
3. Century Child
2. Dark Passion Play
1. Once
Man does not like Endless Forms lol
I disagree about Yesterwynde art cover. It is rather blecch.
I def have my issues with it. But in general its always been slim pickings with this band and their artwork. So it kinda shocked me cause at least for the first time in like forever it wasn't another dark dull muted art. haha.
@@grafikmetal I seem to gravitate to dark art.
it's weird that the weakest singer of the three live have make 2 great album with Nightwish. I prefer for exemple when amaranth are sing by Floor but yeah you have right. I'm thinking like you, Tarja voice don't really fit with Nightwish. Only opera ish... arras me. I prefer Tarja when she sing a litle bit more normally like in the song Nemo but Floor make that song so much better live than Tarja . but yeah i have some kind of the same fealing than you with the ranking
sorry tuomas make the albums , not the singer .
True. But it still is the some of all it's parts. Even Tuomas would say that. ; ) Yea. Nightwish has a remarkable catalog because of the unique differences between "the singer eras". Makes it a lil more interesting than some others.
The last 3 cd's are crap
I wouldn't go so far as to say "crap" but generally can somewhat agree with you. haha. Which is a shame cause you would have thought better results would have come out given the addition of Floor.
I love the last three albums.
@grafikmetal To me they don't belong in the same era. EMFB is closer to Imaginaerum musically which is DPP light. Human Nature is a big departure in the progressive direction and Yesterwynde a step furthest. EMFB is catchy, straightforward, Eurovision-esque. Yesterwynde is the complete opposite, enigmatic, unpredictable, more personal investment into this has yielded fantastic reward. To me EMFB is near the bottom of their albums, Human Nature is in the top 4, top 3 being Yesterwynde, Dark Passion Play, & Once. Not necessarily in order and order may change.
@@grafikmetalat least we can appreciate Floor's voice with After Forever & Revamp
For me, Endless Forms has a few pretty decent tracks, but the last two bore me to tears.