P&S ModCast 396 - Defining the Shill
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- Primary & Secondary ModCast
The panel discusses what the term shill means and what impact unchecked shilling could do.
Host: Matt Landfair
Panel:
Brass Facts
Focus Tripp
Hop
Audio version:
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Brass Facts had a good rant about the responsibility we have as content creators.
Go luck keeping Hop and Brass Fact on a topic.
Fascinating
At 29:10 I agree with hop, I met Don (sootch) and I think his personality is just all positive. I genuinely think he likes everything
Yea but he never gives a bad review 😂
Three guys and a lesbian talking about gun industry stuff. Doesn’t get any better than this
😂😂
DED 😆
13:01 This is every Colion Noir "review"
Like for the like god! Comments for the comment throne! Also very pumped to see all three of these guys getting recognized here. Willingness to embrace the new guard is rare in this space and I'm happy (though not entirely surprised) to see it from P&S
@gulkash1188 they are doing good stuff, and it would be foolish to deny that.
Focus's audio is S tier
Too bad the speaking isnt
It's because he's on the spectrum
As confirmed by Lead & Steel
@@Alexanderofthe9thas confirmed by focus
F in the chat for one head scratch for Nova. Sad to hear that she may not be doing well.
Reminds me of a GBRS bid last year or the year before when they had be if the Sig comped handguns. It turned into a sales ad more so than a review. Mike Glover did something similar with the same Sig handgun where a “review” turned into a sales ad.
Hops the go to man for truth.
He seems the least easily-impressed and most practical in his takes. The gist of his I appreciate the most is “this product will be great for those looking to fulfill requirements A, B, and C but product X does A better, Y does B better, etc.”
So many are concerned with “S” tier and it usually isn’t applicable for most use cases👌
Lmao of course I come into the premier shortly before my name.
Well you got tonight.
Dude reno you're so tall and strong
PS when are you doing another collab with gunthots, the people™ demand an answer.
DO STEROIDS FOCUSTRIP
:)
Only if you have a chronic injury to heal, while also lifting heavy constantly and putting the injury at increased risk 😂
@@JakeCamonah bpc-157 for injuries
The grossest kind of shilling these days is” full disclosure, brand X sent me their product, but no money has changed hands and it will not affect my review in anyway”.
Why? Giving you a product to test, and paying you to test a product are two different things.
@@judahparker9684 if you don’t say nice things, you won’t keep getting products for free. If there’s any connection to the company from the reviewer, it’s impossible to be impartial.
@judahparker9684
GT and Brandon both got the Sig Spear.
Brandon pointed out its flaws very obviously. GT did not.
GT got to play with the M250 and super spicy new round. Brandon did not
@@Alexfreimuthif this binary situation is real as you suggest what’s the solution?
@@hikeskool Explain that it is not a proper review, and that you won’t be suggesting that viewers buy or not buy the item. More like a rundown of features. Some guys do this.
Holy shit, three of my favorite guntubers on one panel?
If people knew how much money leviathan group channels received for a review, then the channels would never be considered reputable.
@dodsonarmsco and for many that is motivation to be part of it - to sell your soul since credibility and integrity does not matter for them.
@PrimaryAndSecondary it is interesting that one of the large channels adv sheet was leaked about 5 years ago showing they were getting a minimum of $30,000.00 for a "review video". Their adsence revenue was around $150,000.00 per month on top of sponsorship and paid reviews.
@@dodsonarmscoiv8888 don't beat around the bush
@@dodsonarmscoif that company is vying for a government contract and makes 10x that amount yearly that’s fine. If you can’t compete with a product you don’t deserve to compete with marketing $$$
@@johnb.6468 you really do not know what the conversation is about.
Hop, brass and focus are the three best gun tube channels out there
It's too bad Hop isn't happy with his old video game content. Loved his stuff way before he moved into firearms
The “Paul Harrell’s” of RUclips are long gone. He’s a true Guntuber.
I'm not a fan of fuddlore
@@PrimaryAndSecondary "Fuddlore" is a term used occasionally by people who know what they're talking about (I would count you among them), but almost exclusively by people who have no first-hand knowledge of the topics being discussed and low-single-digit years of shooting experience with double-digit years of gaming and guntube consumption experience.
Example. "Small calibers don't bounce around inside the body. That's fuddlore." Okay. Small calibers don't *reliably* bounce around inside the body, so you shouldn't include that in part of your tactical considerations, but it certainly *can*. As someone who has had a small caliber bullet bounce around inside of him, it's getting a little old being called a fudd just for knowing it "can" happen.
Other examples would be parallax, coriolis, spin drift, etc. in long-range shooting. "Is coriolis a thing or is that fudd lore?" Questions like that are common on the internet from people who have never shot far enough to know the answers, but are quick to call others on their "fuddlore" that they have no experience with, and quick to be reassured of their assumptions by other people on the internet who have never shot long-range.
@@CutlassOutdoors fudd confirmed; TLDR👌
@@hikeskool At least I don't "like" my own comments.
@@CutlassOutdoors what?
As someone that made a channel “for the fun of the game” like you mentioned, I appreciate all of this insight and perspective. I agree with just about everything (only 70% through right now) and these are great points to keep in mind for me moving forward. Great content as always!
Love seeing Focus, Brass, and Hop talk. I’m looking forward to seeing what Matt is about.
Focus is making the rounds on this all from living in a glass house. At 19:40 I agree with brass facts, I think a lot of reviewers don’t watch other people’s videos and they are only using a sample size of one. I think if you run a channel that does reviews and ratings you better have a video on the product before you take a sponsorship from them.
SGAmmo has always been my ammo Father
@@jlew6890 I’ve never had a bad experience with the dudes. Just more read it drama?
Watched this twice all the way through. Great conversations and breakdowns. Best part is hops face when you guys wouldn't let him go on his criterion rant.
All those guys are always welcome. Great panel.
After listening to this ive just come to the conclusion that all of my stuff is garbage and i should never trust anyone
Sometime I think it would be cool if you had KitBadger on I think he’s another one that puts out a common sense review. That said I realize that guntubing is a business, I just wish that there would be a few more honest reviews like Brass and Hop do. Like what is it that a normal person would need or use? I like P&S and the above mentioned for those reasons. I like more of the “working man” type episodes, like what am I getting for that 2000 dollar optic as opposed to the 1000 dollar one. All good points here though! Thanks Matt
7:26 hop looks like hes trying to remember how to or what its like to smile
Reminds me of when John Connor tries to teach the t800 to smile in T2
Sad to hear that Flux has betrayed Brass like that. I was planning on grabbing a p365 chasis but I'm gonna pass if that's how they want to roll with creators who offered very very very mild criticisms
I wanna see the bit of brassfacts neti-potting
makes me want to neti pot rn
As a famous content creator...I agree with Brass Facts in regards to our responsibility.
The only part I’ve got from SOLGW was a blem FCD ASF-50. So sad.
I'm a proud shill for Focus Shooting LLC. Thanks for the share!!
1:45:00 the old school IV8888 review bias drama.
Is hop talking about the LaRue C-Note?
35:40 I'm excited for the Hop tren arc
More Brassfacts Friday 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Focustripp is a shill for chrysler crossfires. He gave it a glowing review a long time ago and now it has me trying to find a stick shift one. Thanks Focustripp, you're costing me money
Don't do it!
@FocusTripp You're not my real dad. My financial irresponsibility is my own issue. For real though I haven't seen too many issues with them so long as they've been maintained well. It's just a mercedes engine in a lightweight goofy looking body
My buddy has a Crossfire.. the only thing he has left after his Chrysler dealership went bankrupt its a fun car.
I'm looking forward to this
@1:17:57 who is “the sandals guy?”
Tacticon Armament guy.
@@AncientGloom honestly never heard of dude. Thanks 👌
I'm really surprised Olight didn't come up. I wonder if it's been enough time that's passed that people forget how Olight was one of the first companies to really run hard with the new affiliate/referral programs while astroturfing the shit out of gunspaces with positive reviews. Sure, today, it's kind of quaint and funny, but MAN, they pushed a LOT of bad products through a LOT of scummy tactics. Of course, this coincided with a certain South American rainforest company also pushing affiliate link money around.
It seems they've maybe "grown up" as a brand a bit, and plenty of people like them (I do not), but I cannot help but stop and think about the things they did to get that level of marketshare.
@@SayanGiant I don't even think about them
The great thing is you can now in hindsight tell if someone is a shill from there olight ads
I'll never buy Olight.. they're as bad as Baerskin.. always a "sale " and won't watch channels that advertise them or " reviews" the product. Same as when Scottish Titles was pushing scams .. only fools didn't realize it was fake.
What was the deal there, specifically? Didn’t the one guy who self-deleted use sketchy batteries? I don’t know anything about the product and have never seen one in person but haven’t they _always_ been marketed as “decent quality, low price?”
@@hikeskool Reddit went in an uproar after some guy installed non-approved batteries then introduced the flashlight to his car battery with his mouth. Batteries plus was actually the defendant in that case but no one actually does any fact checking. This resulted in a huge campaign to go after Olight but at the heart of it, none of it made sense.
I wish more of my Olights broke so I could join the rant train but mine still work....so I wait to join em.
I need these three to do this like once every two weeks.
This validates why I appreciate these guys so much amd value their opinions. We need more people like them on RUclips. Thank you for making this video. First time viewer on this channel, but knew I had to watch it when it popped up on my feed.
Why can't everyone just be right about everything all the time 🤔
Just stop being wrong it's that easy
50:20
Why is there no semi-auto KSG? Why was the 32" Target RFB killed? Kel-Tec don't care
I have been saying it for over ten years at this point “keltec should be an r&d company for the gun industry, rugers lcp is essentially a better keltec” and i love keltec designs just not their execution.
Really wanted to buy the products you are all shilling but I spent all my money on raid shadow legends already
Good stuff here, gents. Thanks.
Who’s the sandals guy
Someone else in the comments answered my question asking the same with "Tacticon Armament guy."
Never heard of him personally👌
Hop wants us to forget examinedlifeofgaming
I have a direct from china motorcycle that was made by a company that made engines and parts for several major reputable manufacturers. Does that make my Chinese jank just as good as a Yamaha or kawasaki? Hell No. Do I regret buying it? No, it still does motorcycle things and I knew going into it that it was Chinese jank and not a Honda in disguise. Lower end stuff can be serviceable and there’s nothing wrong with cheaping out as long as you have realistic expectations and are honest about your experiences with others. If I’d taken seriously the people who insisted that it was a top notch bike I would’ve been beyond pissed off and disappointed. I like PSA but insisting that it’s just as good as a Daniel or whatever is doing everyone a disservice when what they really mean by that is “it’s probably adequate”
@@sssss8700 yes; people have a very serious issue believing the words “overpriced” and “expensive” are interchangeable👌
Learning that Hop listens to Bone Thugs n Harmony made my day
Ironic the Taurus goes 5k rounds with no issues while the Sig will cost 2-5x more and goes off in your holster. But we all know what's more recommended online.
everybody says glock huh
It must be garbage.... gonzo seems to be a bit obsessed.
@@sundayswinter6719 I think “everyone” always has a “unique” take why Glock isn’t a good choice. Hop did a good job of explaining this in his video “the actual Glock killer will be a Glock clone”👌
Let’s start a discussion about 1:04:35
I’m on the side of both, personally I don’t make my “main squeezes” PSA products because I always second guess the QC, what I do like about them is I can tell people who want a gun but know little about them and solid firearm at a reasonable price. Then if they want to learn more or own better stuff I’ll be glad to help out, but PSA will get people to that door.
An issue I have is that I don’t want them to go out of style or business, but I don’t want to buy their products. The SABER line of rifles still has mixes QC issues…
@novanoble181 I think if people are going into it knowing the sides of the issues the better off they will be. Unfortunately, most don't know. A lot if people own firearms they don't shoot and won't know there is a pending issue within their next magazine but they equate ownership with knowledge and experience and will give the unused product a glowing review.
To guys like us, that makes sense. I agree that they are still hyped up a lot more than they are worth, but every company can still give you a bad product either by accident or design. I still think PSA is a good buy (not the ultimate buy) they will fix your issues, and if you keep contact with your friends you can be there hopefully at the range when you can point out an issue with their product for them.
For me, recognizing these deficiencies in public awareness just reinforces the need to have open discussions about this topic to help people navigate this. The sooner people recognize they are the products being sold, not the object, which is the subject of the video, hopefully, they can be more decerning in who they spend their time with.
Id just tell them to buy a BCM upper and aero lower.
@@UMADBRO64 what were the specific circumstances of your Aero and Aimpoint anecdotes above?
I like how every time hop and brass rant about not digging into other youtubers or personalities trip is doing the side eye "is this about me digging into drama?" lmao
Before we started, I kinda mentioned to try not to dig specific people or channels unless necessary
Gf: Are you watching porn?
Me: Nah babe I’m watching a show I like and the guests are a nice lesbian couple who own a corgi and a local trustwothy autistic man who was exiled to the badlands by Jay Inslee.
Who is the guy in sandals Hop keeps mentioning?
@@spencerheffelfinger782 in for answer👌
"When people talk about ar headspace it makes me insane", lmao yes
Ha I remember the turkish elcan
The three wise kings have bestowed upon me *knowledge, nuance, and perspective.* I am *enlightened.*
Hop and Brock can turn any topic interesting
As someone who built a social media presence large enough to sell and retire at age 40 I’ll chime in and say, It’s simple:
Operate with integrity and don’t worry about the haters.
Fwiw…. Hop nailed it. Know the company, know the people, know the product. Tell the truth and pimp the shit out of it if you believe it all the above. Integrity.
@@camopirate5629 what did you build and sell?
These mindsets remind me a lot of Karl but currently without the questionable personal ideologies on display
I have almost no issue with PSA, I don't think anyone with a brain, even if they aren't a gun guy, is under the illusion that their 400 dollar AR is duty grade. Personally I haven't had any of their products break on me, everything ran out of the box. So for anyone who isn't going to use their shit heavily its an easy choice, and I think everyone in the industry is pretty transparent about that. I haven't heard anyone seriously refer to a Sabre or a dagger or a Jakl as duty grade, I think the biggest controversy is with their AKs right now. My biggest issue with them is that if you follow their prices their shit stays the same price and they will call it a sale... 300 BO fathers day sale, .65 cents a round....... but ammos a commodity so I guess its to be expected, albeit annoying.
@MannElite Sadly I have run into many who claim duty grade.
“More human than human” I got the reference and laughed Hop don’t worry about these chumps
Man, love to hear what Hop is saying. Drama for sport. Factions and crapping on a product only because you heard it from someone else.
I spy with my eye, a GunSlaps flag on Focus’s wall
So there's the title "defining the shill" then I sit through 2 mins of ad reads. You made your point
@@ChelseaOnFire learn what the definition of shill means. Ads aren't shilling.
When will P&S be uploaded to Rumble?
@judahparker9684 there's a limit to their size, so I don't know
2:38:57
The Night force argument is always interesting. We all know they're great optics, but we also all know they're just as badly overpriced as surefire products are. And there are products that perform just as well for less
@@pitchwayne is Surefire “overpriced” or “expensive”?
@@hikeskool surefire flashlights are dreadfully overpriced for the current performance and the performance of other lights on the market at a similar price point
@@pitchwayne could you provide some examples? Thanks👌
Just as big a question, why isn't the RDB available in other calibers, like 300blk...
Who is the guy with the gun wall?
Me.
I’m an unpaid shill for PSA, and I’m not ashamed. My buddies and I, drove from Pennsylvania down to South Carolina, just to go to all the PSA storefronts. I love PSA’s political agenda
Bump
And so many forget that you guys mostly deal with a sample size of 1. You might get a lemon, you might get a unicorn.
@Will-W not a sample size of one when you have a network of thousands of like-minded people on the same path sharing their own results.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary good point.
Wasn't meant as an insult just to be clear.
Sucks that you having bad luck with the AKs, I just got an off the shelf WASR from century like, 8 years ago, got an extended safety and replaced the shepards hook, changed all the furniture on it 3 times now and its been completely reliable throughout all that bull shit. Its been heavy and 4 MOA and kicks like a mule, but she has been my most reliable firearm, maybe 1 FTE every 1000 rounds or so, reliability really shines in high round count/dirty range days. In my current configuration for 50 yard drills its lighter than my AR pistol. Magpul triangle stock, cheese grater, TDI Mlok rail (with one empty rail section in case I do need to attach anything), iron sights. I can plink at 200 all day with the irons.
Really is a shame that low effort corporate hacks get more reach and compensation than individual content creators putting out valuable info/entertainment.
To make it worse, publicly accessible mainstream services like RUclips, Facebook, and Instagram gain profit from our efforts but limit our ability to be compensated for our work.
Watching the replay. Great discussion
Stop being poor. Buy everything. Create your own opinions. End of story.
@chap23305 or find a dependable group of like-minded people to share ideas with and learn from the mistakes of others.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary 100% 😂😂 by all admittance, I am a poor lolol
Oo, what are we talking about
For the algo 🤙
I believe psa is a far worse beast than freedom group and if they aren't? They're damn near close.
@@austinboston5643 why, specifically? I own no products built by either and view PSA as just another retailer and have spent minimal $$$ with them👌
Hey u guys should've invited 704 tactical!
Who?
@@PrimaryAndSecondaryhahahaha
I don't watch much youtube gun content compared to most. I learned about Brass and Hop through friends and learned about Focus through Hop and Brass.
@declineofthewest. I just looked 704 up. I don't associate subscriber count to validity or relevancy. I genuinely am not familiar with 704.
@@PrimaryAndSecondaryIt was a joke because he’s known for being a BIG shill for everyone
kinda hypocritical to talk about shilling when you have that many ads at rhe start of the video
So you are saying you don't understand what shilling means
@@PrimaryAndSecondary peddling random shit you dont use urself is close enough
Tell me which I don't use.
Why is hop anti-3d2a?
If I recall, and without speaking for him, the entry cost and required babysitting and "re-printing" costs as much or more as buying "the real thing".
He has a point, but he may be deliberately obfuscating "the' whole point" to begin with👌
Hop and I have the same watch. Have I been influenced? Oh no. Fingers crossed that I got it (Aug 2023) before him.
22:27 😆💯
Whos the guy in the sandles, i cant stand when someone says i hate calling people out then will describe who they are talking about but womt say a name. There is one guy who wears sandles and shoot very good and is also part of a business thats sells stuff made in china. If its Nolan just call him out on it. This generation calls people out more because thats how we werw rasied. If you have an issue say something dont run around it.
@@Mr.Bonez2Go agreed; low-energy position just alluding to someone👌
@hikeskool I like Hop and enjoy his content but it's just not a good look.
"3D printing at home" = cheap plastic manufacturing
There is very little serious use case for cheap plastic manufacturing.
It makes 0 sense to invest any time, energy, resources on anything related to that, when we have time tested and honed, professional METAL manufacturing equipment that we should focus on using instead.
We have a 3D2A episode getting planned out as we speak.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary Literally all of the benefits of 3d printing apply to machining at home, but machining at home is woman/child proof.
@MannElite I have a hammer, a file, and a dremel. I can do it all!
@@MannElite is “it’s fun” a reasonable use case?
@@hikeskool No!
@1:02:20 hop complains about PSA AR QC but thinks PSA AKs are representative of all AKs.
you might have a point there
@@PrimaryAndSecondary The idea that people were making up AK reliability for decades until hop finally cut through the smoke and mirrors by getting his hands on a PSA AK and exposing the long hidden truth that they are unreliable doesn't seem likely.
@@SpartanG062 psa aks don't represent aks
@@SpartanG062 Arsenal said hold my 🍺
Idk why Hop has a negative opinion on SOLGW while having no experience with them would like to hear more on why?
Because you're essentially paying a gunsmith to build with normal parts and qc the shit out of them.
You dont get to define and cherry pick what words mean. Shilling is advertising products. That's it. Whether it's right or wrong depends on how you approach it and talk about it. Shilling is necessary and provides information. All online personalities with a following do it. Stop being such drama quweens about it.
Sounds like you don't know the definition of shill. Go look it up.
Just sounds like a bunch of high school girls complaining
*high school boys
21:15 “Better Help” comes to mind. Definitely credibility laundering.
That might be the worst one. They got called out back 6+ years ago when the ads first popped up. Everyone forgot I guess and now its everywhere.
Further proof that shrinks are gay.
funny i just gave this channel a go and the first 10 minutes is ads.
@@Manhattan_project.420 2 minutes and 45 seconds of opening ads doesn't equate to shilling.
Since they are in the actual video, and I can't hit skip. I just fast forward instead.
@@noticer3721 whats you point agaisnt shilling again?