In Buffy, the story is about reaching adulthood, and overcoming the trials of adolescence. In Angel, it’s about already being an adult. Everyone on Angel has something they want to atone for, like Angel’s deeds as Angelus, Cordy’s cruelty during highschool, Doyle’s abandonment of his people to leave to slaughter, and Wesley for his failings as a Watcher. It’s about finding meaning to live in a meaningless world, and doing the best you can with the time you have to make up for your failings in your youth, as you push forward through a meaningless existence.
Please take note that even though Wesley is played for laughs, the demons are _genuinely_ frightened of him. He’s actually _very effective_ at what he does. It’s just that he has a desperate need to impress other people, which causes his confidence to shatter. He’s actually incredibly capable.
My headcanon is that those demon’s claim to be pure demon was a very human sort of BS. At the end of Buffy s3, Anya told us that pure demons are different: “For one thing they are bigger”
The Uniforms they are wearing is no accident. They are 'pure demons' the same way nazi's are 'ideal humans'. It's a lie they convinced themself to belive, so they have a excuse to look down on others.
Uh-oh! Doyle is a hero. Rest in Peace Glenn Quinn and Doyle. It's so sad that he is gone from Angel and IRL.💔😔 WESLEY is here! Is he a badass? Or just a bad ass. 😂 I like that we get him after losing Doyle but I wish we could have had Doyle for the whole season at least. 9 episodes is too little. 😭
Doyle always remembered even though he departed the show so early. Only thing is we get a great following episode here for Buffyverse Fans. What was brilliant about Angel as a show is how was able to develop the characters from BTVS that were maybe one dimensional. Angel, Cordelia and Wesley make that transition into the new show with ease, and it was great how these three worked so well after the premature loss of Doyle. Wesley is a brilliant addition to the show. Great comedy again when Cordelia kisses Wesley again, and he says 'I think it went considerably better than last time' Great writing. I don't care what anyone says Wesley becomes my favourite character in The Entire Buffyverse.
The story of Doyle and his actor is so tragic. Poor Glenn Quinn was suffering from an addiction, and it became problematic for production. They didn't *want* to let him go, but they had to because it was getting too difficult to film with his problems. Three years later, he was found dead at a friend's house from an overdose. :(
I think Wesley was a fitting addition to the cast after losing Doyle. Whoever joined, we'd be holding a mirror on the character on how they differ from Doyle. With Wesley, an already established character, he has existing qualities and we have no expectations on him simply replacing Doyle but finding a spot with the cast of characters.
Two heartbreakers on the bounce after I Will Remember You, and you thought episode 8 was sad! Doyle became so popular with the fans this was a hammer blow, especially as Cordelia really wanted him now the writers are so cruel. Such a shame for Glen Quinn in his personal life too leading to an ultimate tragedy so sad. The episode was brilliant in its own right The Scourge obviously mirroring the Nazis with their uniforms and racial purity cult. A great, but sad ending for the fans, the video so sad at the end. Angel was such a brilliant show, watching it the time this episode actually went out we were in a state of pure shock and didn't believe it. Doyle always remembered by Buffyverse fans.
Kind of feel like they were telling the truth when they said they planned to write him off since joss loved that "oh these characters are happy in love? Let's destroy that" trope. He fucking returns to it all the time. By this point it's not even a spoiler
Doyle was killed off because actor Glenn Quinn was struggling with a drug addiction that was becoming problematic to the show's production, so they were forced to write him off the show. Quinn would later die of an overdose, so Doyle is sadly never returning. I didn't want you guys to hold onto false hope that he'll come back later on.
@@RLucas3000It was an IRL tragedy. That trumps TV spoilers. And like I said, I didn't want them to hold onto false expectations that have no possibility of ever being fulfilled due to someone's real-life tragic death. It's like watching The Crow and leaving them constantly in the dark about why Brandon Lee never shows up in the sequels. In such an instance, it's better that they know. Imagine that they get to Season 5 and they're still anticipating Doyle's return. Informing them now helps them avoid appearing clueless and insensitive later.
The difference between "Angel" and "Buffy" to me is that "Angel" actually feels like an ensemble show, even though it's based on Angel. "Buffy" is very focused on Buffy and her experiences while the other characters get their "day in the sun" episodes here and there. Obviously, "Angel" allows for the other characters to grow and develop more evenly.
Agreed. Buffy is about Buffy’s emotional journey of growth to becoming an adult, with her friends/other characters as vehicles to drive her growth. Angel is about adults who have to make the best of the time they have, and to redeem themselves of the mistakes of their youth. They’re generally already “grown up” and each have to deal with how to navigate life and find meaning in a meaningless world.
Glenn Quinn was a known addict. Roseanne fired the actor because of it. Glenn was let go from Angel because he was addicted to Heroin. He died of a Heroin overdose in 2002.
Hero: At the time, Joss claimed killing Doyle was the plan all along. It wasn't. He was given multiple chances, but his addiction chose drugs over the show. At least one of the people who fired him was a recovering addict/alcoholic, the decision wasn't easy. David Boreanaz had become very close with him. I was just upset that they decided to cut him out of the gag reel. When Glenn was sober, he was fantastic. When he wasn't, he wasn't. The first Friday of filming of the next episode, was the first Friday of the season to start before noon. The crew literally cheered. The first mate, who is the first person to get killed by the giant Christmas ornament, was Glenn's stand-in. So they killed Doyle and the Doyle stand-in. He bought lifts and was able to remain on the crew as a stand-in. For the on set crew Christmas party, a crane held that Christmas ornament up as the star on top of the on set tree. "Is that it? Am I done?" He knew he was when he said that. I never really knew him myself. But I was on set for both his good and bad days, and it was truly like two different people. I felt that the NAZI stuff was too on the nose. Parting Gifts: "I'm a rogue demon hunter." "What's a rogue demon?" Faith is in a coma. She is not dead. Ok. That was cleared up by Wes. Angel can see in the dark. I was very against bringing in Wesley as I felt his energy was completely out of step from the show. I've rarely been happier to be wrong. I learned that Alexis is a really great guy. This shouldn't be read into as I didn't say how long Wes is around for or how and when I was proven wrong.
13:55 - "Even the clothing is very Nazi." I had a friend who once compared the Scourge's uniforms to a cross between Nazis and Tom of Finland. I howled and can never unsee it.
It’s so sad that we lost Doyle on the show, and that we lost Glenn Quinn in real life. I really liked his character, and it would’ve been cool to see where they ran with him. RIP Glenn Quinn ❤
Great "Angel" episode reactions you two! 😊 RIP Glenn Quinn(Doyle)! These are two really good episodes! Episode 1x09: Doyle was a hero in the end. Two scenes from this episode always hit me the hardest: Before he sacrifices himself Doyle shows Cordy his demon face and says "Too bad we'll never know if this is a face you could learn to love". And then Doyle's final line "Is that it? Am I done?". Episode 1x10: We lost Doyle in the previous episode. But now enter Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, Rouge Demon Hunter. Love seeing Wesley back. Looking forward to the next episode reactions. 😊
Cordelia’s opening narration 😂 “You know he’s only happy when he’s fighting evil.” 😂 Doyle trying to film the ad 💀 Nonprofit brooding. Cordelia is peak comedy! Such a sad story this ep. Love learning more about Doyle. Undercover Angel. The demon cat’s out of the bag about Doyle. Cordy accepting Doyle. Cordy/Doyle kiss! 🖤 Doyle choosing to be a hero. Learning from Angel. Finally getting a chance with Cordelia then sacrificing himself for the greater good. I can’t 😭 Cordelia’s audition. Her having visions! Empath demon. Cordy kissing Angel & Barney 😂 Wesley? Rogue demon hunter. Barney with the double cross. Yes Cordelia with final girl energy. “Nothing’s gonna happen to Cordelia. I won’t allow it” 🖤 Cordelia upping the bid 😂 Not the law firm winning the bid. The auction house brawl 🙌🏼 Framing her first vision drawing to remember Doyle by 😭💚 What a tense few episodes. Still loving this show. Not a single bad episode. Amazing reactions as always guys 🖤
"You're a terrible actress." "How could you possibly know?" "Because _you_ know." ...In that fake advert in episode 9, the one that was revealed to be Cordelia's imagination, she still can't act. It was probably just a gag and I'm overthinking it, but it lines up well.
Like we did back when Angel premiered, you have effectively made the transition to Angel. Not often mentioned is the confidence mixed with talent that made Angel a different show knowingly and realistically. Angel and Cordelia are the same but you can see the slight differences starting . The storytelling is similar but is becoming unlike Buffy. It sounds easy but the challenge was to maintain the bulk of the Buffy audience( Angel aired after Buffy on Tuesdays), have the show stand on its own and not be the second hour of Buffy, and recruit and retain an audience that was not tied to Buffy but was the 14-29 target market. They succeeded and it is a master class in production vision, writing implementation, and not compromising artistic vision to the financial interests of the network.
I honestly forgot the Doyle episode was this early in the season. In my head, i thought it was a season finale. But maybe during the original run, it was the last episode before their mid-season break or something. But definitely a sad moment. Even sadder knowing the real life reasons they wrote him off the show. And I'm not sure if you guys knew this, but Glenn Quinn was also on the 90s sitcom, Roseanne, before this. He played Mark, Roseanne's son in law.
its so sad about doyle. he was a great character with a lot they could have done with him. but at least he got a hero ending. its really sad that the actor was unable to beat his drug addiction. not only did he get let go from angel but he died a few years later. i grew up watching him on roseanne, he was far too young to die.
Yes, unfortunately there was drama. Glenn Quinn would show up four hours late to shootings. Or not at all. Or drunk. Or high. He had to be let go halfway through the season, but that wasn't the inital plan. Sadly, he died of overdose a couple of years later.
Joss stated that he didn't know how to write for Doyle and the character didn't mesh well with the show overall. His addiciton played no part in him being let go from the show.
I know the show did what they felt since the Actor was struggling but I can’t help but think losing such a big show would have added on to that affect .. rip Doyle ❤️.
I cried so hard I gave myself a migraine over this. Knowing the actor who played Doyle died from his addiction problems not long after this didn't help at all. At least it wasn't Joss intentionally making people cry this time. Still a heartbreaker though. Apparently, the other actors were pretty torn up over it too.
26:25 should be a Reaction gif .. it’s hilarious!!! Ngl , To me Angel is not a show that gets very interesting till like S4 , but re-watching it with y’all makes it worthy. Glad i started these journeys with you. (Buffy, Charmed,Angel) Hugs from Peru!.
18:28 Not the Drag Race Tragedy Mirror! “So, Vivacious, how was it like growing up in Jamaica?” “Oh Mama! It was terrible! They tried to drown me in the ocean!” _”…oh nooo - that’s so awful. 💅”_ … “Now sashay away.”
In the back of his head, Joss ALWAYS wanted to kill off a prominent cast member. Originally, Jesse was going to be in the opening credits of Buffy to demonstrate even main characters can die. But it was too costly. Doyle was also supposedly supposed to die, but as said before the actor's problems rushed the process.
It's good to jump right into the next episode after Doyle's departure. A watcher type is always needed when fighting demons. There's only so much believable with the regular group members being able to look up demons and whatnot in the old books. One thing about this show is that you don't have to wait until the end of the season for hard-hitting episodes.
"This is not a British TV show, you can't do this to us!" 🤣 Unfortunately Glenn Quinn (who played Doyle) proved to be unreliable due to his drug addiction. He sadly died three years after his time on Angel due to a drug overdose at the age of 32. 😢 Slayers are only girls. "In every generation there is a Chosen One. She alone will stand against the vampires, the demons and the forces of darkness. She is the Slayer."
I'd compare the scourge as more like *azis, particularly the SS Unfortunately the actor who played Doyle died in real life too :( But according to Joss, he wasn't an easy character to write, which I think is BS. But that's his excuse for writing him out.
Side note: Those Demons are the same ones in Buffy Season 3 ep 1. They were the ones that were kidnapping people into the hell dimension. I guess we now know what they were working on in that dimension.
Cody & Siergio, sadly Glenn Quinn who played Francis Allen Doyle died of a heroin overdose in 2002 at the age of 32. You may remember Glenn from his role of Becky Conners husband, Mark Healy in seven seasons ( 74 episodes ) of "Rosanne". Rumors say he was killed off of "Angel" as his real-life addiction issues were making it impossible to keep him as part of the cast.
The first time I tried to watch Angel, this is where I stopped. He wasn't around that long, but Doyle had become my favorite character (also he's a cutie) so I was gutted when he died. Replacing him with Wesley (originally one of my most hated Buffy characters) felt like a slap in the face. I did try watching Angel a second time and was glad I pushed through and finished it but these two episodes are still rough.
People will argue that Doyle's passing was due to the actor's personal issues, and that's not to say that he didn't have personal issues and that they didn't prevented him from staying longer (like Spike, for example, who was supposed to bite it in School Hard) but its pretty evident, especially when you look back at Season 3 of Buffy, that this spinoff was always intended to be about Angel, Cordy, and Wesley. The visions and the passing of those visions were never an afterthought. I'm not here to start an argument, just saying, it seemed pretty evident.
At least I'm not the only one that bought "the cover story". That moment in Buffy season 3's Graduation Day when Angel and Wesley were fighting side by side (before Wesley quickly gets knocked to the ground) clearly was a sneak peek at the spinoff plan that they always had in mind. You can't tell me bringing Wesley in was a quick and sudden replacement for Doyle.
@@s.c.sanchez1610Wesley was apparently indeed planned to join the cast, but not to replace Doyle. That’s why for the rest of the season, three “background” for Wesley’s title card is Doyle’s. Wesley would get his own unique character background in season 2, I believe.
@@arc7375 With all due respect, Doyle was introduced as "Exposition Guy", being the character who knew about Angel's back story, who knew about Buffy, what the Gem of Amara was simply by looking at it, etc. What sense would it have made to bring in an educated ex-Watcher along side a character like that?
@@s.c.sanchez1610 The character of Doyle was created originally as Whistler, but the actor was unavailable, so the part was re-written. I have no clue what the thought behind adding Wesley would have been. He’s nowhere near as superfluous and unnecessary as other future main cast members. I assume they just wanted to add more people to the cast that had a crucial moment in their life that they failed at. Just padding the cast out. Much like how Buffy only had Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles. Then subsequently added Angel, Spike, Anya, etc.
I am under the thought that this episode will never play the way it did the first time one watches it. I choke up at Cordy asking Doyle to film now. Foreknowledge of certain episodes forever changes the thought process on the episode. Here we have two in a row, that when you know... unfortunately you know... Banger of an episodes. I have to admit, after Herb Saunders from Baltimore, Angel was my favorite of the two shows. No shade to Buffy... Buffy is the greatest written, acted, conceptualized show of all time in my humble opinion. This show just hits differently for a dude like me. But this stretch of episodes had me "all in".
That part that they film where he says, "Is that it? Am I done?" All it takes to make me tear up.
Gut wrenching!
Geez, I watched this show half a dozen times at least and that still makes me tear up.
"This is not a British TV show, you can't do this to us!"
*Laughs in British*
I first watched Angel a decade ago and I could've sworn Doyle was in far more episodes. His character made such an impact on the entire series
In Buffy, the story is about reaching adulthood, and overcoming the trials of adolescence.
In Angel, it’s about already being an adult. Everyone on Angel has something they want to atone for, like Angel’s deeds as Angelus, Cordy’s cruelty during highschool, Doyle’s abandonment of his people to leave to slaughter, and Wesley for his failings as a Watcher.
It’s about finding meaning to live in a meaningless world, and doing the best you can with the time you have to make up for your failings in your youth, as you push forward through a meaningless existence.
Please take note that even though Wesley is played for laughs, the demons are _genuinely_ frightened of him.
He’s actually _very effective_ at what he does. It’s just that he has a desperate need to impress other people, which causes his confidence to shatter. He’s actually incredibly capable.
My headcanon is that those demon’s claim to be pure demon was a very human sort of BS. At the end of Buffy s3, Anya told us that pure demons are different: “For one thing they are bigger”
Yeah, I think that was part of the irony.
The Uniforms they are wearing is no accident.
They are 'pure demons' the same way nazi's are 'ideal humans'. It's a lie they convinced themself to belive, so they have a excuse to look down on others.
I was thinking the same thing.
Uh-oh! Doyle is a hero. Rest in Peace Glenn Quinn and Doyle. It's so sad that he is gone from Angel and IRL.💔😔
WESLEY is here! Is he a badass? Or just a bad ass. 😂 I like that we get him after losing Doyle but I wish we could have had Doyle for the whole season at least. 9 episodes is too little. 😭
Doyle always remembered even though he departed the show so early. Only thing is we get a great following episode here for Buffyverse Fans. What was brilliant about Angel as a show is how was able to develop the characters from BTVS that were maybe one dimensional. Angel, Cordelia and Wesley make that transition into the new show with ease, and it was great how these three worked so well after the premature loss of Doyle. Wesley is a brilliant addition to the show. Great comedy again when Cordelia kisses Wesley again, and he says 'I think it went considerably better than last time' Great writing. I don't care what anyone says Wesley becomes my favourite character in The Entire Buffyverse.
RIP Glenn Quinn I loved him on Roseanne too thats where i first saw this actor
The story of Doyle and his actor is so tragic. Poor Glenn Quinn was suffering from an addiction, and it became problematic for production. They didn't *want* to let him go, but they had to because it was getting too difficult to film with his problems. Three years later, he was found dead at a friend's house from an overdose. :(
I think Wesley was a fitting addition to the cast after losing Doyle. Whoever joined, we'd be holding a mirror on the character on how they differ from Doyle. With Wesley, an already established character, he has existing qualities and we have no expectations on him simply replacing Doyle but finding a spot with the cast of characters.
RIP Glenn Quinn 😥🙏 this episode still chokes me up, both for Doyle's character and actor himself.. had so much potential :(
Two heartbreakers on the bounce after I Will Remember You, and you thought episode 8 was sad! Doyle became so popular with the fans this was a hammer blow, especially as Cordelia really wanted him now the writers are so cruel. Such a shame for Glen Quinn in his personal life too leading to an ultimate tragedy so sad. The episode was brilliant in its own right The Scourge obviously mirroring the Nazis with their uniforms and racial purity cult. A great, but sad ending for the fans, the video so sad at the end. Angel was such a brilliant show, watching it the time this episode actually went out we were in a state of pure shock and didn't believe it. Doyle always remembered by Buffyverse fans.
Kind of feel like they were telling the truth when they said they planned to write him off since joss loved that "oh these characters are happy in love? Let's destroy that" trope. He fucking returns to it all the time. By this point it's not even a spoiler
Doyle was killed off because actor Glenn Quinn was struggling with a drug addiction that was becoming problematic to the show's production, so they were forced to write him off the show. Quinn would later die of an overdose, so Doyle is sadly never returning. I didn't want you guys to hold onto false hope that he'll come back later on.
That’s a huge spoiler
@@RLucas3000It was an IRL tragedy. That trumps TV spoilers. And like I said, I didn't want them to hold onto false expectations that have no possibility of ever being fulfilled due to someone's real-life tragic death. It's like watching The Crow and leaving them constantly in the dark about why Brandon Lee never shows up in the sequels. In such an instance, it's better that they know. Imagine that they get to Season 5 and they're still anticipating Doyle's return. Informing them now helps them avoid appearing clueless and insensitive later.
@@RLucas3000how?
It’s not a spoiler as it does not impact the show’s story line going forward.
@@RLucas3000that’s how I experienced IRL at the time. Not a spoiler. Reality
Losing Doyle BROKE me! It still hurts rewatching it all these years later.
Not my mind going to Hey Arnold when Angel called him Football Head. 😂😂😂
Wow, same here! I just heard Helga's voice saying "Move it, Football Head!" 😂
Same!
Me too! Always.
@@RedundantHuman-CandyBites the joys of being a 90s kid. 😂 we have the most weirdest, random things we seem to associate life with. 😂
@@TheSoulwriter88 RIGHT!!! Who knew the 90’s would be so eclectic as it’s turned out to be. 😆 haha 🥰
The difference between "Angel" and "Buffy" to me is that "Angel" actually feels like an ensemble show, even though it's based on Angel. "Buffy" is very focused on Buffy and her experiences while the other characters get their "day in the sun" episodes here and there. Obviously, "Angel" allows for the other characters to grow and develop more evenly.
Agreed. Buffy is about Buffy’s emotional journey of growth to becoming an adult, with her friends/other characters as vehicles to drive her growth.
Angel is about adults who have to make the best of the time they have, and to redeem themselves of the mistakes of their youth. They’re generally already “grown up” and each have to deal with how to navigate life and find meaning in a meaningless world.
😭 I watched the original airing, my friends and I were devastated
Glenn Quinn was a known addict. Roseanne fired the actor because of it. Glenn was let go from Angel because he was addicted to Heroin. He died of a Heroin overdose in 2002.
RIP Glenn Quinn, he was so good as Doyle.
Hero: At the time, Joss claimed killing Doyle was the plan all along. It wasn't. He was given multiple chances, but his addiction chose drugs over the show. At least one of the people who fired him was a recovering addict/alcoholic, the decision wasn't easy. David Boreanaz had become very close with him. I was just upset that they decided to cut him out of the gag reel.
When Glenn was sober, he was fantastic. When he wasn't, he wasn't. The first Friday of filming of the next episode, was the first Friday of the season to start before noon. The crew literally cheered.
The first mate, who is the first person to get killed by the giant Christmas ornament, was Glenn's stand-in. So they killed Doyle and the Doyle stand-in. He bought lifts and was able to remain on the crew as a stand-in. For the on set crew Christmas party, a crane held that Christmas ornament up as the star on top of the on set tree.
"Is that it? Am I done?" He knew he was when he said that. I never really knew him myself. But I was on set for both his good and bad days, and it was truly like two different people.
I felt that the NAZI stuff was too on the nose.
Parting Gifts: "I'm a rogue demon hunter." "What's a rogue demon?"
Faith is in a coma. She is not dead. Ok. That was cleared up by Wes.
Angel can see in the dark.
I was very against bringing in Wesley as I felt his energy was completely out of step from the show. I've rarely been happier to be wrong. I learned that Alexis is a really great guy. This shouldn't be read into as I didn't say how long Wes is around for or how and when I was proven wrong.
13:55 - "Even the clothing is very Nazi." I had a friend who once compared the Scourge's uniforms to a cross between Nazis and Tom of Finland. I howled and can never unsee it.
I really loved Doyle and Glenn. He was so charismatic. The episode is even sadder knowing Glenn died few years later 😔
David and Glenn were friends
It’s so sad that we lost Doyle on the show, and that we lost Glenn Quinn in real life. I really liked his character, and it would’ve been cool to see where they ran with him. RIP Glenn Quinn ❤
Oh God.. Ive been dreading your watch of ‘Hero’. I have seen it a thousand times and I still cant keep it together.🥺🥺
Doyle😭😭😭 but then Wesley ❤❤❤❤
Pretty amazing how much we can fall in love with a character in such a short amount of time. RIP Doyle
Great "Angel" episode reactions you two! 😊
RIP Glenn Quinn(Doyle)!
These are two really good episodes!
Episode 1x09: Doyle was a hero in the end. Two scenes from this episode always hit me the hardest: Before he sacrifices himself Doyle shows Cordy his demon face and says "Too bad we'll never know if this is a face you could learn to love". And then Doyle's final line "Is that it? Am I done?".
Episode 1x10: We lost Doyle in the previous episode. But now enter Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, Rouge Demon Hunter. Love seeing Wesley back.
Looking forward to the next episode reactions. 😊
Cordelia’s opening narration 😂 “You know he’s only happy when he’s fighting evil.” 😂 Doyle trying to film the ad 💀 Nonprofit brooding. Cordelia is peak comedy! Such a sad story this ep. Love learning more about Doyle. Undercover Angel. The demon cat’s out of the bag about Doyle. Cordy accepting Doyle. Cordy/Doyle kiss! 🖤 Doyle choosing to be a hero. Learning from Angel. Finally getting a chance with Cordelia then sacrificing himself for the greater good. I can’t 😭
Cordelia’s audition. Her having visions! Empath demon. Cordy kissing Angel & Barney 😂 Wesley? Rogue demon hunter. Barney with the double cross. Yes Cordelia with final girl energy. “Nothing’s gonna happen to Cordelia. I won’t allow it” 🖤 Cordelia upping the bid 😂 Not the law firm winning the bid. The auction house brawl 🙌🏼 Framing her first vision drawing to remember Doyle by 😭💚 What a tense few episodes. Still loving this show. Not a single bad episode. Amazing reactions as always guys 🖤
I really like Doyle, but I will say that this is the start of the Angel the series i love
"You're a terrible actress."
"How could you possibly know?"
"Because _you_ know."
...In that fake advert in episode 9, the one that was revealed to be Cordelia's imagination, she still can't act. It was probably just a gag and I'm overthinking it, but it lines up well.
Like we did back when Angel premiered, you have effectively made the transition to Angel. Not often mentioned is the confidence mixed with talent that made Angel a different show knowingly and realistically. Angel and Cordelia are the same but you can see the slight differences starting . The storytelling is similar but is becoming unlike Buffy. It sounds easy but the challenge was to maintain the bulk of the Buffy audience( Angel aired after Buffy on Tuesdays), have the show stand on its own and not be the second hour of Buffy, and recruit and retain an audience that was not tied to Buffy but was the 14-29 target market. They succeeded and it is a master class in production vision, writing implementation, and not compromising artistic vision to the financial interests of the network.
Was really anticipating your reaction to Wesley’s (re)introduction and you did not disappoint.
I honestly forgot the Doyle episode was this early in the season. In my head, i thought it was a season finale. But maybe during the original run, it was the last episode before their mid-season break or something. But definitely a sad moment. Even sadder knowing the real life reasons they wrote him off the show. And I'm not sure if you guys knew this, but Glenn Quinn was also on the 90s sitcom, Roseanne, before this. He played Mark, Roseanne's son in law.
its so sad about doyle. he was a great character with a lot they could have done with him. but at least he got a hero ending. its really sad that the actor was unable to beat his drug addiction. not only did he get let go from angel but he died a few years later. i grew up watching him on roseanne, he was far too young to die.
Yes, unfortunately there was drama.
Glenn Quinn would show up four hours late to shootings. Or not at all.
Or drunk. Or high.
He had to be let go halfway through the season, but that wasn't the inital plan.
Sadly, he died of overdose a couple of years later.
Sadly, Glenn Quinn died of a heroin overdose in 2002. (I believe his personal issues were why he was released from Angel.) RIP Glenn. ❣
Joss stated that he didn't know how to write for Doyle and the character didn't mesh well with the show overall. His addiciton played no part in him being let go from the show.
@@Cody92 If that's true, it's one of Whedon's worst choices in the Buffyverse.
@@Cody92This was confirmed to be untrue. And one of the cover stories.
@@Cody92 There's this thing called "damage control" that you do when you don't want your show to tank. Joss did damage control.
@@Cody92 that was definitely a cover story.
Every single time I return to Season 1 of Angel, episode 9 shakes me, because I keep thinking it's the season finale and I'm never ready for it
I know the show did what they felt since the Actor was struggling but I can’t help but think losing such a big show would have added on to that affect .. rip Doyle ❤️.
Unfortunately Glenn Quinn passed from addiction not long after the episode. Devastating to lose Doyle even though we only had him for 9 episodes.
Doyle's death episode aired on Nov 30, 1999 ( this one aired Dec 14, 1999 )
and Glenn Quinn died 3 years later on Dec 3, 2002.
I was so sad after Doyle that it took me years to try and watch Angel again 😢
I cried so hard I gave myself a migraine over this. Knowing the actor who played Doyle died from his addiction problems not long after this didn't help at all. At least it wasn't Joss intentionally making people cry this time. Still a heartbreaker though. Apparently, the other actors were pretty torn up over it too.
The loss of Doyle still is so sad, it definitely felt like we knew him for a longer time. However, Wesley is a fine addition to the show.
26:25 should be a Reaction gif .. it’s hilarious!!!
Ngl , To me Angel is not a show that gets very interesting till like S4 , but re-watching it with y’all makes it worthy.
Glad i started these journeys with you.
(Buffy, Charmed,Angel)
Hugs from Peru!.
18:28 Not the Drag Race Tragedy Mirror!
“So, Vivacious, how was it like growing up in Jamaica?”
“Oh Mama! It was terrible! They tried to drown me in the ocean!”
_”…oh nooo - that’s so awful. 💅”_
…
“Now sashay away.”
I just started watching and I'm already tearing up.
In episodes 8 and 9 this series mercilessly takes a baseball bat to your balls. I've never seen a 2 episode run like it.
In the back of his head, Joss ALWAYS wanted to kill off a prominent cast member. Originally, Jesse was going to be in the opening credits of Buffy to demonstrate even main characters can die. But it was too costly. Doyle was also supposedly supposed to die, but as said before the actor's problems rushed the process.
9:33 "Some are very, very evil, and some have been considered to be useful members of society." But you haven't seen this episode of Buffy yet ;)
Loved Doyle, loved glenn quinn, cheers y'all
Unfortunately the actor who played Doyle struggled with addiction in real life and that’s why he was let go
29:12 Thank you for reminding me. I almost messed up my Duolingo streak.
24:45 Cody forgetting Faith is in a coma sends me 😂
He probably hoped she died 😂
Oh Wesley, lol, if you two only knew....
i second that
@@jamesbond99 lie to me....
@@criss_xWrong character. Wrong show. :P
@@arc7375 No it actually works for both and it was intended.
RIP Glenn Quinn
It's good to jump right into the next episode after Doyle's departure. A watcher type is always needed when fighting demons. There's only so much believable with the regular group members being able to look up demons and whatnot in the old books. One thing about this show is that you don't have to wait until the end of the season for hard-hitting episodes.
Love The Dark Avenger/s lol
Our Rats are low ( 😭 everytime), but i do love Wesley also, so when one door closes another can open❤
RIP Doyle & Welcome Wesley
Anyone else think the scurge look like the demons from season 3 anne
Sturge??? If you want to know how I sounded when I said that, think ‘sed-a-give’ from Young Frankenstein.
"This is not a British TV show, you can't do this to us!" 🤣
Unfortunately Glenn Quinn (who played Doyle) proved to be unreliable due to his drug addiction. He sadly died three years after his time on Angel due to a drug overdose at the age of 32. 😢
Slayers are only girls. "In every generation there is a Chosen One. She alone will stand against the vampires, the demons and the forces of darkness. She is the Slayer."
Baby Wesley! Ok, sorry maybe that's a bit of a spoiler, but I love reminiscing about characters in the first season of a show.
I'd compare the scourge as more like *azis, particularly the SS
Unfortunately the actor who played Doyle died in real life too :(
But according to Joss, he wasn't an easy character to write, which I think is BS. But that's his excuse for writing him out.
Actor passed away. Love Doyle!
Oh c'mon man, I didn't wanna cry today :(
So why watch a Buffy or Angel episode? The forecast is almost _always_ for tragedy.
@@arc7375 Good point. But this one feels particularly sad for me. :(
@@luhguren It’s _horribly_ sad, absolutely. :(
Tbh the designs of the baddies in ep 9 remind me of cenobites
RIP Doyle
The Scourge stuff is an obvious bit of N@zi imagery (as were the death eaters- possibly even more heavily handed).
This show is 100% better than anything you're watching now guys.
Side note: Those Demons are the same ones in Buffy Season 3 ep 1. They were the ones that were kidnapping people into the hell dimension. I guess we now know what they were working on in that dimension.
Don't worry, not the last you'll see of Barney, so to speak.
6:51 well....
14:48 HEY. ARNOLD.
I feel like Wesley was part of The Watchers due to nepotism.
First soldier down ....😢
Doyle 💔 😢
All this time, we had to not tell you what was going to happen to Doyle :(
This is completely a Whedon trope, to mislead you like that
Cody & Siergio, sadly Glenn Quinn who played Francis Allen Doyle died of a heroin overdose in 2002 at the age of 32.
You may remember Glenn from his role of Becky Conners husband, Mark Healy in seven seasons ( 74 episodes ) of "Rosanne".
Rumors say he was killed off of "Angel" as his real-life addiction issues were making it impossible to keep him as part of the cast.
The first time I tried to watch Angel, this is where I stopped. He wasn't around that long, but Doyle had become my favorite character (also he's a cutie) so I was gutted when he died. Replacing him with Wesley (originally one of my most hated Buffy characters) felt like a slap in the face. I did try watching Angel a second time and was glad I pushed through and finished it but these two episodes are still rough.
People will argue that Doyle's passing was due to the actor's personal issues, and that's not to say that he didn't have personal issues and that they didn't prevented him from staying longer (like Spike, for example, who was supposed to bite it in School Hard) but its pretty evident, especially when you look back at Season 3 of Buffy, that this spinoff was always intended to be about Angel, Cordy, and Wesley. The visions and the passing of those visions were never an afterthought. I'm not here to start an argument, just saying, it seemed pretty evident.
Wesley is my 3rd favorite Buffyverse character ❤️ and next episode is one of my favorites and we get a guest star ⭐️
The actor playing Doyle had a terrible drug problem and was let go from the show.
When is charmed next two coming up please
They come out every Saturday
@@thehorrorbandwagon thank you
@@thehorrorbandwagon love y’all’s RUclips page shared y’all’s page with my sister
ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE
Let's go with Nazis rather than Death Eaters. A, it's slightly more accurate, and B, the Harry Potter author is still a militant TERF.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
According to the show runners Doyle's character was always meant to die off, bt Glenn Quinns drug addiction definitely didn't help things I'm sure.
I think they later confirmed “Doyle was written to die off” was their cover story.
At least I'm not the only one that bought "the cover story". That moment in Buffy season 3's Graduation Day when Angel and Wesley were fighting side by side (before Wesley quickly gets knocked to the ground) clearly was a sneak peek at the spinoff plan that they always had in mind. You can't tell me bringing Wesley in was a quick and sudden replacement for Doyle.
@@s.c.sanchez1610Wesley was apparently indeed planned to join the cast, but not to replace Doyle. That’s why for the rest of the season, three “background” for Wesley’s title card is Doyle’s. Wesley would get his own unique character background in season 2, I believe.
@@arc7375 With all due respect, Doyle was introduced as "Exposition Guy", being the character who knew about Angel's back story, who knew about Buffy, what the Gem of Amara was simply by looking at it, etc. What sense would it have made to bring in an educated ex-Watcher along side a character like that?
@@s.c.sanchez1610 The character of Doyle was created originally as Whistler, but the actor was unavailable, so the part was re-written.
I have no clue what the thought behind adding Wesley would have been. He’s nowhere near as superfluous and unnecessary as other future main cast members. I assume they just wanted to add more people to the cast that had a crucial moment in their life that they failed at. Just padding the cast out. Much like how Buffy only had Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles. Then subsequently added Angel, Spike, Anya, etc.
I am under the thought that this episode will never play the way it did the first time one watches it. I choke up at Cordy asking Doyle to film now.
Foreknowledge of certain episodes forever changes the thought process on the episode. Here we have two in a row, that when you know... unfortunately you know...
Banger of an episodes. I have to admit, after Herb Saunders from Baltimore, Angel was my favorite of the two shows.
No shade to Buffy... Buffy is the greatest written, acted, conceptualized show of all time in my humble opinion. This show just hits differently for a dude like me. But this stretch of episodes had me "all in".
Oh God.. Ive been dreading your watch of ‘Hero’. I have seen it a thousand times and I still cant keep it together.🥺🥺
RIP Glenn Quinn