Oh dear, what a mistake to make! Let’s use a duplex timing chain then compromise it by hanging an unshielded ball bearing over it that obviously only gets splash lubrication. Never heard of this issue before and have been around Merc diesels forty years now. Every day is a school day! Thanks Pierre.
Had that happen to a w124 200D 1992, bought the car from a widow, stood for 4 years, car was 9 years old at the time and only had 24k km on the clock. Went through the car before putting it back on the road and the bearing in the pump failed after 2 days... skipped the chain and broke a timing cover. Luckily that was all the damage and was repairable. After that the car was sold and still in possession of the same owner and now at well over 500k km.
Help Pierre, I live in Melbourne Australia. Unleaded petrol was put into my 2012 E220 CDI diesel and driven almost 2 kms before it spluttered and was turned off. The car has been meticulously serviced every year and has travelled 112,000kms. I’ll have it towed to the mechanics in the morning but in your experience, do you think this has totalled the car please? Hope I hear back and thanks for your excellent and useful Videos. You have legendary status amongst the Australian MB community. Best wishes, Christopher
I'd say the fatal flaw on the om617's is the fuel filter Primer pump location "leaking" and a rubber motor mount below it, then the oil cooler line forward and the power steering pump pulley! Engine Flex and game over!
Thanks! Get some rest, man. If I was 40 years younger, I'd really try to work for you in any capacity. I've worked for guys like you over my career and I use what I've learned everyday.
When replacing my oil pan I found some ball bearings and other shrapnel that I assume came from a previous vacuum pump before I owned it. Guess I got lucky cos the car seems fine (?) 85 300TD. Would love to see more on how to identify good used pumps and or how to rebuild.
OR! You could do what I did on my 606 and delete the vacuum pump 😁. Just need to install a vacuum reservoir, an electric pump, a vacuum switch, and do the plumbing. Works great, just make sure you don't have vacuum leaks. I used a GM part from a turbo vehicle. I posted it on the forums somewhere and got a fair amount of hate for it 🤣
if he doesn't mention it then it doesn't apply.. i'm sure the 617 has this issue due to the engine being built different compared to the 616 engine... theres a reason why pierre loves the 240D so much haha
Yep, happened to my '95 E300D. I did fix it, what surprised me is how the exhaust cam sprocket slipped on the cam. Had to have the front cover crack welded too. The valve job was the easy part.
I have a spare Pierberg vac pump from the pick n pull yard. Bearing looks updated, and there is a Mercedes 3 star logo and an MB part number stamped on the case. Did Pierberg use OEM cases, and aftermarket bearing, spring, etc... It still seems like a better bet than rolling the dice on an older bearing setup... Perhaps the magnet trick will keep the ball bearings from getting everywhere
Just checked my 84' W126 300SD and the pump's different from as far as I can tell. have a W124 300D as well so the difference was easy to spot. The OM617's engine uses an entirely different pump then the OM603's
8:30 How would i know the screws on the pump are large or small if i don't have different kinds to compare? Anyone has the torx size or screw head diameter to measure?
@@vintage76vipergreenBeetle I may have spoken out of turn for 1.9 TDI the pump I was thinking about has been a booster vacuum pump from 2003 on multiple VW cars. 2 wire hookup. Part number 8E0927317A
@Engineerd3d That might be the solution to the problem ,of not finding parts to rebuild the original pumps in the coming years. I wonder why MB stopped making rebuild parts for the diesel vacuum pumps.
@latus-rectum45 Pure financial lawsuits do do that. However, a lawsuit can be framed in such a way the remedial change must be made and current manufacturing continue while this remediation engineering rectifies the problem is. Once the problem has been solved remediation is made to all affected vehicles. Don't forget m-b has already been successfully sued in regards to diesel consumption. If you own one you got paid some cash and mechanical repair.
I changed my old open-bearing style pump to a Pierburg (Made in Germany) updated/enclosed bearing pump - at close to 200 k miles (shortly after I bought the car). No visible damage.
I had this happen on my w123 turbo 300d. Fortunately it didn’t cause engine failure and I was able to retrieve all the ball bearings by removing the oil pan. I simply replaced the pump by a remanufactured unit and it’s been good for the last 20k miles. Is the bearing failure simply due to wear and tear from age/mileage? Or is it timing device bronze bushing play that causes it?
Thing is that's a different pump, or at least from so far that I can tell on my 84' W126 300SD, unless they changed the pump to an even different one on that series. But if it were the same pump as on my 300SD (which it probably is.) at how much mileage did you get that issue?
@@fireplays_official my pump had 267k miles when it blew up. I believe all om617 turbos on the w123 and w126 use the same "gen II" style pump; the one without the replaceable diaphragm(like the earlier ones). I replaced with a genuine refurbished pump(no longer available) and have put 18k miles since then. It's still in good condition, so it makes me think the old one died due to high mileage rather than some timing device issue.
Could the Chinese pumps be “remanded” to a better state? I’m willing to talk tooling! I think there could be a big enough market to build and sell these.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
So my ‘59 180d is flawless and I can continue to show up to every event late due to the limited top speed? Sweet.
Oh dear, what a mistake to make! Let’s use a duplex timing chain then compromise it by hanging an unshielded ball bearing over it that obviously only gets splash lubrication.
Never heard of this issue before and have been around Merc diesels forty years now.
Every day is a school day!
Thanks Pierre.
Had that happen to a w124 200D 1992, bought the car from a widow, stood for 4 years, car was 9 years old at the time and only had 24k km on the clock. Went through the car before putting it back on the road and the bearing in the pump failed after 2 days... skipped the chain and broke a timing cover. Luckily that was all the damage and was repairable. After that the car was sold and still in possession of the same owner and now at well over 500k km.
Help Pierre,
I live in Melbourne Australia.
Unleaded petrol was put into my 2012 E220 CDI diesel and driven almost 2 kms before it spluttered and was turned off. The car has been meticulously serviced every year and has travelled 112,000kms.
I’ll have it towed to the mechanics in the morning but in your experience, do you think this has totalled the car please?
Hope I hear back and thanks for your excellent and useful Videos. You have legendary status amongst the Australian MB community.
Best wishes, Christopher
I'd say the fatal flaw on the om617's is the fuel filter Primer pump location "leaking" and a rubber motor mount below it, then the oil cooler line forward and the power steering pump pulley! Engine Flex and game over!
Great Topic ! all I can say is Vacume pumps are the only part that really suck when they are working and really suck when they break
Isn't the om61x family affected by this as well ?
Nice information. 👍
Thanks! Get some rest, man. If I was 40 years younger, I'd really try to work for you in any capacity. I've worked for guys like you over my career and I use what I've learned everyday.
When replacing my oil pan I found some ball bearings and other shrapnel that I assume came from a previous vacuum pump before I owned it. Guess I got lucky cos the car seems fine (?) 85 300TD. Would love to see more on how to identify good used pumps and or how to rebuild.
OR! You could do what I did on my 606 and delete the vacuum pump 😁. Just need to install a vacuum reservoir, an electric pump, a vacuum switch, and do the plumbing. Works great, just make sure you don't have vacuum leaks. I used a GM part from a turbo vehicle. I posted it on the forums somewhere and got a fair amount of hate for it 🤣
Great information, many thanks!
I have always thought that the OM616/617 had similar vacuum pump problems? I noticed you didn't mention it !
if he doesn't mention it then it doesn't apply.. i'm sure the 617 has this issue due to the engine being built different compared to the 616 engine... theres a reason why pierre loves the 240D so much haha
@@note_fingerDo you know this for a fact?
You called one bearing type defective and the other type bad, did you mean to do that?
Exactly. Can you please clarify Pierre which one is good which is bad? Thanks
Yep, happened to my '95 E300D. I did fix it, what surprised me is how the exhaust cam sprocket slipped on the cam. Had to have the front cover crack welded too. The valve job was the easy part.
Does this issue affect the earlier 616 and 617 engines as well?
Does the frequency of engine oil changes affect the life of the vacuum pump? I have OM616.
Why can't anybody manufacture a simple bearing for this pumps?
I have a spare Pierberg vac pump from the pick n pull yard. Bearing looks updated, and there is a Mercedes 3 star logo and an MB part number stamped on the case. Did Pierberg use OEM cases, and aftermarket bearing, spring, etc... It still seems like a better bet than rolling the dice on an older bearing setup... Perhaps the magnet trick will keep the ball bearings from getting everywhere
What about the om617?
Remove yours and inspect it.
Just checked my 84' W126 300SD and the pump's different from as far as I can tell. have a W124 300D as well so the difference was easy to spot.
The OM617's engine uses an entirely different pump then the OM603's
But how long can one expect to last , how many kms thanks
Can the vacuum pumps from the early w123's cars, be used on the 1981-85 w123's cars?🤔
8:30 How would i know the screws on the pump are large or small if i don't have different kinds to compare? Anyone has the torx size or screw head diameter to measure?
Why not run an electric vacuum pump? Bosch made them for vw 1.9 cars.
What year vw 1.9 engine ?
@@vintage76vipergreenBeetle I may have spoken out of turn for 1.9 TDI the pump I was thinking about has been a booster vacuum pump from 2003 on multiple VW cars. 2 wire hookup. Part number 8E0927317A
@Engineerd3d
That might be the solution to the problem ,of not finding parts to rebuild the original pumps in the coming years. I wonder why MB stopped making rebuild parts for the diesel vacuum pumps.
This is great information. Now, how do owners of these diesels join together for a class action lawsuit against m-b?
The only way I would join something like this is if they continued production of discontinued parts!!!
@@latus-rectum45A typical response, do nothing things will improve. 60 years later the problem still exists. Where is your magic wand?
@kaaspakhuis438 Technically, you are incorrect. Production ceases to exist. Lawsuits are the reason. Thanks!
@latus-rectum45 Pure financial lawsuits do do that. However, a lawsuit can be framed in such a way the remedial change must be made and current manufacturing continue while this remediation engineering rectifies the problem is. Once the problem has been solved remediation is made to all affected vehicles.
Don't forget m-b has already been successfully sued in regards to diesel consumption. If you own one you got paid some cash and mechanical repair.
@kaaspakhuis438 yea and i did the right thing and opted out.
Is the failure related to high mileage cars or it can happen any time? Thanks
I changed my old open-bearing style pump to a Pierburg (Made in Germany) updated/enclosed bearing pump - at close to 200 k miles (shortly after I bought the car). No visible damage.
...is it an easy job to do? ...what would you charge to do it? ...I have an 85 w123 300d
...and thanks for the heads-up
I had this happen on my w123 turbo 300d. Fortunately it didn’t cause engine failure and I was able to retrieve all the ball bearings by removing the oil pan. I simply replaced the pump by a remanufactured unit and it’s been good for the last 20k miles.
Is the bearing failure simply due to wear and tear from age/mileage? Or is it timing device bronze bushing play that causes it?
Thing is that's a different pump, or at least from so far that I can tell on my 84' W126 300SD, unless they changed the pump to an even different one on that series. But if it were the same pump as on my 300SD (which it probably is.) at how much mileage did you get that issue?
@@fireplays_official my pump had 267k miles when it blew up. I believe all om617 turbos on the w123 and w126 use the same "gen II" style pump; the one without the replaceable diaphragm(like the earlier ones).
I replaced with a genuine refurbished pump(no longer available) and have put 18k miles since then. It's still in good condition, so it makes me think the old one died due to high mileage rather than some timing device issue.
OM642 vacuum pump looks nothing like that, I doubt it’ll work.
Well, this is a bummer topic...
Could the Chinese pumps be “remanded” to a better state? I’m willing to talk tooling! I think there could be a big enough market to build and sell these.
glad this doesnt happen on a 616 engine heheueheu
Surprised to see T. Chong talking about anything but weed....
That Nam grass can do really strange things to your face.