The Best Takedown for Self Defense
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Do I need to be from the USA?
One of the best things about your channel and videos is how you give the pros and cons of each move.
Excellent points Sensei. Don’t bother with haters talkin crap, because they are exactly the ones who don’t train. They just watch guys like us who do. Couch keyboard warriors in their mamas basement.
Does is have to be the same email that I use for RUclips?
No place on the link to put my email
The position you like is better than mount or side control or knee--on-belly, because you can escape easier if he has a friend coming to join the fight. As you stated, you only need "enough" control, and having excess control limits your escape options.
That’s a really good point.
Been soccer kicked in my head because I committed to a choke with other a-holes around. Valuable experience.
But how hard is it to get up from knee-on-belly? It really shouldn't take more than half a second unless you're really out of shape.
@@poleag You are correct, the difference is slight.
If it’s not the concrete suplex I’ll be disappointed
He self defence not murder
@@mathewpercy3292 I mean, they can’t hurt you if they’re a vegetable right?
@@mathewpercy3292 shooting someone is self defence or murder?
@@driver3899depends on what your other options were.
Isn't wrestling fake ? Lol
i'm not a regular here but _every_ time i watch one of his videos, i'm impressed with how i agree with everything!
Man KNOWS his stuff!
(I'm 50 w loooooooads of real life experience/fighting/martial arts/self defense/arresting angry, violent ppl etc)
I'm a know-nothing hobbyist boxer, but the thing pointing me toward Judo over BJJ is that I don't want to be on the ground in a real life encounter. BJJ seems like too much control. I do not need to finish a fight in real life. I need to stay safe and run away at the first opportunity. I can do that striking or throwing. I cannot run away while trying for a submission.
I do think I’d prefer judo over BJJ in a lot of contexts (and thus as my potential base for grappling), but situationally there may be times where BJJ is more appropriate. Sitting down in a crowded space, or if you’ve tripped over something or if someone else is just bigger or sneakier so that you’re on the ground anyway. Also for certain domestic violence situations.
Ne waza / groundfighting *is* still part of judo, but its importance is vastly different in its competitive context, so you have to be aware of that when looking at judo gyms.
Competitive judo does not have much grappling I spent 2 years in judo and switched to bjj because my sensei consolidated our school and I couldn’t afford the drive so I took up jiu jitsu one thing I found is a lot of times I throw people trained or untrained is they hang on for dear life causing me to fall with them judo is great I really miss it but jiu jitsu has enough standing grappling to deal with most any untrained person
I train Bjj about 2 years in and I would only use it in a 1v1 and as a last resort like I'm injured and they on top already so I always endure when I train as well and practice escapes usually don't use the attacks because tbh I would just bite, elbow and eliminate instead of bargaining in a life or death situation. It's good if you ever have to defend against someone you love as well
One of the first techniques I learned at my BJJ place was the ogoshi (a standing takedown) but yeah BJJ has a big emphasis on ground fighting
i believe BJJ can teach you some basic ground grappling principles so you can defend yourself if someone else takes you down, as unlikely as it may sound. It is also really fun, so I do recommend trying it out anyway. But yeah Judo rocks.
I could tell that wasn’t fake. The physics behind that take down are sound. You quickly changing directions and then pulling back and downwards, not allowing the opponents feet time to recover themselves. It makes complete senses. I think all the grapplers and wrestlers in your audience understand right away it’s legit. 🤙
Thank you Icy Mike
"For self defence, we really don't need to control our opponent that much".
Bang! The fundamental problem with BJJ right there.
“You don’t need your eyes in combat sports.” That’s a really good point and something that I like about you. You talk about looking around. It’s really easy to get focused on one thing and forget everything else.
Ironically, rolling in a small space with a big class helps with this. We constantly are watching for each other for safety but it .akes people more aware of their surroundings. Anything that helps I guess.
I think you raise some great points. One of the biggest issues with "self-defense" is the legal aspects. What are the consequences of dropping an attacker on his head on concrete and potentially killing him vs getting a loose control position and running away. Dealing with an attacker on the street has unknowns that a fight in the ring doesn't have. I think the complexities of legal, unknown accomplices, and unknown weapons makes "self-defense" techniques harder. Training for sport definitely gives a big leg up though.
sounds like a classic case of "you have to master the rules before you can get away with breaking them"
Great video! Been waiting for someone to finally address this. Always seems like people who bash grappling for self defense never acknowledge that if you're an experienced grappler, you have the option to take someone down without committing to rolling around on concrete. For controlling most untrained people, tradition positions like side control and mount are likely overkill anyway, plus the added downside of reduced awareness of your surroundings while in those tighter positions.
Also, totally agreed that if you can't do the more basic sport-style grappling, you're gonna have a bad time trying less sporty techniques that actually require more grappling skill. Combat sports training may not always be sufficient for self-defense readiness, but it sure is a prerequisite.
Great point you are making that a experinced grappler do not nessecerly need to roll around on the concrete!
For an example: A style I've been training with roots in tradtional Japanese JuJutsu use kicks and punches to break the opponents posture/balance to open up for a throw/take down. Once the throw is done it is done in such a way that the opponent have hard time landing well (make them land on shoulders, neck, stomach or face, change direction in the middle, slam them down, make them land on a knee etc etc). As soon as they hit the ground there is often a follow up with a dropped spearing knee to an exposed area (like face, neck, ribs, stomach, groin/inside the hip or major mucles) often while controling a joint in some way. Ofc there could from there be any number of followups with strikes, weapons, chokes or joint locks/break to finnishing it if needed. However the most important thing in this context is the goal to quickly disengage in anticipation of another attacker, while still preceive the first oponent as a lingering potential threat.
So instead of using the strikes as a "knock out tool" the gravity is used in the shape of slams to the ground and dropped knees, often in order to destroy rather the control, and the disengage. Rolling around on the concrete batteling over control in order to achive submission is not a goal. This due to the danger of potential multiple attackers.
Not saying that is the best strategy. I am saying that is a strategy in where a grappler do not primary aim toward commiting to rolling around on the concrete.
To give another example: One of the most surgical/meassured self defences I have seen in real life was a defense against a strike to the face where the attacked avioded the attack by stepping in and grab the attackers collar while pushing him backwards to break his balance. The defender then proceed to spin a couple of full turns, like a discus thrower, and the attacker was pressed outward by the cetrefugal force in the spin - while moving some distance. Then defender then suddenly stopped the spins and did a beatiful high classical judo hip throw. The attackers hip bone/pelvice met those edgestones that elevates the pavement from the road upon landing, by the defenders design. The attacker did not rise again. No extra control nor rolling around was needed because he used the ground as a "knock out tool", not a place to battl for control leading in to a submission.
the problem with grappling styles though is that it trains you over and over to be on the ground with your opponent
in real life situations you dont want to be on the ground with your attacker
you want to know how to get out from under them / how not to get dragged to the ground by them in the first place and thats about it
I recall a proverb from Japanese Jujutsu stylists, “good to have excellent ground technique, but better you stay up, knock other guy down. Maybe stab.” Seems consistent, given the original styles were based on the assumption you’re in a crowd of violent people with four foot razor blades. They have a fair point!
@@driver3899 but you need repetitions with grapplers/wrestlers to train those skill sets, regardless. Perhaps you just mean that certain gyms do not put enough focus on self defense grappling.
@@samuraiartguy Haha excelent point.
Great stuff as always Mike! Regarding your question, I think it's worth it when contextualized properly and given specific goals that have crossover between self-defense and combat sports. For example, the partners take roles as attacker or defender, and are given their goals. The attacker's goals are usually to land strikes to the head, execute a takedown, or access a weapon once a clinch is established. The defender's goals are usually to minimize damage received, monitor the hands and waistband, and stay standing or in a dominant position like the one you showed around 4:30 -- with the ultimate goal being to have either enough control that they can land fight-ending strikes or access their weapon, and disengage when possible.
As you know, you can give them any number of variations on these goals. Orient them in such a way that they need to get past the attacker and get to a doorway behind them (crossover: maneuvering off the cage/well to reverse the position or controlling the center of the arena). Defender must minimize damage while on the bottom of mount/side mount, including preventing access to a weapon, and get to their feet or some other position (crossover: exactly the same minus weapons). And so on. So long as the overall skills being developed have crossover, I think it's worth it.
It's valid. It's worth some effort for higher level practicioners. In fact, the better you get I would imagine the more subtlely effective you become. Minimal effort for maximum output, it's not a muscle flexing contest in these super stressfull situations. Love it man.
I think it is absolutely worthwhile to train things like this if your focus is non-sports fighting. You can benefit from it for sports too, since things rarely work out like you wanted them to, so beeing used to non-optimal variants is not a bad thing.
What I like about this whole sequence is that there are few ways that leave you worse off than before, if you screw up. E.g. if the timing is not right, you can just try again. For most people, this will feel like a bunch of pushing and pulling and they will not even notice what you tried to do there.
I think once someone is at the level they can hit the sport techniques its important to continue to reframe and train for self defense. One good example is the video you did with Jesse. He's been training MA and fighting for awhile, but since it wasn't continuously reframed for self defense once he was at the level, he followed you to the ground instead of running away, he didn't call for help etc.
When we're good at fighting because we've practiced fighting so much, we're treating the engagement as a fight instead of self defense. Once you get to the level people can execute techniques then you have to train for self defense instead of just sport or fighting.
I think I agree. The issue isn't that there definitely are techniques that are better in a situation where there are no rules and no one watching your back compare to the alternative. That's rudimentary philosophy to carve that out. The issue is going to be how you spend your time and what you get good at. Someone practicing combat sports is actually practicing combat, which is way more than I can say about the majority of anyone I've ever met who say they only practice "for the streetz". It's like the same issue with TCM. Plenty of valid stuff in a lot of it, but the vast majority of them don't fight. It'd be more effective to teach TCM to an experienced MMA fighter who already knows how to fight than it would be to teach a TCM "master" to start fighting. There is just no shortcut to getting good at fighting.
Excellent! Reminds me that pretty much all the takedowns in traditional karate kata are also intended to put someone on the ground while staying on your feet. Unfortunately most karate schools don’t actually teach them and the few that do rarely pressure test them and very rarely do any sparring that involves takedowns
I grew up on Judo and recently started traditional Jujutsu. The takedowns we're doing look a lot more like this and much less like a Judo throw. Real good stuff.
I think for those that need techniques without hurting people this is better. Especially if you're a bouncer/security. Maybe youre dealing with a relative or someone you know.
So, here's where I think we're at. We're back around at the point where we are looking at concepts and techniques and principles that were emphasized as high priority by old-school self defense guys going back as far as Colonel William E. Fairbairn and his "gutter-fighting" system in WWII. However, we now recognize that these high priority techniques that have also been marketed as "simple, effective, gross-motor, and efficient" do in fact have a very high skill ceiling, and would require an intuitive understanding and knowledge normally only acquired after a long and lengthy career in martial arts and combat sports. Interestingly enough, every so-called "self defense system" in existence usually boils down to handpicked techniques selected by people who themselves DO have lengthy backgrounds in combat sports. Imi Licthenfeld, the founder of Krav Maga, was a wrestler and boxed. Fairbairn did Judo, Catch, Savate, and Chinese martial arts. This trend is still continuing with stuff like Gracie Survival Tactics, Tim Kennedy's Sheepdog Response organization, and Craig's Extreme Close-Quarter Concepts.
I suppose the question that needs to be asked is: Is it even possible or feasible to teach/deliver these high-level principles to people who have next to no background in fighting or athletics in a condensed period of time, and expect them to be able to execute them with consistent quality in a live environment? Or is everyone simply better off starting with modern combat sports, and only adding this kind of stuff in after 6 months - 1 year of training?
My view is that you need to become comfortable with getting very close with people and grappling/sparring with people who are resisting you and you need to resist. You need to know what it is like to be physically dominated.
You also need to develop general/core strength and stamina.
Growing up playing sports like Rugby are excellent for those things, for the volume of contact time (in the forwards particularly) that you get.
This is an excellent point about how all the "unknowns" about self defense situations can change things and should change your approach. In sport fighting, you can commit more to something as you know the game and the possible outcomes. In the street, things are not so clear. Keeping your options open-- makes perfect sense.
My high school wrestling coach used to make us train blindfolded (both guys). Great comment about needing eyes in the street but it's amazing how much you learn about balance, CG and position when you are relying on everything but your eyes.
@hard2hurt - one issue with your self defense teachings and talks about "street fights". When people are fighting on the streets or being attacked, they are not wearing shorts and a tshirt but rather thick jackets (winter), leather jackets (fall/spring), or other material which restricts movement as well as offering a means to slip out of a grip. Nevermind the additional padding a jacket may give (depending on type of jacket). I would like to see more of that element incorporated into your teachings... Keep up the awesome work.
I think the reason it's worth training is because when you go for the "sport" version and it does't go the way you plan it's good to have something messier that still works in your back pocket. I don't have the experience to know if it's better or worse but it seems like another option that's low risk of failure with a high degree of effectiveness. Plan B always sucks but it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.
I like training self-defense, BJJ, boxing and ECQC. I agree, against an ""untrained" opponent simple is typically better. The problem with that comes when you have an opponent who isn't completely untrained. One might find out before it's too late. So, I train planning that they are trained in something. The less complicated, the more repeatable, the better. But the more tools in the toolbox the better change you give yourself for survival. Thank you for addressing the need for the eyes sir.
5:19, this idea is correct. When you bring someone to the ground you want most of the momentum to be gone other wise they roll and in order to "secure" the takedown you roll with them. But as soon as they hit the mat and start rolling is unpredictable how they will roll and where there body will end up. If you watch college wrestling you will see how hard it is to secure a takedown when the opponent "rolls through" with the momentum...sometimes the attacker can end up pinned on their own back
Defending yourself while also protecting your assailant is harder and more stressful, but you and your family will have a way happier life than if you suplex him on his head and you end up going to court or jail
When it comes to "training for sport" vs "training for self defense," I like the hybrid idea of training for sports while EMPHASIZING the practical concepts and mindset that fits into the self defense world.
Using your takedown as an example, sports training teaches us that this takedown is low-effort/risk, moderate to high reward in a competition as you nearly always end up in an advantageous position (unless you're going against a wrestler and he crushes you in the scramble). Part of the lesson should then transition into essentially what you did in this video, which was go over critical points of what you should be thinking and trying to do. 1) Simplicity of the takedown 2) ending position(s) that allows you to keep your opponent on the ground to either control or escape and 3) nonstop position to minimize your opponent's ability to harm you with weapons.
One of my favorite BJJ instructors, Greg, were like this. He's a police lieutenant for a local police force and he would add to his lessons what he used on the streets. First the traditional BJJ sports explanation, and how the move transitions into this and this and here's 2 more variations. Then he'd go street mode, everything from "this works great when your attacker is bigger than you" to "this keeps your opponents arms tied up to where they can't reach for a knife or, if it's in their hand, they can't swing it at you easily."
Self defense is absolutely a mentality, and disciplines like BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, and Kickboxing capture components to that mentality. As a private security officer, I've spent most of my BJJ and Judo career building my grappling arsenal based on what I felt was practical for streets and what isn't. So my omoplata submission? Not all that great, but I am able to recognize and quickly hook a free arm with my legs to come up on top. My Drop Seoi Nage? Easily one of my best takedowns next to my O Soto Gari.
Stay safe everyone!
Yo mike, you covered a lot of important fundamentals in this one, despite showing a modified technique, and I think it's a great demonstration and concept you're getting across. Takes a little experience to make it work for you, but the concept applies to several techniques, this being a great one to demo on.
The pain in your face and voice when you said "And now I sound like them." Classic.
This is a great point. If you are training “sport,” you are hitting tons of reps in reproducible skill. I recently chaperoned a youth group to a “strictly self defense” seminar. The intro was an eight strike combo, including three different punches and two different kicks. Two people on the room had any martial arts experience. As you said, any novice wrestler or boxer would be far more prepared to defend themselves.
Honestly, the old "my dad taught me how to throw a punch" is more valuable.
Literally just one punch.
You already said it: the key difference is grappling skills. Against an untrained person, thats viable IF you have wrestling in your arsenal. If you dont, the more agressive, violent, and athletic of you wins regardless of knowing that "self defense technique"
Very insightful. I think it very worthwhile because you won't always land a total control grapple in the chaos and working with the less control holds allows you practice less ideal situations but make them work anyway. The deliberate lack of commitment to prevent tunnel vision is a very solid point as well. Thank you!
Mike, I think you made some very good comments. And others here have also made good comments about the differences between fighting sports, martial arts as sport, martial arts as self defense, and just self defense training (a lot of people out there doing "street fighting" training).
Personally, I think if an individual wants a good rounded education then they will do both combat sport training as well as self defense training. You can go more in depth into either one you prefer, but knowing both will be the best option for people, imo. And I think you have made that comment in previous videos, to be "your best" you should learn a little of both sides.
I agree that people that focus only on sport can forget that on the street someone might have a friend - or 6 waiting to back them up. And if all your focus goes on that one individual, then it doesn't matter if you are in perfect guard position when your opponent's friend hits you in the back of the head with a baseball bat. You have to be able to focus. That was one of the reasons my karate instructor always included 2, 3, and up to 5 person self defense training. Sometimes you just have to do enough and then shift focus or be able to quickly adapt to a new or different threat that is now imminent.
And, in you scenario where you were behind his hip, you can react, but also look at and talk with the person. That can be a great time to deescalate a situation. Whether it be the drunk uncle at the BBQ someone else mentioned, or a person that just had a few too many at the bar. If you get some basic control, you have the option of talking the individual down or maybe his friends will intercede to get him under control or out of the bar. Your opponent's friends may help him, but they might just help you if he was the one getting out of line.
Great video. Thanks.
In the past, while on duty I've found, underhook the arm on the same side, drive the upper body down and around whilst moving him to the floor face down. Then figure of 4 arm lock across his back. It's very effective.
More control equals more time required to get away too (for the good guy). Good stuff.
Yeah, this is actually what I'd call a basic "law of martial economy": you can get the same effect with less control but more expertise as you can with less expertise but more control. Similar axioms exist for opponent's skill and training vs. yours, for strength and speed, etc. It's all trade-offs. What's essential is fitness, situational awareness, and commitment to your goal.
DAMN. You showed my secret favorite move. Lol. Old guy here and wrestler in the 60S. I'm little and this exact move is perfect for every occasion outside and inside the ring.
I used this on huge guys and had endless options immediately following it. Including running... Ha ha ha. Or controlling or striking or choking out etc etc.
But hey.... Don't show this to the big guys. Spoils my only advantage.
Great channel. Thanks man.
3:25, as a wrestler I personally hate wrapping around the arms they can very easily leave your hold. What is I deal is wrapping around the torso/stomach simply for control. You don't have to lift them at all to bring them to the ground. There are other methods that revolve less around strength and "explosiveness"
Relative noob here, but this is my take on specific self defense techniques:
1) They only work against certain stuff - great, you learned to defend against a rear bear hug but that's useless against a front bear hug
2) You need to be able to pull them off flawlessly at a moments notice, and that takes hours of drilling a unique technique that only apples in one circumstance. Average person doesn't have time for that.
3) If you can't pull it off flawlessly, then you are left holding your own elbow while your opponent knows you are looking to cause trouble.
Best bet is to practice punching really hard in the face. Works for lots of situitations, relatively easy to learn and if it doesn't work, just wind up and start again as quick as you can
Not a dork, just smaller than you having spent 10 years in patrol. The Whole BJJ techniques started after I left patrol in 99. A few of us spent time working on stuff we thought would work in the street. All the PPCT stuff was mostly useless in a real fight. Civilians need to ground their opponent and leave before his buddies step in. The LEO needs to control once grounded and hopefully backup is coming soon. Good stuff you teach.
I don't claim to have "the" answer, but "one" answer we like to do is to use the "sport" things in practice and then understanding the differences for self defense. Skills and techniques are mechanical and they have to be drilled and reputed and tested, but self defense mostly comes down to tactical decisions, and those have to be studied and understood. What I mean is it's easier to get someone who wrestles regularly and then come and tell them "ok, wrestle but focus on his hands" than to get someone who doesn't wrestle and tell them "ok, practice this technique when you get a hold of his hands"
I used to train Aikido, and now I do Muay Thai. In the Aikido dojo, we always used to hear "these moves are for combat. We don't spar because it's too dangerous, yadda yadda", but we weren't training any of the techniques as if we were gonna fight with them. At the Muay Thai gym, everything is about fighting because, if you want to, you'll eventually be in the ring. The conclusion I've reached is *if you can fight* you can make those wonky wtf techniques work because you have an inherent understanding of the intensity and timing required to pull them off. If you don't have that understanding and you skip combat sports training, you're setting yourself up to invest a lot of time into a complicated hobby that's more similar to LARPing than fighting. It doesn't matter how many self defense techniques I know if i can't punch someone in the face. Some people like to skip the fundamentals. They want martial arts to be like swinging through the drive thru when really it's a 1,000 mile journey that you walk.
The way i see it, you want an appropriate amount of control when it comes to self-defence. Because control is proportional to the "closeness" of the encounter/incident, and the main part of defending yourself (and others) is getting distance to whatever is hurting you (eventually). But that kind of control over control, being able to relinquish it just enough so that you still have it, that obviously takes far more skill than going all in with the control, because you need to be able to relinquish it without giving it up and still be able to do whatever it is you plan to do. Going all in with control is almost compensating for a lack of skill; so training to become more skilled gives you that sensitivity to know when you should be controlling where, and how much you need to control it to get the outcome you want.
And if you think a bit about it: who in your gym is able to completely determine how much control they have over the situation but you still can barely touch them regardless of it? The trainers and very advanced students. Thats not a coincidence
Somewhere in Eastern Europe (Russia I think), they did team MMA. The team that won wasn’t the best overall group, but the one that had any fighter win 10 seconds or more before the other team finished any fight. Once a single fighter was out, the person who had been fighting him ran over and started helping a teammate. That would last 5-15sec or so.
Point being these fights demonstrate how difficult it is to fight 2 people and how control that is desirable in a 1 on 1 fight can immobilize you if a second person jumps in. They don’t even touch on problems you can have if someone pulls a weapon.
I would say that street is worth knowing about. The alternate takedowns, the reasoning behind not wanting to have a full clinch, etc. However I would say training time should be spent on what is most effective.
Hello, i love watching your videos. As you said we should certainly train combat sports techniques because after all combat sports techniques are also effective on the street. I train krav maga at KMG (Krav Maga Global) and most of the techniques we use are from wrestling, bjj, boxing, etc. because they are extremely effective, but even so we still practice the self-defense aspect because there are several reasons for not using certain combat sports techniques in the street. I know that there are several Krav Maga McDojos and that is why krav is frowned upon, in all classes at my gym we train techniques with resistance. One of our mottos is that if there is a good attack there will be a good defense. Keep up the good work.
It straight up legit, it’s again “act tactically. THINK strategically.” In self-defense scenarios, you want to have the maximum options and ranges of response. When you said “he may have a weapon, or hepatitis.” I immediately thought “or three asshole friends.” You have to adapt in the moment, and being closely entangled on the ground does not always serve that goal. You want to be able to disengage rapidly as a fluid and randomized situation calls for.
Looks very much like a classical karate takedown. Especially with both knees pressing from the rear. Horse stance ftw.
The rear naked choke is a simple and reliable technique to subdue an opponent in a street fight; apply pressure under the opponent’s nose with your hand (thumb & index) to lift their chin and expose their neck.
I think it worth it, not necessarly to pratice specific self-defence technics but you need at least to add vicious things to your sport moves for being more efficient in the street.
when it comes to 'street' let us not forget that most sumbags have zero clue how to land and they are landing on a hard and broken surface. Chucking some one to the ground is a fight ENDING move off the mat/out the ring. This is the core principle of judo - and judo has a very good point here. At the very least it takes most people a while to get back u giving you time to get away or for help to arrive.
Ive done plenty of sport, but also plenty of 'street' as it were, having been both in the forces and also in security(bouncer, door staff, hotel etc).
Just going to share my personal favorite 'street' self defense 'technique' here - and its SUPER easy and any one can do it.
- Wear a decent quality leather jacket
They are stylish, warm, weather proof, long lasting and some what stab resistant and impact resistant.
I have 3 good leather coats (for different weather). 2 of them have had to be repaired due to getting 'cut' while I was working, I however did not require repairs!
If you are professional security and you are expected to wear a suit, I strongly recommend a stab resistant vest under your shirt and a clip on tie. Either could save your life. wear a tshirt under the vest to reduce discomfort.
Respect to you mike
I agree with everything you said..... solid thinking.
I know where to go with this, keep them coming. Seems like the balance between going all grapple/no strike and "never go to the ground in a street fight".
It's definitely worth teaching techniques that are situational because typically a niche technique will cover more needs of a specific situation, but (as you know) learning those niche techniques that fit rare circumstances shouldn't come at the expense of more general techniques that can be applied in a wider variety of context and still be effective. You shouldn't be drilling reverse gut wrenches at the expense of drilling arm drags, snap downs or single legs. You shouldn't be drilling hyper specific striking techniques if your cross and teep suck. Is a cross the perfect answer to every question? No, but it's a pretty ok answer to a lot of them.
The way you grabbed Eric's arm was a violation XD
I think it’s important to add these into curriculums. Sometimes when we focus too much on the sports sides of things that we get a removed from the reality of fighting. For example the way I grapple in MMA and self defense minded grappling is way different than when I train BJJ
Bruh got his inner elbow violated 😮
The finish position of the take down reminds me heavily of the end position that I learnt from training Japanese Ju-jitsu. A majority of the throws end with the defender in a standing position above the attacks, usually with a grip on an arm ready to strike, joint lock or run away. I trained excessively yin self defence techniques and every single one of them is practical. But my training wasn't. I was not prepared for defending a series of strikes, or getting rushed and tackled, or realistically what happens is someone does grab you from behind in a rear choke. They dont stand there with a limp grip; they bury you into the ground. All the techniques I learned I believe are perfectly fine throws and takedowns but the method I was taught removed a lot of practicality from them and effective application. If I had learnt wrestling or kept up with Judo, my skills for effective fighting or takedowns would be miles better. Instead I learnt a lot of scenario work that ventured into the realms of fantasy. I really like that Mike is showing some of the principles that I learnt when I was younger applied in a realistic manner. My dad trained in martial arts and he said he liked that with something like what Mike is showing you can decide how much force you can apply, be it just getting them to the ground, restrain and joint lock or pummel the hell out of them.
Train it on new guys. In my opinion it’s the best of both worlds because the super effective stuff like your mat returns and blast doubles are usually the type of stuff that will hurt a new guy because they don’t know how to land yet, while this stuff is much harder to land and really is only useful for untrained guys like your trial white belts so instead of picking dude up and throwing him though the fucking wall or on his head I think that’s the place where you should try stuff like this
The funny thing with this whole video, is that you firmly made the case for hard-style hapkido(as opposed to fake Aikido), as more important to train for the street than BJJ or MMA...yes, MMA with Muy Thai, wrestling and BJJ works the best in an octagon, with octagon rules, but, IMO, hard-style hapkido-type of training gives the best bang for the buck for non-elite, non-MMA, not-too-athletic typical people. In war and street fights, people not only fight with guns, but, also with knives, clubs, eye-poking, biting, and, yes, even ball-grabbing...
Really late on this comment but I think a good way to practice self defense is to practice sport and then every once in a while get an untrained friend to practice self defense with. This is the difficulty with advancing in anything. The little stuff is more and more important. But against a novice, in just about anything (I actually thought about it from playing competitive video games), you can get bigger leads/advantages more quickly with moves that would be too risky for a more advanced opponent. So TLDR training for self defense for me is trying to get really proficient at the skills that come with combat and then occasionally testing where I may find bigger opportunities in the vast majority of untrained fighters. You will also be exposed to things you aren't used to seeing in sparring, like flailing punches, being rushed at, and whatever else people come up with. I feel this gives the highest percent chance of successful self defense which is all you can ask for.
Absolutely love that you said if the "bad guy" is arm dragging you in the street your f**kd lol to true for a lot of reasons lol
Very good video and great with some thoughts on amount of control.
I am a smaller guy and may need to let go when I cant handle stronger guys so may be I should let go and get away...
Another thing is that your take down can be non escalating and letting the other guy calm down without getting attacked on the ground. May be you can end it without furter injuries for both?
You did not say it (I think) but your message can be "I´ve put you down now dude,and I can keep on or let you up, behave!"
Thanks for interresting video!
9:50 since u asked: YES!!! You're right, you SHOULD absolutely learn 'self-defense' stuff (more complicated) - because it ALL ADDS UP!
I once did a take down with a guy who attacked me in the street from what i saw in a Steven Segal movie!!! (a kind of arm drag where i just kept going in a circle, tighter and faster than his legs could keep up, so of course, he falls and then i can pin and hold him to the ground with ONE ARM)
I don't fight, and I don't watch MMA. However, I find your content fascinating since I saw you on Jesse's channel.
Makes sense... I mean... You're essentially showing a group fighting technique. Keeping yourself free to disengage.
But using the "sport" techniques, you can still disengage... Just not AS well.
I remember some of those overcomplicated self defense classes against knives 😂
Well, it's good to be direct and honest, mate. Adults value them instead of being led a round and round, that just damages both sides. And for those who don't, maybe they're not yet mature, and whatever you say wouldn't matter much.
I'll say, have a day of self defense focus, have everyone wear everyday clothes or work clothes for that. You know most techniques need adjustment when you wear skirts and high heels :p
What you're doing is essentially what Tai Chi supposed be!
I'm convinced that the techniques we see in most traditional martial arts were meant for an audience that was expected to already know how to wrestle!
If people who popularized these styles were actually winning street fights, it's unreasonable to imagine they all somehow weren't clinching and grappling!
My guess is that because it was so universally understood, it was taken for granted. As time went on and as more and more "practitioners" lived lifestyles where they didn't experience or even see violence regularly, I can imagine people focusing the "special techniques" and spending less time getting physically exhausted, humbled, and injured by working on the more practical thing "everyone" can do. If they aren't relying on their arts against real resistance, then it doesn't take long for the techniques to lose all real context.
I don't know about too much control. But I think I get what Mike is saying.
It's about commitment. How much are we willing to invest in one move, with the risk of getting locked in the fight. Especially when there are outside factors we can't control.
Great video and Im relieved I understood what you were talking about.
Solid intel; thanks, Mike!
Finally, something for da streetz.
This is what I want taught to cops. It looks safer for both combatants, especially the untrained one who doesn't know how to fall. I would appreciate if you expanded this into a series on Police wrestling, specifically how techniques should be modified so a trained person can subdue an untrained person with the minimal danger to either party. I see videos of cops doing the pickup and dump on their head technique on teenagers half their size and think "This can't be how it is trained." Please show us how it should be trained.
Do combat sports and self defence stuff. Do both, but do combat sport a bit more
You could always take it in the direction like Bas Rutten did, showing how you can use your environment and apply maximum damage vs controlled damage? I definitely agree that having prior training in a combat sport is an absolute necessity before learning any "self defense" techniques as most of the positions will be familiar to the trainee and they will catch on rather quickly. Another idea is maybe you could show how to use your senses? For example what you should be looking out for, how to notice if your opponent has a knife or not and how to practice that intuition? Just throwing you some ideas hopefully they help cause these will only be useful to people who actually train at a minimum of twice or three times a week in a given combat sport.
I think that every time we consider training "self defense" technique we should consider what we sacrifice and what we gain in comparison to its sport based version and in the end if its worth it.
Going to the hand instead hip after arm drag. Sacrifice: control, Gain: better perception of one hand movement? Decision worth making? I don't know. Worth training: Definitively, as it often also happens in sport context, when someone keeps their elbow close to the body.
Takedown based on oponent error in balancing. Sacrifice: Work only when someone make error in balancing. Gain: Lesser energy expenditure. Worth training: Probably, but as addition, to be able to use it when occasion arise, not instead of more reliable version.
"High side control" position. Sacrifice: Control. Gain: Awareness of surroundings and easy disengage. Worth training: I said yes, i even think its not bad position sport wise, just superseeded by better ones.
Wow. Good summary.
Hi Mike - Thanks for your videos. I travel in the city on public transportation and am trying to educate myself on self-defense. I am 6'2" 240 lbs with some Muay Thai and BJJ training and work out with kettle bells and sandbags. I also carry a concealed 20 oz. hickory-handled framing hammer inside my shorts at the right hip.
I have (so far) not been targeted by street thugs or bus stop zombies but I was riding the light rail recently when what seemed like one hundred middle-aged women in pink breast cancer awareness T-shirts swarmed the train. I was immediately pinned to my window seat by a portlier member of the group while the curved claw of the hammer pressed uncomfortably into my gut - too immobilized to deploy such techniques as gapping and distraction much less even begin to attempt the inverted arm bar demonstrated on your bus fight video.
I believe I had two choices: attempt to quickly exit the train (like a bitch), or submit. I took the second choice, resigning myself to put on my noise-cancelling headphones designed for an autistic child and closing my eyes with my unprotected head leaning sadly against the window, desperately hoping for a speedy trip. This choice was based on my assumption that had the smiling mob become suddenly aggressive and attempted to rob or otherwise molest me it would have been too difficult and tiring to bludgeon each Karen into a sack of pulp, likely a futile effort. As well the train was so filled with stretched pink cotton there was not a millimeter of free space left for a mass shooter to board at the next stop.
Do you have any advice on what I could or should have done differently?
Thanks!
Matt
I really believe that we should practice self defense techniques after learning the basic movements through “for sport” training.
I had the "Is this about fighting or sex positions?" intrusive thought pretty early in the video. I think you were right about both most of the time and I had a whole lot of fun.
"If the bad guy is arm dragging you... you're fucked!" 🤣😆
Martial arts is growing 😊
Very interesting. I may be overthinking, but when I think self defense, what comes to mind is defeating an attacker's actions which will or are causing you harm. If he swings and you go in for a takedown, are you exposing yourself to more risk by being tied up with this guy vs trying to keep him away from you? Is there a difference between defending yourself vs having the legal duty to take someone into custody ? Or is the proper mindset "the best defense is a good offense"? Just putting some questions out there to get your thoughts.
Do you have a video about takedown defense in self defense too?
Bro, a simple cross ends your arm drag…I’m kidding! Your video makes a lot of sense. Love your work!
"Who's got weapons...or hepatitis" LOL
I remember an Eddie Bravo seminar where he was teaching his rubber guard and techniques, and he said
"this stuff all gets better as you get good at the traditional stuff, because you can flow back and forth between the two. You can do my fancy shit a guy defends and you hit him with a surprise kimura, but you've gotta have the basics as well".
I feel like this applies here too, if you are good at the basics you can get fancy. Get real good at an arm drag and you can do arm drag variations.
I would train it, personally. It looks cool, is fun to train, and would be a useful concept to learn. I think if you're a cop or constantly engaging in violence, yeah you should specialize in these things, but if not just do it every now and again so you have the motions down.
It's nice to have the ability to bail instantly.
Great content. Clear explanation and technique. Thank you to you both.
would you be willing to try something?
tickling tactics for fighting and self-defense
I don’t have anything to say because I can’t fight. But that 500 from Revgear will put me in the right direction.
11:35 Mike, you’re doing the Krav Maga sound effects again!
9:46 - To anwer your question to the comments, I try to play jiujitsu with the idea of my partner being able to strike in mind, even if we're not including strikes. I want all my programmed reactions to be valid for actually defending myself.
This looks very specific. I'd rather drill things that will work most of the time on most people. I'm not very good, and I'm small, and this seems like something a bigger dude can just hulk his way out of.
why do you want to control them on the ground though? Are we trying to apprehend them?
you have a huge advantage and a lot more options if you dont follow them to the ground but stay upright after the takedown
if they are a deadly threat then dump them on the ground and stay on your feet, when they are on all fours about to get up soccer kick them in neck or knee them in the head until unconscious. There is a reason those moves are banned in mma, there is a good chance they will end the threat
if they are just some angry or drunk guy then dump them and leave the area fast as you can. or leave before they attack, even better
People often seem to think self defense is some kind of gracie challenge match where they can "win" by maintaining domination of someone until they admit they have been beat or you have proved your technical superiority to the circle of onlookers. Is trying to control someone really that important though when some guys break into your house at night or one tries to drag a woman into the back of a van at night?
I would argue that when we see footage of a grappler holding a criminal until police get there they are not doing self defense, they are being a good samaritan, which is great but a different thing
Train for sport and add small technical exercises for self defense in the end of class. Small changes on what you practiced for sport
wrestlers are so scary, goodness forbid they grab any part of you, you're locked up for life.
I would love to train with you guys one day🙏🏾
From the control position you'd do what you did earlier, run or at least look around. If he's got friends looking to hurt you, then run. If he's got the knife and friends to take the knife to use on you, then hurt the guy on the ground with the elbow control. (badly) Then run or if there's more than two, when you are looking around, look for an exit fast! I once encountered a guy that I put on the ground with a knife and his buddy grabbed the knife and I broke the guy on the ground's elbow and ran to the exit afterward when his buddy grabbed the knife. They were too worried about the guy on the ground with his arm going the wrong way, to chase me right away. By the time I saw them coming out of the bar, I was going down the road. Note to self, Let idiots talking about how badass they are be.
Catch wrestling style takedowns where you focus on smashing the opponent into the ground on the way down was always what I imagined would be the perfect "real" self defense style but I don't think you could teach it as people can't be trusted on aggregate to be able to make the judgement call and a head on concrete is often times game over.