I am in the middle of reading "Don't Think Of An Elephant" .... it is one of the most brilliant things I've ever read. The guy can walk around in your own head like he has a powerful flashlight, illuminate and tell you things about yourself and people in general you never knew. Absolutely the best book that I've read for years, and I read a lot of books.
Life-saving protections ... not job-killing regulations Planetary Hotboxing - not climate change ( my own contribution ) Insurance and contributions - not taxes
We all need to check and see that we have all been raised by false beliefs and we need to accept that, then question them and live by our truest self. He is talking about self awareness/self care and that leads to awareness of others and caring.
What is amazing to me about George Lakoff is that he is so smart, but he has a way to speaking so carefully that you want to listen to him, and as well Lakoff's very existence implies if you are an intelligent, civilized, moral person you should be "progressive", The terms here have all been co-opted by the right. I wonder what Lakoff calls the Left/Liberals/Progressives?
it's easy to see how this works: after the election, what we heard from the center and left was: 'we didn't understand them; we need to listen'. we heard nothing of the sort from the trump voters. in fact, in the 2 months after the election, most trumpist commenters on this site were obscene, insulting, at best crowing.
The view that Lakoff describes Conservatives as having is a military war view, and they are at war with the rest of the country. This kind of thinking always leads to war because it always is inflamed to violence about some group or another and feels righteous enough to employ violence against them or in the service of the wealth controlled by the right people. He describes it in terms of a family, which is interesting, but a family held together by war, violence, policing, punishment, etc. There is a lot of subconscious assumptions in there as well I think.
I do hope Lakoff has more success than the last era (Bush II) when he tried to get Liberals to use his applied moral cognitivism. He even was part of an institute (Rockridge Institute) that tried to communicate this stuff and other progressive issues, which folded due to lack of charitable support.
I would say it's a feedback loop. But it's pretty obvious that if your moral is founded around a "strict father" figure, the Universe being ruled by the *ultimate* strict father, the God of Abraham, makes all too much sense.
An oversimplified generalization. I suspect your knowledge of the variety of the world religions and their followers is neither broad nor deep. (I speak as a far-left liberal/progressive, probably a socialist, but also consider myself deeply spiritual/religious, in a nondogmatic and sophisticated way.)
Well, he is disparaging the idea that being competent makes your morally better. After all he is a college professor and highly competent. He is paid for that. But it doesn't make him better than you. But even more he is disparaging the kind of hierarchy that is not based on competence, like those based on who you love or what colour your skin is.
So, Trump had this "Strict Father Morality", and Hillary tried to counter that with "Nurturing Parent" ... but she did herself in because she could just not be nurturing, especially when she was stacked up against Bernie Sanders who ate her lunch in that regard. Not only that, but look at how Hillary dressed, like some kind of corporate uniform, her bright dayglo read, white and blue suits - is that look like something you would want to associate with or be around. Did she look like she was serious and there to help people. To me she looked like she wanted all eyes and the attention on her. She was an egomaniac, and so in a sense, at least from her outward signals, she was a liar. A liar I voted for and would rather have seen President than Donald Trump, but all kidding aside, she and Bill are Republicans. When you look into these ideas that Lakoff talks about, it almost seems to me that Democrats are so tone deaf and shoot themselves in the foot stupid, compared to what they used to be about, that it is hard for me to think this is real or natural ... I have to think that the top level Democrats are playing Charlie Brown in a big soap opera where the patten they set up in the media is the pattern they get stuck with in society. They cannot get together or discuss the facts of issues, - and in his book "Don't Think Of An Elephant" Lakoff explains the best practices Republicans have been using for 30 years, while Democrats keep tripping over themselves. Can that be real? I think not. No one in the top level politics of this country is ever going to lose or not be making millions every year, so for that price, would you play along and lose the Presidency to be part of the political machine in the United States. Look at the beating Gore and Hillary have taken and they keep showing their faces in the media to remind us all of what losers they are, and by extension the Democrats. Maybe it is time for a new Liberal/Progressive party. If so I think Lakoff ought to be dictator of it for life because he seems to be the only American in the country that understands what is going on.
justgivemethetruth I think it is directly related to the Democratic Party’s inability to stand up and say we definitely break with neoliberal policies and we have a strong economic philosophy to stand in its stead. If the Democrats had been able to do that after the crisis and Obama would have stood strong against the bankers, we would be looking at a different ball game here. But Obama fired his own team of people a month into his first term and brought in Clinton’s guys from the 90’, guys who help create the shit hole tech bubble. So Lakoff is swimming up stream as he teaches these guys how metaphors and framing works. We have to get on the same page with our progressive politics. Are our politicians fully for the people or are they working for the corporations and financial institutions? It is really an either or proposition now, and until we get some people-more than one-to take on the corporations, we are really screwed. Obama really disappointed me when he made his move with the banks. But we have be realistic and rise up together. It is only together, en masse, that we can change the way things are done. We have to make our voices heard and put a stop to the tax cuts for the rich, which will increase taxes for middle and working class Americans. We have to keep calling our representatives; keep going to town hall meetings; and keep reaching out across the internet .
It is a nicety to portray Trump as the strict father, which is a redundant phrase anyway, whereas Trump is attack-orientated, offensive, aggressive and unwilling to accept the US civil sphere of journalism, its normative standards, while tweeting his opinions, as if his tweets are the most important thing! Trump plays the unity trick over and over. At one point he claimed that the US was the people's nation while enacting and encouraging legislation that benefits himself and a ruling plutocratic elite. He has insisted on making enemies of several groups, namely immigrants and refugees, but this sleight of hand conceals how he supports disenfranchisement, low wages, class differences. Basically, he fails to address any real effective concerns that impact on the lives of the people while reducing their access to health care and jobs that provide a living wage. You will never see an increase in the minimum wage from this administration or this conservative congress. Trump is a real estate mogul who will never institute any policies that relieve the people of the ever-increasing property tax burden, or of taxes generally. Housing will continue to be an expensive and crowded problem for the rest of his administration. The real question is whether Trump will re-enact the ploys of the likes of LBJ, Nixon, Reagun, and Bush-Cheney by getting into another disastrous war to prop up his "legacy."
My thoughts exactly. He comes so close to a genuine science-based explanation but his politics clearly colours what can and cannot come out of his mouth. The media doesn't lie? Progressives care about the truth but other people don't? He's made Republicans/Conservatives into the biggest straw-man ever. There is some good advice in there about how to speak to people you disagree with though so I'll take that and move on.
Instead of admitting that he is preachin g behaviourism and marxism where humans are treated as rats or pigeons he calls it cognitive science or cognitive linguistics.
And this, folks, is what a "neural filter" looks like. Lakoff consistently talks about caring for people and ensuring that they are protected. If +Safaa Issa has even watched the video, he has heard what Lakoff says but reports that Lakoff says the opposite. For example, calling him a Marxist is not true. Lakoff is a progressive capitalist. Lakoff argues for protecting people from being poisoned by psychopathic large businesses who fill the air with toxins. Marx argued that workers should violently seize control of their work places and the dispose of the state (very much a "small state" solution). Ensuring we all have clean water to drink and clean air to breath is a fairly straight forward protection we should all enjoy. Trump is removing those protections. Enjoy your dirty water and filthy air.
Go Blair84 Power only goes as far as your love does. Just make love in all forms a psychological phenomena, proving the Nietzschean aphorism that psychology is the queen of the sciences and music as the will to power. What happens? Art draws it's inspiration from life, then life draws it's inspiration from the arts.
I am in the middle of reading "Don't Think Of An Elephant" .... it is one of the most brilliant things I've ever read. The guy can walk around in your own head like he has a powerful flashlight, illuminate and tell you things about yourself and people in general you never knew. Absolutely the best book that I've read for years, and I read a lot of books.
Great. It feels so good to hear someone like Prof. Lakoff speak!
Wonderful and totally fascinating. Thank you Professor Lakoff!
AND Tavis!
Life-saving protections ... not job-killing regulations
Planetary Hotboxing - not climate change ( my own contribution )
Insurance and contributions - not taxes
We all need to check and see that we have all been raised by false beliefs and we need to accept that, then question them and live by our truest self. He is talking about self awareness/self care and that leads to awareness of others and caring.
What is amazing to me about George Lakoff is that he is so smart, but he has a way to speaking so carefully that you want to listen to him, and as well Lakoff's very existence implies if you are an intelligent, civilized, moral person you should be "progressive", The terms here have all been co-opted by the right. I wonder what Lakoff calls the Left/Liberals/Progressives?
Lakoff has spelled out exactly what he calls progressive in his writing. For example: www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html
Thank you Tavis and Professor Lakoff and Slubber O'Toole. There is a lot of information to process here. Will have to return to this again.
Wonderful.
Brillant!!! See other posts which totally proves his point!!!
it's easy to see how this works: after the election, what we heard from the center and left was: 'we didn't understand them; we need to listen'. we heard nothing of the sort from the trump voters. in fact, in the 2 months after the election, most trumpist commenters on this site were obscene, insulting, at best crowing.
The view that Lakoff describes Conservatives as having is a military war view, and they are at war with the rest of the country. This kind of thinking always leads to war because it always is inflamed to violence about some group or another and feels righteous enough to employ violence against them or in the service of the wealth controlled by the right people. He describes it in terms of a family, which is interesting, but a family held together by war, violence, policing, punishment, etc. There is a lot of subconscious assumptions in there as well I think.
I do hope Lakoff has more success than the last era (Bush II) when he tried to get Liberals to use his applied moral cognitivism. He even was part of an institute (Rockridge Institute) that tried to communicate this stuff and other progressive issues, which folded due to lack of charitable support.
Lakoff consulted Democrats in 2006 when they took the House & Senate and then the Presidency in 2008 - he knows what he's talking about.
Paul Goldstein he is demagogue ...social minded parasite ...he just want got paid for talking
Ruth Walker take care about society!!! I dont want that penguin take care about me!! thats fascism or communism
The moral hierarchy that Lakoff talks about is either rooted in or manifested by religion. Religion either causes it or reinforces it.
I would say it's a feedback loop. But it's pretty obvious that if your moral is founded around a "strict father" figure, the Universe being ruled by the *ultimate* strict father, the God of Abraham, makes all too much sense.
An oversimplified generalization. I suspect your knowledge of the variety of the world religions and their followers is neither broad nor deep. (I speak as a far-left liberal/progressive, probably a socialist, but also consider myself deeply spiritual/religious, in a nondogmatic and sophisticated way.)
looks like George really doesn't feel the truth of the other side, he is saying the same things, How is this novel info?
So, am I right that he is disparaging a hierarchy based on competence?
Well, he is disparaging the idea that being competent makes your morally better. After all he is a college professor and highly competent. He is paid for that. But it doesn't make him better than you. But even more he is disparaging the kind of hierarchy that is not based on competence, like those based on who you love or what colour your skin is.
So, Trump had this "Strict Father Morality", and Hillary tried to counter that with "Nurturing Parent" ... but she did herself in because she could just not be nurturing, especially when she was stacked up against Bernie Sanders who ate her lunch in that regard. Not only that, but look at how Hillary dressed, like some kind of corporate uniform, her bright dayglo read, white and blue suits - is that look like something you would want to associate with or be around. Did she look like she was serious and there to help people.
To me she looked like she wanted all eyes and the attention on her. She was an egomaniac, and so in a sense, at least from her outward signals, she was a liar. A liar I voted for and would rather have seen President than Donald Trump, but all kidding aside, she and Bill are Republicans.
When you look into these ideas that Lakoff talks about, it almost seems to me that Democrats are so tone deaf and shoot themselves in the foot stupid, compared to what they used to be about, that it is hard for me to think this is real or natural ... I have to think that the top level Democrats are playing Charlie Brown in a big soap opera where the patten they set up in the media is the pattern they get stuck with in society. They cannot get together or discuss the facts of issues, - and in his book "Don't Think Of An Elephant" Lakoff explains the best practices Republicans have been using for 30 years, while Democrats keep tripping over themselves. Can that be real? I think not.
No one in the top level politics of this country is ever going to lose or not be making millions every year, so for that price, would you play along and lose the Presidency to be part of the political machine in the United States. Look at the beating Gore and Hillary have taken and they keep showing their faces in the media to remind us all of what losers they are, and by extension the Democrats. Maybe it is time for a new Liberal/Progressive party. If so I think Lakoff ought to be dictator of it for life because he seems to be the only American in the country that understands what is going on.
justgivemethetruth I think it is directly related to the Democratic Party’s inability to stand up and say we definitely break with neoliberal policies and we have a strong economic philosophy to stand in its stead. If the Democrats had been able to do that after the crisis and Obama would have stood strong against the bankers, we would be looking at a different ball game here. But Obama fired his own team of people a month into his first term and brought in Clinton’s guys from the 90’, guys who help create the shit hole tech bubble. So Lakoff is swimming up stream as he teaches these guys how metaphors and framing works. We have to get on the same page with our progressive politics. Are our politicians fully for the people or are they working for the corporations and financial institutions? It is really an either or proposition now, and until we get some people-more than one-to take on the corporations, we are really screwed. Obama really disappointed me when he made his move with the banks. But we have be realistic and rise up together. It is only together, en masse, that we can change the way things are done. We have to make our voices heard and put a stop to the tax cuts for the rich, which will increase taxes for middle and working class Americans. We have to keep calling our representatives; keep going to town hall meetings; and keep reaching out across the internet
.
This dude would make a super President
The fact that these two guys speak against Trump speaks volume of their truthfulness.
It is a nicety to portray Trump as the strict father, which is a redundant phrase anyway, whereas Trump is attack-orientated, offensive, aggressive and unwilling to accept the US civil sphere of journalism, its normative standards, while tweeting his opinions, as if his tweets are the most important thing! Trump plays the unity trick over and over. At one point he claimed that the US was the people's nation while enacting and encouraging legislation that benefits himself and a ruling plutocratic elite. He has insisted on making enemies of several groups, namely immigrants and refugees, but this sleight of hand conceals how he supports disenfranchisement, low wages, class differences. Basically, he fails to address any real effective concerns that impact on the lives of the people while reducing their access to health care and jobs that provide a living wage. You will never see an increase in the minimum wage from this administration or this conservative congress. Trump is a real estate mogul who will never institute any policies that relieve the people of the ever-increasing property tax burden, or of taxes generally. Housing will continue to be an expensive and crowded problem for the rest of his administration. The real question is whether Trump will re-enact the ploys of the likes of LBJ, Nixon, Reagun, and Bush-Cheney by getting into another disastrous war to prop up his "legacy."
This discussion is misnomered Trump's challenge to liberals. It's George Lakoff's challenge to liberals.
this is just propaganda twisted with some science & ideology.... shame
It is recognizing propaganda, and how and why it works. Knowing the effect is helpful to avoiding it.
My thoughts exactly. He comes so close to a genuine science-based explanation but his politics clearly colours what can and cannot come out of his mouth.
The media doesn't lie? Progressives care about the truth but other people don't? He's made Republicans/Conservatives into the biggest straw-man ever.
There is some good advice in there about how to speak to people you disagree with though so I'll take that and move on.
stephanHK * propoganda is neutral like pump handle
Instead of admitting that he is preachin g behaviourism and marxism where humans are treated as rats or pigeons he calls it cognitive science or cognitive linguistics.
And this, folks, is what a "neural filter" looks like. Lakoff consistently talks about caring for people and ensuring that they are protected. If +Safaa Issa has even watched the video, he has heard what Lakoff says but reports that Lakoff says the opposite. For example, calling him a Marxist is not true. Lakoff is a progressive capitalist. Lakoff argues for protecting people from being poisoned by psychopathic large businesses who fill the air with toxins. Marx argued that workers should violently seize control of their work places and the dispose of the state (very much a "small state" solution). Ensuring we all have clean water to drink and clean air to breath is a fairly straight forward protection we should all enjoy. Trump is removing those protections. Enjoy your dirty water and filthy air.
An obvious acolyte of Lou Andreas-Salomé. Jordan B Peterson would rock this guy.
Hey, you can name names! Awesome!
Go Blair84
Power only goes as far as your love does. Just make love in all forms a psychological phenomena, proving the Nietzschean aphorism that psychology is the queen of the sciences and music as the will to power. What happens? Art draws it's inspiration from life, then life draws it's inspiration from the arts.
Christopher Epperson Could you 'slpain that?