Breaking Ms Marvel; an inadvertent moment in comics
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2024
- Looking more closely at Civil War 2, a moment that seemed to detour Ms. Marvel off track from what felt like a promising new character's rise.
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I’ve always felt the biggest problem with Ms. Marvel was the fact that they just really didn’t know what to do with her past her origin, which is why they’ve just been rebooting her, trying again and again to see what sticks and whatever.
She just need a good run.
Thats because she makes a better Skrull spy turned human sympathizer than an Inhuman.
Inhumans are *dead-ends* - all their stories were better suited to them living on the Blue Side of the Moon, interacting with the Fantastic Four, or out in space having Royal Cosmic Empire battles
As Zack once said: "How long you can bend a hero before you'll break him?"
That's my main problem with how Kamala & Carole have been written the last 10 years -- they say & do things a hero doesn't say or do. Then there's the constant reboots...
People give Brian Reed's run flack for the tie-ins and art changes, but by the end of fifty issues, it feels earned.
"Being the best of the best is not really a goal. Being the best you can be...that's doable. That's possible for anybody if they put their mind to it."
Carol's philosophy in a nutshell: Don't fail at being the ideal. Fail at being the best you can be, so when you succeed, you inspire others to try and do the same.
@@BakumanLakuman I also enjoyed Reed's run. But I wish those Event tie-ins didn't happen.
@@B.B.Digital_Forest Same. Reed did a great job integrating his story into the tie-ins as much as he could so it wouldn't take away from the story, but I'm sure that had those tie-ins not been there, that run would have done much better. It's still a top 3 run for Carol for me.
Reed
DeConnick
Bendis
I wonder if there was any Editorial pushback from having Kamala more forcefully reject/stand up to Carol post-Civil War 2. Because even after that horrible event that made Captain Marvel into a clear villain, Marvel went right back into "She's the most beloved hero in the UNIVERSE!' mode.
If they allowed Carol Danvers to appropriately suffer the social consequences of her actions, and we saw Kamala seeing her once-beloved idol being dragged through the mud, that would have been a foundational moment for that character.
Instead, it was kind of just waved away like an accidental fart.
Just wait till the movie gets closer and she becomes a main character in a Marvel event and she saves everyone. GOD!! I hated that Ms. Marvel's book actually has her apologize to this cancerous character for killing Ironman and imprisoning her friend.
That’s why I agree with Jim Shooter‘s end of the Phoenix saga: you can not make a hero the villain and then just return to „it never happened“. Either write some consequences or let it be.
@@davidgantenbein9362 Yeah, I hate it when they pass the buck on fallen heroes like Phoenix. But for the past fifteen years or so I wonder if they're just propping up these characters to be mouth pieces of a hypothetical argument instead of acting like real people. The Dystopian Future is here - today!
It also make it hard to ignore that story, when her friend has prosthetics because of what happened IN that story.
Yup, I think I saw him wearing them in the new champions book while she was berating him or something
Geoff Johns on Green Lantern: Rebirth was a great example of repairing a broken character. Hal Jordan had murdered his friends, eliminated the Green Lantern Corps, and even successfully destroyed the universe. And Geoff Johns redeemed him of all of it without erasing any continuity.
Completely agree! Tho I wouldn’t say he successfully destroyed the universe (unless you mean convergence or something which I don’t remember but in zero hour, he didn’t really succeed in his plan)
@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 GL/GA was pre-crisis and had some good moments but yeah, Hal was kinda ignored and messed after crisis (looking at you, arisia) which I’m guessing is why GL was cancelled for a few years at that time. Disregarding the writer and his crimes, the early 90s GL series before Kyle had some great moments IMO.
@@kenlsten4651 Hal did destroy all of time and the universe in Zero Hour, save for a few heroes surviving outside time. Before Hal could create his own new universe, the heroes used Damage to make a new big bang, creating their own new universe that duplicated the original one (with some imperfections resulting in changes to the timeline)
@Matt Moylan, hard disagree. Johns just hand waived away all the impact of continuity just to bring back a dead meme. Johns is a talented writer but much of his writing is also responsible for the death of the DCU. Bringing back Hal and Barry were born terrible mistakes, and it is not surprising that the New 52 happened shortly after. The DCU as it existed became untenable.
Here's a bad idea: Power Pack, but they're teens, and Jack gets into 4chan culture, but Julie is into LGBTQ culture, so they fight, and then one of them dies, and the other 2 are all depressed, and 1 commits suicide, and then Marvel ensures that Power Pack can never be written ever again. The story will be written by Tom King.
Hahahaha that’s hilarious, and you picked the perfect writer, because if Tom knows how to write one thing, it’s a depressing story.
I can’t tell if your writing knowing that Julie’s has been written as gay sometimes before or not.
That I would've read :D
And jack would be the one to die like Tom king killed Vision, Vincent and Vision didn't even try to reboot him or bring him back. But when Viv "died" he manage to create a replica real quick
Not a big deal, if there’d been real remorse, and a repudiation of Captain Marvel. But you’ve got two sacred cow characters who can’t be anything other than the awesomest ever.
i know it is quite off topic but do anybody know a good site to stream newly released tv shows online ?
@Miles Isaac I use FlixZone. You can find it on google =)
@Raiden Heath definitely, have been using FlixZone for since april myself =)
@Raiden Heath Thanks, I went there and it seems like a nice service :D I really appreciate it !!
@Miles Isaac Glad I could help :)
I think the point where I felt Kamala Khan was starting to break was her appearance in All-New, All-Different Avengers. First of all, it was too early in the character's lifespan to be an Avenger (Spider-Man didn't become an Avenger until the 90's) and the writer didn't succeed in carrying the charm the character had during G. Willow Wilson's run. The events of Civil War II was the final straw that broke the character.
Hasn’t Naomi beat that? I had only just heard of her before now being in the *Justice* *League.*
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- Naomi started out in Young Justice before joining the Justice League and she debuted in 2019 and joined the league in 2021 while Kamala started out in 2014 and joined the Avengers in 2015, so there's a one year distance meaning Kamala joined the Avengers quicker than Naomi joined the Justice League.
@@Elementa2006 Oh wow, one year? I didn’t know it was that quick, that’s nuts. It used to be a big deal to get onto these teams, they’d need to earn it.
Also, what you're talking about with the prison storyline is exactly how I felt when they introduced that into the Marvel cinematic universe. Civil War ruined Tony more than Age of Ultron, and that did some damage
The prison storyline wasn't in the MCU, unless it was in Captain Marvel or Endgame (I tapped out after infinity war)... If it was I'm wrong but Captain America Civil War was not CVII. And yes it hurt Tony Starks image as a very flawed hero into a complete dick.
@@jbbrolic The prison for super-heroes was a plot point in Civil War, and that movie ended with Cap perpetrating an off-screen jailbreak. That's where Infinity War finds Cap's crew, on the lam from the international authorities.
@@MathewDRhys o ok memory fail, good to know.
Want to hear something frightening? It hasn’t been 20 years since Avengers 200. It has been 40.
She gave birth to her boyfriend?!? Thanks for squeezing lemon juice into that paper cut.
It's hilariously terrible. And by Jim Shooter no less. I think I read on his blog that they were at a deadline and kind of desperate for a story tried to throw something together last minute.
I think you are perfectly right when you called it a YA type comic. I had given it a try since I was still a fan of carol from Brian Reed's run, but it just felt....too juvenile for me. Like I was certainly not the intended audience. It didn't help that she felt like a forced character and instantly got her own title comic instead of leading her into the universe.
I think it's funny that Captain Marvel 2's title doesn't even have her name. It feels to me like they can't trust her to carry her own movie. I also absolutely hate that the movies are trying to wipe away certain comic continuity because they KNOW people don't read the comics.
I actually enjoyed reading the early (current version) Ms. Marvel stories because they were off the beaten path of the Marvel Universe. The stories read like a cross between Year One Spider-Man and DC's 'Mazing Man. I guess whimsical is the word to describe them. Entire issues were devoted to stopping villains so weak that any one of us would probably prevail against them, and that was refreshing. But then Marvel had to make the character a big deal, and that ruined everything that originally made her special. So Marvel managed to ruin TWO Ms. Marvels at about the same time.
They've never gotten past hank pym punching Janet but no one ever talks about the time Spider-Man punched Mary Jane.
Probably because both the Clone Saga and Spider-Man 3 are so terrible that people pretend they don't exist.
May be Mary Jane & Janet had it coming.
What you describe as the person who stopped reading Ms. Marvel after the prison story because “it just doesn’t feel right anymore” is what i was personally - anecdotally ofcourse - from a lot of people in my life after Star Wars : Last Jedi came out.
The people liked Star Wars, didn’t love it, didn’t spend their time reading/talking about it online, just generally liked it and would go out to see it. After that film, they just lost interest in the whole thing.
In my opinion, that Ms Marvel storyline was the nail to the coffin.
For me, I get the impression that everybody at Marvel got cold feet when they realized that their "muslim role model for young girls superhero" was set up, since issue 1, to kiss a non-muslim boy, Bruno and probably rebel against her traditional family, like, you know, a every teenager.
But the problem was she was not white and/or westerner to treat her like their "normal" characters.
So they did a lot of spinning of wheels, with Bruno's manic pixie dream girl Mike and the Pakistani superhero that she meets that did not quite work out.
Plus, good storytelling demanded have her fangirly/please everybody personality take some hits when her idols tell her to "go home girl" before she proved her worth. Instead, her average arc is "something happens, Kamala kind of fails, her friends give her emotional support, the kids throw a protest, she wins".
And having the falw of being a fangirl and wanting to be liked she should have been tricked into following a supervillain and doing something wrong before that issue, instead she was praised with admiration since day one. Then she got into something bigger and she kind of screwed up in her own title.
Add the fact that she never had some iconic villain (I mean a spider-man d-lister gave her a run for her money at some point) and you can see how the Civil War issues showed her to be an ineffective hero and people really don't want to read that.
Also, they had so many Kamala titles (like Avengers, Champions etc) that it was hard to follow the in-between continuity and the arc with the Inhumans (that was interesting and a source for conflict) was abandoned.
So yes, tl:dr they had a great character and did a lot of things about her wrong. The end.
Civil War 2 must be the single most damaging story Marvel have ever done. So many characters got damaged by it.
I did not know that Falcon being captain America had been floated around since the 90’s. Thy is very interesting
From my personal observation, for some very weird reason, a majority of modern comic writers (and editors) have this weird fixation on breaking characters of any “lister” ranking (Examples: A-Lister, B-Lister, C-Lister, etc.) and then oversee that they remain broken for as long as possible.
"She wasn't created as a character, she was created as a statement." Thanks Sana Amanat, you wonder why your character tanked out. LOL
Yea it’s a total joke.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- She's the shining beacon as to why Marvel Comics is in the toilet flushing away. No concept of writing a character properly, or having any growth.
@@WhatDoesEvilMean REALLY??
Imo the first series is more of a „what if Sana invented Spider-Man“. I would consider her a character in that first series (the one with the highest and most stable sales numbers in Perch‘s analysis). But I think they did convert her into a statement and hence into a failed character, which was the worst decision possible for the character, but even for the „statement“.
Imo they should have kept her in her own series and not done any crossover and events before the character is fully hedged. I would have used „proper rogues gallery“ as one of the measurements for a fully developed character. A brand new character should stay the f... away from events before it met its Doc Ock and Green Goblin.
PS: I really don’t know why they didn’t use the old Warbird look/powers of Carol as a base for a proper foil to Kamala. Hell, her first enemy was a cloner, he could have made an evil Carol clone.
@@WhatDoesEvilMean Have any proof of this?
Ms Marvel show will try to be Marvels Stargirl ( which is a totally underrated. DC and WB once again squandering a great opportunity).
I want to give Marvel credit (something tells me if an editor wasn't asleep behind the wheel they would have most likelly nixed the prison bit to preserve Ms. Marvel's Brand), because that moment was the first time I felt Kamala Khan was an actual Marvel Superhero, in that she made a poor decision to blindly trust an adult role model that resulted in someone close to her being permenantly injured and that chip and guilt propels her to be a better hero. The problem is that this comes about four years into being a squeaky clean, Disney ready teen character so the turn was just so jarring and as Perch mentions, really breaks the character. But Marvel would never try anything as risky with characters like Miles and Riri; which is why those character's storylines are just so boring.
It's the same thing for me but with X-23, she isn't the same character after Bendis put her in All New X-Men and later Marvel demoted her to be Wolverine, she goes from Marvel's version of Agent 47 to a genetic teenage girl, which is also why I will never acknowledge Tom Taylor's writing.
I still don't know how Kamala is going to work. Considering the movie version of Danvers was gone for at least 15 years, is always in space even after the snap, and only comes back to Earth rarely, the series and her inclusion in the movie makes zero damn sense to me.
I don’t think they’ve shy’d away from her being an inhuman. She was a member of the inhuman based Secret Warrior, and the Avengers video game show she got her powers from Terrigen mists.
Ms Marvel is probably the perfect, platonic ideal of "What is wrong with comic books today"-
*Her character origin is a mess, and she reads like a VERY bad fan-fic self insert character. She's there to Make A Point In A Inclusive Way...and, they also didn't dig into the mental quirk of her being a superhero and a fairly obedient practicing Islamic female.
*Her power-set goes weird in far too many ways. She's basically Elastigirl or a female Reed Richards without the super-science backup.
*She's never really "challenged," not on the scale of anybody like Peter Parker or even Tony Stark.
*She's pushed into levels of handling things far too soon for her history. She's wasn't Avenger-level material when she got dropped into "All New, All Different Marvel," and might not even be Young Avengers material.
*Her writing was hit-or-miss, and almost always "miss." I can recall some of her plotlines, and the biggest thing I can think of was that she wasn't supposed to have been exposed to the Mists, her brother was. Oh, and one of her villains was a super-genius parrot that built a machine to power his robots by the angst of "marginalized" teenagers.
(And, no, I am NOT MAKING THAT UP.)
*Civil War II...was not her most shining moment. She got a lot of grief, it was deserved, and she was EXTREMELY easily forgiven for several very bad pre-meditated acts.
*Most of the time, she's good when there's other PEOPLE in the story. She worked far too well with Loki when he showed up, and that says something sad.
Honestly? Character needs to be retired for a while. A couple of years, to let the worst of her issues fade and for her to get a chance to have something approaching a clean slate. But, the MSU show is going to bring her-and her history-back up front and center and that helps nobody at all.
Any chance we might get one of these for Carol as well, Perch?
When this character’s show has about 10% of the normal Disney+/Marvel audience viewership, the 10 yr+ easy ride for Sana Amanat will come to a smooth halt.
I hope you are right but somehow I doubt it. She isn't leaving until she wants to...she's insulated
@@shotsavereboundscore oh it wont be “this show was a bad idea” it’ll be first celebrated, then gaslighting the importance of a woman having a superhero tv show, then then then,
It’ll be the writers fault or something else, and then Sana will take some dream job opportunity thru politically affiliated friends to work on a campaign or something else similar
Too optimistic, that b7tch would have to cost Disney billions for there to be just a 1% chance of her being fired.
You're probably good at compartmentalizing because you're an X-Men fan lol
i think one possible solution to her as a character is to separate herself completly from the name ms.marvel and create a new hero alter or just keeping her civilian name and rebuild her from zero and actually caring to make her at least a bit relatable.
I just don't believe this character was very well thought out from the start. So her powers are to transform into a somewhat morphable, somewhat stretchable, somewhat inflatable, air dancing tube-girl with big fists? It seems the writers can't really decide what to do with her. She works out better as part of a teen group than as a solo character, IMO.
The character has been destroyed since Civil War 2 when you have her side with Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel was clearly wrong and do All New All Different where she's a an Avenger it's like how were fast tracking a character that was a small character and being charming and YA should've stayed there but Marvel couldn't let it be they had to destroy the character and forced her and now people really isn't feeling her.
I think comics and their characters can and should be better, but some characters are just worth less the cost of getting them trademarked, copywritten and printed. Oh and let's not forget the time.
Honestly, the question should be wether anyone would care once comics are in the 5~6 dollar mark.
This will not be a popular opinion in Perch's comment section, but the prison camp story was a natural growth of Kamala's character arc as I saw it. It WAS wrong on all kinds of levels, however, to continue writing her own book with her as some kind of hero (and bear with me here). Since she jumped at the call and was super inexperienced, it was only natural she might get too caught up in the whole truth and justice thing and cross lines more jaded, experienced heroes stay well away from in the name of justice. What should've happened at this point instead was all of Marvel's superhero community cutting her off due to the transgression, S.H.I.E.L.D. putting a massive price on her head, various supervillains courting her, her rejecting them all outright at first, but eventually buckling under it all and becoming a supervillain herself.
That could apply to most heroines nowadays sadly. Consider Captain Marvel or America Chavez.
@@kyshowman6847 That's what happens when you write the "good guys" as concepts and refuse to let them be human people.
Interesting to hear a different point of view on this. When I read that story, I saw it as a continuation of the the "how to be a hero" theme of Ms. Marvel. In fact, my favorite crossovers between Ms and Captain Marvel always turn into Ms Marvel realizing that she wants to be a more Spider-man-like hero than what Captain Marvel is. That is why I am a little worried about what they are going to do in the Captain Marvel sequel. I don't know if they will have the guts to tear Carol down like this.
Perch really nailed a point midway here about how Ms Marvel seemed closest to YA.
Ive been saying this alot for yrs, almost all of what Marvel has been throwing their confidence behind is better suited for a YA Marvel Manga line. Thicker shorter book on newsprint quality paper, simpler art style, color only the first few pages of each chapter.
And keep those damn characters *out* of main continuity. I’m not kidding, IF Marvel had the stones to make an event called Mitosis where the Marvel Universe split into two discordant worlds, they’d possible sell record books during a mass event Event.
Yeah, but the people complaining usually complain rather loudly...
I'm surprised Disney bothered to show all 6 episodes of Falcon and Winter Soldier....based on social media, everybody hates it, they all turned off at the same minute. Maybe more people liked it than what social media reveals
For Ms Marvel, I've only read Ahmed's run, which I enjoyed. I don't think I've read her fight against predictive criminals. Glad I missed it.
Sometimes, Fandom can collectively sweep things under the rug.
But part of the reason we read characters from the big 2 is because of the long history of stories. But those stories have to be painting the same character. Of course a character needs to develop and change, but within guidelines, or explain why.
I do like it when a storyline goes back and explains past goofs.
Roy Thomas was into fixing and trying things together. Just finished Thor and The Eternals Celestial Saga.
Fixing a past story is better than trying to ignore it.
I enjoy the look of the character and her nature when introduced, however I wish they would have focused on new characters even setting them in the ultimate multiverse.
They easily could have focused on teenage heroes and had that sandbox to test the new characters. The sad part now is that the industry is all but dead and they don’t have that freedom to experiment.
I don’t have a lot of faith in these writers, but If I did, it would have been nice to see new marvel characters that tap into that anime energy.
The premise behind the character Kamala Khan was a great idea, but there was so much that was forced with the character that just made the character unlikeable. If the folks editing and writing for this character had chosen a direction and a single voice for the character verses a constant change of mindset. She could have been far more endearing/entertaining to paying readers had the character been given either a more Power Pack/Peter Parker direction, or going the route of a Vertigo/Image title where the character has more real-world adventures if a small amount of non-preaching social commentary is to be used sparingly.
That anecdote really hitting me hard.
Happens to PENTY of characters over the years.
Honestly, I was one of those people who didn't mind that storyline that much.
Kamala being absolutely starstruck by Carol and basicly just agreeing with her idol but regretting it later isn't really out of character. It might've needed a better wrap up but generaly I was fine with it.
Really, after looking into later Frank Miller Batman I have a completly different opinion of what actually constitutes breaking a character. I mean jesus... first blowing then plowing... that just goes way beyond breaking a character. That's atomizing them.
For the Disney+ show I really hope they base the writing more on the comic and not on that Avengers game with her. She just comes off as way younger than she's supposed to be there and it's weird.
I save money when they do comics like this... because I don't get angry... I just don't buy them...
I thought Ms Marvel had so much potential but then I remembered a review from the prison story I instantly got turned off to the character. It doesn’t help that I find Sana Amanat a little creepy. How do you think they can fix Ironman?
Hank Pym is forever broken in the comics.
Comic book writers expect their readers to reset their perception about a character whenever there's a new run or something.
I'm sorry, no. That's not gonna happen. Readers that are passionate enough about comics remember canon and continuity. You set your stories in the same universe as previous materials, you have to live with them.
Any chance you could do a video about the problem with comics double shipping cause I found a problem no one talks about with them
Wow. I know a lot reviewers make a big deal about the ugly/not-very-super-hero-is art for this series, but after actually looking at it....wow.
Love Ms marvel. A refreshingly realistic character compared to all the other new characters created. However yeah, you're right, the civil war story is a low point. However the rest of the Wilson's run is great too.
Erik Larsen is quite the expert on “making a character NOT what they are”
... My name is Erik Larsen. Oh dear...
I loved the first run of Ms. Marvel as well as the first run of Sam Alexander Nova, subsequent runs of both characters would decrease in... quality? The art continued to be good even when the artists changed.
I agree with the cousin. I read some random issues to understand the nee character and the Secret War was a BIG TURN OFF to Kamala, Carol and others...it derailed the character as you say but I just dismissed it all because there is SO MUCH other stuff.
I figure I hear about something good if and when it gets done and catch up then
I miss Rememder and Jet too
I miss when Hickman had freedom to write
I miss Patriot and Allen Heinberg
Bendis events when he doesn't care kind suck
I recall around the time of the carol danvers predictive prison bs a new champions run started and that's where serious/bossy/annoying/preachy kamala khan was born (that's Cyke's job).
Remember when they had Hank Pym slap the Wasp? Could never like the character after that.
Late in the game, but it's hard to keep Up with your output. But you made my day anyway:
"I'll call them assholes"
so good.
I think people like the IDEA of Kamala Khan more than the character herself. Why does she have stretchy powers? All of the other Captain Marvel legacy characters have energy powers in some form or another, even Noh-Var generates energy weapons from his body. She's playing against the brand's type to prop up someone else, has to be an icon to new generation of readers, represent Muslim-Americans and they never gave any space to just be herself or to show the reader who she is.
I wouldn’t say those first Ms Marvel comics were good. They just seems like a bad Spider-Man remake, but without the costume, struggle, or rogues gallery. She also seems like character that was put together by a committee. Like you can almost feel the committee thinking behind everything. She should be a mutant given the original Ms. Marvel’s history with the X-Men; but it’s 2013 and Fox owns the movie rights and Marvel is in the middle of lessening the X-Men to make way for The Inhumans as the new X-Men...even have a movie in the works which will become a tv show that’s gets called a miniseries because it didn’t make it past one season. Marvel also needs a new Spider-Man, it’s 2013, Sony has the Spider-Man film rights, a deal with Marvel Studios is a few years off, and Sony is looking to have a whole Spider-Man universe of movies...some of which still happen, a couple don’t.
The Marvel’s Avengers game from last year that Ms. Marvel is the star of brings up her being an Inhuman a lot. Although that started development like four years ago, when the Disney buyout of Fox wasn’t a sure thing. Funnily, the story in that Avengers game is basically an X-Men story; only it’s Inhumans instead of Mutants, MODOK and AIM instead of Trask and Trask Industries, and the final boss is the most Sentinel looking Kree Sentry I think there’s ever been.
10:40
You know what I want to see that story arc. It would be so out of place it would be funny.
The Fascist Carol Danvers and Kamala Khan made both of them straight-up villains in my eyes.
So breaking a character is the storytelling equivalent to being off-model?
I vaguely remember this run... It was written like propaganda for preteens; with grey skinned tumblr art characters. Just awful...
P.s. didn't ms. Marvel imprison her only "friend" in this?
Perch no! Can't survive a month without you at this point. Just take days here and there!
There's a lot of characters that publishers try to push, and they never gain traction. That's because you need a storyteller and artist to get behind a character and produce a great story. If publishers would let writers pick characters they want and pitch story arcs, it ought to work better. I think this is sort of what's going on, sure, but the editors / publishers are not really committed to quality.
The Miss Marvel I see in your video is a superhero who doesn't understand what's going on, doesn't know what she should, doesn't have the slightest idea of what justice is, doesn't believe in human beings. In short, I understand why she can't be a hero. I can't relate with her. She is just going down and down and has not reach the legendary rock bottom where you can push yourself back to the surface because she is powerful. The Captain Marvel in that run is an actual villain. She reminds me of Doctor Doom, the arch-enemy of the Fantastic Four. He was better as a human than Captain Marvel when she appears. The only thing she has is powers.
Not only does it ruin Ms. Marvel, it ruins Captain Marvel. I seriously question the leadership qualities of someone who puts a young inexperienced superhero in charge of a quasi-legal prison. Its like if Tom Cruise put Anna Kendrick in charge of a prison in Minority Report 2. This story would have been perfect for say someone like Cyclops, or some other older boy scout-esque character, but not Ms. Marvel.
See also: Luke Skywalker.
Time for Ultimate Ms. Marvel?
I think most of the initial issues with Ms Marvel were:
1) False Advertising: presented as an action/adventure series, actually a 2nd rate teen romance YA book, by openly activist writer.
2) Character appears to be Mary Sue analog for new Marvel CEO, except Ms Marvel is poor new immigrant. Sana Amanat's family is Noveau Riche milliionaires, with openly Woke politics (direct family ties to Hillary Clinton, Brother made millions on stock market & financed the Twilight movies).
3) Kamala Khan comes from the most diverse city in US in suburban New Jersey, but it's portrayed as hotbed of white supremacy in the comic.
Plus: everything you talk about
Does she have a rogues gallery at all?
I'm replying to this video less than 2 minutes in, but face it, Perch, you're not going to take June off. You're too enamored of your own thoughts -- and that's a good thing! I enjoy your thoughts! That's why I view most of your videos (even though the recent dayglow opening isn't to my liking). Maybe we'll see previously-recorded videos during June, but we're not going to see a Perchless June. (Besides, wouldn't that foul up your wife's goal of a million subscribers within, what was it, the end of the year?)
Yeah Axis was horrible and took the wind out of the sails of Sam being Captain America.
MCU fans are definitely their own vain of comics fandom, in that they’ve not really cared much about or read the current comics. This is kind of what makes it frustrating when they reference Civil War 2 and don’t point out its problems.
For Marvel and I guess DC with the DCEU fandom. You have 2 different branches of fandom that are dedicated to the same thing, while at the same time it’s not.
It’s a little hard to read what your main point was here, though this is what I could take from it. It’s kind of sucks that the comics community is like this, though I guess that’s just the way it is.
In terms of sale no female character sells really well but the sad thing is Kamala was the top selling for a few years. Her book isn't really geared towards mainstream readers it's more for potential female fans and young girls. Most of her readers tend to be young girls.
As far as Carol goes she's not a bad character has an interesting power-set but she's been miss handled. Her runs pre-Civil War 2 had a cult following. Yet people can't let it go of the Civil War 2. I find it strange cause Tony did worst than Carol when he was the main villian of his civil war 2. Besides her current run I haven't enjoyed her runs in a long time. Tho Marvel should have her in space much more often.
Oh great now i remember this story exists. It would had been better if kamala actually oposed the idea before it affected her personally.
Atleast it wasnt as bad as ignited
At the time the comic came out I didn't have much interest in the character in large part because of the name she chose. I could get the fangirl hero worship part of it, but Ms. Marvel? Why in the world would anyone chose to be a fangirl of a hypocritical fascist? Also given how they had just come off of a cw I wondered why the government didn't just grab Karmala and throw her into a Camp Hammond type school and subject her to the type of brutal, sadistic training that they gave some of the other kids, giving them supervillains as teachers no less. So I didn't really follow it, and I only heard about the prison for kids thing, but again it seemed to fit the character of the marvel universe. How anyone could be a bright, naive and optimistic person in the mu with the storylines they had was a puzzle to me that I didn't want to solve. It'd be like trying to stage a musical comedy behind the Iron Curtain during the cold war.
But from what you describe this has all the hallmarks of what marvel has become. When you make a mistake the best way to deal with it is to face it, understand why you made the mistake and then do your best to fix it.
Marvel doesn't do that. DC doesn't either, but this more about marvel. The writers and editors (who ever makes the decisions) don't have the strength of character to face their mistakes or deal with them. They are the type of people who would run into a parked car and then speed off and pretend it didn't happen. Trouble is the car still has the damage done and as much as they ignore it, everyone can see it. So they rely on time, taking as the basis what you mentioned about Avengers 200. But they don't rely on the natural flow of time, they try to speed it up, telling everyone who brings it up to ignore the past because the stop watch has moved past the point where the story matters anymore.
This is very much like the fascism that they've had the characters embrace in so many of the storylines of the past fifteen years. "What we say matters, matters. What we tell you to ignore, you should ignore because we say so."
So Karmala is broke or damaged, they'll never admit that, so they can never fix it and a part of the fandom (like myself) who only know about the character on the periphery of comic book awareness, will always think of her as the kid who ran the junior league fascist, busting into peoples homes to arrest people for things they hadn't done and throwing them in jail for an indefinite time, just like her idol. The show won't change that. Nothing will change it but a front level, well written storyline that deals with it. That storyline can never be written by the people at marvel now. Even if they have the talent, which I seriously doubt, they don't have the will to do it.
‘Miz’ Marvel. Not ‘Miss’. Let’s get it right guys. ;)
I'll make sure to tell everyone it's just a small part of my character history when I kidnap, cripple, and kill some people. Write it down. It's barely a page.
This wouldn’t have been a problem for Kamala’s Character if that dumb Marvel Event never existed.
Hashtag stop doing Events Gang
I thought the first volume was fine. After that, I spent my money on other comics.
That Future Crime Prison was only the start of her downfall into constantly being written out of character. By the time the 2016 Election happened, the book took a whole ass issue just to lecture readers on the evils of people that vote differently than you. Ms. Marvel has always had a level of naiveness to her but she sounded flat out stupid in this issue, shocked that people would dare vote for the other guy. I quit the book in disgust shortly there after. She was just not a superhero to me anymore.
that ms. marvel comic is more than enough to show why people are just eating up western comic and animation these days
and that's not even the worst the western comic industry has to offer
I read the first volume because my Mom borrowed it from her school's library. The "humor" made me cringe into a ball.
Marvel did not do one single character conversion especially involving race swapping, they announced the All New All Different which cleared the way to make these big changes and it of course must have felt very unusual to reader however did it work? It seems to have worked fine.
Wouldn't mind you taking a break on June, always good to take some off-time. As for the topic
Yeah, I feel you about Falcon. This pains me in that exact same way, and in a very cynical manner I'll say.
Liking dead characters seems better at this point, at least they can't be twisted like this
A profound difference among some Superheros and people in general is a desire to PREVENT CRIME vs a desire to PROSECUTE CRIME, with the former leading to forming an authoritarian fascist state designed to keep everyone safe forever and the later leading to a world where criminals KNOW they WILL be brought to justice but only AFTER damage has been done.
Yeah...your voice gives you away every time. I wouldn't care who the artist is...if he decided that Surfer needed "heels" I'd demote him to drawing "Missed Marvel"! My ONLY problem...only problem was that they (Marvel) gave her a name that wasn't hers to use. Ms. Marvel was one of my favourite characters, Carol Danvers. I liked everything about MY Ms. Marvel and not only that, but it gave us Captain Marvel, which is a rotten character and is being shoved down our throats. When I find a character, I find that I "latch on" to said character and they took her away. Then to add salt to the wound, they just GAVE the name away to some nobody that for all intents and purposes looked ridiculous. A kid wearing a Chaos awful costume who came outta nowhere! That was the mistake in my opinion because it was the exact same if "SLIPKNOT" went years playing crazy WIK metal and then BANG! became a classic jazz band! It would be wrong and it was wrong. You are indeed correct, Mr. Perch (thank you so much for answering my email) Kamala Khan wasn't a bad character. I realize her powers aren't a direct rip of Reed Richards, but on the surface they were (especially to start) Her powers are...weirdly complex (if I have even an inkling about how they work) She was made to be a "happy go lucky" type of character. A very good character to interest a new reader. I think she fell in with that group of less important or less serious characters (certainly not an Inhuman which would suggest she's hangin' out with "The Royal Family" N stuff!) Marvel has ZERO patience. Kamala Khan wasn't allowed to "pay her dues". I can't even remember C.W.2 (because it was a hot mess) so, if you say that is where Marvel "broke" the character then it's "jake" with me. I mean even in comics you can't rightly promote an Army Private to a 5 Star General in six months!! You mentioned Spider-man. That was the path she was to take. Spider-man was never a leader or even a team guy (except marvel team up) and that's why I NEVER liked him on any official team...ok, I didn't mind his association with the F.F cause it just fit. But being a card-carrying avenger...pffft!
POPPYCOCK!! The world of Peter Parker is only so big and when you "BALLOON" it, he is spread too thin and it ruins all the story and continuity of his world. Prolly the same thing with Kamala Khan. They spread her too thin and took away all the enduring nuances that made her a likable character. Anyways...I blabbed too long and no one will read this anyways, so have a nice type a day! \m/
The problem as I see it is that the 2nd series was full of pointless arcs the 1st one was a an ad for Mark waid avangers then the horrible shit from civil war 2 and after that I dont know why but basically all following arcs are just meh followups from the 1st series. Really nothing mayor or original happen after civil war 2 for the rest 20+ issues. So even if civil war 2 did not happen I think the 2nd series would be remember as a meh follow up.
Almost like Marvel/Disney realized it wouldn't be a good PR move to call their first major Muslim hero "inhuman"...
"PEW! PEW! PEW!"?
SMH....
YOU HEARD IT HERE, PERCH TM! OLD MAN PERCH TM IS ANNOYED AT TOPICS! BREAKS CHARACTER AND PLEDGES NO VIDEOS IN JUNE! VIEWERS WANT VIDEO OF HIS WITHDRAWAL ON JUNE 3! PLEDGE CIVIL WAR IN THE FALL OF PERCH TM!
I think Kamala had potential.
I don't really think it's as big of a problem as you make it out to be. I always just saw her arc during that time as character development. She's a young hero who loses a bit of innocence and faith in her heroes. And it affects her moving forward. She ends up quitting the avengers around that time I think too to start the champions because of flaws she perceives in the way the Avengers operate.
In comics this where the "fangirl" aspect diminishes because of her experiences. And its always so irritating when people reduce her to the fangirl, because she truly hasn't been that in years.
Good video. Still not interested in Ms. Marvel. If you need a break take a break. You’ve done a lot already.
This isn't one of the characters I've ever been interested in. Her giant stretchy hands gross me out. I've never really liked Mr Fantastic's power set either and I don't see how this is any different. I don't like her costume but there's a character reason for it, so whatever. She's an original character so as far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with her. If people like her, great and if they don't also great, I don't care.
Well theres more than one problem centered around the characters made in the time Ms. Marvel.
Like what? Aside from the forced inclusion of her everywhere and undeserved place in the avengers. I can't think of any other reason
Name something more prevelant in comics than events ruining characters.
There were a few stpries I stopped following because of Civil War 2. It'a why I've stayed away from comics overall for the past while because it put such a BAD taste in my mouth and I've yet to get it out. It's only recently I've started to come back to it and care again. It was such a miserable dour slog that sucked so much joy out of Marvel's heroes for me.
THIS!!!
I'm all for different cultures and backgrounds for new characters and stories, as long as they're handled well from competent creators. A muslim superhero sounds really refreshing.
Sadly, the so-called "non-ist/phobes" can't do them well. I feel like they're ironically poking fun at minorities while "claiming" they're for minorities. Disgusting and sad.
This character TANKED an Avengers...scratch that...the only Avengers game for PS4 bc they made you play through her.
Her sales are artificial. Theyre pumped up by book drives and woke librarians ordering for libraries. My son tried to read her comic, he tossed it like Ya Boi Zack.
There has been 9 reboots.
There has been 10 writers and 10 artist in 6 years try to do this character.
No one likes her.
haha RUclips deleted this comment, so I’m going to put “Chicken” instead of “female”.
It’s funny, Ms Marvel is Carol Danvers to me, she was Ms Marvel back when I read *Marvel,* and I actually liked her back then. It’s amazing how they can utterly ruin a character.
This new Ms Marvel I know very little about, the only thing I know is chicken characters shouldn’t have stretchy powers, it’s an ugly power, it’s a terrible power for a chicken. But we know SJW’s want chickens to be ugly, so it’s no surprise it’s the power they chose for her. Just look at some of the pictures here in this video, so ugly.
It’s hilarious, I’m going to have to put these replacement words list at the start of any comment where I’m talking about race or women.
Because you can’t put the word “Ugly” near the word for the opposite of male.
Stretchy powers on a chicken character been ugly is your opinion, not a fact. And that's fine btw but some people might like that. I for one am interested in how the cgi will be for the TV show
@@mattyt3625 There’s a reason why it hasn’t been done before, because all the old creators know it’s an ugly power, it makes the character look ugly.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- does it? Even Mr fantastic? I mean I haven't read many comics with Mr fantastic but I remember the movies. They were alright with the cgi from what I remember and the elastic look wasn't off putting. I think the biggest concern will be the fact that ms marvel can enlarge herself too. That I can't see looking great but I'll wait and see
Imo there's ways to do it and keep the character visually appealing - Mrs. Incredible, for example - but Kamala Bighands ain't it.