Music Chat: What YouTube Analytics Reveal About Classical Music
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2021
- This brief run-through of my channel statistics for the first fourteen months of video postings offers the opportunity to learn about (a) what the term "classical music" means to the majority of viewers, and (b) what kinds of videos about that music generate the most interest. The answer may surprise you...or maybe not!
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I’ve said this before, but for me, David, you’ve filled a void here on RUclips. You have brought this classical world to a larger audience. Not just certain composers and their pieces, but also the stories behind them. I dare say that we classical lovers generally feel a little less unnoticed than before. Speaking as a composer, most of my favorite presentations you’ve done were not within the top 50 most watched. Like the one you did on Frank Bridge. Although I knew “The Sea”, I had no knowledge of his “Summer” and “Enter Spring”. Those two were a revelation, thanks to you. Anyway, as Leonard Bernstein did on his ‘Young People’s Concerts’, so you seem to be doing here. And while I agree with you on most things you like and dislike, I enjoy cringing with the few things I disagree with you on. That’s entertainment! Well done, David.
As I recall, the two other Frank Bridge pieces you mention were two of the fillers to The Sea on the original EMI ASD 3190 LP conducted by Sir Charles Groves.
David talks about classical music in a down to earth manner which, allied to his captivating personality, comes across as extremely refreshing, in a still rather stodgy universe. That's pure gold.
This was interesting..
And on a personal note..
Your channel single handedly reignited my passion and interest in listening..I had stopped listening to new or familiar music and was stuck in a rut..
During the pandemic I discovered your channel and have listened to so much I never took the time for before.. all the Shostakovich symphonies all the Beethoven string quartets all those things I always felt I should have heard but just never took the time.. so thank you thank you thank you and I'm going to keep on listening now
Thank YOU!
Great talk David. I suspect that this less engaging content in terms of RUclips algorithm (surveys of Scarlatti sonatas, Haydn symphonies, etc.) will be as important a legacy as the rest of your review based content, precisely for the passionate and clear way you present it, revealing why these less mainstream works are true masterpieces.
I must say that over the last year as I watched your videos it has cost me a lot of $$$ buying new music or recordings I had never heard until you introduced me to them. Thank you for this channel. It is a gift to music lovers everywhere.
Thank YOU!
And about people preferring to listen to the standard classics rather than the lesser known ones, I guess that's why the former is classic to begin with. I enjoy listening to a lot of more "underdog" composers, but at the end of the day I would get bored pretty quickly if I listen to them too much. But I could sit down to a Beethoven string quartet or a Mahler symphony for a millionth time and would still be entertained. Mahler 6th for example, is a piece that I've listened to for at least a few hundreds times in just 5 or 6 years since I first discovered it, and yet every time I listen to the thing it sounds so fresh for me.
Hey Dave, thanks for this insightful chat...Another thing I noticed is that, among the top 50 most viewed videos in your channel, most of them are reviewing or are about orchestral pieces. (i.e symphonies, concertos, sometimes opera, etc.) There are actually very few chamber music surveys in that list, which I think is also quite interesting. Part of the reason, I believe is your slight inclination towards orchestral music in general. But, I also think it shows that the classical music listening public does find large-scale orchestral pieces more appealing than chamber music. I guess nowadays, film music has become the main entry-point into classical music for newcomers and that is why the preference for orchestral stuff over string quartets, piano trios, etc.
- true
The reason why you get the most viewers is because you, David are THE BEST !!!!!
Personally I'd love to see more analysis. Sometimes I feel like a little kid who opens up the back of an old pocketwatch for the first time and is amazed by the intricate workmanship and minute detail that it takes to make a simple movement. For "new-to-me" music, I'm fond of Jòn Leifs. Sometimes I get tired of people and like to get lost in those vast, sonorous tectonic plates of sound - at least for a little while!
Very interesting analysis. Personally, what the channel has given me (along with colossal credit card bills) has not been so much new areas of repertoire, more a widening of my horizons within the work of composers I thought I knew. For instance I had simply no idea how great and wide ranging a composer Dvorak was, but your consistent championing of him has had a huge impact on my listening. I have learnt a lot in the last year and I hope to continue learning in the future.
@@stackedactor1 Same here. I thought I had 99% of Dvorak's worthwile music - the orchestral stuff at least, but I'd missed much of what was included in the tone poems video, a miss I've since happily fixed.
What statistics don't tell us, and this is the most important thing at all, is how much we enjoy your wonderful channel and how necessary it has become for our musical (and not only musical, I should add) life. So THANKS for everything!!!! Please, keep on telling us to listen.
These are just the BEST videos. Love them.
Thank you David for what you do. I will definitely keep on listening.
The talks in which you introduce unknown and underappreciated pieces are absolute gold! Through your videos, I have discovered Braunfels, Schulhoff, Chaplin (Modern Times), Pattersson, etc. All cd's which have been next to my cd-player these last months! For me, these introductions are the truffles and caviar on the buffet that is your playlist! Still waiting for a Schütz talk though :) I'm sure that it would skyrocket to the top of your analytics list ;) :p
Totally agree. It’s great to hear Dave enthuse about lesser-known composers who I also love. It’s a shame that these videos usually get less views, but that’s to be expected I suppose. I know I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t care less about the next conductor-centric mega box set that features mostly standard rep. I find that stuff pretty redundant and uninteresting (not because of the way Dave presents them, of course).
Being a sucker for (great) conductor mega-boxes, I can only say with Prince Orlofsky in Die Fledermaus: "Chacun a son gôut!" And quote May West: "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful"!
I have loved your Haydn up-loads and you have turned me on to the symphony no 28, what a fabulous piece. Keep on entertaining us with your wit and wisdom. 😎😎😎
Keep on Haydn-crusading, David, and I'll keep on listening!
However, the next step for the channel: create artificial drama with other classical music RUclipsrs! Let the views pour in!
😂 David takes on two set
Ha, ha. Yeah, everyone loves a fight, even when we're talking classical music. Even when I don't agree that a record or performer deserves to be trashed, it makes me smile that people care enough about the music to have such strong opinions. There are a lot of good sports talk channels, but Hurwitz is the only guy I know of who talks classical recordings in a way that's equally entertaining.
I love the Haydn Symphony Crusade! I have learned so much. Please continue. the 1st movement of symphony #26 lamentations has been playing in my head for weeks. Once you hear the actual lamentations you can't stop hearing them. Maybe someday the Haydn String Quartet Crusade, although you would probably get less views for that lets not lose sight of who pretty much invented, and nearly perfected, the string quartet. Please skip the Haydn Baryton Trio crusade. Even though there are about a hundred of those clearly they were written on spec for a paying customer and they are dull stuff.
I stream my music but purchase and collect box sets, and find your channel to be my “go to” in deciding whether to unload my wallet. Please keep up the box sets videos. Love your channel!
It is so enjoyable listening to your cheerful, eloquent commentary and then putting on a disc and hearing it in the light of your thoughts and analysis. THANK YOU Dave Hurwitz - You add a new dimension to my love and experience of "Fine Music"
I totally agree !
David, what I look for in your videos is a suggestion of something new to listen to or to listen to again in a new way. And you rarely disappoint. For example, in your video on Night on Bald Mountain, I sought out the exact recording you played clips from with Theodor Kuschar. It floored me! Not only did I hear even more exactly what you were talking about, it exposed me to one of the most amazing performances of the Rimsky-Korsakov version of the piece. It also increased my opinion of Kuschar. And it gave me a clearer view of BOTH Mussorgsky's talents as a composer and Rimsky's. So thank you so much for these videos. I love them!
I've long been a sucker for composers nobody has heard of. My recorded music collection is full of these things - some of which I bought on your recommendation so keep it up! I love it!
Yep it’s the best thing about the channel.
I found this channel by searching for recordings of the Busoni piano concerto, which lead me to the corresponding "best recordings" video. So keep going with the more obscure repertoire, you still catch a few fish that way!
These reviews help me fill out my collection. These box set reviews are awesome.
Just want to say thank you for all the great stuff you have put out there. i look forward everyday to something new from you. I'm definitely in the musical "omnivore" category, and always look for good music I have not heard before. You recently had a video on symphonies in C Minor (which unfortunately did not make your top 50 list), and played a brief bit by Johann Vanhal. Having been into "classical" music, and collecting at least a couple of thousand lps and cds over more than 60 years, I had still managed to miss him. I went to my Amazon streaming account, and have now listened to over 20 of his symphonies and concertos over the past few weeks, and have found most of them to be well worth the time. Once again, thank you for bringing good music to my attention.
Didn't have a chance to comment at the time, but didn't want to let this go unremarked. I appreciate that your videos do different things for me. Some teach me something new (Learning). Some introduce new performances of pieces I already know, and expand my experience (Discovery). And some are just Entertaining (like the pans). Please keep up the variety, no matter the ratings. And thanks for doing all this.
I appreciate that!
The Haydn crusade has made me love Haydn, so thank you and don’t stop sharing!
Keep doing what you love! You made me discover a lot of new music! You speaking about your Haydn and Bach Cantatas project made me want to listen to them because I've never heard of them. Probably that the algoritm of RUclips is not suggesting them to a lot of people.
Dave, I'm so glad you started this channel. My collection has been in storage for many years (I worked in a classical cd shop during the nineties
- several years after I discovered Mahler while working in a hi-fi shop, the recording being Rattle's Mahler 2 release! I know, it's not the best...) but anyway, thank you. I am now surrounded by many boxes of cds. Thank you
Thank YOU.
You are a gift the world of classical music. Your thoughts and ideas continue to deepen and enhance my enjoyment of music.
Thank you
Dave, anyone can see your most popular videos by going to your channel and choosing Videos and then Sort by Most popular. That will rank all of your 700+ videos. I think a common feature of the «classics» is that the music doesn't require much of an explanation. Good music should grab you regardless of whether you understand it or not. Regarding the success of your channel, I think people like to have their opinions validated, and that's why you get viewers thanking you for recommending their own favourite recording. I was very pleased when you mentioned something I had noticed myself, the wind chord in the first movement of Mozart's «Linz» symphony. Also, I really enjoy your talks about lesser known composers and have made some great discoveries that way.
I've been listening not just to fill in holes in my collection, but to get insight into music that was previously unknown to me, or with which I am not very familiar. It is fun to choose the best performances of a favorite work, but it is more fun to discover new works that you don't often hear in concert, on the radio, or online.
I feel truly inspired by your channel and I greatly appreciate it when you break down pieces of music and discuss what to listen for, etc. also, I have added so many new composers to my listening library I am almost ashamed to admit it because I thought I had a pretty good background in classical music.
So I hope you continue as you were doing. I think I found your channel late 2020 subscribed immediately then set about to watch as many of your prior videos as possible. It has been a joy! Elaine
I appreciate that!
Can I take for me to kiss up again! I recently commented that the Haydn symphony crusade and one of your other series, both of which are not among your most popular, are my favorites! And in this video you mention that videos which analyze pieces of music are not among the most popular. For me, these ARE THE MOST VALUABLE! I am a musician. I am a choral conductor. You have taught ma a great deal about works I love. You have taught me to be a better listener!! By breaking down Haydn or other works (I particularly appreciate the Shostakovich analyses) you have improved me as a listener and as a choral conductor. Thank you! I’m done kissing up…for now. Keep on talking!!!!
Oh, the other series: FABULOUS CONCERT PROGRAMS! I love listening to those!!! The actual music, and of course your talk, but REALLY listening to the programs as you outline them! Positively great!
Not to relive my former exploits here, but I fought this battle for many years with orchestras, audiences and boards. With my last, lengthiest gig, I decisively established a programming format..a generous amount of unfamiliar music along with the classics, packaged in neat Thematic (historical) concepts and introduced from the stage. After the initial exit of traditionalists, the audience we then built came to appreciate and even "covet" the special programming, almost as if it was their special, "privileged" property. Among the greatest audience successes were Delius' APPALACHIA, the Hummel B-Minor PIANO CONCERTO (superbly played by Michael Chertock), the Stanford 4th IRISH RHAPSODY (did it 2x), the Foerster 4th Symphony (most felt honored that it was the N.American premiere), and the Glazunov 5th, which surpassed the Rach 2nd Concerto (on the same program) in terms of the "Applause meter". Then there was the Magnard Chant Funebre (also played 2x) which held its own on the same program with the 1812 Overture (but the Handel "Royal Fireworks", with Brass Band concertino) BOMBED. Go figure.
My point is, it was a continual struggle..mostly successful, but it took total commitment, enthusiasm, and a lively, imaginative presentation (ALL QUALITIES which Mr. Hurwitz has in abundance). Ultimately, a boorish and ignorant board president attempted to impose his will on the artistic product, but by that time, it was clear that the community would not support the orchestra, regardless of its repertoire, and I left town. (However, the attendance data often showed that the "Oddball" repertoire programs equaled or OUT-SOLD the standard rep).
In the end, I greatly appreciate Maestro Hurwitz's enterprise, for obvious reasons. I've learned MUCH here about repertoire that I've never explored, and find the presentations ALWAYS enjoyable, informative and engaging..especially when our host goes off into the stratosphere in terms of his opinions. And as for the "presentation" ??.. as an old Tam-Tam fanatic from way-back, what could be more fun than a fellow nut displaying his own, private arsenal!? (I'm a big Paiste enthusiast myself..and I've played some GREAT, old ones..) LR
The in depth discussions are highly valuable. This is especially so when you can play examples. The Mussorgsky for instance. Keep doing what you are doing.
Really enjoying this channel and it’s massively expanding my listening, would love some more on Malcolm Arnold, would also be interested in your favourite recordings on the LSO live label.
Being a Percussionist in Symphony Orchestras in Australia and originally from Palo Alto ,California where you are from , whatever you say resonate s for me mightily!!!
I have found much intersting music thanks to your talks. I may be rather represntative of those who do not care so much for very detailed analyses of the pieces, but get you anyway, because you have a very clever way of explaining the music so well that even we who are no musicians get interested. The tips we get from you are very rewarding! I found the Järvi box (Chandos) thank to you. And I never thought that Bernstein is so superior in Mahler symphonies to most other conducturs, but you were right.
I have greatly appreciated your attention to some lesser known composers, and on the other side the Haydn symphony cycle. Also still reading your book on Sibelius.... Keep up the good spirit.
Interesting observations and conclusions, David. For what it's worth, your review of "Cantu Arcticus" by Rautavaara was a highlight that inspired me to seek out a recording. I also shared your review with a few other friends. I do appreciate when, in between the Bach, Beethoven and bitching, you help turn me on to something new, obscure and/or worthwhile. It keeps me listening! Thanks.
While I haven't done nearly enough listening to have gone through all of the "classics" yet, attempting to do so has lead me to find gems that I'm not sure you've even mentioned yet. Bartok's Kossuth comes to mind. I listened to Saint-Saens Symphony 1 - which calls for two tubas years before Strauss or Holst, a neat surprise - after the Organ Symphony video. And Karelia Suite, which brings me joy, I discovered accidentally on the Berglund Kullervo disc (really, the official playlist on RUclips) from the Ideal Sibelius list. Thank you!
I love your Haydn Crusade. I hadn't listened much to Haydn's early symphonies, but now I'm quite familiar with them. Oddly enough I have found out that I prefer his even-numbered ones to his odd ones. I keep going back to no.18, 22, 26 and 28 in particular. They're just damn good! And thankully, you have alerted me to lesser-known composers such as Barber and Atterberg. I bought their box sets and they are real finds. I guess there are countless new reasons out there for me to keep on listening...
There’s material for a whole evening discussion-over-pints in here. I’ll limit myself to two thoughts:
1 The overwhelming popularity of the core classics. Whether it’s rock, jazz or classical, most people seem to stop taking on new musical experiences somewhere in their mid twenties. Ask anyone what their favourite music is and more often than not they’ll refer to something that was big part of their life between the ages of 16 and 26. For rock, that means what was on the radio back then, for jazz it’s their early explorations into that genre, for classical it’s what they were exposed to in music lessons. Which means the core classics. Fair enough, unless that cements a belief that nothing worthwhile has been written since 'Hotel California', 'Kind of Blue' or Beethoven's 5th.
2 The core classics are always the core classics? Maybe to an extent, but not totally and not always in the same order. For my music teacher at school, and anyone who claimed an interest in classical music at that time, Mozart and Haydn were considered a major step down from Beethoven. Mahler was nowhere. Tchaikovsky was amongst the Gods, Dvorak interesting for his Cello Concerto and New World, nothing else. Shostakovich? Who? Happily, music is still evolving, composers’ reputations being reassessed, some of what was once obscure and arcane is gaining acceptance. The work you’re doing is a fuelling this evolution. Please keep it up!
I also find that most of my peers lose interest in new music. I am 65 and read Wire magazine regularly that explores the new or what is underground in rock, classical, electronica, world music, avant-garde, and so on. So Hurwitz talking about less-known composers is a revelation to me.
This is a great reminder of the limitations of critics and academics when it comes to shaping mass taste.
Indeed it is.
It's been a while since this analysis of your videos. Kind of curious what your top videos a year later. Looking forward to more in the Haydn symphonie crusade
Really interesting video David and much of it not surprising. It would also be interesting to know if the time of day you upload a video has a bearing on its popularity.
No, it doesn't.
Love the video Dave. I think the classical standard has been defined in America at least since the mid 20th century. Earlier if you consider some American orchestras were established to play the Beethoven symphonies in the 19th century. Now and then the cannon adds a composer to the pantheon, Mahler, Bruckner, and even Sibelius, if maybe at a bit less pedestal height. Bach is admired, allowed in the pantheon but in the specialized wing. I've been listening, playing (piano) and collecting since 1972. I always try to sample your out of the way excursions, and love them, even if I don't like them. Now I know im out of the mainstream in that I play and listen to Bach, scarlatti and Haydn more, along with recordings of my youth,,ahhh nostalgia. Example being i bought the blue Walcha set you recommended, love it, like an old friend. Keep the videos comming Dave, im a avid Brucknarian, who loves your takes on Bruckner. Oh, if you get around to Rubbra, it would be.much appreciated if not viewed.
Thanks
Paul G
Rubbra was a fine symphonist but who never attained popularity or many recordings. He certainly should have a video here at some point I feel.
I'm so glad that David doesn't just wish to follow his analytics and let the emerging content be ruled by it.
As someone whose listening to Germanic composers (other than Bach) is not even 5% of my overall classical consumption to date over the past thirty years- I tend to like the 20th C. Russians/Slavic composers most of all; followed by the French 'impressionist' and 19th C. Russian composers; followed by Bach and contemporary composers and English Renaissance/Baroque/Medieval works each about equally as categories; followed by specifically American composers and 'miscellaneous,', and so on, somewhat in that order- I'm continually disheartened by the Germanic high classical & romantic era dominance of classical music. Collectively, the 'High Germanic' tradition is in the very last category of 'classical music' for me up until now, though I imagine David's videos pertaining to them will change that a bit, e.g., after watching his ideal Beethoven Symphony cycle, while not subsequently picking out such highlights, I did grab Gunter Wand's box of them to replace my dusty old Masur collection of the works. Already happier with them.
I'm grateful that this channel goes into all kinds of 'classical music' nooks and crannies- whether it's Latin American composers; composers like Koechlin and conducters such as Ancerl, both genuine discoveries for me; Russians, Russians, and more Russians- beyond the standard Germanic tradition. David's strengths in running this channel are his background as a classical musician himself; his formal musical education; his long critical practice; his 'inside gab' on the field; his freely-offered opinions; and particularly his exploration of repertoire and recordings that most of us are not aware of. Plus, he does make it all fun and adds what IMO is just about the right amount of snarkiness for a discussion of the field.
Love the "classics" videos. Even more I enjoy the shows like difficult symphonies than offer a chance to "stretch our ear muscles" (Charles Ives). Kvetching is super fun!
It was a shame the best Glazunov Symphony cycle did not make the top 50, Haydn too. Love their music and should be more popular. Interesting to see what most people like. Good video again.
I am pleased to hear your Bruckner chats have done well. His music is so rarely performed in the United States. Or recorded. I think there have been only 3 Bruckner symphony cycles recorded in North America, 1 in Montreal and 2 in Chicago.
I went to a concert with the Franck Symphony on the same program as the Cherubini symphony and though it wasn't a "great performance" occasion (R.Abbado/Seattle Symphony) I LOVED that evening. A shame it's unfashionable nowadays but that's what records are for. "The music we want when we want it."
Thanks for recommending Andre Cluytens somewhere (I forgot where). I listen to the Complete Stereo Box almost every day since and enjoy every moment of it. Don't mind the trashing. I love many of the artists you seem to dislike but I almost love every artist you recommend... So I like the recommending better than the trashing :-)
Hello Dave.
I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about Mahler complete symphony cycles. I know that you say that there are not any sucsessful one but I would still like to hear what you have to say about them.
I listen to a least one Mahler symphony a week.
Best wishes Fred
Streaming platforms provide revealing analytics too. The simple answer to the simple question "what makes a classical composer a classic?" is: the hits! Thanks to Swan Lake and Nutcracker, Tchaikovsky has as many monthly listeners as Brahms and Debussy (thanks to his hit "Clair de Lune"). All three have more than 4 million monthly listeners. Beethoven (hits: "Moonlight Sonata" and 1st movement of 5th symphony), Bach (1st piece of the "well tempered clavier") and Mozart ("requiem", 1st movement of 21st piano concerto) have around 7 million monthly listeners each. Haydn has only 700K, same as Mahler ("adagietto" factor). Bruckner's at 200K (4th symphony 1st movement being the booster shot). Koechlin 16K is on par with Martinu 18K. Bloch is at 54K thanks to his "jewish life suite" and "jewish songs", not the "4 episodes" or the string quartets. Draw your own conclusions.
Bottom line: the hits are the key to classical eternity. Albinoni's got a following of 700K (same as Haydn and Mahler, and double that of C.P.E. Bach) thanks to 1 adagio which he probably didn't even write.Thanks to his minor hits, Sibelius is at 1,5 million. Albert Roussel's got no hits: he has a paltry monthly auditorium of 5K. He should have written folk dances like Bartok (500K monthly listeners vastly thanks to those).
Sad but true. I'm all for the adventure, the wonder of discovery, and so on, but I always knew I was part of a subset of a subset of a subset, even as a subscriber to your channel.
I'm sure you'll find some time in the future to discuss Hartmann's symphonic output, though. Take care.
P.S.: Oops, almost forgot: Satie has 4 million monthly listeners, thanks to (you've guessed it) the "gymnopédies", way more than Ravel, Stravinsky or Franck combined! As for "major" composers active after WW2, Ligeti aside (2001 OST minor hit), they do not attract more than about 15-20K listeners each in most cases. Rautavaara's at 23K. Lachenmann has a scant 1,5K. Contemporary is not exactly dead, but it's not very much alive either. Lachenmann's probably been busy writing its funeral march all along.
I appreciate how appealing excoriations of self-indulgent conductors or soloists are, but I’ve thought more than once how interesting it would be to have your opinions on some of your favourite living conductors and soloists. Perhaps that would make for a good video?
It would be interesting to know the length of your more popular videos. I tend to gravitate to the 10-20 minute ones, as they are the ones I find I have a slot for. I have bookmarked a number of the longer ones, and sometimes can watch them in instalments. But I may be unusual in that - I certainly enjoy your Haydn and more investigative explorations as much as I think you do.
The longer instalments come in very handy, when doing routine household chores like f.ex. washing up or other forms for cleaning without the use of noisy utensils. A wonderful remedy for making dull times great times!
In the immortal words of Mr. Spock, "Fascinating." A thought: Maybe there's a way to couple the "classic" repertoire with more obscure pieces as a way to increase the exposure to underappreciated works. And there's also the possibility to use those comparisons to showcase the often fine line between genius and excellence. I'm a bit disappointed that the "Miniature Masterpieces" and "Worlds Most Beautiful Melodies" aren't faring better. But that's life. As an aside, I love the word "kvetch." It's so musically evocative of what it is. Thanks for doing these videos.
I love the giant gong in the background - I hope you find some reason to give it a good thwack sometime in a video or two.
Have a look at my Shostakovich 7 video--not loud, but very atmospheric. I have whacked it previously.
Thanks, I was hoping you might see this and point me in the right direction if it had already happened.
Hello David, this is a great video...I like number- crunching even with classical music...I was surprised that Haydn-related videos are not among the most viewed. But there must be some explanation...in my case, I have seen only one or two of the Haydn crusade because I am doing my own Haydn crusade with Symphonies 72 through Symphony 104, and also Sinfonia Concertante and Symphonies A & B...wirh different conductors (Dorati, Skatkin, Rattle, Weil, Bernstein, Bruggel, Goodman, Colin Davis, etc) and months ago I did Die Schöffung and Die Jahreszeiten...I am planning to begin follow your Crusade later...and the Bach Kantaten cycle, as well; a few years back I did all the cantatas and begin again some time, and I am in the middle of it...so, I hope you finish both cycles...and maybe you will give us Haydn's Masses and the string quartets sometime...I love Haydn...my wife says that never heard of Haydn much before...and most people I ask, never heard of him...incredible...I know you have wtitten a Haydn book and I want to read it sometime...On the other hand, I liked the Mussorgsky video on a Night in the Bald Mountain...so great...anyways, keep on posting...we are following you!! GV....PS: More Stravinsky and Schönberg once in a while? Regards, GV
Gee, I've done a lot of Stravinsky!
Okie, that's true..maybe I want more...thanks...
I've been trying to understand Haydn's greatness/popularity gap for a long time, and I think the explanation is simply that his music only works if you're paying attention. Most of the popular composers can fill a room with atmosphere, and the atmosphere is there whether you're listening or not. Haydn's music doesn't operate that way; as "background music" it makes little impression. His music is full of surprises, but the surprises only work if you were listening closely enough to have formed an expectation of where he was heading next, so that it has an impact when he veers off in a different direction. Also, the good-humored quality of most of his music makes him seem trivial, at least to people who think only an emotional basket-case can be an important artist.
I think this is very astute and very true. Thank you for putting it so succinctly and pointedly.
All of these analytics state what I’d have assumed: people are most interested in classical’s greatest hits, even people interested enough in the subject to watch a specialized RUclips channel on the subject. As great as your best and ideal cycle videos have been, (and I’ve learned so much and made many purchases based on them), my favorite videos really are the ones introducing eme to composers and repertoire I didn’t know beforehand. And yes, humans love gossip, so the negative reviews (or diss tracks to borrow a hip-hop phrase) will always be a draw too. Of course, I love a good Haydn crusade as well.
Now you owe us a Franck RUclips! ;)
I much prefer your talks on lesser known composers. I feel sad that many do not go beyond the standard set of classic composers. I loved the one on the touger composers.
Well.. All your kvetching about Norrington got me to listen to his Beethoven recordings - and honestly as a neophyte I love them. I can't speak to any of his others though.
You are welcome to them. Enjoy. What matters is that you listened.
Finally, Haydn shows up! I love and look forward to the episodes where you analyze the works. Frankly I don't get why all the Mahler and Bruckner. And I like them. In small, infrequent doses.
Maybe there's something addictive in Mahler and Bruckner that makes certain folks more likely to search for videos about their music. Speaking as a Mahler addict myself, I know that's what I do :)
@@ftumschk Will grant you that M & B warrant immersion at times. Addictions, not so good.
I'm with you Elizabeth. I've probably spent 10 times as many hours listening to Haydn over the years than I have of Mahler and Bruckner combined.
@@Don-md6wn Am listening to Haydn to get the dregs of late romanticism out of my system lol
@@elizabethj8510 Ah, good choice. Once all that romanticism has been purged we will put you on a strait diet of sole Bach repertoire. Should be just the thing
Can’t wait for your video on Currentzis’ Beethoven’s No.5 !!!!! Please!!
I mentioned it in this video. It's there. "Currentzis Terrorized by Beethoven's Fifth." Have a look.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ops sorry I was thinking of the 7th and typing the 5th!
BBC Music Mag May edition raved about it, can’t comment as I have not heard it but after the 5th not sure I want to!
@@stackedactor1 I did the 7th too.
Dear Dave,
You videos have been a source of immense joy to me though out this past difficult year. I can’t thank you enough for the abundance of information, knowledge and hummer you have shared with us - Thank you!
Noam Polonsky
P.s
I’m trying to find you Shostakovich book on Amazon m, but it seems to be unavailable. How can I buy it?
You can order a copy from the publisher, Rowman and Littlefield. It's in their online store, and thanks very much!
Mr Hurwitz: Why not a double concerto video of the Best of Beethoven and Mahler vocal music? Or maybe one of The Best Fidelio recordings?
One of my favorite videos is the discussion on Claudia Cassidy. Is there a link to the full text of your paper on her?
Sorry, no.
Could you point me in the right direction or to one of your videos that spotlight the "best" of Beethoven solo piano sonatas on CD?
I've done complete cycles and some individual discs, but have no dealt with the sonatas in detail yet.
@ David Hurwitz, thank you so much for your work. It is truly a musical education. I dont know how you feel about post-romantic atonal music? it oculd be argued that in the romantic era Wagner started to deconstruct tonality and Stravinsky was already heading in the direction of atonality. Atonal music exploded for a moment in music history and then the furor kind of slowly died down. For a long time i belonged to the "just say no" camp when it came to atonality and then i recently discovered that my ear was intrigued by the Schoenberg Wind Quintet, but its so hard to wade through the repertoire and pick out the gems from amongst all the weeds. Could you do a video on what is worth listening to in atonal music and what is just plain trash--and more importantly what makes an atonal piece worth listening to?
That's a tough one, but I've already said that atonality is like anything elso--there's good stuff and bad stuff. The rest is details.
Further to the point on musicology, the problem with musicologists and those like Jacob Collier and Rick Beato is that they care much more about chords, harmonies and maths instead of actual music. But I saw a comment on this channel which was fantastic and it was that musicologists are people who can read music but cannot listen to it.
And that's one of the very unfortunate aspects of the musical profession....that large sub-sets of classical music devotees (musicologists, many record collectors, etc) DON'T ATTEND Live performances....and thereby deprive performing musicians of much-needed support (especially $).
It's maddening. In my own experience, I had MANY musical colleagues who were THRILLED that I was always programming unusual repertoire, whether the Schmidt 1st Symphony or Prokofiev's "Winter Bonfire". They showered me with compliments and encouragement, but NEVER bought a ticket and showed up to demonstrate their support. The biggest disappointment was the major task of mounting the Rott Symphony in E, which had legions of fans around the Chicago area (including musicologists who bemoaned the fact that the work was never played)..and then watching as only 1 or 2 showed up for the performance (and those were on comp. tickets). Very discouraging...NOT pessimism, as David says..but REALISM. LR
I think Thomas Beecham said that.
What Beecham actually quipped was "A musicologist is someone who can read music, but can't hear it"
On the same subject, I think it was Klemperer who said: "A musicologist is someone who knows everything about ology, but nothing about music".
No doubt the discussions about alternative Bruckner compositions has made you a You Tube “personality”. Cheers! PS - time for Members’ Only content for your lectures vs. “rants”?
My personal favorite videos are ones when you spend the most time breaking down works and playing examples like a PBS Documentary to understand a work on a deeper musical level...but then again my pulse has never been on what the majority likes. I honestly don't usually watch "trashing" videos...
Looks like people mostly listen to symphonies, which is fine. However, it’s a pity, because there is so much fascinating chamber music. Also, not a whole lot of people care about 20th century music, also a PITY.
I wonder if it's a blanket unappreciation of "20th century music" or just certain kinds of 20th century music. You know the kind I mean. But I once went to a concert in Seattle of Messiaen's Turangalila and the hall was packed to the doors. But superior doctrinaire types like Boulez despised it and even told the composer so. Yet Pierre B wrote the kind of 20th century music that a whole lot of people DON'T like including me.
@@bbailey7818 I like Boulez
@@monsterlove2323 Somebody has to, I suppose. You and a few dozen others but not the great preponderance of serious music lovers.
@@bbailey7818 first of all, it is a whole lot more than a dozen. Secondly, who says Boulez and Darmstadt school composers, or even John Cage are NOT serious music?
@@monsterlove2323 It's debatable. 4'33" isn't even music much less serious. But I think for most people the 20th century is chock full of composers and music far more rewarding than the Darmstadt School which eventually died out of its own sterility. I think much more preparation and concert time would be profitably devoted to, say, the symphonies of Martinu, but one example, than the conceits of Boulez and IRCAM. But chacun à son goût.
Even if most people do sometimes go off the beaten path, those videos will probably still have fewer views, just because there are so many directions to go. However, we all come together for that core rep like Beethoven, Brahms and Mahler symphonies, Beethoven piano sonatas, The Rite, etc.
As for the trashing, I think it’s just because trashing brings out your (and most reviewers’) sense of humor. It’s not because we like negativity. If you can make a funny video praising a Bach box, I bet it will do just as well. Long Live Hedwig Bilgram!!
Yesterday I was chatting with a fairly well-regarded composer of serial music, and brought up Paul Wranitzky's op. 31 (a symphony called "The Peace"). I said it was, to me anyway, the most imaginative and tuneful symphony written in the 18th century, and probably held that place until Beethoven's sixth came along some years later. He pooh-poohed me, and said he had never heard of it, and if it hadn't been played with any regularity over the last 200 years, why bother? I replied that it was curious indeed that he allowed popular opinion to direct and shape his own musical tastes, yet he was still attempting to make a living composing serial music. Sadly, that struck a little too close to home.
But rightly so!
Hi David.i own Prokofiev's symphony cycle with gergeiev...i noticed you elegantly ignored it..was it from a good reason?
The LSO cycle is very good, the later Mariinsky recordings are dreadful. Here's a review of the LSO: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12842/?search=1. I saw no need to discuss either given the competition.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks David.
That harmonic analysis reminds me of Rick Beato's channel. I used to watch him but now I don't, mostly because when he analyzes something, it's always chord progressions in the mathematic sense. It feels like sitting through an advanced theoretical science class that has nothing to do with music. I come out of those analysis more confused then if I just sit down and listen to the music myself.
David, would you be interested in making a video about how somebody who only listens to the classics of the “common practice period” can go about getting into modern and contemporary repertoire? As a composer myself, I always have difficulty encouraging people to listen to newer music that they just instantly dismiss as atonal (atonal being, for them, anything that is more dissonant than late romantic harmony…).
Yes, I might do that. I'll have to think about it, but I appreciate the suggestion.
To sum it all up, you must do even more Mahler and Beethoven videos if you want to remain at the Top of classical music divulgers in RUclips and the Net.
I am personally surprised as how much symphonies dominate the top of the list. Can I ask the group what percentage of your time is spent listening to symphonies? I'd say I'm 50% chamber music (quartets and sonatas in particular), 30% symphonies, and 20% choral, concertos and everything else. Also, I seem to listen to much more Haydn and much less Mahler that average.
Noy surprising bcuz it is Dave who focused more on symphony/orchestral music than other genres
Congratulations on your huge listenership! Very helpful chat. However, isn’t there a difference between a “classic” and “classical”? Franck’s Symphony may not be considered a classic, but isn’t still classical, or did I misunderstand you?
That's one way of looking at it!
Who is the Darvid Hurwitz of Jazz? 🤔
What about country statistics? Could be interesting. Probably US, UK, Germany etc, at the top?
Basically.
I wonder how the diversity movement will impact what gets termed "classical" nowadays. Would the Amy Beach or Florence Price symphony replace the Franck Symphony in that liminal space of what's in and what's out? There might be more performers and conductors who are women and racial minorities, but will that change what they play and record?
For me, the only Bach cantata recordings worth yaving are those that Scherchen recorded.
I haven’t watched the Haydn symphony crusade yet, maybe it’s time for me to start. Instead of listening to Mahler 6th for the 7,849th time
I'd appreciate it.
I watched the first video of your Haydn series last night and loved it! Looking forward to watching all of them and learning. You’re a great teacher, thanks again for what you do!
@@jg2977 Thanks for watching!
Interesting how popular your Mahler videos are, as much of Mahler's music is generally considered to be "difficult". That may well be why your Mahler videos get a lot of views; a big percentage of those viewers might be coming to Mahler for the first time and are looking for guidance.
Mahler may be considered ‘difficult’ but he’s a box office success. Needless to say this hasn’t always been the case. After the film of Death in Venice premiered a producer in Hollywood asked if they might be able to hire Mahler which shows how little he was on the radar :)
It's interesting that the most popular videos range from the established "classics" on the one hand to trashing certain musicians/recordings on the other... from "Ode an die Freude" to good old "Schadenfreude". What's not to like?
I'm sad that the talk about the worst album covers ever didn't make an appearance. Highly recommended 😂
Sounds like Mahler is your bread and butter.
More like my Kasha and Varnishkes.
It's a pity JS Bach and Haydn don't get the attention they deserve.
Has all Franck's music fallen out of fashion, or does a remnant remain, holding on to "classic" status?
An interesting question. I've "kept on listening" for 40+ years, and in that time I can't recall Franck being performed any more or less than he is today. I rarely listen to Franck at home, and then it's inevitably the D Minor Symphony or Le Chasseur Maudit - both of which are great, but not works I return to often.
I'd say only the violin sonata qualifies nowadays.
My favorite piece of music by Franck, by a wide margin, is his sonata for violin and piano.
@@Don-md6wn Do you know his organ music? That would next on my list (Michael Murray on Telarc is tremendous). Otherwise the Symphony and the Symphonic Variations can be wonderful if they're done the right way (I like Plasson on EMI and Tortelier on Chandos).
@@UlfilasNZ I don't. Thanks for the suggestion.
i am a huge Haydn fan. However, even as that, I don't care so much as to bother with the less good Haydn recordings, because in Haydn more than just about any major composer, only the very, very best recordings are really worth hearing. Most recordings simply fall too short of this sublime music itlself to count for anything at all. Hayen deserves the best, and only the best really pleases. That is similar to the case of Cherubini's music: a respectable supply or recordings, but most of them are beside the point, just not worth hearing.
Bruckner’s 8th was surpassed by Roger Norrington? Unbelievable. The world is going downhill fast…
Of course--bitching beats Bruckner.
It seems to me that most of your viewers are probably desperate to be told what 'best' to listen to because they don't know and need advice on where to start their listening and spending; whereas most of your hard-core subscribers probably already know what to listen to and thus come more for the 'trashing' videos and the musico-technical ones you enjoy doing the most. Those two groups are probably quite distinct and come to you for quite different reasons. But hence all the 'top/best' videos appear in the top 50 quite prominently -and your favourites (and mine, frankly) don't. If you were able to produce a top 50 from only subscribers, rather than passing visitors, it would be interesting to see if it was significantly different from the 'everyone's top 50' you listed here.
Your analysis probably holds, but statistics and damned lies, you know... People are directed to your videos through RUclips algorithms, which prioritize already popular topics and create an echo chamber. The only way out: keep on listening!
You make a good point.