No, that was a legit rate fight ... I was absolutely stunned that he didn't just rek me at any one of a dozen points there, and knew I had to include it. My teammate showing up at the end and distracting him for a second was all it took. My best guess is a stock (or near stock) jet with a non-upgraded pilot who couldn't take the Gs.
Spamraams flying everywhere, ran out of countermeasures, half the plane is red, low on ammo .. but its all good, he's just flyin' along nice and happy! :-)
Other good options for top tier premiums would be a Greek F-4E Icarus 2000 (upgrade made in Germany), a Polish MiG-29G (would go nicely with the Leo 2PL) or a Luftwaffe-tested F-16 or F-20 (they flew them extensively in the mid 80s for testing). I like to think the Swiss stuff will be mainly added in the main tree (2 lines of the german air tree are very empty from tier 5 onwards) or, if anything, event rewards
From a historical POV, I'm very happy to see the F-4F ICE in WT... however putting the AIM-120 at the very bottom of the Vehicle Mod Research without any FOX-1 supplements was a wicked oversight from Gaijin, IMO. Here's an airframe from the '70s that only gets slightly improved AIM-9Ls against jets that get higher tier FOX-1s stock... This was a very painful grind. AIM-120s should have been a Tier 1 or 2 unlock for this given it's limitations.
Feedback about this has been give for years, modules locked/unlocked should change BR, I could see some planes go more than a whole BR down, but even just a slight decrease would help a lot.
That will be the ONLY saving grace when I unlock it eventually because that way I can at least get some RP without constantly getting punched in the nuts.
Thank you for another great review! Phantom phanatics will know how to get the phull potential phrom this phantastic airphrame. (Even though it still retains the LCOSS gunsight and nothing more modern - which is a disadvantage for Sim play).
man. it would have been so cool if this was part of a more exclusive set of ARH jets along with other low-performance dogfighters like the tornado and harriers. it’d have been a much nicer dynamic between proper 4th gens with SARH that can dogfight well and these upgraded 3rd gens with ARH that can’t. we could’ve always added the new 4th gens later.
@@ironpizza5150 yeah whoever decided to set them at the same br was smoking the essence of the snail itself. Pure unnecessary hate for the british. Just the way Gaijin likes it
Medium flank the best part, while other dogfight others, this baby swoop with aim9l and 120 so easy and fast, while doing that i done 2 base destroy with ffar
@@AJ_on_One1 The F5C never had flares but in game it has 60 of them. Gaijin could have bent history a little bit to help out German air mains but they simply hate us so they didnt.
I haven't noticed any difference personally. I landed 2 Ds in preparing this review, neither got a kill. All 4 G's I landed got 1shot kills. **shrugs**
I'm waiting to do any more Israeli stuff until the current conflict dies down, I don't want to deal with the comments section .... but the lack of TWS isn't a bug.
I haven’t played War Thunder in a year or two, give or take. Is it still the same the last time I played it, Real Shatter and Br Compression mechanics included?
@@TimsVariety I find it entertaining, so no reason for me to stop you, especially when you make an honest attempt. German is hard afterall, so don't worry.
You wanna know the best part of this aircraft? I’m 90% sure that gaijin is gonna put a second one after this one as a „F-4F ICE Late“ variant as a stopgap between this and the Eurofighter Typhoon ☠️☠️☠️
@@TimsVariety I really don’t want to, but that’s what I honestly believe, since not only is it some weird designation instead of just „F-4F ICE“, but also because it’s so incredibly bad and there’s not much else before the Typhoon
@@luuk341 Exactly my thoughts... Literally the only thing this one is missing are the IRIS-T missiles, and those were just tested on the Phantom, never used operationally, and also never used together with a HMD either
Just a small note, they massively buffed mavericks with HEAT along side the hellfire, the D has comparable or better killing power than the G now. Zenturion7 has a great video on it. I have been informed this was a dev server only change, a sad day for all.
I haven't personally noticed any difference. In testing it for this review, I scored 2 direct hits with the D (one on some italian centaro thing, and another on an MBT), only one was a crit and neither pop'ed the target. All 4 G's that I connected with were 1 hit kills, 2 MBTs, 1 LT, 1 SPAA.
@@coloneljason9094 they actually didnt? Its on the changelog for the update. And yes they have been massivle buffed. Maybe tims just didnt test enough and he was unlucky with those 2. 65G might still be a little better but on some planes like the f-16 were you have to choose between 3 65d or 1 65g, then the d is the obvious choice
These things flew for so long in Germany that it's unbelievable, but it was liked by the pilots. Fun note, the f4 were called "Luftverteidigungsdiesel" (air defense diesel) due to their notable exhaust spewing black smoke.😅
if ever there was a case for tying BRs to weapon loadouts, it's this patch. Wish we could take these new planes out to stock grind them without having to see fox3s if we could so choose
Btw my two cents on what do when flying out the my beloved Phantom. I really focus on getting low, with turned off radar and fly on the flanks. Always having an eye on my RWR, not to get countered. Then I go in after the (in my opinion) idiotic Furball has wrecked booth teams in the center of the map. Go in on targets that are either in a dogfight or still flying high, I do some pop up attacks and in most cases they are either too fast or too close to evade the missile. Keep em locked for Datalink. Or I fly a bit further along the flanks and hit the people that dumped all their fox 3 missiles and are going RTB. While doing this I also attacked some runways with the Maverick G if there are already people who landed on the unprotected airbase. (people mostly do to safe time) If I see another F-4F ICE when the match starts, I sometimes try to guard them as wingman and fly in formation with them. Esp. when they are Stockgrinding and need protection, because phantom lovers have to stick together. That way you can split the attention of attacking targets or catch them offguard. Kill them before they kill your Buddy!
My theory is sounding more and more likely after hearing about the real-world history. I think within the next couple patches we'll see the EFT be after this in the tech tree. It makes sense both logically and historical. Great video as always Tim!
@@wapniak666 well the theory is that since GER got a dog water of a jet Germany is suffering for now. You are right but also I've seen no one talk about it. I'm talking about it 🤡
@@Tanks.With.Teeth.Malloy what I don't follow How is that a theory? That's what happened We knew typhoon was coming since first 4th gens were released, plenty of people talked about that Again German has literally nothing else to add, they had f4 in service and then typhoon
@@wapniak666 I call it a theory because we are not 100% sure what the snail will do. Will they do that? Probably. Are we 100% sure it will happen? No. So that's why it's a theory. You are having issues with me calling it a theory... whatever you want to call it is fine. Jfc
@@wapniak666 I call it a theory because we are not 100% sure what the snail will do. Will it happen? Probably. Are we 100% sure? No. So if your only issue is I called it a theory then I'm sorry I called it that. Whatever you want to call it.
Coming back to this video after some changes to Fox-3's and BRs and I can, 100%, say I wish i could sell the ICE. I would sell it back for 1 SL even. Its so much of a letdown that i partially expect it to get foldered with the F-4F Late and replaced by the Swiss F-18 (if Gaijin were smart.
I get what you are saying, but its just that that isnt what people want from a jet. The ICE always arrives last to a match anyway. Either YOUR entire team is dead, and you get 33612 radar missiles shot your way. OR the whole enemy team is dead and you do nothing. ARB is literally about killing other planes, yet the ICE is forced to play second fiddle. It sucks
I have a question: Im not an aviation expert (im more of an enthusiast), so my question is. Whats next? I mean whats next in terms of weapons and aircraft? Thanks for the content as always
Well basically only radar seeking air to ground missiles, so anti radiation missiles that seek out radar sourses aka spaas with radar And then generally always better missiles of what we have rn. Later IR missiles, like the iris-T, we can get for example can target a plane behind the plane, in this case the Eurogighter, that fires it
@@luigipignatale7790 cause they specifically Auto target Like fox 3 missiles onto Radar Spaas. Imagine it like ground fox 3s that target only one Type of vehicles....the one that is the main threat against the Planes themselfes
Please tell me that the F-16C you fox-2 at 3:48 was a paid actor, i can't believe i saw a F-16 lose a fight to an F4
No, that was a legit rate fight ... I was absolutely stunned that he didn't just rek me at any one of a dozen points there, and knew I had to include it. My teammate showing up at the end and distracting him for a second was all it took. My best guess is a stock (or near stock) jet with a non-upgraded pilot who couldn't take the Gs.
@@TimsVariety it was really cool to see, and a really nice video Tim, great job!
I was about to scream at my computer. That has to be the worse F-16 Pilot I have ever seen.
This fight was honestly painfull to watch
@@kampfsau9997 Trainwreck.
In the moment, all was thinking was ".. is this actually happening?"
The happy little face on the tail makes up for any short comings of this jet. He's just so happy to be there.
Spamraams flying everywhere, ran out of countermeasures, half the plane is red, low on ammo .. but its all good, he's just flyin' along nice and happy! :-)
I can´t unseen the happy face in the F-4 tail.
You're welcome.
I’m praying they give us the Swiss F-18, but given that the Swiss Hunter is a squadron jet, it’s gonna be Germany’s top tier premium.
Nien you get the brick with fox 3's until they add the euro fighter
Other good options for top tier premiums would be a Greek F-4E Icarus 2000 (upgrade made in Germany), a Polish MiG-29G (would go nicely with the Leo 2PL) or a Luftwaffe-tested F-16 or F-20 (they flew them extensively in the mid 80s for testing).
I like to think the Swiss stuff will be mainly added in the main tree (2 lines of the german air tree are very empty from tier 5 onwards) or, if anything, event rewards
The F/A-18 will be disgusting. 10 Spamraams in War Thunder is gonna be a real feelsbadman
I think the f20 that germany tested will be the 12.0 premium
Nice pfp
From a historical POV, I'm very happy to see the F-4F ICE in WT... however putting the AIM-120 at the very bottom of the Vehicle Mod Research without any FOX-1 supplements was a wicked oversight from Gaijin, IMO.
Here's an airframe from the '70s that only gets slightly improved AIM-9Ls against jets that get higher tier FOX-1s stock... This was a very painful grind. AIM-120s should have been a Tier 1 or 2 unlock for this given it's limitations.
Ah you see if they make the grind impossible, more people spend money on GE to buy mods
Feedback about this has been give for years, modules locked/unlocked should change BR, I could see some planes go more than a whole BR down, but even just a slight decrease would help a lot.
So it's essentially unplayable while stock.
@@major_kukri2430 I mean without AMRAAM it’s basically a Kurnass 2000 which is a whole br lower
Yeah. But the kurnass doesn't have to fight fox 3s. At least in sim where I play
There is something going for the ICE, right now its the best plane in the game for Air Assault Arcade
That will be the ONLY saving grace when I unlock it eventually because that way I can at least get some RP without constantly getting punched in the nuts.
It actually gets an accurate phantom cockpit
Still and always the best videos! Thanks again Tim.
Thank you for another great review!
Phantom phanatics will know how to get the phull potential phrom this phantastic airphrame.
(Even though it still retains the LCOSS gunsight and nothing more modern - which is a disadvantage for Sim play).
watching you circle with the F-16 literally caused me actual physical discomfort
it was like human centipede or saw or something
ooh, waited for that plane for a very long time!
But it's still last in my grind list for now )
Pretty good geman pronounciation, btw!
man. it would have been so cool if this was part of a more exclusive set of ARH jets along with other low-performance dogfighters like the tornado and harriers. it’d have been a much nicer dynamic between proper 4th gens with SARH that can dogfight well and these upgraded 3rd gens with ARH that can’t. we could’ve always added the new 4th gens later.
Oh my god that utterly clueless F-16 at the 3 minute mark 😭😭😭😭
Bro does NOT know his capabilities
ikr it literally hurt my soul to watch
I really like your videos tim.
21 views in 2 minutes, bro is getting good, quality review as usual
You know, we could have turned this thing into a german Kurnass 2000 or F-4EJ Kai, but no, Gaijin just had to say "fuck you, you get nothing"
I can't wait till you do the FA2. Same sort of story as the ICE, but with an even more painful stock grind
It's flat out worse in almost every way to the av8b. Kinda sad
@@ironpizza5150 yeah whoever decided to set them at the same br was smoking the essence of the snail itself.
Pure unnecessary hate for the british. Just the way Gaijin likes it
Ideal fighter to Ace Combat 8. 65 years of F-4 in 2023.
In ground rb it’s more than capable at CAP at top tier. Well aslong as their aren’t more than 3 enemies up
Medium flank the best part, while other dogfight others, this baby swoop with aim9l and 120 so easy and fast, while doing that i done 2 base destroy with ffar
Tim, will you do a video on the AMX-A1?
I'll get to it eventually, but as far as I can tell its almost identical to the tech tree AMX, which I covered somewhat recently.
The MAA-1 Piranha is a hilarious missile although sometimes it's not very effective
It's got funny missiles
Would love to see you review the R2Y2 planes all three of them
ruclips.net/video/dyeWxopKluo/видео.html
It could get the mig 21 ecm pods which could have 64 cms on each side
Final verdict, it’s not good at all but still semi useable due to how fox 3s work.
Am surprised that the German mig-29g don’t have the upgraded R-77
German migs cant carry r77s nor were they ever supplied to Germany
@@AJ_on_One1 The F5C never had flares but in game it has 60 of them. Gaijin could have bent history a little bit to help out German air mains but they simply hate us so they didnt.
The HEAT warheads in the 65D got a bug buff they should one shot a lot more consistent now
I haven't noticed any difference personally. I landed 2 Ds in preparing this review, neither got a kill. All 4 G's I landed got 1shot kills. **shrugs**
@@TimsVariety I’ll try and look more into but they’ve been consistent for me so far 😅
First Vehicke that will get ECM pod next update after gaijin farmed enough cash from the grind of fox3. At least that what I think will happen.
Yeah I'm strongly suspecting ECM is coming this year.
Can you make a video about improved BAZ? I don't know if it's some kind of bug, but that plane doesn't have a TWS option on the radar. Nice video btw.
I'm waiting to do any more Israeli stuff until the current conflict dies down, I don't want to deal with the comments section .... but the lack of TWS isn't a bug.
They literally could put it on 11.7-12.0 and it would be perfect
I enjoy the wording on multirole ordinance lol, bc it’s terrible at cas but had a lot of dumb bombs
I haven’t played War Thunder in a year or two, give or take. Is it still the same the last time I played it, Real Shatter and Br Compression mechanics included?
realshitter is much less of an issue and they did a teeny tiny bit of decompression but (like every update post 2016) top tier is worse
I hate how they made the Agile Eagle bound to flaps when it was automatic before
It's still automatic as well. You can just force the slats to deploy with combat flaps
@@luuk341 it not automatic .. at least not anymore or it doesn't work on the F4 i have ?
well, we need eurofighter typhoon for german ASAP
no we do not.
I got it and had a match 5 kills no deaths in a dogfight it’s fucked but if your smart with the fox3s your balling
statistical anomaly. Well done though
but until you stock grind out the amraam you're not going to have a single bit of fun
Ill just use my u.s tree til typhoon comes
broooo f16 paid actor what was that
I swear dude, that was a real rate fight ... posted about it in the pinned comment lol
Tim with the german again.
Let me know if you want some pronunciation lessons, I would be happy to teach you, lol
One of my IRL friends is German, and helps already.
There is almost no way I'll ever *not* have a thick American accent when speaking other languages.
@@TimsVariety I find it entertaining, so no reason for me to stop you, especially when you make an honest attempt. German is hard afterall, so don't worry.
This needs to be lower in BR
I think this is just a nice way for Tim to say: It's a total piece of sh*t. Don't fly it.
You wanna know the best part of this aircraft? I’m 90% sure that gaijin is gonna put a second one after this one as a „F-4F ICE Late“ variant as a stopgap between this and the Eurofighter Typhoon ☠️☠️☠️
.. don't give them any ideas ..
@@TimsVariety I really don’t want to, but that’s what I honestly believe, since not only is it some weird designation instead of just „F-4F ICE“, but also because it’s so incredibly bad and there’s not much else before the Typhoon
What would this "Late" add? As far as I know this is the latest and greatest of the German F4F
@@luuk341 Exactly my thoughts... Literally the only thing this one is missing are the IRIS-T missiles, and those were just tested on the Phantom, never used operationally, and also never used together with a HMD either
There’s nothing else they could give it so… probably not
Just a small note, they massively buffed mavericks with HEAT along side the hellfire, the D has comparable or better killing power than the G now. Zenturion7 has a great video on it.
I have been informed this was a dev server only change, a sad day for all.
I haven't personally noticed any difference. In testing it for this review, I scored 2 direct hits with the D (one on some italian centaro thing, and another on an MBT), only one was a crit and neither pop'ed the target. All 4 G's that I connected with were 1 hit kills, 2 MBTs, 1 LT, 1 SPAA.
@@TimsVariety Huh, maybe they changed it since dev
@@GooberDthey reverted the changes.
@@coloneljason9094 Damn, that sucks
@@coloneljason9094 they actually didnt? Its on the changelog for the update. And yes they have been massivle buffed. Maybe tims just didnt test enough and he was unlucky with those 2. 65G might still be a little better but on some planes like the f-16 were you have to choose between 3 65d or 1 65g, then the d is the obvious choice
These things flew for so long in Germany that it's unbelievable, but it was liked by the pilots. Fun note, the f4 were called "Luftverteidigungsdiesel" (air defense diesel) due to their notable exhaust spewing black smoke.😅
if ever there was a case for tying BRs to weapon loadouts, it's this patch.
Wish we could take these new planes out to stock grind them without having to see fox3s if we could so choose
phantom........ I am happy the happy face go brrrrrrr
We are getting closer to Typhoon and Rafale, which will be absolutely crazy
Still can’t get over the smiley face at the back of the F-4 lol
You're like the War Thunder Wiki, except you can actually say bad things about vehicles. Unlike Wiki creators.
I do my best to be fair.
Btw my two cents on what do when flying out the my beloved Phantom.
I really focus on getting low, with turned off radar and fly on the flanks. Always having an eye on my RWR, not to get countered. Then I go in after the (in my opinion) idiotic Furball has wrecked booth teams in the center of the map. Go in on targets that are either in a dogfight or still flying high, I do some pop up attacks and in most cases they are either too fast or too close to evade the missile. Keep em locked for Datalink.
Or I fly a bit further along the flanks and hit the people that dumped all their fox 3 missiles and are going RTB. While doing this I also attacked some runways with the Maverick G if there are already people who landed on the unprotected airbase. (people mostly do to safe time)
If I see another F-4F ICE when the match starts, I sometimes try to guard them as wingman and fly in formation with them. Esp. when they are Stockgrinding and need protection, because phantom lovers have to stick together. That way you can split the attention of attacking targets or catch them offguard. Kill them before they kill your Buddy!
There are some vehicles that when they get you, you cant be mad about it. This is one of them
That smiley face honestly seems like a laughing face... laughing at anyone taking out this thing cuz it's seriously just miserable.
Man
I
Love
Fantoms
💀
Total tryhard sweat mode... is there any other way to play this game?
Its good to see it coming to the game, though I think it should have come a patch or two earlier to give it some time in the sun.
My theory is sounding more and more likely after hearing about the real-world history. I think within the next couple patches we'll see the EFT be after this in the tech tree. It makes sense both logically and historical.
Great video as always Tim!
I mean there is literally nothing else to add to that tree and we know that typhoon is coming so you didn't exactly came up with some crazy theory lol
@@wapniak666 well the theory is that since GER got a dog water of a jet Germany is suffering for now. You are right but also I've seen no one talk about it.
I'm talking about it 🤡
@@Tanks.With.Teeth.Malloy what
I don't follow
How is that a theory? That's what happened
We knew typhoon was coming since first 4th gens were released, plenty of people talked about that
Again German has literally nothing else to add, they had f4 in service and then typhoon
@@wapniak666 I call it a theory because we are not 100% sure what the snail will do.
Will they do that? Probably. Are we 100% sure it will happen? No. So that's why it's a theory.
You are having issues with me calling it a theory... whatever you want to call it is fine. Jfc
@@wapniak666 I call it a theory because we are not 100% sure what the snail will do. Will it happen? Probably. Are we 100% sure? No.
So if your only issue is I called it a theory then I'm sorry I called it that. Whatever you want to call it.
Not bad spelled Kampfwertsteigerung Luftverteidigung. ;)
The f-4f ice if waking up on a Thursday morning was a jet
Coming back to this video after some changes to Fox-3's and BRs and I can, 100%, say I wish i could sell the ICE. I would sell it back for 1 SL even. Its so much of a letdown that i partially expect it to get foldered with the F-4F Late and replaced by the Swiss F-18 (if Gaijin were smart.
As ICE is finally released I think it's time for gaijin to rework the two old F-4Fs now. Their weight and weapons are completely wrong!
F18 of the swiss in the german tech tree could help later
or a polish subtree if we really wanna push it
it would kinda make historical sense,
DOA
6:50
doesn't really work when 9/10 games end with the first merge, especially now
unfortunately the best advice for top tier is to not to play
6:55
This is the same fking advice that I say on reddit when you use the F4. I get downvoted or destroyed in the comments when I say this
Yeah ... sometimes the comment section on reddit can be very focused on a very narrow meta....
I get what you are saying, but its just that that isnt what people want from a jet. The ICE always arrives last to a match anyway. Either YOUR entire team is dead, and you get 33612 radar missiles shot your way. OR the whole enemy team is dead and you do nothing. ARB is literally about killing other planes, yet the ICE is forced to play second fiddle. It sucks
@@luuk341 womp womp I guess. There's no getting around that aspect of the F4 unfortunately
Should I fire the Aim120A with TWs or TRK PD? Can you explain the difference pls?
this is at 12.7 while a mig 21 with hmd, irccm, and insane radar missiles is at 11.7, insane
@@doctorothon "Insane radar missile" might be overselling the R27R a tad
@@BlackjackTheLad at 11.7 its insane, the thing can fight kfir canards and j35xs
I don’t get why gaijin couldn’t just give us the France/germany f16 and the f4f ice
Dear god that F-16c player might be the worst in history. There is no way in hell he lost that dogfight to this thing. Lmfao amazing clip
It’s my new Flarakrad
Hitting a-10 with aim120 is always fun
I’m going to make this jet my best K/D rated jet just to spite everyone that hates on it :p already have it at 3.83k/d
I hate when a plane is in multiple tech trees.. especially when the the copy’s are better then the original county’s plane..
Imagine F-4 ICUP.
Why is it BR 13.3 now? Is it on par with F-15, F-16A or MiG-29? I can hardly believe it...
Anything with amraams is artificially bumped up ...
Can someone buy me a pack 50% off?
Good video tim !
Sup Tim
**wave**
So the 9L/I is just a smokey 9M?
Basically, yes.
Mavericks (and hellfires) got a major buff causing much more spalling and overpressure than before. Zenturion took a look at the new changes.
An F4 was flying up until 2013 for a western nation? 🥲….. would not have guessed that.
It lingers a bit as a recon plane a little longer than its combat role.
They use them as remote drones to shoot down for missile testing/ practice.
i remember this was my crutch for german decks in WG:RD planes lol
This will be a good jet in SIM when Gaijin starts bringing 13.x jets. It will be the only amramm jet below 13.0
Harrier too right?
Tell me you'll do the Harrier FA2 at some point, everyone is refusing to play it but I'd love an in depth video on it like you do
At some point, but I have some other projects to finish up first.
@@TimsVariety oh yeah, no need to rush, everything in due time
I have a question:
Im not an aviation expert (im more of an enthusiast), so my question is.
Whats next?
I mean whats next in terms of weapons and aircraft?
Thanks for the content as always
Well basically only radar seeking air to ground missiles, so anti radiation missiles that seek out radar sourses aka spaas with radar
And then generally always better missiles of what we have rn. Later IR missiles, like the iris-T, we can get for example can target a plane behind the plane, in this case the Eurogighter, that fires it
@@FM-hw8yv how are they Better than normal air-to ground?
@@luigipignatale7790 cause they specifically Auto target Like fox 3 missiles onto Radar Spaas. Imagine it like ground fox 3s that target only one Type of vehicles....the one that is the main threat against the Planes themselfes
1 view in 7secs bro fell off
Grow up
Damn this dude won’t even give RUclipsrs a single SECOND before he makes the judgment of viewership