Nelson got the very first Simpsons History and I was still figuring out how to research and organize them, so I think he deserves a second video. Also, we can never have enough Nelson content out there 😛
"Oh for god's sake, I can see why he left..." is one of my absolute favourite later-season Marge lines, it's so weirdly out-of-character, but I think that makes it even funnier.
I liked it, but can still admit that it's really ooc for Marge. BUT, I was also never on the 'Oh, poor poor Nelson!' train either. I grew up from the earliest seasons onward, so to me, Nelson was permanently a more genuinely mean-spirited, violent kid to contrast Bart's Puckish rogue. To show sympathy towards him and it not be predicated on deceit or misunderstanding reminded me too much of the kids I knew in real-life... who were genuinely mean-spirited and violent, but knew how to turn on the 'Oh, poor me from a broken home" schtick to get sympathy.
I think thats what makes it funny. Its so out of character, its that little peak of what we never really see but she might be thinking, that little bit of "lois griffin" in her
The obvious solution is to make the very tall man Nelson’s new father figure. 1. He has a car so he has some sort of financial stability even if it is quite small 2. He showed some willingness to reason with Nelson about why him being laughed at was mean spirited. However upon Nelson failing to understand his actions have consequences 3. He then shows Nelson some discipline which is sometimes necessary as a father figure 4. And finally he’s very tall so Mrs. Muntz would probably go for him. It’s the obvious and best thing for Nelson.
We need when Homer went bald for a Simpsons Mysteries. It bothers me so goddamn much. In Lisa’s Sax, Homer is completely bald, but even in 1 year flashbacks, we see that Homer still has the tiniest bit of hair. In Barthood. Lisa is five, and Homer still has a lot of hair. Contrasting Lisa’s 3 and 3 8ths age in Lisa’s Sax, I’m probably going into this too much lol. Edit: holy crap hopefully Jims sees this, it has more likes than his comment lol.
@@joel198d yeah but even that’s inconsistent. He rips out all but three of his hair when he finds out that Marge was pregnant with Lisa. But, like I said, even if that’s true, in Lisa’s Sax Homer has his classic two hair look. I know I’m going into this way too much lol.
The Nelson-Moe duo idea is even better the more I think about it. Moe is pragmatic and persuasive enough to get on Nelson’s good side and be a positive influence. But due to his slimy and violent side, he could never really stop Nelson as a bully or be a perfect father. They both can change each other in interesting ways while still retaining the characters core struggle for episodic storytelling.
Top right looks a bit like Duffman without his sunglasses, and down and left of that appears to be a tanner Artie Ziff attempting to avoid being recognized.
Whenever The Simpsons decides it's time to start wrapping up the show and everyone's storylines, I think they should commit to Moe adopting Nelson. With this and Maya's return, it'd feel like a pretty satisfactory ending.
I used to think Nelson could find it un such an obscure character like Zachary Vaughn. Because it Is time the show revisited some one-timers/very little important characters (specially if they are voiced by the main staff actors and not by a celebrity guest star) and i think it could be a good way to complement characters since Nelson could help him to control his alcohol addition and Vaughn would give him the education he needs
I think it would be sweet if Nelson got super protective over his foster mother Maya. The schoolyard kids make fun of her and he beats them up, and when Nelson's real mom gets angry about it, he shoots her down 'She's half the height of you, but she's more than twice the mother you've ever been!'
I agree. I didn't talk about Maya in the video but it would be really sweet if, considering his aloof biological mom, he and Maya became very close and protective of each other
My theory with Nelson's dad is that he's similar to Jamie Tartt's dad from Ted Lasso. He abandoned Nelson when he was young, but comes back when he sees something he's good at to try and exploit him. Explains why he coaches him in one episode, picks him up from football, and shows up in the documentary episode when Nelson is playing basketball.
We've also seen Moe be a good father-figue/ good with kids from when he babysat Maggie. If the writers actually wanted to give Nelson some happiness, Moe as a father figure is perfect
they've made multiple recurring references to the fact that moe uses his spare time to read books to kids at libraries, community centers, and cancer wards. we've physically seen him get teary eyed while finishing a couple of books during these reading sessions, the one i can remember right now is "Little Women". Moe is good with kids and donates a lot of his time to kids programs and outreach, he just doesn't like other people talking about it and doesn't advertise it. moe's an alright guy. no class, but an alright guy.
Has anyone else noticed Groundskeeper Willie is never seen using the same mop twice? There's always subtle differences. Someone should totally look deeper into Groundskeeper Willie.
i've always just assumed groundskeeper Willie's shed is like the "Gun Closet" in a hitman movie just with cleaning supplies intead of guns, with a rack of mops and brooms of various stiffnesses for different purposes, sets of different plungers hanging on hooks on the wall along with a handcrank pipesnake tool, 50 pound sacks of ajax cleaning powder and that artificial sawdust stuff for absorbing vomit, a box of dynamite sticks for dealing with gophers, and a scottish claymore hanging on the wall above the workbench. etc.
Crazy how they kept flip-flopping on the design of his dad, the fact that each one has its own kind of characterisation too. It's so consistently inconsistent.
I love the idea of Nelson having a Big Brother/Big Sister kind of guy and Moe would be great for this. Obviously Nelson and Moe get emotionally beat up hard and I think having them to be able to bounce off each other, even if it is just having Nelson help out at the tavern after work until his mom is done at work (the little extra cash would even help Nelson treat his mom better!). Plus, they could do an episode where Nelson recognizes Bart's voice and it could be a whole fun little B-plot about it Edit: obviously Nelson already could tell it was Bart, but my point still stands
I used to think Nelson could find it un such an obscure character like Zachary Vaughn. Because it Is time the show revisited some one-timers/very little important characters (specially if they are voiced by the main staff actors and not by a celebrity guest star) and i think it could be a good way to complement characters since Nelson could help him to control his alcohol addition and Vaughn would give him the education he needs
*I love the idea of Nelson having a Big Brother/Big Sister kind of guy and Moe would be great for this* What's funny is i think Moe actually IS a Big Brother Volunteer. i know canonically in one episode they mention he does a bunch of kids outreach program stuff on the down low and just doesn't like people talking about it, and they rolled with that for a good while. we've seen in multiple episodes when they needed to explain moe's absence for one reason or another, they'd cut away to a shot of him reading to kids in a library or a community center. i know for a fact he read the end of "Little Women" to a group of kids on one occasion.
I feel like there's a story in addressing the two clearly different Nelson's Dad characters - Soccer dad and Abandonment dad. Maybe his mum didn't know for sure which of these similar-looking men she slept with was actually the father and told them both they were at different (or the same) times to get support raising him, financial or otherwise, and during his early years he saw these men interchangeably/simultaneously as his dad. Maybe Abandonment dad stuck around more permanently but she continued and on-again/off-again thing with Soccer dad so he was around sporadically even after AD left. Maybe they had a polyamory thing going on for a while that didn't work out. Because you know what's more tragic than Nelson's dad leaving? Nelson having two dads who are equally important to him BOTH leaving in different ways.
i would love to see a Top 10 or 20 best simpsons B plots/ opening set pieces. some of them are really fun, like the mayo clinic visit and homer selling sugar. a top 20 worst would be cool too, like that weird one when bart and lisa are obsessed w that balloon, it's maybe only 2 scenes
Yes that would be awesome! Here's my top 10 B-plots: - Pile of sugar - Maggie gets adopted by grizzly bears (cutest thing ever) - Maggie in the daycare centre - Homer's "Improve your vocabulary" hypnosis tape - Mr Sparkle - Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag - "Is my brother dumber than a hamster?" - Lionel Hutz, babysitter (aka Miguel Sanchez) - Grampa works in Krusty Burger - Luanne stops Bart from seeing Milhouse (I like that it goes for emotional rather than wacky)
@@alexneill8338 The pile of sugar wins for me, mostly for Homer's facial expressions during his rant. Especially at the end with "What's to be done with this Homer Simpson?"
“Imagine having a bad childhood and being stuck in it for 30 years” *laughs in PTSD* Seriously though, I love what the writers have done with Nelson over the years. He’s one of the most iconic secondary characters on the Simpsons and I do kinda hope he ends up with at least someone in his life he can turn to in more than just one episode, even if the rest of his life is pretty tough. There could be an interesting dynamic there and at the end of the day, you can’t help but want him to succeed in some way, or at least catch a break once in a while
I think what I'd like to see with Nelson most is something you touched on - not for him to get a new dad (although that would be nice), but his relationship with his mom to improve. It never really occurred to me until now how messed up it is that this working class woman who has very clearly been dealt a bad hand in life is constantly getting dunked on by the show, portrayed as a fuck up, and shamed for being a sex worker, especially since a lot of men in the show who could also be seen as 'screw ups', like Moe, are portrayed a lot more sympathetically and with a lot more nuance than she is. I think it'd be great to get a spotlight episode that goes into her background and her struggles as a working class single mother, fleshing her out as a character, and ends with her vowing to be a more attentive mother to Nelson. After all, the kid has it hard enough with his dad constantly abandoning him, the least the writer's could do would be to give him a decent mom. It'd be a way to give Nelson a sort of 'happy ending' without majorly changing the status quo or taking away potential stories. Nelson would still have a lot of baggage for the writers to exploit; living in poverty, his daddy issues, etc. but at the very least we'd know that he has one stable adult figure in his life. Plus, it'd allow the writers to add another adult female character to the supporting cast, which would be a plus.
I'm entirely in favour of this after how well they handled Sarah Wiggum when they finally got round to her being more than just Clancy's wife and Ralph's mum who didn't do anything
I also think what Nelson's mom needs is a spotlight episodes that shows her struggles and attempts to be a good mother. Though after decades of her being portrayed as neflectful and uncaring, people might not buy it.
Has she had any episodes that gave her some spotlight? I can’t remember her saying anything in any episodes and that’s a bit rude tbh. I can only remember sr hibbert talking even in episodes where she’s shown. But i can imagine she’s meant to be a lawyer just like the character she’s presumably based off - Claire Huxtable
You could easily upgrade Nelson's life and have Jimbo, Dulp & Kerny as the replacement characters. There have been a number of times where it is implied those 3 aren't living much better than Nelson but they are much less sympathetic. Nelson basically became Bart's other best friend and is far from the early seasons' bully character. He deserves something of a long-term win.
I think Nelson's dad being present in the earlier seasons can be explained by not taking the episodes as they were released, but as different points in time, in the same ways some episodes show Barney being sober and others have him reverting to his alcoholic self. Since the Simpsons is episodic, barring a couple of major events, most notably the death of Maude, Milhouse's parents getting a divorce, Edna's relationship with Skinner and later Flanders, Sideshow Bob's episodes, and so on, there's nothing stopping us from thinking that all the episodes with jokes about his father missing for 15 years take place before Sleeping With The Enemy, at which point he reappears, and that's where the rest of his appearances slot in, and then he presumably disappeared again, which leads into episodes like Better Off Ned.
I always thought the joke about Nelson's dad abandoning him, was to make Nelson seem more sympathetic & give a reason why Nelson is a bully. What if they took a Puss In Boots: The Last wish direction in the future? Make Nelson more behaved with a father figure with Moe, but introduce a new bully who is just unhinged & has a very good family. Maybe that could have worked with Barney take away his alcoholism but give those jokes to another tavern regular or give Barney a new vice or trait you can actually make jokes out of.
We've seen two different versions of Nelson's Dad in the show. And they both have different features and trails. One is a coach for Nelson football or baseball team. And the other one is a the one who Nelson thought run away but instead was forced into a circus freak job after a peanut allergy accident.
I feel like Moe and Nelson could just get a few moments together without either character having to change. Nelson can care and be cared for by someone and Moe can show more of his fatherly side. Neither would have to fundamentally change if it's Moe as a mentor, we know Moe is pretty poor so it's not like it would really change Nelson's financial situation and Nelson wouldn't have to be nice to anyone else except Moe and his wife.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 sometimes he's shown in flashback as being the same as homer, lenny and carl, sometimes he's shown as a teen while the others are still kids and there is one instance where there's a picture of him running an ice cream shop being an adult and showing the rest as kids.
@@matti.8465 I think the yeti was his mother and the circus freak was his father and that the Szyslaks from "King Leer" are his adoptive family. What do you think?
It should be noted that Nelson's grandfather is a judge whom has sent several to death row. It's not clear however whether the judge is his paternal or maternal grandfather.
16:54 Finally, thanks for someone remembering Ling! I don't know why they don't want to use her anymore, she could make more for Selma and her life! Also, i like the idea of Nelson working in Moe's Tavern, with him having a sketchy but caring mentor. I hope they don't mess the whole Moe and Maya thing, is such an exciting change and i don't want them to chicken out like with Edna and Skinner.
I am a big fan of both Moe and Nelson so I’m a big fan of the story idea, but I think taking it a step further and giving them a found family would work great. Moe getting married and adopting a child is the perfect found family group to do episodes around. If we’ve had a hundred Simpson family stories, why not 20 Szyslak stories
Moe would be an absent father figure as well. Outside of kid's hockey, he really doesn't have a home or stability himself so he can't really give what he doesn't have either. He's at Moe's Tavern almost always for 30+ seasons outside of that recent episode, so therefore he could potentially 'be' Nelson's dad as an absent father figure who eventually won't be able to be there and therefore maintain the 'status quo' of Nelson's backstory. I guess his coaching a kid's hockey team without being a dad himself was motivated by rivalry with the King Toot guy. Moe and Nelson initially establish a working relationship where ultimately Nelson wants more from his 'primary' which I think Moe appreciates when he realizes it but Nelson hanging out at Moe's bar seems like a worse or at least less legal option than a trailer with his mom.
Wow, as an aspiring writer this video speaks to me, especially the topic of when to absolve characters of their problems. I love the late father figures of Nelson, it's a very captivating experimentation. I think good writing often tries to change the status quo for characters to good or even poor effect, and even here, in this “glacial-paced” endless sitcom, we see the sparks of imagination of the writers. I love to see characters change-or like here, try to. Thank you RealJims, this is my favorite video of yours yet.
I think you hit on a possible future episode right at the end. An episode where Nelson and Moe are still pals and then Barney appears in the plot. Then we are teased with the possibility of Barney being Nelson's dead by playing into that untapped artistic and passionate side of Barney we got from the earlier years.
This is a very complex video. Truly a fantastic project! I definitely vote for Barney as Nelson’s true dad! They would be really fun together in my opinion. I also love how you squeezed in Nelson x Lisa. Still a fantastic ship. I definitely imagine Lisa cringing a little if either Moe or Barney has to walk her down at the isle though. That wedding would be wacky! Nelson is indeed a compelling character. I hope he does get his happy storyline one day!
I'm an avid watcher of seasons 1-10 and no further, so I mostly miss a lot of the later arcs. But even with what I have seen, I wanted to see Moe and Nelson hang out. I always felt they made so much sense together. I am glad that was taken advantage of, and honestly would like to see that happen more even if I haven't seen much of recent Simpsons.
I laughed at first when I saw the wall of Nelson's days but then I became sad when I saw that Bleeding Gums Murphy tried to be his dad/mentor. He didn't abandon him like the others, he died :( Also I would like to see a Simpson's mysteries episode about Kearny's age. How old is he suppose to be and he's still in grade school? lol
Great episode, this! You raise some good points about the bind the writers are in. Love that the old fan theory was brought up, even if at the last moment.
I love these character stories! I stopped watching Simpsons in 9th grade in 2002 and only catch the treehouse of horror each year it's great to see what characters are up to! Also can't believe it took this long to pair nelson and moe. The perfect pairing I never thought of!
I feel like Moe adopting Nelson would make both of them more interesting. Moe and Nelson have similar traits and I feel like Nelson being raised by Moe wouldn't ruin him at all! Imagine a centered episode of the two being together and Bart prank calls Moe. Like usual everyone laughs while he gets depressed instead of angry then add Nelson he can do a taken reference where he hunts down Bart for Moe. I feel Moe would teach Nelson so much stuff and Nelson would help Moe be finally happy with a son and a wife.
@@danielshaffer-green5684that sent me down a rabbit hole lol. I couldn't find snakes Cannon age but I found a reference to an episode where snake was 13 and Wiggum was 16. Wiggum was Also 16 when homers mom abandoned him and Homer was 9. Meaning snake is actually 4 years older than Homer. I could be wrong, I just googled and followed that chain of info but yeah I'm fairly sure. Homer needs to take better care of himself, dude look's like shit compared to snake lol
@@danielshaffer-green5684 yeah pretty crazy. According to meta ai snake has never hooked up with Nelsons mom but then it gave me a paragraph where it pretty much called her a ho without saying those exact words haha.
I think they should just keep cycling through Nelson father figures: the sea captain, superintendent Chalmers, duff man, Kirk Van Houten, Dr. Colossus, sideshow mel
yo realjims i know this doesn't really have to do much with this video specifically but i just want to say your videos are always a treat to watch and i look forward to your uploads, thank you for doing what you do :)
"Another kid in Fort McMurrary" Oh geez! For those who don't know Fort McMurrary is the oilsands city in Alberta Canada, it has a reputation for being a "temporary" spot for a lot of people to live in while they make some quick money (temporary was in quotations for a reason)
I think Moe and Nelson make a fun duo, even if its only for 1 (or a few) episodes. I don't think either work well as characters without their edges but seeing the two be happy and bond is a nice change from laughing at their expense
I think one episode of nelson and mr burns would be so good, both of them throwing rocks at school kids from a limo while they both yell HaHa. They could even make it a big moment for nelsons character, have him start the episode wanting a father but after his time with burns falls appart he come out more confident in a "ha, i dont need him" moment. that allows them to keep the status quo while still paying off that storyline
So is his last name (Muntz / Munts?) taken from his mother's maiden name? If they haven't given away his father's last name, it'd be an interesting reveal if his last name is Gumble (Or, however Barney's last name is spelled). This would also be a fascinating twist considering the recent Moe pairing. Moe has been helping aid the alcohol addiction to Nelson's dad's brother all these years
I could see it as a story and creative perspective to venture down the route of Moe and Nelson. Found it fun and we could see them fulfill each other's lives.
I like the idea of Moe and Nelson becoming something closer to father and son. Especially if they confirmed Barney was his father. If Barney ever goes back to drinking it'd be a nice bit of dramatic irony that he's so close, but so far from his father.
I kind of like the idea of Nelson's real father being Barney, he already has two supposedly biological fathers, why not add a third?! I guess it would also add an interesting new element to Nelson's dynamic with Moe.
I really like seeing the character development across the series, Lisa becoming a vegetarian and a Buddhist, Edna and Skinner, Ned losing Maude, Comic Book Guy and Kumiko, Moe with Maya I honestly really hope we see more changes in the future. Nelson would be a great character to see catch a break, and Moe is easily the best candidate for a father figure in the future. If the show didn’t want anything too permanent then try others too like Krusty or maybe give him a new maternal figure like Agnes that would be entertaining. Nelson and Lisa is definitely a more interesting couple than Lisa and Milhouse anything that can help set that up is a bonus
I hadn’t really thought about it until you pointed it out but you’re right: Nelson is probably the best developed character in the show outside of The Simpsons themselves, and maybe Mr. Burns. I did realize myself, though, that Nelson is kind of special. He is invariably more than the sum of his parts. I cannot think of a character in the show that he has interacted with that has somehow not benefited both characters by the dynamic. So yeah, I would like him to have a happy ending, or if not that, and I would like him to have some sort of recognition from the other characters. Even if it’s some thing, like realizing how vastly much worse he really should be all things considered. Just the fact that he is tortured soul and still manages to be mostly functional would be enough. And mow would be a great vehicle for that.
@@mahatmarandy5977 My headcanon has always been that after Gina gets out of juvie, she'll be adopted by Moe, as she's similar to him just like Nelson is, and she has no family. And then after she and Nelson start dating, he would come to live with them because he can't stand living with his mother. Do you think that's a good idea?
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Yeah, it’s not bad. The dating part is a little problematic because he’s only like 12 I think, so I can see why they wouldn’t want to head down that road except maybe in a flash-forward episode, but it’s not bad at all. In my own headcanon, Nelson ends up working with/for Lisa in the future. Nothing romantic, but they’ve just got a long history and they trust each other. So she ends up taking him with her in whatever she ends up doing later in life, and he’s protective of her. Basically he’s the brother Bart *should* have been to her. :)
Growing up I always assumed that Nelson's dad was the owner of the bowling alley. I mean, they look very much alike, and I thought the joke was that he had ran away from home but he didn't even skip town, he remained in Springfield but out of chance neither Nelson nor his mother had ran into him again.
Before 2023 ends, didn't expect to hear, "laying pipe" from you, haha! Love your vids, haven't seen the show in years but you condense it perfectly, thanks Jim(s)!
This episode really highlighted something I hadn't consciously realised before, but has absolutely been true of the Simpsons even during the Golden Era- there isn't really a sympathetic lower-income character. Both Nelson's parents and Cletus are treated as moral failures as part of the joke, and are otherwise flat characters. You could maybe highlight Lenny- but, really, the (one time) joke with him is that he lives like he does despite having a Nuclear Power Plant's middle-income wage, and goes to great pains to hide it. Nelson's kind of the closest we get. And even then his situation is treated more about being his Parent's moral failings, and not his own. After all, he's too young to actually earn money. It's entirely possible- and likely- I've forgotten someone, but I am getting this uncomfortable sensation of lower class = bad and deserving of it from the show now. Considering how long it's been going on, I'm surprised an episode that turns Nelson's Mum into a more layered character hasn't happened yet. She deserves it at this point
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Besides his childhood abandonment and constant bad luck- he had earned a Master's Degree in physics, and, well, throughout the episode, a decently paying job.
@@peterprime2140 fair enough. Nuclear power plant wages must be whatever Burns feels like at a given time. Either that, or he's still paying off student debt for his degree. Still- I think the point stands. Grimes is sympathetic because he represents the American ideal that poverty can be risen out of through hard work and grit. He subverts his situation with sheer determination, and isn't seen as a moral failure as a result. This in turn reflects badly on characters like Cletus and Nelson's Mum, because the show never suggests that their situation is ever anything further than their own depravity- drinking, child neglect, supposedly degrading job choices, etc etc I just think there's a whole angle left unexplored here, which for a show that is trying to wring out as much as it can from its characters at this point (by even sending Nelson to Mars), I feel it's odd that this particular angle hasn't really felt explored under a deeper light. I mean unless it has in some post-Golden Age episode I haven't seen, which, admittedly, isn't many of them
With The Simpsons writers, it's usually gags over plot or character development, but they've been really diving into the latter the past few years. I don't think Nelson having a stable home life takes away from the character being a bully. We didn't know his dad abandoned him for how many seasons, and he still worked as that character. I think it's a tired old trope that a bully's a bully because there's something wrong with their home lives because they're someone to pity. I've never met a bully IRL that didn't have a decent home life with either a clueless "pfft, not MY child" or a straight up enabler parent. Besides, you look at other sympathetic "bully" characters (i.e. Binky Barnes from Arthur or Gian from Doraemon), and they have actually loving parents. Personally, when it comes to Nelson, I'm annoyed that the writers can't make up their minds if he's Bart's friend or not. If we're talking derailed character development, what about all the way back in Bart the General where he signed a treaty to never bully again. I like the concept for Bart being the popular character, a devilish prankster and underachiever that is looked up to by the bullies and the dorks alike. I always thought that Bart belongs with Nelson and the bully trio a little more than Milhouse or sometimes Martin. I want to see the relationship where Bart invites Nelson over his house to put a train on a slot car track, have it melt, and wants to dump some crud on it.
Where I think Nelson and and Mr Burns could work is not as a son but as a grandson. Like He's Burn's heir, but Burns only wants so much to do with him. He'll occasionally give him a few dollars and advice being evil, maybe even comfort him if he's down. but he doesn't want the reasonability of razing a child. When Nelson tries to stay at Burns's house for more than a few minutes, he's on thin ice. But if Nelson does something very ambitious on his own, Burns will praise him.
Well now I have a whole pitch for a Moe and Nelson/Homer and Maya -> Homer and Lisa episode. I really enjoyed the new episode and I am here for more Top Goon discussion!
I was surpiced to learn that Nelson's dad abandoned him so late in the series run. I somehow remembered his dad "leaving to get cigarettes" happening much earlier, like season 5 or 7
I didn't even know there was a s34 or that they brought back the lil woman, but that Nelson-Moe story seemed really wholesome. I wish the show ended already and let them be happy...
With inconsistency of Nelson's father designs, it even looks like he has two simultaneously existing canonic dads: one that continues to fly off, and "sport" one, each with his own distinctive design and personality. Maybe it's "Mamma Mia" situation, they're both *possible* biological fathers, Mrs Muntz just never made her mind, which one is truly)) As with best father figure, variant with Moe feels like having most potential, simply because series latched on to Moe's miserable loveless life (and his fruitless crush on Marge) for too long, changing it without losing interest in his character by pairing him with another disastrous person may be good direction, even not necessarily getting in the way of his seemingly happy prospective marriage with Maya. Their collective dynamics can provide needed beta (dysfunctional) family narrative to main one, something series apparently kept to attempt in past with Edna-Skinner and then Edna-Flanders storylines.
I always thought since we never saw his father and they look similar… that Nelson’s dad was Snake. It made sense to me when I was younger. I still wonder if he or Herman weren’t meant to be possibly his father earlier on.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 I don’t think Homer and Marge necessarily look their supposed ages. Besides, what’s to say Snake couldn’t have started young?
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting I guess it could work in theory. I'm pretty sure Nelson is supposed to be like 12, while Snake's age is never confirmed, but he appears to be in his late 20s. That would mean that he had Nelson when he was highschool-aged, which definitely isn't out of the question, especially considering the kind of person that he is.
The easy solution to the should Nelson get a good parental figure or new living situation thing: Get Nelson’s mom to go through a redemption arc. Hear me out. It’s no father figure, sure. But Mrs Muntz getting her shit together (vices/parenting wise) could give Nelson at least some stability and balance in his life. I know it would be hard to make a chracter like Nelson’s mom sympathetic due to the callousness she’s shown towards her son. But maybe something could happen to her to change her perspective. like a near death experience or general mid life crisis where she realises how much she’s screwed up her life, which makes her realise the only meaningful thing she has left is her son and tries to make amends with him in her own fumbling, rough around the edges way, we could get some compelling drama out of her trying (and 2 out of 3 times failing) to turn things around with her own issues and with Nelson, but Nelson (completely justifiably) being apprehensive about or rejecting these attempts. You’d know mrs muntz wants to earnestly change and turn things around, but you also understand why Nelson would still reject her despite how much she wants to try for him, due to her mistreatment of him in the past. If she does get her act together and/or Nelson does come around, you’d still have his other struggles like Nelson and his moms bad economic and living conditions, and the whole daddy issues stuff that would make him rough around the edges bully, but have some one whose there him and supporting him with his mom. A sort of having cake and eating it too type of thing. Maybe even give it a comedic twist with Nelson’s mom supportive of Nelson and cheating him on as he beats the crap out of some squares. Their life is crap and they’re both jerks, but they’d be on the same page about it for once. I totally get why this might not work, but it could be an interesting direction to take the muntz family.
Seeing all the changes of Flanders you mentioned I have to wonder what are the biggest missed opportunities in the Simpsons. Still think the whole ned/Edna could have been amazing but sadly we'll never know. Rip.
Thanks for posting the names of artist for the background music! I've searched for the name of the background song to the Simpsons Mysteries for a while now, and finnaly found it thanks to this video :) Thanks a million!
I think it’d be neat to have Nelson work part time at Moe’s. You don’t necessarily have to have a full episode about it, but I think you could get some decent mileage by having Nelson pop up in the bar from time to time.
I think it would've been interesting if they'd made Moe Nelson's Uncle in the mid seasons Moe is definitely a mixed bag that would've worked in the long run being close but not always there for Nelson
It always bothered me how lazy they were with Nelson's dad's character design/continuity. I like to imagine that his mom just dated multiple look-alike guys that Nelson confused for his real father. Not sure which one is his bio' dad. Probably Barmbley Grumble!
It's super fanfiiccy, but this kinda made me hanker for a Moe-Selma-Nelson-Ling combination. Hell, they could function as a whole family foil to the Simpsons, what with the antagonism between Selma & Homer and Nelson & Bart and even Moe & Midge. Keep going in the same direction with Ling as an overachiever to put her up against Lisa & Maggie and you have something that could be really interesting
Just recently watched top goon and I do like the Nelson and Moe's chemistry (could even lead to a gag where Moe thinks Barney could be Nelson's Dad). There was also something I have been something I 've been noticing lately. We are seeing Krusty's daughter Sophie more and more, when are we going to have an episode where Sophie and Bart date for a one off episode (or could she be his perfect match?)
Something that I think might work for Nelson is if Moe does join the family but Nelson doesn’t get to see him all the time since he works at the tavern so much but when they do meet, they have a lot of fun. But then you can introduce a new aspect of Nelson to explore. Now he finally has something stable that won’t leave but it’s not his dad and there’s not really any replacing your own dad. So while he appreciates Moe and wants him to stay, in the end it didn’t fill the hole in him like he has been hoping all this time
If you think about it; Nelson's dad COULD still be a mystery. Given his mom's reputation; she could have easily been sleeping around and doesn't know for sure which guy actually got her pregnant, so she's just been tracking down old ONSs, telling them and Nelson they're his dad, and then them finding out the truth and bailing.
Nelson got the very first Simpsons History and I was still figuring out how to research and organize them, so I think he deserves a second video. Also, we can never have enough Nelson content out there 😛
Cram it 👊
Great video! It's always a blast to see one of yours pop up in my feed :)
i'll watch basically anything you put out
@@Naomi_Zone quit simping dude
@@deadmeatjb this ^^^
"Oh for god's sake, I can see why he left..." is one of my absolute favourite later-season Marge lines, it's so weirdly out-of-character, but I think that makes it even funnier.
Pa-pa...?
I liked it, but can still admit that it's really ooc for Marge. BUT, I was also never on the 'Oh, poor poor Nelson!' train either. I grew up from the earliest seasons onward, so to me, Nelson was permanently a more genuinely mean-spirited, violent kid to contrast Bart's Puckish rogue. To show sympathy towards him and it not be predicated on deceit or misunderstanding reminded me too much of the kids I knew in real-life... who were genuinely mean-spirited and violent, but knew how to turn on the 'Oh, poor me from a broken home" schtick to get sympathy.
'That poor man. I hope somebody *does* kill him."
I remember my mom laughing at it, it mightve been very in character
I think thats what makes it funny. Its so out of character, its that little peak of what we never really see but she might be thinking, that little bit of "lois griffin" in her
The obvious solution is to make the very tall man Nelson’s new father figure.
1. He has a car so he has some sort of financial stability even if it is quite small
2. He showed some willingness to reason with Nelson about why him being laughed at was mean spirited. However upon Nelson failing to understand his actions have consequences
3. He then shows Nelson some discipline which is sometimes necessary as a father figure
4. And finally he’s very tall so Mrs. Muntz would probably go for him.
It’s the obvious and best thing for Nelson.
You may be on to something
I think we should not learn VTM's name in such a scenario
@@morrisonnolan5687 Stretch Tallman
@@morrisonnolan5687 Shorty Tallman
I’m cool with this
We need when Homer went bald for a Simpsons Mysteries. It bothers me so goddamn much. In Lisa’s Sax, Homer is completely bald, but even in 1 year flashbacks, we see that Homer still has the tiniest bit of hair. In Barthood. Lisa is five, and Homer still has a lot of hair. Contrasting Lisa’s 3 and 3 8ths age in Lisa’s Sax, I’m probably going into this too much lol. Edit: holy crap hopefully Jims sees this, it has more likes than his comment lol.
What are we to believe, that these are some kind of magic follicles or something? Boy I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder
Didn’t he keep ripping out his hair each time marge told him she was pregnant
@@joel198d yeah but even that’s inconsistent. He rips out all but three of his hair when he finds out that Marge was pregnant with Lisa. But, like I said, even if that’s true, in Lisa’s Sax Homer has his classic two hair look. I know I’m going into this way too much lol.
A wizard did it
Please do this ❤
The Nelson-Moe duo idea is even better the more I think about it.
Moe is pragmatic and persuasive enough to get on Nelson’s good side and be a positive influence. But due to his slimy and violent side, he could never really stop Nelson as a bully or be a perfect father.
They both can change each other in interesting ways while still retaining the characters core struggle for episodic storytelling.
P.D. Great breakdown Jim
That corkboard of father figures is something else. The thought of Hank Scorpio as a mentor to Nelson makes me sad we never got that episode.
Top right looks a bit like Duffman without his sunglasses, and down and left of that appears to be a tanner Artie Ziff attempting to avoid being recognized.
@Belgand and Lou is on there as well as the Capital City Goofball.
@@Belgand I thought it looked more like one of the legitimate businessmen
Man, we could've had Nelson seize the West coast to impress his father figure >:(
Whenever The Simpsons decides it's time to start wrapping up the show and everyone's storylines, I think they should commit to Moe adopting Nelson. With this and Maya's return, it'd feel like a pretty satisfactory ending.
I used to think Nelson could find it un such an obscure character like Zachary Vaughn. Because it Is time the show revisited some one-timers/very little important characters (specially if they are voiced by the main staff actors and not by a celebrity guest star) and i think it could be a good way to complement characters since Nelson could help him to control his alcohol addition and Vaughn would give him the education he needs
Maya?
@@MaxOaklandMoe's girlfriend with dwarfism. She had two major appearances.
"The Many Dads of Nelson Muntz" sounds like a a really depressing John Cassavetes movie.
He had a father, I have yet to see him have a Dad
More youtube comments need to reference John Cassavetes lmao
I think it would be sweet if Nelson got super protective over his foster mother Maya. The schoolyard kids make fun of her and he beats them up, and when Nelson's real mom gets angry about it, he shoots her down 'She's half the height of you, but she's more than twice the mother you've ever been!'
I agree. I didn't talk about Maya in the video but it would be really sweet if, considering his aloof biological mom, he and Maya became very close and protective of each other
My theory with Nelson's dad is that he's similar to Jamie Tartt's dad from Ted Lasso. He abandoned Nelson when he was young, but comes back when he sees something he's good at to try and exploit him. Explains why he coaches him in one episode, picks him up from football, and shows up in the documentary episode when Nelson is playing basketball.
Like Herb Powell
We've also seen Moe be a good father-figue/ good with kids from when he babysat Maggie.
If the writers actually wanted to give Nelson some happiness, Moe as a father figure is perfect
they've made multiple recurring references to the fact that moe uses his spare time to read books to kids at libraries, community centers, and cancer wards. we've physically seen him get teary eyed while finishing a couple of books during these reading sessions, the one i can remember right now is "Little Women". Moe is good with kids and donates a lot of his time to kids programs and outreach, he just doesn't like other people talking about it and doesn't advertise it. moe's an alright guy. no class, but an alright guy.
Has anyone else noticed Groundskeeper Willie is never seen using the same mop twice? There's always subtle differences. Someone should totally look deeper into Groundskeeper Willie.
Don’t touch Willie good advice
You weren’t meant to notice the mop. Best you pretend you didn’t. Best you moved on.
i've always just assumed groundskeeper Willie's shed is like the "Gun Closet" in a hitman movie just with cleaning supplies intead of guns, with a rack of mops and brooms of various stiffnesses for different purposes, sets of different plungers hanging on hooks on the wall along with a handcrank pipesnake tool, 50 pound sacks of ajax cleaning powder and that artificial sawdust stuff for absorbing vomit, a box of dynamite sticks for dealing with gophers, and a scottish claymore hanging on the wall above the workbench. etc.
Crazy how they kept flip-flopping on the design of his dad, the fact that each one has its own kind of characterisation too. It's so consistently inconsistent.
I love the idea of Nelson having a Big Brother/Big Sister kind of guy and Moe would be great for this. Obviously Nelson and Moe get emotionally beat up hard and I think having them to be able to bounce off each other, even if it is just having Nelson help out at the tavern after work until his mom is done at work (the little extra cash would even help Nelson treat his mom better!). Plus, they could do an episode where Nelson recognizes Bart's voice and it could be a whole fun little B-plot about it
Edit: obviously Nelson already could tell it was Bart, but my point still stands
I used to think Nelson could find it un such an obscure character like Zachary Vaughn. Because it Is time the show revisited some one-timers/very little important characters (specially if they are voiced by the main staff actors and not by a celebrity guest star) and i think it could be a good way to complement characters since Nelson could help him to control his alcohol addition and Vaughn would give him the education he needs
*I love the idea of Nelson having a Big Brother/Big Sister kind of guy and Moe would be great for this*
What's funny is i think Moe actually IS a Big Brother Volunteer. i know canonically in one episode they mention he does a bunch of kids outreach program stuff on the down low and just doesn't like people talking about it, and they rolled with that for a good while. we've seen in multiple episodes when they needed to explain moe's absence for one reason or another, they'd cut away to a shot of him reading to kids in a library or a community center. i know for a fact he read the end of "Little Women" to a group of kids on one occasion.
@@gourdguru I love that Little Women scene. I think that's one of the first times you see the cracks in Moe's facade.
I feel like there's a story in addressing the two clearly different Nelson's Dad characters - Soccer dad and Abandonment dad. Maybe his mum didn't know for sure which of these similar-looking men she slept with was actually the father and told them both they were at different (or the same) times to get support raising him, financial or otherwise, and during his early years he saw these men interchangeably/simultaneously as his dad. Maybe Abandonment dad stuck around more permanently but she continued and on-again/off-again thing with Soccer dad so he was around sporadically even after AD left. Maybe they had a polyamory thing going on for a while that didn't work out. Because you know what's more tragic than Nelson's dad leaving? Nelson having two dads who are equally important to him BOTH leaving in different ways.
i would love to see a Top 10 or 20 best simpsons B plots/ opening set pieces. some of them are really fun, like the mayo clinic visit and homer selling sugar. a top 20 worst would be cool too, like that weird one when bart and lisa are obsessed w that balloon, it's maybe only 2 scenes
Vincent prices egg magic would be number 1 on both lists
Yes that would be awesome! Here's my top 10 B-plots:
- Pile of sugar
- Maggie gets adopted by grizzly bears (cutest thing ever)
- Maggie in the daycare centre
- Homer's "Improve your vocabulary" hypnosis tape
- Mr Sparkle
- Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag
- "Is my brother dumber than a hamster?"
- Lionel Hutz, babysitter (aka Miguel Sanchez)
- Grampa works in Krusty Burger
- Luanne stops Bart from seeing Milhouse (I like that it goes for emotional rather than wacky)
“…when are they going to get to the fireworks factory?!?”
@@alexneill8338 The pile of sugar wins for me, mostly for Homer's facial expressions during his rant. Especially at the end with "What's to be done with this Homer Simpson?"
I liked the B plot where Springfield Elementary was forced into wearing uniforms.
Wait, so Nelson's dad being missing because he went to the store is a later season thing? I thought it was always part of Nelson's backstory.
Right? I think i switched timelines at some point
I swear I remember this from an earlier season.
Mandela Effect
@@SnakeRoadComicsOfficial3677Nelson... Mandela... Coincidence?
“Imagine having a bad childhood and being stuck in it for 30 years”
*laughs in PTSD*
Seriously though, I love what the writers have done with Nelson over the years. He’s one of the most iconic secondary characters on the Simpsons and I do kinda hope he ends up with at least someone in his life he can turn to in more than just one episode, even if the rest of his life is pretty tough. There could be an interesting dynamic there and at the end of the day, you can’t help but want him to succeed in some way, or at least catch a break once in a while
I think what I'd like to see with Nelson most is something you touched on - not for him to get a new dad (although that would be nice), but his relationship with his mom to improve. It never really occurred to me until now how messed up it is that this working class woman who has very clearly been dealt a bad hand in life is constantly getting dunked on by the show, portrayed as a fuck up, and shamed for being a sex worker, especially since a lot of men in the show who could also be seen as 'screw ups', like Moe, are portrayed a lot more sympathetically and with a lot more nuance than she is.
I think it'd be great to get a spotlight episode that goes into her background and her struggles as a working class single mother, fleshing her out as a character, and ends with her vowing to be a more attentive mother to Nelson. After all, the kid has it hard enough with his dad constantly abandoning him, the least the writer's could do would be to give him a decent mom. It'd be a way to give Nelson a sort of 'happy ending' without majorly changing the status quo or taking away potential stories. Nelson would still have a lot of baggage for the writers to exploit; living in poverty, his daddy issues, etc. but at the very least we'd know that he has one stable adult figure in his life. Plus, it'd allow the writers to add another adult female character to the supporting cast, which would be a plus.
She is not dunked on for being a sex worker. She is dunked on for being a neglectful sex worker who treats her son like garbage.
I'm entirely in favour of this after how well they handled Sarah Wiggum when they finally got round to her being more than just Clancy's wife and Ralph's mum who didn't do anything
I also think what Nelson's mom needs is a spotlight episodes that shows her struggles and attempts to be a good mother. Though after decades of her being portrayed as neflectful and uncaring, people might not buy it.
@@stryke-jn3kv There was a Mrs. Wiggum ep?
@@morrisonnolan5687 There was, 'Uncut Femmes' in s32, one of the better ones that season if not quite as good as the genuinely great 'Podcast News'
i literally gasped when i saw this pop up, i'm obsessed with your channel, thank you for making niche simpsons content for weirdos like me :)))
There is no way that the writers didn't just completely forget about Sports Dad, when they started writing fatherless Nelson
Do a Simpsons History video on Bernice Hibbert. Dr. Hibbert's wife. Now that's a underrated character worth taking a look at.
Does she really have anything to go off of, though? I’m mainly familiar with seasons 2 through 8, so I can’t say.
Also, I like your PFP. BTAS rocks.
This is Bernice Hibbert
A mother of 3 (4?), she is an alcoholic, and likes to gossip.
Has she had any episodes that gave her some spotlight? I can’t remember her saying anything in any episodes and that’s a bit rude tbh. I can only remember sr hibbert talking even in episodes where she’s shown. But i can imagine she’s meant to be a lawyer just like the character she’s presumably based off - Claire Huxtable
@@toganium4175 I recall off-hand references to her being an alcoholic and a swinger
You could easily upgrade Nelson's life and have Jimbo, Dulp & Kerny as the replacement characters. There have been a number of times where it is implied those 3 aren't living much better than Nelson but they are much less sympathetic. Nelson basically became Bart's other best friend and is far from the early seasons' bully character. He deserves something of a long-term win.
I think Nelson's dad being present in the earlier seasons can be explained by not taking the episodes as they were released, but as different points in time, in the same ways some episodes show Barney being sober and others have him reverting to his alcoholic self. Since the Simpsons is episodic, barring a couple of major events, most notably the death of Maude, Milhouse's parents getting a divorce, Edna's relationship with Skinner and later Flanders, Sideshow Bob's episodes, and so on, there's nothing stopping us from thinking that all the episodes with jokes about his father missing for 15 years take place before Sleeping With The Enemy, at which point he reappears, and that's where the rest of his appearances slot in, and then he presumably disappeared again, which leads into episodes like Better Off Ned.
I always thought the joke about Nelson's dad abandoning him, was to make Nelson seem more sympathetic & give a reason why Nelson is a bully. What if they took a Puss In Boots: The Last wish direction in the future? Make Nelson more behaved with a father figure with Moe, but introduce a new bully who is just unhinged & has a very good family. Maybe that could have worked with Barney take away his alcoholism but give those jokes to another tavern regular or give Barney a new vice or trait you can actually make jokes out of.
We've seen two different versions of Nelson's Dad in the show. And they both have different features and trails.
One is a coach for Nelson football or baseball team.
And the other one is a the one who Nelson thought run away but instead was forced into a circus freak job after a peanut allergy accident.
For some reason the coach version might have been a stepdad or something. They are too different to each other to be the same character
I love that you missed out the word "dad" because he's always missing
Clearly Nelson's mom was in a relationship with Quintuplets and isn't sure which one knocked her up
I feel like Moe and Nelson could just get a few moments together without either character having to change. Nelson can care and be cared for by someone and Moe can show more of his fatherly side. Neither would have to fundamentally change if it's Moe as a mentor, we know Moe is pretty poor so it's not like it would really change Nelson's financial situation and Nelson wouldn't have to be nice to anyone else except Moe and his wife.
i think a simpsons mysteries about Moes age would be interesting, or just about his backstory in general
I thought it'd been well-established that he's in his 50s.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 sometimes he's shown in flashback as being the same as homer, lenny and carl, sometimes he's shown as a teen while the others are still kids and there is one instance where there's a picture of him running an ice cream shop being an adult and showing the rest as kids.
Good old Kid Presentable
And wether or not Moe's mother was a circus freak or an actual Yeti
@@matti.8465 I think the yeti was his mother and the circus freak was his father and that the Szyslaks from "King Leer" are his adoptive family. What do you think?
I used to think Moe was Nelson's dad. Their facial features are strikingly similar.
It should be noted that Nelson's grandfather is a judge whom has sent several to death row. It's not clear however whether the judge is his paternal or maternal grandfather.
16:54 Finally, thanks for someone remembering Ling! I don't know why they don't want to use her anymore, she could make more for Selma and her life!
Also, i like the idea of Nelson working in Moe's Tavern, with him having a sketchy but caring mentor. I hope they don't mess the whole Moe and Maya thing, is such an exciting change and i don't want them to chicken out like with Edna and Skinner.
he said smell you later, but he never smelled me agaaaaaaaain
I am a big fan of both Moe and Nelson so I’m a big fan of the story idea, but I think taking it a step further and giving them a found family would work great. Moe getting married and adopting a child is the perfect found family group to do episodes around. If we’ve had a hundred Simpson family stories, why not 20 Szyslak stories
Moe would be an absent father figure as well. Outside of kid's hockey, he really doesn't have a home or stability himself so he can't really give what he doesn't have either. He's at Moe's Tavern almost always for 30+ seasons outside of that recent episode, so therefore he could potentially 'be' Nelson's dad as an absent father figure who eventually won't be able to be there and therefore maintain the 'status quo' of Nelson's backstory. I guess his coaching a kid's hockey team without being a dad himself was motivated by rivalry with the King Toot guy. Moe and Nelson initially establish a working relationship where ultimately Nelson wants more from his 'primary' which I think Moe appreciates when he realizes it but Nelson hanging out at Moe's bar seems like a worse or at least less legal option than a trailer with his mom.
We have seen Moe to have a home away from the bar. In the episode "Moe Baby Blues," he lives in an apartment.
5:06 Nelson's dad really did go out for space cigarettes but he was run aground by an alien fleet and abducted for a human zoo.
Wow, as an aspiring writer this video speaks to me, especially the topic of when to absolve characters of their problems. I love the late father figures of Nelson, it's a very captivating experimentation. I think good writing often tries to change the status quo for characters to good or even poor effect, and even here, in this “glacial-paced” endless sitcom, we see the sparks of imagination of the writers. I love to see characters change-or like here, try to. Thank you RealJims, this is my favorite video of yours yet.
I think you hit on a possible future episode right at the end. An episode where Nelson and Moe are still pals and then Barney appears in the plot. Then we are teased with the possibility of Barney being Nelson's dead by playing into that untapped artistic and passionate side of Barney we got from the earlier years.
I would honestly love a centered episode on Nelson’s mom as you suggested. Give an episode on her perspective
*I’ll never forget when it was revealed that Nelson father was really Cartman’s mom the whole time!*
What if the abandonment dad and the sports dad are different guys, and the Muntzs are just not sure which is Nelson’s dad.
That'd make sense.
This is a very complex video. Truly a fantastic project! I definitely vote for Barney as Nelson’s true dad! They would be really fun together in my opinion. I also love how you squeezed in Nelson x Lisa. Still a fantastic ship. I definitely imagine Lisa cringing a little if either Moe or Barney has to walk her down at the isle though. That wedding would be wacky! Nelson is indeed a compelling character. I hope he does get his happy storyline one day!
I noticed once that Nelson looks like a pre-evolution of Barney
It might be nice to have more years of youth, in some ways
As a kid, I thought Nelson's dad was Snake Jailbird.
Snake is too young to be Nelson's dad.
I'm an avid watcher of seasons 1-10 and no further, so I mostly miss a lot of the later arcs. But even with what I have seen, I wanted to see Moe and Nelson hang out. I always felt they made so much sense together. I am glad that was taken advantage of, and honestly would like to see that happen more even if I haven't seen much of recent Simpsons.
I laughed at first when I saw the wall of Nelson's days but then I became sad when I saw that Bleeding Gums Murphy tried to be his dad/mentor. He didn't abandon him like the others, he died :( Also I would like to see a Simpson's mysteries episode about Kearny's age. How old is he suppose to be and he's still in grade school? lol
Kearney was at America’s Bicentennial
Kearney went to 4th grade with Otto
@@claymathewselevator8121 He also has a kid who sleeps in a drawer.
Great episode, this! You raise some good points about the bind the writers are in. Love that the old fan theory was brought up, even if at the last moment.
I love these character stories! I stopped watching Simpsons in 9th grade in 2002 and only catch the treehouse of horror each year it's great to see what characters are up to!
Also can't believe it took this long to pair nelson and moe. The perfect pairing I never thought of!
Moe and Nelson is so perfect.
I get why people brag about the recent seasons since that works
I feel like Moe adopting Nelson would make both of them more interesting. Moe and Nelson have similar traits and I feel like Nelson being raised by Moe wouldn't ruin him at all! Imagine a centered episode of the two being together and Bart prank calls Moe. Like usual everyone laughs while he gets depressed instead of angry then add Nelson he can do a taken reference where he hunts down Bart for Moe. I feel Moe would teach Nelson so much stuff and Nelson would help Moe be finally happy with a son and a wife.
For Years I was Convinced that Snake was Nelson’s dad. I only very recently was shocked that he wasn’t
Snake is too young to be Nelson's dad.
I used to think that also actually
@@danielshaffer-green5684that sent me down a rabbit hole lol. I couldn't find snakes Cannon age but I found a reference to an episode where snake was 13 and Wiggum was 16. Wiggum was Also 16 when homers mom abandoned him and Homer was 9. Meaning snake is actually 4 years older than Homer. I could be wrong, I just googled and followed that chain of info but yeah I'm fairly sure. Homer needs to take better care of himself, dude look's like shit compared to snake lol
@@justincase3230 That means that Snake should be around 40. Oh wow.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 yeah pretty crazy. According to meta ai snake has never hooked up with Nelsons mom but then it gave me a paragraph where it pretty much called her a ho without saying those exact words haha.
I think they should just keep cycling through Nelson father figures: the sea captain, superintendent Chalmers, duff man, Kirk Van Houten, Dr. Colossus, sideshow mel
The warden of juvie maybe? He already has a lot of experience dealing with troubled kids, and so he'd be able to understand Nelson.
We already know what a rich Nelson Muntz would be like, he's called Montana Max from Tiny Toon Adventures. He even has sleeves for his vest
Nelson's Dad voicing over that, and ending with that smooth, deep "Ha ha" is one of my fav Simpson's moments.
yo realjims i know this doesn't really have to do much with this video specifically but i just want to say your videos are always a treat to watch and i look forward to your uploads, thank you for doing what you do :)
Kind of surprised they never went the route of playing nelson as a protege of Snake, that would be an interesting episode
"Another kid in Fort McMurrary"
Oh geez! For those who don't know Fort McMurrary is the oilsands city in Alberta Canada, it has a reputation for being a "temporary" spot for a lot of people to live in while they make some quick money (temporary was in quotations for a reason)
I think Moe and Nelson make a fun duo, even if its only for 1 (or a few) episodes. I don't think either work well as characters without their edges but seeing the two be happy and bond is a nice change from laughing at their expense
I would be down for more Moe and Nelson adventures. Those two have the same personality that they can bounce off easily.
I think one episode of nelson and mr burns would be so good, both of them throwing rocks at school kids from a limo while they both yell HaHa.
They could even make it a big moment for nelsons character, have him start the episode wanting a father but after his time with burns falls appart he come out more confident in a "ha, i dont need him" moment. that allows them to keep the status quo while still paying off that storyline
Now I want an episode about Nelson's mum. Maybe just show her in the flashback episodes, to see how everything turn wrong.
We basically know what went wrong, her husband left her and she's poor so she drinks and sleeps her time away
I LOVE that Simpsons Mysteries is back
Unlike Nelson dad’s
So is his last name (Muntz / Munts?) taken from his mother's maiden name? If they haven't given away his father's last name, it'd be an interesting reveal if his last name is Gumble (Or, however Barney's last name is spelled). This would also be a fascinating twist considering the recent Moe pairing. Moe has been helping aid the alcohol addiction to Nelson's dad's brother all these years
I could see it as a story and creative perspective to venture down the route of Moe and Nelson. Found it fun and we could see them fulfill each other's lives.
I gotta say this channel is a real treasure.
I like the idea of Moe and Nelson becoming something closer to father and son. Especially if they confirmed Barney was his father. If Barney ever goes back to drinking it'd be a nice bit of dramatic irony that he's so close, but so far from his father.
I kind of like the idea of Nelson's real father being Barney, he already has two supposedly biological fathers, why not add a third?! I guess it would also add an interesting new element to Nelson's dynamic with Moe.
There's precedent, Barney is a frequent depositor at the Springfield Sperm Bank.
Come to think of it, that'll be brilliant lol
I was hoping for a new Simpsons Mysteries. I've recently been rewatching the old ones.
I really like seeing the character development across the series, Lisa becoming a vegetarian and a Buddhist, Edna and Skinner, Ned losing Maude, Comic Book Guy and Kumiko, Moe with Maya I honestly really hope we see more changes in the future. Nelson would be a great character to see catch a break, and Moe is easily the best candidate for a father figure in the future. If the show didn’t want anything too permanent then try others too like Krusty or maybe give him a new maternal figure like Agnes that would be entertaining. Nelson and Lisa is definitely a more interesting couple than Lisa and Milhouse anything that can help set that up is a bonus
I hadn’t really thought about it until you pointed it out but you’re right: Nelson is probably the best developed character in the show outside of The Simpsons themselves, and maybe Mr. Burns. I did realize myself, though, that Nelson is kind of special. He is invariably more than the sum of his parts. I cannot think of a character in the show that he has interacted with that has somehow not benefited both characters by the dynamic. So yeah, I would like him to have a happy ending, or if not that, and I would like him to have some sort of recognition from the other characters. Even if it’s some thing, like realizing how vastly much worse he really should be all things considered. Just the fact that he is tortured soul and still manages to be mostly functional would be enough. And mow would be a great vehicle for that.
I think they should bring back Gina from "The Wandering Juvie," she and Nelson would make a good couple.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 sure, why not? Good idea
@@mahatmarandy5977 My headcanon has always been that after Gina gets out of juvie, she'll be adopted by Moe, as she's similar to him just like Nelson is, and she has no family. And then after she and Nelson start dating, he would come to live with them because he can't stand living with his mother. Do you think that's a good idea?
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Yeah, it’s not bad. The dating part is a little problematic because he’s only like 12 I think, so I can see why they wouldn’t want to head down that road except maybe in a flash-forward episode, but it’s not bad at all. In my own headcanon, Nelson ends up working with/for Lisa in the future. Nothing romantic, but they’ve just got a long history and they trust each other. So she ends up taking him with her in whatever she ends up doing later in life, and he’s protective of her. Basically he’s the brother Bart *should* have been to her. :)
@@mahatmarandy5977 What makes you think Gina is older than Nelson? I always thought they were about the same age (2-3 years older than Bart).
Growing up I always assumed that Nelson's dad was the owner of the bowling alley. I mean, they look very much alike, and I thought the joke was that he had ran away from home but he didn't even skip town, he remained in Springfield but out of chance neither Nelson nor his mother had ran into him again.
Before 2023 ends, didn't expect to hear, "laying pipe" from you, haha!
Love your vids, haven't seen the show in years but you condense it perfectly, thanks Jim(s)!
This episode really highlighted something I hadn't consciously realised before, but has absolutely been true of the Simpsons even during the Golden Era- there isn't really a sympathetic lower-income character. Both Nelson's parents and Cletus are treated as moral failures as part of the joke, and are otherwise flat characters. You could maybe highlight Lenny- but, really, the (one time) joke with him is that he lives like he does despite having a Nuclear Power Plant's middle-income wage, and goes to great pains to hide it.
Nelson's kind of the closest we get. And even then his situation is treated more about being his Parent's moral failings, and not his own. After all, he's too young to actually earn money.
It's entirely possible- and likely- I've forgotten someone, but I am getting this uncomfortable sensation of lower class = bad and deserving of it from the show now. Considering how long it's been going on, I'm surprised an episode that turns Nelson's Mum into a more layered character hasn't happened yet. She deserves it at this point
Frank Grimes was poor, and he was a sympathetic character.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Besides his childhood abandonment and constant bad luck- he had earned a Master's Degree in physics, and, well, throughout the episode, a decently paying job.
@@Hurtdeer Actually Grimey had to work night shifts at a foundry, so he wasn't paid well.
@@peterprime2140 fair enough. Nuclear power plant wages must be whatever Burns feels like at a given time. Either that, or he's still paying off student debt for his degree.
Still- I think the point stands. Grimes is sympathetic because he represents the American ideal that poverty can be risen out of through hard work and grit. He subverts his situation with sheer determination, and isn't seen as a moral failure as a result. This in turn reflects badly on characters like Cletus and Nelson's Mum, because the show never suggests that their situation is ever anything further than their own depravity- drinking, child neglect, supposedly degrading job choices, etc etc
I just think there's a whole angle left unexplored here, which for a show that is trying to wring out as much as it can from its characters at this point (by even sending Nelson to Mars), I feel it's odd that this particular angle hasn't really felt explored under a deeper light.
I mean unless it has in some post-Golden Age episode I haven't seen, which, admittedly, isn't many of them
@@peterprime2140 And he lived in a tiny apartment sandwiched between 2 bowling alleys.
With The Simpsons writers, it's usually gags over plot or character development, but they've been really diving into the latter the past few years. I don't think Nelson having a stable home life takes away from the character being a bully. We didn't know his dad abandoned him for how many seasons, and he still worked as that character. I think it's a tired old trope that a bully's a bully because there's something wrong with their home lives because they're someone to pity. I've never met a bully IRL that didn't have a decent home life with either a clueless "pfft, not MY child" or a straight up enabler parent. Besides, you look at other sympathetic "bully" characters (i.e. Binky Barnes from Arthur or Gian from Doraemon), and they have actually loving parents. Personally, when it comes to Nelson, I'm annoyed that the writers can't make up their minds if he's Bart's friend or not. If we're talking derailed character development, what about all the way back in Bart the General where he signed a treaty to never bully again. I like the concept for Bart being the popular character, a devilish prankster and underachiever that is looked up to by the bullies and the dorks alike. I always thought that Bart belongs with Nelson and the bully trio a little more than Milhouse or sometimes Martin. I want to see the relationship where Bart invites Nelson over his house to put a train on a slot car track, have it melt, and wants to dump some crud on it.
Where I think Nelson and and Mr Burns could work is not as a son but as a grandson. Like He's Burn's heir, but Burns only wants so much to do with him. He'll occasionally give him a few dollars and advice being evil, maybe even comfort him if he's down. but he doesn't want the reasonability of razing a child. When Nelson tries to stay at Burns's house for more than a few minutes, he's on thin ice. But if Nelson does something very ambitious on his own, Burns will praise him.
Well now I have a whole pitch for a Moe and Nelson/Homer and Maya -> Homer and Lisa episode.
I really enjoyed the new episode and I am here for more Top Goon discussion!
I was surpiced to learn that Nelson's dad abandoned him so late in the series run. I somehow remembered his dad "leaving to get cigarettes" happening much earlier, like season 5 or 7
Is there ANY information on the green cap guy that we occasionally see at Moe's Tavern? I can't even remember if he's had any dialogue.
I didn't even know there was a s34 or that they brought back the lil woman, but that Nelson-Moe story seemed really wholesome. I wish the show ended already and let them be happy...
With inconsistency of Nelson's father designs, it even looks like he has two simultaneously existing canonic dads: one that continues to fly off, and "sport" one, each with his own distinctive design and personality. Maybe it's "Mamma Mia" situation, they're both *possible* biological fathers, Mrs Muntz just never made her mind, which one is truly))
As with best father figure, variant with Moe feels like having most potential, simply because series latched on to Moe's miserable loveless life (and his fruitless crush on Marge) for too long, changing it without losing interest in his character by pairing him with another disastrous person may be good direction, even not necessarily getting in the way of his seemingly happy prospective marriage with Maya. Their collective dynamics can provide needed beta (dysfunctional) family narrative to main one, something series apparently kept to attempt in past with Edna-Skinner and then Edna-Flanders storylines.
I always thought since we never saw his father and they look similar… that Nelson’s dad was Snake. It made sense to me when I was younger. I still wonder if he or Herman weren’t meant to be possibly his father earlier on.
That used to be my assumption, too.
Snake is way too young to be Nelson's father.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 I don’t think Homer and Marge necessarily look their supposed ages. Besides, what’s to say Snake couldn’t have started young?
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting I guess it could work in theory. I'm pretty sure Nelson is supposed to be like 12, while Snake's age is never confirmed, but he appears to be in his late 20s. That would mean that he had Nelson when he was highschool-aged, which definitely isn't out of the question, especially considering the kind of person that he is.
The easy solution to the should Nelson get a good parental figure or new living situation thing: Get Nelson’s mom to go through a redemption arc.
Hear me out.
It’s no father figure, sure. But Mrs Muntz getting her shit together (vices/parenting wise) could give Nelson at least some stability and balance in his life. I know it would be hard to make a chracter like Nelson’s mom sympathetic due to the callousness she’s shown towards her son. But maybe something could happen to her to change her perspective.
like a near death experience or general mid life crisis where she realises how much she’s screwed up her life, which makes her realise the only meaningful thing she has left is her son and tries to make amends with him in her own fumbling, rough around the edges way, we could get some compelling drama out of her trying (and 2 out of 3 times failing) to turn things around with her own issues and with Nelson, but Nelson (completely justifiably) being apprehensive about or rejecting these attempts. You’d know mrs muntz wants to earnestly change and turn things around, but you also understand why Nelson would still reject her despite how much she wants to try for him, due to her mistreatment of him in the past.
If she does get her act together and/or Nelson does come around, you’d still have his other struggles like Nelson and his moms bad economic and living conditions, and the whole daddy issues stuff that would make him rough around the edges bully, but have some one whose there him and supporting him with his mom. A sort of having cake and eating it too type of thing. Maybe even give it a comedic twist with Nelson’s mom supportive of Nelson and cheating him on as he beats the crap out of some squares. Their life is crap and they’re both jerks, but they’d be on the same page about it for once.
I totally get why this might not work, but it could be an interesting direction to take the muntz family.
Seeing all the changes of Flanders you mentioned I have to wonder what are the biggest missed opportunities in the Simpsons.
Still think the whole ned/Edna could have been amazing but sadly we'll never know. Rip.
Thanks for posting the names of artist for the background music! I've searched for the name of the background song to the Simpsons Mysteries for a while now, and finnaly found it thanks to this video :) Thanks a million!
I think it’d be neat to have Nelson work part time at Moe’s. You don’t necessarily have to have a full episode about it, but I think you could get some decent mileage by having Nelson pop up in the bar from time to time.
at least nelson got to see King Pele
Had anyone else asked about a Roger Meyers Jr History? I'm not sure how much there is to go off but he has become one of my favorite side characters
I always thought it made more sense to have Snake as Nelson's Dad
I think it would've been interesting if they'd made Moe Nelson's Uncle in the mid seasons
Moe is definitely a mixed bag that would've worked in the long run being close but not always there for Nelson
It always bothered me how lazy they were with Nelson's dad's character design/continuity. I like to imagine that his mom just dated multiple look-alike guys that Nelson confused for his real father. Not sure which one is his bio' dad. Probably Barmbley Grumble!
This is the strangest thing. Just yesterday I had a random thought about asking you to make a video about Nelsons many dads.
And here we are!
Who else low-key almost cried thinking about how many real life Nelson's there are in this world
After watching top goon, I totally agree that Moe and Nelson was definitely the best pairing
There's "flexibly reality" and than there's whatever the Hell Mr. Muntz is!
Another great episode. Can we have a character spotlight on Apu's brother Sanji?
It's super fanfiiccy, but this kinda made me hanker for a Moe-Selma-Nelson-Ling combination. Hell, they could function as a whole family foil to the Simpsons, what with the antagonism between Selma & Homer and Nelson & Bart and even Moe & Midge. Keep going in the same direction with Ling as an overachiever to put her up against Lisa & Maggie and you have something that could be really interesting
he’s the resident deadbeat dad, his whole gag is running off but returning when he’s seeing something in his son that he can use
Just recently watched top goon and I do like the Nelson and Moe's chemistry (could even lead to a gag where Moe thinks Barney could be Nelson's Dad). There was also something I have been something I 've been noticing lately. We are seeing Krusty's daughter Sophie more and more, when are we going to have an episode where Sophie and Bart date for a one off episode (or could she be his perfect match?)
How your channel has only 128k subs is unfathomable. Criminal. Keep on trucking Jim
Something that I think might work for Nelson is if Moe does join the family but Nelson doesn’t get to see him all the time since he works at the tavern so much but when they do meet, they have a lot of fun. But then you can introduce a new aspect of Nelson to explore. Now he finally has something stable that won’t leave but it’s not his dad and there’s not really any replacing your own dad. So while he appreciates Moe and wants him to stay, in the end it didn’t fill the hole in him like he has been hoping all this time
If you think about it; Nelson's dad COULD still be a mystery. Given his mom's reputation; she could have easily been sleeping around and doesn't know for sure which guy actually got her pregnant, so she's just been tracking down old ONSs, telling them and Nelson they're his dad, and then them finding out the truth and bailing.