Another issue with the sacking of Sutliff is that many small retailers who mix their own blends source the components from Sutliff. This could change many other blends as well.
Like I commented in another one of your videos, we need to make sure Cornell and Diehl stays and support them with the majority of our tobacco purchases
I’m both a GL pease and C&D fan. I do enjoy Peter S blends so hopefully those stay. Only blends I’m sad about are the Sutliff Match blends hopefully another blender can pick up those recipes
Thank you for your effort and integrity in reporting the news. Yes, pipe smoking is a hobby, but exclusively referring to it as a hobby downplays the significance of what's happening here. Tobacco blending, pipe crafting, and pipe smoking are also human culture. Imagine the world suddenly being deprived of, say, 60% of Bordeaux wines. "We need to simplify and limit the market!" Or suppose the hundreds of coffee varietals in existence were limited to a dozen or so, in the name of 'efficiency'; or say a conglomerate were to shut down availability of a number of artist's pigments, or some sub-genres of music. Some of us react to the news with annoyance that we're losing access to things we like; but on a deeper level this is also another little blow to culture, another human enrichment that future generations may never know. It's the dumbing down of society because those who gained control of a market don't take responsibility for the way it uplifts us beyond mere consumption and cost. Like you, Bradley, I'm a fan of capitalism and a fair profit, but not homogenization and enshittification.
There are HUGE FDA regulations to overcome. Perhaps those can be scrapped by the new administration? Unless that happens, I can’t see C&D introducing new lines unless they can acquire the recipes on product sold prior to the regulations. Given STG’s desire to destroy everything and not sell recipes and brands… it’s not likely to happen. This is part of the Globel order of things going forward.
This is some sad news indeed. Thank You for gathering and sharing this information Bradley! At least now we have a better picture of what's going on and can act accordingly.
Thank you for the info and insight. We need someone here in the US to pick up these brands and produce them here in the States. I wish I had the money to do this. As an American I'm tired of the amount of outsourcing of production that goes on these days. We need to produce more here in the US, and not just tobacco. I really hope Escudo survives the STG chopping block.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube We do have a "Nanny State" unfortunately. Adults being scolded for using legal products or being kept from them through constantly stricter regulation.
Frightening - I shall be supporting Gawith Hogarth and Germains in the UK 🇬🇧 already buying their best brown flake and full Virginia - sad to hear the ex Dunhill blends could be at risk - some serious favourites of mine 😢 brilliant research and thanks for sharing 😊
Bradley, thanks for the great information. As a retailer I am as much in the dark as my customers as sourcing valuable information is very difficult so congrats on going the extra mile. On the monopoly issue, keep in mind that monopolies are always subject to market entry by smaller competitors who often will introduce alternatives to discontinued products which often are very close to the discontinued. item. You may recall several years ago when the Dunhill label was disappearing from the market and before Peterson bought the recipes a European investor group introduced matches for the Dunhill blends under the "Charatan" trademark and as I recall the resulting clones of the blends, such as Elizabethan and 965 were quite close. Companies can legally protect their trademarks but as far as duplicating the blend, tobacco blends are not protectable under intellectual property law. so anyone who can reverse engineer a blend and end up duplicating Elizabethan of any other blend can do so with no legal consequences. Therefore, if a bunch of the Peterson blends disappear from STG's portfolio smaller players almost always enter the market and cannot be prevented from duplicating a blend.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube I agree, Elizabethan is a tough one to duplicate, a very "gentle and nuanced" flavor profile, it was probably much easier to replicate 965 for example as the latakia is a major player. Personally my 'go to' is Capstan Navy Cut (Macbaren product) and I find the current version quite close to the original from decades ago (for better or worse, I remember Capstan in the 1970's so I am stocking up for my personal cellar hoping STG either does no drop it from the line or change the flavor profile for the worse.)
@@leftyme4568 Good point, duplicating a blend or coming very close to duplication only works in the short term. Some pipe smokers want to try every new blend that comes down the road but eventually most of us settle in to a few favorites so at the end of the day a lot of blends that are "clones" of others stay in the line but become money losers. I suspect that is what happened at Sutliff.
They're greedy, apparently. No heart for the art, just for the money. Yes, a company has to be profitable. But they show a lack of passion for their customers other than their wallets.
Since I live in the Netherlands, I did not understand everything, but unfortunately I can tell you that Peterson tobaccos has not been for sale in the Netherlands for the last 4/5 years. I ordered the last tins in Germany, where nothing new is being restocked. It is even worse because in the past few years, a new law has made it no longer possible to buy pipe tobacco in the Netherlands at all. It doesn't get any better...my friend...
Thanks so much for digging and reporting out this info, sad as it is. There seem to be some that are either blinded by something or just reluctant to understand what this really means. I’d rather have the info/knowledge before it is too late. Thanks for keeping us informed. And your analysis appears to be spot on.
As a Virginian and anerican its sad to see sutliff closing. Can't believe they're scrapping the equipment. I need to get more mixture 79. I think I'd heard their Richmond plant was purpose built to make 79. I will then be going to Cornell and diehl and other american companies 🇺🇸
My anger came when you said "scrapped", having to do with Sutliff machinery. That is history going down the drain. I worked for a paper company, they did something similar. I am disappointed with STG direction but that is business today. Make less charge more and increase profit. Well, they lose in the long run, but they will make money for the suits till they can't and sell off the scraps at the end. Just how it goes. I bought many blends from a Milan Tobacconist and they sent me my order in a Sutliff box. I am guessing they bought from Sutliff and blended. So my thinking was off thinking of going to my local state tobacconist. They too, will need to find tobacco now from someone different.
Make no mistake tobacco blenders will find dunhill blend equals. I find it hard to believe dunhill blends going away. Just the idea of them is iconic. Massive uproar from the pipe community! We will respond !
It sucks most of all because of what Sutliff did for the community. The events you guys had with them and the boutique blends they constantly produced were just a small sample of what they had to offer to the American market. RIP 😢
Dude, we all need to gear up to growing, processing & pressing our own flake. That's what I intend to do next year. Not as hard as you might think and will save £££'s. Shame this industry is contracting, but it's the way the cookie is crumbling! Ironic that more people have chronic health problems now due to a piss poor diet and the controversial fact that pipe smokers live longer than most average Joe's! Thanks for the update.
@@WillsWill I ordered some Oriental seeds and plan to grow my own. I live in South Carolina so growing tobacco won't be a problem. Plan to order some cured leaves of other varieties since they have to be cured differently. I'm a gardener and DIY'er so it will be fun.
Hard to hear. I’ve only been into pipe smoking for 3 years, but one of the things I quickly learned was to start stocking up on your favorites, so I luckily have a sizable cellar for a new piper. I will definitely be giving my full support to C&D manufactured blends from now on… right after I stock up on my favorite old Dunhill blends before never buying from STG again.
Well... crud. It is a darn shame about Sutliff, since they were the longest running US based pipe T company by far. Hearing that Mac Baren's catalog will be reduced by 50% is pretty awful too, not to mention the possibility of losing all the ex-Dunhill blends and half of other pipe blends STG produces. Personally I'll be doubling down on my support for Cornell & Diehl and Gawith Hoggarth and buying most of my blends from them for the foreseeable future.
With Laudisi's purchase of Kapp & Peterson several years ago, and the old Dunhill "T's" already having been rebranded to Peterson, it sure would make sense for a deal to be stuck for Laudisi to acquire the former Dunhill "T's" from STG.
Bradley, as usual, I appreciate your approach. Thank you for sharing the information you have received. Kudos for trying to vet the facts before the video, but knowing when to share. You did your due diligence.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube I really enjoyed your thorough and measured breakdown of this devoid of any hyperbole. With likely further big changes in the industry on the horizon it could be worth you making a semi regular news video. I'm sure you could come up with a good title for it.
Sounds like : “ if you don’t purchase our f*****g blends, I’ll cut the production of all your favorites blends ahah (so that you’ll buy our stuff even less)” I’m sure there is a great mind working behind all this.
The dissolution of Sutliff will absolutely destroy most brick and mortar stores, due to the blending components they sell, which I'm sure was the plan for STG. I bet they'd love to force all local shops out of business to guide everyone to their dogshit online store. I hate STG.
Just started my pipe journey in October 2023. I absolutely love several Dunhill/Peterson blends. Gonna grab 50 tins online tonight. 10 EM, 10 Standard, 10 mm 965, and 20 Nightcap
Thanks for your investigation and insightful opinions Bradley - much appreciated. STG's takeover is extremely disappointing, not just for the loss of beloved brands and products, but also because it provides another baneful example of the near inevitability of brand rationalisation, (more accurately: brand destruction) once the myopic, number-crunching MBA's get involved. Also, 'generational change' involving putting a moron family member in change of anything too often spells doom! Oh, cheers from the authoritarian 'nanny state' formerly known as Australia, where a 50g tin of my beloved Petersen Sweet Killarney costs A$165.00, and with C&D blends costing A$175.00😎
Aww, man, that was one of the ones I wanted to pick up. Ordered over 20 blends from P&C over Black Friday week, really filled out my repertoir of tins and bags, but I didn't pick up any Peterson's or other of their brands.
Thank you. Bradley, for another good video and especially for your efforts to get the real truth. All in all. The results sre very SAD for those of us in the hobby. Going forward. As others have pointed out, we do need to support C&D and other houses. The closing of these two houses in particular is bad. Because of the Dunhill offerings being scrapped, Sutliff makes some pretty good Dunhill matches and bulk offerings. I wonder if C&D would be in a position to buy at least the rights to the Dunhill recipes or the Sutliff match recipes? Happy puffing !!! Jeff
@@robaustin9220 It sounds like STG has already made that a thing. Can't boycott what already is dead. But if you look at the back of a lot of tins, they are made by STG. Which if you boycott them, you will be very limited. And if C&D sell, we will be in big trouble. Most of my cigars are sold by STG out of Pennsylvania. So they have cornered the market.
Won't be hard to support independents at this point in time such as C & D. There are some fantastic offerings. Thanks for this report, as hard as it was to hear.
Thank you very much for all your leg work and organization of the information. It is very sad to see 100+ year old companies just thrown away. Big money and corporate greed is the reason, STG doesn't give a damn about there customers, so sad to say. We will have to see what left of all our favorite blends. And if they will even be blended the same anymore. I simple will NOT buy anything from STG EVER. How very sad. Thanks so much again. Take care and God Bless
@@stuffandthingsyoutube We survived McClellan disappearing, and the disappearance of Dunhill, we will survive this if people can just maintain their composure- but they won't. It will be unfortunate.
Lots of my subs sending me to this video. After listening I’m left deflated and very concerned for the future of our hobby. Based on STG’s financial report it seems clear that they have zero interest in pipe smoking and 100% interest in growing their cigar side of the business. What I’m struggling to understand is why they bothered acquiring MB and Sutliff. Unless they’re so ruthless in their strategy that they want to covert pipe smokers to cigars. Thanks for this comprehensive video.
Not happy about about Cup O' Joe's though. My go to sit to order from. But my secondary is The Country Squire, an amazing American tobacconist who I do not mind supporting. I love their house blends!
Bradley, thanks for the video. This is sad. I’m really glad that a few years back, I stocked up on my favorite blends. Realistically, I probably have enough of my favorite blends to last me till I die. Still really sad.
STG ruins everything they touch. I have no idea how corporations like STG think they improve anything in the industry they're in. Lesson of the day is small business owners should never sell out to a corporate overlord like STG.
It's the same thing that happened to the American steel industry. The companies got taken over by people who didn't want to be in the steel industry, they wanted to be bankers. The only assets they had were the steel mills, which were scrapped for their play money.
That’s the thing that bothers me. Why would these long lasting family owned companies sell to a company like SGT? They know it will just cripple and monopolise the industry. SGT don’t hide who they are so I’m not mad at them, I’m frustrated with the people that decide to sell to them.
@@jackdavies8317 I think family owned companies who sell out are often run by second and third generation owners (e.g. kids, grand kids, other family members) who have little to no emotional attachment to the original founding principles, passions, etc. of their predecessors. It sucks for those who suffer (customers, employees) but I understand new business stewards having no connection to these things, especially in the tobacco industry, which is seen as an unhealthy, dying industry.
The HH line and Peterson blends should be the focus on continuity. SPC has a couple good ones, but the HH and Peterson’s could be replicated by Mr Reeves.
I'm Farley new to Pipe smoking. Is this anything i should be worried about. Upon research i see far more company's out there who make Pipe Tabacco. So i'm guessing those brands that are going away are alot of smokers favorite brands.
Awful news, but great reporting and info, thank you…totally agree with your call to start exploring and supporting C&D, we need to keep them in business!
I did not realize they also owned the US online stores. Just a few weeks ago they announced that they stopped all international shipping, so I can no longer get my favorite blends that are not available here in Japan (Cobblestone).
Thank you for the update. Wish it were better news, but this is what we get when beancounters run the show. If I was to try to find a positive here, it would be that STG is likely doing what it can to keep the tobacco industry viable with the continued onslaught of regulatory pressures. Will it work? Hard to say. But this is yet another demonstration of why corporations suck at handling artisan industries. They will never prioritize providing products that consumers are passionate about if that can't be represented sufficiently in numbers.
Maybe the Peterson blends will go to laudise since they own smoking pipes C&D and recently bought Peterson pipes and whatever other brands are associated with all that mess. It really seems like there is only two companies out there now anyway both of those two and once the checkbooks come out it’s a matter of time until one of those two own basically the industry.
Yes, I was wondering if this is the real reason STG wants to phase out the Peterson line--they may not be making full profit on it because they don't own the brand name.
This stinks. This whole profits over everything gets old, keep your dirty hands off my Tobacco! I'll make it a goal of mine to avoid purchasing any products owned or sold by STG to further mitigate their acquisitions of destruction! Beyond that, thank you. I appreciate you covering this!
Man, I'm glad that STG has my best interests in mind by simplifying offerings to the customer! It sure gave me a big headache deciding what blends I wanted to purchase... now I won't have to worry about that anymore! No more analysis paralysis for this guy. I'm especially excited for Project 2028, when I'll only have to make one choice when ordering: tobacco! It's just tobacco! No frills, no fluff! 👍
Hello Bradley 🌱 I truly Hope they're can be a future correspondence arrangement with Sutliff representatives. Agreed, it is frustrating with regards towards share holders take the place of the consumers voice. Corporate greed sucks! ..................................................................... Omaha, Nebraska🌽
I just recently got back into the hobby, and Sutliff has always been my go to, I’m grateful for the opportunity to stock up my cellar before everything goes tits up. But man am I really sad with the direction this takes the industry. I genuinely wish there was something to be done legally about the monopoly here.
The scrapping of the equipment is brutal. C&D won’t be able to make ropes/coins…. The only ropes made in the world will be Gawith. But no coins. The equipment for making toasted burley. Gone. The presses. Gone. The cutters. Gone. Laudisi can hopefully pick up some of what’s left behind… blending Seattle Pipe Club items, and that sort of thing. If they’re smart, and have the capital, they should hire Per George Jensen and have him start new blend lines, perhaps having him team up with Pease and also creating new blends. Maybe match blends of eradicated MB blends, etc. The closing of Sutliff is the worst part because of their components lines. B&Ms and other boutique blenders will be SOL because of this. 🤦♂️ This is the worst thing to happen to the world wide tobacco market in history. I hope Laudisi can profit from this move by STG.
@@mscar8024no. C&D uses toasted burley by Sutliff in some of their blends. What I’m saying is components like this will become extinct because the Sutliff equipment is being scrapped and not sold. From what MB has said in the past, the machines used to create ropes and then coins were very old and no longer made. These machines are also going to be scrapped and not sold. So, no one can buy them and start making coins for themselves. The only other tobacco company I know of making ropes is Gawith, who has rope machines. Basically STG is about to create a void in the market by scrapping this equipment. Over a hundred years of tradition and blends will be gone, because of their choices.
Does anyone have any more information regarding the coin making ability of tobacco manufacturers? Does this mean flake medallion and escudo will be gone?
@@stacenmfrom what I’ve heard, Mac Baren has this equipment. They make things like Escudo. But I guess it will all depend upon what STG decides they want to continue making. Right now, it’s up in the air. From what Per George said a few years ago, MB has the only rope and coin machines and they are very old machines. Gawith has rope machines as well, which are also very old.
Man, I just started this hobby earlier in the year, and now blends are going to be disappearing before I even try them. So sad…. Greed ruins everything. I hope STG reads these comments because Escudo & OGS are some of my favorite blends, but now I'm going to be looking for favorites elsewhere. Word of advice STG - don't underestimate Americans when it comes to loyalty and their freedom of choice. Unlike most countries, we can afford to make different choices.
There is an obvious downside to this but perhaps things will shake out with some positives as well. There is certainly a finite amount if quality tobacco produced worldwide. If STG places less emphasis on pipe tobacco perhaps other producers such as Gawith, Kopp , C&D etc may be able to procure more of the quality leaf resulting in more of their quality blends which are currently difficult to obtain. Additionally we may see them attempt to reproduce any of our favorites that may be discontinued. Time will tell. All we can do is wait this out and know this IS an opportunity for the other producers to move into the vacuum that is coming. Perhaps even some new blends will arise. This is the way of things.
Sounds like we will just have an STG/Sutliff/McB greatest hits starting in 2025. I’m glad we still have C&D/GLP, HU, and Gawith, but fans of the other stuff will want to stock up.
I find it very difficult to believe that the Peterson, formally Dunhill, blends are having troubles with sales globally. I would suggest that the, now Peterson blends, are the highest selling blends because of international popularity. This is definitely a PR nightmare for STG. I don’t see STG recovering from an announcement like this, however possibly the best move for the consumer is to continue purchasing your favorite blends in hopes of saving the blends from being discontinued. If not you would have a stocked cellar.
You have to understand. It’s not about total revenue. It’s total return on investment including supply chains and manufacturing complexity. It may sell better but another blend has a higher margin. If they make more of X blend, market it, and push retail for it would it reduce complexity and increase profit over 1,3, or 5 years? That’s the type of questions they are asking. Many popular and successful products you have likely bought have been discontinued over the years. Have you ever thought why? It’s because their metric for what they make isn’t just sales. Unfortunately, Leatherman fans have learned this over the last 5-10 years.
As a beer geek for the last couple decades, this all seems pretty familiar - STG is clearly the A-B/In-Bev of the pipe tobacco "industry" and it's bad for consumers and bad for the industry. I'm still fairly novice about the various pipe tobacco companies - so I'm curious - how does this impact individual tobacconists and house blends (such as Country Squire, etc.) And what are our "craft" alternatives in the US for pipe tobacco if we don't want to give STG our business moving forward?
I was expecting bad news but not this bad! Say less. I've just ordered a lb of bold Kentucky and 10 tins of irish flake. Plum Pudding special reserve is next. I'm buying them every months until they close. Once they close, I'm in full agreement with you, Bradley. We have to give more support to C&D, as well as any other people who produce pipe blends here in the US. I disagree with you on the boycott thing, though. Once i get my cellar shored up, I'm basically never gonna buy anything STG again. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone else did.
The generational passion and knowledge vacuum continues. The offspring of pioneers in many industiees have not "caught" the vision or developed the passion; they have instead learned to spend the money it created and love nothing else. Sadly, in many industries that have "enemies" in the political correct world, when they can't shame people out of a popular hobby or way of life, they buy up the main suppliers and shut the doors. An alternate business model and interest driven companies is the way forward, hopefully a lesson will be taught to those craving only money, that where there is a will and passion, the people will prevail. Nicely done Bradley.
Another issue with the sacking of Sutliff is that many small retailers who mix their own blends source the components from Sutliff. This could change many other blends as well.
Like I commented in another one of your videos, we need to make sure Cornell and Diehl stays and support them with the majority of our tobacco purchases
I’m with you on that.
Thank goodness I’m a huge G.L Pease fan
I’m both a GL pease and C&D fan. I do enjoy Peter S blends so hopefully those stay. Only blends I’m sad about are the Sutliff Match blends hopefully another blender can pick up those recipes
Agreed!
Agreed. Honestly I like C&D and am in the process of trying all of the blends.
Thank you for your effort and integrity in reporting the news.
Yes, pipe smoking is a hobby, but exclusively referring to it as a hobby downplays the significance of what's happening here. Tobacco blending, pipe crafting, and pipe smoking are also human culture.
Imagine the world suddenly being deprived of, say, 60% of Bordeaux wines. "We need to simplify and limit the market!"
Or suppose the hundreds of coffee varietals in existence were limited to a dozen or so, in the name of 'efficiency'; or say a conglomerate were to shut down availability of a number of artist's pigments, or some sub-genres of music.
Some of us react to the news with annoyance that we're losing access to things we like; but on a deeper level this is also another little blow to culture, another human enrichment that future generations may never know. It's the dumbing down of society because those who gained control of a market don't take responsibility for the way it uplifts us beyond mere consumption and cost.
Like you, Bradley, I'm a fan of capitalism and a fair profit, but not homogenization and enshittification.
Very good points.
Absolutely right!
I think if the CEO of Laudisi is discussing continuing the Seattle Pipe Club blends that means they would be made by Cornell and Diehl.
8.0 quake in the pipe community
Do you have any articles or any info regarding this? That'd be pretty sweet, but was curious if there was more than heresay.
There are HUGE FDA regulations to overcome. Perhaps those can be scrapped by the new administration? Unless that happens, I can’t see C&D introducing new lines unless they can acquire the recipes on product sold prior to the regulations. Given STG’s desire to destroy everything and not sell recipes and brands… it’s not likely to happen. This is part of the Globel order of things going forward.
This is difficult news to hear, but greatly appreciate your hard work getting us a report Bradley!
I wish the news had been better!
Screw STG, at this point.
We need to support C&D and GL Pease, Robert Mcconell, Rattrays, Boswells, etc
It is my understanding Boswell uses other tobaccoes in their mixes so this could affect them too...
Don't forget Gawith!!
@@ObscurumMetallicus and Dan Tobacco
Thanks for your diligent efforts Bradly👍✅
This is some sad news indeed. Thank You for gathering and sharing this information Bradley! At least now we have a better picture of what's going on and can act accordingly.
Thank you for the info and insight.
We need someone here in the US to pick up these brands and produce them here in the States. I wish I had the money to do this. As an American I'm tired of the amount of outsourcing of production that goes on these days. We need to produce more here in the US, and not just tobacco.
I really hope Escudo survives the STG chopping block.
I wish the regulations here weren't so onerous.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube We do have a "Nanny State" unfortunately. Adults being scolded for using legal products or being kept from them through constantly stricter regulation.
Frightening - I shall be supporting Gawith Hogarth and Germains in the UK 🇬🇧 already buying their best brown flake and full Virginia - sad to hear the ex Dunhill blends could be at risk - some serious favourites of mine 😢 brilliant research and thanks for sharing 😊
I wish those blends were more available here!
Peterson are pretty much my go-tos, and I know their really popular..they can't be performing that poorly. Hate this place.
So I need to buy 400 cans of Elizabethan and Royal Yacht. Roger. There goes my retirement.
I would do same, but nah, kiss my a$$ I never want to taste it again.
Bradley, thanks for the great information. As a retailer I am as much in the dark as my customers as sourcing valuable information is very difficult so congrats on going the extra mile. On the monopoly issue, keep in mind that monopolies are always subject to market entry by smaller competitors who often will introduce alternatives to discontinued products which often are very close to the discontinued. item. You may recall several years ago when the Dunhill label was disappearing from the market and before Peterson bought the recipes a European investor group introduced matches for the Dunhill blends under the "Charatan" trademark and as I recall the resulting clones of the blends, such as Elizabethan and 965 were quite close. Companies can legally protect their trademarks but as far as duplicating the blend, tobacco blends are not protectable under intellectual property law. so anyone who can reverse engineer a blend and end up duplicating Elizabethan of any other blend can do so with no legal consequences. Therefore, if a bunch of the Peterson blends disappear from STG's portfolio smaller players almost always enter the market and cannot be prevented from duplicating a blend.
Thanks for sharing! Good points, though in the case of the Elizabethan "match" blends, I didn't find any of them very close unfortunately.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube I agree, Elizabethan is a tough one to duplicate, a very "gentle and nuanced" flavor profile, it was probably much easier to replicate 965 for example as the latakia is a major player. Personally my 'go to' is Capstan Navy Cut (Macbaren product) and I find the current version quite close to the original from decades ago (for better or worse, I remember Capstan in the 1970's so I am stocking up for my personal cellar hoping STG either does no drop it from the line or change the flavor profile for the worse.)
When did duplicating a blend ever work?
@@leftyme4568 Good point, duplicating a blend or coming very close to duplication only works in the short term. Some pipe smokers want to try every new blend that comes down the road but eventually most of us settle in to a few favorites so at the end of the day a lot of blends that are "clones" of others stay in the line but become money losers. I suspect that is what happened at Sutliff.
Nooo, not Peterson blends, I thought for sure they'd be safe. Apparently, nothing is safe with STG's gameplan for 2028.
That was pretty shocking for me to hear as well!
They're greedy, apparently. No heart for the art, just for the money.
Yes, a company has to be profitable. But they show a lack of passion for their customers other than their wallets.
Since I live in the Netherlands, I did not understand everything, but unfortunately I can tell you that Peterson tobaccos has not been for sale in the Netherlands for the last 4/5 years. I ordered the last tins in Germany, where nothing new is being restocked. It is even worse because in the past few years, a new law has made it no longer possible to buy pipe tobacco in the Netherlands at all. It doesn't get any better...my friend...
STG is a business....you don`t produce something that doesn`t sell enough to make a profit.....pretty simple.
@@leftyme4568looks like someone watched the Pipe Cottage video and adopted ole boys take 😂
Imo, the worst part is them scrapping the production equipment so as to estop competitors. That is mind-bendingly shrewd. 😖
corporate executives in shrinking markets are built different :-/
Thanks for sharing and thank to your brave source who clearly is minded towards the art of the product and the customer. Sad days.
Dude you went full James Bond on this! Thank you
Thank you so much, Bradley. You are “top shelf” in everything you do!!
Thanks so much for digging and reporting out this info, sad as it is. There seem to be some that are either blinded by something or just reluctant to understand what this really means. I’d rather have the info/knowledge before it is too late. Thanks for keeping us informed. And your analysis appears to be spot on.
As a Virginian and anerican its sad to see sutliff closing. Can't believe they're scrapping the equipment. I need to get more mixture 79. I think I'd heard their Richmond plant was purpose built to make 79. I will then be going to Cornell and diehl and other american companies 🇺🇸
My anger came when you said "scrapped", having to do with Sutliff machinery. That is history going down the drain. I worked for a paper company, they did something similar. I am disappointed with STG direction but that is business today. Make less charge more and increase profit. Well, they lose in the long run, but they will make money for the suits till they can't and sell off the scraps at the end. Just how it goes. I bought many blends from a Milan Tobacconist and they sent me my order in a Sutliff box. I am guessing they bought from Sutliff and blended. So my thinking was off thinking of going to my local state tobacconist. They too, will need to find tobacco now from someone different.
Exactly. Just bad news all around.
Wow, what a channel! Congratulations.
Make no mistake tobacco blenders will find dunhill blend equals. I find it hard to believe dunhill blends going away. Just the idea of them is iconic. Massive uproar from the pipe community! We will respond !
Bad time to be a pipe smoker. Thanks for the detailed deep dive. All accurate and will unfortunately come to fruition
It sucks most of all because of what Sutliff did for the community. The events you guys had with them and the boutique blends they constantly produced were just a small sample of what they had to offer to the American market. RIP 😢
We’ve let woke globalists destroy it. We didn’t have a counter response to speak of.
Dude, we all need to gear up to growing, processing & pressing our own flake. That's what I intend to do next year. Not as hard as you might think and will save £££'s. Shame this industry is contracting, but it's the way the cookie is crumbling! Ironic that more people have chronic health problems now due to a piss poor diet and the controversial fact that pipe smokers live longer than most average Joe's! Thanks for the update.
@@WillsWill I ordered some Oriental seeds and plan to grow my own. I live in South Carolina so growing tobacco won't be a problem. Plan to order some cured leaves of other varieties since they have to be cured differently. I'm a gardener and DIY'er so it will be fun.
Hard to hear. I’ve only been into pipe smoking for 3 years, but one of the things I quickly learned was to start stocking up on your favorites, so I luckily have a sizable cellar for a new piper. I will definitely be giving my full support to C&D manufactured blends from now on… right after I stock up on my favorite old Dunhill blends before never buying from STG again.
Well... crud. It is a darn shame about Sutliff, since they were the longest running US based pipe T company by far. Hearing that Mac Baren's catalog will be reduced by 50% is pretty awful too, not to mention the possibility of losing all the ex-Dunhill blends and half of other pipe blends STG produces. Personally I'll be doubling down on my support for Cornell & Diehl and Gawith Hoggarth and buying most of my blends from them for the foreseeable future.
It’s a shame that so many great blends are likely to disappear.
Shivering my Timbers about the HH line
With Laudisi's purchase of Kapp & Peterson several years ago, and the old Dunhill "T's" already having been rebranded to Peterson, it sure would make sense for a deal to be stuck for Laudisi to acquire the former Dunhill "T's" from STG.
God I would hope so. And maybe they could bring Aperitif back.
Bradley, as usual, I appreciate your approach. Thank you for sharing the information you have received. Kudos for trying to vet the facts before the video, but knowing when to share. You did your due diligence.
I appreciate that!
@@stuffandthingsyoutube I really enjoyed your thorough and measured breakdown of this devoid of any hyperbole. With likely further big changes in the industry on the horizon it could be worth you making a semi regular news video. I'm sure you could come up with a good title for it.
"The de-listings will continue until morale/sales improve."
Sounds like : “ if you don’t purchase our f*****g blends, I’ll cut the production of all your favorites blends ahah (so that you’ll buy our stuff even less)” I’m sure there is a great mind working behind all this.
Thank you so much sir you're a modern Paul Revere !! Your a great American and thank you for spreading the information!!
The most awaited video ever! 🎉
Thank you for all your work getting this information and sharing with us. Very helpful to know.
This is what I was afraid of, thanks for reporting on this Bradley.
Great job. Your most important video so far.
I appreciate that!
Can someone tell me what "Pipe Tea" is? Im gathering its something from Mac Baren, but have never heard of it.
"T" simply stands for tobacco. Bradley doesn't like to use the word in his videos because RUclips isn't a fan of the subject.
The dissolution of Sutliff will absolutely destroy most brick and mortar stores, due to the blending components they sell, which I'm sure was the plan for STG. I bet they'd love to force all local shops out of business to guide everyone to their dogshit online store. I hate STG.
Well done, Bradley. Thank you.
Can you do a video on what the smaller tobacco companies are you recommend checking out?
Good idea for a video
Thank you for the report
Just started my pipe journey in October 2023. I absolutely love several Dunhill/Peterson blends. Gonna grab 50 tins online tonight. 10 EM, 10 Standard, 10 mm 965, and 20 Nightcap
You won’t
@krandom354 guarantee 💯 happening
I grabbed the last tub of Mixture 79 just because.
Thanks for your investigation and insightful opinions Bradley - much appreciated. STG's takeover is extremely disappointing, not just for the loss of beloved brands and products, but also because it provides another baneful example of the near inevitability of brand rationalisation, (more accurately: brand destruction) once the myopic, number-crunching MBA's get involved. Also, 'generational change' involving putting a moron family member in change of anything too often spells doom!
Oh, cheers from the authoritarian 'nanny state' formerly known as Australia, where a 50g tin of my beloved Petersen Sweet Killarney costs A$165.00, and with C&D blends costing A$175.00😎
Noooooo! Not Nightcap! 😢
Aww, man, that was one of the ones I wanted to pick up. Ordered over 20 blends from P&C over Black Friday week, really filled out my repertoir of tins and bags, but I didn't pick up any Peterson's or other of their brands.
Thank you for taking the time in explaining the future of our lovely hobby. Excellent job!!!!
Thank you. Bradley, for another good video and especially for your efforts to get the real truth. All in all. The results sre very SAD for those of us in the hobby. Going forward. As others have pointed out, we do need to support C&D and other houses. The closing of these two houses in particular is bad. Because of the Dunhill offerings being scrapped, Sutliff makes some pretty good Dunhill matches and bulk offerings. I wonder if C&D would be in a position to buy at least the rights to the Dunhill recipes or the Sutliff match recipes?
Happy puffing !!!
Jeff
Thank you for the big scoop on the low down. chin up, happy holidays and let us all be thankful for what we have.
Man, this is rough. One things for sure moving forward - friends dont let friends buy STG.
Alrighty then. Time to stock up on the HH line
Thanks for doing this video and for the info., So Sad… I say we should definitely boycott Sutliff and MacBaren blends going forward! Be Well 👍
@@robaustin9220 It sounds like STG has already made that a thing. Can't boycott what already is dead. But if you look at the back of a lot of tins, they are made by STG. Which if you boycott them, you will be very limited. And if C&D sell, we will be in big trouble. Most of my cigars are sold by STG out of Pennsylvania. So they have cornered the market.
I sure hope I have enough Capstan cellared. 😬 And all those Sutliff bulk blends I love… devastating! Thanks for the sleuthing, Bradley.
Won't be hard to support independents at this point in time such as C & D. There are some fantastic offerings. Thanks for this report, as hard as it was to hear.
Thank you for this.
Thank you very much for all your leg work and organization of the information. It is very sad to see 100+ year old companies just thrown away. Big money and corporate greed is the reason, STG doesn't give a damn about there customers, so sad to say. We will have to see what left of all our favorite blends. And if they will even be blended the same anymore. I simple will NOT buy anything from STG EVER. How very sad. Thanks so much again. Take care and God Bless
Thank you!
Aside from Cornell and diehl can you give us a list of other independent manufacturers
Off the top of my head I think.....gowaith in the UK, dan tobacco, and gl pease
Be honest Mr. Bradley, how many tins of Elizabethan did you order after getting that email? 😉
Which means there will be a mad rush on their blends, price inflation, ridiculous hoarding. Second Verse, Same as the First.
Yep. It's going to be awhile before the dust settles.
@@stuffandthingsyoutube We survived McClellan disappearing, and the disappearance of Dunhill, we will survive this if people can just maintain their composure- but they won't. It will be unfortunate.
Love the Elizabethan myself, it's been my main tobacco for the last 6 months.
Lots of my subs sending me to this video. After listening I’m left deflated and very concerned for the future of our hobby. Based on STG’s financial report it seems clear that they have zero interest in pipe smoking and 100% interest in growing their cigar side of the business. What I’m struggling to understand is why they bothered acquiring MB and Sutliff. Unless they’re so ruthless in their strategy that they want to covert pipe smokers to cigars. Thanks for this comprehensive video.
Yes, I think we're seeing just how niche the whole pipe thing is.
Thank you for this video Bradley.
I wonder what will happen to the Lane blends ?????
Time to stock up on molto dolce
Not happy about about Cup O' Joe's though. My go to sit to order from. But my secondary is The Country Squire, an amazing American tobacconist who I do not mind supporting. I love their house blends!
Bradley, thanks for the video. This is sad. I’m really glad that a few years back, I stocked up on my favorite blends. Realistically, I probably have enough of my favorite blends to last me till I die. Still really sad.
I'm cellared so deep, I should last until I die...
Same here, and no doubt many others. May not be the T apocalypse but it's a jolt.
STG ruins everything they touch. I have no idea how corporations like STG think they improve anything in the industry they're in. Lesson of the day is small business owners should never sell out to a corporate overlord like STG.
It's the same thing that happened to the American steel industry. The companies got taken over by people who didn't want to be in the steel industry, they wanted to be bankers. The only assets they had were the steel mills, which were scrapped for their play money.
That’s the thing that bothers me. Why would these long lasting family owned companies sell to a company like SGT? They know it will just cripple and monopolise the industry.
SGT don’t hide who they are so I’m not mad at them, I’m frustrated with the people that decide to sell to them.
@@jackdavies8317 I think family owned companies who sell out are often run by second and third generation owners (e.g. kids, grand kids, other family members) who have little to no emotional attachment to the original founding principles, passions, etc. of their predecessors. It sucks for those who suffer (customers, employees) but I understand new business stewards having no connection to these things, especially in the tobacco industry, which is seen as an unhealthy, dying industry.
The HH line and Peterson blends should be the focus on continuity. SPC has a couple good ones, but the HH and Peterson’s could be replicated by Mr Reeves.
I'm Farley new to Pipe smoking. Is this anything i should be worried about. Upon research i see far more company's out there who make Pipe Tabacco. So i'm guessing those brands that are going away are alot of smokers favorite brands.
Awful news, but great reporting and info, thank you…totally agree with your call to start exploring and supporting C&D, we need to keep them in business!
I did not realize they also owned the US online stores. Just a few weeks ago they announced that they stopped all international shipping, so I can no longer get my favorite blends that are not available here in Japan (Cobblestone).
Thank you for the update. Wish it were better news, but this is what we get when beancounters run the show.
If I was to try to find a positive here, it would be that STG is likely doing what it can to keep the tobacco industry viable with the continued onslaught of regulatory pressures.
Will it work? Hard to say.
But this is yet another demonstration of why corporations suck at handling artisan industries. They will never prioritize providing products that consumers are passionate about if that can't be represented sufficiently in numbers.
Thank you, agree 100%
Maybe the Peterson blends will go to laudise since they own smoking pipes C&D and recently bought Peterson pipes and whatever other brands are associated with all that mess. It really seems like there is only two companies out there now anyway both of those two and once the checkbooks come out it’s a matter of time until one of those two own basically the industry.
Yes, I was wondering if this is the real reason STG wants to phase out the Peterson line--they may not be making full profit on it because they don't own the brand name.
@ you could be onto something there.
This stinks. This whole profits over everything gets old, keep your dirty hands off my Tobacco! I'll make it a goal of mine to avoid purchasing any products owned or sold by STG to further mitigate their acquisitions of destruction! Beyond that, thank you. I appreciate you covering this!
Thanks for watching!
wtf even the dunhill/peterson blends! I hate the world.
Man, I'm glad that STG has my best interests in mind by simplifying offerings to the customer! It sure gave me a big headache deciding what blends I wanted to purchase... now I won't have to worry about that anymore! No more analysis paralysis for this guy.
I'm especially excited for Project 2028, when I'll only have to make one choice when ordering: tobacco! It's just tobacco! No frills, no fluff! 👍
Well, that sucks. Thanks for the video.
I wonder about the codger blends like half and half or velvet. I don’t know how many are under the stg name but I knows those are.
Hello Bradley 🌱
I truly Hope they're can be a future correspondence arrangement with Sutliff representatives. Agreed, it is frustrating with regards towards share holders take the place of the consumers voice.
Corporate greed sucks!
.....................................................................
Omaha, Nebraska🌽
I just recently got back into the hobby, and Sutliff has always been my go to, I’m grateful for the opportunity to stock up my cellar before everything goes tits up. But man am I really sad with the direction this takes the industry. I genuinely wish there was something to be done legally about the monopoly here.
The scrapping of the equipment is brutal. C&D won’t be able to make ropes/coins…. The only ropes made in the world will be Gawith. But no coins. The equipment for making toasted burley. Gone. The presses. Gone. The cutters. Gone.
Laudisi can hopefully pick up some of what’s left behind… blending Seattle Pipe Club items, and that sort of thing. If they’re smart, and have the capital, they should hire Per George Jensen and have him start new blend lines, perhaps having him team up with Pease and also creating new blends. Maybe match blends of eradicated MB blends, etc.
The closing of Sutliff is the worst part because of their components lines. B&Ms and other boutique blenders will be SOL because of this. 🤦♂️
This is the worst thing to happen to the world wide tobacco market in history. I hope Laudisi can profit from this move by STG.
Yes. I'd still like to here from STG, but this move (scrapping the equipment) seems particularly egregious.
So C&D uses Sutliff equipment to make ropes/coins, toasted burley? Had no idea, if so.
@@mscar8024no. C&D uses toasted burley by Sutliff in some of their blends. What I’m saying is components like this will become extinct because the Sutliff equipment is being scrapped and not sold. From what MB has said in the past, the machines used to create ropes and then coins were very old and no longer made. These machines are also going to be scrapped and not sold. So, no one can buy them and start making coins for themselves. The only other tobacco company I know of making ropes is Gawith, who has rope machines. Basically STG is about to create a void in the market by scrapping this equipment. Over a hundred years of tradition and blends will be gone, because of their choices.
Does anyone have any more information regarding the coin making ability of tobacco manufacturers? Does this mean flake medallion and escudo will be gone?
@@stacenmfrom what I’ve heard, Mac Baren has this equipment. They make things like Escudo. But I guess it will all depend upon what STG decides they want to continue making. Right now, it’s up in the air. From what Per George said a few years ago, MB has the only rope and coin machines and they are very old machines. Gawith has rope machines as well, which are also very old.
This sucks. Thanks for doing the footwork to let us know what’s going on.
Man, I just started this hobby earlier in the year, and now blends are going to be disappearing before I even try them. So sad…. Greed ruins everything. I hope STG reads these comments because Escudo & OGS are some of my favorite blends, but now I'm going to be looking for favorites elsewhere. Word of advice STG - don't underestimate Americans when it comes to loyalty and their freedom of choice. Unlike most countries, we can afford to make different choices.
There is an obvious downside to this but perhaps things will shake out with some positives as well.
There is certainly a finite amount if quality tobacco produced worldwide. If STG places less emphasis on pipe tobacco perhaps other producers such as Gawith, Kopp , C&D etc may be able to procure more of the quality leaf resulting in more of their quality blends which are currently difficult to obtain.
Additionally we may see them attempt to reproduce any of our favorites that may be discontinued. Time will tell. All we can do is wait this out and know this IS an opportunity for the other producers to move into the vacuum that is coming. Perhaps even some new blends will arise. This is the way of things.
thanks for your time and work putting this information together. it seems stg will sell us what we need as they dictate and we'll like it or not.
Sad news, makes me never want to buy from STG again. Luckily I've got a cellar big enough to never buy again if I chose too. Such a bummer
I am going to start buying ONLY tobacco from Laudisi and C&D, and buying products FROM only Laudisi's store (smokingpipes) from now on.
You should buy from the smaller shops, too. Like Watch City, The Country Squire, and 4noggins.
WV Smokeshop
Sounds like we will just have an STG/Sutliff/McB greatest hits starting in 2025. I’m glad we still have C&D/GLP, HU, and Gawith, but fans of the other stuff will want to stock up.
Will this take out the Newminster blends as well? I believe they were Mac Baren?
I find it very difficult to believe that the Peterson, formally Dunhill, blends are having troubles with sales globally. I would suggest that the, now Peterson blends, are the highest selling blends because of international popularity. This is definitely a PR nightmare for STG. I don’t see STG recovering from an announcement like this, however possibly the best move for the consumer is to continue purchasing your favorite blends in hopes of saving the blends from being discontinued. If not you would have a stocked cellar.
You have to understand. It’s not about total revenue. It’s total return on investment including supply chains and manufacturing complexity.
It may sell better but another blend has a higher margin. If they make more of X blend, market it, and push retail for it would it reduce complexity and increase profit over 1,3, or 5 years? That’s the type of questions they are asking.
Many popular and successful products you have likely bought have been discontinued over the years. Have you ever thought why? It’s because their metric for what they make isn’t just sales. Unfortunately, Leatherman fans have learned this over the last 5-10 years.
This seems to be pretty much what most have reported who knew people at one of the companies. So, this seems pretty likely to be correct.
As a beer geek for the last couple decades, this all seems pretty familiar - STG is clearly the A-B/In-Bev of the pipe tobacco "industry" and it's bad for consumers and bad for the industry. I'm still fairly novice about the various pipe tobacco companies - so I'm curious - how does this impact individual tobacconists and house blends (such as Country Squire, etc.) And what are our "craft" alternatives in the US for pipe tobacco if we don't want to give STG our business moving forward?
There are smaller companies out there for sure, but much of their fulfillment was through Sutliff as well.
I'm trying to imagine a world without My Mixture 965...
And I had just found Sutliff Match 20 as an inexpensive copycat...
I was expecting bad news but not this bad! Say less. I've just ordered a lb of bold Kentucky and 10 tins of irish flake. Plum Pudding special reserve is next. I'm buying them every months until they close.
Once they close, I'm in full agreement with you, Bradley. We have to give more support to C&D, as well as any other people who produce pipe blends here in the US. I disagree with you on the boycott thing, though. Once i get my cellar shored up, I'm basically never gonna buy anything STG again. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone else did.
The country squire blends are about to get even more popular 😂
Bradley, if our beloved Elizabethan Mixture did go away would your go to replacement still be GL Pease’s Stratford?
I think so.
The generational passion and knowledge vacuum continues. The offspring of pioneers in many industiees have not "caught" the vision or developed the passion; they have instead learned to spend the money it created and love nothing else. Sadly, in many industries that have "enemies" in the political correct world, when they can't shame people out of a popular hobby or way of life, they buy up the main suppliers and shut the doors. An alternate business model and interest driven companies is the way forward, hopefully a lesson will be taught to those craving only money, that where there is a will and passion, the people will prevail.
Nicely done Bradley.
Missouri Meerschaum has already announced their blends are going away. They're all made by Sutliff.
I knew STG was an evil empire when they bought Planta just to get Presbyterian and scrapped everything else.
Or was that Mac Baren
Thank you for sharing this. Doesn't sound good for the pipe and tobacco community, just for STG's bottom line.