Great info , very informative to newbie. I’m 95% sure I’m going to purchase the W8, not happy of the mismatches , but now I see from you that can be rectified. But I was going to go with the KT88 version . ( using not to efficient speakers) . Will be waiting to compare 6500 to KT88 and maybe your idea of purchasing simply the cheapest set-up with EL 34 is the wise decision . Then replace . Thanks again
Mabye take a look at the 6CA7. It should work better in the R8 then the KT88, and be somewhere in between the EL34 and the KT88 in characteristics. I have an R8 on the way and not to efficient speakers, and thinking of going with a matched quad of EH 6CA7 "fat bottle". They are not vinatge but hence a lot cheaper and are getting great reviews from R8 owners.
As a "vintage" tube seller I normally only review what I have in stock, sometimes I'll have a "modern" tube or "reissue" and I'll include it for comparison. But my passion is vintage! It's a rare day that a modern tube outperforms a nice vintage version.
@@tubelab194 There are few exceptions where modern outperforms vintage. The best examples is that of the Sovtek 12AX7LPS, which outperformed almost all US-made types in a blind test (only the Mullard and Telefunken remained unsurpassed).
S_service is tube made by RFT.................and sold under various brand names.........EL34 RFT made in the seventies had ultra thick cathode coatings and a VERY long /extended lifetime.( even sold as TFK)
Tesla is a shortcut of TEchnika SLAboproudá which means low current technique. Maybe the translation isn't 100% accurate. I'm now building an amp with them - stereo 2x50W, 2x EL34 per channel and the Toroidy output transformers for KT88 pushpull
I have this 90's Audio Innovations Classic Stereo 25 with the Svetlana ( Winged S) and some telefunken ECC803s(goldpinned) ECC83 and some TAD12AU7A in there, my first decent tubeamp combined with some JBL L19 and still wondering if this Willsenton R8 would be the next thing to consider...
If you haven't replaced / upgraded the pots, electrolytic and coupling capacitors, it may be worthwhile doing that and have a listen. You may find your existing amp sounds great and no need to upgrade. Remember the Tubes are the Amplifiers, everything else is just tying them together. The only other components that are critical, are the output transformers and if they're good quality, then you are good!
Notice how the Electroharmonix, Reissue Mullard, and other Sovtek EL34's have plate structures that look like the RFT/Siemens? That's because when Sovtek first produced the EL34 (as EL34G), there were trying to emulate RFT, albeit unsuccessfully. Similarly, you might have noticed how some Shuguang types have plates that look like vintage Matsushita EL34's as the Chinese tried to copy the Japanese types, also unsuccessfully.
This is a very good point! Yes many 2nd and 3rd generation tubes, follow this pattern of building to a known good 1st generation. Almost never do we see an attempt at a brand new design, though some high end Chinese tubes are doing just that, taking the best of the past and merging it with modern manufacturing materials and methods, with good results in many cases. And yes I agree 100%, very very few so called "reissue" tubes are worthy of the name they take from the past - in any way.
If they are early nineties they should have black bases (I think), the original factory in Czekoslvakia made mostly dark brown bases in 1950's and 60's, the pins are crude rough looking stubby things and the brown bases discolored with heat. The modern copy/reissue has a light brown (milk chocolate) base that looks perfect. This copy is the most common version you'll find available and is nothing like the real tube.
I have a pair of RFT EL34, still in factory packaging. Calvert Electronics Inc. what is ironic is these East German tubes are in NATO NSN part numbered boxes.
Hey Jim, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I think I have a bad EL 34 tube in my Willsenton R8. As a newbie, can I replace that individual tube with another brand without messing anything up? Could I put and 88 in there or does there have to be a sense of symmetry with the number of tubes on the unit. I would love your advice. Thanks in advance.
Same type, same manufacturer, matched electrically as a quad (4 tubes) is critical for good sound. When I sell a quad of matched power tubes I always recommend buying a matched spare. And we always record the test numbers, so if at a later date you need a replacement,we at least know what to look for - we may not always stock a correct replacement, but at least we have a chance at a match.
Did I say holes? If so I meant to say rectangular slots or slits. The cathode of the EL34 or any power tube for that matter gets extremely hot and I'm pretty certain the openings we see on the plates are meant to help dissipate the heat. On the EL84 the smaller cousin of the EL34 you can clearly see heat residue on the glass directly in line with the plate openings. I'm open to another explanation.
I've always wondered about this as well. The tube has a vacuum inside it (duh), so no air. Therefore, those apertures can't possibly be there for air cooling, right? I'm not sure what they do, but obviously they do something, or else the manufacturer wouldn't put them there
Chrome dome is a different getter technologie.................!!! Those getters were only active when activated.........very rre and sought after.....some 6SN7 tubes have chrome domes !!!
As with Derek below, I am investigating tube amps with a possible purchase in the future. However, common sense tells me that I am an idiot to consider the purchase of a piece of stereo equipment without first listening to it in person. I live up hill from Sacramento in California, which seems to be similar to the Gobi Desert when it comes to stereo equipment. My existing system is antediluvian, Klipsch Cornwall I speakers, B&O Beogram 1700 turn table and Nakamichi SR-3A tuner/ amp. A fit of insanity prods me into the possible purchase of a tube amp. The Willsenton R8 is one possibility. (I might have to fly to China to hear one play.) Three days ago I had never heard of tube rolling-is that the correct term? Does anyone own an R8? If so, do you recommend it? IT currently is selling for over $1500 on the Internet. Will I have to spend a lot more to obtain the better tubes? Any direction in this arena is appreciated. THANKS
Yup it's called tube rolling, you roll a set out and roll a set in, lots of fun and the rewards are an improvement in sound, often significant. Remember the tubes ARE the amplifiers, yes you need a bunch of inexpensive resistors and capacitors to wire it up and a quality output transformer, but by changing the tubes you can have a very different amp. The best price on the R8 for me was direct from China (Chi-Fi.com? something like that), if you are patient and choose the slow boat option the shipping is reasonable for a 50# box. The stock tubes in my amp were so bad I threw out the power tubes. But in fareness I specialize in quality vintage tubes and because I've been selling a lot of complete sets to R8 owners have come to specialize in R8 tubes. The R8 is a steal at the selling price, even if you spend another 50% installing quality tubes. It doesn't matter what new tube amp you buy, you will eventually decide to re-tube it. I would say the R8 is a perfect introduction to tube amplifiers, maybe at some point you'll want to hear what a single ended triode (SET) amp sounds like, but for an affordable, easy to operate quality tube amp it's hard to beat as an introduction to the amazing sound of tubes!
@@tubelab194 Thanks, Jim. How does the R8 compare with a 300B amp? Steve Guttenberg totus the Boyuurange A50 Mk III, which is available for less money. He says that a 300B is the best tube amp system. My reservation with that choice is that it only goes down to 30Hz. (I don't know if I could hear the difference but I LOVE the Klipsch sound.) That amp comes with the PSVANE rectifier tubes. Are they a Chinese knockoff or a descent tube? Your thoughts? THANKS, Mike
@@Oldgoat912 I'm not intimate with a 300b amp, though one is on the drawing board. The two amps couldn't be more different, a SET 300b is going to have lower power (about 8w), and higher noise floor, while the R8 will have much more power (45w in UL with KT88) and with the push pull design comes very low noise. Single ended amps have a unique sound that is clean and clear as well as very intimate (I run a pair of custom 6L6 SE monoblocks). If you go the low power option, you either need very efficient speakers or you commit to a normal listening volume. Most audio enthusiasts will have several amps and enjoy them all. Even though my favourite amps are single ended, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time with the R8.
@@tubelab194 Thanks, Jim. I am confident that my Klipsch Corhwalls can handle the 8W signal nicely. Unfortunately, with every question I ask, I end up with my having two more. I see a tube purchase from you in the future.
I personally love the Willsenton r8 with my Klipsch Forte IIIs. I have had it with stock tubes for about 6 months and am going to start collecting tubes here soon to get rolling.
NOS TESLA EL34 has a brown base !!!!!.............these are E34L........could be JJ with Tesla name ... The real TESLA E34L had the best bass of any 34 tubes.....
Tesla plant moved and they produced same tube as the older brown base series but with black base. I have both examples and I can't tell the difference. Many people who know more about this tube than me prefer the brown base version. And that is the one I commonly find!
Hey Frank, I would be very interested to hear what you think are the differences… I have numerous quads of each (brown & black based original TESLA, not JJ crap) and honestly, I cannot tell any sonic or even construction differences between the two.
Your subjective descriptions of the "sound" of these tubes are meaningless. Let's see some DATA. Use an audio analyzer or an oscilloscope with Bode Plot functionality and sweep the amplifier with the different tubes installed, under otherwise identical operating conditions, and let's SEE the differences in frequency response for each via those Bode plots or spectrum captures.
With all due respect, listening, I mean really listening is a far more valuable tool than any sweep. Now that said, we do sweep our Kit designs during development and it can provide valuable information. But ultimately critical listening is far more useful in tube rolling and amp design, in our experience. I was an audiophile in the 70's when all we wanted was the specifications and the sweeps, and our equipment had the life sucked out of it by designers relying on what their screens were saying, instead of what their ears were hearing - never again.
Хобби
Love this bloke.Articulate and tells me exactly what I want to know.Thank you for you time.Cheers
Great info , very informative to newbie. I’m 95% sure I’m going to purchase the W8, not happy of the mismatches , but now I see from you that can be rectified. But I was going to go with the KT88 version . ( using not to efficient speakers) . Will be waiting to compare 6500 to KT88 and maybe your idea of purchasing simply the cheapest set-up with EL 34 is the wise decision . Then replace . Thanks again
Mabye take a look at the 6CA7. It should work better in the R8 then the KT88, and be somewhere in between the EL34 and the KT88 in characteristics. I have an R8 on the way and not to efficient speakers, and thinking of going with a matched quad of EH 6CA7 "fat bottle". They are not vinatge but hence a lot cheaper and are getting great reviews from R8 owners.
Nicely done !
Pity that you had no words for the modern JJ Tesla's.
As a "vintage" tube seller I normally only review what I have in stock, sometimes I'll have a "modern" tube or "reissue" and I'll include it for comparison. But my passion is vintage! It's a rare day that a modern tube outperforms a nice vintage version.
@@tubelab194 There are few exceptions where modern outperforms vintage. The best examples is that of the Sovtek 12AX7LPS, which outperformed almost all US-made types in a blind test (only the Mullard and Telefunken remained unsurpassed).
S_service is tube made by RFT.................and sold under various brand names.........EL34 RFT made in the seventies had ultra thick cathode coatings and a VERY long /extended lifetime.( even sold as TFK)
I have some pre Serbian war EI branded EL34. I haven’t found much information on these. How do these rate in guitar amps.?
Tesla is a shortcut of TEchnika SLAboproudá which means low current technique. Maybe the translation isn't 100% accurate. I'm now building an amp with them - stereo 2x50W, 2x EL34 per channel and the Toroidy output transformers for KT88 pushpull
I have this 90's Audio Innovations Classic Stereo 25 with the Svetlana ( Winged S) and some telefunken ECC803s(goldpinned) ECC83 and some TAD12AU7A in there, my first decent tubeamp combined with some JBL L19 and still wondering if this Willsenton R8 would be the next thing to consider...
If you haven't replaced / upgraded the pots, electrolytic and coupling capacitors, it may be worthwhile doing that and have a listen. You may find your existing amp sounds great and no need to upgrade. Remember the Tubes are the Amplifiers, everything else is just tying them together. The only other components that are critical, are the output transformers and if they're good quality, then you are good!
Notice how the Electroharmonix, Reissue Mullard, and other Sovtek EL34's have plate structures that look like the RFT/Siemens? That's because when Sovtek first produced the EL34 (as EL34G), there were trying to emulate RFT, albeit unsuccessfully. Similarly, you might have noticed how some Shuguang types have plates that look like vintage Matsushita EL34's as the Chinese tried to copy the Japanese types, also unsuccessfully.
This is a very good point! Yes many 2nd and 3rd generation tubes, follow this pattern of building to a known good 1st generation. Almost never do we see an attempt at a brand new design, though some high end Chinese tubes are doing just that, taking the best of the past and merging it with modern manufacturing materials and methods, with good results in many cases. And yes I agree 100%, very very few so called "reissue" tubes are worthy of the name they take from the past - in any way.
great video! I have some teslas (early 90's) that are just like the ones there, but with brown base... do you know anything about them?
If they are early nineties they should have black bases (I think), the original factory in Czekoslvakia made mostly dark brown bases in 1950's and 60's, the pins are crude rough looking stubby things and the brown bases discolored with heat. The modern copy/reissue has a light brown (milk chocolate) base that looks perfect. This copy is the most common version you'll find available and is nothing like the real tube.
I have a pair of RFT EL34, still in factory packaging. Calvert Electronics Inc. what is ironic is these East German tubes are in NATO NSN part numbered boxes.
Hey Jim, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I think I have a bad EL 34 tube in my Willsenton R8. As a newbie, can I replace that individual tube with another brand without messing anything up? Could I put and 88 in there or does there have to be a sense of symmetry with the number of tubes on the unit. I would love your advice. Thanks in advance.
Same type, same manufacturer, matched electrically as a quad (4 tubes) is critical for good sound. When I sell a quad of matched power tubes I always recommend buying a matched spare. And we always record the test numbers, so if at a later date you need a replacement,we at least know what to look for - we may not always stock a correct replacement, but at least we have a chance at a match.
@@tubelab194 Thank you, Jim, for taking the time to give me some guidance. I’m sure your advice is something that can be used by many of us!
RFT's are great tubes. I had those and sound and perform much better than old Tesla.
Damn … threw the Mullard Reissue in the trash? Lol
Ventilation holes?
Did I say holes? If so I meant to say rectangular slots or slits. The cathode of the EL34 or any power tube for that matter gets extremely hot and I'm pretty certain the openings we see on the plates are meant to help dissipate the heat. On the EL84 the smaller cousin of the EL34 you can clearly see heat residue on the glass directly in line with the plate openings. I'm open to another explanation.
I've always wondered about this as well. The tube has a vacuum inside it (duh), so no air. Therefore, those apertures can't possibly be there for air cooling, right? I'm not sure what they do, but obviously they do something, or else the manufacturer wouldn't put them there
Chrome dome is a different getter technologie.................!!! Those getters were only active when activated.........very rre and sought after.....some 6SN7 tubes have chrome domes !!!
As with Derek below, I am investigating tube amps with a possible purchase in the future. However, common sense tells me that I am an idiot to consider the purchase of a piece of stereo equipment without first listening to it in person. I live up hill from Sacramento in California, which seems to be similar to the Gobi Desert when it comes to stereo equipment. My existing system is antediluvian, Klipsch Cornwall I speakers, B&O Beogram 1700 turn table and Nakamichi SR-3A tuner/ amp. A fit of insanity prods me into the possible purchase of a tube amp. The Willsenton R8 is one possibility. (I might have to fly to China to hear one play.)
Three days ago I had never heard of tube rolling-is that the correct term?
Does anyone own an R8? If so, do you recommend it? IT currently is selling for over $1500 on the Internet. Will I have to spend a lot more to obtain the better tubes?
Any direction in this arena is appreciated. THANKS
Yup it's called tube rolling, you roll a set out and roll a set in, lots of fun and the rewards are an improvement in sound, often significant. Remember the tubes ARE the amplifiers, yes you need a bunch of inexpensive resistors and capacitors to wire it up and a quality output transformer, but by changing the tubes you can have a very different amp. The best price on the R8 for me was direct from China (Chi-Fi.com? something like that), if you are patient and choose the slow boat option the shipping is reasonable for a 50# box. The stock tubes in my amp were so bad I threw out the power tubes. But in fareness I specialize in quality vintage tubes and because I've been selling a lot of complete sets to R8 owners have come to specialize in R8 tubes. The R8 is a steal at the selling price, even if you spend another 50% installing quality tubes. It doesn't matter what new tube amp you buy, you will eventually decide to re-tube it. I would say the R8 is a perfect introduction to tube amplifiers, maybe at some point you'll want to hear what a single ended triode (SET) amp sounds like, but for an affordable, easy to operate quality tube amp it's hard to beat as an introduction to the amazing sound of tubes!
@@tubelab194 Thanks, Jim. How does the R8 compare with a 300B amp? Steve Guttenberg totus the Boyuurange A50 Mk III, which is available for less money. He says that a 300B is the best tube amp system. My reservation with that choice is that it only goes down to 30Hz. (I don't know if I could hear the difference but I LOVE the Klipsch sound.) That amp comes with the PSVANE rectifier tubes. Are they a Chinese knockoff or a descent tube?
Your thoughts? THANKS, Mike
@@Oldgoat912 I'm not intimate with a 300b amp, though one is on the drawing board. The two amps couldn't be more different, a SET 300b is going to have lower power (about 8w), and higher noise floor, while the R8 will have much more power (45w in UL with KT88) and with the push pull design comes very low noise. Single ended amps have a unique sound that is clean and clear as well as very intimate (I run a pair of custom 6L6 SE monoblocks). If you go the low power option, you either need very efficient speakers or you commit to a normal listening volume. Most audio enthusiasts will have several amps and enjoy them all. Even though my favourite amps are single ended, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time with the R8.
@@tubelab194 Thanks, Jim. I am confident that my Klipsch Corhwalls can handle the 8W signal nicely. Unfortunately, with every question I ask, I end up with my having two more. I see a tube purchase from you in the future.
I personally love the Willsenton r8 with my Klipsch Forte IIIs. I have had it with stock tubes for about 6 months and am going to start collecting tubes here soon to get rolling.
The Tesla you're reviewing is not an EL34 but an E34L, which is a slightly different tube.
Thanks for the additional information! Nothing online about the EL34L, can you add any additional information.
NOS TESLA EL34 has a brown base !!!!!.............these are E34L........could be JJ with Tesla name ...
The real TESLA E34L had the best bass of any 34 tubes.....
Tesla plant moved and they produced same tube as the older brown base series but with black base. I have both examples and I can't tell the difference. Many people who know more about this tube than me prefer the brown base version. And that is the one I commonly find!
Hey Frank, I would be very interested to hear what you think are the differences…
I have numerous quads of each (brown & black based original TESLA, not JJ crap) and honestly, I cannot tell any sonic or even construction differences between the two.
Your subjective descriptions of the "sound" of these tubes are meaningless. Let's see some DATA. Use an audio analyzer or an oscilloscope with Bode Plot functionality and sweep the amplifier with the different tubes installed, under otherwise identical operating conditions, and let's SEE the differences in frequency response for each via those Bode plots or spectrum captures.
With all due respect, listening, I mean really listening is a far more valuable tool than any sweep. Now that said, we do sweep our Kit designs during development and it can provide valuable information. But ultimately critical listening is far more useful in tube rolling and amp design, in our experience. I was an audiophile in the 70's when all we wanted was the specifications and the sweeps, and our equipment had the life sucked out of it by designers relying on what their screens were saying, instead of what their ears were hearing - never again.