That face Longstreet has kills me....like he wants to tell Lee...."put that crack pipe down...I'm not splittin no Federal lines from here across all that open land".
A good officer brings solutions, not more problems. He knew and used great logic to make his point and a counter offer. Little did he know Lee had already made his mind and did what every good soldier does, follow orders to the best of his ability.
@Mr Pate It is a military axiom that you do not reinforce defeat. If Longstreet had thrown his 15,000 "reinforcements" (that would be the remnants of Hood and McLaws Divisions, shot to rags and with most of their officers dead or captured) he would have been magnifying the loss of the Charge...and depriving the ANV of the last possible source of reserves they possessed...leaving the army open to the Union counterattack mentioned later in the film, which did not take place. Longstreet was correct...Lee's orders fed three divisions into a meat grinder. And that meat grinder was still in place and entrenched. The "reinforcements" of which you speak would have covered the same ground at Pickett, totally devoid of any artillery support and still flanked and outgunned by the Union troops holding the ridge.
donwild50 as a retired Army Officer, graduate of both The U.S. Army War College, and the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, all I can say about your post is, “ on target, fire for effect!”.
@SouthernDude82 .... the attack on the Federal center known to history as Pickett’s Charge, was doomed from its inception, impossible in its execution, and disastrous in its results. Your assertion that the remnants of Hood’s and McClaw’s Divisions plus additional units from AP Hill’s Corps would have penetrated the Union Center is ridiculous. Hood’s and McClaw’s Divisions after day two were completely combat ineffective, and the remaining division of Hill’s Corps was battered on Day 1 in the initial fight for Seminary Ridge. Even if a follow up assault wave close on the heels of the initial attack were successful, The Army of the Potomac, had substantial uncommitted reinforcements that could be rushed along interior lines to seal the breakthrough. The South’s best chance at Gettysburg was on day two. If Longstreet had Pickett’s Division available the Federal left flank would have caved in, but Pickett was still miles away. Your verdict that Longstreet’s actions during the charge were treasonable is a bit harsh. In all my reading I’ve not heard it before. Still, I enjoyed your post thank you.
I like Berenger a lot in his many roles but in Gettysburg, I thought in some of his lines, his delivery was sometimes kind of stilted or something. The spacing of spoken words with very specific over pronunciations. I would blame the Director of the movie, Ronald Maxwell for that. Berenger would probably delivered his lines more realistically if he had it his way.
I really hope they make that Last Full Measure movie with Tom Berenger reprising his role definitely my favorite of his. He act's just like Longstreet did in the book and in real life.
In these scenes, General Lee has such a "Superior" way and look about him, that, although he doesn't want to, General Longstreet knows that tryin' to talk to General Lee at this point, would be like talking to a wall! He tries and tries to, in a gentle way, of course, dissuade General Lee from making that kind of March, straight into the very jaws of the Union Army, but... General Lee wasn't listening. Afterwards, though, General Lee wished that he'd listened to General Longstreet...but by then, it was far too late.
@@ronaldshank7589 I don’t get it though wasn’t Longstreet a general as well should they all have some type of say so I mean a general is a high ranking officer
@@jfontanez1838 Lee was a level up. The Confederate Army at Gettysburg had Lee in main command, with several lesser generals serving under him, who in turn had even lesser generals under them.
@@jfontanez1838the chain of command is traditionally like a pyramid. Lee is the Commander of the entire army of northern Virginia. Underneath him he would have 3-5 subordinate generals (corps commanders). Those 3-5 corps commanders would have 2-5 generals under them (division commanders). Those 2-5 division commanders would have 2-5 generals who were brigade commanders(sometimes full colonels). Beneath the brigade commanders you would have regiment commanders (full colonels). Beneath the regiment commanders you would usually have battalion commanders, and beneath these you would have company commanders.
"I'm gonna need you to feed your arm into this woodchipper." "Well, uh, what?" "The rounded nubs in the middle there, it is weakest. Your arm will break through there."
you forgot, " ill have men throw sticks into the wood-chipper to soften them up. and when you stick you arm into it. it will break. i have confidence in your arm." music intensifies.
The Union performed so poorly in the past that Lee thought this long shot was a chance of winning because the Union generals sucked. It is called hubris.
Everything was reversed from prior battles, the Confederates on the offensive/invading, the Union with the high ground, the Confederates spread out while the Union position was tighter, allowing better communication and easier to move reserves in and out and better command and control.
I love how Longstreet gives Lee this "Have you lost your mind?" look when Lee tells him to split the line 😆 And then starts laughing when explaining what will happen if he advances all of his men 😆
Lol Longstreet has that look on his face like oh split the Federal line is that all? Any infantry officer worth their salt could take one look at that field they had to cross and realize it was folly.
@@rc59191 Think about this, too:In wanting a swift end to the war, because of doing what he did (Pickett's Charge), by that one massive blunder, he started the beginning of the end of the Civil War. As for the 15,000 Men that participated in that charge, at least half of them never came back. That put a serious dent in the number of available fighting Men...plus, if you look at the number of Men he had already lost before then, that makes me wonder:How many Men did General Lee even have, when they retreated from Gettysburg, after July 3, 1863?
Gen. Longstreet was looking at Gen. Lee as if Gen. Lee was completely crazy! Gen. Longstreet turned out to be right, by the end of the day. Somewhere between 12,000-15,000 Confederate Soldiers went across that field, in what was known as Pickett's Charge, and at least 50% were killed, wounded, captured, or missing. As the remnants of the Confederates came back from that horrible fight, Gen. Lee, not knowing how many men were left, told Gen. Pickett:"Gen. Pickett, re-form your division". Then, Gen. Lee got hit with the worst shock of his life when Gen. Pickett looked straight at him and said:"Gen. Lee, I have no division left"! Gen. Pickett never forgave Gen. Lee for that disaster, and brooded on the loss until his dying day. He told someone:"That old man had my division slaughtered"!
@@carltomacruz9138 That was the casualty percentage on the day before. I believe Longstreet's men were engaged at Devils Den, and they lost about 50% of their number. A major problem by July 3rd was Lee had almost no fresh troops left. Both Longstreet and Ewell were in favor of packing up and heading out. Their idea was find a better spot and engage the federal army there. Lee however wanted to end the affair that day. So they sent George Pickett's men up that hill, and the rest is history.
@Super Slider The battle was lost when Lee failed to finish off the 1st and 11th Corps and secure the high ground. The Yankees had the heights, Stuart was nowhere to be found, A.P. Hill's command was completely wrecked and combat ineffective, and there were 5 more enemy Corps in the vicinity that nobody had eyes on. Game over at that point.
He wanted to come back for Gods & Generals too. As did Sheen. Maybe for the best since G&G was understandably criticized and stigmatized for leaning too much toward the Confederate side, and was a slow unfocused mess as well
Seems he made Longstreet a timeless every-man type character. I feel like I could see his version of Longstreet running errands at AutoZone or Home Depo just as easily as commanding troops in the Civil War....
@@paulzeigler1075 That's because he was pragmatic and down to earth in an era drenched with flowery Victorian rhetoric, head-in-the-clouds abstraction, and maudlin sentimentality.
I'd give anything to see him in a movie about Longstreet when he went to fight in the West. This was his best role in my opinion he brought the character to life.
actually, it has more to do with Lee really wanting to end the war with this battle. He knew that if that battle was lost, or even just inconclusive, there was no way the south could mount an another offensive. He focused too much on the end result.
Lee was usually frustrated with his victories, complaining in letters back home that they were never able to catch and destroy the Union army. He says it in this scene "guns by the thousands and Richmond has nothing more to send us" Lee HAD to win a decisive battle or there would be no stopping the Norths manpower and industrial advantage.
Doesn't Longstreet say in the movie "we redeploy and march towards Washington. Its their capital, and they will have to give chase and fight us and we can do so on a field of our choosing". I listened to that and it made perfect sense
Not necessarily. The Confederate army already had a tenuous supply situation, and going for Washington would make that situation worse. Plus, Washington was well fortified, and Meade could probably call up reinforcements to the capital via the rail network. Washington was a hard target, one that would be tough for a numerically superior force to take. Lee's smaller army would have been in an extremely dangerous position, with very little chance of victory.
@@tesnacloud The idea was to move towards Washington and provoke a major battle (like gettysburg) but on ground the Confederate choose. Beating a large portion of the Union Army which could have brought about a treaty or a surrender(unlikely) to end the war. This is my knowledge, I might be wrong with some points, I'm not even American.
@@rangergerald1095 The Union had to deal with the fact that Washington was on the front lines for two years now, and had built its defenses to an impressive standard. Lincoln wanted it well defended so that the Army of the Potomac could range further afield without worrying about the capital. The Confederates knew this, and marched around Washington, specifically not striking at it because of its powerful fortifications. Had they tried, the Union general in charge would have had some time before he needed to relieve Washington, and would therefore not offer the Confederates the favorable battle they were looking for
If you've been to Gettysburg, you can appreciate just how Pickett's men had to go, across open ground. When you stand where the Confederacy's line was, it gives you the chills ... it's just such a long way, uphill.
I've stood on that spot more than once and wondered how those guys must have felt. They had to know it was suicide. I will never understand how Lee couldn't see that it was going to cost him a lot of men that he couldn't afford to lose.
@@IrishCarney I was just telling somebody else, that a lot of the Artillery Barrage ended up being too high. It landed in back of the Union lines. That's the one thing, that helped to decide this battle. Because of the cannon shot landing in back of the Union lines, their lines, the Union Forces. The Union lines, being intact as they were after the Artillery Barrage, beat the Confederates. No questions asked!
Driving around Gettysburg on a hot July day is tiring. The idea of walking over fences into cannon and rifle fire carrying weapons and ammo is staggering. How Lee every thought this could work is beyond me. The reasoning that the right is strong and the left is strong so the center must be weak simply doesn't apply when you have the industrial might and the manpower of the north.
I've been to Longstreet's monument at Gettysburg. It's a very humbling sight, considering that not far away from where he was, the 1st Texas Brigade was engaged heavily for Devil's Den on Day 2 of the battle. As a born and raised Texan with ancestors who fought at both the Battle of San Jacinto for the independence of Texas in 1836, the Battle of Devil's Den at Gettysburg in July 1863, and the Second Battle of Sabine Pass in September 1863 for the Confederacy it was a very moving experience for me. He survived the war and settled in Arkansas on land that my family still owns to this day.
What I appreciate is how well this scene was acted. Berenger's Longstreet is talking shop. One professional to another, he is explaining why this thing will not work from a pure engineering perspective. He delivers his lines accordingly. Sheen's Lee is thinking politically and even a little mystically. He is slightly impatient with Longstreet: "yes, I am a professional, a trained engineer in fact. I have considered all these points. But unlike you, I have insight into the hearts of men. The Union troops will break. This is our last, best hope. We have no really good option. We are outmanned, outgunned and outspent. We have no choice but to be better. They will, in the final analysis, lack the will to resist us. The fact that I can see that and you can't simply underscores why I am commanding the Army and you are commanding your corps. Do your job". Hubris? I'm not sure I would use that word. When they lost, Lee took the blame, had they won, he would have given the glory to God. This is a General who is relying too heavily on non-quantitative factors. If he's right, he's a genius. He wasn't right here. He was on a few other occasions, as we know. Even Homer nods.
Nicely put. I think Lee also underestimated his opposite number. Say what you want about Meade but he was much more talented than McClellan, Hooker and definitely Burnside. Lee was used to dealing with buffoons commanding the Union forces. Meade wasn’t the clown Lee was expecting and it cost him.
Lee pretty much figured that he was unlikely to lead a large group of battle hardened soldiers out of Virginia again. He knew Vicksburg was about to fall and that the situation in the West was worse than people in Richmond generally knew. So in a sense you can't blame him for making a long shot gamble here, but at the same time, there will always be the "what if?"...what if he had, much like Grant did in the Overland campaign, he had pulled his army out and maneuvered around Meade toward Philadelphia or Baltimore? Stuart was with him again and could have provided enough of a screen that Meade would be uncertain where Lee might turn up.
@@hhale good points all. It all comes back to: if at first you don't secede. There were no good choices on an NPV basis. You either gave up too much territory to avoid casualties (Johnston) or took too many casualties to dispute territory (Lee). You would have had to time the market. Lee's strategy was Namath down 3 touchdowns in the 4th quarter. Like Namath, he made losing interesting.
Lee had his moments of singular brilliance. His main flaw was not hubris, at least not entirely. His main flaw was that he did not have the vision to conceptualize what was going on with other Confederate commanders in other theaters of the war.
Earlier in the film, Sam Elliot as General John Buford had a conversation with one of his subordinates about how he could actually envision the Confederate Army occupying the heights and the Union Army having to attack uphill over a long distance while under intense fire. "We will charge valiantly. And be butchered valiantly. Afterwards men in tall hats and gold watch fobs will thump their chests and say what a brave charge it was." He talked about how terrible it was to be ordered to make an ill considered attack and be unable to stop it. Worse, having to take part and help it fail. Buford was working up the nerve to deploy his heavily outnumbered cavalry to try to block the ANV from taking the high ground in hopes that federal reinforcements would come in time. This happened. So now it is the Union Army behind fat rocks on the high ground and the Confederate Army must make the impossible attack. Longstreet is suffering the very fate described by his enemy two days prior. He knows the attack will fail but he can't stop it. Worse, he has to give the order.
There are historians who question how pessimistic Longstreet says he was before the battle. His conduct that day interests me a lot. Not quite sure what to make of it myself. And, here's the thing, how can you manoeuvre past Meade without a cavalry screen?
The South would spend the third day attacking ground they controlled on the first day. Lee's choice of the word: "practicable" when giving the order to take the high ground cost the south the battle.
@@justinp5661 Put Stonewall Jackson in charge of Pickett's forces and the result is the same. Maybe they break through the union center for a few minutes longer, but that's it. They just didn't have the numbers and concentrating on the clump of trees or any other single point wasn't going to work this time. What you needed was a general who realized the Union artillery was intact and order a retreat. Stonewall Jackson was not that guy. The sacrifice of the First Minnesota on the previous day showed that even before Grant took over, there were plenty of Union officers who understood that the nature of war had changed, that high casualties were inevitable, and were willing to take them when necessary as opposed to running away. The whole theme of Gettysburg, in fact, was that the union lines _did not break_ when in past battles they usually did. When the peril was greater the previous days, they did not break. The fact is, it could have even been worse. Pickett's forces made it; the rest never got past that fence line. Had they done so, they'd have been cut to bits even more. Lee's whole army could have been like Pickett's.
Longstreet was a master of battlefield tactics and Lee didn't listen to him. Pickett never did forgive Lee for what he ordered Pickett's men to do on that day. Longstreet was right.
#1 NOT A LEE FAN BOY. I want to invoke this factor...and see what you think. Lee is desparate for yet ANOTHER DECICISVE VICTORY. Vicksburg is falling on its ass, diving the South in two. Not only is every CSA state West of the Mississippi out of the fight, but every day that goes, massive amounts more of men, and material, material that the South could only dream of...fresh brand new locomotives, Ironclads and Naval Ships that tighten themselves like a noose around the CSA's desperate need for imports...cotton asides uniforms, isn't a useful resource in wars. Cannons, mortars...comparitively, hordes of men. He is so desperate to pull off a massive victory...he does the unthinkable, a massed frontal assault. Because he incurred so many casualties first and second day, he needs a win. But hindsight 20/20...it was not possible, and he instead drove a stake into the heart of the CSA of any chance of winning. Even if he won the battle, the union had the reserves in the immediate area necessary to fuck his aggressive invasion of the North and he'd never have a wide open road to DC. A lot of Stonewall Jackson's success was against incompetent generals. When Meade became the man in charge of the Union, and eventually Grant/Sherman, the South's luck ran out, those guys were far better Union generals than the one's that preceeded them.
Most definitely! He was 100% right! He knew that the Union was STRONGEST, not weakest, at the center of their lines. There were extenuating circumstances that led to the defeat of the Confederate Forces at Gettysburg. It is reported that Gen. Lee may have actually been very sick, as if with the flu. He reportedly suffered from Diarrhea a good bit of the time that they were in Pennsylvania. Another report surfaced within the past few years that Gen. Lee may have actually suffered a slight Heart Attack at some point around that time. Even at that, the Confederate attacks that occurred on the first day of battle, though uncoordinated, nearly resulted in a Confederate victory. The second day didn't go quite as well, but still, the Confederates were holding strong. There was, though, one glaring problem the whole time:Gen. J. E. B. Stuart, one of Gen. Lee's main officers, which were supposed to be the Eyes and Ears of the Entire Confederate Army, was conspicuously absent, and didn't even show up until after the second day of the Gettysburg Campaign. He told Gen. Lee, upon meeting with him, that he had brought plenty of supplies for the Confederate Army, to which Gen. Lee responded:"Yes, and they are an impediment to me now"! All of the aforementioned factors led to one of the bloodiest defeats of the Entire Civil War, at least up to that time. The rest, as they say, is history.
You respect the traitors who betrayed their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution, fought to preserve slavery, and killed Americans in their hundreds of thousands? Cool. Cool.
2:00 “I have never let the enemy have control of the battlefield” Laughs in Malvern Hill. Thinking about it Lee made many of the same blunders at Gettysburg that he did at Malvern Hill
@@stealthycat6854 Lee was lucky to escape from Antietam[Sharpsburg]with what was left of his army. At Malvern Hill he had been in command less than a month, his aggressive nature wasn't matched by his subordinates[regiments and brigades attacked in a piecemeal fashion, poor if not non-existent command control].
@@davidmurray5399hot take, you could argue Stonewall Jackson was actually a better battlefield general than Lee. I mean the Shenandoah campaign is some of the most revolutionary shit in military history.
Lee might as well have said "General, I want you to take your men and move those hills about three miles to the left so we can have a clear pathway ahead of us."
They weren't 'weak' in the centre and strong on their flanks... they were strong all over. The CSA was damn lucky the Union didn't use pellet shots as Pickett's boys neared that centre! It was bloody enough as it was.
@JohnnyNation, idk, man. I think it would’ve been written off as luck. The south’s best chance at Gettysburg would’ve been if the leadership had been swapped from Lee to Longstreet.
We know from diaries and after action reports that Lee could not have been more mistaken. General Meade had seen the writing on the wall. He scavanged what he could from Seminary Ridge and the roundtops in anticipation of just that kind of move from Lee.
Lee counted on Meade to be cautious. He predicted a reinforcement of the flanks due to the previous assaults. Meade also probably predicted that Lee was going to do one of his daring tactical assaults. So he predicted right.
It's really interesting how this portrays each man's sense of the situation. Longstreet knows that from a logistical and practical standpoint in that specific moment, a Confederate attack such as Lee ordered would not be likely to succeed, and worse yet, likely would cause heavy casualties and losses for his army. Lee, on the other hand, is more aware of the bigger picture. The Confederates were already running out of weapons and supplies, while the Union with its much greater industrial complex was only going to grow exponentially stronger as more time passed, meaning that if the Confederates were to stand any chance at large, they had to make something happen now. In the end I guess it really goes to show the impossible position the Confederates found themselves in at this point.
Add to that the confederacy was losing in the west so he must have felt like he had to win a decisive battle on northern soil to have any hope of attracting european intervention and swinging a northern election against lincoln.
Longstreet reaction to Lee was like wtf are you thinking its a suicide charge your taking my men into. All the criticism the man got was really unfair this movie was indeed a redeeming of Longstreet's role into battle.
Best military tactician of his time. Everybody wants to give so much credit to Stonewall Jackson but he was just a wildly suicidal General who thought God was on his side.
A lot of the criticism Longstreet has gotten over the years as a general has everything to do with what he did after the war: He became a Republican and helped the Union try to enforce their victory in the south, and he committed the serious heresy against the Lost Cause ideology by suggesting that Robert E Lee wasn't a perfect general. As an example of how much Longstreet has been tarnished: Braxton Bragg got a major military installation named after him. James Longstreet had no monuments built prior to the 1990's.
Yes very true but you have to add General Hood and General Tremble with Longstreet in wanting to move the Rebs army to the right to outflank the Unions troops in Devils Den,Little Round Top and roll that flank up like a carpet. Also had Ewell taken the initiative on July 1 and let Gen Tremble take Culps Hill at the beginning. They could have moved some of Gen. Alexanders artillery onto Culps Hill and rained hell on Cemetary Ridge the next day. Gen Hood certainly would have had better success going around Devils Den and Big Round Top and outflanking the Union troops there. Had Hood been successful the Rebs would have had the high ground on both ends of the Union line. Also,and I know its not an if war,BUT had Gen Thomas Stonewall Jackson been at Gettysburg,he would not have hesitated to attack and take Culps Hill and the Round Tops for his artillery. One must be decisive and take the initiative in war or anything else. Despite the lame excuses from Lees generals,Jackson would have overidden their indecisiveness. Lessons from Chancellorsville at Hazel Grove were not learned by either side.
@@rebelbaron7003 Here is the problem, the 1st Corp - including what was left of the Iron Brigade was ON CULPS HILL! Stonewall would have gotten his men destroyed had he attacked, and Ewell would have suffered the same fate. Culp's Hill would not have fallen, the 1st Corp would force the rebels back easily.
Lee: We have cannons and an army, you will break General Meade and Federal Army: *gestures at the open ground, obstacles abound, stone wall, heights, cannon, fresh troops, and guns and ammunition* Lee:... General Meade and Federal Army:.... Lee: You will break. Arbriter: If only it were that easy
"I don't have anything else, but credits will do fine." "No, they won't!" "Credits WILL do fine." "No, they won't! What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving you're hand around like that? I'm Toydarian! Mind tricks don't work on me, only money! No money, no parts, no deal!"
A lot of good that does us now. We now have idiots walking around not knowing what sex they are and the millennial shit heads looking for their safe places. I could punch him in his face.
What’s a key factor to know how far ahead of time Longstreet was. US Grants best-man was Longstreet. Also nobody knows but Lee had a heart condition that greatly affected his health and would die only a handful of years after the war. In like 100+ heat he was probably struggling. It’s also important to note he sent his cavalry to basically die in a showdown with the Unions. Not a lot of people know about how there was a huge cavalry slaughter outside of Gettysburg.
He also didn’t sleep much he got very little sleep all if you look into it was insane. He also wouldn’t eat if his men didn’t and refused nicer food and sleeping arrangements. Things that made him get respect and understanding of his men but absolutely brutal for a man in his sixty’s
This move still blows my mind. No idea how Lee thought this would of been successful in the slightest. Day 2 was a tell of things to come if they still pursued the Union front.
He had broken the rules many times already in the war - splitting his forces up and attacking when faced with a superior enemy - and had won many times. So attacking across open ground up hill -- breaking another rule -- wasn't so obviously dumb anymore. Hell the entire Confederate war effort was breaking the rules, taking on a vastly superior enemy -- and thus far they were in their third consecutive year doing OK. Up to this point Confederate infantry was - man for man - superior in morale, ruggedness, and aggressiveness and usually beat Union units that outnumbered them. As for this individual battle, he thought that because of Day 1 and 2, that the flanks would be beefed up and the center was weak. He thought the Confederate artillery would soften up the center still more. (They had fancy new shells that were supposed to be extra effective.) And finally as he said, he felt they HAD to attack. The whole Pennsylvania campaign was an attempt to turn things around, to impose the South's will on the North for once, to give the Shenandoah farms a rest to be able to grow food, to put pressure on the Northern politicians and public to abandon support for the war, to encourage foreign powers to recognize the Confederacy. Fleeing the field would abandon all these things, and return to the North grinding on the South which in the long run probably only had one possible outcome. Win now or lose later.
@@nechiedavis1779Go to Gettysburg. It is really, really hard to see how Pickett's charge was going to actually work. It was a very large open space they had to cross. Artillery was invented for a battle like that. It looks, even to the rank amateur, like a suicide charge. Which is what happened. Sure, they got to the union line. Better than an amateur onlooker would expect. But the cost was obscenely high and the surviving force was, in fact, repulsed. Lee lovers want it to be something more than it was. What it was was an obvious mistake. One the south could not afford.
Berenger and Sheen are so good together in this movie. Berenger is one damn good military actor. He's just so good in this and Platoon. These are two of my favorite movies.
"General Lee, with all due honor and respect sir, but if marijuana hasn't been invented yet, let's invent it right now and a blame you smoking a lot of it for what's about to happen."
Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew and smoked marijuana. It's in their letters. Washington set out to breed a variety that would be "milder on t' throat and yet losing none of his potency."
One thing the movie does not convey is that Lee originally had a different plan. His initial plan for July 3 was to continue the attacks from the previous day. Ewell was to push on the Union right. The Confederates had captured the lower summit of Culps Hill on July 2, and Lee wanted them to take the rest of the hill and push on to Cemerery Hill and/or the Union's rear area. Meanwhile Longstreet would renew his attack on the Union left, pushing up the Emmitsburg Road. Both of the attacks would happen simultaneously to prevent Meade from shifting troops from one flank to the other. Unfortunately for Lee, Meade and the Federal army frustrated those plans. It was the Federals who attacked on Culps Hill at first light. Ewell's men were heavily engaged and driven back long before Longstreet could coordinate his attack. At the other end of the line, Longstreet pointed out to Lee that Meade had extended and reinforced the Union left. Federal troops had occupied the Round Tops, making an attack up the Emmitsburg Road impossible. Lee only developed the plan to attack the center around 10am, after it became clear the flanks weren't an option anymore. The decision to hit the center was more an act of desperation than anything else--all other possible avenues for attacking were off the table.
As a novice on the strategy and tactics of this battle it seems Longstreet is the wiser general. Seems more criticism is warranted on Lee than the general impression I get as a novice here. I have great admiration for Longstreet as portrayed here. Would like to read more from those who have studied this battle. Admire Lee for overall having to deal with being commanding General but looks like he dropped the ball big time here.
Hes so wise why did he leave it up to a 26 yr old artillery man to basically make the call? There were a ton of mistakes those 3 days and that lost the battle of gettysburg for them..
longstreet was good at defence he wasnt that great on offence he knew how to make an enemy pay if they attacked his positions. with the tactics they had in those days to attack you had to have at least 3 to 1 to take and hold a position Longstreet knew that.
@@miketaylor5212 Longstreet may not have been as flashy on the offensive as say Stonewall Jackson, but he was a very well rounded commander. His devasting attack on the Union flank at Second Manassas nearly destroyed the Army of Virginia, and it was Longstreet's attack at Chickamauga that shattered the federal lines.
Lee: "I have never yet left the enemy in command of the field." Longstreet: "Um, with all due respect sir, what about Battle of Malvern Hill? I seem to recall us leaving the Yanks in command of that." Lee: "I said I never left the enemy in command of the field... Longstreet: "And what about Antietam. I'm quite sure we ended up retreating from Maryland after that Lee: "GODDAMMIT JAMES, I SAID I NEVER LEFT THE ENEMY IN COMMAND OF THE FIELD!"
Lee's rationale was much more reasonable than the movie suggests. At this time, Grant is besieging Vicksburg, threatening to take control of the Mississippi and splitting the South in two. Half the reason why Lee started his second Northern invasion was to win a victory on Union soil to bolster political pressure against Lincoln, knowing that he couldn't hope to relieve Vicksburg. If he disengaged without that victory, then any hope of forcing the Union to come to terms would evaporate, and the South's defeat would be inevitable.
Yeah I get that, I was just pointing out the Lee's line in the movie about never leaving the enemy in command of the field was false. I'm sure the real life Lee would not have said that. Also, while Lee's choice to invade Pennsylvania was understandable, would it really have been able to accomplish anything tangible? Suppose he won the battle of Gettysburg, then what? He couldn't take Washington. That was the most heavily fortified city on earth at the time, and had a 40,000 man garrison. He could have taken a different major city, like Harrisburg, Philadelphia, or Baltimore, but what good would that do? Taking a major city wasn't going to win him the war. The Confederates had already lost several major cities, including New Orleans and nearly the entire state of Tennessee, and they were still going strong. Obviously taking one Union city wasn't going to do any better. Best he could do would probably just pillage the city for supplies and then leave before a new army came to surround him.
@@TheStapleGunKid To answer that, look at someone who pursued the same strategy and succeeded: North Vietnam's top general, Võ Nguyên Giáp. During the Vietnam War, the Tet Offensive was a strategic disaster; the United States had pushed Giap's forces back, and no significant gains were made by the North Vietnamese. The deathtoll was enormous, with North Vietnam suffering upwards from 100,000. And yet, the very fact that the offensive successfully took major cities in the first place was devastating for public morale. What was supposed to be an inevitable victory suddenly looked like a never-ending conflict that was costing the US as much as it was the North Vietnamese. That wasn't remotely true, but its the perception of that idea which matters. For Lincoln, who was in the midst of a reelection at this point in time, a military defeat would have been enormously damaging, especially if followed by the loss of a state capital. Such a loss would also have been devastating to the morale of the Union army at large, and the Army of the Potomac in particular. Losing major cities on your own soil absolutely effects your populace's willingness to continue the war effort; particularly when your country is the invading belligerent. Lee's rationale was sound, he just didn't have the manpower or men to achieve his operational objectives, and he was hampered by having to reorganize his army in the aftermath of Jackson's death. Ultimately, I think the largest reason why Lee lost was due to Jeb Stuart's absence. If Stuart was there to provide reconnaissance on where and how the Army of the Potomac was deployed, Longstreet's suggestion of disengaging and threatening Washington to force Meade into engaging Lee on his terms would have been feasible.
But like I said, the South lost many major cities and they still kept fighting. Even the loss of Atlanta, the South's most important center of industry, was still not enough to force the South to end the war right away. The idea that the Union would give up in response to one major city being lost is dubious. Remember during the revolution, America kept fighting after losing control of Philadelphia, Charleston, and the entire state of New York! In 1812, America kept fighting even after their capitol was captured and burned to the ground. Like I said, I understand what Lee was trying to accomplish. You can't win a war by fighting entirely on the defensive. At some point you have to take the fight to the enemy. But in this case I just think his long-term prospects for success were dubious, even if he had won the battle.
Clem Cornpone, My, my, aren't we a hate-filled, vulgar individual. You obviously haven't studied history in depth. You do not know what was going on in the minds and hearts of all the men who were engaged in this war. Were you there? Loyalties were much different in those days. First it was to your state... to the family who gave you life. Then it was to country. Plus, it was the politicians (who I might add, did not fight in the war) who started the war, so the career soldiers who had to go South had no choice in the matter. Could you raise your sword against your family? I would hardly call that being a traitor. But remember one thing, Clem Cornpone, our FOREFATHERS were classified as TRAITORS! Sometimes, we all have to do what we have to do at the moment... make a decision and live with the repercussions, Mr. High and Mighty!
@@c44LuWanda I agree that guy went a little overboard. Everyone who respects the military skill of the Southern generals and the will in which the average soldier fought is not a white supremacist. Having said that, the Union did have shitty generals and when Grant took command the war ended in a year and change. The war should've ended at Bull Run but General McDowell was so over his head it turned out to be a disaster. The Confederates didnt do so well either it's just the Union did even worse. As for giving your loyalty to your state first that's a bullshit cop out. I know the mentality was different then but that's no excuse. Treason is treason. As for raising a sword against your family, why would u have to do that? The Confederates attacked Fort Sumpter, then they shot and killed a Colonel who was taking down a Confederate flag at the Marshall House when American troops came in to keep the peace. Then they attacked American troops at the Battle Of Big Bethal. After that the North had no choice but to put an end to it and thats what Bull Run was but it failed. As for being called a traitor, that's in the eye of the beholder. Yes, we were traitors to England because we wanted a free nation, the hypocrisy was that in 1779, while the Revolution was still going on, England made a decree that any man on English soil was free. Then in 1820 ended slavery, meanwhile we still had slaves. That's a disgrace.
Longstreet (thinking); OMG, Bob, what has gotten into you all of a sudden? You allways were such a cautious commander, but now you seem to have been bitten by the mad dog of war.
But at that moment, Lee was convinced that if they could break the line, they would be able to defeat the Union forces in detail, and then turn to threaten the capitol in Washington with little opposition. In 19th Century warfare, if you took the enemy's capital, it usually meant capitulation. He wanted to end the slaughter and bloodshed on both sides. He did view his forces as unbeatable, mostly up to that point they had held the better ground, fought defensively. The situation was reversed and he did not acknowledge that. Later, the Southern Apologists would deify Lee and blame Longstreet for the failure. Well, that and Longstreet became a Republican after the war. He was scorned and vilified because of that.
It wasn't just the preceding victories and miraculous escapes that made Lee overestimate their abilities. He was genuinely sick of the killing. He was desperately sick of it.
The thing I admire so much about Longstreet is that he carried out his orders ANYWAY. I'm not sure I could have. But to have such complete dedication to the team to carry out your portion of the plan despite the fact that you think it will be disasterous is commendable. Maybe people would call it foolish, but I think it took character for Longstreet and Pickett to do what they did.
Longstreet yes. But Pickett? Wasn't he just a silly perfumed, hair-curled twit who thought in flowery Victorian folderol that the charge would succeed?
Is that admirable? He allowed thousands of men to die for Lees hubris. It was character to charge a losing battle? Almost a million ppl died for your stupid idea of honor.
In those days a sense of honor and respect was a very real thing. You made your position known, but once your commanding officer made his decision, you carried out your orders TO THE BEST YOUR TALENTS WOULD ALLOW. You didn’t sabotage the thing you tried your best even if you thought it was not the best decision. Today, I wouldn’t trust my subordinates as far as I could throw them.
Lee was hard headed that day, Longstreet was just talking plan scene. Longstreet became demon after the war because he disagreed with Lee and said so after the war. He also joined the Rep party which was no no in the south at that time.
Longstreet was way ahead of Lee when it came understanding the progression of warfare and the mathematics of it...Lee seemed still stuck in the Napoleonic age when it came to tactics.
That's what I see Lee as: The last great Napoleonic style warrior. He was a master at that kind of close formation, free wheeling, open country style of fight. However, he didn't understand what the changes in military technology meant to warfare.
Yet, Lee was at Malvern Hill when the Union held the high ground and chewed up his brigades; it isn't as if Lee didn't have any prior examples to draw upon.
@@canadaero Exactly. He was the master of Napoleonic warfare. I don't think he quite understood how warfare was shifting, and to be fair none of the others realized it either. At least at first. That's why so much of the war was a cluster f@#$. No one realized what was happening.
If only Lee had paid more attention to the Star Wars movies while at West Point, he would have learned from Obi-wan Kenobi that the high ground matters
Lee’s pride blinded him and he started to dream: ‘we will prevail’. He rejected the voice of reason.
3 года назад+1
Lee made the right call - listen to me - he knew the Confederacy was finished unless he could pull off a miraculous Victory - It didn't work out. But, he gambled when he knew he could still put some chips on the table.
@@ribonucleic lol the north never ended slavery throughout the entire war. In fact Lincolns family had them as well. The union couldn't get enough votes in the senate to pass the 13th amendment to end slavery.....it took the confederate congressmen rejoining before it was able to pass. Was the union congress keeping slavery around not the confederates. In fact it was the union who came up with the Corwin agreement, signed by President Lincoln that was offered up and would have made slavery legal FOREVER and couldn't be changed by the senate or courts. Pretending that war was about slavery is laughable
@@chrismurphy4021 It was still about slavery. However, concerning slavery it wasn't about emancipation; don't confuse the two. Emancipation was a mid-war political maneuver that was a result of war, not the cause of it.
@@chrismurphy4021 there were no confederate congressmen there were a bunch of freed black congressmen and that is why it passed 2 years after the war while west virginia maryland and delaware still held their slaves.
Wasn't the original plan for Stuart to ride around Culp's Hill and attack the Union center from behind? Something about a guy named Custer and his 7th Michigan Calvary stopping him?
Meade knew Lee. He knew his hubris. Lee would not retreat so Meade used this against him. He turned Lee's strength into his weakness - brilliant. Longstreet was talking about a tactical retreat and was 50 -65 years ahead of Lee in tactics, particularly when on foreign ground. No sir, If Longstreet had his way - things would have been very different, not just in July of 1863, but right now as well. Longstreet was too smart for Lee. And if Stonewall were there - he would have come up with something that no one yet has thought of.
If Stonewall was there the battle would have been over with the first day because he would have secured the high ground that Lee commanded to take if "practical".. Stonewall could read Lee's language and would have made it practical.
LOL No just no. A full retreat was the best course of action. Longstreet's suggestion of redeployment was completely asinine and would have gotten the lot of them captured or killed. Meade didn't charge into Lee's army when he held the better ground he sure as wouldn't have attacked it from an inferior position. No Meade would have just planted himself between Lee's new position and DC, dug in and waited for reinforcements to flank Lee and it would be game over right there. Wouldn't even need to assault the position in two weeks Lee's army would be out of provisions.
No, things wouldn't be different today. The Confederates were going to be defeated, one way or another, regardless of whether they won at Gettysburg. It was a matter of time...
@@ruthlesshack1279 I beg to differ. A Confederate win at Gettysburg might have had the North pushing for peace, and it may have had England backing the South. As you know, The South did not have to vanquish the North. They needed to prolong the war just long enough. All things being equal, of course the North would win. A northern victory required the destruction of the South. A Southern win did not require the same.
The whole confederacy was of that opinion. That’s why they took on the more powerful north in and he first place. They knew they couldn’t win tactically. They sought to win politically and it the court of public opinion. The south sought to make the war so costly for the north in both men and materials that northern public opinion would turn against pursuing the war. This tactic worked for the North Vietnamese 100 years later.
Something few people ever mention is the political ramifications for retreating. Lee could not retreat knowing the Virginians had not been in the battle yet. It would appear that Lee protected the men from his own state and spared them from that battle. I’m sure this was on his mind when deciding what to do. He could not fight 2 days, lose thousands of men, and March away without throwing the Virginians into battle
Longstreet: :States basic tactical observations that should warrant extreme caution against any attack whatsoever: Lee: "They will break in the center." :loud ominous music starts playing: Longstreet: "What?" Lee: "I said they will break in the center, Sir." Longstreet: "No I heard that part, it was stupid. I was talking about the music of impending doom that kicked in right after you made that obviously ridiculous statement."
I would not say it arrogance at all. That's a curious thing to say. Lee always knew that his army was vastly outnumbered and he saw a real chance to use military action as a lever to force political victory. He was wrong at Gettysburg, but I can't classify it as arrogance. Call it over-confidence and I may agree, but not arrogance.
Lee had been experiencing angina and probably figured he hadn't long to live, regardless of that, the likelihood of his dying dangling at the end of rope as the result of a defeat had to cross his mind as the war wound down. As it turned out he and Davis both died in their own beds and Lincoln was subsequently murdered after Appomattox as a target of a ''lost cause'' conspiracy.
Lee was offered the Command of the Union army before he defected, so you know he was a trusted tactician. He also benefited from the tactics of Longstreet, Jackson and Stuart but by the time Gettysburg rolled around, (1.) Longstreet's corp was just coming into battle (last), (2.) Ewell replaced Jackson after Jacksons death before the engagement at Gettysburg and was incredibly cautious allowing the Union to entrench Culps Hill, disregarding the scouting of his men to press the attack before the Unions entrenchment. (3.) Stuart had gone to far up north prior to the engagement of Gettysburg and this would cost Lee his "eyes", (4.) Lee disregarding Longstreet in this moment and his inability to recognize this "Fredericksburg" style scenario of attacking across open ground surrounded by cannon on the high ground and men behind a stonewall in the center. Gettysburg was an absolute blunder for Lee.
Gettysburg was the price the South paid for Robert E. Lee. Every great military strategist has made at least one major mistake. Pickett's Charge was Lee's.
“General Longstreet, I want you to ride with forceful effect and use your crazy beard to pierce the federal lines” Longstreet: “Now THAT is a plan that makes more sense than that Pickett thing you said”.
I heard the same thing. Plus, look at all the stupidity of Generals under his command that wouldn't listen to him...and yet, the Confederates nearly won the Gettysburg Campaign on the first day of battle! There were problems, though, what with attacks not being properly coordinated, and worse yet, no Gen. Stuart, who hadn't been around the Confederate Army for at least a week! He was in Carlisle, PA, getting supplies for the Confederate Army, and because of his absence, the whole Confederate Army came very close to being spotted! Harrison, a spy that worked for Gen. Longstreet, got word to him just in time!
Sad when a great Gral like Longstreet gets vilified, and Lee who sent his men to be slaughtered gets a Gods treatment. If he would have listened to the advice, that battle would not have been the end of the South, but, that’s just history, a sad one, but history after all. Lots of good men lost their life from both sides for what?? Walked that field as a tourist, what a exhilarating experience. 🥺
@@manilajohn0182 .... Actually Grant was right where he needed to be Winning the battle of Vicksburg. Which was much more important strategically Few people seem to understand this
@@bclaverenz1 I agree with you regarding both Grant and Vicksburg. As far as Jackson's concerned, there's no telling what he would have done. There's Jackson of the Valley who generally befuddled the opposition, and then there's Jackson of the Seven Days who completely failed Lee.
'They are well entrenched up there; they aim to fight! They have good artillery and plenty of it!' Longstreet is being entirely realistic about his enemy's morale, position, and material strength, all things a good combat commander must keep in mind. Lee, on the other hand, is working from sentimentality- honour in the face of the enemy somehow makes up for a weakened army and a weaker position. It's a lovely and poetic idea, but bad military strategy...
thank god for union commander Buford who not only scouted the high ground positions that later would break the confederate advances but also delayed the rebel vanguard long enough for the unions forces to entrench those hills and high elevations which helped to win the day.
In theory I could see where Lee was coming from with his battle plans. The flanks of the Union army had been attacked for most of the afternoon and evening on July 2nd and Lee's thinking was they'd reinforce the flanks anticipating Lee would again attack the flanks and thus leaving the center vulnerable. Lee's wishful thinking put in action unfortunately got thousands killed.
Lee himself saw the butchery at Fredricksburg. He saw valiant waves of Union soldiers braving the fire with their shoulders shrugged as though shot and cannister were a winter storm...and he saw them butchered until the field was carpeted with their dead and dying bodies. Yet he learned nothing and sent his own men into the very same meat grinder.
Lee: "I have never yet left the enemy in command of the field". "Cough, Antietam, Cough." Lee retreated and left Sharpsburg to McClellan the year before. McClellan was incompetent as always, but Lee did indeed yield the field. Either Lee lied, the screenwriter lied, or Killer Angels(the book the move is based on) lied.
That face Longstreet has kills me....like he wants to tell Lee...."put that crack pipe down...I'm not splittin no Federal lines from here across all that open land".
A good officer brings solutions, not more problems. He knew and used great logic to make his point and a counter offer. Little did he know Lee had already made his mind and did what every good soldier does, follow orders to the best of his ability.
@Mr Pate It is a military axiom that you do not reinforce defeat. If Longstreet had thrown his 15,000 "reinforcements" (that would be the remnants of Hood and McLaws Divisions, shot to rags and with most of their officers dead or captured) he would have been magnifying the loss of the Charge...and depriving the ANV of the last possible source of reserves they possessed...leaving the army open to the Union counterattack mentioned later in the film, which did not take place. Longstreet was correct...Lee's orders fed three divisions into a meat grinder. And that meat grinder was still in place and entrenched. The "reinforcements" of which you speak would have covered the same ground at Pickett, totally devoid of any artillery support and still flanked and outgunned by the Union troops holding the ridge.
donwild50 as a retired Army Officer, graduate of both The U.S. Army War College, and the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, all I can say about your post is, “ on target, fire for effect!”.
@SouthernDude82 .... the attack on the Federal center known to history as Pickett’s Charge, was doomed from its inception, impossible in its execution, and disastrous in its results. Your assertion that the remnants of Hood’s and McClaw’s Divisions plus additional units from AP Hill’s Corps would have penetrated the Union Center is ridiculous. Hood’s and McClaw’s Divisions after day two were completely combat ineffective, and the remaining division of Hill’s Corps was battered on Day 1 in the initial fight for Seminary Ridge. Even if a follow up assault wave close on the heels of the initial attack were successful, The Army of the Potomac, had substantial uncommitted reinforcements that could be rushed along interior lines to seal the breakthrough. The South’s best chance at Gettysburg was on day two. If Longstreet had Pickett’s Division available the Federal left flank would have caved in, but Pickett was still miles away. Your verdict that Longstreet’s actions during the charge were treasonable is a bit harsh. In all my reading I’ve not heard it before. Still, I enjoyed your post thank you.
@SouthernDude82 so did the federals at the rear
Tom Beringer's best role hands down. He did a superb job of capturing Longstreet's frustration, reluctance, and heartbreak.
I like Berenger a lot in his many roles but in Gettysburg, I thought in some of his lines, his delivery was sometimes kind of stilted or something. The spacing of spoken words with very specific over pronunciations. I would blame the Director of the movie, Ronald Maxwell for that. Berenger would probably delivered his lines more realistically if he had it his way.
I like him in the substitute and major league as well
His best told IMO was Barnes in Platoon. He’s never topped that performance even though he’s fantastic in this movie too…
I really hope they make that Last Full Measure movie with Tom Berenger reprising his role definitely my favorite of his. He act's just like Longstreet did in the book and in real life.
That’s laughable and untrue. Barnes wins by a landslide
Lee’s face every time Longstreet talks is priceless
In these scenes, General Lee has such a "Superior" way and look about him, that, although he doesn't want to, General Longstreet knows that tryin' to talk to General Lee at this point, would be like talking to a wall! He tries and tries to, in a gentle way, of course, dissuade General Lee from making that kind of March, straight into the very jaws of the Union Army, but... General Lee wasn't listening.
Afterwards, though, General Lee wished that he'd listened to General Longstreet...but by then, it was far too late.
@@ronaldshank7589 I don’t get it though wasn’t Longstreet a general as well should they all have some type of say so I mean a general is a high ranking officer
@@jfontanez1838 Lee was a level up. The Confederate Army at Gettysburg had Lee in main command, with several lesser generals serving under him, who in turn had even lesser generals under them.
@@jfontanez1838 Army is never a democracy.
@@jfontanez1838the chain of command is traditionally like a pyramid. Lee is the Commander of the entire army of northern Virginia. Underneath him he would have 3-5 subordinate generals (corps commanders). Those 3-5 corps commanders would have 2-5 generals under them (division commanders). Those 2-5 division commanders would have 2-5 generals who were brigade commanders(sometimes full colonels). Beneath the brigade commanders you would have regiment commanders (full colonels). Beneath the regiment commanders you would usually have battalion commanders, and beneath these you would have company commanders.
Lee: they will break in the center
*spooky music plays*
Longstreet: sir with your permision i will have to ask why do i hear boss music?
Should have called it off the minute they heard that music.
Lee could have caused that music to play just by saying the word "Pickett". Sorta like "Blucher" from Young Frankenstein.
DAMNATION COME!!
You can just feel Longstreet wanting to say have you lost your mind sir.
"I'm gonna need you to feed your arm into this woodchipper."
"Well, uh, what?"
"The rounded nubs in the middle there, it is weakest. Your arm will break through there."
General Longstreet, I'm going to need you to stick your tongue into this light socket...
you forgot, " ill have men throw sticks into the wood-chipper to soften them up. and when you stick you arm into it. it will break. i have confidence in your arm." music intensifies.
Heckin, this comment is brilliant. I just thought i’d tell you. ☺️ i’m still laughing. Thank you.
🤣😂
The Union performed so poorly in the past that Lee thought this long shot was a chance of winning because the Union generals sucked. It is called hubris.
Also he didn't take into account how much harder the Union troops would fight when defending their own home soil.
Yep...and Gen. Lee's "Hubris" went and got him defeated as never before!
And then grant and Sherman brought hell
Everything was reversed from prior battles, the Confederates on the offensive/invading, the Union with the high ground, the Confederates spread out while the Union position was tighter, allowing better communication and easier to move reserves in and out and better command and control.
Seemed like the Union commanding generals got to do what they wanted and perhaps Meade let them.
I love how Longstreet gives Lee this "Have you lost your mind?" look when Lee tells him to split the line 😆 And then starts laughing when explaining what will happen if he advances all of his men 😆
I always though Tom Berringer deserved an Oscar nod for that scene.
Lol Longstreet has that look on his face like oh split the Federal line is that all? Any infantry officer worth their salt could take one look at that field they had to cross and realize it was folly.
@@rc59191 Think about this, too:In wanting a swift end to the war, because of doing what he did (Pickett's Charge), by that one massive blunder, he started the beginning of the end of the Civil War. As for the 15,000 Men that participated in that charge, at least half of them never came back. That put a serious dent in the number of available fighting Men...plus, if you look at the number of Men he had already lost before then, that makes me wonder:How many Men did General Lee even have, when they retreated from Gettysburg, after July 3, 1863?
why did Lee insist on such a folly? I don't get it.
He gives Lee this look like "Are you high old man?" 😂
Lee: They are weak in the centre.
Longstreet: Yes but they still have cannons.........
Reminds me the scene in a bridge too far where the Intel officer tried to brief the British general about tanks in arhnem
Gen. Longstreet was looking at Gen. Lee as if Gen. Lee was completely crazy! Gen. Longstreet turned out to be right, by the end of the day. Somewhere between 12,000-15,000 Confederate Soldiers went across that field, in what was known as Pickett's Charge, and at least 50% were killed, wounded, captured, or missing. As the remnants of the Confederates came back from that horrible fight, Gen. Lee, not knowing how many men were left, told Gen. Pickett:"Gen. Pickett, re-form your division". Then, Gen. Lee got hit with the worst shock of his life when Gen. Pickett looked straight at him and said:"Gen. Lee, I have no division left"! Gen. Pickett never forgave Gen. Lee for that disaster, and brooded on the loss until his dying day. He told someone:"That old man had my division slaughtered"!
@@ronaldshank7589: Just 50% casualties? I thought Pickett lost two-thirds of his entire division.
@@carltomacruz9138 That was the casualty percentage on the day before. I believe Longstreet's men were engaged at Devils Den, and they lost about 50% of their number. A major problem by July 3rd was Lee had almost no fresh troops left. Both Longstreet and Ewell were in favor of packing up and heading out. Their idea was find a better spot and engage the federal army there. Lee however wanted to end the affair that day. So they sent George Pickett's men up that hill, and the rest is history.
@Super Slider The battle was lost when Lee failed to finish off the 1st and 11th Corps and secure the high ground. The Yankees had the heights, Stuart was nowhere to be found, A.P. Hill's command was completely wrecked and combat ineffective, and there were 5 more enemy Corps in the vicinity that nobody had eyes on. Game over at that point.
Berengers Longstreet speaking is poetry to me!
He wanted to come back for Gods & Generals too. As did Sheen. Maybe for the best since G&G was understandably criticized and stigmatized for leaning too much toward the Confederate side, and was a slow unfocused mess as well
Seems he made Longstreet a timeless every-man type character. I feel like I could see his version of Longstreet running errands at AutoZone or Home Depo just as easily as commanding troops in the Civil War....
@@paulzeigler1075 That's because he was pragmatic and down to earth in an era drenched with flowery Victorian rhetoric, head-in-the-clouds abstraction, and maudlin sentimentality.
@@IrishCarney Yes IrishCarney. I saw some of it and did not enjoy it. Great moving opening theme though.
I'd give anything to see him in a movie about Longstreet when he went to fight in the West. This was his best role in my opinion he brought the character to life.
"Sir, uh ... ah-em ..." Polite subordinate speak for "You want me to do WHAT?"
“With all due respect, sir…”
Longsreet: * Counts every up to date military tactical sensibility *
Lee: DEUS VULT!
That's what happens when you've had too many victories, you start to underestimate your enemy.
Or overestimate your own forces. More that than the other, but some of both.
actually, it has more to do with Lee really wanting to end the war with this battle. He knew that if that battle was lost, or even just inconclusive, there was no way the south could mount an another offensive. He focused too much on the end result.
You start to believe in your own myth of invincibility.
Lee was usually frustrated with his victories, complaining in letters back home that they were never able to catch and destroy the Union army.
He says it in this scene "guns by the thousands and Richmond has nothing more to send us" Lee HAD to win a decisive battle or there would be no stopping the Norths manpower and industrial advantage.
Doesn't Longstreet say in the movie "we redeploy and march towards Washington. Its their capital, and they will have to give chase and fight us and we can do so on a field of our choosing". I listened to that and it made perfect sense
he says that day 1
"With old man Abe (Abraham Lincoln) on their back they will have to give chase" he said but agreed it made perfect sense.
Not necessarily. The Confederate army already had a tenuous supply situation, and going for Washington would make that situation worse. Plus, Washington was well fortified, and Meade could probably call up reinforcements to the capital via the rail network. Washington was a hard target, one that would be tough for a numerically superior force to take. Lee's smaller army would have been in an extremely dangerous position, with very little chance of victory.
@@tesnacloud The idea was to move towards Washington and provoke a major battle (like gettysburg) but on ground the Confederate choose. Beating a large portion of the Union Army which could have brought about a treaty or a surrender(unlikely) to end the war. This is my knowledge, I might be wrong with some points, I'm not even American.
@@rangergerald1095 The Union had to deal with the fact that Washington was on the front lines for two years now, and had built its defenses to an impressive standard. Lincoln wanted it well defended so that the Army of the Potomac could range further afield without worrying about the capital. The Confederates knew this, and marched around Washington, specifically not striking at it because of its powerful fortifications. Had they tried, the Union general in charge would have had some time before he needed to relieve Washington, and would therefore not offer the Confederates the favorable battle they were looking for
If you've been to Gettysburg, you can appreciate just how Pickett's men had to go, across open ground. When you stand where the Confederacy's line was, it gives you the chills ... it's just such a long way, uphill.
I've stood on that spot more than once and wondered how those guys must have felt. They had to know it was suicide. I will never understand how Lee couldn't see that it was going to cost him a lot of men that he couldn't afford to lose.
@@EnemyAce88 You've got to remember the artillery. They were counting on the Confederate artillery to pound the Union center and soften it up.
It's what I'd call a mile-long march, straight into the jaws of death!
@@IrishCarney I was just telling somebody else, that a lot of the Artillery Barrage ended up being too high. It landed in back of the Union lines. That's the one thing, that helped to decide this battle. Because of the cannon shot landing in back of the Union lines, their lines, the Union Forces. The Union lines, being intact as they were after the Artillery Barrage, beat the Confederates. No questions asked!
Driving around Gettysburg on a hot July day is tiring. The idea of walking over fences into cannon and rifle fire carrying weapons and ammo is staggering. How Lee every thought this could work is beyond me. The reasoning that the right is strong and the left is strong so the center must be weak simply doesn't apply when you have the industrial might and the manpower of the north.
Longstreet’s probably thinking:
“Sir...you were present at Fredericksburg as I was, correct?...”
I've been to Longstreet's monument at Gettysburg. It's a very humbling sight, considering that not far away from where he was, the 1st Texas Brigade was engaged heavily for Devil's Den on Day 2 of the battle. As a born and raised Texan with ancestors who fought at both the Battle of San Jacinto for the independence of Texas in 1836, the Battle of Devil's Den at Gettysburg in July 1863, and the Second Battle of Sabine Pass in September 1863 for the Confederacy it was a very moving experience for me. He survived the war and settled in Arkansas on land that my family still owns to this day.
I've been to that monument also. It is not well done. He looks too large for the horse.
What I appreciate is how well this scene was acted. Berenger's Longstreet is talking shop. One professional to another, he is explaining why this thing will not work from a pure engineering perspective. He delivers his lines accordingly.
Sheen's Lee is thinking politically and even a little mystically. He is slightly impatient with Longstreet: "yes, I am a professional, a trained engineer in fact. I have considered all these points. But unlike you, I have insight into the hearts of men. The Union troops will break. This is our last, best hope. We have no really good option. We are outmanned, outgunned and outspent. We have no choice but to be better. They will, in the final analysis, lack the will to resist us. The fact that I can see that and you can't simply underscores why I am commanding the Army and you are commanding your corps. Do your job".
Hubris? I'm not sure I would use that word. When they lost, Lee took the blame, had they won, he would have given the glory to God. This is a General who is relying too heavily on non-quantitative factors. If he's right, he's a genius.
He wasn't right here. He was on a few other occasions, as we know. Even Homer nods.
Nicely put. I think Lee also underestimated his opposite number. Say what you want about Meade but he was much more talented than McClellan, Hooker and definitely Burnside. Lee was used to dealing with buffoons commanding the Union forces. Meade wasn’t the clown Lee was expecting and it cost him.
Lee pretty much figured that he was unlikely to lead a large group of battle hardened soldiers out of Virginia again. He knew Vicksburg was about to fall and that the situation in the West was worse than people in Richmond generally knew. So in a sense you can't blame him for making a long shot gamble here, but at the same time, there will always be the "what if?"...what if he had, much like Grant did in the Overland campaign, he had pulled his army out and maneuvered around Meade toward Philadelphia or Baltimore? Stuart was with him again and could have provided enough of a screen that Meade would be uncertain where Lee might turn up.
@@hhale good points all. It all comes back to: if at first you don't secede. There were no good choices on an NPV basis. You either gave up too much territory to avoid casualties (Johnston) or took too many casualties to dispute territory (Lee). You would have had to time the market. Lee's strategy was Namath down 3 touchdowns in the 4th quarter. Like Namath, he made losing interesting.
Lee had his moments of singular brilliance. His main flaw was not hubris, at least not entirely. His main flaw was that he did not have the vision to conceptualize what was going on with other Confederate commanders in other theaters of the war.
In contrast, Lee is thinking like a Romantic. Feeling and intuition, over reason. Stark contrast between the two.
Earlier in the film, Sam Elliot as General John Buford had a conversation with one of his subordinates about how he could actually envision the Confederate Army occupying the heights and the Union Army having to attack uphill over a long distance while under intense fire. "We will charge valiantly. And be butchered valiantly. Afterwards men in tall hats and gold watch fobs will thump their chests and say what a brave charge it was." He talked about how terrible it was to be ordered to make an ill considered attack and be unable to stop it. Worse, having to take part and help it fail. Buford was working up the nerve to deploy his heavily outnumbered cavalry to try to block the ANV from taking the high ground in hopes that federal reinforcements would come in time. This happened. So now it is the Union Army behind fat rocks on the high ground and the Confederate Army must make the impossible attack. Longstreet is suffering the very fate described by his enemy two days prior. He knows the attack will fail but he can't stop it. Worse, he has to give the order.
There are historians who question how pessimistic Longstreet says he was before the battle.
His conduct that day interests me a lot. Not quite sure what to make of it myself.
And, here's the thing, how can you manoeuvre past Meade without a cavalry screen?
Good point. Never put those two scenes together in my mind. But you’re absolutely right
It is very possible that the death of Jackson combined with the heroic actions of Buford saved the day.
The South would spend the third day attacking ground they controlled on the first day. Lee's choice of the word: "practicable" when giving the order to take the high ground cost the south the battle.
@@justinp5661 Put Stonewall Jackson in charge of Pickett's forces and the result is the same. Maybe they break through the union center for a few minutes longer, but that's it. They just didn't have the numbers and concentrating on the clump of trees or any other single point wasn't going to work this time. What you needed was a general who realized the Union artillery was intact and order a retreat. Stonewall Jackson was not that guy.
The sacrifice of the First Minnesota on the previous day showed that even before Grant took over, there were plenty of Union officers who understood that the nature of war had changed, that high casualties were inevitable, and were willing to take them when necessary as opposed to running away.
The whole theme of Gettysburg, in fact, was that the union lines _did not break_ when in past battles they usually did. When the peril was greater the previous days, they did not break.
The fact is, it could have even been worse. Pickett's forces made it; the rest never got past that fence line. Had they done so, they'd have been cut to bits even more. Lee's whole army could have been like Pickett's.
Longstreet was a master of battlefield tactics and Lee didn't listen to him. Pickett never did forgive Lee for what he ordered Pickett's men to do on that day. Longstreet was right.
#1 NOT A LEE FAN BOY. I want to invoke this factor...and see what you think.
Lee is desparate for yet ANOTHER DECICISVE VICTORY. Vicksburg is falling on its ass, diving the South in two. Not only is every CSA state West of the Mississippi out of the fight, but every day that goes, massive amounts more of men, and material, material that the South could only dream of...fresh brand new locomotives, Ironclads and Naval Ships that tighten themselves like a noose around the CSA's desperate need for imports...cotton asides uniforms, isn't a useful resource in wars. Cannons, mortars...comparitively, hordes of men.
He is so desperate to pull off a massive victory...he does the unthinkable, a massed frontal assault. Because he incurred so many casualties first and second day, he needs a win.
But hindsight 20/20...it was not possible, and he instead drove a stake into the heart of the CSA of any chance of winning. Even if he won the battle, the union had the reserves in the immediate area necessary to fuck his aggressive invasion of the North and he'd never have a wide open road to DC.
A lot of Stonewall Jackson's success was against incompetent generals. When Meade became the man in charge of the Union, and eventually Grant/Sherman, the South's luck ran out, those guys were far better Union generals than the one's that preceeded them.
Most definitely! He was 100% right! He knew that the Union was STRONGEST, not weakest, at the center of their lines. There were extenuating circumstances that led to the defeat of the Confederate Forces at Gettysburg. It is reported that Gen. Lee may have actually been very sick, as if with the flu. He reportedly suffered from Diarrhea a good bit of the time that they were in Pennsylvania. Another report surfaced within the past few years that Gen. Lee may have actually suffered a slight Heart Attack at some point around that time. Even at that, the Confederate attacks that occurred on the first day of battle, though uncoordinated, nearly resulted in a Confederate victory. The second day didn't go quite as well, but still, the Confederates were holding strong. There was, though, one glaring problem the whole time:Gen. J. E. B. Stuart, one of Gen. Lee's main officers, which were supposed to be the Eyes and Ears of the Entire Confederate Army, was conspicuously absent, and didn't even show up until after the second day of the Gettysburg Campaign. He told Gen. Lee, upon meeting with him, that he had brought plenty of supplies for the Confederate Army, to which Gen. Lee responded:"Yes, and they are an impediment to me now"! All of the aforementioned factors led to one of the bloodiest defeats of the Entire Civil War, at least up to that time. The rest, as they say, is history.
@@BlueJDMMR2 I read, and fully understand and respect your comments, Sir. You're right:The South really had no chance to win the Civil War.
@@ronaldshank7589 No, they had a chance. The problem is, they had to do it via defense. Not offense. That was the problem.
@@SoulKiller7Eternal I have to differ with you about that, but, as the old saying goes:"To each, his own".
Meade: "I have the high ground"
Lee: "You underestimate my power"
William Rumley dont try it
High Ground!
You were the Chosen One! It was said you were to lead the Union Army! Not fight it!
@@TheMrPeteChannel LOL!! That's good!
@@MrJoebrooklyn1969 "Bring balance to the country! Not leave it further divided!"
Have always loved learning about the civil war! Much respect for both sides and what they had to endure.
You respect the traitors who betrayed their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution, fought to preserve slavery, and killed Americans in their hundreds of thousands?
Cool. Cool.
2:00 “I have never let the enemy have control of the battlefield”
Laughs in Malvern Hill. Thinking about it Lee made many of the same blunders at Gettysburg that he did at Malvern Hill
I guess he forgot about Antietam as well..
@@stealthycat6854 Lee was lucky to escape from Antietam[Sharpsburg]with what was left of his army. At Malvern Hill he had been in command less than a month, his aggressive nature wasn't matched by his subordinates[regiments and brigades attacked in a piecemeal fashion, poor if not non-existent command control].
@@davidmurray5399hot take, you could argue Stonewall Jackson was actually a better battlefield general than Lee. I mean the Shenandoah campaign is some of the most revolutionary shit in military history.
Then of course there was Grant at Cold Harbor...
@@Tennischamp450
Yeah but he would have banzi charged his army more times then even Lee did if you put him in charge 😊
Lee might as well have said "General, I want you to take your men and move those hills about three miles to the left so we can have a clear pathway ahead of us."
Lee: “We will prevail.” [rides off]
Music: “They will not prevail.”
They weren't 'weak' in the centre and strong on their flanks... they were strong all over. The CSA was damn lucky the Union didn't use pellet shots as Pickett's boys neared that centre! It was bloody enough as it was.
Lee ignored the ghost of Napolean saying, "Remember the Guard at Waterloo."
To be fair the Prussians weren't coming out of the woods here.
No but the British guards division was hiding in the wheat field waiting for the old guard💂🏼♂️💂🏽♀️
You know Longstreet wanted to Say ‘ Damn it old man you going get this army destroyed.
“Pickett’s charge was the price the Confederacy paid for having RE Lee in command”. - Shelby Foote
And if successful it would have been known as military genius !!!
@JohnnyNation, idk, man. I think it would’ve been written off as luck. The south’s best chance at Gettysburg would’ve been if the leadership had been swapped from Lee to Longstreet.
Tom Beringer...One of our best American military character actors ever...He also did a superb job in the military classic...Platoon...
Sniper as well.
@@GinaSanchez_ Don't forget the movie..."The Substitute"...
We know from diaries and after action reports that Lee could not have been more mistaken. General Meade had seen the writing on the wall. He scavanged what he could from Seminary Ridge and the roundtops in anticipation of just that kind of move from Lee.
It is kind of easy to predict. Day one try one side. Day two, try the other. What else is there to do on day three but try the center?
@@IrishCarney it's not rocket science is it
@@IrishCarney You are very incorrect. I suggest you study some more.
Lee counted on Meade to be cautious. He predicted a reinforcement of the flanks due to the previous assaults.
Meade also probably predicted that Lee was going to do one of his daring tactical assaults. So he predicted right.
Longstreet would be good at CinemaSins
Yeah, he should be calling out a "ding!" after every clearly wrong thing Lee says.
It's really interesting how this portrays each man's sense of the situation. Longstreet knows that from a logistical and practical standpoint in that specific moment, a Confederate attack such as Lee ordered would not be likely to succeed, and worse yet, likely would cause heavy casualties and losses for his army. Lee, on the other hand, is more aware of the bigger picture. The Confederates were already running out of weapons and supplies, while the Union with its much greater industrial complex was only going to grow exponentially stronger as more time passed, meaning that if the Confederates were to stand any chance at large, they had to make something happen now. In the end I guess it really goes to show the impossible position the Confederates found themselves in at this point.
Seems like starting a war to keep people enslaved was a bad move from the get go.
Add to that the confederacy was losing in the west so he must have felt like he had to win a decisive battle on northern soil to have any hope of attracting european intervention and swinging a northern election against lincoln.
Longstreet reaction to Lee was like wtf are you thinking its a suicide charge your taking my men into. All the criticism the man got was really unfair this movie was indeed a redeeming of Longstreet's role into battle.
Best military tactician of his time. Everybody wants to give so much credit to Stonewall Jackson but he was just a wildly suicidal General who thought God was on his side.
A lot of the criticism Longstreet has gotten over the years as a general has everything to do with what he did after the war: He became a Republican and helped the Union try to enforce their victory in the south, and he committed the serious heresy against the Lost Cause ideology by suggesting that Robert E Lee wasn't a perfect general.
As an example of how much Longstreet has been tarnished: Braxton Bragg got a major military installation named after him. James Longstreet had no monuments built prior to the 1990's.
Yes very true but you have to add General Hood and General Tremble with Longstreet in wanting to move the Rebs army to the right to outflank the Unions troops in Devils Den,Little Round Top and roll that flank up like a carpet.
Also had Ewell taken the initiative on July 1 and let Gen Tremble take Culps Hill at the beginning.
They could have moved some of Gen. Alexanders artillery onto Culps Hill and rained hell on Cemetary Ridge the next day.
Gen Hood certainly would have had better success going around Devils Den and Big Round Top and outflanking the Union troops there.
Had Hood been successful the Rebs would have had the high ground on both ends of the Union line.
Also,and I know its not an if war,BUT had Gen Thomas Stonewall Jackson been at Gettysburg,he would not have
hesitated to attack and take Culps Hill and the Round Tops for his artillery.
One must be decisive and take the initiative in war or anything else.
Despite the lame excuses from Lees generals,Jackson would have overidden their indecisiveness.
Lessons from Chancellorsville at Hazel Grove were not learned by either side.
@@rebelbaron7003 Here is the problem, the 1st Corp - including what was left of the Iron Brigade was ON CULPS HILL! Stonewall would have gotten his men destroyed had he attacked, and Ewell would have suffered the same fate.
Culp's Hill would not have fallen, the 1st Corp would force the rebels back easily.
@@SoulKiller7Eternal except they were not there intially. had Ewell acted as ordered rthey would of had it
Lee: We have cannons and an army, you will break
General Meade and Federal Army: *gestures at the open ground, obstacles abound, stone wall, heights, cannon, fresh troops, and guns and ammunition*
Lee:...
General Meade and Federal Army:....
Lee: You will break.
Arbriter: If only it were that easy
"FREDERICKSBURG! FREDERICKSBURG! FREDERICKSBURG!..."
"I don't have anything else, but credits will do fine."
"No, they won't!"
"Credits WILL do fine."
"No, they won't! What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving you're hand around like that? I'm Toydarian! Mind tricks don't work on me, only money! No money, no parts, no deal!"
To his credit, Lee did assume full responsibility for the defeat.
With some help from his inept calvary commander.
In late 2019, that's a stunning trait, indeed.
A lot of good that does us now. We now have idiots walking around not knowing what sex they are and the millennial shit heads looking for their safe places. I could punch him in his face.
@Stephen Pope So, you're transphobic. So what?
@@Ares99999 No I just know there are two sexes. That's it, discussion closed.
What’s a key factor to know how far ahead of time Longstreet was.
US Grants best-man was Longstreet.
Also nobody knows but Lee had a heart condition that greatly affected his health and would die only a handful of years after the war. In like 100+ heat he was probably struggling. It’s also important to note he sent his cavalry to basically die in a showdown with the Unions. Not a lot of people know about how there was a huge cavalry slaughter outside of Gettysburg.
He also didn’t sleep much he got very little sleep all if you look into it was insane. He also wouldn’t eat if his men didn’t and refused nicer food and sleeping arrangements. Things that made him get respect and understanding of his men but absolutely brutal for a man in his sixty’s
@@kommando5562 He wasn't insane but he was suffering from heart disease which couldn't be diagnosed or treated in 1863.
Good point I forgot about the cavalry battle. I am going to look that up.
This move still blows my mind. No idea how Lee thought this would of been successful in the slightest. Day 2 was a tell of things to come if they still pursued the Union front.
He had broken the rules many times already in the war - splitting his forces up and attacking when faced with a superior enemy - and had won many times. So attacking across open ground up hill -- breaking another rule -- wasn't so obviously dumb anymore. Hell the entire Confederate war effort was breaking the rules, taking on a vastly superior enemy -- and thus far they were in their third consecutive year doing OK. Up to this point Confederate infantry was - man for man - superior in morale, ruggedness, and aggressiveness and usually beat Union units that outnumbered them.
As for this individual battle, he thought that because of Day 1 and 2, that the flanks would be beefed up and the center was weak. He thought the Confederate artillery would soften up the center still more. (They had fancy new shells that were supposed to be extra effective.)
And finally as he said, he felt they HAD to attack. The whole Pennsylvania campaign was an attempt to turn things around, to impose the South's will on the North for once, to give the Shenandoah farms a rest to be able to grow food, to put pressure on the Northern politicians and public to abandon support for the war, to encourage foreign powers to recognize the Confederacy. Fleeing the field would abandon all these things, and return to the North grinding on the South which in the long run probably only had one possible outcome. Win now or lose later.
Desperation and hubris
Hindsight is always 20/20
It’s very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.
@@nechiedavis1779Go to Gettysburg. It is really, really hard to see how Pickett's charge was going to actually work. It was a very large open space they had to cross. Artillery was invented for a battle like that. It looks, even to the rank amateur, like a suicide charge. Which is what happened. Sure, they got to the union line. Better than an amateur onlooker would expect. But the cost was obscenely high and the surviving force was, in fact, repulsed.
Lee lovers want it to be something more than it was. What it was was an obvious mistake. One the south could not afford.
Special Guest Star Robert E. Lee in this week's episode of "When Keepin' it Real, Goes Wrong."
I keeps it real! Is it wrong that I can hear Lee saying to Mead: You wanna play bitch? Then let's play! Cause I keeps it real!
@@pittland44 "Fuck that!" "No one plays on my battlefield"
best comment ever OMFG
Berenger and Sheen are so good together in this movie. Berenger is one damn good military actor. He's just so good in this and Platoon. These are two of my favorite movies.
Agree with you on Berenger and I do agree Sheen is a great actor. But, I dont think he was a good selection for this role.
Lee to Longstreet: Just do the impossible! Any questions?Longstreet: WTF!?*LOL*
"General Lee, with all due honor and respect sir, but if marijuana hasn't been invented yet, let's invent it right now and a blame you smoking a lot of it for what's about to happen."
Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew and smoked marijuana. It's in their letters. Washington set out to breed a variety that would be "milder on t' throat and yet losing none of his potency."
Sir I know how this will end, because we did the same to them at Fredericksburg bout 7 months ago....you were there sir.
Gen. Lee, by that point in time, wasn't listening...and he paid dearly for his stupidity!
One thing the movie does not convey is that Lee originally had a different plan. His initial plan for July 3 was to continue the attacks from the previous day. Ewell was to push on the Union right. The Confederates had captured the lower summit of Culps Hill on July 2, and Lee wanted them to take the rest of the hill and push on to Cemerery Hill and/or the Union's rear area. Meanwhile Longstreet would renew his attack on the Union left, pushing up the Emmitsburg Road. Both of the attacks would happen simultaneously to prevent Meade from shifting troops from one flank to the other.
Unfortunately for Lee, Meade and the Federal army frustrated those plans. It was the Federals who attacked on Culps Hill at first light. Ewell's men were heavily engaged and driven back long before Longstreet could coordinate his attack. At the other end of the line, Longstreet pointed out to Lee that Meade had extended and reinforced the Union left. Federal troops had occupied the Round Tops, making an attack up the Emmitsburg Road impossible.
Lee only developed the plan to attack the center around 10am, after it became clear the flanks weren't an option anymore. The decision to hit the center was more an act of desperation than anything else--all other possible avenues for attacking were off the table.
WOW! Such and exhilarating video, please make more!
That face Lee gives at :58 is killing me everytime i watch this 😂🤣
Same here I just commented about that lol. But I love this movie.
0:58
Lee's look on a his face. Hes like yeah and your point is ???
"We will prevail!" Easier said than done.
One of my favourite films
Very good acting, makin' it real.
As a novice on the strategy and tactics of this battle it seems Longstreet is the wiser general. Seems more criticism is warranted on Lee than the general impression I get as a novice here. I have great admiration for Longstreet as portrayed here. Would like to read more from those who have studied this battle. Admire Lee for overall having to deal with being commanding General but looks like he dropped the ball big time here.
Hes so wise why did he leave it up to a 26 yr old artillery man to basically make the call? There were a ton of mistakes those 3 days and that lost the battle of gettysburg for them..
Read Longstreets memior, "From Manassas to Appomattox ". He wrote it in response to all the haters who were talking shit about him.
longstreet was good at defence he wasnt that great on offence he knew how to make an enemy pay if they attacked his positions. with the tactics they had in those days to attack you had to have at least 3 to 1 to take and hold a position Longstreet knew that.
@@miketaylor5212 Longstreet may not have been as flashy on the offensive as say Stonewall Jackson, but he was a very well rounded commander. His devasting attack on the Union flank at Second Manassas nearly destroyed the Army of Virginia, and it was Longstreet's attack at Chickamauga that shattered the federal lines.
Lee: "I have never yet left the enemy in command of the field."
Longstreet: "Um, with all due respect sir, what about Battle of Malvern Hill? I seem to recall us leaving the Yanks in command of that."
Lee: "I said I never left the enemy in command of the field...
Longstreet: "And what about Antietam. I'm quite sure we ended up retreating from Maryland after that
Lee: "GODDAMMIT JAMES, I SAID I NEVER LEFT THE ENEMY IN COMMAND OF THE FIELD!"
Lee's rationale was much more reasonable than the movie suggests. At this time, Grant is besieging Vicksburg, threatening to take control of the Mississippi and splitting the South in two. Half the reason why Lee started his second Northern invasion was to win a victory on Union soil to bolster political pressure against Lincoln, knowing that he couldn't hope to relieve Vicksburg. If he disengaged without that victory, then any hope of forcing the Union to come to terms would evaporate, and the South's defeat would be inevitable.
Yeah I get that, I was just pointing out the Lee's line in the movie about never leaving the enemy in command of the field was false. I'm sure the real life Lee would not have said that.
Also, while Lee's choice to invade Pennsylvania was understandable, would it really have been able to accomplish anything tangible? Suppose he won the battle of Gettysburg, then what? He couldn't take Washington. That was the most heavily fortified city on earth at the time, and had a 40,000 man garrison.
He could have taken a different major city, like Harrisburg, Philadelphia, or Baltimore, but what good would that do? Taking a major city wasn't going to win him the war. The Confederates had already lost several major cities, including New Orleans and nearly the entire state of Tennessee, and they were still going strong. Obviously taking one Union city wasn't going to do any better. Best he could do would probably just pillage the city for supplies and then leave before a new army came to surround him.
@@TheStapleGunKid To answer that, look at someone who pursued the same strategy and succeeded: North Vietnam's top general, Võ Nguyên Giáp. During the Vietnam War, the Tet Offensive was a strategic disaster; the United States had pushed Giap's forces back, and no significant gains were made by the North Vietnamese. The deathtoll was enormous, with North Vietnam suffering upwards from 100,000.
And yet, the very fact that the offensive successfully took major cities in the first place was devastating for public morale. What was supposed to be an inevitable victory suddenly looked like a never-ending conflict that was costing the US as much as it was the North Vietnamese. That wasn't remotely true, but its the perception of that idea which matters. For Lincoln, who was in the midst of a reelection at this point in time, a military defeat would have been enormously damaging, especially if followed by the loss of a state capital. Such a loss would also have been devastating to the morale of the Union army at large, and the Army of the Potomac in particular.
Losing major cities on your own soil absolutely effects your populace's willingness to continue the war effort; particularly when your country is the invading belligerent. Lee's rationale was sound, he just didn't have the manpower or men to achieve his operational objectives, and he was hampered by having to reorganize his army in the aftermath of Jackson's death.
Ultimately, I think the largest reason why Lee lost was due to Jeb Stuart's absence. If Stuart was there to provide reconnaissance on where and how the Army of the Potomac was deployed, Longstreet's suggestion of disengaging and threatening Washington to force Meade into engaging Lee on his terms would have been feasible.
But like I said, the South lost many major cities and they still kept fighting. Even the loss of Atlanta, the South's most important center of industry, was still not enough to force the South to end the war right away. The idea that the Union would give up in response to one major city being lost is dubious. Remember during the revolution, America kept fighting after losing control of Philadelphia, Charleston, and the entire state of New York! In 1812, America kept fighting even after their capitol was captured and burned to the ground. Like I said, I understand what Lee was trying to accomplish. You can't win a war by fighting entirely on the defensive. At some point you have to take the fight to the enemy. But in this case I just think his long-term prospects for success were dubious, even if he had won the battle.
"and I have never yet left the enemy in command of the field. No, sir"
Subtext: "My own personal glory is more important than the lives of my men"
or maybe "The morale of my outnumbered and weary, shoe-less army is fragile and may not withstand retreat after battle, this way".
ANV never fought sherman.
That line wasn't even correct. Lee had left the Yanks in command of the field before this, at both Malvern Hill and Antietam.
Clem Cornpone, My, my, aren't we a hate-filled, vulgar individual. You obviously haven't studied history in depth. You do not know what was going on in the minds and hearts of all the men who were engaged in this war. Were you there? Loyalties were much different in those days. First it was to your state... to the family who gave you life. Then it was to country. Plus, it was the politicians (who I might add, did not fight in the war) who started the war, so the career soldiers who had to go South had no choice in the matter. Could you raise your sword against your family? I would hardly call that being a traitor. But remember one thing, Clem Cornpone, our FOREFATHERS were classified as TRAITORS! Sometimes, we all have to do what we have to do at the moment... make a decision and live with the repercussions, Mr. High and Mighty!
@@c44LuWanda I agree that guy went a little overboard. Everyone who respects the military skill of the Southern generals and the will in which the average soldier fought is not a white supremacist. Having said that, the Union did have shitty generals and when Grant took command the war ended in a year and change. The war should've ended at Bull Run but General McDowell was so over his head it turned out to be a disaster. The Confederates didnt do so well either it's just the Union did even worse. As for giving your loyalty to your state first that's a bullshit cop out. I know the mentality was different then but that's no excuse. Treason is treason. As for raising a sword against your family, why would u have to do that? The Confederates attacked Fort Sumpter, then they shot and killed a Colonel who was taking down a Confederate flag at the Marshall House when American troops came in to keep the peace. Then they attacked American troops at the Battle Of Big Bethal. After that the North had no choice but to put an end to it and thats what Bull Run was but it failed. As for being called a traitor, that's in the eye of the beholder. Yes, we were traitors to England because we wanted a free nation, the hypocrisy was that in 1779, while the Revolution was still going on, England made a decree that any man on English soil was free. Then in 1820 ended slavery, meanwhile we still had slaves. That's a disgrace.
when lee said 'split the federal line '' if longstreet had been drinking penn whiskey he could have responded with a hollywood spit take
Longstreet (thinking); OMG, Bob, what has gotten into you all of a sudden? You allways were such a cautious commander, but now you seem to have been bitten by the mad dog of war.
But at that moment, Lee was convinced that if they could break the line, they would be able to defeat the Union forces in detail, and then turn to threaten the capitol in Washington with little opposition. In 19th Century warfare, if you took the enemy's capital, it usually meant capitulation. He wanted to end the slaughter and bloodshed on both sides. He did view his forces as unbeatable, mostly up to that point they had held the better ground, fought defensively. The situation was reversed and he did not acknowledge that. Later, the Southern Apologists would deify Lee and blame Longstreet for the failure. Well, that and Longstreet became a Republican after the war. He was scorned and vilified because of that.
Longstreet knew and foretold what was coming
GOD BLESS MY AWESOME FRIEND MOCTESUMA ESPARZA. I AM SO VERY PROUD OF YOU AND SO VERY HAPPY FOR YOU MR. ESPARZA. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH MY FRIEND. 🙏🎁🎄😊
Longstreet understood more than Lee ever new
So what should Lee have done?
I didn't attend West Point and even I know that sending your men across open ground against artillery on a high ridge is suicide.
I didn’t know it before but the soundtrack told me.
Lee was in a state of denial ...he was believing the hype about himself and that was his downfall.
It wasn't just the preceding victories and miraculous escapes that made Lee overestimate their abilities.
He was genuinely sick of the killing.
He was desperately sick of it.
"I guess you could say, Longstreet is between a Stonewall and a hard place...*Puts on shades* YEEEAAAHHH!!!"
The thing I admire so much about Longstreet is that he carried out his orders ANYWAY. I'm not sure I could have. But to have such complete dedication to the team to carry out your portion of the plan despite the fact that you think it will be disasterous is commendable. Maybe people would call it foolish, but I think it took character for Longstreet and Pickett to do what they did.
Longstreet yes. But Pickett? Wasn't he just a silly perfumed, hair-curled twit who thought in flowery Victorian folderol that the charge would succeed?
Is that admirable? He allowed thousands of men to die for Lees hubris. It was character to charge a losing battle? Almost a million ppl died for your stupid idea of honor.
In those days a sense of honor and respect was a very real thing. You made your position known, but once your commanding officer made his decision, you carried out your orders TO THE BEST YOUR TALENTS WOULD ALLOW. You didn’t sabotage the thing you tried your best even if you thought it was not the best decision. Today, I wouldn’t trust my subordinates as far as I could throw them.
Lee was hard headed that day, Longstreet was just talking plan scene. Longstreet became demon after the war because he disagreed with Lee and said so after the war. He also joined the Rep party which was no no in the south at that time.
Adding to his "sins", he became a Roman Catholic and he worked for Grant, his old friend.
Longstreet and Sickles became good friends after the war.
@@dbarrystock I did not know that. I did know that Longstreet became a Rep, and pissed the democrat south off
This is a pretty good example of the sunken cost fallacy.
Longstreet was way ahead of Lee when it came understanding the progression of warfare and the mathematics of it...Lee seemed still stuck in the Napoleonic age when it came to tactics.
That's what I see Lee as: The last great Napoleonic style warrior. He was a master at that kind of close formation, free wheeling, open country style of fight. However, he didn't understand what the changes in military technology meant to warfare.
Yet, Lee was at Malvern Hill when the Union held the high ground and chewed up his brigades; it isn't as if Lee didn't have any prior examples to draw upon.
@@pittland44 Lee graduated in 1825 from West Point if I recall correctly, he was very close to that era
@@canadaero Exactly. He was the master of Napoleonic warfare. I don't think he quite understood how warfare was shifting, and to be fair none of the others realized it either. At least at first. That's why so much of the war was a cluster f@#$. No one realized what was happening.
If only Lee had paid more attention to the Star Wars movies while at West Point, he would have learned from Obi-wan Kenobi that the high ground matters
Lee’s pride blinded him and he started to dream: ‘we will prevail’. He rejected the voice of reason.
Lee made the right call - listen to me - he knew the Confederacy was finished unless he could pull off a miraculous Victory - It didn't work out. But, he gambled when he knew he could still put some chips on the table.
This is where Lee's over confidence lost the war. Thank the Lord
Remember the great champions of “state’s rights” enslaving the blacks of northern states as they went.
@@ribonucleic lol the north never ended slavery throughout the entire war. In fact Lincolns family had them as well. The union couldn't get enough votes in the senate to pass the 13th amendment to end slavery.....it took the confederate congressmen rejoining before it was able to pass. Was the union congress keeping slavery around not the confederates. In fact it was the union who came up with the Corwin agreement, signed by President Lincoln that was offered up and would have made slavery legal FOREVER and couldn't be changed by the senate or courts. Pretending that war was about slavery is laughable
@@chrismurphy4021 It was still about slavery. However, concerning slavery it wasn't about emancipation; don't confuse the two. Emancipation was a mid-war political maneuver that was a result of war, not the cause of it.
@@chrismurphy4021 there were no confederate congressmen there were a bunch of freed black congressmen and that is why it passed 2 years after the war while west virginia maryland and delaware still held their slaves.
Longstreet had the most common sense and rational thinking in this entire battle from the Confederate side.
That begs the question ; If Longstreet was so realistic and pragmatic why did he join the south in the civil war ?
Lee's pride costed them a victory he lost the battle by refusing to retreat only to spend the rest of the war retreating
Longstreet after a compelling, meticulous argument: "Attacking the center will be suicide."
Lee high on wishful thinking: "Do you know who I am?"
Wasn't the original plan for Stuart to ride around Culp's Hill and attack the Union center from behind? Something about a guy named Custer and his 7th Michigan Calvary stopping him?
The rebs were done by day 3.
***** Lee made a mistake.
yes the plan was to split the center and as the union troops broke and ran stuarts cavalry would be there to run them down and slaughter them.
Yes we stopped Stuart, 6th Michigan, and yes we also had a unit in the IRON BRIGADE.
@Il Postino I am sorry, I was making a comment put your big boy pants on and get over it okay 👍
Longstreet at 2:14 is thinking, “this muthaf*kka gone crazy”
Meade knew Lee. He knew his hubris. Lee would not retreat so Meade used this against him. He turned Lee's strength into his weakness - brilliant. Longstreet was talking about a tactical retreat and was 50 -65 years ahead of Lee in tactics, particularly when on foreign ground. No sir, If Longstreet had his way - things would have been very different, not just in July of 1863, but right now as well. Longstreet was too smart for Lee. And if Stonewall were there - he would have come up with something that no one yet has thought of.
Want a load of BS... man... i dont even know where to start with that crap....
If Stonewall was there the battle would have been over with the first day because he would have secured the high ground that Lee commanded to take if "practical".. Stonewall could read Lee's language and would have made it practical.
LOL No just no. A full retreat was the best course of action. Longstreet's suggestion of redeployment was completely asinine and would have gotten the lot of them captured or killed. Meade didn't charge into Lee's army when he held the better ground he sure as wouldn't have attacked it from an inferior position. No Meade would have just planted himself between Lee's new position and DC, dug in and waited for reinforcements to flank Lee and it would be game over right there. Wouldn't even need to assault the position in two weeks Lee's army would be out of provisions.
No, things wouldn't be different today. The Confederates were going to be defeated, one way or another, regardless of whether they won at Gettysburg. It was a matter of time...
@@ruthlesshack1279 I beg to differ. A Confederate win at Gettysburg might have had the North pushing for peace, and it may have had England backing the South. As you know, The South did not have to vanquish the North. They needed to prolong the war just long enough. All things being equal, of course the North would win. A northern victory required the destruction of the South. A Southern win did not require the same.
lees stubbornness in this regard was a blessing from God. always remember, if the south won, slavery would still be legal in the U.S.
"If I move all my people up...we wont have a flank"
Lee was basically convinced that god was on his side and was going to hand him the battle no matter what, if you read his letters at the time.
The whole confederacy was of that opinion. That’s why they took on the more powerful north in and he first place. They knew they couldn’t win tactically. They sought to win politically and it the court of public opinion. The south sought to make the war so costly for the north in both men and materials that northern public opinion would turn against pursuing the war.
This tactic worked for the North Vietnamese 100 years later.
The pressure Lee was under , led for a momentary laps of reason. Confidence, hubris.
Something few people ever mention is the political ramifications for retreating. Lee could not retreat knowing the Virginians had not been in the battle yet. It would appear that Lee protected the men from his own state and spared them from that battle. I’m sure this was on his mind when deciding what to do. He could not fight 2 days, lose thousands of men, and March away without throwing the Virginians into battle
Longstreet: :States basic tactical observations that should warrant extreme caution against any attack whatsoever:
Lee: "They will break in the center." :loud ominous music starts playing:
Longstreet: "What?"
Lee: "I said they will break in the center, Sir."
Longstreet: "No I heard that part, it was stupid. I was talking about the music of impending doom that kicked in right after you made that obviously ridiculous statement."
There should be a saying. Not 'cat got your tongue?', but "pride got your wits?"
And "Pride got your wits?" fits quite well here.
Ahh, General Lee. You left the Union Army in control of the field at Antietam. Remember?
Lee was definitely not thinking straight at this point.
Arrogance is a hell of a drug.
I would not say it arrogance at all. That's a curious thing to say. Lee always knew that his army was vastly outnumbered and he saw a real chance to use military action as a lever to force political victory. He was wrong at Gettysburg, but I can't classify it as arrogance. Call it over-confidence and I may agree, but not arrogance.
too concerned with ending the war cost aside...which is not unreasonable....but one needs a victorious gain...
Lee had been experiencing angina and probably figured he hadn't long to live, regardless of that, the likelihood of his dying dangling at the end of rope as the result of a defeat had to cross his mind as the war wound down. As it turned out he and Davis both died in their own beds and Lincoln was subsequently murdered after Appomattox as a target of a ''lost cause'' conspiracy.
Overconfidence, arrogance. The distinction without a difference. Too many people play semantics over the Civil War, don't be one of them!
Lee was offered the Command of the Union army before he defected, so you know he was a trusted tactician. He also benefited from the tactics of Longstreet, Jackson and Stuart but by the time Gettysburg rolled around, (1.) Longstreet's corp was just coming into battle (last), (2.) Ewell replaced Jackson after Jacksons death before the engagement at Gettysburg and was incredibly cautious allowing the Union to entrench Culps Hill, disregarding the scouting of his men to press the attack before the Unions entrenchment. (3.) Stuart had gone to far up north prior to the engagement of Gettysburg and this would cost Lee his "eyes", (4.) Lee disregarding Longstreet in this moment and his inability to recognize this "Fredericksburg" style scenario of attacking across open ground surrounded by cannon on the high ground and men behind a stonewall in the center. Gettysburg was an absolute blunder for Lee.
Gettysburg was the price the South paid for Robert E. Lee. Every great military strategist has made at least one major mistake. Pickett's Charge was Lee's.
That's what Shelby Foote said, right?
@@joshuadesautels probably
“General Longstreet, I want you to ride with forceful effect and use your crazy beard to pierce the federal lines”
Longstreet: “Now THAT is a plan that makes more sense than that Pickett thing you said”.
a lot of people believe lee had had a heart attack that Spring previous and wasn't quite what he was at this point
I heard the same thing. Plus, look at all the stupidity of Generals under his command that wouldn't listen to him...and yet, the Confederates nearly won the Gettysburg Campaign on the first day of battle! There were problems, though, what with attacks not being properly coordinated, and worse yet, no Gen. Stuart, who hadn't been around the Confederate Army for at least a week! He was in Carlisle, PA, getting supplies for the Confederate Army, and because of his absence, the whole Confederate Army came very close to being spotted! Harrison, a spy that worked for Gen. Longstreet, got word to him just in time!
Sad when a great Gral like Longstreet gets vilified, and Lee who sent his men to be slaughtered gets a Gods treatment. If he would have listened to the advice, that battle would not have been the end of the South, but, that’s just history, a sad one, but history after all. Lots of good men lost their life from both sides for what?? Walked that field as a tourist, what a exhilarating experience. 🥺
Lee has come down with what is known as victory disease.
They're always banging on about honour, which usually precedes some sort of catastrophic mistake.
“Honor doesn’t shield men from plunging fire, sir.”
I could not imagine Robert E. Lee was capable of this level of pride and arrogance. Two sins that cost he and his men dearly.
As a 30+ year U S Army Veteran ..THAT sounded like a Order To Me..!!
The Union where damn lucky Confederate General Jackson wasn’t at Gettysburg
And the Confederacy were damn lucky that Union General Grant wasn't either.
@@manilajohn0182 .... Actually Grant was right where he needed to be
Winning the battle of Vicksburg. Which was much more important strategically
Few people seem to understand this
@@bclaverenz1 I agree with you regarding both Grant and Vicksburg. As far as Jackson's concerned, there's no telling what he would have done. There's Jackson of the Valley who generally befuddled the opposition, and then there's Jackson of the Seven Days who completely failed Lee.
'They are well entrenched up there; they aim to fight! They have good artillery and plenty of it!' Longstreet is being entirely realistic about his enemy's morale, position, and material strength, all things a good combat commander must keep in mind. Lee, on the other hand, is working from sentimentality- honour in the face of the enemy somehow makes up for a weakened army and a weaker position. It's a lovely and poetic idea, but bad military strategy...
thank god for union commander Buford who not only scouted the high ground positions that later would break the confederate advances
but also delayed the rebel vanguard long enough for the unions forces to entrench those hills and high elevations which helped to win the day.
In theory I could see where Lee was coming from with his battle plans. The flanks of the Union army had been attacked for most of the afternoon and evening on July 2nd and Lee's thinking was they'd reinforce the flanks anticipating Lee would again attack the flanks and thus leaving the center vulnerable. Lee's wishful thinking put in action unfortunately got thousands killed.
Lee himself saw the butchery at Fredricksburg. He saw valiant waves of Union soldiers braving the fire with their shoulders shrugged as though shot and cannister were a winter storm...and he saw them butchered until the field was carpeted with their dead and dying bodies. Yet he learned nothing and sent his own men into the very same meat grinder.
Lee: "I have never yet left the enemy in command of the field". "Cough, Antietam, Cough." Lee retreated and left Sharpsburg to McClellan the year before. McClellan was incompetent as always, but Lee did indeed yield the field. Either Lee lied, the screenwriter lied, or Killer Angels(the book the move is based on) lied.
There must have been a dry cleaners nearby. Their uniforms are all so clean.