We go from traveling across the 7 seas filming some of the most extreme athletes in the world to filming our kids in our back yards, I fully approve of this :) Makes me happy. The evolution of a filmmaker, capturing what matters most :) Love seeing your adventures with the fam.
We don't even watch these videos because we are interested in buying the product. We watch them for the same reason that Parker says he buys the product and makes them, every time we watch them it reignites a small spark within us that wants to passionately create anything we want and it's super fun to nerd out over gear like this too so when you have the money, why wouldn't you buy it! These guys always inspire us, plus, how lucky are we to be living in a time where we can have cameras ranging from $2,000 to $50,000 where the gap in quality isn't hugely noticeable :)
Parker, thank you! THIS is the review I was waiting for. Concise, relevant, covers pretty much everything and even has test footage. That's why you're one of the best.
I have now 3 years a RED Gemini. It is my Secound camera I ever have. Before I film on a camcorder. I have think my self, why every year buying a new cheap gear, that cannot outperform the RED today and future. So I spend my money only one time in a fully RED accessorie kit and now I can learn everyday more about filming without, the camera limits my shots. Now I don't need a new camera in the next 10 years. The cameras today are not bad. So in future, the quality is the same. For me it worth every euro!
Filmmakers: uh this 8k looks super crispy, it's incredible! FPV pilots like me: that hole! that 1:11 min hole needs to be crossed with my drone lol (oh, before I forget, great video. Very useful info and comparison, even for people who are probably never gonna be able to afford anything similar to a Red)
@@vadergrd I mean movie studios could and they're the main ones using Arri. There's just no reason to purchase them though honestly I feel like more RUclipsrs should use Arri over Red when comparing the colors and price difference.
12:40 Parker, that is totally me. Even though I am under the age of 16, I have a huge passion for filmmaking/videography. At times I feel burned out because everyone around me thinks it's funny and new gear or ides or watching your videos makes me feel that passion again. That you for the VERY GREAT content. Your video make me want to become one of your team members.
Well I got to start by saying kids for the win!!! 😎 Yeah the price alone is a pro level camera, or unless you have 40K burning a hole in your pocket. It is a niche market, but when it is your job, it can really allow you to hit specific things you can't do with other tools. The fact the price basically dropped in half is amazing. It makes me think in a few years we will have 8K 240 fps on our smart phones!
worked a couple years doing mlb for fox, this was during 16/17 so we were using the alexa mini and the dragon. the alexa was definitely the alpha of the two, but there was just something about shooting on the red that just gave this creative vibe. idk for me, it'll always the red
I appreciate the honesty on whether or not you really needed this camera and how much of this purchase was for pleasure. I had a bit of chuckle when you mentioned the 30 min record time on the R5 considering the card limit with the Raptor is 13 minutes!
Your footage is what i search for if i want to test out a display. It's just awesome. Better than everything out there. The bmpcc 6k pro is something i watch again and again. Just soo good.
RED Product Manager: "Adding 8K-120 will open up creative avenues for documentary and narrative filmmakers to tell meaningful, world-changing stories." Parker: "Hold my FIJI..."
6:05 definitely noticed vignetting in the intro shots. Wow vista vision sensor is so humongous! Knowing rf lens are 8k res ready lens and still having vignettes. What are some lenses that covers VV sensor?? Love the slomo shot at the end hahahahaa perfect example of using slomo 😂
Canon cameras (and pretty much all stills cameras) have automatic lens correction applied, the sony FX6/9 do this too, but I am guessing that RED cameras don't
You're a talented guy so I'm sure you'll put your V-Raptor to good use!! I wouldn't say it's overkill at all. I have one also and I'm not a big time RUclips influencer :)
Well, you have to take ISO into account when exposing. It’s not like throwing whatever ISO value you want while shooting, cause that will affect your shutter, aperture and ND selection, and can end up in noisy footage, or it’s opposite: irrecoverable blown highlights. It gives some margin, but only to a certain extent. White balance, however, is another story. But it’s always better to get the best image possible from the start than having to tweak it out in post, consuming valuable time.
I thought that the high end headphone hobby was expensive until I got into videography. When I saw an $800 camera listed as entry level I immediately regretted my decision 😬
Be careful about side-by-sides showing low light. If one side is much noisier, it will hog all the bandwidth and make the other side look less noisy because there won't be bandwidth left to render the noise. Notice how in the iso6400 test, when the left side switches from weapon to r5 the raptor gets much noisier... that's because it's suddenly able to use more bandwidth to show you the raptor noise. It's pretty handy to be able to see what raptor looks like at iso6400 since that also gives an idea of total dynamic range since red doesn't ever use any analog gain for ISO adjustments. Thanks for these tests!
The Raptor's 16 Bit colour science speaks for itself, and it speaks loudly ! 👀👌The image is very good. I also like the BMD URSA Mini Pro 12K 's 12 bit real RGB super 35 sensor image.
I think this just goes to show that for minor improvements, video people will spend an almost middle class salary on a camera when the rest of us can get 99% of the way there with a $3k Sony A7iii. RED is a crazy company and however much they are paying their marketing guy, it's not enough.
Your battery charger is more expensive than my friends camera that I borrow for shooting lol😂😂 What I have learnt from you is not about the gear but how you use it... Hope I can one day have this cool tech🙌🏽 This one is a beauty
I'd rather buy the RED V-Raptor than a Ford Raptor even though I bet I could get a Ford for the same price too. But I mean... I'd rather have a RED and no car, than a car and no RED
For everyone saying this is expensive, it’s not. It vastly outperforms Red’s previous flagships at half the price! We use a RED Weapon 6K right now and I’m so excited to make the upgrade to this camera eventually! I’m definitely going to pick up one of these used in a year or 2, that dynamic range and color science is second to none!
You know very well the people saying that aren’t RED owners, it’s relatively inexpensive to the cameras in that lineup but the cameras in that lineup are extremely expensive. We’re at a time where images from many systems are starting to look almost the same now so that’s also why people say it’s expensive.
@@CamiloMaster10 yeah but you’re not getting dynamic range that is close to what our eyes see, that’s one of the reasons why these cameras still have a purpose in the industry, also the professional workflow is amazing to work with.
They're saying its expensive because they mistakenly look at it as a consumer product. Not as the profession item that it is. This is the camera you buy when you intend to operate a business. Not to take on vacation to take family videos.
I really enjoyed the footage you shot of your kids and the paint set with the Canon C70 @ 120. Equally impressive to this video. Thanks for the insight. I'll get another C70.
My phone doesn't even support 4k and I am seeing something shot in 8k with RED. Well certain dreams may remain dream but it doesn't mean that we stop chasing them.
As unfortunate as it is, companies always ask for Alexa mini, you will get booked simply because you have the camera. Even if the codec is better, or frame rates are better, an Alexa will pay for itself faster than red.
It's not unfortunate actually because you are talking nonsense. Red is used on more commercial work, music videos, high end real estate, Netflix and the like series, high end weddings, and short indie low budget films. The only place Arri is king is with block buster and other high budget movies that aren't using film. But even there RED is starting to climb. Personally I like the Arri image better than RED's but facts are facts. And as someone how is getting into the Cinema rental area and doing a ton of research for the last year and given my location 2 of the Cameras we will be going with will be the Raptor and the Komodo. We already have a ton of other cheaper systems for rentals. The Reds will be paid off within a few months. I mean you are talking to Parker here. Doesn't matter which camera he purchases. The cheaper one will pay for itself quicker if it is you making the content with it. And it will pay for itself quicker if it's in a rental situation.. Stay off the sauce.
This is an interesting question for you Parker.... At this point in your career and with the ability to do it, Why haven't you shot on Arri yet? Not even to make a comparison. I would like to know your thoughts on that because I find it interesting that you out of a lot of people have the resources to get your hands on an Arri but don't even bother going that route.
Yeah I never understand why so many people buy RED cameras and have never even tried Arri. There's a reason nearly all directors use Arri over Red. You'd think if this was your business you'd at least try the camera that the most talented prefer, before forking out thousands on an inferior camera.
@@fulltimefilmmaker I’m just asking because I find it interesting that you haven’t compared any of your gear with an Arri and you are absolutely right Arri is not for everyone and not everyone needs an Arri. I don’t think they have a full frame they have Super 35 Sensors.
@@MiguelReyes-sx1vs The Arri Alexa LF and Mini LF are full frame. The price jump from a "ready to shoot" V-Raptor kit to a Mini LF kit is nearly the same as going from a Canon C70 to the V-Raptor though.
imagine if RUclips could support 8k 12 bit @120 fps and you watch it on 10 inch ipad screen which is also support these features (i think you can't tell the difference anymore beyond this)
i understand what you mean as far as motivation goes. I mean here I am...no interest in buying this camera whatsoever, but did i watch the whole entire video? YES, did I hit "LIKE"? Hell yea...am I now in the comment section enthus'd?? You bet! ...so imagine if i had access to the cam itself..imagine how much more I'd be ready to create something with it! GREAT VID!
Hmmm, this is rather interesting. For the price, I was under the assumption that Red would have good lowlight performance, but I think I am understanding now that its simply one of the best ways to handle those extreme file sizes and camera throughput. I also didn't know that Red cameras didnt have autofocus, but I by no means a cinematographer with access to that kid of money. very informative video!
When I look at the resolution at RUclips it doesn't say any fps, just 8k, which still is very impressive, it would be cool also if it could go up to 120FPS
Amazing intro, great review! Have you guys looked at reviewing any of Edelkrones sliders and jibs. Having a hard time picking between Rhino and Edlekrone
![Eminem - Somebody Save Me (feat. Jelly Roll) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vwa0HenQMi4/mqdefault.jpg)
We go from traveling across the 7 seas filming some of the most extreme athletes in the world to filming our kids in our back yards, I fully approve of this :) Makes me happy. The evolution of a filmmaker, capturing what matters most :) Love seeing your adventures with the fam.
YOU BOTH ROCK🔥
Wanna see you both collab one day. Just like back in the old days ;)
@@DoObs kolder 😏
@@fulltimefilmmaker fuji water is only for people who give zero f*cks about the environment. Please be more responsible
We don't even watch these videos because we are interested in buying the product. We watch them for the same reason that Parker says he buys the product and makes them, every time we watch them it reignites a small spark within us that wants to passionately create anything we want and it's super fun to nerd out over gear like this too so when you have the money, why wouldn't you buy it! These guys always inspire us, plus, how lucky are we to be living in a time where we can have cameras ranging from $2,000 to $50,000 where the gap in quality isn't hugely noticeable :)
So true! Though there has to be balance between gaining inspiration from community and using that as a distraction
This camera is phenomenal but that price tag is also phenomenal 💰
All I was thinking is just how massive those files were! :)
2:16 Davinci: how much orange do you want in your color grade?
Parker: all of it
Brendon's drinking from the fiji water had me dead 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅😅
Parker, thank you! THIS is the review I was waiting for. Concise, relevant, covers pretty much everything and even has test footage. That's why you're one of the best.
I have now 3 years a RED Gemini.
It is my Secound camera I ever have.
Before I film on a camcorder.
I have think my self, why every year buying a new cheap gear, that cannot outperform the RED today and future.
So I spend my money only one time in a fully RED accessorie kit and now I can learn everyday more about filming without, the camera limits my shots.
Now I don't need a new camera in the next 10 years.
The cameras today are not bad. So in future, the quality is the same.
For me it worth every euro!
Filmmakers: uh this 8k looks super crispy, it's incredible!
FPV pilots like me: that hole! that 1:11 min hole needs to be crossed with my drone lol
(oh, before I forget, great video. Very useful info and comparison, even for people who are probably never gonna be able to afford anything similar to a Red)
Cant believe how expensive the accessories are. Seems like highway robbery.
This is nothing compared to other pro cinema gear.
welcome to the RED ecosystem lol. I mean Arri does it too, but nobody buys Arri's they just rent em.
@@CinemaSteve also nobody probably affords them...
@@vadergrd I mean movie studios could and they're the main ones using Arri. There's just no reason to purchase them though honestly I feel like more RUclipsrs should use Arri over Red when comparing the colors and price difference.
@@CinemaSteve my company will soon, the arri alexa mini lf, hmmm
Parker’s living the life where he never has to explain to his wife why he just invested in a $34k Camera. 😂 #Goals Great stuff Parker. Blessings.
Man, this is the dream. Wish Kenyan babes would learn from this😂😂
12:40
Parker, that is totally me. Even though I am under the age of 16, I have a huge passion for filmmaking/videography.
At times I feel burned out because everyone around me thinks it's funny and new gear or ides or watching your videos makes me feel that passion again.
That you for the VERY GREAT content.
Your video make me want to become one of your team members.
Man I’ve been waiting on this video! An absolute insane camera!!
Dude listening to the audio with noise cancelled headphones is a trip. Your room is so well sound insulated.
RED drops value faster than any other camera
As well as iPhones 😂
Looking so butter in the office bro! 🔥🔥🔥
Well I got to start by saying kids for the win!!! 😎
Yeah the price alone is a pro level camera, or unless you have 40K burning a hole in your pocket.
It is a niche market, but when it is your job, it can really allow you to hit specific things you can't do with other tools.
The fact the price basically dropped in half is amazing. It makes me think in a few years we will have 8K 240 fps on our smart phones!
Not even a mention to that incredible 28-70mm f/2.0 Canon lens
Not gonna lie, that 480fps footage didn't look too good. But the 8k 120p was gorgeous!
worked a couple years doing mlb for fox, this was during 16/17 so we were using the alexa mini and the dragon. the alexa was definitely the alpha of the two, but there was just something about shooting on the red that just gave this creative vibe. idk for me, it'll always the red
I appreciate the honesty on whether or not you really needed this camera and how much of this purchase was for pleasure. I had a bit of chuckle when you mentioned the 30 min record time on the R5 considering the card limit with the Raptor is 13 minutes!
Um you can select compression ratios and get more time, mor0n
You know what is more enjoyable seeing than the V-Raptor ? Your 1.63m subs.
spot on conclusion, definitely see myself right there! Can't wait to get mine!
100% agree about new gear reigniting your passion for filmmaking. I got burnt out with my gh5, but cant wait to film again with my c70
Overkill but just it’s exclusivity of its video and RAW capabilities makes it so much more interesting.
The price of everything adds up with all the accessories
That message you shared at the 12:39 mark is incredibly true!
Keep up the great work!
Your footage is what i search for if i want to test out a display. It's just awesome. Better than everything out there. The bmpcc 6k pro is something i watch again and again. Just soo good.
I can’t get over how amazing the image is. Sheesh!
Stellar camera. But I am pretty Happy with what my A7SIII gives me.
Cool video bro. I agree. New gear does fire up the passion again. I just got new lights haha
the 8k VV sensor has been around for almost 4 years now. Seems they've perfected the sensor and they are now building new bodies around it ;)
This video is really good presentation.
But moreover I want to buy this water!
Parker that’s SO BUTTER 🧈 Beautiful.
That footage was so sharp though looked amazing. Love your work Parker. Love being part of your course.
RED Product Manager: "Adding 8K-120 will open up creative avenues for documentary and narrative filmmakers to tell meaningful, world-changing stories."
Parker: "Hold my FIJI..."
Now imagine doing a documentary of a climb to the top of Mt Everest or a trip to the Antarctic with just that FIJI.
My internet sucks so I had to watch your video in 144p 😂
6:05 definitely noticed vignetting in the intro shots. Wow vista vision sensor is so humongous! Knowing rf lens are 8k res ready lens and still having vignettes.
What are some lenses that covers VV sensor??
Love the slomo shot at the end hahahahaa perfect example of using slomo 😂
Canon cameras (and pretty much all stills cameras) have automatic lens correction applied, the sony FX6/9 do this too, but I am guessing that RED cameras don't
CVP has an online tool for lens/sensor coverage.
You're a talented guy so I'm sure you'll put your V-Raptor to good use!! I wouldn't say it's overkill at all. I have one also and I'm not a big time RUclips influencer :)
That cinematic in the begginning is pure gold
When he changed the iso in premiere pro my mind was absolutely blown
This is insane, you can get the perfect footage everytime
Well, you have to take ISO into account when exposing. It’s not like throwing whatever ISO value you want while shooting, cause that will affect your shutter, aperture and ND selection, and can end up in noisy footage, or it’s opposite: irrecoverable blown highlights. It gives some margin, but only to a certain extent. White balance, however, is another story. But it’s always better to get the best image possible from the start than having to tweak it out in post, consuming valuable time.
I guess I’m showing my age. This footage has sold me on this camera, but I almost had a.heart attack watching the children playing on the rocks!
All i want for 🎄🎁 Christmas is RED
This guy really buying a 34k camera for fun. I'm over here dreaming about an a7siii
Where is it stated he bought it just for fun?
Bro def wrote that one off ✍🏽☑️😂
I actually clicked to close the 'disk not ejected properly' window.
that b-roll clip with the Figi water and finger roll was hilarious. Great content and info brother thank you for your work!
I thought that the high end headphone hobby was expensive until I got into videography. When I saw an $800 camera listed as entry level I immediately regretted my decision 😬
"That's when he knew he f%cked up"
The best part is in the end the media for storage and playback speed and backup will cost you more than the camera system itself. ;)
800 isn’t even entry level…
@@dschapin This is true. 800 in video land is super low end.
@@dschapin what is it then 😭
you know what is more important than camera quality, SOUND DESIGN
Be careful about side-by-sides showing low light. If one side is much noisier, it will hog all the bandwidth and make the other side look less noisy because there won't be bandwidth left to render the noise. Notice how in the iso6400 test, when the left side switches from weapon to r5 the raptor gets much noisier... that's because it's suddenly able to use more bandwidth to show you the raptor noise. It's pretty handy to be able to see what raptor looks like at iso6400 since that also gives an idea of total dynamic range since red doesn't ever use any analog gain for ISO adjustments. Thanks for these tests!
2:15 I nearly jumped off my seat " woooo this is sharp 😱 " Watched it on a 4K monitor of course...
"But most of you are watching on a 1080p cellphone so you couldn't care less" 😂
The Raptor's 16 Bit colour science speaks for itself, and it speaks loudly ! 👀👌The image is very good. I also like the BMD URSA Mini Pro 12K 's 12 bit real RGB super 35 sensor image.
great footage!
The footage of your kids looks great- what is your post workflow like for grading?
I was more concerned about the safety of those kids than the price of this camera.
Parker is there so he won't let anything bad happen
me watching at 1080p *wow amazing a really big upgrade*
I think this just goes to show that for minor improvements, video people will spend an almost middle class salary on a camera when the rest of us can get 99% of the way there with a $3k Sony A7iii. RED is a crazy company and however much they are paying their marketing guy, it's not enough.
you'll change your mind the day you shoot on a real cinema camera and see how truly beautiful the image is
Great review! Very helpful
13:40 😁👌 круто получилось !
I don't know how but my laptop which struggles to play other 8k videos (shot on R5 etc) managed to play this one at 8k flawlessly !
It's a miracle
Your battery charger is more expensive than my friends camera that I borrow for shooting lol😂😂
What I have learnt from you is not about the gear but how you use it... Hope I can one day have this cool tech🙌🏽
This one is a beauty
I use a setup like this for vlogging and I've been very pleased.
Very informative review. Thanks so much!😊👍
That FIJI water ad, I love it! A legit LOL
I'd rather buy the RED V-Raptor than a Ford Raptor even though I bet I could get a Ford for the same price too. But I mean... I'd rather have a RED and no car, than a car and no RED
watching at native 8k on my tv .... looks fantastic keep up the great work!!!!!!!!
I’m a final cut editor and just looking at the premiere pro layout actually makes me feel sick 😂
😆😆
Great video!
I love it!
BTW I’m still wanting for a arri alexa video 😉
Will you ever make a video with an arri??
10:58 gave me the reason why I need RED V-Raptor.
For everyone saying this is expensive, it’s not. It vastly outperforms Red’s previous flagships at half the price! We use a RED Weapon 6K right now and I’m so excited to make the upgrade to this camera eventually! I’m definitely going to pick up one of these used in a year or 2, that dynamic range and color science is second to none!
You know very well the people saying that aren’t RED owners, it’s relatively inexpensive to the cameras in that lineup but the cameras in that lineup are extremely expensive. We’re at a time where images from many systems are starting to look almost the same now so that’s also why people say it’s expensive.
@@CamiloMaster10 yeah but you’re not getting dynamic range that is close to what our eyes see, that’s one of the reasons why these cameras still have a purpose in the industry, also the professional workflow is amazing to work with.
They're saying its expensive because they mistakenly look at it as a consumer product. Not as the profession item that it is. This is the camera you buy when you intend to operate a business. Not to take on vacation to take family videos.
@@krane15 exactly
11:11 hilarious 😂! Yet powerful 🔥
For the price it's still an incredible camera - better specs than the monstro
I can't even afford an Iphone 7, yet I'm HERE
only $34,000.000 dollars? wow that is cheap, ill take two of these!!!!!!
so lovely 120fps slow-motion!
Bravo!!!!
Awwww! The kids are so adorable 🥰 definitely both are gone through Father
I really enjoyed the footage you shot of your kids and the paint set with the Canon C70 @ 120. Equally impressive to this video. Thanks for the insight. I'll get another C70.
i was surprised when i saw the 8k option on this video
1:20 That arch looks like a wolf's head.
My phone doesn't even support 4k and I am seeing something shot in 8k with RED. Well certain dreams may remain dream but it doesn't mean that we stop chasing them.
Ohhh my god how crisp that picture is 😱😱 gotta get one too 😅
As unfortunate as it is, companies always ask for Alexa mini, you will get booked simply because you have the camera. Even if the codec is better, or frame rates are better, an Alexa will pay for itself faster than red.
It's not unfortunate actually because you are talking nonsense. Red is used on more commercial work, music videos, high end real estate, Netflix and the like series, high end weddings, and short indie low budget films. The only place Arri is king is with block buster and other high budget movies that aren't using film. But even there RED is starting to climb. Personally I like the Arri image better than RED's but facts are facts. And as someone how is getting into the Cinema rental area and doing a ton of research for the last year and given my location 2 of the Cameras we will be going with will be the Raptor and the Komodo. We already have a ton of other cheaper systems for rentals. The Reds will be paid off within a few months. I mean you are talking to Parker here. Doesn't matter which camera he purchases. The cheaper one will pay for itself quicker if it is you making the content with it. And it will pay for itself quicker if it's in a rental situation..
Stay off the sauce.
Perfect place for the teal and orange look.
This is an interesting question for you Parker.... At this point in your career and with the ability to do it, Why haven't you shot on Arri yet? Not even to make a comparison. I would like to know your thoughts on that because I find it interesting that you out of a lot of people have the resources to get your hands on an Arri but don't even bother going that route.
Yeah I never understand why so many people buy RED cameras and have never even tried Arri. There's a reason nearly all directors use Arri over Red. You'd think if this was your business you'd at least try the camera that the most talented prefer, before forking out thousands on an inferior camera.
@@fulltimefilmmaker I’m just asking because I find it interesting that you haven’t compared any of your gear with an Arri and you are absolutely right Arri is not for everyone and not everyone needs an Arri. I don’t think they have a full frame they have Super 35 Sensors.
@@fulltimefilmmaker that’s exactly it!!! You need 3 people to operate them correctly. That is a very valid point. Great conversation Parker.
@@MiguelReyes-sx1vs The Arri Alexa LF and Mini LF are full frame. The price jump from a "ready to shoot" V-Raptor kit to a Mini LF kit is nearly the same as going from a Canon C70 to the V-Raptor though.
Watching on 1080 screen you care less " lool
Great review, Parker.
imagine if RUclips could support 8k 12 bit @120 fps and you watch it on 10 inch ipad screen which is also support these features (i think you can't tell the difference anymore beyond this)
Would love to see a review of the Komodo 6k! Both as a standalone camera for a small production and as a B-cam to the V-Raptor.
i understand what you mean as far as motivation goes. I mean here I am...no interest in buying this camera whatsoever, but did i watch the whole entire video? YES, did I hit "LIKE"? Hell yea...am I now in the comment section enthus'd?? You bet! ...so imagine if i had access to the cam itself..imagine how much more I'd be ready to create something with it! GREAT VID!
Great camera. Prefer my Blackmagic 12K though.
Love my R5.
Very nice review
Yup looks as good as the 1080 stuff you guys put out on my phone.
Hmmm, this is rather interesting. For the price, I was under the assumption that Red would have good lowlight performance, but I think I am understanding now that its simply one of the best ways to handle those extreme file sizes and camera throughput. I also didn't know that Red cameras didnt have autofocus, but I by no means a cinematographer with access to that kid of money. very informative video!
came here after mkbhd video 🌍😎
this is so coool
When I look at the resolution at RUclips it doesn't say any fps, just 8k, which still is very impressive, it would be cool also if it could go up to 120FPS
Amazing intro, great review! Have you guys looked at reviewing any of Edelkrones sliders and jibs. Having a hard time picking between Rhino and Edlekrone