What Is Considered An Indie Game Anyway?
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2024
- The term 'Indie' is so ambiguous these days. What do we consider an indie game and should we change our definition?
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I'm a bit of an extremist in this debate. I don't consider a game indie unless it is truly independent from publishers. I get games like Journey or the Devolver Digital published titles are artistically independent, but the label indie, to me, is just as much about the limitations of going alone as it is about the freedom. If you have a publisher, you're not indie-pendent from publishers, you're just yet another corporately backed project, regardless of team size and "feel", albeit with a lot more artistic freedom than a standard title developed in-house by someone like Ubisoft or EA. If we just let any small team or just style of game be considered indie, then indie game events and awards are just going to be conquered by the brute force of corporate capital, while truly independent artists are pushed back into obscurity.
I'm actually inclined to agree with this. The truly self published indie developer doesn't get nearly as much press as these large corporate "indie" titles that get put in the spotlight. The mainstream minds in the video game awards space do not currently think this way - which is a shame.
id make an exception for games developed by just one person even tho a publisher exist.
pretty much sometimes, the word "indie" just has a hollow meaning that is used in ways to manipulate the audience.
This whole debate has made me think that we need better definitions for the ranking of games (indie, AAA, AA, etc.) just like we need to take a closer look at the genre definitions. Like you alluded to, though, other mediums are also struggling with this so at least gaming isn't alone.
Indie and AAA are not mutually exclusive. For example, Star Citizen is a indie game, because the developer is independent from publishers. Star Citizen is also the largest AAA game, because of its massive budget.
This is a great video! Wish the games had labels but the narration was solid at picking at the discussion
Thank you! Great idea for the future we'll be sure to do that :)
There's a lot said about how indie studios are able to take more risks and be more creative, but that isn't really something they all do. Most games by small developers are derivative copies of other indie games the devs like. The ones that do well are usually creative because that's what people are looking for. Big studios do also take risks sometimes, they just make fewer games because there are fewer big studios. At this point the way people are using the word is meaningless. When someone says indie game they could mean any game not by EA/activision/blixzard/sony/ubisoft. I'm waiting for the day someone calls a Nintendo game indie because I know it's coming. By the definition people use, warioware "feels like an indie game" and I bet the teams working on it were comparable or smaller than dave the diver.
I totally agree! Basically right now it's Non-AAA = Indie. And great observation on the Nintendo angle, that day is coming soon.
Back in the days, by "indie" I imagined a solo devs. Nowadays all non AAA studios and teams mark themselves as indie, but they are dependent on each other.
I'm still salty about the Indie game of the year award given at the VGAs.
Yeah the category definitely needs a clear definition or a rework for the criteria
My personal definition is a small team - less than 10 people - with a small budget - less than $1M - whose existence revolves around the success of the game - the backing of a large company that ensures they have a job regardless of the success is not that.
I realize that my def pretty much cuts off 95% of "Indie games" but that is what I'd say that is.
I was looking for a little more commentary/op-ed than just a rundown of the current state, but I'm new to this channel, so that's on me :) To your point, I think books & film solved this with publisher imprints (books) and studio subsidiary-labels (movies). Experimental content, either developed in-house, or discovered via contests, festivals, etc, could receive the backing of major corporations, and build a brand-rep for unique & interesting content. But it could still be distinguished from actual independent artists (self-published authors & self-distributed filmmakers) for the sake of awards and people looking for genuinely low/no-budget fare.
Now, you could argue that it hasn't entirely worked out for movies - there are a ton of "arthouse" labels that are really just a front for the major 4-5 media conglomerates. And even with self-publishing being easier than ever, across all media, it's still true that marketing is what really sells, and more cash = more eyeballs.
So it's never really a "fair fight" in that sense - the indie games that people know/talk about are publisher-backed 98% of the time, because without that, the audience will likely never even know about you. Even getting streamers is difficult without explicitly seeking them out, and sometimes paying for their time.
you want a tough question now? try to find at what point do games stop being indies and become double A games, is hades even an indie because super giant games was AA size even when they first started working on it. The creators of don't starve, Klei could be considered AA as well, would be really interesting to see of a video on this
the different is the size of the studio aka how many people are working on it which is usually small AND if they are not connected to a triple A studio.
Which is a good definition, though by that No Mans Sky is not an indie game, because they had the backing of Sony.
I always thought that indie games were/are self published, that is what makes them independent. I wouldn't call Journey a indie game, rather an experimental art game, because its connection to Sony.
That's definitely how we should be leveraging the Indie Category. But that's not how mainstream games media and coverage views it.
i agree especially if we're talking about self published games like farming simulator and games like that
i'd never heard of you, but this was a solid video, and opinion piece. keep it up, i'll def check back.
Thank you so much! Yeah got more great content in the future. Appreciate the comment!
Indie. Independent. Free of outside control. A game that had no outside influence.
A big game studio (blizzard etc.) can be considered to be sectioned into the game development department and monetisation department. A mediocre game studio can have publishers such as Snail Games or Sony, both of which don't bask in popularity.
Independent gamestudio is something that while benefits from their game monetarily, doesn't bend to the will of those who want more profits, often at the expense of the game itself..
Gaming nowadays really meeds something risky besides your br or extraction shooters etc.
Nice video.
Very true, we do review a lot of interesting titles on our podcast you can check it out anywhere you get podcasts :)
personally i consider a game "indie" when the devs own the game. So even if a giant studio helped with the development, they only made the game possible
what is the santa pogo game at 5:10?
I personally feel the term indie has moved towards independent design or thought, rather than monetary or publishing independence. It's a game made free of current trends or demands of the corporate side of the industry and allowed to be experimental. It doesn't require the team be truly without a backer, because that, to me, feels exclusionary, and also ignores the fact that many indie studios crowd fund their projects and end up with far more initial funding than a smaller studio within a corporation might. This mindset can also lead to confusion with the discussed indie look of a game - The eye test. If two studios make very similar indie style games with very similar presentation, art direction, and vibe, but then because one of those studios is backed by a major company we say their game doesn't count, how does that make sense? Two nearly identical games, but one isn't indie because the parent studio had too much money? And if an indie studio makes it big and becomes a major game studio, do their previous works lose indie status? Older gamers may recall that iD, Epic, and Bungie all started as indie studios and are now major game developers.
Interesting talk
Ever since Stray was nominated as an indie game in 2023's game awards, I've thought about this myself.
I think the essence of an Indie game is that it's some dude in his house by himself breaking himself in half to make something he can himself enjoy. The limit of it to me is 7 people at most and in total, any more and it's just not an indie team.
If you have a publisher it's also not Indie, but at the same time I also think Indie is also a sort of spirit, a mentality, a way of thinking, even.
Devs like Wube Software and publishers like New Blood Interactive definitely seem to have a massive Indie-like spirit among them
Stray isn't an indie dev team though. The dev is BlueTwelve Studio, and it was published by Annapurna which is a massive company.
Though it's a bit of a contentious aspect, I also think the idea of realistic artstyle is antithetical to being indie. The idea is that the graphics should have charm, character, and soul put into them, as a result, they should look like Darkest Dungeon, FlipWitch, Hollow Knight, Xeno Command, AI War, Ultrakill, Legion TD2, Wyrmsun, Terraria, Noita, Demonstar - Original Missions. High res graphics games that don't Entirely bug me are (not all or nearly none of them are indie but are still fun all the same: Starship Troopers: Extermination, The Riftbreaker (tho the volumetric lighting sucks bigtime), No Man's Sky, Desynced, Meet your Maker (you know, after desaturating the bright green colors via ReShade because I have Chromaphobia with it), and Metal: Hellsinger. Just among those I've played ofcourse.
But more specifically, when it comes to indie, I think the idea is that it has to be an actual game, so walking simulators like Firewatch, and visual novels in general can't be considered Indie games. I'll accept Indie Movies or Indie Books for each respective example as appropriate.
Himaru Nikamura?
What are your thoughts on big streamers such as Dr Disrespect creating his own BR or VideoGameDunky creating his own indie studio? Do you think this is good or bad for the future of indie gaming?
Not against it at all. The ecosystem can (and should) support an elephant and an ant. And honestly the more competition the better. I just hope that these games don’t get millions poured into them and win best indie title over a 1-3 person team doing the same level of innovation for games
Indie and AAA are not mutually exclusive. For example, Star Citizen is an indie game, because the developer is independent from publishers. Star Citizen is also the largest AAA game, because of its massive budget.
132 subs isnt enough dude really interesting video dude
Yo thank you! Hoping to grow more soon. Appreciate the comment, sub and like! Let me know what topics you'd like in the future!
Single A game from an independent company.
I do not understand your perspective at all, the look-and-feel test seems completely bogus, and like a great way to let financially dependent products, the creators of which answer to the largest publishers out there, made by an unenumerated collection of professionals working under a corporation, compete against literal bedroom programmers for the same accolades.
My point is that "indie" has become such an ambiguous term that at this point people just go off the "look-and-feel" eye test. My point is that "indie" has become synonymous with "alternative" This isn't just my perspective it's clearly the perspective of huge institutions like The Game Awards as stated in the video. Join the discord thank you discord.gg/gNWyxBbx
@tfppodcasts That makes sense. I suppose I'm mad at institutions like The Game Awards for their organizer proclaiming "independent can mean different things to different people and it's sort of a broad term, right?" It's become an ambiguous term even though it has a specific meaning because of people like him and that makes me mad. I'm mad at everyone who holds and accepts this change of meaning, and that includes TGA and the general (gaming) public, and I'm taking it out in a heavy-browed, surly, sarcastic comment directed vaguely in your direction. Sorry, I was mad butthurt.
triple i doesn't exist. thats called a double a game and that term has been around for years and was incredibly common during the ps2 era. There is no interpretation. if your project has been funded by a publisher you are not an indie. Dave the diver is not indie.
Indie = game made to express authors feelings and ideas. Non-indie = game made to make money, usually by exploiting the masculine animalistic instincts, such as the crave for a power trip full violent or erotic content.
underrated as shit
Wait what are you referring to? Hollow Knight?
@@tfppodcasts no that's a compliment