Sol is strong. Sol is Top tier. Not really up for debate at this point. This isn't a video to call for nerfs though, but rather a look at some of the many things that makes Sol such a strong character. In the case of many top tiers in many fighting games, its hardly the one thing that makes them strong, but a combination of many different things, so lets talk about it!
I'm a Ram main so I get being hated. I can tell you having the Dauro loop was rightly taken out. Advancing normals, a three frame kick that hits twice and leads into 70% easily, a dragon punch, essentially a hard to punish air dash in bandit revolver, vortex, I mean, how much do you need to see until nerfing the character is the "right" thing to do? Having a character that you literally cannot develop counter strategies for of the definition of broken. May is strong. Chipp is strong. Sol is just flat out ridiculous. What's the point of playing anyone but Sol when there's Sol?
It’s actually really funny because most top tier characters still have a little minor weakness in there, but they couldn’t even bother making up a fake one for him lmao
@@mikairu2944 Used to have "weak at mid and far range" as a weakness, but people decided that if your character has an absurd amount of approach tools that are hard to react to and all lead to stupid high damage then it doesn't really matter if you're bad at long range
@@Wazzen563 maybe you can be forgiven for only playing Sol and not having to know how the game works, but generally ALL moves in this game are balanced by having "insanely long recovery and/or startup". Generally, slow startup moves lead to advantage, and fast startup moves have punishable recovery. Sol is the same as every other character when it comes to this -- it's not really a weakness when it's something almost the entire cast has.
Thats nonsense though. Sol is not Sol's worst matchup. His worst matchups revolve around people with strong space controlling options when he gets close. MIrrors just feel bad because its alot about button timing, as your frames are identical. Id say the actual hardest sol matchups are nago/Chipp/May/I-NO due to stroke going under almost everything, and having a safe variant. In fact anyone with those options that space out of range of 5K are very good vs sol when used well. Bonus points if you are a small character like may/chipp/i-no and you can straight crouch under 5k, making f.S the only punish which turns out to be too slow for alot of punishes that space that way. Sol does very well at the button mashing teirs, and slash VV/6S will need some frame adjustment or range changes, but sol is disproportionately strong in lower teirs. Id say nago and may at high teirs are EXTREMELY viable, and after a couple of sol adjustments could come out being stronger after said patch. If you are losing to f.S spam it has to do more with your RPS choices/Options and how you react. I dont think f.S alone is really as bad as low level players think it is. Same with 5k. Sol had an even longer reaching 5k in both other titles, and it was his 2D people complained about more. Honestly this game just had crazy dmg, so any confirm is insanely rewarding for 5k can feel bad to get hit by, but its the same its always been since +R. His strength comes from 6S range and frame data(and the risc it generates as well), the safety of slash VV, and the dmg from successfully hitting strong Clean Hit HSlash VV combos. Im not sure CH VV needs to be changes much, with changes to his other aspects hell fall in line easily. Nago/Chipp though are downplayed to an almost comical extent, especially at higher teirs where they are insanely effective. I think there is alot of noise about sol drowning out the actual thoughts of good players.
@@j4kfr05t5 I dont have any questions, as you clearly arent even in a discussion, or base your opinions on anything substantial just your emotions, as you have now clearly indicated. Sol is very fucking strong, but saying dumb shit like Sol is Sol's only bad matchup just kinda makes you look silly as fuck. You do you. Just dont let losing to sol in the future once hes adjusted crush you too much. You obviously arent putting in an effort to learn the matchup/how to deal with his options, so youll struggle vs him now and after if you parrot generic statements rather than exploring the matchup/character yourself.
@@AnthonyC90 I'm not going to get into an argument with you about Sol, we know he's literally the best character in the game RN by a shittonne,, so much so that if he wasn't in the game nobody would be able to fill his spot on how good of a character he is, and you saying I-No, who's worst matchup in the entire game is Sol, is *his* worst matchup literally tells me you have nothing worth listening to. Have a good day. And by the by, since I'm on the subject, I beat most Sols that I encounter, in heaven or in parks, you can check my stats ingame if you want, call me if it gets you all worked up so we can go through another youtube comment rumble, FG g0d, lol.
@@j4kfr05t5 If you dont understand how i-no has a great interaction with alot of Sol options you should look in the mirror on your own points here, since that fact makes you seem a bit clueless(Stroke the big tree might be the single best anti sol move in the game vs generic sol bullshit). Nago is very close to sol already. Im guessing with the way you are spouting this stuff you play around floor 6-8. Not to mention you are taking global matchup stats across all levels in a 2 month game as LAW which seems silly. If you put more time into learning the matchup, and had less scape-goats i bet you would not feel this way. Just your mentality in the last couple responses though show me you are not doing that, and venting is fine, but you will still struggle with Sol after he is adjusted if you keep this mentality. No one said sol isnt the strongest character, but Sol is NOT sol's worst matchup, and he is no where near as ahead of the #2/3/4 as people make it out to be. Likely due to most people complaining are mid/low teir where a character that can mash easily(doesnt help that most mid tier players dont critically think about matchups in general) like sol SEEM lightyears above others, instead of just being a few adjustments out of line.
Also from the news vid from the other day about the DLC trailer. In case you didn't catch the update arcsys said the special sale for season pass 1... "woops" there will be no sale. No idea why they said it in part of such a big announcement, but thems the breaks.
I think the reason why I can get salty against Sol is because I wish my character had as many tools or fun / easy combo routes for huge damage and setups. I'm learning more stuff about Axl and especially Potemkin. But I get salty as to how much easier it is to get there with Sol.
What pisses me off is that he has the best version of all tools and no drawbacks. Best fast normal in 5K, insane midrange 6S, goes over mids with vortex, has a broken DP, and armored command grab, a regular command grab, a plus normal that moves him forward with a GREAT hitbox, highest damage in the game, low profile dash and 2D, he just has everything, and usually the best version of it.
Don’t let hook gang god down play Faust to the point you won’t play him, if you know who that is. If you put in the time in effort you can still win you just have to like the character. Plus it’s a game, play who you want and have fun that’s what it’s about.
Play who you like, at the end of the day better players are better regardless of character choice. Just play whats fun. Its not like switching to sol results in you moving up floors(and if you do its likely because it suits your playstyle, or you are enjoying it enough to put more work in), youll still have to put work in to learn matchups etc. If top level tourny players arent all switching to sol its obviously not as much of a factor as the play itself when it comes to doing well. Ive played sol since +R and this is the first time hes been considered top tier. His kit and combo routes were interesting to me so ill just play him regardless. Same reason ive been playing gold lewis. He has alot of hard matchups but i enjoy him so who cares.
Its always been fun. Not what is causing his strength atm imo, but its a great button. He has had the same thing since +R. And in +R 2D is considered much more dangerous. So yea idk if its as good as people make it out to be. Its just a facet of the Sol kit that has always existed. 6S and slash VV on the other hand seem to be on the too strong side of the line.
@@AnthonyC90 no for sure. i dont think its the button that makes him busted. i think just overall he is good. i main sol haha. so im all for him being strong and i have played him long before stive. in strive honestly i think 6S and his recovery on normal f5S mixed with his ability to confirm into multiple combo routes to create a massive amount of damage is what makes him so strong.
@@sep_vs_theworld Yea, as you get higher up you find that f.S is just a new skin on older games 2S which was the same thing. Everyone has their plus routes, his just manifest easier at lower levels where people mash alot cause its just a 5S. Slash VV(his slash DP) recov is bonkers and will be nerfed imo, 6S will see some change. Idk if much else is needed. Clean hit damage for heavy VV might get changed, but honestly i think his dmg is more to do with the RISC values on things like f.S and 6S and i expect to see him generate less Risc after a balance patch. With less risc i dont think Clean hit will need much change but who knows what they decide. Sol is clearly a low tier menace, but its hard to justify over nerfing a character because people havnt learned/ or dont care to learn the ins and outs of the matchup. We will see how it goes.
When the game itself has a constant reminder that "SOL BADGUY HAS THE MOST WINS IN THE ENTIRE GAME WITHIN THE RANKED TOWER", it's kind of a call to nerf. Education my foot - the game is advertising that I'm a feckin' idiot for not picking and learning Sol.
I wouldnt say gim have the most tower wins is really the key indicator While tier lists and popularity somewhat correlate Assuming his wins is the lynchpun ignores that -hes genuinely fun to pmay -hes a shoto, meaning almost every player has him or ky as a pocket -hes easy to get into for beginners and rewarding for experienced players -he is bawically mister guilty gear himself -------- He has a lot of shit going fir hum to be popular other than him being op
In the slightest bit of fairness, that ToD required a counter-hit and 2 or 3 Tiger Knee'd DPs that are as close to frame perfect as you could get in Strive. But then scratch that "to be fair," because doing a far easier version of that kind of combo that scaled harder still did 80%.
Keep in mind it's not like Sol makes the game unplayable or something like that, players like Nage can DESTROY people in tournaments and he plays Faust which is considered bottom 3.
Sol has one of if not the best move in every move category in the game. Even unique moves that most of the cast don't have. I'd say his dp is tied with Leo's for best because of how ridiculously fast S viper recovers it's almost impossible to punish unless you blocked it right in his face, and clean hit H dp has just straight up broken damage. His command grab is the only move I can think of that's not basically guaranteed top 3 in the game. Even his health is top 3 in the game. In my opinion I'd say it's great to have an all arounder. Jack of all trades is a staple of fighting game archetypes, it's like having an automatic counter pick built into your character. the broken part is the fact that his moves aren't just decent in their categories they're, at worst, top 3.
you can tell that rooflemonger himself was getting surprised at how much shit Sol can do. Thankfully, since I'm playing Faust, I'm well equipped to fight against him.
Sol is undoubtedly the best character in Strive. He has good defense, a fuckton of options, high damage, good frame data, good range on his attacks. The only thing he lacks is meterless high/low mixup, but it's not like that helps you much. Chipp, Millia, Zato, Faust... they all have meterless high/low mixup, but Chipp can't get anything off it without meter, Zato needs Eddie out as he lands the overhead or RC to get anything, Millia needs a hard knockdown and hope their opponent doesn't fuzzy block her pressure, and Faust needs to land a command grab. So even if you do have the one thing Sol doesn't have, you still have need something else in order to use it effectively. Sol on the other hand can just f.S you all day and it's essentially a 50/50 in which you either mash for extremely low reward or he cancels into 5H and counter hits you for about a third of your health. Continuing to block is not an option; you can not use Faultless Defense to push him away without it also being a Instant Block which is a mere TWO FRAME WINDOW. You are forced to make a guess. If you guess right, you get maybe 40 damage on Sol as opposed to his 150+ damage on your wrong guess. He doesn't need high/low mixup because what he has is so much easier to accomplish and gets so much more reward for so much less than everyone else. If I want mixup, why play a character like Zato who is infamous for his execution barrier, has no defensive options, low health, needs to manage a resource and has ass-tier frame data but has meterless high/low mixup when I can play Sol and just press one button for a low risk, high reward 50/50 that gives me a counter hit while having none of Zato's downsides?
i don't disagree with sol being top tier but the distance between him and the next top contenders is a lot shorter than people think or are willing to admit that being said, the difference in power between him and the bottom is big yikes
@@andrew9k424 The point being sol is a world apart from the rest of the cast. Period. No top tier is anywhere near as good as he is. If you lost with him it was cause you messed up, not him
Part of it is people not undersanding the RISK guage. They block a bit, torque it up, try something, and get multi counterhit erased. This has always been in GG but I swear RISK builds faster now.
I fear a smart Sol player, but the fact that the character is so good means that most Sol players are kinda lazy, with limited imagination and short tempers. I know that the gap between Floor 9 and Celestial is actually pretty big-but in my limited experience as a Faust main on Floor 9, you can walk circles around your average Sol Badguy if you stay patient, block, and avoid getting predictable on your turn.
Sucks playing Potemkin, who doesn't have but a few things he can do and even then, if you get the mixup part going? Sol's a fucking psychic and will guess correctly.
It's funny because Sol himself is very lazy in his fights and only puts in the bare minimum to win. And he prefers being more of a brute force wrecking ball than a tactician. So really those Sol players are just keeping him in character. 😄
@@metalgamer8179 most Potemkins do very well against my chipp. They seem to be really good at anti airing and keeping their pressure up so that I can’t do anything without risking 20% of his health. Granted I’m pretty trash with chipp seeing as I barely made it to the 8th floor with much more Ls than Ws so take my viewpoint with a grain of salt
Yea not to mention sol is disproportionately strong the lower teir you are. Means alot of very average players have an idea that sol is unbeatably strong. In reality he is just the strongest top tier by a few combined elements that will be adjusted in the first balance patch very likely. Most people shouting that he is unbeatable will likely still struggle with Sol after some balance, since they have been scape-goating their struggles rather than doing what they can with the matchup infront of them.
One thing a lot of people seem to miss is his recovery frames as well. Take a look at f.S recovery and compare it to similar moves around the cast and you'll notice it recovers in about 2/3rds the time on whiff (13 frames compared to the average 19) , which is part of what allows it to be spammed so much in neutral, as even on whiff you can get another button out before the person can react to punish or take their turn or to get a 6P out to anti air that person that jumped over your f.S
I think how much his moves blow up the RISC meter deserves a specific point. You mentioned it here and there but personally I think it's one of his main issues. The RISC generation, clean hit DP damage, and 3 frame 5K are his biggest offenders right now IMO. If the man presses 4 buttons while you're blocking and manages to land literally anything, you're just dead because you're at like 3/4 RISC. His clean hit DP is basically a super and can be easily combo'd into from 6P at basically any part of a wall combo. Example: crank RISC gauge, land corner hit into 5H, pick a special (they basically all corner combo), land 5K into 6P, heavy DP for wall splat, Tyrant Rave, RIP. Even if they changed Sol's 5K to 5 frames, it would still be the fastest 5K in the game (Axl Chipp and Gio have 6 frame 5Ks, everyone else has 7 or more). I am hopeful for this upcoming patch and whatever balance changes it might bring.
As stupid as this might sound, I'd like to see they buff other characters to as strong as this instead of just nerf the top tier like most games do. The thing I like about Sol is he has a lot of freedom, so I can do a lot of stuffs and being creative when fighting with him, and I would like to see more of this on other characters.
I don’t agree If you buff a lot of characters in a quite balanced game like strive all the cast end up having similar options, making their playstyles more similar
Honestly if they did some minor Tweeks on Sol, and so decent buffs on everyone else this could work. Because Sol doesn't need his Kara cancels at all to be good imo. His kick could be made 4 frames and his 6S more punishable on whiff, and 5S could be +1 or Zero on block, he'd still be the best character but not broken
@@guillermoolivan610 I think it's possible for a character to be strong while still having a unique kit. Just use what they already have and make it more effective is also a way of balancing.
@@thanatosignis5702 f.S isnt the issue, 5k isnt the issue. 6S, Slash VV is kinda the problem atm. If you watch high teir matchups vs sol no one is struggling with f.S really. If you are its more indicative of struggling with frame trapping/Staggering in general. In other GG's like +R and Xrd 2S had very similar frame data, and could gatling into even more stuff so im skeptical that f.S really needs too much changed. 5k was also very similar, even hitting smaller characters a bit farther at full extend(the 5F part of it) and 2D was considered the scary normal in those games. I agree that 6S is too strong and i think slash VV recovery has to be nerfed for sure.
To expand on the damage point, most of Sol's optimal combos incorporate his Clean Hit H DP which involves landing his DP as close as possible for a damage bonus as many times as possible. The damage he gets with Clean hit DP is in general absolutely absurd (it does 114 damage unscaled on Ky, and that damage tends to be unscaled due to how easily Sol can crank the Risc gauge up), allowing him to kill most characters in the game off of 1 good hit with relative ease
@CJ2 @CJ2 relative ease as in most sol matches that I've seen have the opponent utterly explode if he gets a hit. Most of his optimal combos incorporate at least 1 H DP into the mix, sometimes more. As for the no Sols in competitive... most tournaments that I've seen have had at least 1 Sol player reach top 8, usually more than that, and that doesn't even account for the Sol players who don't get that far. The only tournament I've seen that didn't see a single Sol in was DreamHack
We all knew Sol was op from the start but people thought we could find some ways to counter or play around him with some time and practice. But its actually the opposite, now that Sol's players have fully mastered his kit, it became obnoxious, he got everything as you said, (you didnt even mention his DP). Even if you are not calling for a nerf, I think its now clear for everyone that he need one. It was the main topic this week in the GGS comunity, and a large majority agree that he need a nerf for the sake of this game, even Sol's players themself agree about that.
Are you talking about the GGST Community Discord, I'm on there and I'm a Sol main, yes this man needs a nerf lol, he needs a weakness like everyone else in the game
What's really baffling about Sol's plus frames is that he's a shameless exception to a pattern that virtually every *other* character follows consistently, where plus frames are tied to moves with a notable gap in them. If Sol actually followed the same formula, his plus frames would probably be tied to Bandit Bringer, but instead he gets to make like a bandit and slap that oppression onto one of his most common buttons.
I mean thats not really true. And Sol always had a move with that frame data. 2S in +R and Xrd had the same data as his f.S in this game. And his f.S in those games was more like his 6S for some background. I think you are talking about guard breaks, which sol follows that formula also. Strive guard breaks are usually react-able to some degree.
@@AnthonyC90 You haven't really addressed my actual point. I'm talking about how Strive Sol is an exception to how Strive treats its other characters, not how Strive Sol compares to his own previous versions. Very few moves in Strive are plus on block, and typically they're special moves with slow startups or some other gap that make them vulnerable to interruption. May's HS Dolphin, I-No's HS Big Tree, Axl's feinting chain swipe, almost no one has plus frames on their actual normals. Not only is Sol an exception to this, he gets plus frames on both close and far versions of S, already one of his most common buttons. I point it out not because it bugs me in itself, but because no one else in Strive gets that same treatment. Strive, not +R, and not Xrd.
@@BloodSportA2 Sol in +R had a normal 2S with the same frame data as f.S so its not really a new thing at all. There are plus on block specials and normals, and command normals in strive that fit in to kits in different ways, but there is pressure built around all of it in a very similar way. Some characters like Nago have normals that are not plus frames on paper, but with spacing after block, and his interactions they become unpunishable and essentially still his turn. May has a similar effect, as does GIO. Infact Gio has 2 + pressure enders, while sols +frame is the opening stagger. Both are better in different ways, but as i said f.S is really not the big bad issue people think it is. 6S/Slash VV and the amount of risc he builds on people is really the culprit imo. The only thing really diff for Sol is that f.S is the +frame attack rather than 2S. Otherwise sol is actually very similar to +R/Xrd Sol. Its the change in damage and alot of the other things about sol that makes him top tier not f.S standalone really. Watch some high tier players fight sol and i think youll see that f.S isnt really the pillar he stands on. Its more of a low level crutch IMO.
Another quick point. Your example of having a + move into a gatling is kinda looking at it the wrong way. Every stagger that isnt absurdly unsafe is a frametrap, as it can be staggered safely to catch buttons. Sol has a bit more breathing space in his main gatling from that, but also lacks any other mixup besides strike/Throw(and of course staggering block strings/cancels of all kinds like any FG character). f.S is just kinda a watershed for complaints, but really not even the crazy thing about him.
@@AnthonyC90 Except I didn’t say it was what made Sol a menace, I said it was an odd(and maybe irritating) exception to an otherwise consistent pattern Strive’s other characters follow. You haven’t even really disagreed with that, you just reframed the point to include bits that *I* don’t really disagree with.
Yea i think reducing the Risc on some of his normals will go a long way to adjusting him. I dont think frame data on f.S needs to be touched too much, or 5k. 6S and slash VV need some changes to frame data, but 6S especially and some other normals should create less Risc on block, and then his dmg wont seem so high on a touch.
Missed out on several things that make him broken, for example: jD wallbounce enables for the easiest and most damaging air confirms in the game S DP being what it is, a literal RPS on whiff at midrange Clean hit H DP enabling some of the most outrageous damage in the game (a move which is otherwise completely useless because S DP does all it does and better as a reversal), while also being stupidly easy to achieve jH having no recovery and hitting extremely low making it very, very hard to punish when he is on top of you Bandit Bringer having a ridiculously thick hitbox that WILL cross you up if you try to run under it, helping him space it so it is pretty much unpunishable on block Did not mention the oppresive disjoint on 6S which also hits so low to the ground that it WILL blow you up for trying to contest it with 6p The natural frametrap that will clip jumps from 5h gunflame in the corner which is a move you naturally want to jump out of And it keeps going.
important thing to note on night raid vortex: you can grab him out of it surprisingly easily, though being mentally ready to grab sol is a different story
Even if you only do one bar, the combo sends the Sol out of the corner and puts the other player quite close to the corner, where Sol is now in advantage.
@@blacksmithgames8739 the DP needs to clean hit to create corner OKI. Dont sit still if you get hit by a normal one. Remember you wake up very quickly in that case.
I don’t normally try to comment multiple times on the same video, but my other comment is discussing changes I’d like to see to the game (please ArcSys let the cast have freedom like Sol’s combos) and I want this comment to be more praise to you. I want as many people to see this video as possible simply for the ending alone (on top of all of the really good info you have in the rest of the video). I feel like it cannot be stressed enough how OPTIONS are the key to any fighting game top tier. I see people complain about a lot of characters, but Ramlethal is one I see people asking for nerfs a lot because of her range and her corner pressure. What I don’t understand, however, is why NOBODY looks at her weaknesses. She’s really scary if you’re stuck in the corner, but what if you aren’t stuck in the corner? This video is truly great because it breaks down WHY Sol is strong by pointing out all of the options he has. I ask anybody please before you start talking about nerfs and buffs to go to the Dustloop wiki and just compare moves. Not like frame data and range and all of that, but just read the properties of the moves. If you check out the general analysis of the characters, it will tell you whether or not a move wall bounces, if it causes any special state upon landing, etc. and you’ll immediately realize why Sol has so much freedom. The man has a unique property on most of his moves I swear lol. Anyway, this is an amazing video that truly breaks down what it means to be a top tier in ways that I hope can dispel some negative feelings about other characters, and maybe the community will start asking for every character to have more freedom.
Have to say after playing Potemkin in Celestial for a while, Sol and Ram are fun to play against despite their top tier status. However I'm having a huge problem dealing with May.
A lot of people are so shook by Sol that if you mention any form of counterplay against him, they call you a down player. Also, I agree, Sol is one of those top tiers where they are more tolerable to fight
He can whiff fefnir, FS, bandit bringer and he still feels "plus" as he can press K and combo/pressure you again. It feels like non of his moves have recovery. Thus it's so difficult to whiff punish anything he does. This is why I feel he's broken as a Gio player as he can whiff one button and press another button and I get punished for trying to whiff punish him. He puts me in a guessing game for whiffing, it's insane. Same for his light dp, such a small recovery that if you miss the punish window he can just dp again. I think he needs a big nerf
Didn't even mention the inexplicable disjointed hit box on his 6s. Sol just gets weird benefits that don't seem at all justified for the kind of character he is.
Yo forgot 1 thing, bandit bringer, it's a move that's -2 yes on a normal character it would be punishable if you react accordingly and would require red roman cancel to be safe. But Sol is a character with a 3f normal and bandit bringer leaves him at perfect range for a 3K
Wouldn't it be great if, instead of nerfing Sol, they just made everyone as versatile as him? Maybe tweaked the damage down ever so slightly, but allowed everyone to have these super expressive, anything goes combo routes? Side note, if you delay Sol's close slash to far slash you leave the opponent standing, which means you can link into your 3 frame kick, then forward slash, then 236K, then literally do anything with a red roman cancel! The only other character that I've found with satisfying combos is Leo with his stance switch mechanic. Everyone else it feels like you're playing with boxing gloves, you'll press buttons that feel like they should link together but nothing happens. It's hard to explain. The thing is it almost feels like the cool combos these characters can do are unintentional - linking delayed slashes to kick for Sol only works because his kick is 3 frames, so it will probably be gone if / when they add frames to the startup, which will remove a whole branch of his combo tree, or the constant stance switching with dashes for Leo. It's really weird - their stated intention is to have a beginner friendly fighting game, but to any beginner just picking up the game and trying to press buttons, there's so many restrictions on what can be linked into from the previous button press that you'll usually only get a slash, slash, heavy slash combo (again, as a beginner just picking up the game). Pick up any other fighting game, and you can do some pretty cool stuff right off the bat - even notoriously "hard" games like Tekken have this visceral appeal of picking it up, pressing buttons, and seeing some pretty cool stuff happen. It feels like there's a really interesting game hiding just out of sight with Strive, and if they opened things up a bit we could have all this freedom for all the characters, rather than just Sol :)
You didn't mention that nearly every move in his moveset leads into a full combo. Meaning that to avoid taking massive damage you basically can't get touched by any stray hit because he can usually convert it into at least 30% damage without even using RC.
Yeah my friend who mind you doesnt properly know how to play sol that well makes mistakes every now and then and still manages to "improvise" by simply just doing anything else and it will still combo 30% of my health which is ridiculous
Yeah I’ve started seeing a ton of Sol on the floors and I just can’t stand to play against him any more :( I need to learn what to do against him when I’m blocking because I feel like he can take his turn and I’m too scared to get murdered in a single combo if I make one mistake :( I’m not calling for him to be nerfed into the ground. I think he needs a little less, but I want to see other characters get a lot more as well. He has so many moves that go into good combos. I think ideally I’d tone down his block pressure, give other characters more combo options like he has, and then universally nerf the damage output of the game just a bit to compensate. Sol feels great to play as because of how much freedom he gives you, and I DO NOT want that to change. I want everybody else to feel as free as him. He’s still kinda playing Xrd while we’re all stuck in Strive.
@@dalodulo1373 Probably because Sol is a genuinely fun character to play and most people would rather other characters be brought up to a similar level of flow than have him brought down to other characters. Sol has a level of fluidity that most of the characters struggle to match.
@@ZuzuPazuzu When have they ever done that though? Seriously the only.game I can think of is dbfz and guess what....they nerfed things. Cause it needed to happen.
@@dalodulo1373 He is probably an Ino or Kai player upset that his character got downtuned from rev2. The modern mass appeal arcsys fighter has been born @Lugia2109 (FighterZ starting it).
Sol is vanilla SF4 Ryu. He has answers to everything and a lot of conversions into big damage, which is kind of problematic in a high damage game already.
I wish everyone else played more like this. Not the *exact* same mind you, but with a free flowing move structure. The closest character to that is Gio.
Sols standing K also hits while crouching opponents while chipps jab will whiff Also I’m pretty sure that sol can RC a blocked Fafnir into a combo. Like even if fafnir is blocked, RRC will pop them up to get a combo
Mr Ishiwatari couldn't help himself and gave all kindz of good stuff to his golden boy. I'm still winning most of the times when I meet a Sol player 'cuz the majority are just pressing buttons and hope for the best.
Imma drop the tech rn. Dash macro into Kara gun flame instantly will hit full screen and is plus on block leaving you touching them. Also its a combo starter
Ion want crazy nerfs per se cause just making a strong character to nerf him seems annoying :p so maybe some small stuff that’ll go a decent way like reducing the distance on the 3f part of 5k by a lot, increasing scaling on light buttons and more pushback/less advance on fS. So he still gets to virtually do everything but more situational/less reward
i love fighting sol players because it feels like there's never much cheese, there's only so many ways he can mix his main gatling combo and you can react decently to his DP, his damage sure as hell needs tuning though
I really hope they give every other character as many options as sol. The part of him that’s so fun to play is that he’s so free form and expressive. That’s basically how the older ggs worked since everybody’s kit was so fleshed out that very often two people who main the same character would play entirely differently. This is coming from an i-no player.
I'll admit I had trouble with Sol, so I had to hit the lab to really figure out how to deal with his shit. One thing for example is that I had trouble dealing with his Gunflame pressure in the corner with Potemkin being so wide, till I learned that where FD comes in handy. In the end, no matter how powerful a character is, it's better to learn the match up, than to cry for nerfs. If I may request, I think a follow up analysis video on certain low tier characters on what makes them bad, and what could make them better would also be great for us to see! ^^
Very good mindset, alot of people can learn from you my man. There are a ton of people scape-goating losing to Sol, when the character itself pales in comparison to the lack of matchup knowledge/execution the player has themselves. There is going to be alot of very frustrated people once sol gets adjusted, that still lose to sol because they actually never learned how to fight the matchup.
Fastest attack on Anji is 8 frames and only a single one of his buttons is + frames, and that move is avoidable and/or interruptable for a counterhit combo.
you didnt even talk about how his win neutral button (far slash) moves him forward on top of being plus. so even by blocking it or especially tension blocking it you are being forced to corner.
Aye man, only character I couldnt find a 252 combo for 50 bar in a couple mins were millia and ino, sol just gets the damage in more situations than some others
Kinda lucked out as a Nago player. Despite everything the Sol matchup actually is pretty even imo. Sol wins up close but Nago dominates at range, and Nago might be the one character that can hang with Sol's damage output. Struggle a lot more with Ram and Chipp
Nago is my #2/3 with Chipp and may close behind. I honestly thing after the first balance patch Nago is going to be king of the roost. This game has alot more lower tier players than a PC FGC game has had in a long time, so people are very loud about Sol. This kind of takes the cross hair off of really viable characters not far behind him(May/Nago/Chipp even Potempkin to an extent who i think isnt far behind those 3).
Fully agree that sol is busted, but one thing: wild throw is absolutely not a good command grab. Compared to normal throw, it's only +7 on hit, you don't get anything from rcing it besides 6h otg, forces sideswitch and it only does slightly more damage. You rather opt to use normal throw instead of wild throw in most situations.
Im literally beating people just by spamming nothing but his slash button and dashing and grabbing. Literally, and I am on 9f, absolute no knowledge of how to play Sol lmao.
My main problem (And honestly my ONLY problem) with Sol is that Clean Hit HS Volcanic Viper does WAYYYY too much fucking damage and opens up ToDs that otherwise would not exist. The fact that nS into Clean Hit H DP does like 45+% with ANY amount of RISC is honestly unacceptable. I KNOW that a LOT of these combos are TECHNICALLY neta combos, but with a LOT of these high level Sol players that delete your health bar, there's one common denominator in the combos they're doing that kills. That's Clean Hit H DP hitting 2-4 times in a combo that represents most of the damage in the combo. If this move's damage would just get adjusted already, Sol would be fine in my view without killing him off.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Sol is strong. Sol is Top tier. Not really up for debate at this point. This isn't a video to call for nerfs though, but rather a look at some of the many things that makes Sol such a strong character. In the case of many top tiers in many fighting games, its hardly the one thing that makes them strong, but a combination of many different things, so lets talk about it!
I'm a Ram main so I get being hated. I can tell you having the Dauro loop was rightly taken out. Advancing normals, a three frame kick that hits twice and leads into 70% easily, a dragon punch, essentially a hard to punish air dash in bandit revolver, vortex, I mean, how much do you need to see until nerfing the character is the "right" thing to do? Having a character that you literally cannot develop counter strategies for of the definition of broken. May is strong. Chipp is strong. Sol is just flat out ridiculous. What's the point of playing anyone but Sol when there's Sol?
Don't worry, I'll call for nerfs in your stead.
@@juice6521 I already got a petition, let me link you:
I know Millia can do 2366H to do a microdash h disc (a really small microdash). Sadly, this move has no uses from what I know.
Is this a Kara cancel?
@The storm that is approaching T O T S U G E K I
His belt said "Free" so they gave him no restrictions.
or basically him telling his opponent "Oh you wanna fight me? YOU FREE"
🤣🤣🤣🤣 op infinite level
Daisuke had to let us know this was his vision
@The storm that is approaching also hoping for slight buffs
It's because everybody is free against Sol
the anatomy of a top tier in Guilty Gear is actually very simple. The more belts they have, the higher they are on the tier list.
goldlewis has at least 10 belt buckles on him so he's gonna be very powerful then
Actually that's... Scarily accurate
What about chipp? Does his giant rope count as multiple belts?
@@KingJinzo2125 yup
I just love how on the dust loop wiki in the cons section it just says Sol has no known weaknesses
Lmao it didnt use to say that, I forgot what it was but he did have 1 weakness there, maybe it was a minor one.
It’s actually really funny because most top tier characters still have a little minor weakness in there, but they couldn’t even bother making up a fake one for him lmao
@@mikairu2944 Used to have "weak at mid and far range" as a weakness, but people decided that if your character has an absurd amount of approach tools that are hard to react to and all lead to stupid high damage then it doesn't really matter if you're bad at long range
@@Wazzen563 how to downplay Sol 101.
@@Wazzen563 maybe you can be forgiven for only playing Sol and not having to know how the game works, but generally ALL moves in this game are balanced by having "insanely long recovery and/or startup". Generally, slow startup moves lead to advantage, and fast startup moves have punishable recovery. Sol is the same as every other character when it comes to this -- it's not really a weakness when it's something almost the entire cast has.
"Lots of characters have plus frames, lots of characters have reversals, lots of characters have command grabs"
*nods in Anji*
Yes our plus 1 fan toss is very nice. Until they jump....or 5k...or mega fist...or dp. You know what never mind
@@dalodulo1373 or press any button because Anji has below average speed normals...
@@thegoose8663 ^^^^
@@dalodulo1373 It's kinda usefull in the corner where 5k is reaching... but still pretty meh.
Tbh Anji's best strength is that no one plays him so no one has matchup experience against him lol
Ky Kiske: I have your Dragon Install
Sol: lmao
sol IS the dragon install
@@markrobless6245 lol 😆
"I am dragon install"
They really need to buff his crazy. Unless I’m wrong, Ky is still basic as fuck from the beta.
Sol said "im not ryu. this is my game"
Ryu was like the 2nd best character at the start of SFV. He got nerfed a lot though.
The fact that Sol is Sol's worst matchup is hilarious to me lol
Thats nonsense though. Sol is not Sol's worst matchup. His worst matchups revolve around people with strong space controlling options when he gets close. MIrrors just feel bad because its alot about button timing, as your frames are identical. Id say the actual hardest sol matchups are nago/Chipp/May/I-NO due to stroke going under almost everything, and having a safe variant. In fact anyone with those options that space out of range of 5K are very good vs sol when used well. Bonus points if you are a small character like may/chipp/i-no and you can straight crouch under 5k, making f.S the only punish which turns out to be too slow for alot of punishes that space that way. Sol does very well at the button mashing teirs, and slash VV/6S will need some frame adjustment or range changes, but sol is disproportionately strong in lower teirs. Id say nago and may at high teirs are EXTREMELY viable, and after a couple of sol adjustments could come out being stronger after said patch.
If you are losing to f.S spam it has to do more with your RPS choices/Options and how you react. I dont think f.S alone is really as bad as low level players think it is. Same with 5k. Sol had an even longer reaching 5k in both other titles, and it was his 2D people complained about more. Honestly this game just had crazy dmg, so any confirm is insanely rewarding for 5k can feel bad to get hit by, but its the same its always been since +R. His strength comes from 6S range and frame data(and the risc it generates as well), the safety of slash VV, and the dmg from successfully hitting strong Clean Hit HSlash VV combos. Im not sure CH VV needs to be changes much, with changes to his other aspects hell fall in line easily. Nago/Chipp though are downplayed to an almost comical extent, especially at higher teirs where they are insanely effective. I think there is alot of noise about sol drowning out the actual thoughts of good players.
@@AnthonyC90 This is your brain on cope, any questions
@@j4kfr05t5 I dont have any questions, as you clearly arent even in a discussion, or base your opinions on anything substantial just your emotions, as you have now clearly indicated. Sol is very fucking strong, but saying dumb shit like Sol is Sol's only bad matchup just kinda makes you look silly as fuck.
You do you. Just dont let losing to sol in the future once hes adjusted crush you too much. You obviously arent putting in an effort to learn the matchup/how to deal with his options, so youll struggle vs him now and after if you parrot generic statements rather than exploring the matchup/character yourself.
@@AnthonyC90 I'm not going to get into an argument with you about Sol, we know he's literally the best character in the game RN by a shittonne,, so much so that if he wasn't in the game nobody would be able to fill his spot on how good of a character he is, and you saying I-No, who's worst matchup in the entire game is Sol, is *his* worst matchup literally tells me you have nothing worth listening to. Have a good day. And by the by, since I'm on the subject, I beat most Sols that I encounter, in heaven or in parks, you can check my stats ingame if you want, call me if it gets you all worked up so we can go through another youtube comment rumble, FG g0d, lol.
@@j4kfr05t5 If you dont understand how i-no has a great interaction with alot of Sol options you should look in the mirror on your own points here, since that fact makes you seem a bit clueless(Stroke the big tree might be the single best anti sol move in the game vs generic sol bullshit). Nago is very close to sol already. Im guessing with the way you are spouting this stuff you play around floor 6-8. Not to mention you are taking global matchup stats across all levels in a 2 month game as LAW which seems silly.
If you put more time into learning the matchup, and had less scape-goats i bet you would not feel this way. Just your mentality in the last couple responses though show me you are not doing that, and venting is fine, but you will still struggle with Sol after he is adjusted if you keep this mentality.
No one said sol isnt the strongest character, but Sol is NOT sol's worst matchup, and he is no where near as ahead of the #2/3/4 as people make it out to be. Likely due to most people complaining are mid/low teir where a character that can mash easily(doesnt help that most mid tier players dont critically think about matchups in general) like sol SEEM lightyears above others, instead of just being a few adjustments out of line.
"Whatever any character can do, ensure Sol does it better". -Daisuke
A proper discussion and breakdown of top tiers? That's like finding a unicorn
Also from the news vid from the other day about the DLC trailer. In case you didn't catch the update arcsys said the special sale for season pass 1... "woops" there will be no sale. No idea why they said it in part of such a big announcement, but thems the breaks.
Would be quite frustrating for deluxe preorder holders to see a sale before the first dlc comes out tho haha
@@goonya1077 this is how I felt lmao.
"Other characters you really have to work and think to get similar results".
Sol Gorilla confirmed.
*me a time traveler from the future*
"I forgot he was this good, its a shame they nerfed the hell out of him,"
Thanks to the butterfly effect, you have now stopped this from happening to the same degree, and started ww3
Now my boy Faust is the best
My boy Goldlewis counters him well, thank god.
@@roguewolf8545 sol getting buffed starts ww3
@@Aerie1405 to be specific he gets nerfed a small bit, before being buffed to be twice as broken as he was before.
Maining Ky and fighting Sol makes me feel like “damn I chose the wrong mascot”
The fact that he has a 3 frame 5k that is easy to hit confirm, gets you into combos that do huge damage, and is effective at anti-airing helps.
Canon. Power of protagonist
Ryu: *Cries in SFV*
Sol is the only REAL Guilty Gear character.
After all, Guilty Gear was always meant to be a single player beat'em up.
Hahahahahahah
Sol is definitely S tier in the game. He has everything you want in a character.
The S, stands for Sol.
I thought it stood for Slash which is what you'll be pressing most of the time
I think the reason why I can get salty against Sol is because I wish my character had as many tools or fun / easy combo routes for huge damage and setups. I'm learning more stuff about Axl and especially Potemkin. But I get salty as to how much easier it is to get there with Sol.
Imagine someone playing Faust like me
What pisses me off is that he has the best version of all tools and no drawbacks. Best fast normal in 5K, insane midrange 6S, goes over mids with vortex, has a broken DP, and armored command grab, a regular command grab, a plus normal that moves him forward with a GREAT hitbox, highest damage in the game, low profile dash and 2D, he just has everything, and usually the best version of it.
Jose Echevarria I play Faust too and how hard it’s to get damage with him compared to many other characters is just sad
You know you can just play him if you want
@@jakesteel90 Yeah I feel you. Even if he's supposed to be a midrange/Foostsiw with some zoning, his damage is pitiful
This video seriously makes me question my decision to main Faust.
Don’t let hook gang god down play Faust to the point you won’t play him, if you know who that is. If you put in the time in effort you can still win you just have to like the character. Plus it’s a game, play who you want and have fun that’s what it’s about.
Play who you like, at the end of the day better players are better regardless of character choice. Just play whats fun. Its not like switching to sol results in you moving up floors(and if you do its likely because it suits your playstyle, or you are enjoying it enough to put more work in), youll still have to put work in to learn matchups etc. If top level tourny players arent all switching to sol its obviously not as much of a factor as the play itself when it comes to doing well. Ive played sol since +R and this is the first time hes been considered top tier. His kit and combo routes were interesting to me so ill just play him regardless. Same reason ive been playing gold lewis. He has alot of hard matchups but i enjoy him so who cares.
"standing Kick of the gods"
accurate. that button is fun as hell.
The new Ragna 5B.
Sol's 5K is a series tradition.
Its always been fun. Not what is causing his strength atm imo, but its a great button. He has had the same thing since +R. And in +R 2D is considered much more dangerous. So yea idk if its as good as people make it out to be. Its just a facet of the Sol kit that has always existed. 6S and slash VV on the other hand seem to be on the too strong side of the line.
@@AnthonyC90 no for sure. i dont think its the button that makes him busted. i think just overall he is good. i main sol haha. so im all for him being strong and i have played him long before stive. in strive honestly i think 6S and his recovery on normal f5S mixed with his ability to confirm into multiple combo routes to create a massive amount of damage is what makes him so strong.
@@sep_vs_theworld Yea, as you get higher up you find that f.S is just a new skin on older games 2S which was the same thing. Everyone has their plus routes, his just manifest easier at lower levels where people mash alot cause its just a 5S. Slash VV(his slash DP) recov is bonkers and will be nerfed imo, 6S will see some change. Idk if much else is needed. Clean hit damage for heavy VV might get changed, but honestly i think his dmg is more to do with the RISC values on things like f.S and 6S and i expect to see him generate less Risc after a balance patch. With less risc i dont think Clean hit will need much change but who knows what they decide.
Sol is clearly a low tier menace, but its hard to justify over nerfing a character because people havnt learned/ or dont care to learn the ins and outs of the matchup. We will see how it goes.
When the game itself has a constant reminder that "SOL BADGUY HAS THE MOST WINS IN THE ENTIRE GAME WITHIN THE RANKED TOWER", it's kind of a call to nerf. Education my foot - the game is advertising that I'm a feckin' idiot for not picking and learning Sol.
I wouldnt say gim have the most tower wins is really the key indicator
While tier lists and popularity somewhat correlate
Assuming his wins is the lynchpun ignores that
-hes genuinely fun to pmay
-hes a shoto, meaning almost every player has him or ky as a pocket
-hes easy to get into for beginners and rewarding for experienced players
-he is bawically mister guilty gear himself
--------
He has a lot of shit going fir hum to be popular other than him being op
Alternative Video Plan: Just a 18 second video of Sol landing a ToD on Potemkin
In the slightest bit of fairness, that ToD required a counter-hit and 2 or 3 Tiger Knee'd DPs that are as close to frame perfect as you could get in Strive. But then scratch that "to be fair," because doing a far easier version of that kind of combo that scaled harder still did 80%.
Great video! I'd love to see the same type of video about why Faust is considered low tier
Keep in mind it's not like Sol makes the game unplayable or something like that, players like Nage can DESTROY people in tournaments and he plays Faust which is considered bottom 3.
Sol has one of if not the best move in every move category in the game. Even unique moves that most of the cast don't have. I'd say his dp is tied with Leo's for best because of how ridiculously fast S viper recovers it's almost impossible to punish unless you blocked it right in his face, and clean hit H dp has just straight up broken damage. His command grab is the only move I can think of that's not basically guaranteed top 3 in the game. Even his health is top 3 in the game. In my opinion I'd say it's great to have an all arounder. Jack of all trades is a staple of fighting game archetypes, it's like having an automatic counter pick built into your character. the broken part is the fact that his moves aren't just decent in their categories they're, at worst, top 3.
you're like the chef John of fighting games, so soothing
Waiting for the next patch when they inevitably buff Sol 😎
you can tell that rooflemonger himself was getting surprised at how much shit Sol can do. Thankfully, since I'm playing Faust, I'm well equipped to fight against him.
You don't have to worry about being bogged down by all those pesky options.
Sol also has amazing hitboxes on top of everything else
Yes. He can literally slap Rams S and HS swords. And the window for that is HUGE I tell you
"maybe you don't hold that opinion" in other words "maybe your a sol main who doesn't want to admit your character is easily top 1"
Sol is undoubtedly the best character in Strive. He has good defense, a fuckton of options, high damage, good frame data, good range on his attacks. The only thing he lacks is meterless high/low mixup, but it's not like that helps you much. Chipp, Millia, Zato, Faust... they all have meterless high/low mixup, but Chipp can't get anything off it without meter, Zato needs Eddie out as he lands the overhead or RC to get anything, Millia needs a hard knockdown and hope their opponent doesn't fuzzy block her pressure, and Faust needs to land a command grab. So even if you do have the one thing Sol doesn't have, you still have need something else in order to use it effectively.
Sol on the other hand can just f.S you all day and it's essentially a 50/50 in which you either mash for extremely low reward or he cancels into 5H and counter hits you for about a third of your health. Continuing to block is not an option; you can not use Faultless Defense to push him away without it also being a Instant Block which is a mere TWO FRAME WINDOW. You are forced to make a guess. If you guess right, you get maybe 40 damage on Sol as opposed to his 150+ damage on your wrong guess. He doesn't need high/low mixup because what he has is so much easier to accomplish and gets so much more reward for so much less than everyone else.
If I want mixup, why play a character like Zato who is infamous for his execution barrier, has no defensive options, low health, needs to manage a resource and has ass-tier frame data but has meterless high/low mixup when I can play Sol and just press one button for a low risk, high reward 50/50 that gives me a counter hit while having none of Zato's downsides?
i don't disagree with sol being top tier
but the distance between him and the next top contenders is a lot shorter than people think or are willing to admit
that being said, the difference in power between him and the bottom is big yikes
Mhm next tell me anjis good.
@@dalodulo1373 that's the bottom he mentioned
@@andrew9k424 The point being sol is a world apart from the rest of the cast. Period. No top tier is anywhere near as good as he is. If you lost with him it was cause you messed up, not him
Part of it is people not undersanding the RISK guage. They block a bit, torque it up, try something, and get multi counterhit erased. This has always been in GG but I swear RISK builds faster now.
He is not as Broken like other chars in fgs he is manageble
I fear a smart Sol player, but the fact that the character is so good means that most Sol players are kinda lazy, with limited imagination and short tempers. I know that the gap between Floor 9 and Celestial is actually pretty big-but in my limited experience as a Faust main on Floor 9, you can walk circles around your average Sol Badguy if you stay patient, block, and avoid getting predictable on your turn.
Sucks playing Potemkin, who doesn't have but a few things he can do and even then, if you get the mixup part going? Sol's a fucking psychic and will guess correctly.
It's funny because Sol himself is very lazy in his fights and only puts in the bare minimum to win. And he prefers being more of a brute force wrecking ball than a tactician.
So really those Sol players are just keeping him in character. 😄
@@metalgamer8179 most Potemkins do very well against my chipp. They seem to be really good at anti airing and keeping their pressure up so that I can’t do anything without risking 20% of his health. Granted I’m pretty trash with chipp seeing as I barely made it to the 8th floor with much more Ls than Ws so take my viewpoint with a grain of salt
Yea not to mention sol is disproportionately strong the lower teir you are. Means alot of very average players have an idea that sol is unbeatably strong. In reality he is just the strongest top tier by a few combined elements that will be adjusted in the first balance patch very likely. Most people shouting that he is unbeatable will likely still struggle with Sol after some balance, since they have been scape-goating their struggles rather than doing what they can with the matchup infront of them.
Also just look at that risk sol builds up with his attacks
One thing a lot of people seem to miss is his recovery frames as well. Take a look at f.S recovery and compare it to similar moves around the cast and you'll notice it recovers in about 2/3rds the time on whiff (13 frames compared to the average 19) , which is part of what allows it to be spammed so much in neutral, as even on whiff you can get another button out before the person can react to punish or take their turn or to get a 6P out to anti air that person that jumped over your f.S
I think how much his moves blow up the RISC meter deserves a specific point. You mentioned it here and there but personally I think it's one of his main issues. The RISC generation, clean hit DP damage, and 3 frame 5K are his biggest offenders right now IMO.
If the man presses 4 buttons while you're blocking and manages to land literally anything, you're just dead because you're at like 3/4 RISC. His clean hit DP is basically a super and can be easily combo'd into from 6P at basically any part of a wall combo. Example: crank RISC gauge, land corner hit into 5H, pick a special (they basically all corner combo), land 5K into 6P, heavy DP for wall splat, Tyrant Rave, RIP. Even if they changed Sol's 5K to 5 frames, it would still be the fastest 5K in the game (Axl Chipp and Gio have 6 frame 5Ks, everyone else has 7 or more). I am hopeful for this upcoming patch and whatever balance changes it might bring.
As stupid as this might sound, I'd like to see they buff other characters to as strong as this instead of just nerf the top tier like most games do. The thing I like about Sol is he has a lot of freedom, so I can do a lot of stuffs and being creative when fighting with him, and I would like to see more of this on other characters.
I don’t agree
If you buff a lot of characters in a quite balanced game like strive all the cast end up having similar options, making their playstyles more similar
Honestly if they did some minor Tweeks on Sol, and so decent buffs on everyone else this could work. Because Sol doesn't need his Kara cancels at all to be good imo. His kick could be made 4 frames and his 6S more punishable on whiff, and 5S could be +1 or Zero on block, he'd still be the best character but not broken
@@guillermoolivan610 I think it's possible for a character to be strong while still having a unique kit. Just use what they already have and make it more effective is also a way of balancing.
@@thanatosignis5702 f.S isnt the issue, 5k isnt the issue. 6S, Slash VV is kinda the problem atm. If you watch high teir matchups vs sol no one is struggling with f.S really. If you are its more indicative of struggling with frame trapping/Staggering in general. In other GG's like +R and Xrd 2S had very similar frame data, and could gatling into even more stuff so im skeptical that f.S really needs too much changed. 5k was also very similar, even hitting smaller characters a bit farther at full extend(the 5F part of it) and 2D was considered the scary normal in those games. I agree that 6S is too strong and i think slash VV recovery has to be nerfed for sure.
To expand on the damage point, most of Sol's optimal combos incorporate his Clean Hit H DP which involves landing his DP as close as possible for a damage bonus as many times as possible. The damage he gets with Clean hit DP is in general absolutely absurd (it does 114 damage unscaled on Ky, and that damage tends to be unscaled due to how easily Sol can crank the Risc gauge up), allowing him to kill most characters in the game off of 1 good hit with relative ease
@CJ2 @CJ2 relative ease as in most sol matches that I've seen have the opponent utterly explode if he gets a hit. Most of his optimal combos incorporate at least 1 H DP into the mix, sometimes more.
As for the no Sols in competitive... most tournaments that I've seen have had at least 1 Sol player reach top 8, usually more than that, and that doesn't even account for the Sol players who don't get that far. The only tournament I've seen that didn't see a single Sol in was DreamHack
We all knew Sol was op from the start but people thought we could find some ways to counter or play around him with some time and practice. But its actually the opposite, now that Sol's players have fully mastered his kit, it became obnoxious, he got everything as you said, (you didnt even mention his DP). Even if you are not calling for a nerf, I think its now clear for everyone that he need one. It was the main topic this week in the GGS comunity, and a large majority agree that he need a nerf for the sake of this game, even Sol's players themself agree about that.
Are you talking about the GGST Community Discord, I'm on there and I'm a Sol main, yes this man needs a nerf lol, he needs a weakness like everyone else in the game
What's really baffling about Sol's plus frames is that he's a shameless exception to a pattern that virtually every *other* character follows consistently, where plus frames are tied to moves with a notable gap in them. If Sol actually followed the same formula, his plus frames would probably be tied to Bandit Bringer, but instead he gets to make like a bandit and slap that oppression onto one of his most common buttons.
I mean thats not really true. And Sol always had a move with that frame data. 2S in +R and Xrd had the same data as his f.S in this game. And his f.S in those games was more like his 6S for some background. I think you are talking about guard breaks, which sol follows that formula also. Strive guard breaks are usually react-able to some degree.
@@AnthonyC90 You haven't really addressed my actual point. I'm talking about how Strive Sol is an exception to how Strive treats its other characters, not how Strive Sol compares to his own previous versions.
Very few moves in Strive are plus on block, and typically they're special moves with slow startups or some other gap that make them vulnerable to interruption. May's HS Dolphin, I-No's HS Big Tree, Axl's feinting chain swipe, almost no one has plus frames on their actual normals. Not only is Sol an exception to this, he gets plus frames on both close and far versions of S, already one of his most common buttons.
I point it out not because it bugs me in itself, but because no one else in Strive gets that same treatment. Strive, not +R, and not Xrd.
@@BloodSportA2 Sol in +R had a normal 2S with the same frame data as f.S so its not really a new thing at all. There are plus on block specials and normals, and command normals in strive that fit in to kits in different ways, but there is pressure built around all of it in a very similar way.
Some characters like Nago have normals that are not plus frames on paper, but with spacing after block, and his interactions they become unpunishable and essentially still his turn. May has a similar effect, as does GIO. Infact Gio has 2 + pressure enders, while sols +frame is the opening stagger. Both are better in different ways, but as i said f.S is really not the big bad issue people think it is. 6S/Slash VV and the amount of risc he builds on people is really the culprit imo.
The only thing really diff for Sol is that f.S is the +frame attack rather than 2S. Otherwise sol is actually very similar to +R/Xrd Sol. Its the change in damage and alot of the other things about sol that makes him top tier not f.S standalone really.
Watch some high tier players fight sol and i think youll see that f.S isnt really the pillar he stands on. Its more of a low level crutch IMO.
Another quick point. Your example of having a + move into a gatling is kinda looking at it the wrong way. Every stagger that isnt absurdly unsafe is a frametrap, as it can be staggered safely to catch buttons. Sol has a bit more breathing space in his main gatling from that, but also lacks any other mixup besides strike/Throw(and of course staggering block strings/cancels of all kinds like any FG character). f.S is just kinda a watershed for complaints, but really not even the crazy thing about him.
@@AnthonyC90 Except I didn’t say it was what made Sol a menace, I said it was an odd(and maybe irritating) exception to an otherwise consistent pattern Strive’s other characters follow. You haven’t even really disagreed with that, you just reframed the point to include bits that *I* don’t really disagree with.
This is why I hunt sol players. Once I learn the Leo matchup I’ll hunt that unga bunga too
Ahahahahah more power to you brother!
Kill em with faust, salt the wounds thoroughly
I liken Sol’s plus frames to Russian Roulette: every time you survive the mix up, Sol puts another bullet into the RISC gauge chamber
Yea i think reducing the Risc on some of his normals will go a long way to adjusting him. I dont think frame data on f.S needs to be touched too much, or 5k. 6S and slash VV need some changes to frame data, but 6S especially and some other normals should create less Risc on block, and then his dmg wont seem so high on a touch.
wow a reasonable discussion and not someone whining about sol parroting what everyone else says. bravo
Missed out on several things that make him broken, for example:
jD wallbounce enables for the easiest and most damaging air confirms in the game
S DP being what it is, a literal RPS on whiff at midrange
Clean hit H DP enabling some of the most outrageous damage in the game (a move which is otherwise completely useless because S DP does all it does and better as a reversal), while also being stupidly easy to achieve
jH having no recovery and hitting extremely low making it very, very hard to punish when he is on top of you
Bandit Bringer having a ridiculously thick hitbox that WILL cross you up if you try to run under it, helping him space it so it is pretty much unpunishable on block
Did not mention the oppresive disjoint on 6S which also hits so low to the ground that it WILL blow you up for trying to contest it with 6p
The natural frametrap that will clip jumps from 5h gunflame in the corner which is a move you naturally want to jump out of
And it keeps going.
important thing to note on night raid vortex: you can grab him out of it surprisingly easily, though being mentally ready to grab sol is a different story
Sonicsol showed off a crazy 80% combo starting from the uppercut DP. Plus the DP does like over 20% by itself anyway.
Even if you only do one bar, the combo sends the Sol out of the corner and puts the other player quite close to the corner, where Sol is now in advantage.
@@blacksmithgames8739 the DP needs to clean hit to create corner OKI. Dont sit still if you get hit by a normal one. Remember you wake up very quickly in that case.
I don’t normally try to comment multiple times on the same video, but my other comment is discussing changes I’d like to see to the game (please ArcSys let the cast have freedom like Sol’s combos) and I want this comment to be more praise to you.
I want as many people to see this video as possible simply for the ending alone (on top of all of the really good info you have in the rest of the video).
I feel like it cannot be stressed enough how OPTIONS are the key to any fighting game top tier. I see people complain about a lot of characters, but Ramlethal is one I see people asking for nerfs a lot because of her range and her corner pressure.
What I don’t understand, however, is why NOBODY looks at her weaknesses. She’s really scary if you’re stuck in the corner, but what if you aren’t stuck in the corner?
This video is truly great because it breaks down WHY Sol is strong by pointing out all of the options he has.
I ask anybody please before you start talking about nerfs and buffs to go to the Dustloop wiki and just compare moves. Not like frame data and range and all of that, but just read the properties of the moves. If you check out the general analysis of the characters, it will tell you whether or not a move wall bounces, if it causes any special state upon landing, etc. and you’ll immediately realize why Sol has so much freedom. The man has a unique property on most of his moves I swear lol.
Anyway, this is an amazing video that truly breaks down what it means to be a top tier in ways that I hope can dispel some negative feelings about other characters, and maybe the community will start asking for every character to have more freedom.
Have to say after playing Potemkin in Celestial for a while, Sol and Ram are fun to play against despite their top tier status. However I'm having a huge problem dealing with May.
To deal with may, throw plastic in the ocean until the dolphins are gone.
Tostugeki!
A lot of people are so shook by Sol that if you mention any form of counterplay against him, they call you a down player.
Also, I agree, Sol is one of those top tiers where they are more tolerable to fight
The hammer of justice _(AKA: NERF HAMMER)_ is upon the gorilla king.
He can whiff fefnir, FS, bandit bringer and he still feels "plus" as he can press K and combo/pressure you again.
It feels like non of his moves have recovery.
Thus it's so difficult to whiff punish anything he does.
This is why I feel he's broken as a Gio player as he can whiff one button and press another button and I get punished for trying to whiff punish him.
He puts me in a guessing game for whiffing, it's insane.
Same for his light dp, such a small recovery that if you miss the punish window he can just dp again.
I think he needs a big nerf
That’s a fair point to make. I don’t mind fighting Sol. I HATE fighting ky. But I’m a nago main so I guess that makes sense? 🤷🏻♂️
“Lots of character has +frames, a lot of characters has reversal”
Looks at Faust…yeah
Your point?
@@cristianestrada5381 he has neither of these things
My man Laust needs serious help
at least his reversal super beats grabs
Yellow rc, super cancel into purple rc, for one bar which is a bug. Saying he doesn’t have reversals in a blatant lie
Didn't even mention the inexplicable disjointed hit box on his 6s. Sol just gets weird benefits that don't seem at all justified for the kind of character he is.
I went over that in quite a bit of detail in the vid from a few days ago, so didn't wanna just repeat myself
Sol makes me glad I main pot, because he actually has a pretty solid matchup against him
i hope he keeps his combo versatility even after his nerf
Yo forgot 1 thing, bandit bringer, it's a move that's -2 yes on a normal character it would be punishable if you react accordingly and would require red roman cancel to be safe. But Sol is a character with a 3f normal and bandit bringer leaves him at perfect range for a 3K
What if you wanted to win in GGST but Sol's new theme says... *STRIKE BACK!*
11:12
Sol's design has ALWAYS been "Do whatever/Freestyle combos".
His belt at one time said "Fuck"... I think thats more fitting
Wouldn't it be great if, instead of nerfing Sol, they just made everyone as versatile as him? Maybe tweaked the damage down ever so slightly, but allowed everyone to have these super expressive, anything goes combo routes?
Side note, if you delay Sol's close slash to far slash you leave the opponent standing, which means you can link into your 3 frame kick, then forward slash, then 236K, then literally do anything with a red roman cancel!
The only other character that I've found with satisfying combos is Leo with his stance switch mechanic. Everyone else it feels like you're playing with boxing gloves, you'll press buttons that feel like they should link together but nothing happens. It's hard to explain.
The thing is it almost feels like the cool combos these characters can do are unintentional - linking delayed slashes to kick for Sol only works because his kick is 3 frames, so it will probably be gone if / when they add frames to the startup, which will remove a whole branch of his combo tree, or the constant stance switching with dashes for Leo.
It's really weird - their stated intention is to have a beginner friendly fighting game, but to any beginner just picking up the game and trying to press buttons, there's so many restrictions on what can be linked into from the previous button press that you'll usually only get a slash, slash, heavy slash combo (again, as a beginner just picking up the game). Pick up any other fighting game, and you can do some pretty cool stuff right off the bat - even notoriously "hard" games like Tekken have this visceral appeal of picking it up, pressing buttons, and seeing some pretty cool stuff happen.
It feels like there's a really interesting game hiding just out of sight with Strive, and if they opened things up a bit we could have all this freedom for all the characters, rather than just Sol :)
you speak the words of true true.
You didn't mention that nearly every move in his moveset leads into a full combo. Meaning that to avoid taking massive damage you basically can't get touched by any stray hit because he can usually convert it into at least 30% damage without even using RC.
Yeah my friend who mind you doesnt properly know how to play sol that well makes mistakes every now and then and still manages to "improvise" by simply just doing anything else and it will still combo 30% of my health which is ridiculous
Reject neutral. Reject mankind.
*_EMBRACE THE SOL UNGA BUNGA_*
Yeah I’ve started seeing a ton of Sol on the floors and I just can’t stand to play against him any more :( I need to learn what to do against him when I’m blocking because I feel like he can take his turn and I’m too scared to get murdered in a single combo if I make one mistake :(
I’m not calling for him to be nerfed into the ground. I think he needs a little less, but I want to see other characters get a lot more as well. He has so many moves that go into good combos.
I think ideally I’d tone down his block pressure, give other characters more combo options like he has, and then universally nerf the damage output of the game just a bit to compensate.
Sol feels great to play as because of how much freedom he gives you, and I DO NOT want that to change. I want everybody else to feel as free as him. He’s still kinda playing Xrd while we’re all stuck in Strive.
This isn't necessarily directed at you, but why is everyone always so apologetic when even saying a chracter should be nerfed?
@@dalodulo1373 because fighting game sweats will jump and be offended if someone wants their unga character bumped down
@@dalodulo1373 Probably because Sol is a genuinely fun character to play and most people would rather other characters be brought up to a similar level of flow than have him brought down to other characters. Sol has a level of fluidity that most of the characters struggle to match.
@@ZuzuPazuzu When have they ever done that though? Seriously the only.game I can think of is dbfz and guess what....they nerfed things. Cause it needed to happen.
@@dalodulo1373 He is probably an Ino or Kai player upset that his character got downtuned from rev2. The modern mass appeal arcsys fighter has been born @Lugia2109 (FighterZ starting it).
Sol feelsbadguy
Sol is vanilla SF4 Ryu. He has answers to everything and a lot of conversions into big damage, which is kind of problematic in a high damage game already.
I wish everyone else played more like this.
Not the *exact* same mind you, but with a free flowing move structure.
The closest character to that is Gio.
Can you elaborate on this? Gio's combos seem incredibly rigid outside of very specific situations.
Sols standing K also hits while crouching opponents while chipps jab will whiff
Also I’m pretty sure that sol can RC a blocked Fafnir into a combo. Like even if fafnir is blocked, RRC will pop them up to get a combo
Mr Ishiwatari couldn't help himself and gave all kindz of good stuff to his golden boy.
I'm still winning most of the times when I meet a Sol player 'cuz the majority are just pressing buttons and hope for the best.
Imma drop the tech rn. Dash macro into Kara gun flame instantly will hit full screen and is plus on block leaving you touching them. Also its a combo starter
But why, why would you do that?
Ion want crazy nerfs per se cause just making a strong character to nerf him seems annoying :p so maybe some small stuff that’ll go a decent way like reducing the distance on the 3f part of 5k by a lot, increasing scaling on light buttons and more pushback/less advance on fS. So he still gets to virtually do everything but more situational/less reward
Counter hit night raid vortex is crazy
i love fighting sol players because it feels like there's never much cheese, there's only so many ways he can mix his main gatling combo and you can react decently to his DP, his damage sure as hell needs tuning though
I really hope they give every other character as many options as sol. The part of him that’s so fun to play is that he’s so free form and expressive. That’s basically how the older ggs worked since everybody’s kit was so fleshed out that very often two people who main the same character would play entirely differently. This is coming from an i-no player.
Sol 6S is so strong it can cure cancer
Sol's stand kick vs Chipp is like watching Superman beat the flash in a race in theaters.
I'll admit I had trouble with Sol, so I had to hit the lab to really figure out how to deal with his shit. One thing for example is that I had trouble dealing with his Gunflame pressure in the corner with Potemkin being so wide, till I learned that where FD comes in handy.
In the end, no matter how powerful a character is, it's better to learn the match up, than to cry for nerfs. If I may request, I think a follow up analysis video on certain low tier characters on what makes them bad, and what could make them better would also be great for us to see! ^^
Very good mindset, alot of people can learn from you my man. There are a ton of people scape-goating losing to Sol, when the character itself pales in comparison to the lack of matchup knowledge/execution the player has themselves. There is going to be alot of very frustrated people once sol gets adjusted, that still lose to sol because they actually never learned how to fight the matchup.
The thumbnail for this made me giggle
I am quite happy with the thumbnail :)
Great video
Fastest attack on Anji is 8 frames and only a single one of his buttons is + frames, and that move is avoidable and/or interruptable for a counterhit combo.
you didnt even talk about how his win neutral button (far slash) moves him forward on top of being plus. so even by blocking it or especially tension blocking it you are being forced to corner.
1:09 I wouldn’t be too sure as ui still exists
Roof: This is not a call for a nerf or anything
Me: Ok but why not?
Sol? You mean that dude who gets 90% of a health bar for 50% meter starting from an uppercut confirm?
Sol - everything and then some
There's no way they tested sols dp to see if its punishable.
What makes a character a top tier:
The ability to do 3/4ths of your hp from middle with no meter
Having no weaknesses
looking badass
I find Sol Badguy much less of an issue to go up against than Ramlethal. And I'll gladly die on that hill.
Aye man, only character I couldnt find a 252 combo for 50 bar in a couple mins were millia and ino, sol just gets the damage in more situations than some others
I don't remember Sol being this strong throughout the beta period.
Is that true? I didn’t get to play the beta
He was stronger actually, just everyone was hyper fixated on ramlethal
Kinda lucked out as a Nago player. Despite everything the Sol matchup actually is pretty even imo. Sol wins up close but Nago dominates at range, and Nago might be the one character that can hang with Sol's damage output. Struggle a lot more with Ram and Chipp
Nago is my #2/3 with Chipp and may close behind. I honestly thing after the first balance patch Nago is going to be king of the roost. This game has alot more lower tier players than a PC FGC game has had in a long time, so people are very loud about Sol. This kind of takes the cross hair off of really viable characters not far behind him(May/Nago/Chipp even Potempkin to an extent who i think isnt far behind those 3).
Vortex just hurts my soul
4:15 The button is utilitarian, oh no, its been watching to many philosophy videos
Fully agree that sol is busted, but one thing: wild throw is absolutely not a good command grab. Compared to normal throw, it's only +7 on hit, you don't get anything from rcing it besides 6h otg, forces sideswitch and it only does slightly more damage. You rather opt to use normal throw instead of wild throw in most situations.
Back in the beta when it only did like 20 points less than potemkin buster, it was a pretty damn good command grab.
Im literally beating people just by spamming nothing but his slash button and dashing and grabbing. Literally, and I am on 9f, absolute no knowledge of how to play Sol lmao.
Thanks for the knowledge drop! I will not be bullied!
My main problem (And honestly my ONLY problem) with Sol is that Clean Hit HS Volcanic Viper does WAYYYY too much fucking damage and opens up ToDs that otherwise would not exist.
The fact that nS into Clean Hit H DP does like 45+% with ANY amount of RISC is honestly unacceptable.
I KNOW that a LOT of these combos are TECHNICALLY neta combos, but with a LOT of these high level Sol players that delete your health bar, there's one common denominator in the combos they're doing that kills. That's Clean Hit H DP hitting 2-4 times in a combo that represents most of the damage in the combo.
If this move's damage would just get adjusted already, Sol would be fine in my view without killing him off.
Don't forget he doesn't just have a DP, he has the strongest DP in the game, doing 100 damage on clean hit.
Sol is a unique kind of top tier where he's really not wanting for anything.
So he's top tier and basically has no weaknesses.
I think he's free. I mean it says it right on his belt.
Sole bad guy? I don't know about that, this game seems to have a lot of villains.