Keep your correct piece as a pattern and then adjust it to that height every time you want to use it. Zero set up time and no multiple cuts. Great explanation George. Thank you.
To anyone that is thinking of buying a 1/2" router, i've had the RIDGIDModel # R22002 for over a year now, mounted in a Paulk inspired bench, using that Kreg plate, and you do not need a lift, it comes with a micro adjustment tool(a long sort of hex drive thingy[tech term™])and though you do have to help it up, it eliminates the need for an expensive lift. I love the Kreg undrilled plate for many many reasons, but my first one, i mounted upside down(to hide the logo) don't do that, as it has a place for a pivot or limiter(forgot what those are called)that helps you start pieces when using guided bits. Thank you WWGOA for these very informative videos.
great video, and if you have something like the triton or rigid half inch routers, they have micro adjustment from the table top as part of the router so you dont need an expensive router lift.
Something I forgot to add to my earlier post... a friend of mine builds all of his drawers with the Lock Miter bits and then uses Miller Dowels (the Mini-x size) to pin them while they are in the clamps. He sells kitchens with drawers made this way and has yet to replace a drawer for a failure. I have used them on some of my heavier duty drawers as well. The MILLER DOWEL COMPANY makes a great product. He builds his bench’s and other products using this dowel system as well. He has a dedicated router, lift and plate just for this bit so he doesn’t have to mess with setup. He has another router, plate and lift (all the same brand as the other setup) to use for other routing jobs. One of the benefits of running a cabinet shop.... Ron
You know, seems like everyone that demonstrates these kinds of things always uses 3/4 inch stock. NOT THIS TIME so Kudos to YOU!! Thank you for demonstrating with 1/2 inch stock.
I would think that using a piece of the last test cut as a setup block would be useful for easy future setup. Further, if you use it to set the height first, then add a mdf sacrificial fence to the fence and then push the fence back through the router you would end up with a zero clearance fence to use with this setup in future.
So if you are using full extension drawer slides, you should get the setup on this correct before you cut the drawer fronts and backs to length since they are so finicky on the width being exact.
Mo Ghotbi Agree, I do the lock-rabbet on the table saw too and will continue but for certain work and this is going to sound totally OCD but that one curve that the drawer lock router bit has makes it more appropriate for some fine furniture and materials and as George mentions about glue area it has slightly more. I also feel better cutting curves across plywood than splitting plys at 90 degrees. In the end I choose both. ;)
Once you get it set right, take a couple good scraps of the wood, mark them as guides and cut them. Next time you need to set up for that wood thickness, just put those "perfect cut" scraps up to the bit, and adjust height and fence so that they slide right through, and you should have to make no more than one test cut and adjustment to get back to "perfect"...
Thanks B Miller, I was just about to ask if there were precise measurements which would prevent wood (even as scraps) wastage, but your method looks like a great alternative. Cheers. Thanks for the original WGA.
@@BillGatliff Make a tote that you put your guides in and be sure to mark your guides as to what they are. I just watched a WoodSmith tips video on this and theirs was sized to hold 16 guides. Four wide and four deep with a centered handle divider making it two deep on either side. However, you should make it as big as you need for all the bits you need to set up and have a few extra blanks. Here's a link to the woodsmith tips site. www.woodsmithtips.com/ Click the video tips archive, then the router table category on the right, Then scroll down to see a thumbnail of the tote.
The effect he uses for transition between video shots makes he think I am getting a migraine! Lol! All the center goes out of vision...freeaky. I like this bit, and your setup helps a great deal.
I'm not so sure this video does much to allay the frustrations woodworkers experience with drawer lock bits. After several adjustments, the cut was never perfect, mirroring the experience of frustrated box makers. I myself spent a lot of time and frustration going through numerous bit "adjustments" and test pieces to finally determine my router bit height needed to be 17/32", not 1/2". Although the drawer lock bit provides a more pleasing look, I think I'll use my table saw particularly since I have two.
I would spend some extra time, one time, and get the router bit setup as perfect as possible. Then, use some plastic pieces (Delrin, HDPE, or UHMW) to make some permanent setup bars, just like your Kreg setup bars. These would allow a very quick setup for future work.
You would have to put the tape up the board as high as the fence, or the board worn't sit square against the fence. It also might not work, which isn't something you would want to risk if you are using expensive woods.
Great presentation. Focusing on what part of the bit position affects which part of the joint is something I rarely see, but it's really the whole point.
Great video as always. Some good information. George I have been watching your videos since I think from the beginning when you were doing projects and tips on a dvd series and continue to watch your videos on RUclips. You are always clear and concise and the info is still appreciated. Are you still producing project based videos anywhere? Thank you for all the projects and tips over the years. The first time I used a lock miter set it took a couple of tries to get it right. I bought an Infinity brand Lock Miter and Lock Miter Jr bit set with their UHMW setup guides and they helped a lot. Since then Infinity has come up with an aluminum guide/jig that has alignment marks on it and sticks to the bit via magnets. The first time I used the guide it worked perfectly and my cuts were dead on accurate. They make one for both the Lock Miter and Lock Miter Jr bit set and they worked just fine on another brand of bit I tried as well. Ron
Question: another RUclipsr said that this joint was OK for solid wood but should be avoided with plywood. Is that correct, or should you just avoid poor quality plywood with voids?
It is fine to use with void-free plywood such as baltic birch, but it is not a good idea to use this approach with lower quality plywood with voids in it because it would likely lack the strength necessary to form a solid joint.
Hi Brian, I would suggest using a straight bit for that instead because the drawer lock bit removes too much material underneath the door panel, which would reduce the support. Alternatively you can mill a groove using a table saw. Paul Woodworkers Guild of America
Could you take a perfectly fitting joint, then use them to set your adjustment for future setup? Thus keeping a section of the joint in your setup tools. Would this work? I am going to purchase this bit, it looks very strong for many types of carcasses.
This was a helpful video, and I did watch it after I already had "smoke coming out of [my] ears." Eventually got a "good enough" joint on my slightly-less-than-half-inch-thick birch plywood. The jury's still out. I'm not sure it was worth it; these bits ain't cheap and a rabbet might have been just as good.
frbrable I tend to agree but dado setups are fussy...I’ve had a set up give different widths when repeating a spacer set up. A router bit eliminates that variable. Maybe just a butt joint...haha
@@LiloUkulele Yeah, I hear you. Since I already have the bit, I'm going to keep experimenting with it and see if I can get it just right. Unfortunately, I also don't have a higher-end router table like the one shown in this video, so making micro-adjustments is a bit more difficult. Will keep trying though. Plenty of scrap laying around.
@@frbrable I've been doing the 1/4-1/4-1/4 joint on the table saw for a while...it works, its pretty good, but if ya have to change blades plan of starting over...its basically a pain in the butt... Had a router lift on my wish list for a yr...finally found one for just over a $100...think I'm obligated to start using the bit...wouldn't even think of trying it without a lift. I have yet to try 'em but they come highly recommended...Miller steeped wooden dowels.
when you are making these boxes or getting the wood prepared for them,,,how do you cut the front and back to fit the sides that give you the width,,,,,,lol,,i hope you understand what im saying
HI Jeff, You probably figured it out by now but if you're still wondering, this joint does not shorten the width of the drawer front or back. So if your drawer slides call to shorten the width by 1 inch for the width of both slides then that dimension stays the same. However you will have to get your adjustment so the front web left by the cutter is very close to perfect. You adjust this with your fence adjustment. Once you get it perfect save your test pieces, mark which is the front and which is the side. Then use these to set up your bit and fence each time.
Great video. We are redoing our kitchen and I am making all the cabinets. I bought one of these bits. What I need to know, though, is what thickness of stock can you do with them. I have searched the web and haven't found that answer. What is the minimum and maximum thickness possible with these bits.
Seems like a lot of work for a joint that doesn't look like it will be very strong. A good dovetail jig like the (porter cable) is a lot quicker to set up and will be a much stronger joint.
MAGA MAN how so? Mechanical joint with a good amount of glue surface, add in a bottom and it's probably just as strong as a dovetail and done in a lot less time.
I guess you need to get everything set up so you can figure the exact width needed for a drawer, if using drawer slides (which wants the drawer width to be 1" less than the opening). Then you can mass cut your drawer parts. Does anyone have a better way of accomplishing this?
I've watched 2-3 videos and they give different directions regarding setting the fence and bit. This video seems best because you use the same fence setting and bit cut/height for both pieces of wood. No resetting the fence as in another video.
I just now got my router table and bit all set so I can make the front and side passes with no further adjustment. Now, if my table and router will just stay set.
@@WwgoaThank you for your quick reply. Which brand bit are you using? I see bits of different width; 2", 1" and 3/4"...I build a lot 1/2" baltic birch drawers. I use a single speed router (PC) so I don't think a 2" wide would be appropriate. thanks again.
I have been looking at these type of bit's at MLCS woodworking they offer set up blocks for these type of bits do you think these would be worth the $10.00 cost? I am new to woodworking & do not have a router lift.
Vince Baker I'm relatively new to wood working myself and have a Dewalt 2 3/4 HP router that I fastened a square foot of 1/4 Plexiglas to and I've found that I can make pretty precise adjustments where it pulls up out of my table with the surface still attached. If your setup is like that you may not need a router lift. However that kreg lift looks real nice
Hello Vince, It's hard to say. If they are perfectly matched to your material size then they might be worth it to you. I don't mind going through the setup process manually every once in a while. If I did the same setup a lot I would use setup blocks. Once you set it up once, you could make your own setup blocks, however. Thanks, Paul WoodWorkers Guild of America Video Membership
Such set up blocks can represent excellent value, particularly for someone without much experience. As has already been mentioned, they'll only work perfectly if your stock is milled to the exact dimensions the set up blocks were made for. That is, if your stock is over or under size by 1/8", the set up blocks will just get you close. But close is probably much better than you would do on your own. Once you're close, and once you've seen this video, you should be able to get the rest of the way without too much trouble.
Vince, I think the set up blocks will get you pretty close. Like someone else said, if your stock is milled to the same spec as the set up block then I guess it would work the first time. BUT, as you know, half inch ply is not a true half inch. Personally, I use the set up block to get me in the ball park and then fine tune from there. Once I have it, because I use a router lift and an Incra fence, I write down the measurements rather than using my test cut as my new set up block. I did this procedure this past weekend on a Lapped Miter bit set that I just purchased. The lapped miter gives you a mitered corner plus some fancy angles within the joint for a lot of glue surface.
Why don’t you use feeler gauges to make your micro adjustments? It would make your trial and error go so much faster. In making furniture you should get used to working with thousandths of an inch.
That would complicate the video with no benefit to the topic. The presentation is on how changes in bit position affect the joint, not how to make precise changes in bit position. Though to your point, I think a short video with tips on how to determine and make micro-adjustments WOULD be a good one! It would apply to all sorts of things, not just drawer joints...
Keep your correct piece as a pattern and then adjust it to that height every time you want to use it. Zero set up time and no multiple cuts. Great explanation George. Thank you.
Now this is a fine idea! 👍🏻
Thank you for showing how to use this cutter. That really makes things clear for me. I am going to make a lot of drawers Gertsner style.
To anyone that is thinking of buying a 1/2" router, i've had the RIDGIDModel # R22002 for over a year now, mounted in a Paulk inspired bench, using that Kreg plate, and you do not need a lift, it comes with a micro adjustment tool(a long sort of hex drive thingy[tech term™])and though you do have to help it up, it eliminates the need for an expensive lift. I love the Kreg undrilled plate for many many reasons, but my first one, i mounted upside down(to hide the logo) don't do that, as it has a place for a pivot or limiter(forgot what those are called)that helps you start pieces when using guided bits. Thank you WWGOA for these very informative videos.
great video, and if you have something like the triton or rigid half inch routers, they have micro adjustment from the table top as part of the router so you dont need an expensive router lift.
Something I forgot to add to my earlier post... a friend of mine builds all of his drawers with the Lock Miter bits and then uses Miller Dowels (the Mini-x size) to pin them while they are in the clamps. He sells kitchens with drawers made this way and has yet to replace a drawer for a failure. I have used them on some of my heavier duty drawers as well. The MILLER DOWEL COMPANY makes a great product. He builds his bench’s and other products using this dowel system as well. He has a dedicated router, lift and plate just for this bit so he doesn’t have to mess with setup. He has another router, plate and lift (all the same brand as the other setup) to use for other routing jobs. One of the benefits of running a cabinet shop....
Ron
instablaster.
Gracias por la ilustración
Podría decirme el nombre de la fresa
Saludos
Muchas gracias por compartir tus conocimientos
You know, seems like everyone that demonstrates these kinds of things always uses 3/4 inch stock. NOT THIS TIME so Kudos to YOU!! Thank you for demonstrating with 1/2 inch stock.
I would think that using a piece of the last test cut as a setup block would be useful for easy future setup. Further, if you use it to set the height first, then add a mdf sacrificial fence to the fence and then push the fence back through the router you would end up with a zero clearance fence to use with this setup in future.
So if you are using full extension drawer slides, you should get the setup on this correct before you cut the drawer fronts and backs to length since they are so finicky on the width being exact.
This convinced me to continue using my dado stack on my table saw instead of switching to my router.
Really? This convinced me to get a drawer lock bit so I don't have to switch setups on my table saw.
@@BillGatliff I have a drawer bit too but setting up my fences takes longer than changing my dado stack.
A lock-rabbet done on a table saw is much easier. I tried the drawer-lock bit and the setup is much more complicated.
Mo Ghotbi Agree, I do the lock-rabbet on the table saw too and will continue but for certain work and this is going to sound totally OCD but that one curve that the drawer lock router bit has makes it more appropriate for some fine furniture and materials and as George mentions about glue area it has slightly more. I also feel better cutting curves across plywood than splitting plys at 90 degrees. In the end I choose both. ;)
Muru Roa futzing with dado shims drive me crazy...I record a shim setup and can have a different width the next time...a bit eliminates that variable
Once you get it set right, take a couple good scraps of the wood, mark them as guides and cut them. Next time you need to set up for that wood thickness, just put those "perfect cut" scraps up to the bit, and adjust height and fence so that they slide right through, and you should have to make no more than one test cut and adjustment to get back to "perfect"...
Whenever I do this, I always forget where I put them... 😂
There is probably a jig that came with the bit that does that
@@irvinwittmeier5208... and if not, there certainly should be.
Thanks B Miller, I was just about to ask if there were precise measurements which would prevent wood (even as scraps) wastage, but your method looks like a great alternative. Cheers.
Thanks for the original WGA.
@@BillGatliff
Make a tote that you put your guides in and be sure to mark your guides as to what they are.
I just watched a WoodSmith tips video on this and theirs was sized to hold 16 guides. Four wide and four deep with a centered handle divider making it two deep on either side. However, you should make it as big as you need for all the bits you need to set up and have a few extra blanks.
Here's a link to the woodsmith tips site.
www.woodsmithtips.com/
Click the video tips archive, then the router table category on the right, Then scroll down to see a thumbnail of the tote.
The effect he uses for transition between video shots makes he think I am getting a migraine! Lol! All the center goes out of vision...freeaky. I like this bit, and your setup helps a great deal.
Ji
I just use the half half half method. One set up for all cuts.
I'm not so sure this video does much to allay the frustrations woodworkers experience with drawer lock bits. After several adjustments, the cut was never perfect, mirroring the experience of frustrated box makers. I myself spent a lot of time and frustration going through numerous bit "adjustments" and test pieces to finally determine my router bit height needed to be 17/32", not 1/2". Although the drawer lock bit provides a more pleasing look, I think I'll use my table saw particularly since I have two.
I would spend some extra time, one time, and get the router bit setup as perfect as possible. Then, use some plastic pieces (Delrin, HDPE, or UHMW) to make some permanent setup bars, just like your Kreg setup bars. These would allow a very quick setup for future work.
Outstanding video. Very informative! Will be checking out the WWG.
George, noticed you sacrificed the fence in order to prevent chip-out-would it also work by placing a little painter’s tape to serve the same purpose?
You would have to put the tape up the board as high as the fence, or the board worn't sit square against the fence. It also might not work, which isn't something you would want to risk if you are using expensive woods.
@Arlo Finn Thanks Arlo, it worked great to hack your account. Now I can spread spam using your name!
Great presentation. Focusing on what part of the bit position affects which part of the joint is something I rarely see, but it's really the whole point.
Great explanation through the process. Nice job.
Mine is coming out a bit loose fitting... Is it because I'm not making sure the boards are totally flat?
Nice video; well-explained.
Great video as always. Some good information. George I have been watching your videos since I think from the beginning when you were doing projects and tips on a dvd series and continue to watch your videos on RUclips. You are always clear and concise and the info is still appreciated. Are you still producing project based videos anywhere? Thank you for all the projects and tips over the years.
The first time I used a lock miter set it took a couple of tries to get it right. I bought an Infinity brand Lock Miter and Lock Miter Jr bit set with their UHMW setup guides and they helped a lot. Since then Infinity has come up with an aluminum guide/jig that has alignment marks on it and sticks to the bit via magnets. The first time I used the guide it worked perfectly and my cuts were dead on accurate. They make one for both the Lock Miter and Lock Miter Jr bit set and they worked just fine on another brand of bit I tried as well.
Ron
Question: another RUclipsr said that this joint was OK for solid wood but should be avoided with plywood. Is that correct, or should you just avoid poor quality plywood with voids?
It is fine to use with void-free plywood such as baltic birch, but it is not a good idea to use this approach with lower quality plywood with voids in it because it would likely lack the strength necessary to form a solid joint.
Can you use the same router bit to attach the bottoms of the drawers?
Great question! I have forwarded your question to our experts. Please allow 1-2 business days for their response. We will post it here. Thanks!
Hi Brian,
I would suggest using a straight bit for that instead because the drawer lock bit removes too much material underneath the door panel, which would reduce the support. Alternatively you can mill a groove using a table saw.
Paul
Woodworkers Guild of America
Could you take a perfectly fitting joint, then use them to set your adjustment for future setup? Thus keeping a section of the joint in your setup tools. Would this work? I am going to purchase this bit, it looks very strong for many types of carcasses.
This was a helpful video, and I did watch it after I already had "smoke coming out of [my] ears." Eventually got a "good enough" joint on my slightly-less-than-half-inch-thick birch plywood. The jury's still out. I'm not sure it was worth it; these bits ain't cheap and a rabbet might have been just as good.
frbrable I tend to agree but dado setups are fussy...I’ve had a set up give different widths when repeating a spacer set up. A router bit eliminates that variable. Maybe just a butt joint...haha
@@LiloUkulele Yeah, I hear you. Since I already have the bit, I'm going to keep experimenting with it and see if I can get it just right. Unfortunately, I also don't have a higher-end router table like the one shown in this video, so making micro-adjustments is a bit more difficult. Will keep trying though. Plenty of scrap laying around.
@@frbrable I've been doing the 1/4-1/4-1/4 joint on the table saw for a while...it works, its pretty good, but if ya have to change blades plan of starting over...its basically a pain in the butt... Had a router lift on my wish list for a yr...finally found one for just over a $100...think I'm obligated to start using the bit...wouldn't even think of trying it without a lift. I have yet to try 'em but they come highly recommended...Miller steeped wooden dowels.
Old video, so probably won't get a response, but I'll try anyway. What ear protection is being used?
ISOtunes PRO
when you are making these boxes or getting the wood prepared for them,,,how do you cut the front and back to fit the sides that give you the width,,,,,,lol,,i hope you understand what im saying
HI Jeff, You probably figured it out by now but if you're still wondering, this joint does not shorten the width of the drawer front or back. So if your drawer slides call to shorten the width by 1 inch for the width of both slides then that dimension stays the same. However you will have to get your adjustment so the front web left by the cutter is very close to perfect. You adjust this with your fence adjustment. Once you get it perfect save your test pieces, mark which is the front and which is the side. Then use these to set up your bit and fence each time.
Great video. We are redoing our kitchen and I am making all the cabinets. I bought one of these bits. What I need to know, though, is what thickness of stock can you do with them. I have searched the web and haven't found that answer. What is the minimum and maximum thickness possible with these bits.
Great question! I have forwarded your question to our experts. Please allow 1-2 business days for their response. We will post it here.
Check with the manufacturer for the bit that you bought, but generally this style bit will support a material thickness range of 1/2" to 3/4".
Pau
@@Wwgoa thanks for the reply. I just bought a cheap bit off Amazon to see If I liked it so there isn't a manufacturer to contact.
Seems like a lot of work for a joint that doesn't look like it will be very strong. A good dovetail jig like the (porter cable) is a lot quicker to set up and will be a much stronger joint.
MAGA MAN how so? Mechanical joint with a good amount of glue surface, add in a bottom and it's probably just as strong as a dovetail and done in a lot less time.
are you kidding the dove tail jig is a pain in the ass to set up i could hand cut them quicker
I'd just put a rabbet in the front , with two sides to glue it'll be plenty strong for a drawer .
I guess you need to get everything set up so you can figure the exact width needed for a drawer, if using drawer slides (which wants the drawer width to be 1" less than the opening). Then you can mass cut your drawer parts. Does anyone have a better way of accomplishing this?
I've watched 2-3 videos and they give different directions regarding setting the fence and bit. This video seems best because you use the same fence setting and bit cut/height for both pieces of wood. No resetting the fence as in another video.
info très intéressantes !
Looks like a great idea to make scrap timber in rubbish bin timber.
Good video but in the time it takes to set up I could have done dove tails
I just now got my router table and bit all set so I can make the front and side passes with no further adjustment. Now, if my table and router will just stay set.
How do I formulate the length of the sides, front & back...just add a 1/2" to the length of the sides?
That should be right, but always test with scrap to determine whether there is any variation in your stock or your setup.
@@WwgoaThank you for your quick reply.
Which brand bit are you using? I see bits of different width; 2", 1" and 3/4"...I build a lot 1/2" baltic birch drawers. I use a single speed router (PC) so I don't think a 2" wide would be appropriate. thanks again.
Why not measure the error and adjust accordingly. Saves a lot of time making adjustments using trial and error.
Why not adjust one at a time?
Thanks
You sound a lot like people who do the Dragon ball abridged series
If you have a table saw, how about just a rabbit and dado. That’s going to be plenty strong.
I have been looking at these type of bit's at MLCS woodworking they offer set up blocks for these type of bits do you think these would be worth the $10.00 cost? I am new to woodworking & do not have a router lift.
Vince Baker I'm relatively new to wood working myself and have a Dewalt 2 3/4 HP router that I fastened a square foot of 1/4 Plexiglas to and I've found that I can make pretty precise adjustments where it pulls up out of my table with the surface still attached. If your setup is like that you may not need a router lift. However that kreg lift looks real nice
Hello Vince,
It's hard to say. If they are perfectly matched to your material size
then they might be worth it to you. I don't mind going through the
setup process manually every once in a while. If I did the same setup a
lot I would use setup blocks. Once you set it up once, you could make
your own setup blocks, however.
Thanks,
Paul
WoodWorkers Guild of America Video Membership
Such set up blocks can represent excellent value, particularly for someone without much experience. As has already been mentioned, they'll only work perfectly if your stock is milled to the exact dimensions the set up blocks were made for. That is, if your stock is over or under size by 1/8", the set up blocks will just get you close. But close is probably much better than you would do on your own. Once you're close, and once you've seen this video, you should be able to get the rest of the way without too much trouble.
Vince, I think the set up blocks will get you pretty close. Like someone else said, if your stock is milled to the same spec as the set up block then I guess it would work the first time. BUT, as you know, half inch ply is not a true half inch. Personally, I use the set up block to get me in the ball park and then fine tune from there. Once I have it, because I use a router lift and an Incra fence, I write down the measurements rather than using my test cut as my new set up block. I did this procedure this past weekend on a Lapped Miter bit set that I just purchased. The lapped miter gives you a mitered corner plus some fancy angles within the joint for a lot of glue surface.
@@befmx31 thanks for the advice you gave me a lot to think about 😀
looks like you need to plan for a extra hour out of your day for set up
Why leave the side proud? Just adjust the fence until it's perfect.
Why did you destroy your factory fence? Wtf?
Pretty much the same joint on the table saw in half the time
I was just going to add the comments from B Miller
Why don’t you use feeler gauges to make your micro adjustments? It would make your trial and error go so much faster. In making furniture you should get used to working with thousandths of an inch.
That would complicate the video with no benefit to the topic. The presentation is on how changes in bit position affect the joint, not how to make precise changes in bit position.
Though to your point, I think a short video with tips on how to determine and make micro-adjustments WOULD be a good one! It would apply to all sorts of things, not just drawer joints...
Bill Gatliff just a suggestion in case you hadn’t thought of it. Nice video keep it it.
too much bother quicker to make blind dovetails :-)
michael collins
They're stronger too.
Weak joint, there's a reason it's not well known.
“Approximately” and “starting point”? Sorry, but I need to be more efficient than that in my shop.
One thing the video did prove is that Kreg set up bars are a waste money!!