How To Look After Your Electric Car Batteries When Not In Use!
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2020
- Even before all this staying at home was as common I got constant questions about what's best to do when leaving an electric car for a prolonged period of time.
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I just read the 2019 eGolf manual on charging. Here is the summary:
Explicitly described:
1. For long term storage, the battery should be charged 40-60% (page 229)
2. Only initiate a charge when the current capacity is below 98%. If charged frequently and consecutively when at or above 98%, capacity will be decreased. (page 229)
3. Frequent and consecutive DC fast charging can permanently decrease the capacity. Recommended to AC charge between DC fast charge sessions. (page 229, page 230, page 236)
4. Battery may not function at -16 ^(o)F (page 229)
5. capacity will degrade if exposed to +118 ^(o)F for 24 hours or more (page 229)
6. Damage may occur when charge level is low and temperature is high (page 230)
7. "Charging up to a higher battery charge level helps to preserve the high-voltage battery" (page 233, when describing the max battery charge setting in e-manager)
Tom Guyatt - So no mention of the 12v battery.
@@dcvariousvids8082 Page 220, The vehicle electrical system cannot always prevent the 12v battery from discharging. For example when the ignition is switched on for an extended period with the engine off, or when the side or parking lights are on when the vehicle is parked for an extended period.
It seems the above advice is more suited to an ICE Golf, not an e-Golf. But that's pretty much all it says about the 12v battery. So I'd say the battery has to be maintained manually.
My MG ZS EV does not automatically top up the 12v battery. Some new owners who have not turned the car on to the fully 'READY' state leaving the start button with the amber light on and then started to play with the tech in the car have not realised they are using the 12v battery and it's gone flat. Top tip if playing with tech / running HVAC etc in MG ZS EV please ensure you switch the car in to full 'READY / GREEN light' mode as this charges the 12v battery from the high voltage drive train battery :-)
Jake Newiss That sounds like great advice, I am looking to get one of the MG ZS EV as soon as possible after the lockdown ends.
I will remember this advice.
@@garypunter412 there is a Face book group is you are interested facebook.com/groups/MGElectricVehicleOwners/
Can you connect a 12v battery charger/maintainer to keep the 12v battery charged without attention or must you switch it on to keep the the battery charge maintained?
There are instructions in the manual to care for batteries when storing car. Page 290 for low voltage and 292 for high voltage.
I must be weird, I love reading the manuals cover to cover
Nothing weird about it. I still find it weird how some of my colleagues come to me asking advice on how to operate something on their brand new cars.... 😑🙄
I always download the manuals before actually getting the car or what ever I bought. I study everything about it before I get the car/device. Call me crazy, but I would be embarrassed if I had to ask some of my friends or relatives advice on something I bought.
EWheeler Finland no need to be embarrassed unless the answer is in the manual.
@@JohnR31415 😜 Well, obviously hehe
I pick up my MG5 EV in about 4 weeks and have already downloaded and fully read the driver's manual. and I am a man!
Your best video this year, Mate
Kia e-Niro UK First Edition manual, pages 64 and 65: According to that section of the manual the battery saver function has two modes, 1. Cycle Mode and 2. Automatic Mode. For the purpose of this discussion, Automatic Mode is irrelevant because it only activates when the power switch is on and the car is plugged in to a charger. This discussion concerns the charging of the auxiliary battery from the traction battery when the car stays unused for days (or longer). In that case the Cycle Mode is the only one that would apply and there is no mention in that section of the manual of there being any limit on the number of times that the battery saver would operate. "The Aux. Battery Saver+ is a function that monitors the charging status of the 12 V auxiliary battery. If the auxiliary battery level is low, the main high voltage battery charges the auxiliary battery."
John Page Kia Soul is the same.
Your videos have been good throughout the lockdown.
We plug the SR+ in as soon as we get back after a journey, on a simple 3 pin 3kw socket, and keep it topped up to 70%, for what it’s worth. You can keep sentry mode etc flying, this way.
Thank you!
I have been waiting for this video so thanks. However, perhaps I should have bit the bullet and RTFM like you said (I suppose I may do so tomorrow...). Your lockdown videos have been good, can I subscribe twice?
Renault Zoe won't charge the 12v when off and in sleep mode. Opening a door initiates the 12v charge but will stop when the car sleeps again in about 10 minutes. Repeat or turn the car on to Ready mode. I'm parked on my drive and I personally use a small cheap 2.5w solar panel plugged in to the OBD port as this has a permanent 12v even when the car goes to sleep, unlike the 12v auxiliary socket which also sleeps.
Useful to know. What’s the OBD port?
@@devbrix1 On Board Diagnostic port that communicates to the car's ECU. On a ZE22 and ZE40 It's located in the centre console under the front rubber mat.
I took delivery of my e Niro in July 2019. Same reason I chose it - could not get in and out of M3 with dignity - but I am 75!
Confirm that top up of 12V battery is automatic - but you must set the option - I believe it is not the default. Sorry I have not read the manual I don't do that.
For future e Niro owners I have charged my car on public chargers only 3 times! Once in Chester when I did a return trip to North Wales at Polar Holiday Inn Chester racecourse no issues 50 minute charge while I ate lunch, Second time at Eurotunnel Folkstone then drove to Ghent and back to Eurotunnel Coquelles with 4 people and luggage. Recharged at Eurotunnel Coquelles then home to Bracknell via Hornchurh and two stops in London. The two eurotunnel fast charges were free - Chester cost me about £4.
I bought the e Niro because I needed a car that would do 200 miles in the winter. I worked out the mileage by downloading and analysing data from Google Maps Timeline since 2014. I have had to do two journeys since lockdown both about 35 miles each. They were both non motorway and I got 5.2 miles per Kwh - for me that is very cheap as my tariif is 5p per Kwh at night. In the "old days" before lockdown foot down on the motorway I was getting about 4.2 so that's over 1p per mile.
Hope this information is useful for new EV drivers. The best bit is I have not been in a petrol station since June 2019 and I can inflate my car tyres in my garage with the door closed without dying from CO fumes!!
Mines on the default I believe and it's happening on mine.
Excellent content with great gaggs! 🔋⚡😂🌈 Leamington Spa ✅
The I-Pace charges its 12v battery from the HVB (High Voltage Battery) as and when it needs to.drops below certain level without the need for the car to be turned on. The battery management protects the HVB as it has a upper and lower buffer which you can't get to. As such Jaguar have said that charging to 100% is not a problem and have only advised that users minimise rapid charging were possible. The car also goes into "sleep mode" after 96 hours of no interaction to conserve battery. I (and other I-Pace users) have seen battery drops of 3-5% over the course of 14 day and that's more than likely because we use an always on dash cam. Otherwise, it would be less. I hope that helps.
I use a Ctek charger to look after the 12v. Works brilliantly
Volvo XC40 Hybrid:
The starter battery is also charged when the car is plugged in.
For long term storage (months) the hybrid battery is recommended to be left at about 25%.
Another great video EVM my m s 70d vampire drain is alot better when I turn off the connectivity setting
Good informative video..
Good advice here for all Li-ion batteries. I have managed to make my smartphone battery last for years with little degradation thanks to keeping it in the 30-70% charge range.
Indeed, the second and third sentences in the Battery Information section of the Model S manual are, including the all caps: “ The most important way to preserve the battery is to LEAVE YOUR VEHICLE PLUGGED IN when you are not using it. This is particularly important if you are not planning to drive your Model S for several weeks.” The manual also says it periodically uses energy from the battery for system tests and recharge the 12V battery when necessary.
When you leave it on, and with Sentry Mode always on, it drains around 3-4% per day on a 75D, and since it automatically tops up the battery after it drops around 3%, that means it usually charges once per day. Obviously, if going away for two weeks while leaving it unplugged at an airport car park, that could mean a 50% drain on the battery, so it would obviously be advisable to look to ensure the airport car park has a security camera and leave Sentry Mode off, which drops the discharge rate to around half a percent per day (the manual says approximately 1%) if you make sure you don’t launch your Tesla app, which wakes up the car from sleep. But some airports are now including EV charge points in long term car park facilities, which is cool.
Great information here and agree 60% minimum if left for 2 weeks while on holiday
I3 tops up battery when stationary. Also keep in mind that you can program some cars to limit the level as to what the battery should be charged up to. So around 70-80% is optimal.
Leaf 40 will look after itself even if parked and turned off it will top up the 12v battery if it needs it.
Many thanks
Thanks - confirmed, page EV-5. "When the electric vehicle system is off for an extended time, the 12-volt battery may be automatically charged for a short period of time on a regular basis." (I'm a little concerned about the 'may' part though!)
Dash Cam East: I think this is just poor phraseology and you can safely read ‘will’ in place of ‘may’. The Owners Manual for my 30 kWh Leaf says the same thing and I’ve been able to confirm with LeafSpy over the last 2 months while I’ve hardly used the car while furloughed and haven’t needed to charge it, that the 12 volt battery maintains its voltage even against the drain of the alarm system.
Thank you! It's not only men who don't read the manual!
I took the decision to retire my 1st gen Prius over a year ago and put an order in for an eNero.. it landed in the UK during the first weeks of lockdown. I picked it up 3 weeks ago 14 months after placing the order.
Your channel has provided so many pieces of information I should perhaps have found out before the new car arrived.
1st thing I didn't realise, and should have found out if I'd researched properly- a normal household plug just won't be suitable for a weekly charge if I need to drive at the weekend.
This vampire drain video- makes perfect sense, I just didn't think 😳
20 to 80 percent charge zone...oops, Ive charged to 100% from 70% each time. (Admittedly only twice due to home working just now)
Do you have any "must watch " recommendations for a new EVdriver? I'm working my way through them all, but I don't need the test drive ones, but the ones for numpties who didn't do proper research before purchasing 🤣🤣
Although not quite the same thing, I use a lot of lithium polymer batteries for radio-controlled model flying. The recommended long-term storage charge is between 30 and 50%, which is pretty much what you were saying. Of course, in my case - there is no 'vampire' drainage, because the battery is totally disconnected when not actually in use, but there is still a small amount of charge loss over a period. A battery left at 100% for a month will only have about 90% when it is next connected. Some of that could be different manufacture and design use, of course.
Original Kia Soul, not the 2020 one, battery charges when switched on to driving mode and when a charger is connected.
At the start of the zombie apocalypse Tesla told me to reduce the normal 90% daily charge to 80% and leave the car plugged in and the computer will sort it out, once use becomes regular change it back to 90% (model 3, uk)
Hyundai Ioniq 28kW:
(My excuses for the sometimes odd phrasing. My manual is in Dutch, so I have translated everything below into English for your convenience. I have decided to translate as literally as possible instead of interpreting the original text)
On the main battery, page H3: "In the car a high voltage battery is present which powers the electro motor and air-conditioning, and a normal battery (12 V) that powers the lighting, screen wipers and audio system.
The normal battery is charged automatically when the car is in Ready modus (icon of car with arrows) or when the high voltage battery is being charged."
On page H5: "State of charge of the high voltage battery can decrease gradually when the car is not being driven.
The capacity of the high voltage battery can decrease if the car is parked at high/low temperatures."
On page H6: "If the car will not be used for a long period of time, the high power battery must be charged every three months to prevent discharge.
Also the the high voltage battery must be fully charged when the state of charge gets too low, before the car is parked.
To keep the high voltage battery in optimal condition it is being advised to charge the car using the normal charging procedure ['normal' is described elsewhere in the manual as Level2 AC charging]
When the state of charge of the high voltage battery is lower than 20% you can keep the high voltage battery in optimal condition by charging it to 100%. (Advised is doing this at least once per moth)"
On the 12V battery, page 7-21: "When the car will not be used for a long period of time in an area with low temperatures, remove the battery and store it inside.
Always fully charge the battery to prevent the battery being damaged in an area with low temperatures."
So to summarize: always charge to 100% before leaving it for a long time. If leaving it where it is very cold (probably they mean freezing), remove the 12V battery.
The car by the way has a hidden buffer of unused battery capacity (as with most EVs, except Tesla). So charging it to 100% doesn't actually charge the battery to 100%.
Andy can you do something on keeping the car Temp down in hot sunny weather , particularly Tesla Model 3 - no garage here and it was 45 degrees in the sunshine with window vents open !! What sunshades ? What zircon settings etc?? Don’t want to melt the plastic dashboard covering!!
At the moment, I'm going out once a week in my Leaf to do the shopping. I go the long way round and do about 20-30 miles. If the traction battery gets below about 20% I'll charge it back up to 50-60%. I connect the 12v battery once very couple of weeks to a maintenance charger I fixed to the wall in the garage., After having a dodgy 12v battery, I learned to not trust the car to keep it properly charged when it's not in regular use (!)
Never mind electric cars I've worked on plenty of range rovers with vampire drains😁
The Tesla is unique in that you can configure the charge level of the traction battery. Most EVs display a virtual battery to the user, my BMW i3 included. When the i3 shows 100% charged, the traction battery is not at 100%, probably closer to 85-90%. This is because the battery management software prevents the traction battery from ever being fully charged, or fully depleted. In my i3 120Ah, this means the 42kWh traction battery, has about 37 to 39kWh of usable charge - this is hidden from the owner/user of the vehicle by the battery management system, which displays information about the virtual battery state of charge, not the 'real' battery. All of which means for us non-Tesla owners, charging to 100% as shown on the dashboard is perfectly safe for the long term health of your traction batteries.
When you mentioned vampire drain l smiled & thought, yes he is a proper Tesla owners now.
Lol was thinking exactly the same 😀😀😀
M3 has negligible vampire drain these days
Great content. From what I've learned, the traction battery in my EV keeps the car battery charged. And I know that with the Nissan leaf, the car needs to be on in order for this to happen. Now a question, would you happen to know what would be the largest wattage inverter I can hook up to that 12v battery so I can take advantage of the 24kw battery sitting there in my driveway to power my home in the case of a power disruption?
1% a day vampire drain on the Model 3bsounds a bit over-estimate to me (I know it said it in the manual). I've been away on holiday for 2-3 weeks a few times and always averaged 0.5%/day. Whatever you do, don't leave Sentry Mode on though, that'll use about 5%/day!
Agree, my tesla 3 LR used about 1% when not used for 4 days. The way the battery readout works means i could have been at a high 61% and a low 60% when i next used it. So could have been nearly 2%. The vampire drain I experience is thankfully much lower than I expected.
E-Niro charges the 12v when needed. Even when not plugged in. Charge light 3 will flash when this happens.
yup - have come back to the car in a evening after walking the dog and this has been happening...
Nissan LEAF Tekna 40kw. 2 years old.
After initial lockdown I decided to take car for short 'spin' (of motor) after about one week.
12v battery was flat. After charging for 40 minutes car was ok.
BUT, BTW, also removed LEAFspy dongle which I blame for drawing down the 12v. Since then I have had a very few 2 mile motor 'spin' trips and a few click 'n' collect trips for groceries, a bit further as we're in a rural location.
Based on your useful advice I presume my very limited use is the reason that there has been no bother since. Would you recommend my motor 'spinning' trips or is simply switching on sufficient? Thanks.
As a rule all batteries discharge at 1% a day, that is why at retailers we use chargers in showroom, Once battery taken out of transit mode (at PDI) then you must either use car or have conditioner charger connected.
For my 2017 (1st gen) Chevy Bolt EV - Short term is to keep the main battery between 50-80 percent charged. Hardly any vampire drain on this car. But the 12V needs a battery tender on it occasionally like once a week since the car is always “on” running computers and calling home to OnStar. Apparently the main battery will only top off the 12V while driving or when plugged into Level 2.
Page 266 in the 2019 manual:
Four Weeks to 12 Months
Discharge the high voltage battery until two or three bars remain on the battery range indicator (Battery symbol) on the instrument cluster.
Do not plug in the charge cord.
Remove the black negative (−) cable from the 12-volt battery and attach a trickle charger to the battery terminals or keep the12-volt battery cables connected and trickle charge from the underhood remote positive (+) and negative (−) terminals.
There is also a Transportation Mode that can be turned on/off.
Manual says iPace floats the 12v battery. No info specifically about long term down time or trickle charger use. Says to remove 12v if its flat. But my MG 260 says that as well but is happy a Larry to be inplace when trickle charging.
What about storing your car for six months ? We go South in Winter but car (Genesis GV60) will be in garage and not very cold. Should you leave it plugged in to house current and will battery management still work with car off ? Thanks, love your vids ! Michael in Canada
Pay attention to the temperature. A car like the Model 3 with active thermal management is going to have to do some things to keep the battery a little warmer during very cold periods of disuse. This will substantially increase your drain. If you're leaving your car sit in sub zero temps... plug it it.
I own a Kona EV. Its on-board computer takes care of keeping the 12 V battery topped up and tells you about it, to boot. A small green light in the front grill comes on to inform you the charging cycle is engaged. I notice if the car sits unused for three or four days I see the light come on occasionally. Not sure how long the cycle is, but I'd guess around 30 minutes or so. A friend has a Kia Niro. From what he tells me it uses the same top-up process, only the indicator light burns steadily on my Kona while on his Niro it flashes.
Aaaaahhhhh panic just charged up to 100%, never mind was a free charge 🖖🍻🐙 Energy!
I believe batteries stored at 100% degrade slightly quicker than those stored at say 90%? hence the need for long term storage at 80%-90% to help prolong it's life.
Hi Andy, Interesting report, thank you. Your recommendation regarding charge cycling when not in use doesn’t agree with what Nissan advise for the 30 kWh LEAF so as you’ve asked for comments for each EV model, I offer the following:
For my early 2017 30kWh LEAF, page EV-23 of the Owner’s Manual states:
To maximise the battery’s useful life, use the following driving and charging habits where possible:
* Recharge fully, from 10% or less to 100% using AC Normal Charge. (My comment for clarification: Normal charge is when plugged into a non-rapid charger such as at home).
* If the vehicle will not be used for an extended period of time allow the battery charge level to drop below 6 bars (My comment for clarification: This equates to 50% charge or less) before parking and disconnect the charge cable. Check the charge level every 3 months and recharge (if necessary) to maintain 2 bars minimum. (My comment for clarification: The bottom 2 bars are those in the red zine on the dashboard state if charge indicator).
* Avoid leaving the vehicle for over 14 days with a very low state of charge.
etc.
Note the 24 kWh LEAFs allowed the user to set a maximum charge limit of 80% even when slow or normal charging at home. At the time, Nissan claimed this would reduce the rate of battery degradation, but when the 30 kWh LEAF was introduced with its improved battery technology, this feature was no longer provided. My local Nissan dealer was unaware of this or the reason for the change so I e-mailed Nissan Customer Services to ask why. They replied (eventually) to say that the feature was discontinued because analysis of data from a large number of LEAFs showed no benefit, and the recommendation as quoted above, to charge to 100%, was substituted instead.
Hope this helps, and keep up the good work.
M3SR+ arrived last week, setting the lower limit to 60% now...
For the record, for a Mitsubishi PHEV “When the car is stopped, the main battery will charge the 12v auxiliary one, every day at 2 pm, but only if the car is plugged in”
I've been wondering if it is possible to use one of the small portable Lithium jump starters to bring a discharged 12v battery up to a level that would start an EV such as Kia Niro EV. Would it be deleterious to the 12v system?
Renault Zoe ZE40 will not charge the 12v
On the e208 the manual just says the traction battery will “automatically charge the 12v battery”
BMW i3 recommendation is to charge to 100% - i think 100% is actually more like 92% as it leaves a buffer to keep the battery safe. They also recommend plugging it in if you are leaving it - something to do with cell balancing. Tesla varies in vampire drain - much worse if you leave sentry mode on (2% or more per day), but generally less than 1% per day IME.
Yes, the BMW party line is ABC "Always Be Charging". The "don't charge to 100" advice seems to be Tesla-specific. Other brands use larger built-in buffers. But just as you won't kill your Tesla by storing it at 81%, you won't kill an i3 by leaving it at 99% either! Having said that, I left my glovebox open for a few days and the little glovebox light drained the 12v completely.
Yep. My i3 has been plugged in for weeks. So much so that spiders now inhabit almost all areas!
Haven’t read this “manual” thingy (it sounds truly emasculating) but if I remember correctly the BMW i3 beastie doesn’t even have a 12 volt battery. As the car’s ignition is cycled, it it isolates different cells in its traction battery. These cells act as a virtual 12volt battery and the car balances the traction battery by using different cells for this purpose each time the ignition is cycled.
@@catchgrappler sorry, but you are not remembering correctly: ruclips.net/video/lKRj8gLcsfI/видео.html
@@clasqmCorrect the I 3 does have a small 12 volt battery.
If needed which portable generator would be best for charging an electric car? Honda 7kw or 3KW, Yamaha also do good portable generators
On the M3 it is Sentry Mode that seriously drains my battery, at 20% the battery turns it off until the battery is charged, fortunately the phone app notifies you.
Handy to know EVM but more to the point is, I'm picking my Kia Niro up Friday, tried getting in and out of a model 3 but found it was just to low
I'm still waiting to pick my Niro up, my dealer is still closed and have no idea where the car is.
@@danlovett2158 well, if it's any help I ordered mine in April 19
Mercedes-Benz EQC will only charge the 12v when the car ignition is on.
Excellent video once again. Regarding the 12V battery going dead and not being able to start the EV would it not be very useful if one had a portable power bank to connect to the battery to get you up and running again.
John Smith Just a normal 12v car battery booster.
I have have a Mini Countryman Se All4 PHEV delivered June 2018. As a seaman I do 4 months on 4 months off the ship (until I retired in April 2020!) - I couldn’t find any info in the manual so asked their tech geek in the showroom and was told “set the charge in the dashboard settings (note you CANNOT set it from the app) to low charge rate to charge during the off peak electric period, if its winter set it to precondition the cabin temperature to put some load on the battery. It should top up the 12v battery too” . The use of the word “should” by the geek concerned me a bit as if he wasn’t sure so I also connected a £10 1.5v solar panel trickle charger to the 12v battery as a just incase back-up. Never had any issues with the car other than the electric range meter is wildly inaccurate! - understating the amount of electric range by about 30%............ since lock down I’ve covered 94 miles all purely electrically powered now my concern is how long I can continue without using any of the petrol in the still full petrol tank before the octane rating diminishes...........no body in BMW can answer that question.
i do believe Bjørn Nyland who has a Norwegian Tesla centric channel, parked either his model X or model 3, cant remember which :(, at a airport in Norway in the brass monkeys cold, and flew to Vietnam for a month, and when he returned despite no use , it had retained as my memory serves me correctly 90% of its charge ,and he got in it and drove away OK, Bearing in mind there brass monkeys temperature's are more severe than Yorkshire temperature's, hope this helps, or another solution is you can lend me your Tesla for the duration of Covid, and i keep it charged with occasional shopping use and charging ,no charge Mr EVM :)
Hyundai Kona electric 2020.
This is an attempt to translate from a swedish manual:
Batterysavefunction for 12 volt battery is activated when the car is delivered. There are two fuctions.
CYCLIC: When power is OFF and all doors, hood, and tailgate is closed, the 12-volt battey will be charged when neseccary.
AUTOMATIC: When power is ON and the car is charging, a function that prevents overcharging of the 12-volt battery is activated.
They also write: If the car is to be parked for an extended period, charge the battery at least once every three months. If the battery is not charged, charge it to the maximum before parking.
If the battery is charged to less than 20%, charge it to 100% to maintain optimum performance.
The model 3’s vampire drain is bad. Try activating Sentry mode for an even funnier result!
Thanks for another quality video EVMan 👌
It has become better with successive software updates. Sentry mode is the main culprit if active, also polling the car via the app. effectively waking it up from deep sleep causes drain. Since the lock down and without sentry mode or continually waking it via the app. I've not lost many percent for all these weeks and that was with the last two software updates being performed. I think it was 56% seven weeks ago and today it was 42%
Allister Bullock - Great insight into what can cause this and am glad to hear you’ve had decent results recently! (with less polling and software updates). I’ve had mine for under two weeks and it’s reassuring to hear about practical (battery related) fixes from software updates. Thank you for your helpful input!
"The model 3’s vampire drain is bad" - not in my experience. I reckon you have APPs running, or Sentry Mode. Both my M3 and MS have been doing 1 trip and than 10 miles a week. M3 loss is negligible (typically unmeasurable on days when it is not driven, and 0.75kWh if it is), MS has always had some vampire drain, currently its been running around 1% per day.
EcoK Thanks for your input, I’ve had a recent software update (from 2020.08.3) I’ll keep an eye on App usage to stop unnecessarily waking up the car (as others have also added)
You'll be pleased to know that the Tesla manual is a tad bit outdated with regards to the 1% vampire drain per day. They have since improved on this quite considerably. I've seen a few videos where people have measured 0.4% drain per day. I can vouch for that too as I've seen similar drains on my Model 3 LR. The key is to not open the app if you don't need to as this wakes up the Tesla and ultimately drains more battery.
I frequently see 1% per day. I have a smaller battery than yours though.
I also have seen way less than 1% but it does have the large battery and I don't often poll the car via the app. I think I've seen 12% loss in six or seven weeks but performed 2 updates in that period.
Manual reading and vampire drains . Need to stay in lockdown !!
Buffer the Vampire slayer?
VW GTE 12 v goes flat after 3 weeks. Large battery required to "jump start" or put on a 12v charger for a while.
Model 3 vampire drain is much much much improved in the latest update, even with sentry on.
2020.12.11.1
To me sentry mode drain appears to be related to the number of events it records. There is a steady state drain plus an amount per event.
You just had a UFO fly over your sun roof Andy. That's cool mate. (9.30) Strange it only was visible through you sun roof. ?? Great video though. Take care. Stay safe. Steve
Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh will charge the 12V battery from the main battery when off. The third (nearside) of the 3 charging LEDs will blink whilst this is happening. I saw this a couple of weeks ago with the car parked outside and not plugged in - had to look it up to see what it means!
Confirmed that. And the ionic will display a message saying it has done so.
On my Mini Electric, the manual says "the 12v battery is maintenance free". Not very helpful. Nothing about what charges it and how, but my guess is its the same as the i3 - which gets charged from the main battery when needed.
I'm not sure either about the function or the effectiveness of 12-volt charging in 2011-12 Nissan Leafs, switched off continuously without interruption for long periods. My experience suggests the standard 12 V battery is not really up to it, possibly because it appears to be an automotive battery designed for occasionally cranking an ICE car from fully charged, where a deep cycle battery might withstand hibernation (extended periods of disuse) better. So, twice I came back to my car after a month or so and had to recharge the 12-volt battery by after disconnecting it from the car. The car cannot be switched on or driven or the traction battery charged when the 12-volt battery is flat. I've since purchased a new a new ICE car battery but haven't had occasion to leave the car sitting for a month, even in today's world. My experience could have just been due to the age of the 12 V battery.
Can't seem to find the e golf
ie always wondered if Tesla add the cost of vampire drain into the savings over time they always quote. lol
Kia eNiro manual was made up as they went along. But from the owners groups some say 10 cycles others say they have seen 12 of the car charging the 12v from the main battery. But this needs to be switched on on the settings "battery saver"
that is correct you said it better than i did in my post above.
The 80/20 rule exists in lots of electrical items, in safety critical industries, like the nuclear industry, if incandescent bulbs were used a special circuit is used, off is 20% brightness and on is (you guessed it) 80% on. This 80/20 rule means that components are not running at extremes, heating and cooling, pulling larger start up currents etc. As a real world example, critical (or hard to access) incandescent bulbs, in an 80/20 circuit can last many many years, never "blowing" as they never get the shock of a 0 to 100% power up. (Why use incandescent? Many years ago there was no choice, today they are still used in situations where a strobe effect of cheap LEDs or Fluorescents could be dangerous)
yes , a well known youtuber parked his model3 in airport & flew to Thailand .. then got suck there for about 6 weeks .. look for Bjørn Nyland ( but most of you already knew who i meant )
Is it possible to put a solar panel trickle charger say from halfords in the 12v socket to top up the battery when left ??
Just put it on the 12v itself.
What width is your garage door? I've something similar and am finding it a bit tight.
Mine is 215cm. M3 with wing mirrors unfolded (useful for reversing out) is 209! Door frame is wooden - planning some "adjustments"...
I left my Model 3 at Airport for 14 days in March. It only lost 5% of charge.
Looking for replies regarding ZE50 Zoe. Maybe I’ll google it. Contemplating 12 day cruise in October after driving to Southampton. The hotel has a destination charger, but don’t want to fill it to 100%. I must remember to set a charge limit of 80%
With batteries improving (higher capacity, lighter, smaller, etc...) almost every week, I'm thinking that today's battery pack has a 400w (just numbers) capacity, in a year lets say it has a 600w (more just numbers) capacity?
I would think that a 60% to 80% charge capacity range could become 45% to 90% (again just numbers) but I'm sure you know where I'm coming from?
Hopefully we'll have a charge capacity range of 10% to 95%, with a range at least twice an average ICE, with a recharging rate twice as fast to fill an average fuel tank.
Of course that's with the idea of being able to take extended road trips discovering America with family and/or friends (ah the 50s, 60s). ;-)
What have to check the manual, we men we don’t do that as we know what we are doing. But do you have any instructions on how to use a manual🤭
ID 3 needs to be on to charge 12v
I was hoping for your opinion on the ideal charge limit for long term storage when you leave the car plugged in, as Tesla strongly encourages.
Peter Epstein Same applies.
@@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for answering. When plugged in you don't have to worry about vampire drain because it'll top up as needed. So I'm surprised by your answer.
Max 80% applies I mean.
Hi evm I have a m s its vampire drain is up to 3% a day
I recently changed the battery charge level from 100% to 80% on my 2014 Leaf but when charged using the timer, for off peak rates, it charges to 100%. Anyone any ideas? Thanks.
Edit: Sorted, I had to change it on the timer schedule as well.
Found a 350kW CCS, M1, Leeds Skelton Lake Services, 75p/kw
Have they finally finished building that place?
Toyota recommend 30 minutes running a week (with the car 'ready' light on) to maintain their self charging hybrid. Which ironically does not self charge the 12v battery at all not just when it is not turned on but it appears not to charge it when the ignition is on and the ready light is showing.I have just spent three hours charging my 12v battery up, even though the traction battery is half charged with a car battery charger. It is as if the 12v battery is only charged when the engine is running which is strange as it does not have a 12v alternator. Please can I get rid this thing and have a proper EV?
so if you have a 150 mile drive to get to the airport, you will have nothing left after 2-3 weeks to get home ! Best get someone to take you to the airport ! So its not just 'range anxiety' you also have 'parked anxiety' to contend with !!
First statement is wrong (or at least misleading). The 12v battery would need to be absolutely completely dead in order for you not to be able to start a manual transaxle. I have had manual transaxles right up until I switched to EVs (both of my cars are EVs) and I could start any of the many manual transaxles I owned by myself when it had a dead battery. I've done it dozens of times over the years. It is one of the reasons that I would only buy manual transaxles.
My last ICE (which I just got rid off 3 months ago) was a 2007 Ford Fusion manual transmission.
😑 My Skoda Citigo iv manual doesn't say, if / when / how the 12V battery is topped up during normal use... Urgh. Have to perform some tests using multimeter.
I have an eUP. Grateful to know what you find out. Nothing in the manual..
Everything's down, were all dead Dave.
Some people disconnect ( completely) the 12V battery every month for a day to use a battery conditioner like a CTEK to prolong the life of the 12V battery, can you do that with a Tesla?
No need.
From my experience over the last few weeks, my Model 3 has been parked on the street uncharging. It has been losing 1% every 3-4 days. It tends to lose 1-2% on the first parked day after being driven, but after than it slows right down.
This is what I also observed when the car is allowed to sleep.
2 weeks? What if you want to do a 1 year round the world trip? What should you do then if you don't want to sell your car?
ygg drasil if you go to mars it will take even longer
I am often away for a few months at a time, I just leave the Model X plugged in at home with a max of 70%. It has been fine over the last 4 years being treated like this.
My Nissan Leaf has the solar panel on the spoiler for the 12v battery, So fortunately I'm ok on this.
A specific addon for the old model.
What if it's parked in a garage? No sun!
@@xchopp I can't fit it in the garage so no problems there, I wouldn't leave my bike's out.
I forgot to remove the dongle I use for Leaf Spy from the OBD port. 12v was flat within a week. Solar wasn’t enough. Lesson learned.
I have a fossil car yet, but in every year i go to the airport and leaving my car there for 3-4 weeks, and my car have no problem when i came back from my holyday. I would like to know, without any charge, electric car can do the same?
ATS It’s all in the video. Short answer is yes.
Tesla model S automatically charges the 12v batter, UNLESS the main battery falls below 5% and the car goes into low power state (to keep the main battery alive for a month). So heed EVM advice owhen leaving car at the airport. In lockdown, leave the model S plugged in with charge level set to 80%. It automatically wakes up and charges as necessary to maximise battery life. References; Owners manual p.140.
Just to clarify it is lithium batteries that like the 20% to 80% safe range. 12v lead acid batteries need to be kept fully charged to maximise their life span.
My e-Niro 20 plate says with Aux.battery Saver+ enabled (it is) it should charge the 12v from the traction battery when called for BUT my dealer says the car only charges the aux when driving/charging the traction battery. My 6 month old regularly-driven car went dead this week. Aux. reading less than 6v. Removed and fully recharged the battery with an electronic charger but it went dead again the next day - three times! And this included a 3 hour charge of the traction battery (at 7.8kWh). Going in to dealer tomorrow but so far they refuse to concede that this is known issue. "It must be something to do with the way you are using, or not using, the car." I think the issue is that the battery in an EV does not get the high demand "shock" that blasts deposits off the plates as it does in an ICE car, leading to early battery degradation. I'm wondering if a "leisure battery", designed for such circumstances (low demand, deep cycling) might not be more appropriate. I'd love to hear from anyone out there who could provide professional, knowledgeable comment on that?
eNiro is known for 12v issues. Google around.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I know that, you know that, all those search results know that... but my Kia dealer says they don't know that!
The Nissan Leaf 30 only charges the 12v battery when the ignition is switched on. Mine has just gone flat in the driveway, I'm doing a repair charge as I type. Page EV5 in the manual is unclear, in the final para , which seems to indicate it will charge? Plus I have left my leaf for 5 weeks and suffered only a 2% main battery drain.
The Leaf 30 charges even when not on. Mine did anyway.
There seems to be some debate about this. Some folks report (in forums) that 12v charging happens even when not on, some folks think the 12v only charges when the traction battery is being charged. It may ultimately depend on how you charge and how far you drive each day. I've decided to get a charger (CTEK 7002, but there are cheaper ones) and trickle charge the 12v once a month or so. At the very least this will significantly extend the lifetime of the battery since lead acid batteries like to be kept at 100% charge, unlike lithium batteries.
Sorry, page EV5 in the manual for my 30 kWh LEAF is perfectly clear. Under the heading “While the vehicle is not in use” it states “While the electric vehicle system is off for an extended period of time, the 12 volt battery may be automatically charged for a short period of time on a regular basis.” I can confirm that over the past 2 months while I’ve been furloughed and hardly used the car, with the vehicle not connected to its charge socket, checking weekly with LeafSpy has shown the 12volt battery voltage has been maintained in spite of the drain caused by background activities such as the alarm system and leaving my ODB2 dongle plugged in permanently.
Returning to page EV5, under the heading “While the vehicle is in use” it states “The Li-ion battery charges the 12 volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position or ON position. The 12 volt battery is not charged in the following conditions:
When the power switch is in the ACC position.
When the power switch is in the ON position and the shift lever is in the N (Neutral) position.”
Comparing this with the Not In Use statement above, it becomes clear that While The Vehicle Is In Use means precisely that, i.e. you are actually using the vehicle as distinct from not using it.
It is then clear that the 30 kWh LEAF keeps the 12 volt battery topped up when not in use, without the need to plug it in to a charge point and without the need for a trickle charger or a solar charge panel.
I want to leave it 4 months..What about leaving at 60 percent and charging each day for 1 hour on a timer
Using 3 pin plug I assume?
Depends what car and what manual says about leaving it plugged in.
Hi Andy. I followed your thoughts on EV batteries and, within my knowledge, it all makes sense. However, I'm not sure of the validity of your statement " and that's for any battery . . . . ".
I have a couple of power tools which are on "permanent" charge when not in use and they have never let me down in 10 years. I suspect that their charging docks are internally regulated to control charging (over and under) and if so why can't EV manufacturers do the same?
The same goes for Dyson batteries, they should be kept on the charger at all times when not in use.
I would have thought that the charging control circuits in modern EVs could manage this as well, they should at the price they charge, the manual I have for a new leaf states to plug the vehicle into the home charger once you reach home, I cannot find any mention that it must be between certain values just don't let it get near zero. It does makes sense to ensure that battery is in a certain range if being left for a substantial period but i don't want to have to think about making sure the battery is kept in that range every day.
That’s like saying ‘why don’t modern petrol engine cars have something built in to stop aggressive driving when cold’. There are safety stuff built into EVs of course but there’s a lot that is up to its owner.
Electric Vehicle Man I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t, anyway like you stated the amount of damage that is done in both cases is probably insignificant unless you are planning to keep the vehicle for the rest of your life and make it last as long as possible, with the rate that the EV and battery technology is advancing I doubt many people will be doing that.
The 12v battery on my Leaf went flat yesterday. It was replaced after only 2 years and now again after another 2 years. I’m convinced they are using the wrong type of battery. They use a normal car battery which requires that a very high cranking current is drawn occasionally in order to keep the battery in a good condition. This will happen every time an I.C.E. car is started. This, of course, never happens in an electric car. I believe what they should be using is a leisure battery which are specifically designed to supply low current for extended periods.
Charged it over night and wife has taken it to work. Let’s see if it gets her home. 🤪🤣