Accurately Parting Off Small and Thin Parts !!!
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- Опубликовано: 24 май 2024
- I make a lot of very thin and small shims for scale models. This is how its done with ease. Take a Look !!!
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Joe I do believe you could make a set of roller skates for a hummingbird. You always amaze me and raise the bar.
I've been using a similar parting tool for nearly 50 years on my 9" SBL. It does work! Haven't made any parts that small yet. Thanks for sharing. Ken
School day with Joe. Can't fail to learn here. Thanks Joe. Regards from Wales
After 45+ years in heavy engineering / machining, I feel this area of machining is towards the realm of watchmaking. Thank you for another informative video. 🐯
As a "hobby" machinist that shop gem about grinding a relief angle on the tip of the parting tool has to be the most useful I've gotten from you. I have a little Chineseium lathe and that tip alone improved the usefulness of my machine about 100%.
Every time I watch I learn something new. Thanks Joe.
This is worth the price of admission all day long.
Love the razor blade tip Joe. A friend told me to grind parting tools that way for small parts. But using the width of the holder is new. Many thanks for passing on your knowledge
Outstanding as always Joe, logical practical and spot on buddy, thanks for sharing 👍
When I get a thin parting tool that really cuts well it and an equally nice cutting profiling tool get a safe spot. Two tools that are so handy when small precise parts are needed. I usually have to go back and forth a bit with the mic barrel to get what I want
Why not multitask the parting tool and use it to face, then move the 065 + the thickness of the part
If a part has a step or collar, that's not an option. Otherwise, sure.
that is the first time I have seen a parting tool(a cut off) ground with an angle. On a screw machine we always did that(23 degrees for brass, 17 degrees for aluminum or steel. I have commented aboutthis on other channels, never even an insult for a reply.
The solution to getting that crown to go away is simple once you see it. As for the screw machine thing, the company I did my apprenticeship in had about 100 of them. So having crowns on microscopic parts produced by the thousands would have been a deal breaker. Thats probably when I learned this. Using an angle on a parting tool that extends further out may lead to it walking though.
Thanks Joe. Great tip...I have used the same method many times with dial indicator and DRO.
I would probably run each face of the part on a precision ground stone or lapping plate or fine sand paper glued to a hard flat surface to get any burs.
For small lathe work (1) l used to used solid carbide cut off tools. The tools were originally meant for cutting ring grooves on pistons. When the multi spindle lathes were taken out of service and replaced by CNC turning machines (2) l talked to the cutter grind dept and we got everyone still in stock. Worked like a champ on everything from plastics to hardened bushings. Of course the old timers said they would never work.
1) Hardinge HLV-Hs mostly
2) Automotive pistons adide from the head and pin bore are not round. The skirts are usually eccentric. About .020/.5mm smaller if the skirt actual extended through the centerline of the pin bore. These new CNCs at the time controled the piston profile by means of an amplifier box attached to the tool slide that would control the tool in and out as the piston rotated. The machine builder had a show off program they could load in and when finished a piston would have Giddings & Lewis engraved in the skirt. If the amplifier had an issue it had to be returned to the manufacturer. Opening the box voided the warranty.
Hmmm.. I would have ground and rounded the left side of your parting tool and faced with that (after all its brass) then moved over the measured width of the parting tool. I.e. washer thickness + parting tool width.
I was taught to use the old cig paper method for touching off.
I have never seen this blade method, but everydays a school day.. thanks
Very interesting and useful. I will not be making any orthopedic parts in my garage, but will be using your techniques from today. Thanks and God bless!
Good day to you Joe. I learned most of my machining tricks etc came from a great old German machinist ( Tony) that said if you chose any tool at all HAS TO BE SHARP WITH A FRESH EDGE. There was nothing I could say. No discousion, no excuses.You two could work together from the get-go. I miss him dearly. He taught me to opperate and respect million $ machienes with thousands of $ on their tables. You don't make excuses when in that position eh. New carbide inserts are polised to get what you expect or want from them. He could bring up finishes that no one else could create. Except me on an occasion, LOL.
Have a great weekend my southern friend.
All these years I have worked hard to make sure my parting tool was square , another flat spot on my forehead and an angle grind coming shortly . Thanks for the tip ! 😉 !
nice result joe.
cheers
ben
Interesting info,Joe,Thank you.
Great advice.. as usual !
Thank you, Joe
Could you mic the width of the parting tool and just move the carriage that distance? Always good tips from professor Pie.
If you intend to cutoff multiple parts without facing them in between...yes. Add the thickness of the parting tool and required part thickness, shift the carriage and keep cutting.
more great info! can you make a video showing how you grind your tools?
Thanks Joe, another gem
Thanks have a fabulous memorial day weekend
You too!
Another shop gem , thanks Joe.
Very well described and demonstrated.🙂🙂
That's a keeper... Learned a cool technique.
Joe I enjoy all your videos your work on your model machine tools is outstanding.
But these sort of shop gem / tip type videos you do are probably my absolute favourite they are like a new tool only a mental tool stored in your head not a metal 1 stored in your box.
Thanks 👍🏻
Hi Joe. I and many others, thoroughly enjoy your channel, learning much in the process. Clowns like this, are a pain in the proverbial. Keep up the good works - it's much appreciated!
👍 thanks for sharing. We face and part with an indexable parting and grooving tool. Of course they have relief on both sides.
That is so cool. Just the other day I needed a washer of a specific thickness and it never dawned on me to use my lathe. Thanks, Joe.
As usual, some good tips. Had a similar operation yesterday. Using the ABS/INC button on the DRO saved me the hassle of doing the math. Never thought of it before.
Thanks! Great video Joe. I love these helpful little shop tip videos!
Greetings Guy and thank you very much. Good to get a comment from you. Hope all is well.
Quick, informative and very useful! I will set up a couple of tools exactly like his and start using them. A lot of time has been wasted in my shop trying to remove the sharp little cylinder of material from multiple spacers or washers.
Thanks Joe
Great information! Seen so many machinist ! But your the best !
Thank you very much.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Great video Joe, I've learned many of your methods from your videos and it has helped me to no end, thanks!
Glad to help
very good video joe
I just got a new parting tool. I will be playing with that the rest of the day. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thank you Joe!
Kind regards from John Spargo in Cape Town
Instructional. Classy video.
clean and quick + bonus re-calibration tip
👏👏👏👏👏
A gem indeed.
Did that anvil cleaning paper trick on a Starrett 230 that had been packet away for years, reads like I just bought it yesterday from Starrett.
Hi Joe, great video, much appreciated! I’m going to save this one for sure!
I see you adjusted the barrel where the screw got tighter. Makes sense. What if you needed to “unloosen” instead of tighten it?
I’ve been lucky so far, I’ve not had to adjust my micrometers.
Wondering why you do not work "front face zero & negative Z towards the spindle"?
Great info…tip
Hi Chuck. Thanks for the visit.
Always good tips.Thanks for your time!
Thank you Mr. Pie. I am much older than you I ran the antique machinery when it was new. You and Mr. Pete are my new teachers.
Art from Ohio
Greetings Art. Thanks for checking in.
I have used this method and it is great on brass and other soft(ish) materials. On steel however the angle ground on the end of the parting blade can make the blade track slightly to the side and make the finished part the wrong thickness. On the HO/OO scale model railways that I model the brass parts are absolutely fine when done this way. And yes it is good to just touch BOTH sides of the washer with an emery stick or similar before completing the parting cut. Certainly beats the stamped washers you can buy. Thanks Joe.
Thanks for including the bit at the end about adjusting the micrometer. I have an old one that reads a couple tenths over the standard and I've always been afraid of applying that much force to it. Seeing you crank on it gives me confidence 👍
Glad it helped
Very interesting. Thanks. It’s going to help me allot. Good video
More genius. It’s almost routine now 😜
Thats not a shop gem. Its shop gold!
Do you ever run into rigidity issues with a quick change tool post? I've gone around and around with them and personally found that with what i do, they get too much chatter and deflection. But it's nice to be able to rapid change tools too on complex parts.
I've never had a problem with the ones I use. Aloris brand B and C size. Like a rock.
Great tips as usuall! These tips are perhaps even more useful on small manual turret lathes as well. I use mine frequently when making small series of simple parts, quick setup compared to NC jobs. I use the Joe Pie razorblade frequently, really good idea... Sandvik has small thin parting/grooving triangular inserts that are great for these small scale applications. They are easy to regrind on a D-bit grinder for various widths and front angles. I got a Chinesium one a few years ago and never regretted it, makes experimenting with cutter angles etc a breeze.
Joe if I may give you a tip since you have given me so many. When adjusting an micrometer to zero and the barrel is stuck which happens to them from time to time, carefully remove the thimble then using a heat gun warm the barrel which will free the shellaced or dried up oil, then turn the barrel going about a quarter turn or so each way multiple times after it has freed up. I place a drop of sewing machine oil at each end of the barrel and move it some more to let it soak in, let it cool before replacing the thimble.
I have several brands of micrometers and find that the Tumico's/Lufkins (my favorite mics besides the Starret 231) have a bad tendency to freeze up over time, I have only had one or two Starrets do this.
In the past I have used WD40 on the barrel seam area and over adjusted the barrel in both directions to get a smooth slide for the final position. They are tough to hit on a first try if its been a while.
Silly Question time! and this is just a ponder, but... Looking at the technique I wonder... could you reduce wastage of material if you could pair a laser cutter or a water jet to cut the washers or other parts, just to reduce wastage and increase the profit over the waste. Probably pay better in an industrial setting since tooling cost would be prohibitive.
In a high volume environment, the cutoff tool would be a micro thin parting blade, or punched from a sheet.
Other than EDM, is there any other way to make parts this thin? The width of the parting tool is many times the thickness of the washer being made. One or two doesn’t matter, but if you wanted a couple of dozen the waste is far more than the product
Typically a part like this would be stamped if you needed any volume. If you needed the thickness to be very exact, you would have them ground both sides.
I’ve parted off thousands of small brass and copper parts with a .050 wide blade. Keeping the blade as thin as possible reduces waste to a minimum.
Hello Joe (the puzzle man) from the Pacific Northwest, 50 miles north of the SAN-FRAN-FREAK-O of the north, formerly known as Seattle. Thanks for sharing.
Really liking the miniatures series.
I've heard you use Abs and Inc to get different references at times.
Does your DRO have Sub-Datums? I've not heard you using them.
I find them invaluable. eg. have ABS at XY Center Zero then a SD Zero at a corner and if there is dimensions referenced from a feature like a hole set another SD Zero at that point.
My DROs have 99 SDs, Overkill? but hay the more the merrier!
Have a good one.
I don't have that.
@@joepie221 Hi Joe,
Well we all have to work with the tools we have.
Might pay to look into upgrading, depends on the scales you have but most are compatible with common 5um scales.
The DRO itself is pretty cheap, imagine the luxury of having 2/3/4+ DROs on your mill and lathe.
Anyway I really appreciate your videos, you've given me plenty of tips and tricks over the years.
Thanks.
Ron.
I use this technique to make cylinder and yoke shims (aka bearings) for S&W revolvers, to cure end shake issues. The angled parting tool is a good trick I will add to the procedure. Why the hell didn’t I know that?? Thanks Joe!
Thanks for sharing another neat bag of tricks. The razor blade method works but I use an easier and faster way. Simply move your DRO the width of your parting blade instead of using the razor blade. My blade is .093 wide so moving the carriage .093 puts the right side perfectly flush with the face of the part.
I find it very difficult to move 1/10 on the barrel. The first time usually takes me two or three tries.
Thank You Joe for this Video. Great lesson :-) Could you please show how to grind this parting tool?
If you sneeze these goes, those parts lost forever
Wish I could have had you for a teacher 40 years ago!
Thanks. Thats a nice compliment.
Good timing on this. I’ve been trying to part very small round spacers lately and I can’t get two the same thickness
Using a left handed parting tool like that is great for small stuff, but if you're parting together materials, it will cause your blade to deflect.
That caused me a fair bit of grief making replacement knobs for my stove out of 2.5" 303. I didn't trash any parts, but only because i caught it in time.
Key word here Paul is 'small'. Parting off 303 at 2.5" dia. is going to be a challenge to keep straight even on a good day.
@@joepie221 It certainly was!!!
". . . three tenths . . . that's the error; that's nothing." Except for some of the things I do. Take a 6204 deep groove ball bearing shaft fit, for example (20 mm). The tolerance for that in an electric motor is: 0.7875 to 0.7878. That is what must be hit. Then you get the boss who say's for the high speed (3600 rpm) motors it should be on the looser side, while slow speed motors (1200 rpm) should be on the tighter side.
From where I'm sitting, the difference between .7875 and .7878 is three tenths. Thats exactly the deviation I just demonstrated. Precision washers...no problem.
Joe, on the close ups your spindle nose has many dings in it, have you run a precision ground flat stone over it to remove any burrs. Your chuck will run truer if you do. Finally I still see that you are getting pixilation at times, especially when you were doing the micrometer adjustment. I have mentioned this effect in the past and you were going to try and find the reason the picture breaks up. Regards from Australia.
Dave, The opening and closing segments were done on different programs then the body video. I have noticed segments following those canned segments seem to take a minute to get in pace. the only way to correct this is to download the entire video at an exceptionally HD rate and that takes about 6 times longer.
Joe, it would be great to have a "lessons I've learned in making these videos" video.
✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼
It was actually only .0002 thou over because you mic was reading .0001 thou over to start.
Im sorry if i came off as a jerk
Big deal as a tool setter that 50years ago I made millions or components machining smaller parts of hqn that on automatic lathes
I did my apprenticeship building secondary handling and machining fixtures for parts used inside electronic watches back in the 70's. They were made on B&S automatic screw machines and daily production was checked on a 7 digit digital scale because the parts were so small. Guess we came from similar backgrounds.
Brown and sharp were very reliable machines although my favourite was the German made index series from werk