Generic Build Orders - FAF Tutorial 1 - Supreme Commander Forged Alliance

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024
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Комментарии • 136

  • @Penemue
    @Penemue  6 лет назад +132

    I felt like this topic needed a fresh tutorial. I'm thinking of making a video about "How to tie reclaim into your build orders" next. Does this sound useful?
    Edit: It's done, watch this to optimize the first minutes of your gameplay, they are the most important! - ruclips.net/video/x4qCcnS0TgQ/видео.html

    • @zetasyanthis
      @zetasyanthis 6 лет назад +5

      Heaven Absolutely, yes! And thank you for making these!

    • @quiet_mediocrity
      @quiet_mediocrity 6 лет назад +5

      That's good to use some scenario or even reed but please don't sound like a robot, use your usual voice instead

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  6 лет назад +11

      +Vova Dudyshyn: beep boop request could not be processed beep boop press any key to reboot

    • @npsgaming1287
      @npsgaming1287 6 лет назад +1

      Heaven Top

    • @dingledln
      @dingledln 6 лет назад +1

      yep, does seem useful. I was also expecting the last one to be a modified hydro rush with an extra pgen to keep you from stalling while waiting for your hydro to complete.

  • @Tarontis
    @Tarontis 5 лет назад +47

    A lot of pigeons in this video

  • @Tim06TR
    @Tim06TR 6 лет назад +66

    What I love about your tutorial here (even though I dont need it but take it as a refresher nevertheless),
    is how they are short and concise. No long bla bla bla. I hate that about other youtubers.

  • @jebimasta4604
    @jebimasta4604 Год назад +3

    I think I need to watch these tutorials at quarter speed XD

  • @zetasyanthis
    @zetasyanthis 6 лет назад +106

    "Unless your opponent... is a potato." XD

    • @JesseTribby
      @JesseTribby 5 лет назад +1

      Yeah, I lul'd

    • @EvilNecroid
      @EvilNecroid 5 лет назад +18

      unfortunately im the potato

    • @SangheiliSpecOp
      @SangheiliSpecOp 4 года назад +3

      @@EvilNecroid it b like that sometimes

    • @rixille
      @rixille 4 года назад +2

      @@EvilNecroid Same. I've misused my ACU all along.

    • @fearan9406
      @fearan9406 4 года назад

      the people of Ireland have been very hurt

  • @robinfox4440
    @robinfox4440 5 лет назад +7

    I was into FAF about 4 years ago and I sorely missed having good tutorials out there. Thank you so much for your channel. You are extremely thorough and helpful. Love this and look forward to getting back into the game!

  • @ZazeH
    @ZazeH 4 года назад +3

    Definitly the best tutorial to build orders i've seen in a while. Thx for that!

  • @c4online781
    @c4online781 3 года назад +4

    Very good video lots of great info keep up the wonderful work

  • @hanspeterwunderlich8909
    @hanspeterwunderlich8909 4 года назад +6

    Noice! I bought this game back in 2007 on release date and it is my favourite rts game off all, but i never played it online only lan with my noob friends. latly after i downloaded LOUD Mod im getting deeper and deeper into, and damn i think its one of the most advanced economic systems in rts games and the oportunity to work so efficient with travel markers in combinations with the big maps it makes it one of the only few "real" tactic games.
    Long words short say: i own this game since 2007 and just learned trough the video that u can drop off single units from air transport at different places =D
    THX!!!

  • @geeknproud321
    @geeknproud321 2 года назад +1

    This is good general advice for the game as a whole. Helped me be more efficient in the campaign missions.

  • @dlscorp
    @dlscorp 4 года назад +3

    A lot of people asking in the comments how to make build templates
    (1) select all the built things that you want to template.
    (2) click a tiny button at the bottom centre of the screen lhat looks like 2 squares overlapping (near the PAUSE BUILDING button)
    (3) the template is now saved
    (4) you can find your templates in a new sub-tab that appears at the bottom, right next to the T1 T2 T3 tabs.
    templates can be rotated on placement, which is super fucking cool

    • @smileytfc
      @smileytfc 4 года назад +1

      How do you rotate them?

  • @foodlfg
    @foodlfg 6 лет назад +14

    such knowledge passing from faf players to the other ones. it's like a heritage.
    i wonder who was the first ancient supCom player who came up with these. :D

  • @DERlpschauer
    @DERlpschauer 6 лет назад +10

    actually real damn helpfull ty for that :D never quit with your narrow tutorials pls xD

  • @GenericInternetter
    @GenericInternetter 2 года назад

    Now these are the type of build orders I like!

  • @LapinKiller242
    @LapinKiller242 6 лет назад +3

    Excellent and very helpful tutorial !

  • @lesliegrayson1722
    @lesliegrayson1722 5 лет назад +4

    Also it might have been good to explain the difference between putting the Pgen next to the Mex or next to the factories and the best benefits... or change in benefits at each stage.. and why to reclaim stuff at stages (we can work out when...)

  • @quasimoto9518
    @quasimoto9518 4 года назад +3

    if you put engineers and acu on patrol they will auto reclaim on their patrol. becareful though they could get way sidetracked reclaiming trees far off in the distance.

  • @jacobbrown541
    @jacobbrown541 5 лет назад +2

    How do you get your hotkeys to show on the icons in menu?

  • @ironix4768
    @ironix4768 6 лет назад +9

    "you will die within the frist minutes" basicly happend yesterday...

  • @Self-replicating_whatnot
    @Self-replicating_whatnot 3 года назад

    Thank you. I was getting cross-eyed trying to figure out FAF, right now i can barely defeat the easy AI.

  • @tatsuuuuuu
    @tatsuuuuuu 6 лет назад +6

    this is genius!

  • @MGoogle3146
    @MGoogle3146 5 лет назад +1

    How did you create that build template you made earlier?

  • @fearan9406
    @fearan9406 3 года назад +1

    amazing, any vid on inputs/hotkeys? potatoe here :P

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  3 года назад +1

      ruclips.net/video/UgfkRF8VZ7M/видео.html

  • @niceone1814
    @niceone1814 2 года назад

    How to build like this with the plan I can't seem to continuously build and what button is it?

  • @daniele8278
    @daniele8278 5 лет назад

    Been watching replays for ages, but only recently found this series. Really good information here :) Now if only I could find a team to practice with, lol

  • @ryansta
    @ryansta 4 года назад +3

    Whats with all the Pigeons ? Would feeding them help ? Seriously though, Thanks for guide and tips.

  • @legendcat8913
    @legendcat8913 5 лет назад +1

    how do you make the game display the circle that shows build distance while queuing engineer orders?

  • @Fosten12
    @Fosten12 5 лет назад +1

    Dein englisch ist so gut dass ich es nicht gemerkt habe dass du deutscher bist du "POTADO" gesagt hast :D
    hut ab

  • @jamesleeming7636
    @jamesleeming7636 6 лет назад +2

    If you do 1v1s, 2nd air is better right? I like getting a scout plane out by 2:30 but I know my opponents can get a lead in land production.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  6 лет назад +1

      +james leeming: depends.
      on 5x5 maps it’s usually safer to go for later air because having less land is problematic and a single anti-air will cover a relatively large portion of the map.
      on larger maps, second air is common because land units take forever to arrive and raid.
      as aeon or against aeon, second air is good because aurora are slow and weak against bombers.
      air scouts are nice, but sometimes you know what your opponent is doing even if you don’t get intel from an early air scout. you can move an early land scout into their base or tell by travel speed and context what the radar blips are.

  • @CYON4D
    @CYON4D Год назад

    Very nice tutorial.

  • @Etherlord285
    @Etherlord285 6 лет назад +1

    how do you set only reclaim orders? without move orders? I mean, when I click fast, sometimes instead of reclaim I set move order (yeah, my aim could be much better, but...). ty.

  • @Theparadoxd7
    @Theparadoxd7 2 года назад

    Why do people shift spam click reclaim? Isn't it just easier to just set a patrol? Or is this an effeciency thing.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 года назад +1

      efficiency

  • @eclear4evr
    @eclear4evr 3 года назад

    why do you give it a move command before telling it to reclaim?

  • @nonepppppppp
    @nonepppppppp 6 лет назад +1

    Excellent tutorial thanks !

  • @maxkremmel
    @maxkremmel 2 года назад

    Is there somewhere on the internet a cheat sheet that contains all the information of this video on one page? Would be very nice, ty

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 года назад +1

      Unfortunately, this info does not fit on 1 page. I’ve tried.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 года назад +1

      Unfortunately, this info does not fit on 1 page. I’ve tried.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 года назад +1

      Unfortunately, this info does not fit on 1 page. I’ve tried.

  • @Ch4grin
    @Ch4grin 6 лет назад +4

    I always see you building your pgens sometimes with the adjacency bonus in mind and then sometimes not. And sometimes you build pgens surrounding a not-yet-built factory instead of the factory that is present. Aside from being able to ctrl-K to reclaim the pgens and not take collateral damage... it just doesn't make sense. Why not optimize your build for the adjacency bonus?

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  6 лет назад +10

      T1 Pgen placement is relatively low-interest because their adjacency bonus is very small unless attached to T2/T3 Radars, T2 Air factories, T3 Arty or Antinukes.
      That’s why I place my T1 Pgens in whatever way that feels right at the given time, usually so that units can roll out of factories without obstruction and it’s easy for me to count them. Sometimes I spread them out if I expect a T1 bomber attack, while at other times, reducing travel time while building is more important.
      Don’t overthink it ^_^

  • @angel_machariel
    @angel_machariel 3 года назад

    Something I don't understand as it is not told why. It's about the very basic of 1st land:
    Land Fac takes 1 PGen + 2Mex. Question (first the build order as proposed by the OP):
    ACU:
    - Land Fac
    - 2 PGen
    - 2 Mex
    - 1 Pgen
    - 2 Mex
    - 1 PGen
    Question:
    Why build 2 PGens from the get-go? Does the next Mex cost a T1 PGen as well?

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  3 года назад

      your acu and engineers building stuff cost eco

  • @PrinceSilvermane
    @PrinceSilvermane 6 лет назад

    Most maps seem to have a close hydro to rely on but now I know what to do when I don't have one.

  • @Rushy89
    @Rushy89 4 года назад

    Thank you very much, been playing Vanilla FA for years but only just started on FAF and keep getting my ass handed to me playing people instead of AI. Hopefully I can not be potato.

    • @joetesselaar7634
      @joetesselaar7634 4 года назад

      Man my friend got me into this game ages ago and never taught me this shit... Feel like a big potato now

  • @Freexers
    @Freexers 5 лет назад +1

    I am brand new to the game (legit played first game just then) - what is the rightclick / building u are doing on the trees?

    • @jamyorday
      @jamyorday 5 лет назад

      Jack Gauci he is reclaiming the trees for mass

    • @1222dss
      @1222dss 4 года назад

      @@jamyorday and energy

  • @infinite5oul578
    @infinite5oul578 4 года назад

    I'm going to literally practice that opening sequence until its memory, but i do have one question RTS. The way you placed your factories is between the ME's, doesn't that gimp the Mass from them? You can't place 4 mass storage's like that.

    • @Khanjiro
      @Khanjiro 4 года назад +1

      Mexes give an adjacency bonus to mass consumers which reduces mass usage, similar to pgens and energy. Generally, this discount will outweigh the small boost in mass from a single mass storage.

    • @infinite5oul578
      @infinite5oul578 4 года назад

      @@Khanjiro ahh, ok, thanks Khan!

  • @Jordan-ql8zc
    @Jordan-ql8zc 4 года назад

    Why do you space out the initial pgens but not the long line for additional factories?

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  4 года назад

      I’m too lazy to rewatch my own video and see what you mean, but generally: losing multiple pgens early hurts, late in the game you can protect them better and have more in total, so it’s not as bad.
      Early factories are usually close to core mexes (can leave room for mass storage or factory connectors there), later factories are often more secluded and there’s less risk of blocking mass storage spaces with pgens etc

  • @s44vhl7l
    @s44vhl7l 6 лет назад +2

    Please Heaven pretty please, what's the mod name that allows you to see mexes from far as numbers of their level and nuke building percentage on your sml?

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  6 лет назад +3

      Eco manager

    • @flyingsonic2632
      @flyingsonic2632 5 лет назад

      @@Penemue where did you get the mod i cant find it anywhere

  • @zylvar2251
    @zylvar2251 4 года назад

    can I have a question how you enable the build mode? after I unsellect the commander I have to press B key again to activate it

  • @Humognoid
    @Humognoid 6 лет назад +5

    How did you do a build radius around the cursor visible?

    • @BCase56
      @BCase56 6 лет назад +4

      UI mod
      ruclips.net/video/Q05UzURgqOk/видео.html

  • @rmg222
    @rmg222 2 года назад

    nice man! thxxxXXx

  • @Barbarossa97
    @Barbarossa97 6 лет назад

    Informatives Video.

  • @Battl3Cry
    @Battl3Cry 3 года назад

    Bro is it okay if I put some translation on this and give it a shout out to my japanese fans? With your consent ofcourse.

  • @Arkham_UK
    @Arkham_UK 3 года назад

    Very helpful 👍

  • @Hunter248GM
    @Hunter248GM 4 года назад +1

    The problem I'm having is I usually play against AI (Adaptive Sorian). And those games take me some time, sure I could rush them but I find no fun in that. If PvP is all about the rushing as you kinda show here. I will pass and just keep playing against AI. Even though AI is starting to become way too easy at this point.
    If you have any tips on how to make the AI more effective and difficult without them starting to cheat too much I'd love some tips. :)

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  4 года назад +1

      If there is an equilibrium of power between skilled players in pvp, games can get very long and still be high-quality.
      There’s just little reason to play 1 hour against someone you could kill in 5 minutes. So games begin with a rush and only the good ones last longer.
      I don’t really give advice about AI other than not to play against it, or at least keeping those games to a minimum.
      You learn the game by playing against humans, and after you’ve played a couple of ranked games and analyzed the replays, you realize that there is little point and challenge in playing against AI, regardless of which one you pick.
      Some people use very high cheat multipliers for AIX, but even those games get stale quickly because what you do stops affecting the outcome rather quickly.

  • @ZLO_FAF
    @ZLO_FAF 6 лет назад +3

    0:43 1rst thing that i thought about was to groundfire all t1 pgens with sera bomber

  • @abcd-yg2rx
    @abcd-yg2rx 5 лет назад

    What about one land factory and upgrade it to tech 2 as soon as possible? Is better a tech 2 land factory than 2 tech 1 land factories

    • @zeldamage001
      @zeldamage001 3 года назад

      It's expensive and therefore prevents you to build T1 units. If your opponent is making T1, he can deal a lot of damage (e.g., kill your engies and mexes). If you're not at risk you can do this. Also, I've heard about this for Seraphim (chickens!).

  • @abcd-yg2rx
    @abcd-yg2rx 4 года назад

    Does assisting a mass extractor with engineers make it produce more mass?

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  4 года назад +1

      wtf no :D

    • @executor31
      @executor31 4 года назад

      You can only assist a build or upgrade of a building. Not extracting resources.

  • @Ben_R4mZ
    @Ben_R4mZ 6 лет назад

    The 1 pgen per land is outdated right? it's now 2 per land?
    That's what I was taught by the person who helped me out in getting started and who linked me to these tutorials.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  6 лет назад +1

      It’s still 1 pgen for each extra t1 land factory, it hasn’t changed

  • @xxsamperrinxx3993
    @xxsamperrinxx3993 3 года назад

    How did you do 1:53 so fast

    • @redmen2822
      @redmen2822 3 года назад +1

      He bound a key to reclaim, which is much easier to spam than carefully right-clicking

  • @EntropyWins
    @EntropyWins 6 лет назад

    Do you have some keyboard macro or something that enters the units to build in the land factories or are you just suuuuper fact with the keyboard?

  • @jhulbe
    @jhulbe 3 года назад

    hol' up. What does reclaiming trees do?

    • @redmen2822
      @redmen2822 3 года назад

      Gives a lil mass and good amount of power

  • @buzzkill1129
    @buzzkill1129 6 лет назад +1

    Heaven my fav aeon player, when will more of the co-op campaign with gyle brink come out?

  • @JgrPower
    @JgrPower 4 года назад

    How do you toggle the range around your cursor?

    • @armacham
      @armacham 4 года назад

      It is with a mod is called "Additional Camera Stuff." It shows the build range ring around your cursor, corresponding to the selected unit, but only when you are holding the "shift" key. You can get that mod from the FAF mod vault of course.

  • @TheBoeBoeBa
    @TheBoeBoeBa 4 года назад +1

    Why does he manually select what the engineers reclaim? You can just let engineers auto reclaim

    • @echomjp
      @echomjp 4 года назад

      I would assume due to travel time for the engineers being more efficient in this case. If you have them move to a location and harvest everything in their range, they should spend less time moving than if you have to move individually in range with the automatic path finding.

  • @williamyoung6494
    @williamyoung6494 4 года назад +1

    I'm sorry, where do pigeons come into this?

  • @xabab
    @xabab 4 года назад

    Are those still actual?

    • @armacham
      @armacham 4 года назад

      Yes, the build orders are still valid. Balance changes over the years generally haven't messed with the cost of t1 mexes/pgens/factories.

  • @lesliegrayson1722
    @lesliegrayson1722 5 лет назад +1

    Nope you missed it.. a quick build, I can get from GYLE youtube, a template user friendly explanation.. not so much.

  • @TheSweetSpirit
    @TheSweetSpirit 6 лет назад

    Updated tutorials :0

  • @Shkreka84
    @Shkreka84 6 лет назад

    круто .то что надо!
    спс

  • @ruachhakodesh2791
    @ruachhakodesh2791 6 лет назад

    just got this game i played sc2 and aoe and cac growing up but this game is so complicated fuck

  • @kanesozae
    @kanesozae 5 лет назад +3

    Ive got to stop being a potato...

  • @stryderyates6781
    @stryderyates6781 2 года назад

    "Unless your opponent is a potato."

  • @B20C0
    @B20C0 5 лет назад +1

    I can't even click that fast. Getting old sucks.

    • @zeldamage001
      @zeldamage001 3 года назад

      Luckily, SupCom does not require a lot of actions per minute, like StarCraft 2

  • @Jardonius
    @Jardonius Год назад

    I know fighting the AI is kind of a big no-no but I only play this with my friends (and hopefully against them, soon) so I'm not worried about taking it *too* seriously...
    However, this shit has allowed me to fulfill my architectural dreams of building massive defense outposts the enemy cannot thwart (Adaptive AI) and that shit gets me rock solid. Still ass at remembering all of this, but god damn is it fun

  • @torei9261
    @torei9261 2 месяца назад

    This playstyle may work in "pro" but feels overall pretty boring and not intuitive. It's basically spam units and then spam more units. Unless the map is plastered in mass extractors I'm good building a base you cannot conquer. Every match my opponent thinks he can rush me just to get wiped by my t2 defense.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 месяца назад

      it doesn't seem like you want to learn how to play but rather watched this video to get reaffirmed in your beliefs. just keep doing what you're doing if that's what you enjoy
      if you hit your skill ceiling with that approach and you're ready to change your mind, i recommend typing "machine complex" into my channel search and watching these videos

    • @torei9261
      @torei9261 2 месяца назад

      @@Penemue there is nothing to learn if it's not your playstyle.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 месяца назад

      ​@@torei9261 any noob who sends 1 scout plane over your base, takes 70%+ of the mass points, upgrades his eco and builds MML / arty will kill you. it isn't a playstyle if it isn't working. you can play defensively, but you still have to adapt to your opponent and build units. if you don't want to understand that, either stick to single player or get ready to suffer for a few hundred hours in multiplayer until your experience outgrows your stubbornness or you quit the game

    • @torei9261
      @torei9261 2 месяца назад

      @@Penemue the pure arrogance in your tone haha. I don't play the game you play it and are getting offended because I don't want it to play it the way you want me to play it. Get lost dude. I've won countless battles. I've never said I turtle only my base. But ladder is boring af.

    • @Penemue
      @Penemue  2 месяца назад

      Playing RTS without spamming units is impossible because that's how RTS games are designed. As long as the attacker scouts and adapts to what he sees, the defender can never win without units. If the opposite was true, a match could never end. A tower-heavy style is predatory on the stupidity of your opponent who must waste units against your towers for you to win. Any opponent who builds units that counter towers or scales up their economy with the mass that you sink into towers will kill you. What they call PD creep in FAF only works if you spam units to support your towers, and you build the towers towards enemy eco.
      I'm not writing this to convince you since that's impossible. You're the type that only learns from your own mistakes after realizing them yourself. I'm writing this so that the other people who read this don't copy you. My videos are meant to teach new players, and eliminating misunderstandings in new players is part of that. I don't care about how arrogant I sound to you, the skill progression of my students is more important than your image of me.

  • @madexan
    @madexan 5 лет назад

    Hello my name is "******". I have some hotkeys that i press certain things happens, then hold shift and klick spam certain thigns. this is 1min to around to 2min

  • @zharvis7541
    @zharvis7541 6 лет назад

    How the shit do you queue your units so quickly. Wtf

  • @TekGriffon
    @TekGriffon 6 лет назад

    This felt like a video on how to give manual reclaim orders with build order audio tacked on top of it. Unfortunately, the audio was drowned out by the sound of a billion manual reclaim clicks.

  • @martymcfly5423
    @martymcfly5423 5 лет назад +1

    How is the ACU worth 20 tanks??? it does 100 DPS, the same damage of 4 T1 tanks. So the ACU has only the firepower of 4 T1 tanks and not 20!

    • @semyonkuznetsov1584
      @semyonkuznetsov1584 5 лет назад +1

      Well not only he has that firepower, he has quite a lot of hp too, so all combined it makes ACU worth 20 tanks

    • @B20C0
      @B20C0 5 лет назад +1

      @@semyonkuznetsov1584 If you put your ACU up vs 20 tanks it will usually win if you do some nice overcharges. It has a higher range than most tanks and can tank a lot.

    • @abcd-yg2rx
      @abcd-yg2rx 4 года назад

      Then it can be upgraded. An upgraded cybran commander with laser gun can wipe out easily swarms of hundreds of T1 units . It has just to shy away from t3 Units Like Percivals. With upgrades they can be considered experimental units

    • @zeldamage001
      @zeldamage001 3 года назад

      Your ACU w/o OC will lose against 20 T1 tanks. However, your ACU also has more range and can therefore provide your tanks with a lot of sustained firepower!

  • @certaindeath7776
    @certaindeath7776 4 года назад

    useful tutorial, improvment suggestion: i can hear every click and key, which distracts from listening.
    i guess you are working with a desk mikro, because noise volume is close to volume of your voice.
    That makes it hard to improve. Possible Solutions:
    - Try cut every sound below a certain treshhold volume. Only works if voice is constantly louder then noise.
    - Try post commenting. Use Only Video from Demo Session, delete audio track, and record new voice track via video editor into to project
    - Cheap clip-on Micro to clip onto your headspeakers cable. Works much better then desk mikro, less noise. cost factor 4-10€. Audio Quality: like gaming headset, almost all of then use theese cheap mikros. Congrats, you built yourself a "gaming headset" for a third of the price^^.
    - More Expensive Condenser Mircofone on Scissor Arm and Shock Mount, preferable XLR with Audio Interface. Cost Factor 100€+++

  • @Bradley_UA
    @Bradley_UA 2 года назад

    are you reading this from a paper?

  • @XxBlackIce671xX
    @XxBlackIce671xX 4 года назад

    im glad to say i didnt waste 17 mins of my life

  • @lesliegrayson1722
    @lesliegrayson1722 5 лет назад

    This isn't what I wanted.. I have been playing this game for ages and still like to micro hard. but..
    I wanted to see if there was a bunch of saved patterns/templates and how to make them... or my own..
    lol you used a saved group of Pgens template that you just set down on the second island and no explanation of how the templates were made LOL.. anyway I haven't finished watching..

    • @dlscorp
      @dlscorp 4 года назад

      (1) select all the built things that you want to template.
      (2) click a tiny button at the bottom centre of the screen lhat looks like 2 squares overlapping
      (3) the template is now saved
      (4) you can find your templates in a new sub-tab that appears at the bottom, right next to the T1 T2 T3 tabs.
      (5) interestingly, the template remembers the order that the buildings were constructed.
      (6) templates can be rotated on placement, which is super fucking cool

  • @jaysol191
    @jaysol191 3 года назад

    ,