STOP Building Walls with 2x6 Studs - Use this technique instead!

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  • Опубликовано: 30 окт 2024

Комментарии • 1,3 тыс.

  • @homesbysorensen
    @homesbysorensen  10 месяцев назад +78

    Hi everyone! We're so thrilled that people have gotten to see this video and appreciate all of the thoughtful comments here! We were not expecting this video to get this kind of traction, but we're thrilled you're here! Check out the other videos on our Net Zero playlist here to see the foundation and basement building details as well.
    To address a couple of comments overall:
    We are a net zero builder, and we wanted to share our techniques that we use on a day-to-day basis to improve our homes energy efficiency, in Calgary, Alberta. We're always balancing using cost effective building techniques that improve energy efficiency, without impacting the overall constructionability.
    We like this system for exterior walls because framing out a wall with 2x4 studs, is something every framer knows how to do, and doesn't need specialty training to execute. The materials are also all readily available.
    Cost wise versus energy savings - the energy savings far outweigh the added costs of construction. Simply by exchanging one 2x6 wall for two 2x4 walls, we have only increased our lumber package by a small amount, and increased our framing labor marginally. We are now left with a wall system that is completely thermally broken, with substantially more insulation, that has very high constructionability.
    And, at the end of the day, we're making small changes to build a more energy efficient home. This one in particular is net zero.
    We'll also make a video going through the costs of this home in greater detail. Stay tuned for that!
    Our next video is coming out this Sunday! We'll be going through the Blower Door Test for this net zero home, and showing some of the extra steps we do to prepare there. Check that out to see how air tight we were able to get this net zero home!

    • @trentgay3437
      @trentgay3437 10 месяцев назад +8

      How is the second story's load being transferred to the foundation? Do you need something different from normal traditional exterior foundation walls?

    • @Scott-sm9nm
      @Scott-sm9nm 10 месяцев назад +4

      That double wall works excellent on selective interior walls as well for excellent "sound insulation". Home theater as an example.

    • @gomelteam
      @gomelteam 10 месяцев назад +3

      Build incorrectly. Should be 24 on center staggered that way it illuminates all cold spots and works out to be 12 on center.

    • @Scott-sm9nm
      @Scott-sm9nm 10 месяцев назад +6

      @@gomelteam there was 3" of space between the walls so your comments make no sense. Sometimes a 2x6 is used for the top/bottom plate then staggered 2x4 walls on each "side" of that. These are separate walls tho!

    • @946towguy2
      @946towguy2 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@Scott-sm9nm Staggered stud on a common plate make more sense. I've also seen I-joists or truss studs used at certain intervals (such as every 4') to add strength

  • @ralphriffle1126
    @ralphriffle1126 6 месяцев назад +51

    Over the last fifty five years I have been in construction I have seen many new ideas being done. Each idea comes then goes, then comes again. Glad to see the merry go round of ideas still turning

    • @saltbeltupstateny4857
      @saltbeltupstateny4857 Месяц назад +1

      Built my first house in 1969, like you I’ve seen all kinds of construction methods.. I’ve built a few with deep wall, one 12”, the customer was always happy with the fuel saving….

    • @crzy11000
      @crzy11000 Месяц назад +1

      So in your opinion why did this system go by the way side? I think it has a lot of merit and is simple to implement.

    • @ralphriffle1126
      @ralphriffle1126 Месяц назад +1

      The wall framing design is good. A lot of insulation can be packed in there. Having a sound brake is good. Also makes a good pipe and duct chase.

    • @MyFortressConstruction
      @MyFortressConstruction 12 дней назад

      @@crzy11000 It didn't, it's just not as cheap as traditional. Some people want to spend an extra 10k on framing/insulation. Others on a wine cooler and 98" TV. As a builder I try to steer people towards better building science and quality, but the pocketbook is what determines which extra goodies people get.

  • @thohangst
    @thohangst 6 месяцев назад +11

    I saw this demonstrated as a system at a NAHB convention about 28ish years ago. It seems so obvious and brilliant for cold climates.
    My sensei Russ was obsessed with energy efficiency. His house is a pair of earth sheltered domes, connected. Kind of genius.

  • @greggyp647
    @greggyp647 Месяц назад +71

    In 1980, I built a similar home ... 10" walls with 2x4 studs. Fast forward to a few years ago, I was gone for the winter (Northern Wisconsin, USA). I called the LP company to fill my gas pig, they never did. That year, we hit several weeks in a row of -30F. When I found out the tank had not been filled, I thought My plumbing was all ruined. It never froze in the house and I attribute that to the super insulation of the 10 inch exterior walls.

    • @curtisthomas-eg4th
      @curtisthomas-eg4th Месяц назад +6

      Insulation slows heat loss. No amount can eliminate it.

    • @ProleDaddy
      @ProleDaddy Месяц назад +8

      ​@@curtisthomas-eg4th That's my initial thought, though the heat from the day will warm the house for over the colder nights.

    • @justhecuke
      @justhecuke Месяц назад +1

      ​@@ProleDaddy insulation also stops the heat from getting into the home, so this doesn't make much sense.
      What you're referring to is heat capacity, which is a separate topic from insulation.

    • @benm12310
      @benm12310 Месяц назад +5

      @@justhecukewindows allow the sun to heat up the inside of the house

    • @justhecuke
      @justhecuke Месяц назад

      @@benm12310 windows are also low-R holes in your real insulation. Windows may let in heat during the day, but they also let it out at night. And in a winter with such low temps, the sunlight might not warm things up much anyways.
      Again, the particular point about the heat a house collects during the day is a heat capacity point and not one of insulation.
      The specifics of why the OP's plumbing didn't freeze (or merely didn't break), depends a lot on the design. And proper winterization of a home involves draining your water pipes. We don't know what this guy did to maintain his home, but if he built his own home he probably knows enough to drain his pipes before leaving for winter.

  • @ralphpeischl2622
    @ralphpeischl2622 9 месяцев назад +44

    I’m a home energy freak for years. The home I built for myself I used 2X6s with R19 batting . I often thought of doing exactly what you did on my outside walls so any plumbing and electrical would be in an interior wall by itself. Fantastic idea you have.

    • @richdobbs6595
      @richdobbs6595 Месяц назад

      The plumbing and electrical can snake between the walls (assuming that the plumbing is PEX and anything like drain pipes are interior walls. Scandinavian technique is to make the second wall horizontal, some thermal bridging, but you could probably stick an inch of rigid foam at the cross over point. Vapor barrier is place on top of the outer wall, so no breaks except for windows and doors.

  • @Gypsy2057
    @Gypsy2057 10 месяцев назад +73

    I was working with an old-timer in the early 1980's when he showed me that method. Back then nobody cared that much about energy efficiency but that was how they built walk in freezers. It makes for pretty deep window cells but does make for really high R-factors. Thanks for posting this very informative video.

    • @renof2505
      @renof2505 10 месяцев назад +5

      Didn't think of the windows but was sure the thick wall was going to have an effect somewhere. That could be dealt with by stepping down to 2x6 near the windows to have sort of a shadow box effect.

    • @hiris1903
      @hiris1903 10 месяцев назад +15

      Deep window wells are great if you're a plant lover :)

    • @C0braChicken2
      @C0braChicken2 10 месяцев назад +8

      @@hiris1903 I'm sure the cats love them as well.

    • @--_DJ_--
      @--_DJ_-- 9 месяцев назад +10

      @@C0braChicken2 We moved from a place with nice big window sills to an older place with none. The cat still tries to get into the windows, when they are open he makes it work, when they are closed he just bounces off. He tries either way.

    • @hektor6766
      @hektor6766 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@hiris1903 All kinds of neat traditional treatments: coffered casings, bi-fold shutters, side bookcases, seats, french doors,..

  • @michaeljuers574
    @michaeljuers574 10 месяцев назад +251

    We remodeled a home that was built exacting like this. It was about 10 years old. When we opened up an exterior wall the cellulose had settled between 10 to 12 inches at the top of the wall. I hope your stuff works better than theirs.

    • @morninboy
      @morninboy 10 месяцев назад +40

      In the video I saw the way the mesh was installed incorrectly. It should be pulled taught and stapled to both sides of the stud with staples every two inches. The cellulose then gets DENSE PACKED so it does not settle. A completed wall should be bulging with the packed insulation.

    • @13squared2009
      @13squared2009 10 месяцев назад +44

      We remodeled an early 90’s home with this dense packed cellulose. It was absolutely packed top to bottom 30+ years later. Home was warm and quiet as be - the original home had the same dense packed cellulose used as a sound barrier in rooms that should be quiet. I.e. between the master bedroom and living room. Loved that home!

    • @trentgay3437
      @trentgay3437 10 месяцев назад +14

      The house my grandfather built had blow in insulation and I could get it up to 90° with the fireplace 2400sf ranch style.

    • @geoh7777
      @geoh7777 10 месяцев назад +15

      @@13squared2009 Sounds really great.
      However, if in a hurricane or tornado region, I'd rather consider one of the concrete wall systems now available for home construction as long as it is virtually wind pressure proof.

    • @abacab87
      @abacab87 10 месяцев назад +9

      It does come down to how it was blown in place. I've opened walls after a couple years when it was put in place wet, and it didn't settle. It may not settle if dense packed dry. If it was loose I'm surprised it only dropped 12 inches, but maybe it was partially packed dense. It still wouldn't hurt to have a way to top it off after a few years, or to be able to check it. If you have vinyl siding it would be easy to check it from the outside.

  • @hobbyguy79
    @hobbyguy79 10 месяцев назад +25

    Just looked at my local HD here in Calgary 🇨🇦
    8' 2x4 - $3.98 × 2 = $7.96
    8' 2x6 - $6.98
    8' 2x8 - $13.22
    8' 2x10 - $16.66
    So, for a build where you are looking to maximize your exterior wall thickness and insulation, the double 2x4 exterior wall is a much less expensive option, even with the additional labor, AND it gives you a complete thermal break from inside to out.
    And again, just talking about the exterior walls here and not every wall in the building.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад +16

      But you can also do exterior insulation that doesn't take up interior space. Two inches adds R-10 and it's a complete thermal break. Put the thickness on the outside where it isn't taking up space over your foundation and zoning codes limit the size of your foundation.

    • @fredwoods-o3g
      @fredwoods-o3g 6 месяцев назад +5

      It's a little weirder than that. 2x4 studs are 16" OC, 2x6 studs are 24" OC. Looks like 16" OC was required. Can't tell if the inner wall can be classified as structural (supported by sill plate tied to footer). In some locations, if the inner wall is attached to a slab, it has to be able to "float" to allow for heaving/settling, or can't be attached to ceiling structure. Cool idea, but video is missing some engineering details.

    • @williammoore6953
      @williammoore6953 5 месяцев назад +3

      @@fredwoods-o3g Based on the joist for the second floor resting on the interior top plate, it would appear the inner framing is load bearing. Not for the roof as that is supported by the outer "wall". It is an interesting concept for colder zones. I am in Va., so not really an issue in this milder zone. Please take my comment with a grain of salt as I have never built in the aformentioned cold zones.

    • @fredwoods-o3g
      @fredwoods-o3g 5 месяцев назад

      @@williammoore6953 I looked at one of the earlier videos, and it looks like the concrete foundation walls are shy of 10 inches wide. That may cause some interesting issues after about 10 years. With an upstairs, even 2x6 framing needs to be 16 OC, so the math I looked at for volume of wood v insulation isn't useful. If you could use 2x10 24 OC framing, you would end up with more insulation than 2 walls of 2x4 16 OC framing.

    • @williammoore6953
      @williammoore6953 5 месяцев назад +2

      @@fredwoods-o3g If that inner wall base plate is not over the foundation, that could get very interesting, as you say. We put a gun safe on a second floor once and TOLD the owner it was a very bad idea, less than 6 months later, we moved the safe to the concrete slab of the carport. He had to replace one load bearing wall, the upstairs floor joists for that room and the dry wall work.

  • @davidribeca1745
    @davidribeca1745 10 месяцев назад +108

    Your missed the labor cost to build the second wall in your 60% figures. You also didn’t mention extention jambs cost on windows and doors and that extra labor factored into the 60% cost.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад +10

      Compare to what? 2x6 plus 4+" exterior insulation? Rigid insulation is expensive. The long screws to install it are expensive. 3/4 sheathing just in case you miss the stud is expensive. Sealing window bucks is also expensive. Believe me anything comparable to the r value of double stud wall is going far more expensive and complicated.

    • @davidribeca1745
      @davidribeca1745 10 месяцев назад +8

      @MurDocInc Had we had all that information and not just the cost of the" 2x6s" in your explanation in the video I probably would have agreed with you .

    • @dimefield36
      @dimefield36 8 месяцев назад +8

      As a piece work batt insulator I love the idea of 3 R12 layers $$$

    • @willbender4295
      @willbender4295 8 месяцев назад +14

      I was thinking the same thing. Labor cost and extension jambs weren't mentioned. I've seen this method and the reason it was used was because of noise suppression. When the studs aren't touching or one solid piece, sound vibration is greatly reduced especially with insulation. He never mentioned this

    • @jimwong8056
      @jimwong8056 5 месяцев назад +16

      Thicker walls mean smaller house.

  • @michaeldecker2725
    @michaeldecker2725 10 месяцев назад +96

    While the insulating aspect is fascinating Having an open cavity from 1st to 2nd floor reminds me of balloon framing that was popular at one time. The problem is it was a chimney for fires. By not running your floor joists to the outer walls there is no containment between floors. I would imagine fire code would dictate fire stops installed in the chase areas to prevent this from happening regardless of fire retardant insulation.

    • @jayinmass
      @jayinmass 10 месяцев назад +12

      Exactly, was wondering if it was still allowed for US building codes.

    • @EchoMeToo
      @EchoMeToo 10 месяцев назад +5

      The insulation should prevent fire from spreading, right?

    • @TedTedness-wu4vb
      @TedTedness-wu4vb 10 месяцев назад +6

      @@EchoMeToo Roxsul maybe, pink ahhh yuck.

    • @MrMunchman69
      @MrMunchman69 10 месяцев назад +10

      This is what my first thoughts were. I worked on a house like this.
      There were 2 problems we were addressing. 1 squirrels being able to go anywhere in the house inside the walls, floors and ceiling. The 2nd was an unexpected situation, the ladder went through the outer wall (west side of house), all the moisture built up, soaked up and rotted the plywood from the inside. Prevailing winds pushing the moisture to that side of the building being cause and effect.

    • @kondasixtytoo487
      @kondasixtytoo487 10 месяцев назад +7

      You would be looking for a fire block not fire stop(both defined terms in the code). Insulation is a listed fire block, so as long as the cavity is completely filled it would be code compliant. The concern would be if the insulation settled or slipped in the 3” gap, which is unlikely with batts. Not sure how the cellulose settles though

  • @donbell8187
    @donbell8187 9 месяцев назад +12

    This is a common technique for building sound proof walls in recording studios. Very effective!

    • @Inwallstore
      @Inwallstore Месяц назад +1

      We suggest this in high end home theaters too. Much more effective and less expensive than "trying" more insulation without the air break.

  • @GeorgeKaye-l2e
    @GeorgeKaye-l2e 8 месяцев назад +7

    I built recording studio walls this way for sound proofing. We hung a double layer of sheetrock on one side to shift the resonant frequencies of the walls away from each other. Worked great!

  • @johnwade9963
    @johnwade9963 9 месяцев назад +12

    You should look at "T" stud. They're made in Canada. They come as 2x8 and 2x6. It is double studed like yours but has criss crossed dowels conecting them. They com either wood only or prefilled with insulation. R value of 25+. It would do the same with less labor...

  • @edgratz3425
    @edgratz3425 10 месяцев назад +65

    I built a lake home in northern Wisconsin with double 2x4 studs but staggered them and used a standard 2x6 header for firebreak. We used blown in damp cellulose for insulation. That place is incredilby quiet and I believe we have a full R-22 wall instead of ending up with R-17 when using 2x6 and R-22 fiberglass. The damp cellulose packs a lot better than dry cellulose blown in, but you have to wait a few days for the moisture level to drop before covering. The damp stuff stays in place without the added net necessary for dry cellulose.

    • @schlz69
      @schlz69 10 месяцев назад +5

      yep, gota have that fire break.

    • @melvinrexwinkle1510
      @melvinrexwinkle1510 10 месяцев назад

      Make that cellulose really dry, so it will stop a fire from coming the outside world?

    • @CoopAssembly
      @CoopAssembly 10 месяцев назад +5

      I've seen motel walls made with 2x6 headers/footers and staggered studs (to either side). That will be helpful for sound isolation, going down into the bass. (That's why they did it). I've also seen a front wall of an old house with 2 feet of space in it, and it traps highway sounds really effectively.

    • @schlz69
      @schlz69 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@CoopAssemblycommercial is different, engineering’s stamp prints, and take the liability of things are outside of adopted code. They are still required to meet fire barrier requirements

    • @ya472
      @ya472 9 месяцев назад +2

      Are there any studies on cellulose settling over 10 years, or more?

  • @michaelmccotter4293
    @michaelmccotter4293 10 месяцев назад +13

    I dealt with the thermal bridging issue in a similar fasion.
    I used 8" timbers for the main timber framing utilizing post and beam construction .
    The inner and outer studs are installed parallel to the face and back of the main timbers. I installed the exterior 2x4" studs horizontal, and
    I installed 1x4" interior studs vertical. I Planked exterior using 1x12 pine for siding installed horizontal, boards with batons.
    Insulated with 5.5" inches of opposing layers of EPS foam board. R-5 per inch gives an R-28 wall.
    Opposing layers of foam board makes a quiet and well sealed wall.
    Cellulose has at best a 2.2 to 3.8 R value.
    But generally settles as much as 12"s over time. Settling reduces it's R value.
    As it settles it becomes more dense and R value suffers. The top of the wall cavity may have 6" to 12" of no insulation within a couple years.
    Though my 5.5" insulation is not R 40, I think a solid R-28 is pretty respectable.
    With the foam board between the studs the walls are dense and solid. I'm certain people are cringing, yet my comfort and cost to heat this home,
    in South Central Alaska confirms my design. Everyone who visited the site, or visits, remarks at how stout the post and beam construction seems to appear. Rolled right through our 7.2 earthquake like a Cadillac over a highway of down pillows. With triple pane windows we live quiet and cozy and cheap.

  • @jeffhack6839
    @jeffhack6839 9 месяцев назад +4

    I designed my own version of this.
    2x8 wall. Nice window sills.
    2 inch gap and spray foam which gives my exterior walls a total of R35.
    Very cost effective.
    Cheers.

  • @jerryf609
    @jerryf609 10 месяцев назад +65

    It is not just the cost of the lumber. You have framing costs as well. And increased foundation basement floor roofing taxes for larger footprint etc. So please calculate entire costs and return on investment. Also be aware that there is no totally effective moisture and air barrier. You will get condensation wthin the wall structure.

    • @mrcryptozoic817
      @mrcryptozoic817 10 месяцев назад +4

      Right! The finished interior dimension will be noticeably smaller so you will have to pour a non-standard footprint. And I think you will have to use at least an inch of closed cell foam (more expensive).
      Wouldn't framing with SIPs be better?

    • @kenchow8213
      @kenchow8213 10 месяцев назад +2

      "there is no totally effective moisture and air barrier", this is why you must use a vapour open WRB (e.g., Solitex Mento 1000) and smart vapour control layer (e.g., INTELLO Plus) on the interior wall.

    • @paulmaxwell8851
      @paulmaxwell8851 9 месяцев назад +5

      Nope. You're repeating an urban myth, which says that warm buildings have moisture problems. Read Fine Homebuilding and the Green Building Advisor for explanations as to why this is only a myth.

    • @garretcook8169
      @garretcook8169 9 месяцев назад

      @@paulmaxwell8851 It's absolutely avoidable, but it's not an "Urban myth". You can easily get moisture problems in "tight" homes from spray foam and vapor barriers not done correctly. A quick search on RUclips and you'll find plenty of homeowners complaining of dripping walls. Don't call it a "Myth", call it something that is easily avoidable if done correctly.

    • @tommak6516
      @tommak6516 9 месяцев назад +8

      It looks like it might be a condensation trap to me also. Especially with the particle board exterior sheeting. The commenter that talks about 'Urban Myths' needs to study dew points instead of some low level fluff ra ra bs.

  • @williamdrake2315
    @williamdrake2315 10 месяцев назад +8

    Great idea. Great return for your investment. I lived in a condo and they did this with the common wall between units. They were concerned with noise transmission. Never heard the neighbors or their kids running around.

  • @AlAndValOffGrid
    @AlAndValOffGrid 10 месяцев назад +9

    Built ours with 2x6 24" OC BUT, we covered the exterior with 1" foil-faced Polyiso sheets and foil taped seams in a total package wrap of the walls and roof with no gaps. So we had a thermal barrier around the exterior so the studs would not allow pass-through of heat/cold. We covered the Polyiso with Zip siding and roofing, taped and sealed for a moisture/vapor barrier. We then had the interior spray foam insulated with 4.5 inches of foam. We only heat with a small wood stove and even at 40 below, the house is usually too warm if we keep the stove going. The siding is simple board/batten and the roof is metal on furring strips so we have an air gap between zip roofing and the metal.

    • @deerhunter7482
      @deerhunter7482 10 месяцев назад +2

      Excellent choice with a downspray on the sheet rock !

    • @kerrryschultz2904
      @kerrryschultz2904 8 месяцев назад +2

      So your wall cavity and exterior is about an R30. And your frame with the polyiso is about R13. I use R 1 per inch of wood and polyiso is after gasing about R 7 per inch. Well done.

    • @abacab87
      @abacab87 5 месяцев назад +2

      I did that with a 2x4 wall, and so I got my 20 R value. Very efficient and no need to order larger sills or door frames.

  • @Riley_1955
    @Riley_1955 10 месяцев назад +14

    Coming from an old retired carpenter I totally agree that your wall is way better than a 2x6 outside wall ..... I my self would even make the gap at least 5 or 6 inches ..... Nice video.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад +5

      You would be losing usable square footage, there's an increased fire risk from not having fire breaks, if you are in zone 4 or above you risk condensation without an exterior insulation thermal break, and overall it makes sense to stick with 2x6 or 2x8 and add the insulation on the outside. Like you have a three inch gap here between the double internal walls you are packing with cellulose (3.5R/inch) when you can use that on the outside with polyiso (6.5R/inch).

    • @tommak6516
      @tommak6516 9 месяцев назад +3

      If your an old retired carpenter than chances are you never constructed anything like this.

    • @crzy11000
      @crzy11000 Месяц назад

      @@tommak6516 depends where your from. I live in Saskatchewan Canada and my dads friend built his home like this in early 1980's He is now in his 80's

  • @davej7458
    @davej7458 10 месяцев назад +33

    Three questions.
    How do you do fire blocking when necessary?
    How do you do the framing around window and door openings?
    How do you do top plates particularly where trusses or rafters intersect?

    • @OKOKOKOKOKOKOK-zn2fy
      @OKOKOKOKOKOKOK-zn2fy 9 месяцев назад

      Good questions. Nothing is made to fit this wall thickness.

    • @PeroMenalo
      @PeroMenalo 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@OKOKOKOKOKOKOK-zn2fy for the windows, you can easily, if needed, use plywood to make sils before the windows or doors go in, it will also give you large lips on the inside and outside.
      I would even make the argument that having a chase wall like that is good for your duct work, since you give them adequate space and enough insulation around them as well

    • @A-Sidhu
      @A-Sidhu 9 месяцев назад +2

      the insulation would be the fire block. Or use Rockwool if you need to

    • @paulmaxwell8851
      @paulmaxwell8851 9 месяцев назад +2

      Correct. The cellulose IS the fireblock.@@A-Sidhu

    • @paulmaxwell8851
      @paulmaxwell8851 9 месяцев назад +1

      We build plywood window bucks. Child's play. If you've ever built a log home or a straw bale home this is a very familiar technique.

  • @mikewarfel7511
    @mikewarfel7511 9 месяцев назад +10

    I built this design 35 yesrs ago with 12 invh heel height om the ranch we've living in. Works extremely well

    • @steveschultz300
      @steveschultz300 8 месяцев назад

      What part of the country are you in? Would something like this wall system work in the Texas climate?

    • @kerrryschultz2904
      @kerrryschultz2904 8 месяцев назад

      @@steveschultz300 Anytime you increase the potential R value, you reduce your heating or cooling load. In Texas were you predominately have a cooling load your vapor barrier needs to go to the side with the heat, which would be on the outside studs.A 11/2 inch layer of closed cell foam would make a very good vapor barrier. Your windows are the weakest link in the chain.

    • @101sabre
      @101sabre 7 месяцев назад

      Triple pane windows,@@kerrryschultz2904

  • @jeffsavage7135
    @jeffsavage7135 9 месяцев назад +11

    In many places, code is still a single 2×4 wall. Thermal break is not usually part of code. The reason 2×6 walls are used is to attain the necessary R-value required by code. The 2×6 wall is the cheapest too. Now if you want cheaper than this double wall while maintaining the thermal break, use a single 2×4 and then completely sheet the exterior in rigid foam insulation.

    • @A-Sidhu
      @A-Sidhu 9 месяцев назад +3

      Probably shouldn't use a 2x4 exterior loadbearing wall in a quality house. Think about mechanical penetrations in a 2x4 wall. Exterior Rigid Foam will require extra skills and labour from the installers. However, exterior insulation is superior than a double wall system, especially if you use vapour-permeable rock wool insulation.

    • @jamesready5
      @jamesready5 9 месяцев назад +2

      Ontario (Canada) building code it’s now required to have exterior rigid foam insulation for thermal bridging.
      2x4 is structurally sound for framing.

    • @A-Sidhu
      @A-Sidhu 9 месяцев назад +2

      @jamesready5 2x4 is structurally sound but a 2x6 is much better if you have any mechanical penetrations. The cost difference is not much either. Build higher quality always. 👌

    • @jeffsavage7135
      @jeffsavage7135 9 месяцев назад +2

      @A-Sidhu depending on design and location size constraints, in very small houses inches count and the difference between 2×4 and 2×6 could feel like it is a much greater loss of interior space than the two inches actually measures.

    • @jamesready5
      @jamesready5 9 месяцев назад +2

      @@A-Sidhu For sure. And in Ontario 2x6 is still required for code for the R value.
      You could use thinner if you could achieve the R value required by code, but I agree, once you stick an electrical box in a 2x4 wall you don’t have much insulation behind it.
      And if your using anything but spray foam in that situation you better have and insulation and vapour barrier contractor that cares otherwise you’ll probably have gaps and energy loss.

  • @jctai100
    @jctai100 10 месяцев назад +7

    It's great to see a channel like this geared towards Canadian prairie climates. I follow Risinger and similar channels but I think you're the first I see in AB!

    • @kennorthunder2428
      @kennorthunder2428 9 месяцев назад

      👍

    • @kerrryschultz2904
      @kerrryschultz2904 8 месяцев назад

      In the inner framing I would have liked to see the studs staggered away from the outside wall studs, yielding a higher overall R wall value. 10 inch overall minus 7 inch of wood with 3 inches of cellulose yields about R 16 at the studs. Based on R 3 per inch of cellulose. Stud off set gives 3 1/2 inches of wood plus 6 1/2 inches of cellulose. Yields about R 21. Wood has an R value of about R 1 per inch.

  • @neeosstuff7540
    @neeosstuff7540 10 месяцев назад +71

    It looks like their isn't an effective fire block between the bottom half and top half of the wall. So fire could spread much faster.

    • @Freight_Train
      @Freight_Train 10 месяцев назад +13

      I was thinking that too. I think it would be a code violation here.

    • @andrewdalgarno5322
      @andrewdalgarno5322 10 месяцев назад +12

      I was noticing that too. Balloon framing was eliminated in most building codes due to the lack of fire barrier. Would definitely be better with some type of barrier at the floor level.

    • @bobpourri9647
      @bobpourri9647 10 месяцев назад +12

      Same here. I worked with an electrician on roughs, and we had to be sure to plug our little holes with packed insulation when we drilled through a fire-block to run Romex. These walls have no block at all: Like old balloon construction.

    • @morninboy
      @morninboy 10 месяцев назад +16

      The dense packed cellulos is a fire block. It is treated with borates and noncombustable.

    • @stich1960
      @stich1960 10 месяцев назад +3

      Sense pack or rockwholl qualifies

  • @richvail7551
    @richvail7551 10 месяцев назад +12

    With thicker walls makes smaller rooms, this means that most people will want to build a wider foundation to compensate for the loss of room. So adding more concrete, sheeting, shingles and siding plus hardware I’m thinking the price of the studs will probably favour the 2x6. But I’m sure the gain in heat loss prevention would make up that difference in the long term.
    Definitely something to consider but certainly not a simple decision.

    • @AbbreviatedReviews
      @AbbreviatedReviews 9 месяцев назад

      I was curious, and I'm not sure about the math, but for a 2000 sq ft house with 6 inch studs it would be 90 sq ft of stud space and a 10 inch double stud base would be 150 sq ft of total stud space.
      So across the whole house space you're losing 60 sq ft. As a single room, that's like losing a bathroom, but spread across like 9 or 10 rooms, I don't think it would be too bad.

    • @richvail7551
      @richvail7551 9 месяцев назад

      @@AbbreviatedReviews It’s not bad, but I think most people would want the extra bathroom option and without doing the cost analysis, I’m pretty sure they’d just put the extra footage into the foundation thinking what’s another few feet gonna cost.
      I’m thinking it will be a noticeable amount.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      Or he could use exterior insulation with an r value of 5 per inch that doesn't take up foundation space like everyone else. 2x6 is R-19 and 2" exterior is another 10. Exterior foam probably stops air and water better than cellulose.

  • @SK13SFS
    @SK13SFS 9 месяцев назад +1

    Nice to see a Canadian Company revisiting the double wall system. We used this idea back in the early to mid 70's with great success. We actually lived in and owned a house with these type of 10" walls. This is getting closer to the Canadian building code changes coming in 2030. Now you need to work on fixing the thermal bridges at the top and bottom of the exterior walls and using an insulation like rock wool or spray in closed cell foam insulation to stop the gravitational settling that the lesser quality fiberglass insulations always do (except the paper backed pink stuff).

  • @crabkilla
    @crabkilla 10 месяцев назад +28

    LABOR LABOR LABOR - who cares what the stud costs. Let's see the window buck detail on this 10-inch wall. I would use Zip-R sheathing on 2x6 walls. One pass for labor, thermal breaks, and airtightness. The key here is "one pass" for labor. Lastly Zip R is a simpler system to install versus exterior sheathing, tyvek and exterior insulation and has far less installation failure and quality issues from said labor

    • @approots
      @approots 10 месяцев назад +1

      Slap some plywood around the openings? The window/door bucks for exterior insulation are more difficult to install and waterproof I'd think.

    • @Central-oregon-vernacular
      @Central-oregon-vernacular 2 месяца назад +1

      Exactly my thought. The extra cost of insulated zip panels is easily offset by the extra materials and labor for double wall construction. The other benefit is much better air control.

    • @crabkilla
      @crabkilla 2 месяца назад +1

      @@approots window buck details for zip R are easy. The advantage of Zip R is that the insulation is on the backside of the Zip

  • @InvisibleCitizen
    @InvisibleCitizen 4 месяца назад +2

    While i have been using this double stud wall design for decades however I stagger the studs halfway between each other. This way I can use stardard stud alley insulation bats in each wall. The outer wall get no vapor barrier batten and the inner wall gets the vapor barrier. Cheers!

  • @michaelkistner6286
    @michaelkistner6286 9 месяцев назад +6

    I was a manager for a restoration company and can tell you that if you get water in that cellulose packed wall you're going to have to remove the insulation in order to get things dry. Mold loves cellulose since it's essentially paper. You could hire an insulation contractor to reinstall it, but I imagine the cost of doing little patch jobs in a finished space isn't going to be covered by your insurance company. At the very least I'd make sure it was covered when I purchased insurance.

    • @michaelkistner6286
      @michaelkistner6286 4 месяца назад

      Yep. In addition your moisture barrier has to be installed perfectly, at least in cold areas, or you're going to get frost inside the cavity which will melt when things warm up and now you're got all three things mold needs in order to grow-- food, warmth, and water.

  • @OwlMoovement
    @OwlMoovement Месяц назад

    Very cool. With the thicker walls and lack of thermal bridging, I'd love to see this combined with straw bale construction.

  • @kenchapman6316
    @kenchapman6316 10 месяцев назад +8

    I love the double stud design! Very curious about your ceiling installation. Do you have a conditioned attic in this home? Insulation in the ceiling joists or roof rafters?
    Would love more details on this fascinating project

  • @jasonsmith373
    @jasonsmith373 8 месяцев назад +1

    Very nice. Great thinking outside the box. I may incorporate Sorensen's system into my future outbuilding/workshop - the minimum extra investment in studs & insulation will pay for itself in heating cost savings.

  • @ChrisR1270
    @ChrisR1270 10 месяцев назад +6

    If you're looking for a certain size room, the foundation has to be increased in size to accommodate the additional framing. That and the increased cost of more wall lumber and rafters which increases the cost substantially. Not to mention the added labor cost. Perhaps, if I were building the home myself, it may be worth the extra expense.

    • @renalshomlmes338
      @renalshomlmes338 9 месяцев назад

      Not really. Yes it will cost more, but not that much % wise. Estimate a house cost, then all for another for a 1ft bigger or smaller. Won't be that much overall.

    • @markwriter2698
      @markwriter2698 Месяц назад

      If you build it, you’ll certainly come out ahead. I like the idea of quiet too. I live so far south I simply went with 2x6 because the windows are no where near wall R value.

    • @richdobbs6595
      @richdobbs6595 7 дней назад

      I'm not sure, but wouldn't the interior wall be non-load bearing, so it shouldn't ever require the foundation to be increased. I doubt that weight of interior walls has any impact on foundation design.

  • @donaldteuber8588
    @donaldteuber8588 8 месяцев назад +2

    This method not only provides a better thermal barrier ,it also gives a superior s.t.f. sound transmission factor. So.. warmer in the winter..cooler in the summer.. and quieter year rough. A win/win situation.

    • @richdobbs6595
      @richdobbs6595 7 дней назад

      Thermal break, but the sheathing still provides a condensing surface. I hope that I can afford external insulation so my sheathing isn't a condensing surface.

  • @lemmegetone
    @lemmegetone 10 месяцев назад +3

    What about just doing a layer of rigid foam on the sheathing for a thermal break? Thanks for the vid

  • @matthewbattie1022
    @matthewbattie1022 10 месяцев назад +1

    Ive been a builder my entire life, and I am very impressed by this level of care in design and build!

    • @davecruz9893
      @davecruz9893 10 месяцев назад

      Maybe if you build ONE house a year...and have an unlimited budget....Please your being banboozled here but good...

    • @matthewbattie1022
      @matthewbattie1022 10 месяцев назад

      It's not a technique for all enviroments, but many of the places I have built are so cold it would save you money to build like this. I often find 2x6's to cost more than two 2x4's anyway. @@davecruz9893

    • @kerrryschultz2904
      @kerrryschultz2904 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@davecruz9893 So says the guy that doesn't think about life cycle costs of heating a building.

    • @brianmcdowell7377
      @brianmcdowell7377 8 месяцев назад

      Is your house built this way?
      Didnt think so, go get another booster shot 😮​@@kerrryschultz2904

  • @r.l.royalljr.3905
    @r.l.royalljr.3905 10 месяцев назад +11

    If the 3" gap runs completely open from the first floor past the second floor and into the attic, does that cause a potential fire hazard since there's no firebreak at the top plate anymore?

    • @Cadaverine1990
      @Cadaverine1990 10 месяцев назад +1

      This could easily be solved with a Polystyrene barrier at the top of the floors, but yes as they were described there would airflow allowed. However it would be very minor as fiberglass batt would still slow the airflow by 60-75%

    • @Cadaverine1990
      @Cadaverine1990 10 месяцев назад

      This could easily be solved with a Polystyrene barrier at the top of the floors, but yes as they were described there would airflow allowed. However it would be very minor as fiberglass batt would still slow the airflow by 60-75%

    • @phillatshaw7219
      @phillatshaw7219 10 месяцев назад +4

      Polystyrene is not an acceptable fire breaker. That would actually feed the fire.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад +1

      Cellulose is fire proof.

    • @KeithOlson
      @KeithOlson 9 месяцев назад +2

      @@MurDocInc "Cellulose is fire proof."
      Slight correction: Cellulose is *HIGHLY* flammable, but the ammonium sulfate and borate that it is treated with almost completely negates that.

  • @paullt5111
    @paullt5111 9 месяцев назад

    I don’t know if I want to loose so much interior space. Like to support your channel

  • @clutteredchicagogarage2720
    @clutteredchicagogarage2720 10 месяцев назад +4

    I like this wall assembly anywhere that you have detached homes. I live in a big city in a narrow row house (terraced home), and it would be unfortunate to lose a few inches on each side if I were to remodel my home and add insulation. But if you have a few meters around your house on all sides then I think it makes more sense to build double walls with a proper thermal break.
    If i were doing this, instead of using cellulose, I would build with separate layers of insulation to make it easy to run mechanicals through the gap between the 2x4 walls. I think that’s a huge benefit of this wall assembly. You can run plumbing and electrical in between the 2x4 walls without drilling into studs.
    I think the ideal system would be to spray-foam the outer wall and then fill the cavity and also the inner wall with mineral wool batt insulation. Yes, that would be more expensive than cellulose, but it would perform well, and I think it would make it easier to run, fix or remodel mechanicals. The sound dampening on that system would be amazing.

    • @Bill.Pearson
      @Bill.Pearson 10 месяцев назад

      You don't need to insulate the common walls. The sides of your house have heated houses on the other side of them. There's no reason to insulate your house from a heated neighbor's house. Just insulate the walls that are exposed to the outside air.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад

      That doesn`t make sense, mechanical rough ins are done before insulation. It's harder to run and cut batts around mechanicals, cellulose will fill in those spaces way faster and easier.
      Also thick walls you want to keep vapor open cause they can trap moisture so you want any moisture to dry out, spray foam would trap moisture and possibly cause rot.
      Cellulose also manages moisture better than other insulations, it's fire proof and lot cheaper than rockwool.

  • @ryandubyah2345
    @ryandubyah2345 10 месяцев назад

    I came into this video expecting something I’d really want to tear apart and dissect, but I really enjoyed this! Thanks very much!

  • @richardferster8049
    @richardferster8049 10 месяцев назад +10

    My brother finished a home recently, he estimated that, with all of the 'environment saving' innovations, he had to add,[due to BC code] approximately 100 thousand $ Can., to the cost of a 1600 SQ ft. home. That includes double framing, & costs, far more insulation,[that cellulose is going to settle], and mechanical air re & re, long list to be continued. The house is warm and dry, suffocating, without windows 'cracked open', but he now has to run air exchange fans, etc. because the house is so air tight. This guy is catering to his obviously 'better off' clientele. That 100 grand @ 5% or what have you paying substantially more and longer then slightly older still efficient methods of building. I have seen it first hand.

  • @arthurperrea3714
    @arthurperrea3714 10 месяцев назад +2

    I built a double wall construction but I off set the inside wall studding 12 inch which gave me less thermo bridging except the windows and doors I kept in line with the outside

  • @QBRX
    @QBRX 10 месяцев назад +6

    In my house we separated the 2 studs with 1 inch polystyrene, then blew in cellulose behind it and put in fiberglass batts in the inside wall. Seems to work pretty well.

    • @jamesdavison2416
      @jamesdavison2416 10 месяцев назад

      i like that head-space ... good thinking

  • @sebastiencharette6637
    @sebastiencharette6637 10 месяцев назад +2

    Was working on a house from the 50s. It had 6" top and bottom plate with staggered 2x4 studs to each side of the wall. So 24" on each side to mount drywall. but it had less transfer of noise and temperature. All inside walls and exterior walls were done like that

    • @brianedminster7556
      @brianedminster7556 2 месяца назад

      Back in the early 70's I helped my dad build an addition across the back of our house, to add a family room and bedroom. We built the interior wall between them this way, to keep the bedroom quiet, even though adjacent to the family room. Worked great.

  • @BOAH247
    @BOAH247 10 месяцев назад +12

    The cost makes sense if you are building with 2x4x8 where it’s $3.98 vs 2x6x8 which is $6.23 in my area local Home Depot New Jersey. But when you go up to 2x4x 10 and 2x6x10, the cost is $1.29 difference. $6.54 and $7.82

    • @waterbug1135
      @waterbug1135 10 месяцев назад +1

      That's why I use standard 2x4 and then layer 2x2 furring for the inside. First layer on diagonal for shear so no OSB or ply is needed. Furring can be cull and/or salvaged 2x's ripped to 2x2. I never understood why even 2x6's were used. Super easy to shim out the final vertical 2x2's to get a very plumb and flat wall. Future warping risk is greatly reduced in a 2x2 and virtually impossible in salvaged wood. No top or bottom plate is needed for the furring so 2x4 plates can be used.

    • @timhallas4275
      @timhallas4275 10 месяцев назад +3

      Let's not forget the additional labor for building two houses instead of one.

    • @BOAH247
      @BOAH247 10 месяцев назад

      @@timhallas4275 Only exterior walls is done that way so it's not actually 2 houses.

    • @snap-off5383
      @snap-off5383 10 месяцев назад

      Nobody buys lumber from home depot to build homes, those are remodel sticks.

    • @timhallas4275
      @timhallas4275 10 месяцев назад

      @@BOAH247I know that. I was talking about the exterior framing.

  • @jwalkerC21
    @jwalkerC21 8 месяцев назад

    we had the dense pack in the apartments we used to manage, very quiet neighbors, and cheap utilities.

  • @Mika-px6po
    @Mika-px6po 9 месяцев назад +3

    Thanks for the great video! It's great to see builders exploring options and sharing their experience around deep walls. In terms of options, have you experimented or reviewed other wall assembly types? ie 2x4 with outsilation?

  • @budlite8207
    @budlite8207 8 месяцев назад +1

    We have some commercial buildings that use this method in noisy areas such as along train tracks and hiways. Excellent for sound.

  • @rhhobbit
    @rhhobbit 11 месяцев назад +5

    Very interesting approach. Thanks for sharing with the community.

  • @brettb614
    @brettb614 9 месяцев назад

    You make great videos, sir.
    Builder here with 30 years in the industry. I have some bad news.
    1) All cellulose wall fill settles, even dense pack. I use a thermal imager to inspect homes and it's pretty obvious. The only folks who say it doesn't settle are those that want to sell it to you. Experience tells me otherwise.
    2) The house shown in this video (as framed) will not meet fire code in most jurisdictions (at least here in the US). Fire is required to be contained to each floor, and you do not have this with this framing type. If the insulation can flow directly form the second floor down to the first floor walls, so will fire.
    3) Framing with double 2x4 construction has some draw backs (although we did it for years before the updated model energy code requirements).
    construction

  • @dc-wp8oc
    @dc-wp8oc 10 месяцев назад +16

    More lumber makes more waste and more lumber mean more labor to install. Interested to see a breakdown of all the costs.

    • @PandorasFolly
      @PandorasFolly 10 месяцев назад +2

      I recently built a 2x4 double stud house with 8-10inches of cellulose in the walls and 35 inches in the ceiling with "Aeroseal" installed. The other building method we were looking at was 2x6 with spray foam. I think we ended saving about 12k$-20k$ depending which sprayfoam contractor we talked to. Though i did most of the work myself and didn't have to spend extra money on extra labor.
      One thing we definitely noticed is how silent the house is with the double wall

    • @waterbug1135
      @waterbug1135 10 месяцев назад +2

      I use layers of 2x2 furring on the inside of a standard 2x4 wall. First layer on a 45. I use salvaged lumber I rip into 2x2's. I love all the waste on new build sites because that's my lumber store. It is of course more labor but I slow flip houses so I don't mind trading time for lower material cost. And of course there's no way all homes could be build using salvaged lumber because there wouldn't be enough. But I'm happy to exploit this niche.

    • @timhallas4275
      @timhallas4275 10 месяцев назад +2

      The average cost (labor and materials) of building the second interior stud wall adds about 15% to the overall framing cost. This will always far exceed the cost of doubling the exterior insulation thickness.....AND it reduces the interior space by 8%. Not to mention the additional cost of window installations.

  • @whathappened2230
    @whathappened2230 8 месяцев назад +1

    Thank you for this video! Nice to see ideas form others so we can combine the best things into one solution.

  • @tacticalskiffs8134
    @tacticalskiffs8134 9 месяцев назад +1

    Makes sense, and I know of a few people who live north in Canada who have double walls, and swear by them. The only thing that worries me is that one of the "benefits" of 2x6 walls was that the lumber is better quality. Getting any 2x4 lumber these days that isn't a joke is nearly impossible. I realize that lumber quality and availability varies a lot by region, but where I am the quality increases markedly in the larger dimensions. Then the other question is whether 2x6 with foam on the outside for the break, is easier to build and just as efficient for less loss of floor area in tighter urban floor plans.

  • @dbarr8261
    @dbarr8261 10 месяцев назад +4

    He didnt mention it, but plumbers love it too. 10" of space to hide a lot plumbing and less chance of nailing into pipes.

  • @davidjaap2130
    @davidjaap2130 3 месяца назад

    It sounds like you basically built a house within a house. I had similar ideas years ago but never came to fruition. Good luck. 🙏❤😊

  • @Thatsmessedupman
    @Thatsmessedupman 11 месяцев назад +9

    Is the second floor truss only sitting on a single plate 2x4 wall(your inner layer of the exterior wall) I am trying to understand if the load is transferring . If the inner and outer exterior wall are not tied together and the second floor is only on the inner wall then is your max load rating based on 2x4?

    • @evanhughes3027
      @evanhughes3027 10 месяцев назад +2

      It looked to me like a double plate 2x4 wall is taking the second floor load.

    • @alphajunky
      @alphajunky 10 месяцев назад

      Also, the inner 2x4 wall has no sheathing. What gives it any racking strength? I suppose there is no wind blowing against the inner wall. But wouldn't any shaking eventually try to collapse the parallelogram if there are no diagonals?

  • @Resist.Tyranny
    @Resist.Tyranny 5 месяцев назад

    1. Offset the inner and outer studs will slightly improve insulation.
    2. Raised heel truss will allow the wall cavity to be open to the roof insulation such that any insulation settling will have a huge reservoir from the roof area, and still leave no uninsulated gaps.
    3. Condensation/water is the biggest problem with highly insulated double wall. There are quite a number of things online on how to carefully deal with permeability and vapor and condensation. Anything else may be good for a while, but later be moldy and decay prone.

  • @bwillan
    @bwillan 10 месяцев назад +11

    What about just adding exterior insulation with the sheathing? Like Zip-R panels, or adding Poly-Iso or EPS panels then regular sheathing.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад

      It's good idea in the south, in north where you need 10"+ of insulation. Adding 4-8" of exterior insulation becomes really expensive and more complicated with details like long screws & window bucks. Cellulose is also an 3rd of rigid insulation cost.

    • @DeuceDeuceBravo
      @DeuceDeuceBravo 10 месяцев назад +1

      Zip is overrated, and polyiso loses R-value in the cold. But plywood sheathing + self-adhered membrane + semi-rigid mineral wool is a great way to build a wall.

  • @dennissmith5837
    @dennissmith5837 8 месяцев назад

    I liked your video and here is why. I worked some construction after high school while going to college. I’ve since built two houses for myself and agree with your concept. The first house I built with double 2 x 4 walls. The second wall was approximately 1/4 inch inside the outside wall. I off set the studs and insulated both with fiberglass insulation. Between the top plates and bottom plates I put sill seal on edge for a thermal break as well where the cripples and studs were at a door or window opening. I then framed those rough openings with 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood for strength.
    My second house I was talked into building with 2 x 6 studs. I am so mad at myself for getting pursued to use 2 x 6 studs and vinyl siding. The insulation and sound barrier is terrible. If . . . I ever build again it will be a double 2 x 4 wall building. My first house heated for almost nothing I. Wisconsin. The 2 x 6 house is terrible to heat.

  • @brucemccauley8887
    @brucemccauley8887 10 месяцев назад +9

    I wonder why the studs are lined up on both walls and not staggered to the best distance on inside and outside, say 16" o.c. from inside corner for Gyp. Bd. and 16" o.c. from exterior corner for siding on outside. Is there a reason they are lined up?

    • @paperburn
      @paperburn 10 месяцев назад

      His second story joist have to line up with the download. But as just from an insulation perspective yes offset would be better

    • @brucemccauley8887
      @brucemccauley8887 10 месяцев назад +2

      Joists don't have to line up with the studs, the double top plate carries that load to the wall stud assembly

    • @paperburn
      @paperburn 10 месяцев назад

      on one section I only saw a single plate@@brucemccauley8887

  • @goetzfrank4090
    @goetzfrank4090 9 месяцев назад +2

    I would suggest that you also explore exterior continuous insulation in combination with a rain screen, my favorite wall assembly. The rain screen is really bulletproof in terms of waterproofing and the exterior insulation can be varied in thickness to achieve the desired performance. One could even explore (and analyze cost) to do no cavity insulation at all and save the working step and only provide exterior continuous insulation. An additional 1-2” would most likely replace the cavity insulation. this is because the studs degrade the thermal performance so much. The exterior continuous insulation can also very nicely line up with an exterior insulation at the concrete base wall or slab on grade. Food for thought…..

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      A 2x6 wall with Roxul and 2" polyiso continuous exterior insulation, and rain screen will probably last longer. Cellulose isn't great if there's any moisture and it settles.

  • @all8849
    @all8849 10 месяцев назад +6

    I think its a good way to get better sound isolation as well as added comfort but you also need to look at the whole assembly like getting better windows, thicker insulation not to mention the added labor cost of an inside 2 x 4 wall. Depending on cost of construction in your area, return on investment (energy savings vs cost) might take a while also. It would be interesting to know by how much resale value is affected too.

  • @jimhoward6584
    @jimhoward6584 2 месяца назад

    In 1978 I built a 2200 sq. ft. house and built the exterior walls with 2x10 top and bottom plates and also same for window/door framing but used 2 sets of 2x4 studs. Fiber glass batt insulation was available for this exact thickness. R 30 if i remember correctly ? Blown in cellulouse in the ceiling for R 50. This was in Fairbanks Alaska. I used roughly half of the heating oil that a same size house with 2x6 exterior walls used.

  • @daviddestefano4839
    @daviddestefano4839 10 месяцев назад +4

    But there is an extra cost in foundation/slab? It has to accommodate the walls to maintain the square footage inside the home. With additional cost of 2 by 4, are the energy costs substantial to outweigh material costs?
    Is the warmth/cooling of the home offer significantly more comfort with a double wall system?

    • @KPHVAC
      @KPHVAC 10 месяцев назад

      I'm in HVAC design and sales in Washington state. Upgrading the insulation and making a home air tight can be a huge savings! I still think the weakest link is windows. Most custom homes have way too many windows that are far too large. The best windows are usually only about R5.

  • @dennissmith5837
    @dennissmith5837 8 месяцев назад +1

    Also, in the late 70s a construction company built 12 inch walls, call an envelope of house. The outside wall was 204 with the insulation going up and down and it was a 3 1/2 inch gap with the insulation laying on edge, filling the opening, and then another 2 x 4 wall on the inside. The vapor barrier was on the outside of the inside wall to try to combat a moisture problem. A number of years later some of those houses had been remodeled and they found mold and several of the walls. I would recommend anybody looking to try something like that to check with a current engineer or architect for advice on that.
    Also something I forgot, the space between my inside wall, and my outside stud wall was a perfect place to run the wiring without having to drill through the studs and I did not have to worry about hanging a picture or anything on the wall and hitting the electrical wiring because it was a full 3 1/2 inches away from the exterior of the house.

  • @t.tielemans9303
    @t.tielemans9303 10 месяцев назад +13

    The second floor is placed on is single top plate and a wall that has no sheer strength. Is that approved by your engineer? And how about extra labour costs?

    • @floridagunrat1625
      @floridagunrat1625 10 месяцев назад

      It won't meet code here particularly in reference to Hurricane wind loading

    • @waterbug1135
      @waterbug1135 10 месяцев назад +2

      Not sure why you're thinking there's anything different from a standard build. The outside 2x4, plates and OSB would all be standard structure. The wider plates and inner 2x4's wouldn't be structural. They're just there as drywall nailers.
      For example I flip 1940's houses and I remove drywall and screw 2x2's on 45 to the inside of original 2x4's studs and then vertical 2x2's. Same result as in the video, almost no wood thermal bridging. Furring isn't load bearing. However I only do single story houses so not sure if there's something I'm missing.

    • @urphonesucks
      @urphonesucks 3 месяца назад

      ​@@waterbug1135Except he's bearing on the interior studs which aren't sheared and no diaphragm connection at floor level to name just a couple major structural flaws with this approach. No continuous load path for both lateral and gravity loads. Two story tall 2x4 balloon frames exterior studs not braced at the floor so you don't have a thermal bridge? Foolishness!

  • @robobrio3580
    @robobrio3580 Месяц назад

    In Amurica, i just used SIPs and ran wiring inside a baseboard trim detail never thru a panel. You actually have to have a decent design up front to do this.
    Builders never change.

  • @nickmarra6407
    @nickmarra6407 10 месяцев назад +3

    Before jumping into this, do comparisons for windows and doors. I was going to do a 2x8 wall but the doors were considerably more money. Also consider 2x6 walls at 19.2 on center and use spray foam insulation.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      Continuous exterior insulation. That's outside space not on your foundation. That's an R value of 5 per inch minimum compared to 3-3.5 for cavity insulation.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      A 2x4 with R-13 cavity insulation and two inches of exterior insulation with an r value of 5 gets you to R-23.

  • @SophiaAphrodite
    @SophiaAphrodite Месяц назад

    I am doing this on the windward side of my 1887 home I am renovating. I am putting a gap plus a 2x4 wall to make the side that gets the most cold over insulated. Granted my house has ACTUAL 2x4s so this will give me 10 inches of a barrier from the siding.

  • @bman6502
    @bman6502 10 месяцев назад +245

    2x4 cost $3.5, 2x6 cost $5.5, so the double 2x4 wall would be $1.5 more per stud…

    • @explor360
      @explor360 10 месяцев назад +91

      Not to mention additional labor costs…

    • @johnboyle1146
      @johnboyle1146 10 месяцев назад +66

      Plus double the labor, construction is too expensive as it is!

    • @oltedders
      @oltedders 10 месяцев назад +110

      This is construction for sound proofing a recording studio. A cheaper option for sound proofing with highly effective results is using a 2"x6" plate with staggered 2"x4"s 1foot on center. Insulation snaked in between horizontally so that each stud has a dead air space on both of its sides with no communication from wall to wall.

    • @frankvuong1080
      @frankvuong1080 10 месяцев назад +20

      Is seems like it would be soundproof as well. I think your right about cost effectiveness. Twice the 2x4 doesn't really translate to cheaper cost in terms of price of one 2x6.... Although wiring would be easier!

    • @oltedders
      @oltedders 10 месяцев назад +10

      You essentially have 2 walls on 2' centers sharing the same plate.

  • @Kenzie_Hill
    @Kenzie_Hill 10 месяцев назад +2

    Love that the thermal break is shown as the most important factor and at 60% of the cost!
    Worth it to sacrifice 7" plus you can create character with deep set windows
    ❤❤❤❤❤

    • @ClinttheGreat
      @ClinttheGreat 10 месяцев назад +2

      By the time you build the second wall, it actually costs more. He stated 2x4s cost 60% of what a 2x6 costs, buy you're using twice as many 2x4s, so it actually costs more.

    • @PeterLawton
      @PeterLawton 10 месяцев назад

      @@ClinttheGreat 2 x 60 % = 120 %, so 20 % more, to be specific. I like the benefit, though. That 20 % is a one-time fixed cost (construction), but the energy savings are year round forever (recurring cost).

  • @CharlieH_design
    @CharlieH_design 10 месяцев назад +5

    I like the Double Stud Wall! Are you using any exterior insulation? If no exterior insulation and only depending on wall thickness, how does this affect the exterior sheathing getting cold and causing condensation? It looks like you are not using an air-tight membrane on the inside to prevent moisture from moving from inside to cold outside. How does this work?

    • @mattmag3089
      @mattmag3089 10 месяцев назад

      Depending on your zone, latex paint will suffice
      Edit: I'm sure you know, but when you move down into a more air conditioned zone, that moisture barrier on the inside isn't the way to go because of cold interiors instead of Northern cold exteriors

    • @bradley3549
      @bradley3549 9 месяцев назад

      This is a good consideration. A lot of folks want 2/3 of the total R-value on the exterior if exterior foam is used. In this case, that's simply not posisble. But also, not necessary either I reckon as an 8+" thick wall with no thermal bridging is pretty darn good anyway.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      ​@@bradley3549If you are zone 4, or higher especially in the moist area than you will risk condensation on the inside of your sheathing during the colder month of the year. Exterior insulation keeps the sheathing warm above the dew point and prevents this from happening

    • @bradley3549
      @bradley3549 9 месяцев назад

      @@williamwchuang I did a poor job explaining, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. There is a caveat you don't mention and that is that you need exterior insulation. If you have an R25 wall and only put R5 exterior foam, the inside of your sheathing will still drop below the dew point. And if that exterior insulation is vapor retarding foam, now you have a real problem.
      The thicker your wall, the more exterior insulation you need to prevent that. At beyond a certain point, adding more insulation to the exterior wall becomes impractical. That was the point I was trying to make.

  • @robertaylor9218
    @robertaylor9218 4 месяца назад +1

    So how do you fire-block the cavity?

  • @thefrub
    @thefrub 10 месяцев назад +11

    Err that gap around the second floor might violate firebreak codes

    • @approots
      @approots 10 месяцев назад +1

      Insulation is a fire block.

    • @andrewshedron425
      @andrewshedron425 10 месяцев назад +2

      ​​@@approotsno it isn't

    • @LogansRun314
      @LogansRun314 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@andrewshedron425 yes it is. Only if there's an actual air gap would it break fire code. Also, try setting dense pack cellulose on fire😅

    • @approots
      @approots 10 месяцев назад

      @@andrewshedron425 lol yes it is. Have a look at the building code or google or just think about it. When you restrict airflow through cavities you restrict fire.

  • @hobbyhoundsmt5525
    @hobbyhoundsmt5525 10 месяцев назад +9

    Maybe use a 2*10 top and bottom plate and stagger the 2*4 studs from outside to inside.

    • @AZ-vt7dt
      @AZ-vt7dt 10 месяцев назад +1

      The plates would be a no no...a thermal connection from outside to inside. The separation is the must in this method.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад +2

      ​@@AZ-vt7dt2x10 is roughly R13 which is considered enough for thermal break in building science.

    • @AZ-vt7dt
      @AZ-vt7dt 10 месяцев назад

      if 2 x 10 is touching outside sheathing....that's no good unless there is r-max/eps on outside of sheathing...that 2 x 10 will transfer cold right to backside sheetrock.@@MurDocInc

    • @Krunch2020
      @Krunch2020 7 месяцев назад

      @@AZ-vt7dt There must be fire blocking. You will always have some thermal bridges. The windows are the worst part of a wall by far.

  • @canadiansnowplowguy2852
    @canadiansnowplowguy2852 2 месяца назад

    Great build! This is definitely a well built house

  • @DeereX748
    @DeereX748 10 месяцев назад +6

    Why not stagger the studs on the two walls? You could decrease the distance between the parallel walls and still maintain a wider thermal break between them. With the studs in line with each other, and then insulate the double wall, the R value in the narrow spot between the parallel studs is less than the spaces between them. With the studs staggered, and then insulated, the R value is almost constant along the wall. The staggered studs don't change how windows and doorways get framed in.

    • @946towguy2
      @946towguy2 10 месяцев назад

      That's what I do. I stagger interior and exterior 2x4 on 2x6 or 2x8 plates.

    • @MurDocInc
      @MurDocInc 10 месяцев назад +2

      Pretty much the same thing but double stud will be easier it frame. Imagine floating half the studs when framing on the floor, you need jigs and/or 2 guys.

    • @hiris1903
      @hiris1903 10 месяцев назад +1

      I learned about staggered studs in two rows of 2x4s back in 1980! IMO using Roxul batts and insulating the first row before building the second inside row would be the easiest way to insulate. I'm thinking the wiring would be easier to run, as it could go between the two walls of studs too (with stapling in place per code of course), so electicial costs might be reduced.

    • @paulmaxwell8851
      @paulmaxwell8851 9 месяцев назад +1

      It's six of one and half a dozen of another. Our home is staggered-stud, but our big workshop is aligned-stud. On paper, there IS a benefit to staggered-stud so that's why we did it. It's not more difficult, just different. Either way, double-stud is the only way we build these days.

  • @Rllasley
    @Rllasley 3 месяца назад +1

    Hello. Nice video...also, nice break down on 2x4 vs 2x6 studs....however, double 2x4 wall stops Thermal bridge...
    Know thermal bridge definition?....save $$...no more restaurant food(VERY UNHEALTHY), no $50,000.00- $90,000.00 vehicles, no more $$ draining computers, wide screen tv's, internet service....Great video...I am 66 years...my Grandfather and Father built Custom house(that turned Into homes)....i do Remodeling now(after career in music business-what? Can't hear you-please type louder!!) ...this technique is Very Smart...thanks for sharing!

  • @TdrSld
    @TdrSld 10 месяцев назад +6

    Man you need to look in to T-Studs, for what your doing the cost would most likely me less and with something like Zip-R you could build a much better walls with less labor and material cost.

    • @derekwynia9916
      @derekwynia9916 10 месяцев назад +2

      Agreed! T-studs plus zip-R seems like the much better solution to the problem he is trying to solve.

  • @ProfessorJM1
    @ProfessorJM1 10 месяцев назад

    And, If you do this (slightly modified/a lighter version) on interior walls you get soundproofing, too, so. Great info.

  • @kenchow8213
    @kenchow8213 10 месяцев назад +3

    It would be interesting to see a side-by-side total wall R value and cost comparison of 2x6 wall vs double 2x4 wall with gap vs 2x4 wall with exterior insulation vs 2x6 wall with exterior insulation.

    • @paperburn
      @paperburn 10 месяцев назад +1

      Joseph Lstiburek perfect wall . building science corporation has your answer. If you ever build a new house do it his way. has a series of very informative videos but a bit dry and he has cheap books on how to build the best house for your area. This broken wall is one of the things he recommends. It is called a Mooney wall.

    • @coreyfranco7060
      @coreyfranco7060 10 месяцев назад

      Doesn't this method violate the building code for fire blocking the wall cavity?

    • @paperburn
      @paperburn 10 месяцев назад

      dependent on area you live.@@coreyfranco7060

  • @PongoXBongo
    @PongoXBongo 8 месяцев назад

    This seems like a great way to retrofit an existing house. A homeowner could add the 2nd interior wall a room at a time without affecting the existing load-bearing structure. Only issue might be shifting electrical boxes and extending plumbing, but still within the realm of DIY.

  • @billvojtech5686
    @billvojtech5686 10 месяцев назад +4

    Two questions: Could you use 2x3s on the inside? How would this compare to a 2x6 wall sheathed with Zip-R?

    • @qlogic2002
      @qlogic2002 10 месяцев назад

      Lookup matt risinger engineered studs with dowels between them.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      The best R value to overall thickness is actually a system like the one you propose. Exterior foam has an r value of 5 while cavity insulation is 3-3.5. Adding 3 inches of exterior foam gives you 15 compared to 10.5 of internal cavity insulation. Cellulose and fiber class insulation also settle and clump due to moisture. While exterior foam doesn't have that problem. So it will probably be a better solution over the long term and by long-term I mean 10 years or more, maybe even 5 years

  • @user-bb1dy5gn7s
    @user-bb1dy5gn7s 10 месяцев назад +1

    Reading some of the comments, it's correct you need fire blocking. Also you need blocking for your plywood 9 ft wall 10 ft wall 12 ft wall something to look at.

  • @robertfrey3607
    @robertfrey3607 9 месяцев назад

    The added cost is labor, which is transferred to the customer. It has also been tests that show that cellulose settles over time leaving the top of the wall without insulation. That being said this is a great technique in colder regions.

  • @johnnylawson69
    @johnnylawson69 10 месяцев назад +3

    This is interesting. At this time, I can't see that it is better. Yes, those thick walls may save some on heating expense, but how much more savings there will be. Most of your heat loss is through the ceiling and not the sidewalls. I'm not sure where you are located, but in the United States we have to abide by the 2012 energy act. Obviously the double studs will comply with the act, but I'm not seeing the financial benefit. Maybe if I think about it more, I will.
    I do appreciate you putting yourself out there.

  • @InvisibleCitizen
    @InvisibleCitizen 8 месяцев назад

    I have been using a staggered 2X4 stud outer wall construction with an 2X8 cap and bottom plate. There is a stud every 12”. One stud on the outer side and 12” to a stud on the inner wall. Years ago I used standard 2X4 top and bottom plates on both walls but I prefer to tie them together now with the 2X8 plates.

    • @kerrryschultz2904
      @kerrryschultz2904 8 месяцев назад

      By using the 2 by 8 that limits you to a 7 1/2 inch cavity. Insulation is probably one of the cheapest long term investments depending on what you use to heat the home and where it is. In the prairies were -30 to -40 is common in winter the higher R value is a long term buffer on increasing heating costs.

  • @jeffmarett321
    @jeffmarett321 10 месяцев назад +6

    What happens when that blown in cellulose settles and now there's an air gap at the top?

    • @mikenotta7079
      @mikenotta7079 10 месяцев назад +4

      Blown in cellulose is what builders use for other people's homes. It's a critter haven and like you said, it will settle over time. My best uneducated guess is within 3-5 years you will lose significant r value.
      Best practice is exterior insulation and closed cell/Rockwood batt on interior. If money is no object, just fill the cavity with spay foam and call it a day.

    • @phamlam3720
      @phamlam3720 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@mikenotta7079There is a reason they call it dense pack. It is packed with enough density to avoid settling issue.
      If your walls have critters in it, there are other problems to address first.

  • @burnshirtvalleyfarm6337
    @burnshirtvalleyfarm6337 9 месяцев назад +1

    You need to consider dew point. If its 75 inside and 20 degrees outside there will be a gradient of descending temperature in your wall. At some point there will be a dew point where the warmer more humid air crosses the temp threshold where the air temp can no longer hold the water as vapor and it will condense. I build with 2/6 studs and put two layers of roxul comfort board 80 seams staggered. This helps to put the dew point in a non organic layer and keeps the wood sheathing warm to avoid rot. When you net large cavities you need to net the face and net back to make isolated pockets otherwise you keep blowing the Cellulose down the wall and dont get and even pack.

  • @BobBob-eh5sb
    @BobBob-eh5sb 10 месяцев назад +3

    I think they mean better value due to lower utility bills that will eventually pay for the extra cost of two walls. Been out of the construction game for 20 years, so not sure how many are using 2x6 walls, let alone this. Granted it would be just the outside walls, but still going to add cost and you’d be losing some square footage, especially with a 7” gap along with the 3 1/2” for the second 2by, that almost a square foot, times the lineal feet of the house.

    • @samelioto476
      @samelioto476 10 месяцев назад

      We started doing 2x6 walls in Lake Havasu AZ in the mid 70s. Electricity was expensive, and it's HOT there. I learned that there's no such thing as too much insulation.

    • @williamwchuang
      @williamwchuang 9 месяцев назад

      ​@@samelioto476no doubt but exterior insulation doesn't take up interior space, has better r value per inch, and stops wind/water. You need longer fasteners, though.

  • @eengkb
    @eengkb 7 месяцев назад

    This is how I did my upstairs. I have a house from the 1930s. So I left the original studs, insulated, then ran 1" rigid foam then built an interior wall. That let me fix the crooked as ass walls because back in the day no one used a plumb bob or a level? Then I re-ran electrical, ducts and plumbing on the inside wall, insulated and vapor barriered. I lost a bit of floor space but the rooms are rather large and it was more of an experiment to see how much a difference it would actually make.

  • @KevinL.03303
    @KevinL.03303 9 месяцев назад +4

    As a Firefighter that has battled balloon framing house fires in the past, how do you stop the chimney effect?
    I see you do have fire breaks on each 2x4 wall system, but that 3 inch gap is wide open and prone to fire extension.

  • @chriswhinery
    @chriswhinery 10 месяцев назад

    Well done.
    That's the best possible way to build super insulation.

  • @miguelviau3163
    @miguelviau3163 10 месяцев назад +4

    Did you take into consideration the modifications to the concrete foundation to accommodate the new wall structure as well as increase/ loss in square footage of 10" walls instead of 6.5" walls?

  • @billderinbaja3883
    @billderinbaja3883 Месяц назад +1

    Question: The outer stud is where sheathing is anchored and structural shear is developed. If you set the floor joists & subfloor on the inner stud, they no longer connect to the shear development of the building. Doesn't that impact your shear calcs?

  • @jimdanaher9068
    @jimdanaher9068 10 месяцев назад +5

    The second story system creates a fire chimney

    • @LogansRun314
      @LogansRun314 10 месяцев назад +2

      No it doesn't.

    • @approots
      @approots 10 месяцев назад +2

      Insulation is a fire block.

  • @nadineraynor2539
    @nadineraynor2539 8 месяцев назад +1

    How do you install a fire brake in this construction.

  • @MatthewByrd
    @MatthewByrd 11 месяцев назад +4

    You would still have structural framing outside of the insulation. Why not do insulation on the exterior of the exterior wall? That would protect your wall system and still not have thermal breaks

    • @natemartinez4595
      @natemartinez4595 11 месяцев назад +2

      I'm sure he's never thought of it. Thank God you're here 😂😂😂😂 it's a pain in the ass to insulate outside. Or you gotta run the zip r which is easy but pricey. Either way, this works too

    • @mikenotta7079
      @mikenotta7079 10 месяцев назад

      ​@@natemartinez4595Insofast is fairly cheap and a great exterior insulation system. Build smarter not harder!

  • @tigerseye73
    @tigerseye73 10 месяцев назад +1

    I saw this type of construction being used in North Dakota about 40 years ago. They get some very cold winters.