It's funny, I think most tropes in romance are inherently dull because you know exactly what the story arc will be. I know that's the appeal of the genre for a lot of people, but 'enemies to lovers' or 'friends to lovers' basically gives you the whole plot and it's rare that I've seen that done in an interesting way. I love a surprising or tragic ending, so maybe romance just isn't for me.
Re miscommunication so often the characters are written out of character just to support a miscommunication trope. They are normally better communicators until the trope events kick off
This was great! i felt the rage rising in me all the way through the video 😬 One of the most annoying trends for me is putting permanent , unremovable stickers on the cover. (I'm not sure they should be called stickers at this point) For example 'Shortlisted for the Women's Prize" or "Costa Book Awards" or the absolute worst 'Tik Tok Senstation'. Just no.
Wow I thought for sure the number one over-used, lazy, and/or irrelevant trope would be dreams. No one has dreams that solve mysteries. No one has dreams that foreshadow things to come. No one dreams in real life the way fictional characters do. It’s utter crap.
As a woman who doesn't want children and who thinks pregnancy/labor should automatically add the Horror genre to a book's description, if I even see anything about pregnancy/birth/single mother in a blurb, I am not reading it. To me, all of those topics are terrifying and high stress and I find it is almost always sugarcoated or downplayed. If a pregnancy shows up partway through a book and it is unplanned or unwanted, there's almost a 100% chance I will DNF unless abortion is actually discussed, examined, and actually chosen. But I've only read one book that has gone there. I've certainly never seen it properly shown in TV/film. As a woman who would never become a mother under no circumstances and who considers birthing a child my worst nightmare, I'm tired of women who did not want kids just shrugging and going along with it as if we didn't actually know what we wanted. Also as soon as I clicked this video, I was thinking of those damn stepback covers because WHO LIKES THOSE??!
I really hope idea that pregnancy and labour should have a “horror” tag was a joke, because that is terribly stigmatizing of a natural process of human life. It’s fine that you don’t like reading about it but, yikes.
@jacforswear18 Not really a joke, more that I genuinely find the topic of giving birth horrifying. I obviously don't think it should be labeled Horror for everyone - but it is for me. Just because it's natural doesn't mean I'm stigmatizing it by saying it's horrifiying. Nature is hardcore as fuck. Giving birth is incredible agony at best and death at worst. It's not a walk in the park. I think the biggest reason I dislike reading it is because too many write it like it's so easy breezy; it leaves a sour taste in my mouth because it cheapens how fucking metal mothers truly are.
My most hated trope is probably the antagonist that has a legitimate point or good goal, but is unnecessarily evil in achieving or implementing that goal. It makes it so the protagonist doesnt have to actually engage with or refute the point, because the person saying it is a monster. In a similar vein, I really dislike when a conflict is set up between two characters of opposing mindsets or ideologies, and at at the last minute instead of having the two sides come to a conflict, they instead are forced to work together against this *new third threat* that wasn't properly set up. Another excuse to not have to acutally write out interesting conflict resolution imo.
I really don’t see many characters with disabilities and the way Kaz is potrayed is so amazing to me. I have a great respect for Bardugo when it comes to this. There's a thought process that really speaks how I think about my chronic pain daily, and it is calculating every route I will take, how long and how hard it will be. Having a character who is disabled and still kicks ass, that’s really refreshing to see. Personally it makes me feel less miserable about myself.
And I'll continue to preach that you don't need to have kids. It's better to not have kids and regret it rather than have them and regret it then. So many parents shouldn't have kids and I bet they had them only because they thought they should. Suddenly they make it everyones problem when someone openly is happy without children. I know I will never have them. I don’t particularly like them, pregnancies scare the shit out of me and also I'm one of the asexuals who hate the idea of sex so...I'll let my brother continue the bloodline since he's actually good with kids and wants them in the future.
For me, not sure if this counts as a trope, but I'm getting tired of reading stories that go back in time: someone in the modern day vs someone a generation or two back. Sometimes it is done through the modern day character discovering about their relatives through a diary or journeying back to the country their family has come from. A good story and good characters should be able to hold their own and not need that structure to hang on to. It's just in so many novels, I'm beginning to get bored of it. Now, I'm trying to avoid it. But yes, the stepped back covers, I despise them, glad it's not just me! 😂
And with the motherhood and pregnancy thing- it's also okay to be a mother/pregnant and it not be the central point of the woman! I'm a mother, but I hate it when books (and people in real life ) make that a woman's only identifying feature. I'm my own whole person, and being a mother is only part of who I am. It's okay, and healthy, that my identity does not revolve around my children. They are their own people too and should be allowed to exist outside of me.
Yes - this is one I detest. Mainly because one story is always more interesting than the other one (usually the historical narrative because that is what the author wanted to write anyway before some publisher told them they need a character in present day so that readers can relate to them). People are people no matter what timeframe the story takes place.
My greatest annoyance in literature is when somebody is found dead and a body part is at ‘An Unnatural Angle’. I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve read this.
When a character who is poor but good hearted befriends an old grumpy person and then that old person dies, but they were secretly rich and have no family, so they leave everything to the good hearted poor person who can now solve all their problems with the money.
Someone in this video made a great point about disability being synonymous with villainy. But it also made me think of how incredible Joe Abercrombie is. If anyone has read Abercrombie, they'll know maybe (imo) the best character in fiction - Glokta, the inquisitorial torturer. Glokta first seems just like an immoral scumbag but we grow to like and respect him as we learn more, to the point where we can't in all conscience call him a villain. He's so fascinating and makes you entirely question the trope.
The type of miscommunication plots I hate the most are when one character knows or should know that the second character misunderstood them and they don’t say anything to resolve it! There’s usually a pause between the second character getting mad or yelling their feelings, then the two characters just stare at each other and second character just walks away. Why doesn’t the first character run after them and explain?? I see this in tv so often
If anyone wants to learn more about the "bad guy being disfigured" trope, check out "disfigured: on fairy tales, disability and making space" by Amanda leduc. It's a non-fiction book that delves into that trope incredibly
Please can anyone give me recs about traumatic and damaged relationship between mothers and daughters? Especially where the mother is a narcissistic person
17:28 Half the time the monster wasn't doing anything wrong, or if it did, was because it didn't understand that it was wrong. Like the film Troll. That sort of thing pissed me off. I know humans are the bad guys in movies, but this one takes the biscuit. I am not sure if you saw that one on Netflix, but that did hurt. Humans wake up a troll, it goes to have a drink and goes back to sleep, but instead of it leaving it alone, the military harass and pester the thing because they ''fear it'''. The Troll just moves through the place to try and get away until it gets caught up in a trap and gets scared, it reacts, and the military just launch hell until the city is a wreck. The sunrise destroys the Troll and then everyone is full of regrets. That film pissed me off a lot.
For me the big ick in pregnancy plots within romance is that it is nearly always unplanned. I especially don't like it in M/M romance bc OMG, that's where this should be 100% not a factor*!!! BUT I have appreciated plotlines where the MCs just end up having to take care of a kid that they found or that someone dumped on them or whatever - that can be quite cute. *Unless one character is trans, I guess, but that's not usually how these M-preg situations happen! Maybe the difference is that it feels more like a choice - like you COULD have just passed this kid to an orphanage or something, you just chose not to - and it doesn't have any of the inherent physical risk/body horror of pregnancy. I feel like I could also appreciate a romance where the MC gets pregnant accidentally and isn't into it, and their partner is supportive of them having an abortion. That would be a "get you a man..." moment for me right there! - but I can't think of any book or movie that does that.
Pregnancy can be beautiful, but also it can be devastatingly, traumatically hard. Childbirth and being a new parent is traumatic and world changing. I do get sick of pregnancy always being portrayed in the same way - morning sickness, dizziness, moaning about feeling ‘like a whale’ etc…but never talking about the less known, but just as present other symptoms and experiences. Also women being genuinely scared of pregnancy and birth is valid. Yet we’re told, “it’s natural” and such…basically minimising what pregnant and labouring people experience. I wish there were more books which realistically portray pregnancy/birth/motherhood. As a mother, as a tokophobic, as someone who experienced birth trauma and ptsd, representation would feel so beautiful and amazing. Also, from a feminist perspective I think it is vital.
I agree. I find it annoying that the only popular books that seem to dig into the other parts of pregnancy and birthing are horror novels. I completely understand the reason people write those books, but I think it just further stigmatizes non-magical pregnancy and birth stories by nature of being the ONLY alternative to the magical pregnancy stories.
I like miscommunication tropes , of course when done well - like the one in Normal People. People dont communicate well, expecially in certain Asian cultures. But of course in some books its very contrived.
I only own one book with a step-back cover and that's House of Leaves and I actually think that for that book specifically it was a very smart move to make considering the entire plot is "the inside is bigger than the outside" and it got a little giggle out of me when I realized that even holding the book, the contents of the book were technically bigger than even the front cover. I think that was a very fun smart use of it but in other cases.... if they're not actually utilizing it for any good reason (which, quotes are not) then I don't see the reason why
On the properties of physical books: deckled edges have got to go. If you have old, clumsy fingers, deckled edges make it far harder to turn the pages one at a time. I never yet met a book in which deckled edges didn't make the reading experience just a little bit worse.
I feel validated because nothing made me want to skip ahead in books more that miscommunication and I genuinely figured that was just me and my feelings
RE: enemies to lovers I actually enjoy this one, but I am annoyed at some of the books that are considered within it. Disliking someone a little bit doesn’t make them your enemy. Where are the stakes? Make their rivalry believable. The girl that was rude to you 5 years ago isn’t your enemy! 😂
I hate the pregnancy thing too, I dont wanna get pregnant, it scares the living hell out of me and i cant be a mother, i struggle way too much with all my health stuff and being neurodivergent and I hate kids (which does not mean i am shitty to them or wanna hurt them, i just dont wanna be around them) other than my niece, who I would do anything for, because shes my family and i am keeping my eyes on her to make sure she doesnt struggle with the same things i do. im really glad my partner and I are on the same page with this and live to just have each other and some fur babies ❤ also the "love triangle" thing with a second love interest also fucking annoys me, either go full poly or dont do it at all 😅 same for miscommunication, so sick of it, just talk please, its not that hard xD
The house of leaves had his cover shorter than the book. But the house is also bigger inside so.... I love that it is thematic! For the ennemy to lover, call me childish but i really love this trop in Megamind (the big bad blue who fell in love with the journalist). I find it more healthy than a lot of romance. And they do communicate!
Valid points all around. Especially about pregnancy and motherhood. Btw, did you know that in Russia (where I live) there are rumors of fining women who don't have (but can physically have) kids by 35?! And I've no doubt it will become a reality at some point. Does anyone still have an illusion that that's a democratic country where people decide anything? Jeez...
I hate stepped back covers. It's like they're designed to catch, bend and tear when you're trying to shelve them. I don't think that publishers actually give any fucks what we the consumers actually prefer. I am baffled by their decisions.
You're my favorite book-related RUclipsr. I really enjoy your book-review-adjacent videos like this one. Really interesting episode! I agree with so many of these!
What brilliant patrons you have! I'm new to your Patreon and see I have a lot of growing up to do! My trope was very thinly described (trite romance) and your people put flesh on those bones with all the ways they explained why that trope is so unsatisfying. Yay patrons!💜🎉💜
I'm not a romance reader mainly because of the miscommunication & endless pondering of what the potential partner is thinking. (Well maybe if you asked them you'd know!) I'm a thriller, suspense & contemporary fiction girl. In thrillers I HATE when the antagonist is someone you know throughout the book but they've been going by their middle name or a different name now. (Bob is really John blah blah). I'm over the trend of romance novels having illustrated cartoon character covers. I'm also over women's historical fiction covers showing women's backs walking away from the reader. Bonus if they're in pastel, wool coats. Lastly, as an American we are fed up with our book covers having stickers on them! It ruins the book unless you can carefully peal them off. Great video Willow! Thanks for the discussion & permission to rant.❤
The current step backs I agree with. But what about 80s horror stepbacks with creepy images? (think: V.C. Andrews). Bring those back! I'm surprised how often the miscommunication trope is used since most readers seem to be on the same page with disliking it. I love reading mother/pregnancy based horror. It really encapsulates the bizarre feelings one can have while being pregnant, and the dark thoughts many of us have from time to time.
I saw Leigh Bardugo speak last week, and she was brilliant and funny! I love that she does representation so well. Her new book The Familiar is based on her own family history, and she said that she is writing a horror novella! So excited for that!
I agree for sure about bad enemies-to-lovers tropes. I think what I almost want from enemies-to-lovers is like... Yeah, Pride and Pejudice is a good example because I kind of want enemies to livers to be based in larger social issues that are much bigger than the characters and a fundamental misunderstanding about the other person's world that they gradually discover more about. Not like... bigotry and bullying-- but like ... lateral aggression maybe? Or else maybe one has more power in society but just over and over proves themself Trustworthy and Loving despite the other's trauma and distrust based off of the lessons they learned in horrible circumstances.
I think actually The House on The Cerulean Sea is an example of this that I'm describing. Someone proves themselves flexible in their worldview to protect t what really matters: found family and love, being in solidarity with marginalized people, and standing up against bigotry... and then Someone else is given a chance to heal from a heart-rending betrayal and trauma.
Personally I'm really getting tired of the multiple switching narrators thing. It felt fresh at first in officially published boosk (as it reminded me of fanfics a lot) but now it's getting a bit stale. I still like it when it's neccessary for the point the author wants to make, but often it seems like lazy writing.
Regarding costs of books, I love middle grade, but one thing that pushes me to purchase more middle grade is that they tend to be cheaper - at least on Amazon which is where I have to purchase most of my books. 6--12 pounds/euros is a great deal when the latest hardback release by an adult author can go for much more. Speaking of middle grade, if you have read any that you love, considering good reads failed to highlight that or graphic novels, ... I'm hearing you say you hate kids. lol. I hate kids too. But if you like any children's stories or middle grade books, would love to hear you talk about them one day.
Hi, I just happened upon your channel because I'm preparing a video reacting to fantasy tropes. I didn't know those weird covers had a name! I don't like them either :P I don't know who thought it was a good idea. I was avoiding getting House of the Cerulean Sea for the longest time because the only paperback version was the step-back cover. Eventually, I gave up and got the step-back cover :/ Also, those were some interesting tropes mentioned. The miscommunication one is such a pet peeve for me, so I wrote a story about the characters all realizing they were miscommunicating. By chapter four, they have a super open conversation about it, and the rest of the story is how they fix everything and then move forward to save the kingdom. While I do agree the enemies to lovers can be problematic, I think a version of it is okay meaning, frenemies to lovers. But it can't be toxic frenemies though. They have to be the bickering, friendly rivalry type. What do you think about those?
Ngl I hate that there’s so little good romance books. I love reading romance but the only good ones I’ve found are not marked as romance and are side plots or are historical. It’s just sad because the majority portray toxic relationships and try to play that as sexy and or are incredibly misogynistic despite typically being written for women. I would just love to read a well written good romance that isn’t historical or Austen.
All these complaints are just full on projection. I actually find miscommunication very human. It doesn’t have to be a major thing but little miscommunication happens a lot in every day life. It’s realism.
I find enemies to lovers very hit or miss and usually it's miss when it isn't fantasy. In contemporary romance books it seems to just be "we met and got off on the wrong foot so now we are Enemies" and like girl calm down. That's not an enemy that's someone being really over-the-top with a mild grudge, which is not compelling to read and there's usually no good reason for them to hold onto it. In historical fiction there's often much better reasons to actually be enemies, and it sort of overlaps with fantasy here in that respect, but the critical difference is that in historical fiction people who are enemies are often going to be tied to explicit real-world prejudices so we get stories about like Nazis falling in love with Jewish people and like no. just no. withcindy recently did a video about this sort of thing, though focussing more on contemporary romance with racists falling for someone of a racial minority. In fantasy it's then about like two people from opposing kingdoms falling in love, or people from one group who hates another group or for interpersonal reasons but the stakes are much higher than office politics because there's a global war going on, but it's not a direct and intentional parallel to racism or homophobia or something, it's just made up. So the "enemies" part is real and justified and there's a plausible reason to have them struggle with their attraction and to overcome prejudices or whatever the situation might call for, but it's not laced with problematic real-world parallels. (Usually.)
Agreed with the dislike of all these tropes and trends a surprise because i thought I was pretty open to all kinds of fiction or at least willing to give things a try shows we can all be less tolerant than we think.
today i learned that was called a step back cover and boy do i hate them lol. Mainly for your first reason of them just being annoying to hold. I would also add deckled edges to that. God there irritating to leaf though. Kinda funny story. I once brough a copy of Homers Iliad from waterstones online that had deckled edges. At the times i didn't know what deckled edges were and this was my first interaction with them. I genuinely just thought it was a uncut book that got though quality control. I sent it back and ask for a replacement 3 times lol. At no point did someone just say "errr that's how its meant to be, its called deckled edges". I even sent photos the last time i sent it back and still no one told me lol. Was about a year later that i learned about it and was like OH lol. woops.
My number one trope I despise is really common in south african literary fiction written by men, but it is childlessness and infertility specifically being tied to a lack of femininity and character flaws. Two of the books we read in high school had it! In the 2010s! My English teachers were women! In a way I'm thankful, this was before I had started to properly educate myself on race, but it was something I cared about, and I made the call that if these white male authors are portraying white women this derogatorily, I can't trust the messaging of the books around their central discussion on "racial dynamics" (load of absolute reverse racism bullshit).
The Pregnancy/Baby Trope. I know it can't be helped as it is unplanned and accidental, but I don't get how it can be sexy or romantic when it just changes a person, they go through hell and back and struggle with everything before and after, faces life time changes, long nights, ton of issues and sometimes it can be fatal. People already gone through with trauma of loosing something special to them, they don't need to be reminded about something they never had. Being barfed on, dealing with smelly diapers, being peed on, sleepless nights, debts, and lifechanging conditions and emotional stress is not sexy or romantic. It is serious stuff and not fun.
I will say I personally greatly enjoy a well done miscommunication in a story if it makes sense for the characters involved and/or is making commentary on how people’s own flaws can cause them to misunderstand even the people they love the most. I personally can’t relate a ton to the idea that people communicate better in real life then they do fiction. And I say so as a person that has made a huge amount of effort over the years trying to improve my communication with loved ones & in turn my relationships with them. But a painful thing I’ve had to learn from this endeavor is many people once they’ve developed a certain perspective on who they think you are (some understandable, others more to do with their own flaws like insecurity or even bigotry) will likely not see your efforts in any other lens unless they consciously make that choice themselves. And so many people just don’t want to do that for many reasons. 🙁
A lot of these tropes might have started from good places but they've been used as a means for continuing abuse and toxicity in fictional relationships (and they feed into each other, enemies to lovers is often paired with love triangles and less often an eventual pregnancy), I obviously haven't done a lot of research but tropes used to be more nuanced and less plot-driving.
I hate miscommunication so much because so often it just seems like a way to extend the plot, but then I have to realize that my favourite shows rely on this trope and that is wild lol I even love it in them. For context, I love OFMD and Good Omens, both of whom have revolving relationship conflicts around miscommunication. But they do it, in my opinion, well. GO miscommunication makes sense because it is a result of systemic lay induced trauma and oppression and, on a smaller scale, the same goes for OFMD, though more so leaning into gender rather than queerness in relation to the systems of oppression that are prominent. GO is also enemies to lovers, but again it is done well because it is related to the same things leading to miscommunication and honestly isn’t a long process outside of that, being actual enemies for around a minute. Anyway, I just find it entertaining that I love works that follows tropes I usually get so annoyed by. Part of that is also because they, specifically OFMD, tend to play on and make fun of tropes possibly? Sorry to rant, have a great day y’all!
I couldn't think of a trope when you asked but as soon as pregnancy got mentioned it reminded me of the worst part of romanticising pregnancy trope. When a woman sacrifices herself so the baby can be born. Why,? She's dead, the baby is left without a mum and dad has to figure out being a single parent. Having seen the negative consequences of this play out in real life when I was younger I would really like this trope to die
I might be in the minority here, but I quite like step back covers. I didn't know they cost more to produce so that's made me not like them as much anymore but I think it's fairly subjective whether they're ugly or not
Alright y’all my hot take, unaliving on this hill: Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is the best love triangle in young adult fiction. True love triangle, warm fuzzies in an otherwise violent book, truly iconic
About the age gap thing, since few weeks we have "Consentement" in cinemas, it's an adaptation of book telling the real story of Vanessa Springora and her "relationship" with Gabriel Metzneff, she was I think 14 at the time it started. I was shocked how prominent figure he was back in those days while being quite public with being a pedophile.
I actually really love the stepback cover 😅 I'm definitely in the minority 😂 but I do wish they had a quote from the book instead of something like 'NY times bestseller' 😕
i disagree with a lot of these lol. great video tho! I think romance being out of step with the plot is boring, i want the romance to be woven into the plot and be affected by the plot in a way thats not only happy ending focused. thats why enemies to lovers is so boring because its all about the tete a tete of getting together when i believe its more interesting to see established relationships struggle with their love and personal beliefs in relation to the plot. also i dont think twilight is inherently sexist, no more than most books. Its about a woman getting what she wants. bella wanted edward, she wanted to be a vampire. It may be sinful and deadly but she still gets what she wants and lives happily. sure its mormon and has all that baggage. but its a fantasy of fulfilled desire and another one cause im a contrarian. Im actually sick of reading stories about women and daughters hating eachother. I dont see any stories really where mothers and daughters work together, yes have complicated relationships, but still want the best for each other. less pitting women against eachother. motherthing doesn't do this either its about the pressures of motherhood, the mundanity and the misogyny that goes into it
One of my problems with Last Jedi, apart for being incredibly boring, was that Raylo thing. The guy kills of the guy you bonded as a surrogate father, tortures you, there is nothing more screaming evil than trying to commit a genocide and they decided this is a material for a romance plot? I want to understand the tought process behind it. I don't like romance in general, I don't mind a romantic subplot but I don't want it to take over the story. I personally find the trend of romantisising toxic relationships in YA books disturbing.
Also when it comes to the pregnancy trope is that suddenly the badass MC can't contribute to anything because she's viewed as vulnerable and a fragile piece of glass which I think is...not a good view of pregnant women. Also I agree that it is too romantised and sometimes written as a fetish which is even more disturbing.
I agree with miscommunication. I don't get it at all. You wasted all those words and pages that could have been solved in 5 minutes. Heck, films do it too. Home Alone remake comes to mind.d
Love your first two points. I haven't encountered many of the others to a memorable degree....although I do really like Strange Weather in Tokyo which has a big age gap between the two people in the relationship. I don't see that book as problematic at all.
The trend - If it even is one , as maybe I’m just noticing more- that annoys me = authors’ names as big as or bigger than the title; perhaps I’m petty , but that just seems tacky to me
My partner had never hear of Ann Patchett. One day we were in a bookshop and saw a copy of Tom Lake, and my partner (totally reasonably) asked who the author was - Ann or Tom? lol
Ew, I got a transphobic ad after this ended. 🤢 Anyway I had fun watching this. I recently read and enjoyed a queer horror novella called Vicarious by Chloe Spencer and it kind of does the enemies-to-lovers thing, but it was done better than in most romance novels imo. Also I was sort of nervous about mentioning the pregnancy trope because many readers love it, but I'm glad I did :)
A transphobic ad?? Wtf?? I’m really glad you had the confidence to mention that trope because it got me to talk about it in my own words too and how I also hate it :)
@@WillowTalksBooks I regularly get these sort of ads when I watch my fave booktubers. It is either for books or documentaries. I report all the time, but I guess they target my location and age. Annoying.
I really dislike jealousy as a sign the love interest is falling for the heroine. Consuming jealous is not romantic, it is a red flag! Also, miscarriage after the pregnancy has moved the plot along but dealing with an infant would be inconvenient. Miscarriages do happen but rarely at a story arc appropriate point in life.
I get the pregnancy to a certain extent. As someone who does not necessarily want to be pregnant, I find the sugary nature of pregnancy in books (and film) off putting, especially when we live in a world where reproductive rights are non-existent or in jeopardy in so many parts of the world. But at the same time I hate the fact that the ONLY popular alternatives to sugary stories about pregnancy are pregnancy loss OR horror novels, because they just further stigmatize both motherhood AND chosen child free lifestyles at the same time. If you aren’t having a happy pregnancy/birthing/mothering moment then you are either grieving or in a demonic/body horror situation? It all feels very limiting (even though I think the horror genre of pregnancy has its own nuance- big picture of “pregnancy literature” as a whole, it removes nuance having the dichotomy). I would also fundamentally disagree that disliking children wholesale is “normal” or should be normalized. Children are people and I don’t think it’s acceptable to dislike them based on their age, it’s not their fault they are young. It’s no different that disliking any other group of people wholesale imo 🤷🏾♀️
I agree, I know that people feel pigeon-holed into having to be a parent and they shouldn’t feel that way but I disagree with “I don’t like kids” being acceptable because kids are people too just as you said. Of course I know what people mean by saying they don’t like kids but it’s still pretty unfair.
@@Toribell1928for sure! NO ONE should feel like they need to have children if they don’t want them (it’s horribly unfair to everyone involved). I fully support all people not having kids if they aren’t 100% into the idea of parenting. But it would be blatantly unacceptable to say you blankety don’t like any other group of people, and it certainly hasn’t been a good thing when disliking other groups of people has been “normalized.”
I always have to try and stop myself from commenting before the end of the video (and usually fail lol) but the pregnancy trope!! This! Pregnancy has been my longest recurring literal nightmare and it makes me feel repulsed a lot of the times it shows up in fiction, partially because of my own feelings about it, but also because it just ... changes the person entirely. (Kind of like two characters falling in love and then suddenly not being able to do anything without each other, or they stop 'existing' outside of the presence of the other, etc.) I loved _Nightbitch_ exactly because of how it confronts the societal views of motherhood and individuality, despite me never, ever wanting to carry a baby myself. She tried so hard to be the _idea_ of Supermom, and it wasn't until she became fed up and disillusioned with it and started acting more like herself - a night bitch - that her own relationship with motherhood changed drastically for the positive, her relationships with her kid and husband changed for the positive, even though it did not fit the societal image of a 'good mom'. She rediscovered her flame for art, and in the end, it's so obvious that she considers her greatest artistic creation to be her son, motherhood itself, as she finally nurtures the very roots of who _she_ is. I think about this book way too much even though I've no intention of ever being a parent myself. 😅
One trend I REALLY wish would go away? Colleen Hoover. Or anyone else who gets successful solely from being popular on Tik Tok, rather than creative merit and writing skills. My two cents.
It's funny, I think most tropes in romance are inherently dull because you know exactly what the story arc will be. I know that's the appeal of the genre for a lot of people, but 'enemies to lovers' or 'friends to lovers' basically gives you the whole plot and it's rare that I've seen that done in an interesting way. I love a surprising or tragic ending, so maybe romance just isn't for me.
Re miscommunication so often the characters are written out of character just to support a miscommunication trope. They are normally better communicators until the trope events kick off
This was great! i felt the rage rising in me all the way through the video 😬
One of the most annoying trends for me is putting permanent , unremovable stickers on the cover. (I'm not sure they should be called stickers at this point) For example 'Shortlisted for the Women's Prize" or "Costa Book Awards" or the absolute worst 'Tik Tok Senstation'. Just no.
Yes! And the supposedly removable ones that are nearly impossible to peel off and that leave residue behind.
right on I even bought some goo stuff from amazon that's supposed to get stickers off but it didn't work⚛😀
I have copies of All the Light We Cannot See and I'm Thinking of Ending Things with big ugly 'coming to Netflix' stickers printed on.
Wow I thought for sure the number one over-used, lazy, and/or irrelevant trope would be dreams. No one has dreams that solve mysteries. No one has dreams that foreshadow things to come. No one dreams in real life the way fictional characters do. It’s utter crap.
Oh god, that’s a good one! Dream sequences are so overdone and boring. Especially in fantasy
As a woman who doesn't want children and who thinks pregnancy/labor should automatically add the Horror genre to a book's description, if I even see anything about pregnancy/birth/single mother in a blurb, I am not reading it. To me, all of those topics are terrifying and high stress and I find it is almost always sugarcoated or downplayed.
If a pregnancy shows up partway through a book and it is unplanned or unwanted, there's almost a 100% chance I will DNF unless abortion is actually discussed, examined, and actually chosen. But I've only read one book that has gone there. I've certainly never seen it properly shown in TV/film.
As a woman who would never become a mother under no circumstances and who considers birthing a child my worst nightmare, I'm tired of women who did not want kids just shrugging and going along with it as if we didn't actually know what we wanted.
Also as soon as I clicked this video, I was thinking of those damn stepback covers because WHO LIKES THOSE??!
I really hope idea that pregnancy and labour should have a “horror” tag was a joke, because that is terribly stigmatizing of a natural process of human life. It’s fine that you don’t like reading about it but, yikes.
@jacforswear18 Not really a joke, more that I genuinely find the topic of giving birth horrifying. I obviously don't think it should be labeled Horror for everyone - but it is for me. Just because it's natural doesn't mean I'm stigmatizing it by saying it's horrifiying. Nature is hardcore as fuck. Giving birth is incredible agony at best and death at worst. It's not a walk in the park. I think the biggest reason I dislike reading it is because too many write it like it's so easy breezy; it leaves a sour taste in my mouth because it cheapens how fucking metal mothers truly are.
@@jacforswear18I don’t think they were 100% being serious
My most hated trope is probably the antagonist that has a legitimate point or good goal, but is unnecessarily evil in achieving or implementing that goal. It makes it so the protagonist doesnt have to actually engage with or refute the point, because the person saying it is a monster.
In a similar vein, I really dislike when a conflict is set up between two characters of opposing mindsets or ideologies, and at at the last minute instead of having the two sides come to a conflict, they instead are forced to work together against this *new third threat* that wasn't properly set up. Another excuse to not have to acutally write out interesting conflict resolution imo.
I really don’t see many characters with disabilities and the way Kaz is potrayed is so amazing to me. I have a great respect for Bardugo when it comes to this.
There's a thought process that really speaks how I think about my chronic pain daily, and it is calculating every route I will take, how long and how hard it will be.
Having a character who is disabled and still kicks ass, that’s really refreshing to see. Personally it makes me feel less miserable about myself.
I loved Kaz for this too 🖤
coming from japan where every book costs around 4-5$, coming to a country where 20+€ is the norm i just really wanna go back lol
And I'll continue to preach that you don't need to have kids. It's better to not have kids and regret it rather than have them and regret it then. So many parents shouldn't have kids and I bet they had them only because they thought they should.
Suddenly they make it everyones problem when someone openly is happy without children.
I know I will never have them. I don’t particularly like them, pregnancies scare the shit out of me and also I'm one of the asexuals who hate the idea of sex so...I'll let my brother continue the bloodline since he's actually good with kids and wants them in the future.
Interesting topic. My peeve is people over 50 being portrayed as ancient. Hardly!
For me, not sure if this counts as a trope, but I'm getting tired of reading stories that go back in time: someone in the modern day vs someone a generation or two back. Sometimes it is done through the modern day character discovering about their relatives through a diary or journeying back to the country their family has come from. A good story and good characters should be able to hold their own and not need that structure to hang on to. It's just in so many novels, I'm beginning to get bored of it. Now, I'm trying to avoid it.
But yes, the stepped back covers, I despise them, glad it's not just me! 😂
And with the motherhood and pregnancy thing- it's also okay to be a mother/pregnant and it not be the central point of the woman! I'm a mother, but I hate it when books (and people in real life ) make that a woman's only identifying feature. I'm my own whole person, and being a mother is only part of who I am. It's okay, and healthy, that my identity does not revolve around my children. They are their own people too and should be allowed to exist outside of me.
Very well-put!
I’m actually getting sick of that, too! I’ve read way too many books like that recently
Yes - this is one I detest. Mainly because one story is always more interesting than the other one (usually the historical narrative because that is what the author wanted to write anyway before some publisher told them they need a character in present day so that readers can relate to them). People are people no matter what timeframe the story takes place.
My greatest annoyance in literature is when somebody is found dead and a body part is at ‘An Unnatural Angle’.
I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve read this.
When a character who is poor but good hearted befriends an old grumpy person and then that old person dies, but they were secretly rich and have no family, so they leave everything to the good hearted poor person who can now solve all their problems with the money.
Someone in this video made a great point about disability being synonymous with villainy. But it also made me think of how incredible Joe Abercrombie is.
If anyone has read Abercrombie, they'll know maybe (imo) the best character in fiction - Glokta, the inquisitorial torturer. Glokta first seems just like an immoral scumbag but we grow to like and respect him as we learn more, to the point where we can't in all conscience call him a villain. He's so fascinating and makes you entirely question the trope.
If you hate disability/disfigurement=villany, read Disfigured by Amanda Leduc! Great analysis of the trope, written by a disabled author.
U got me at ''I don't want kids, ever''.
The type of miscommunication plots I hate the most are when one character knows or should know that the second character misunderstood them and they don’t say anything to resolve it! There’s usually a pause between the second character getting mad or yelling their feelings, then the two characters just stare at each other and second character just walks away. Why doesn’t the first character run after them and explain?? I see this in tv so often
Fine line between an old chestnut and a worn out trope. Always
have time to watch a video about the subject.
If anyone wants to learn more about the "bad guy being disfigured" trope, check out "disfigured: on fairy tales, disability and making space" by Amanda leduc. It's a non-fiction book that delves into that trope incredibly
Yes! I also like how Jan Campbell discusses it in her older videos (here on RUclips).
'It's not healthy babe. You don't need that guy, you need therapy"😂 So true. I've thought this many times in bad romance movies.
Please can anyone give me recs about traumatic and damaged relationship between mothers and daughters? Especially where the mother is a narcissistic person
fun video! zadie smith's the fraud has an interesting love triangle that is geometrically accurate 🙃
17:28 Half the time the monster wasn't doing anything wrong, or if it did, was because it didn't understand that it was wrong. Like the film Troll. That sort of thing pissed me off. I know humans are the bad guys in movies, but this one takes the biscuit. I am not sure if you saw that one on Netflix, but that did hurt. Humans wake up a troll, it goes to have a drink and goes back to sleep, but instead of it leaving it alone, the military harass and pester the thing because they ''fear it'''. The Troll just moves through the place to try and get away until it gets caught up in a trap and gets scared, it reacts, and the military just launch hell until the city is a wreck. The sunrise destroys the Troll and then everyone is full of regrets. That film pissed me off a lot.
For me the big ick in pregnancy plots within romance is that it is nearly always unplanned. I especially don't like it in M/M romance bc OMG, that's where this should be 100% not a factor*!!! BUT I have appreciated plotlines where the MCs just end up having to take care of a kid that they found or that someone dumped on them or whatever - that can be quite cute.
*Unless one character is trans, I guess, but that's not usually how these M-preg situations happen!
Maybe the difference is that it feels more like a choice - like you COULD have just passed this kid to an orphanage or something, you just chose not to - and it doesn't have any of the inherent physical risk/body horror of pregnancy.
I feel like I could also appreciate a romance where the MC gets pregnant accidentally and isn't into it, and their partner is supportive of them having an abortion. That would be a "get you a man..." moment for me right there! - but I can't think of any book or movie that does that.
Pregnancy can be beautiful, but also it can be devastatingly, traumatically hard. Childbirth and being a new parent is traumatic and world changing. I do get sick of pregnancy always being portrayed in the same way - morning sickness, dizziness, moaning about feeling ‘like a whale’ etc…but never talking about the less known, but just as present other symptoms and experiences. Also women being genuinely scared of pregnancy and birth is valid. Yet we’re told, “it’s natural” and such…basically minimising what pregnant and labouring people experience. I wish there were more books which realistically portray pregnancy/birth/motherhood. As a mother, as a tokophobic, as someone who experienced birth trauma and ptsd, representation would feel so beautiful and amazing. Also, from a feminist perspective I think it is vital.
I agree. I find it annoying that the only popular books that seem to dig into the other parts of pregnancy and birthing are horror novels. I completely understand the reason people write those books, but I think it just further stigmatizes non-magical pregnancy and birth stories by nature of being the ONLY alternative to the magical pregnancy stories.
I like miscommunication tropes , of course when done well - like the one in Normal People. People dont communicate well, expecially in certain Asian cultures. But of course in some books its very contrived.
Normal People is actually a great example of it done well. It’s intrinsic to the topic of class divides. Good point
I only own one book with a step-back cover and that's House of Leaves and I actually think that for that book specifically it was a very smart move to make considering the entire plot is "the inside is bigger than the outside" and it got a little giggle out of me when I realized that even holding the book, the contents of the book were technically bigger than even the front cover. I think that was a very fun smart use of it but in other cases.... if they're not actually utilizing it for any good reason (which, quotes are not) then I don't see the reason why
On the properties of physical books: deckled edges have got to go. If you have old, clumsy fingers, deckled edges make it far harder to turn the pages one at a time. I never yet met a book in which deckled edges didn't make the reading experience just a little bit worse.
Can’t trust someone who likes deckled edges. You just know they’ve got some skeletons in their closet
@BooksandBao I'll see myself out 🙈😅
I absolutely agree, enemies to lovers is overdone in the romance world. Another reason why I'm not a fan of romance.
I feel validated because nothing made me want to skip ahead in books more that miscommunication and I genuinely figured that was just me and my feelings
RE: enemies to lovers
I actually enjoy this one, but I am annoyed at some of the books that are considered within it. Disliking someone a little bit doesn’t make them your enemy. Where are the stakes? Make their rivalry believable. The girl that was rude to you 5 years ago isn’t your enemy! 😂
I hate the pregnancy thing too, I dont wanna get pregnant, it scares the living hell out of me and i cant be a mother, i struggle way too much with all my health stuff and being neurodivergent and I hate kids (which does not mean i am shitty to them or wanna hurt them, i just dont wanna be around them) other than my niece, who I would do anything for, because shes my family and i am keeping my eyes on her to make sure she doesnt struggle with the same things i do.
im really glad my partner and I are on the same page with this and live to just have each other and some fur babies ❤
also the "love triangle" thing with a second love interest also fucking annoys me, either go full poly or dont do it at all 😅
same for miscommunication, so sick of it, just talk please, its not that hard xD
The house of leaves had his cover shorter than the book. But the house is also bigger inside so.... I love that it is thematic!
For the ennemy to lover, call me childish but i really love this trop in Megamind (the big bad blue who fell in love with the journalist). I find it more healthy than a lot of romance. And they do communicate!
Valid points all around. Especially about pregnancy and motherhood. Btw, did you know that in Russia (where I live) there are rumors of fining women who don't have (but can physically have) kids by 35?! And I've no doubt it will become a reality at some point. Does anyone still have an illusion that that's a democratic country where people decide anything? Jeez...
I hate stepped back covers. It's like they're designed to catch, bend and tear when you're trying to shelve them. I don't think that publishers actually give any fucks what we the consumers actually prefer. I am baffled by their decisions.
You're my favorite book-related RUclipsr.
I really enjoy your book-review-adjacent videos like this one. Really interesting episode!
I agree with so many of these!
What brilliant patrons you have! I'm new to your Patreon and see I have a lot of growing up to do! My trope was very thinly described (trite romance) and your people put flesh on those bones with all the ways they explained why that trope is so unsatisfying. Yay patrons!💜🎉💜
I'm not a romance reader mainly because of the miscommunication & endless pondering of what the potential partner is thinking. (Well maybe if you asked them you'd know!) I'm a thriller, suspense & contemporary fiction girl. In thrillers I HATE when the antagonist is someone you know throughout the book but they've been going by their middle name or a different name now. (Bob is really John blah blah). I'm over the trend of romance novels having illustrated cartoon character covers. I'm also over women's historical fiction covers showing women's backs walking away from the reader. Bonus if they're in pastel, wool coats. Lastly, as an American we are fed up with our book covers having stickers on them! It ruins the book unless you can carefully peal them off. Great video Willow! Thanks for the discussion & permission to rant.❤
The current step backs I agree with. But what about 80s horror stepbacks with creepy images? (think: V.C. Andrews). Bring those back!
I'm surprised how often the miscommunication trope is used since most readers seem to be on the same page with disliking it.
I love reading mother/pregnancy based horror. It really encapsulates the bizarre feelings one can have while being pregnant, and the dark thoughts many of us have from time to time.
I saw Leigh Bardugo speak last week, and she was brilliant and funny! I love that she does representation so well. Her new book The Familiar is based on her own family history, and she said that she is writing a horror novella! So excited for that!
I can’t explain it but I love miscommunication in a cheesy Hallmark Christmas movie. Put that in a book and I think it’s stupid.
I hate stepback covers.
Also, the many tropes that use disability as a plot device, so exhausting having to see that over and over.
I agree for sure about bad enemies-to-lovers tropes.
I think what I almost want from enemies-to-lovers is like... Yeah, Pride and Pejudice is a good example because I kind of want enemies to livers to be based in larger social issues that are much bigger than the characters and a fundamental misunderstanding about the other person's world that they gradually discover more about. Not like... bigotry and bullying-- but like ... lateral aggression maybe? Or else maybe one has more power in society but just over and over proves themself Trustworthy and Loving despite the other's trauma and distrust based off of the lessons they learned in horrible circumstances.
I think actually The House on The Cerulean Sea is an example of this that I'm describing. Someone proves themselves flexible in their worldview to protect t what really matters: found family and love, being in solidarity with marginalized people, and standing up against bigotry... and then Someone else is given a chance to heal from a heart-rending betrayal and trauma.
Personally I'm really getting tired of the multiple switching narrators thing. It felt fresh at first in officially published boosk (as it reminded me of fanfics a lot) but now it's getting a bit stale. I still like it when it's neccessary for the point the author wants to make, but often it seems like lazy writing.
Big agree on miscommunication and enemies to lovers (I'm a friends to lovers fan). I hate the pregnancy trope too (yay for tokophobia).
Regarding costs of books, I love middle grade, but one thing that pushes me to purchase more middle grade is that they tend to be cheaper - at least on Amazon which is where I have to purchase most of my books. 6--12 pounds/euros is a great deal when the latest hardback release by an adult author can go for much more. Speaking of middle grade, if you have read any that you love, considering good reads failed to highlight that or graphic novels, ... I'm hearing you say you hate kids. lol. I hate kids too. But if you like any children's stories or middle grade books, would love to hear you talk about them one day.
Hi, I just happened upon your channel because I'm preparing a video reacting to fantasy tropes. I didn't know those weird covers had a name! I don't like them either :P I don't know who thought it was a good idea. I was avoiding getting House of the Cerulean Sea for the longest time because the only paperback version was the step-back cover. Eventually, I gave up and got the step-back cover :/
Also, those were some interesting tropes mentioned. The miscommunication one is such a pet peeve for me, so I wrote a story about the characters all realizing they were miscommunicating. By chapter four, they have a super open conversation about it, and the rest of the story is how they fix everything and then move forward to save the kingdom. While I do agree the enemies to lovers can be problematic, I think a version of it is okay meaning, frenemies to lovers. But it can't be toxic frenemies though. They have to be the bickering, friendly rivalry type. What do you think about those?
Ngl I hate that there’s so little good romance books. I love reading romance but the only good ones I’ve found are not marked as romance and are side plots or are historical. It’s just sad because the majority portray toxic relationships and try to play that as sexy and or are incredibly misogynistic despite typically being written for women. I would just love to read a well written good romance that isn’t historical or Austen.
All these complaints are just full on projection. I actually find miscommunication very human. It doesn’t have to be a major thing but little miscommunication happens a lot in every day life. It’s realism.
I find enemies to lovers very hit or miss and usually it's miss when it isn't fantasy. In contemporary romance books it seems to just be "we met and got off on the wrong foot so now we are Enemies" and like girl calm down. That's not an enemy that's someone being really over-the-top with a mild grudge, which is not compelling to read and there's usually no good reason for them to hold onto it. In historical fiction there's often much better reasons to actually be enemies, and it sort of overlaps with fantasy here in that respect, but the critical difference is that in historical fiction people who are enemies are often going to be tied to explicit real-world prejudices so we get stories about like Nazis falling in love with Jewish people and like no. just no. withcindy recently did a video about this sort of thing, though focussing more on contemporary romance with racists falling for someone of a racial minority. In fantasy it's then about like two people from opposing kingdoms falling in love, or people from one group who hates another group or for interpersonal reasons but the stakes are much higher than office politics because there's a global war going on, but it's not a direct and intentional parallel to racism or homophobia or something, it's just made up. So the "enemies" part is real and justified and there's a plausible reason to have them struggle with their attraction and to overcome prejudices or whatever the situation might call for, but it's not laced with problematic real-world parallels. (Usually.)
Agreed with the dislike of all these tropes and trends a surprise because i thought I was pretty open to all kinds of fiction or at least willing to give things a try shows we can all be less tolerant than we think.
today i learned that was called a step back cover and boy do i hate them lol. Mainly for your first reason of them just being annoying to hold. I would also add deckled edges to that. God there irritating to leaf though.
Kinda funny story. I once brough a copy of Homers Iliad from waterstones online that had deckled edges. At the times i didn't know what deckled edges were and this was my first interaction with them. I genuinely just thought it was a uncut book that got though quality control. I sent it back and ask for a replacement 3 times lol. At no point did someone just say "errr that's how its meant to be, its called deckled edges". I even sent photos the last time i sent it back and still no one told me lol. Was about a year later that i learned about it and was like OH lol. woops.
Haha wow that is a tragic story!
Yesss I loved Gideon the Ninth, but the way the romance was handled was the weakest link imo.
The range in prices for UK hardbacks actually gives me a headache
I hate really toxic relationships that are portrayed as romantic , especially in YA books.
My number one trope I despise is really common in south african literary fiction written by men, but it is childlessness and infertility specifically being tied to a lack of femininity and character flaws. Two of the books we read in high school had it! In the 2010s! My English teachers were women! In a way I'm thankful, this was before I had started to properly educate myself on race, but it was something I cared about, and I made the call that if these white male authors are portraying white women this derogatorily, I can't trust the messaging of the books around their central discussion on "racial dynamics" (load of absolute reverse racism bullshit).
The Pregnancy/Baby Trope. I know it can't be helped as it is unplanned and accidental, but I don't get how it can be sexy or romantic when it just changes a person, they go through hell and back and struggle with everything before and after, faces life time changes, long nights, ton of issues and sometimes it can be fatal. People already gone through with trauma of loosing something special to them, they don't need to be reminded about something they never had. Being barfed on, dealing with smelly diapers, being peed on, sleepless nights, debts, and lifechanging conditions and emotional stress is not sexy or romantic. It is serious stuff and not fun.
I will say I personally greatly enjoy a well done miscommunication in a story if it makes sense for the characters involved and/or is making commentary on how people’s own flaws can cause them to misunderstand even the people they love the most.
I personally can’t relate a ton to the idea that people communicate better in real life then they do fiction. And I say so as a person that has made a huge amount of effort over the years trying to improve my communication with loved ones & in turn my relationships with them. But a painful thing I’ve had to learn from this endeavor is many people once they’ve developed a certain perspective on who they think you are (some understandable, others more to do with their own flaws like insecurity or even bigotry) will likely not see your efforts in any other lens unless they consciously make that choice themselves. And so many people just don’t want to do that for many reasons. 🙁
A lot of these tropes might have started from good places but they've been used as a means for continuing abuse and toxicity in fictional relationships (and they feed into each other, enemies to lovers is often paired with love triangles and less often an eventual pregnancy), I obviously haven't done a lot of research but tropes used to be more nuanced and less plot-driving.
I hate miscommunication so much because so often it just seems like a way to extend the plot, but then I have to realize that my favourite shows rely on this trope and that is wild lol I even love it in them. For context, I love OFMD and Good Omens, both of whom have revolving relationship conflicts around miscommunication. But they do it, in my opinion, well. GO miscommunication makes sense because it is a result of systemic lay induced trauma and oppression and, on a smaller scale, the same goes for OFMD, though more so leaning into gender rather than queerness in relation to the systems of oppression that are prominent. GO is also enemies to lovers, but again it is done well because it is related to the same things leading to miscommunication and honestly isn’t a long process outside of that, being actual enemies for around a minute. Anyway, I just find it entertaining that I love works that follows tropes I usually get so annoyed by. Part of that is also because they, specifically OFMD, tend to play on and make fun of tropes possibly? Sorry to rant, have a great day y’all!
I couldn't think of a trope when you asked but as soon as pregnancy got mentioned it reminded me of the worst part of romanticising pregnancy trope. When a woman sacrifices herself so the baby can be born. Why,? She's dead, the baby is left without a mum and dad has to figure out being a single parent. Having seen the negative consequences of this play out in real life when I was younger I would really like this trope to die
I might be in the minority here, but I quite like step back covers. I didn't know they cost more to produce so that's made me not like them as much anymore but I think it's fairly subjective whether they're ugly or not
omg thank u youtube recs.... an lgbt booktuber AND she has tomorrow+tomorrow next to lauren groff.... be still my lit fic heart 🥰🥰
🥹🥹🥹
This is a fantastic video and agree with all of them! Plus, your laugh when describing Kylo Ren as a fascist was adorable! Haha It made me laugh too
I honestly watched that laugh back several times while edited and giggled at myself lol
@@WillowTalksBooks that was a great editing choice!
Parenting as the ultimate good = "repronormativity" It can be a useful term when researching this cultural expectation
I would LOVE for you to read the Locked Tomb series
ugh THANK YOU for mentioning step back covers. I won’t buy them anymore 😂
Alright y’all my hot take, unaliving on this hill: Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is the best love triangle in young adult fiction. True love triangle, warm fuzzies in an otherwise violent book, truly iconic
About the age gap thing, since few weeks we have "Consentement" in cinemas, it's an adaptation of book telling the real story of Vanessa Springora and her "relationship" with Gabriel Metzneff, she was I think 14 at the time it started. I was shocked how prominent figure he was back in those days while being quite public with being a pedophile.
I actually really love the stepback cover 😅 I'm definitely in the minority 😂 but I do wish they had a quote from the book instead of something like 'NY times bestseller' 😕
i disagree with a lot of these lol. great video tho!
I think romance being out of step with the plot is boring, i want the romance to be woven into the plot and be affected by the plot in a way thats not only happy ending focused. thats why enemies to lovers is so boring because its all about the tete a tete of getting together when i believe its more interesting to see established relationships struggle with their love and personal beliefs in relation to the plot.
also i dont think twilight is inherently sexist, no more than most books. Its about a woman getting what she wants. bella wanted edward, she wanted to be a vampire. It may be sinful and deadly but she still gets what she wants and lives happily. sure its mormon and has all that baggage. but its a fantasy of fulfilled desire
and another one cause im a contrarian. Im actually sick of reading stories about women and daughters hating eachother. I dont see any stories really where mothers and daughters work together, yes have complicated relationships, but still want the best for each other. less pitting women against eachother. motherthing doesn't do this either its about the pressures of motherhood, the mundanity and the misogyny that goes into it
One of my problems with Last Jedi, apart for being incredibly boring, was that Raylo thing. The guy kills of the guy you bonded as a surrogate father, tortures you, there is nothing more screaming evil than trying to commit a genocide and they decided this is a material for a romance plot? I want to understand the tought process behind it. I don't like romance in general, I don't mind a romantic subplot but I don't want it to take over the story. I personally find the trend of romantisising toxic relationships in YA books disturbing.
And yet it’s still my favourite Star War 🥲
@@WillowTalksBooks Out of the new ones I only really liked Rogue One.
Also when it comes to the pregnancy trope is that suddenly the badass MC can't contribute to anything because she's viewed as vulnerable and a fragile piece of glass which I think is...not a good view of pregnant women.
Also I agree that it is too romantised and sometimes written as a fetish which is even more disturbing.
I agree with miscommunication. I don't get it at all. You wasted all those words and pages that could have been solved in 5 minutes. Heck, films do it too. Home Alone remake comes to mind.d
Hey new video!!! 👏🏻🎉🎉☺️
Every other day! 💜
Just started the video and already hoping that the mean/evil metalhead trope is mentioned.
Haha sorry to disappoint but, as a metal head, that’s a fair one
@@WillowTalksBooks I'm caught in ambiguity. A fair trope? Or fair mention?
Love your first two points. I haven't encountered many of the others to a memorable degree....although I do really like Strange Weather in Tokyo which has a big age gap between the two people in the relationship. I don't see that book as problematic at all.
thanks for sharing, I just followed you on social media
Omg I haaaaaaaate step-back covers!
The trend - If it even is one , as maybe I’m just noticing more- that annoys me = authors’ names as big as or bigger than the title; perhaps I’m petty , but that just seems tacky to me
My partner had never hear of Ann Patchett. One day we were in a bookshop and saw a copy of Tom Lake, and my partner (totally reasonably) asked who the author was - Ann or Tom? lol
Ew, I got a transphobic ad after this ended. 🤢 Anyway I had fun watching this. I recently read and enjoyed a queer horror novella called Vicarious by Chloe Spencer and it kind of does the enemies-to-lovers thing, but it was done better than in most romance novels imo.
Also I was sort of nervous about mentioning the pregnancy trope because many readers love it, but I'm glad I did :)
A transphobic ad?? Wtf??
I’m really glad you had the confidence to mention that trope because it got me to talk about it in my own words too and how I also hate it :)
@@WillowTalksBooks It seemed to be for a documentary. I blocked and reported it.
@@WillowTalksBooks I regularly get these sort of ads when I watch my fave booktubers. It is either for books or documentaries. I report all the time, but I guess they target my location and age. Annoying.
I really dislike jealousy as a sign the love interest is falling for the heroine. Consuming jealous is not romantic, it is a red flag!
Also, miscarriage after the pregnancy has moved the plot along but dealing with an infant would be inconvenient. Miscarriages do happen but rarely at a story arc appropriate point in life.
Step back covers and jagged edge books are the reason I won’t buy a book I want to read
I get the pregnancy to a certain extent. As someone who does not necessarily want to be pregnant, I find the sugary nature of pregnancy in books (and film) off putting, especially when we live in a world where reproductive rights are non-existent or in jeopardy in so many parts of the world. But at the same time I hate the fact that the ONLY popular alternatives to sugary stories about pregnancy are pregnancy loss OR horror novels, because they just further stigmatize both motherhood AND chosen child free lifestyles at the same time. If you aren’t having a happy pregnancy/birthing/mothering moment then you are either grieving or in a demonic/body horror situation? It all feels very limiting (even though I think the horror genre of pregnancy has its own nuance- big picture of “pregnancy literature” as a whole, it removes nuance having the dichotomy).
I would also fundamentally disagree that disliking children wholesale is “normal” or should be normalized. Children are people and I don’t think it’s acceptable to dislike them based on their age, it’s not their fault they are young. It’s no different that disliking any other group of people wholesale imo 🤷🏾♀️
I agree, I know that people feel pigeon-holed into having to be a parent and they shouldn’t feel that way but I disagree with “I don’t like kids” being acceptable because kids are people too just as you said. Of course I know what people mean by saying they don’t like kids but it’s still pretty unfair.
@@Toribell1928for sure! NO ONE should feel like they need to have children if they don’t want them (it’s horribly unfair to everyone involved). I fully support all people not having kids if they aren’t 100% into the idea of parenting. But it would be blatantly unacceptable to say you blankety don’t like any other group of people, and it certainly hasn’t been a good thing when disliking other groups of people has been “normalized.”
I always have to try and stop myself from commenting before the end of the video (and usually fail lol) but the pregnancy trope!! This!
Pregnancy has been my longest recurring literal nightmare and it makes me feel repulsed a lot of the times it shows up in fiction, partially because of my own feelings about it, but also because it just ... changes the person entirely. (Kind of like two characters falling in love and then suddenly not being able to do anything without each other, or they stop 'existing' outside of the presence of the other, etc.) I loved _Nightbitch_ exactly because of how it confronts the societal views of motherhood and individuality, despite me never, ever wanting to carry a baby myself. She tried so hard to be the _idea_ of Supermom, and it wasn't until she became fed up and disillusioned with it and started acting more like herself - a night bitch - that her own relationship with motherhood changed drastically for the positive, her relationships with her kid and husband changed for the positive, even though it did not fit the societal image of a 'good mom'. She rediscovered her flame for art, and in the end, it's so obvious that she considers her greatest artistic creation to be her son, motherhood itself, as she finally nurtures the very roots of who _she_ is. I think about this book way too much even though I've no intention of ever being a parent myself. 😅
One trend I REALLY wish would go away? Colleen Hoover. Or anyone else who gets successful solely from being popular on Tik Tok, rather than creative merit and writing skills. My two cents.
The step back cover was fine with House of Leaves, as it was literally bigger on the inside.
Ok