Also WG: lets give these stupid submarines torpedoes with ranges above 10km so that cruisers and lower tier ships can't even reach them with the depth charges. WG totally butchered the balance with these things. They should just remove them or force them in a submarine-only PvE gamemode.
@@barrown1275 WeGreedy's arcade titles care nothing about actual history or realism .. as they point out themselves it's not a sim... but that's a lie, it's not a sim but it's not even an accurate arcade representation since they added those submarine shaped objects to the game. They don't fit the gameplay... thought I heard the devs say that multiple times during alpha testing... and most of involved agreed. except commerce department. Need more pixels to sell! Moar content, moar FOMO! That's all they care about.
For me it’s the Gato. As a BB main, if a Gato wants me dead, there’s next to nothing I can do to survive in the end. Super fast underwater and doesn’t have to ping you at all and can easily get into a range where the torps can’t miss, and they take out half your health with just a couple hits because they do so much damage, worst ship to fight ever
@@mindclaw915 You are super correct. Gato is a very fast submarine on the surface and periscope depth. Making Gato a pain to deal with. But underwater? Gato is slow as hell. another submarine can sub surveillance Gato and have Gato all sunk away.
@@rustysimonds5011 Funny you say that. I can Stern plug a Kremlin and Yamato players at ease as a submarine in U-4501. But I have SO MUCH TROUBLE with Vermont. I swear these slow ships can Dodge most of my torpedoes with some power evasion moves. I don't even shotgun and only fire one torp each 3 to 4 seconds. While getting 2 pings on Vermont! And still! He can evade like a boss. And return fire with ASW planes.
U-4501 is the fastest, but historically this type of sub was capable of 27knots. Compare that to Balao, which in this game goes 26 knots underwater, only was capable of 8 in real life, which is more than three times as fast.
@@baronofrhodes1185 According to Wikipedia U-4501's class was supposed to be capable of 24 knots submerged. Of course it is wikipedia, so dont take it as 100% factual.
Same, still it should be said that this one here is a first sea lord and he has sailed a good while and it does seem to make him pretty good, but yeah sometimes PAID ACTORS THE LOT OF EM😂
While the shotgun-nerf WAS needed, WG failed to adress the real issue with Submarines. And that's still very present. That issue is that if played correctly, a single submarine can pose such a big and uncounterable threat that their enemies are forced to either give up that flank, or overcommit to get close to the sub so hard that they likely lose multiple ships in the process. The buffs to turning radius was absolutely ridiculous to me, especially at lvl 8 and 10 where surface ships wasn't getting a similar buff to their ASW like the lower tiers did, and was used for the justification. At tiers 8-10, surface ships are no better off in terms of counterplay than they were before, BUT the submarines now turn tighter than most destroyers and will have turned 20-40 degrees further than the ping indicator moves by the time the indicator is done being displayed.
I recommend playing a sub at tiers 8-10. This will align your thoughts with reality. The nerf was massive and completely changed gameplay for subs. If you are right you should get 75% WR quickly. You will actually find as a sub you have a very limited window for success, and if a CV is in your game: good luck.
I have to agree with @pure.... here, I have played numerous sub games pre nerf in random, would generally last till game ended or 15 or so mins in, scoring anywhere from 60 to 80k damage, after nerfs for subs and apparently your idea of buffs for subs I now rarely last past 10mins and as soon as I ping I have 5 or 6 asw planes all somehow hitting me whilst using my amazing new ultra unfair turning radius to try and avoid all the charges dropped ( somewhere between 6 and 10 ) even when I ping through a turn, it doesn't matter, I am either back at Port or might as well be cause now you have a dd on your butt faster than you coming up fr9m behind and dropping 12 to 16 depth.charges on your head. Your only defence is ping ( show where you are again to the dd and everyone else) for more asw planes coming your way and the dd about to dump on you. The gameplay has changed massively since sub nerfs, BBs now stay out the back, doing loops behind islands near the caps, gaps between islands allow them to see your ping, but ping and launch asw planes but does not allow the sub player to send torps and ping successfully and even if you do manage, by the time torps are near the target they hit the island and now you have 5 or 6 asw planes to deal with. The only way subs can do well is not use ping but use homing torps cause they are faster and longer range than dumbfired but less than 50% the damage than dumbfire torps. Even doing the above will only net you the same damage score as the majority will be evaded. After nerfs, my s bring went from 60 to 80k damaged to 40 maybe 50k damage, in a Lot of games I scored less than 35k and died within.5 to 10 mins. So the nerfs are real dude. I have always said, keep the nerfs the way they are now, make the last depth level on a sub as run silent depth, sub serv, hydro depth charges and asw drops do.nothing, but subs cant use there torps, ping targets or detect ships, all they do is get away at thier top underwater speed. Also, there is no reason a sub under water can't see a ship until its ontop of you, you should be able to spot at you range eg 10k or 12k except if you are running silent at lowest depth. You should also be able to spot a dd in smoke from underwater at their spotting distance as smoke wouldn't in reality affect visual detection underwater which currently exists in the game, that's not fair for sub players
Not true you need alot of skill in subs especially the slow ones it just goes in this order 1 game starts 2 you go semi submerged (Carrier game) enemy planes spot you because they are searching for u) (Carrier game) you are forced to dive 30 feet down) 3 you spot some ships enemy sub is there too you get too close your torps do almost no damage. There are ctuisers and batleships you are in a slow sub so you get nuked by a bajilion airstrikes. 4 if you manage to not get nuked you try to leave but wait in the carrier game you onlt have 1 minute underwater left. And in the normal game you try to leave but the enemy sub spots you. 5 you go up, you either get nuked or shot at and u die
They base all the current complaints on the u4501, but it's unfair. Even if this sub goes 37k a hr, that's in a straight line, simply tapping left or right will drop speed to 18k a hr like turning away from asw for instance
They should remove homing torpedos or nerf them, it is just such a stupid game mechanic. Does Wargaming think that the BBs will start to push instead of sniping when there are CVs, invisible DDs throwing massive amounts of torpedos and now subs lurking around?
@@R4ZORLIGHT The Germans did. They fired homing torpedoes from subs at surface ships, particularly wolf packs hunting Atlantic cargo convoys. The Americans dropped homing torpedoes from planes, but called them depth charges. They lied. They were homing torpedoes. And they were designed to hunt subs.
There is a mod where it is literally dadicated to make players have much easier time to track down subs. Everytime the sub is ping. The Minimap will update. Which makes you have even better roughly location on where is the subs heading next. No to mention it also have a mod where you can see Depth Charges highlight when it’s drop. Aslain is one of the mods out there. They usually have good Anti Subs tool. When I said a single ping literally cause Subs to get minimap spotted. And it is update on both subs location and direction of where the subs is heading. I recommend for those who wants to hunt down subs. It is basically quite an advantage too. Because Subs will get this minimap spotting ever time it pinged. Means most subs usually spam pings, which makes you able to update their location easily and use Depth Charges.
@@faynk.6247 IDK. Don’t blame me. Modstation also have mod where you can tell enemy ship throttle. Modstation and Aslain are literally fine in WeeGee eyes. Even there is a mod for Dynamic Crosshair also adjusted depending on your shell based velocity which overall improve player’s accuracy. There’s also a mod where you can see your team Consumables and how many they have left. With a surface radar circle that tells you the radius and not rely on the Minimap. Oh and there’s also a mod tells you that if your teamate gets detected or not. Including torpedoes. Basically kinda like cheating but also it doesn’t. Because it doesn’t break the game. When I said there’s a body where it tells you subs on the minimap is based on how many times players ping as subs and it just update when your team or you can see the ping. It only shows you on Minimap but tbh, it only gives your rough idea where subs is heading. Which I think this should be a feature in Official Game, where it update subs location similar on how Hydrophone works and it just makes it a little Minimap spotting only. Besides, they are easy to be install and everyone can just download and use it for absolutely free.
@@tsuaririndoku I have to agree it's cheating, and yes you are to blame if you use such a mod or advertise it. Mods can be fun, and helpful for simple QoL improvements to your UI. But they should never give an advantage over those that don't use mods.
If they nurfed the underwater speed anymore it would make this sub worthless. It's got short range in comparison and slow surface speed in comparison to other subs at the tier. It also only has guided torps, sure you can dummy fire them and stay dark, but if you don't land multiple torps by guiding them, again, kinda worthless. I like it's uniqueness as is, I hope they never change the underwater speed.
@@drink15 difference is that those who play them know how broken and griefing they are so nah I will still and always despise the players who play them, scum in my opinion
Sub doing 50k damage while losing 70% of its hp "super imbalanced!!". Meanwhile HE spamming battleship camping A line all game long doing 300k dmg every game with almost zero skill involved is perfectly fine ^^
🤓🤓🤓says the sub main who can't use it correctly and gets mad when someone has any semblance of actually being able to counter submarines... if you complain so much about how "EASY" battleships are, why don't you try it yourself? let's see how the dispersion treats you
@@drink15no. DDs can be spotted easier by other ships with radar, hydro, planes, etc… it’s less agile, doesn’t have homing torps, and can’t escape as easily incoming shells by just going underwater. If you can’t understand that, I’m really wondering what kind of player you are because it’s not rocket science to understand how much subs are broken
@@chiracultrainstinct3d629 Yes DDs CAN be spotted by CVs, Radars, other DDs, but subs can also be spotted by friendly subs and there is always one on the same flank unless there is a sub div, though the same can be said for DDs, subs have their own form of radar to worry about, that 4 lines of tech tree ship have. Subs have homing torpedoes yes, but they need to give their position away to use those homing torpedoes, a torp DD never once has to give itself away, lets not also forget homing torpedoes do stop homing at a certain point and where they all group up, normally if you dodge one you've dodged them all. Now for the final elephant in the room, not every DD has the same concealment. A Khabba is never finding a Shima for example. So unless your flank has a DD with comparable stealth to the red DD. There isn't much that can be done, and as time goes on there are more and more large detect DDs being added, making that final point a lot more likely than not. I'm not saying subs don't play a part in stalling pushes, but DDs are far harder to counter and also matter far more. The raw data clearly shows that. Subs for all of their annoyances, are the weakest ship class in the game. Doesn't mean they can't still dev strike you, and that they can't be a major pain in the ass, but they have the lowest average damage and the lowest win rates.
@@drink15 I have yet to encounter a DD that was sufficiently insurmountable as to shut down an entire flank singlehandedly, much less keep me personally, when playing a BB, from pushing. A submarine can achieve that, as demonstrated in this video and many others. Are there counters? sure. But they're insufficient for dealing with good players. And it all boils down to a simple flaw in WG's game design philosophy. They balance the game around the bottom 30%, rather than the top 30%. As a result, it's not difficult to do well in any given class provided you have a basic grasp of the mechanics, but it is also possible for the top players to create impossible situations that are immensely unpleasant for all other players involved, simply through the abuse of the balancing flaws. We see this with just about every class in the game. Subs: Highly manoeuvrable, to the point that no ship armed with deck-mounted ASW can get on top of them. For the weaker players this allows them to survive otherwise fatal mistakes, which is all well and good. But for the skilled players, it makes them virtually invincible by virtue of being able to change direction on the spot and get out of the way of any retaliation. The video demonstrates this well, but I've seen substantially better performances against substantially more competent teams. CVs: The only countermeasure against air strikes is AA. 75% or more of your AA damage is confined to flak. Flak can be dodged if you know how to play a CV. So weak CV players will occasionally dodge flak and get their drop in, meaning they can still inflict damage. All well and good. But a competent CV player can effectively ignore your AA entirely and strike you regardless of how many ships you have around you, unless their collective continuous damage is sufficient to wipe out the strike before the immunity period of the strike itself. CVs are also completely immune to detonations, almost totally immune to fires and floods, and have effectively unlimited range, meaning they can hide behind an island at the corner of the map and strike you without ever being exposed to danger. All in an effort to protect the weak CV players, while giving competent ones incredibly potent tools to survive. BBs: One word. Overmatch. The magical tool that negates all skilled armour usage. Means that weak players don't have to really know the armour layout of different ships to be effective. They just point and click and see big numbers if they lead well enough. But a competent player? Doesn't matter how good you are at the game. If a competent BB wants you dead and his guns are 431mm or larger, you're dead as a cruiser player. Your options are to go dark and run for your life, and hope that he's not faster than you. Which, btw, they often are. Cruisers and DDs have diversified into so many niches at this point it's difficult to point to a specific problematic feature. Perhaps the fact some DDs these days outgun cruisers in sheer DPM. Or the fact some cruisers can stealth radar while also being outrageously tanky and hard to dislodge from a position. Or the fact some DDs can use air strikes to inflict heavy damage on you even when not having line of sight. Or the fact some cruisers come with SAP which completely breaks the armour threshold balance for equivalent tier ships and achieving consistency not unlike the overmatch problem BBs have. To say nothing of the BBs that also have SAP. All of this is great for weaker players and means they're likely to last longer and be more consistent. But in the hands of a player who knows the mechanics and game balance well enough to abuse it? It isn't difficult to create situations that are literally impossible to counter without an equally lopsided gimmick. A better approach would be to balance the game around the skills of the upper half of the playerbase, and then implement tutorials, guides, and training missions that help the weaker players hone their abilities enough to be successful.
I had no issue with the changes made to the torps...to me it was an acceptable change to make things more challenging for subs to get things done, which I enjoy. But the ping direction indicator was an absolute DEATH NAIL for subs... might as well, at that point, pop a huge neon marker over a sub that is a big as a carrier blinking "OVER HERE!! DROP ALL YOUR DEPTH CHARGES RIGHT HERE!!!"
Lordy this is even more unrealistic. No sub until nuclear power was used could approach that fast under water. Sub launched torps should be just as powerful a DD launched not air launched. This is just ridiculous.
One thing people seem to forget when they criticize players for not 'just dodging' torpedoes is that the majority of the time the torps aren't their only threat. That Conq for example was dealing with attacks from the CV, torps from the sub, and fire from the Kremlin. Often trying to negate one of those leaves you entirely vulnerable to the others and you're forced to eat damage that you can't realistically do anything to prevent. I wasn't even a BB main but somewhere between the CV rework and subs World of Warships completely lost me. Sure there are ways to counter those threats assuming you aren't just unlucky. But for me they really sucked all the fun right out of the gameplay.
Sea Lord...... Did you forget subs can go FULL SPEED at Periscope depth? That is usually what people are complaining about when they talk about subs being underwater. Still, thats about the same speed as THIS BAD BOY goes underwater so.... does it really matter?
@@drink15 thank you captain obvious, wasn't referring to that sub. The U 4501 is special after all and can do that 32 knots at depth, and cus its only got homing torps it can stay down their and still fire. But most tech tree subs can go like 28 to 30 ish knots at periscope depth.
I dont think its hard to counter most subs (with the exception of U-4501 and Gato) and most people complaining are the same ones that never played the class and understood its own struggles. But if I were allowed to do a rework of submarine mechanics. Here was my ideas for anyone curious. Periscope speed: It should be nerfed to 2/3 the subs top speed. That way each depth has a gradual speed bracket going from full speed, 2/3 speed, then half speed underwater. (U-4501 should just have her PD depth nerfed to half its full speed if its gimmick is its high underwater speed) Acoustic torpedoes: Id keep them because thats the only way to fight subs. But id make it so that the ping doesn't stay locked onto the target ship. Rather for every ping that hits a target ship, the acoustic torps will change course for seven seconds and then stop homing unless the submarine pings again. Acoustic torpedoes (new idea): remove ping and make them an entirely passive weapon. They have a limited seeker cone span and whatever crosses into it, they will start to track via the position of the engines and propellers on a ship, (so they will usually aim for the rear amidships area). But they will stop homing at the same distance current acoustic torpedoes stop homing. Also Acoustic torpedoes should just be a special gimmick equipment only allowed on tier 8 to tier 10 German subs because they had homing torps and used them in ww2 historically. As well as tier 10 Balao because she is in her Post War refit and the Americans definitely got their hands on Acoustic torpedoes by that time. The rest of the subs can definitely learn to play with unguided torpedoes because at the end of the day, these little spectres are just submersible torp DDs which ties in to the next idea. But if DDs can score devastating hits with an unguided spread of torpedoes from 6km out or less, then a submarine can do that with even more ease. (Which Im out of space for, one moment.)
Ship launched decoys: Destroyers and certain cruisers can have launchable decoys that bait acoustic torpedoes over to them if they are within the homing cone of the acoustic torpedoes. This mainly applies to my second alternate version of homing torps Also more DDs should have hydrophones or some passive commander skill gimmick for discount hydrophones. And more players should probably take torpedo lookout equipment
Hedgehog mortar equipment: For the trade of maybe sacrificing an AA battery or depending on the ship, a main gun. DDs can get Hedgehog mortars which would by pulling up the same UI as the ASW airstrike but you have only a forward firing cone and less range. But it will allow you to throw ASW mortars a variable distance ahead of the DD to attack a detected submarine. However the catch being those mortars have to hit the submarine directly like the irl Hedgehog. So its still required to get a good angle on the submarine before launching a spread of mortars. There will one exception to this gimmick. That being British DDs in higher tiers will get Squid launchers or the Limbo depth charge launchers, that for shorter firing range, can shoot these mortar depth charged and have them explode around the submarine like how rack rolled depth charges are
Periscope spotting: DDs be warned as this is a trigger warning. But subs should be able to spot all surface ships from periscope at their ship detection range. However the cap being at 8km. So basically a BB can't be spotted unless he is in that 8km zone and not obstructed from view. But a DD not in smoke will be spotted at its 6.1 to 5.6 km detection range. Why add this change? Well tons of subs irl, especially American subs have fought destroyers and won. Granted they had a limited window to do so. Being spotted at 5.6 km by a submarine only gives the submarine 2 km to launch an attack (to all my people who play submarines, you should know how tight 2 km is to make an accurate attack) but at least this will allow at least some combat against destroyers for submarine. Since all the DD has to do if he isn't just sitting in smoke is charge the direction where the torpedoes came from. On the general side, this will allow the ships on your team to have the first shots against an enemy DD capping a point. Making the submarine more valuable in the team by being a more effective reconnaissance boat, even if the submarine doesn't attack the destroyer. Allied subs can also protect battleships from DDs trying to sneak up on them.
Controllable deck guns: This is simple and doesn't require huge explanation. My favorite subs are Thrasher and I-56, soley for their controllable deck guns. Because being solely reliant on torpedoes isn't all that fun. But having a close quarters duel with a preferably low health light target or fighting for your life after losing battery power is kinda thrilling (at least to me but Im also a masochist in this game :> ). Sure subs even with controllable deck guns will still never win a fight with a DD unless that DD is on the verge of death. But we're here to try and have fun. Guns are fun, simple as that
these are all fantastic ideas! Nice to see some people actually thinking the sub problem through rather than just hating on subs all together. Also, I love the realistic bases of those ideas.
Well I am applauding him. Never had much time with the 4501. Prefer the 2501 but the best i ever did was 190k and recently the best was 141k last week (and that basically playing her as a DD now with dummy torps). I will say I have never seen so many stupid battleship captains in my life. All they needed to do was a light tap on the A or D key and those torps would have missed. Still well done and commiserations for not being able to be on the winning side.
From what I can tell, even though i've not seen them, they need their own maps and server rooms, say teams of 8, 2 battleship and destroyer bots and 4 sub players, aim is to sink both ships first, that sort of thing
I played this for years and then went to War Thunder Naval. In my opinion its a much better game especially when you play Naval Enduring Confrontation. Most of the matches now for RB and AB you can find a match in 30 seconds to one minute. I usually go to the kitchen grab a soda or something and the match is just getting started before i get back. Now in full disclosure they at times will be 50/50 gaijin AI ships which now fight fairly decently and recently have the ability to take capture points which they never used to do. If you are an old naval player give it a 2nd chance you wont regret it. The battles are spectacular at the low BR 4.3-5.0 and the upper tiers up to 7.0 honestly need some love on the map size/layout. I spent hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours enjoying WOWs but i just cant get into the arcade'y style which is even more arcade than WTs arcade mode.
Subs are fun and i enjoy playing them. Here is are a few tips from a sub player. People who don’t follow there rules are the easiest to kill and have the most salt. 1. watch the minimap and drop asw as soon as you see one outline of the sub 2. Drop asw as soon as you see the sub itself and shoot if it’s on the surface 3. If you get pinged, turn out and focus of dodging torps 4. Don’t ignore any sub 5. Don’t just sit still 6. If you are double pinged, clear it asap and once you clear it, turn anywhere
As I always said from beginning to end, Subs should have been the true stealth/ambush class of the game. Meaning they would have their historical surface and submerged speeds (can be approved with captain skills and upgrades) they spawn closer to the middle of the map like they kinda do now, very hard to spot when their surfaced, harder when submerged, and their main goal is to slip behind enemy lines and sink the enemy CV and BBs that are sniping or ambush ships like DDs trying to stealth cap. Obviously remove the stupid homing torps.
Why are people ooo-ing and aaa-ing over a sub, heck, ANY ship, that was facing semi-conscious opponents who don't even know to use a rudder? A DD would have had a kraken with these opponents no problem.
You, me, and thousands more mate. I have an Arkansas Beta and the Gremyaschi, along with 40+ other gold ships, and when they rammmed subcancer in, uninstalled the game on the spot. I poke in for special events and what not, but as long as they keep subcancer in the game, my wallet stays OUT of the game. *SHAMEFUL* that people like SLM continue to defend what is the crux of this games slow death.
Everything On this entire vid, and everything SubCancer LM said here, is *EXACTLY* why i and thousands more will not spend one more dime on this game. SLM mocks the Schliefen - ignoring the fact the BB was repeatedly crossdropped by sky cancer on top of the sub cancer. SLM spends the whole vid whinging that 'subs cant do damage anymore' - while the subcancer in play had more than 140k before the half way point. Point of reference, the U4501 was good for at best 24knots underwater; NOT 37. Wargambling went out of their way to take the valid complaints of skycancer, ramped it to 1000 and made subcancer - despite having the Chieftain himself promise this game would *never* have subcancer because they KNEW, originally, the game would be *broken* by subcancer. Insane speed, insane homing torpedoes, insane maneuverability, insane torpedo capacity, all insane - and just plain bloody stupid. Lo and behold? *THE GAME IS BROKEN* . Stop defending this garbage SLM. The mental gymnastics on display here is just plain bloody sad at this point. You should be ashamed of yourself - gods know, we are ashamed for you. Subcancer needs to be *removed* from this game. Period. Give them their own mini mode sure, but get them out of the main game. Stop pretending there's any skill on display here. Hopefully that subcancer "driver" was mass reported.
The most funny and tragic thing about 4501 is that WG will not nerf it, bc majority of playerbase buy it after videos like this and die in first 3-5 minutes of match, so overall stats is not that strong.
@@logicalbrick5311 lol, I had that same sentiment, briefly. There is no comparison between subs and CVs - CVs passive spotting abilities and suite of automatic capabilities make that the most toxic class in the game. I have a unicorn WR in CVs while having an abysmal PR. I am a bad CV player who wins in them at a unicorn rate. Trash class.
The situation also helped cause this much damage. Losing a cruiser and two destroyers early opens up damage those ships should have at least attempted. Two ships acting like drone targets don't help their teams' chances.
Subs should be in the game, But homing torps shouldn't, It's complete garbage. Even I can do stupidly good in subs and I don't play them, Just had a few attempts to at least try new class and I was like nah this is BS, Basically guaranteed hits. Remove homing torps, But make the straight torps have long reload and deal massive damage even more than Shima or DD's with deep water torps. It would feel a lot more rewarding, Needing to get in close and having only normal torps that hit and then trying to escape.
I’m in the minority, but I think subs are fun. The nerf was needed but it greatly diminished the fun factor for me. I was gonna spend my steel on the Gato but now I think I’ll save it for something else. Also, I think WG needs to bring in PT boats. The D Day missions have them and they look like they would be fun for suicide missions.
I think PT boats would function very similarly to subs in game, with their great concealment and ability to simply run if they're about to be detected (although dds already do this so it wouldn't be a huge issue). I would love to see some PT boats!
I'd be cool with them, Make them something unique though. Obviously super fast making them hard to hit so they at least have a chance, But make them immune to sub pings and have PT boats be able to lay minefields to block strategic points on maps.
Always entertaining to watch how this game evolves since i quit playing. Wonder if they'll add some suoer secret submersible warships for the lulz and dubs.
35 to 80 k tons depending greatly on what battleship your talking about not hundreds of thousands of tons but half a hundred, hundreds of thousands of tons is a little exaggerated but like USS Iowa dry weight is around 50 ,47 to 52 thousand tons exact weight is not known with changes and upgrades over the years 80 years of service again dry weight not with fuel , ballast , ammo , powder , (bodies service members) ,food or water for plumbing ect which adds in the neighborhood of 20 to 30 k tons one shell for the 16 inch guns is a ton 2,375 pounds give or take a lb for manufacturing variations but 1 shell for those huge guns weighs as much as a small car and they could hold up to 1300 shells in optimal conditions so just shells adds a massive amount of weight. The weight figures are staggering tho for sure ,
2 thing need to fix - CV spotting to DD - SS shotgun. and sonar direction. we just know the sonar direct to us but not the ss moving direction. - All sonar torpedo should inculde SS.
SLM, nothing has really changed with subs. Their mechanics were BS through extensive testing, through entry into the game and since all the changes since they entered the game. They don't belong in the game, they add nothing positive to the game and are not good for the game. They are only here because WG'ing decided they can make money on them.
So tired of all the crying about subs. They have been nerfed to death. Response time is so slow its almost suicide to even engage a ship. And the torps are so slow that any BB can dodge them, even when locked on. Subs have reached boogeyman, legend status.
Actually a ship or a submarine can stop forward movement very quickly within 3 to 4 ship lengths. The Captain or OOD will command all back full and cavitate with rudder amidship. This will arrest forward movement very quickly. If they need more help, the Captain or OOD can have the helmsman turn the rudder hard to port or starboard depending in the situation. In a worst case scenario, they can drop the anchor too. So yes, a ship can stop it's forward momentum in a very short time and length if they have too.
I hate subs bro out of 4 of my last games I died to subs 3 times out of em that shit is wild annoying I went offline it’s been three days and make me not wanna play this game when sub and cv is a game it’s game over
Man there are a lot iof ........ in this comment section.... 'it's just a game' -> yeah I'm sure there is a nice My Little Pony game for you out there, go play that 'what about the babyboat mains, there is no difference between a sub and an undetected DD' -> get your sub 50% win rate opinion out of here .. thanks for reminding me what this playerbase turned into when they openend the floodgates after cbt.
Subs are not that big an issue anymore. They are still a nuisance but CVs are the worst thing in the game. I have the U-5401 and have not used it in I recon over 6 months. And the only time I use a CV is for naval battles if on a X2. I wish the game had match options for realistic battles that have CV and subs. and an arcade that had none of these 2. And that would be the only difference. Replays like this also prove how useless win ratio actually tells a person's skill in the game. I'm not too fond of stat jockeys 😂
Why are you giving props to this guy and his sub? He's a friend of yours right? or worse a division mate.? Just where do you stand on this class? You indicated in a past video you passively let slip you were a shotgunning sub player which is not helping the cause dude. Your even grinning under your commentary in this vid
Some of the dumbest, most ignorant video commentary I've ever heard. The way subs are implemented they have no business in the game. Homing torpedoes have no business in this game. The sooner I get over the sunk-cost fallacy of this game the better.
Most of the “Subs are OP” crap is from people who have never played subs enough to understand they are very difficult to play and excel in. Most sub players are absolutely inconsequential to the game’s outcome. 4501 takes a particular level of skill, and even in this video you can see how brain dead some of the high damage victims were being in their playstyles. That is what it takes to have a good sub game, and he still lost.
WG: Subs need to do Alpha-Class speed underwater for balance reasons.
Also WG: US standard battleships will stay at 21 knots for historical reasons.
Tell us what game you developed?
Us standard battleships also have decent guns though. Not that I disagree with those complaining about how fast submarines move underwater.
@@play030I'm just gonna leave this here: you don't need to know how to fly to know a helicopter shouldn't be crashed in a tree
Also WG: lets give these stupid submarines torpedoes with ranges above 10km so that cruisers and lower tier ships can't even reach them with the depth charges.
WG totally butchered the balance with these things. They should just remove them or force them in a submarine-only PvE gamemode.
@@barrown1275 WeGreedy's arcade titles care nothing about actual history or realism .. as they point out themselves it's not a sim... but that's a lie, it's not a sim but it's not even an accurate arcade representation since they added those submarine shaped objects to the game.
They don't fit the gameplay... thought I heard the devs say that multiple times during alpha testing... and most of involved agreed. except commerce department.
Need more pixels to sell! Moar content, moar FOMO! That's all they care about.
For me it’s the Gato. As a BB main, if a Gato wants me dead, there’s next to nothing I can do to survive in the end. Super fast underwater and doesn’t have to ping you at all and can easily get into a range where the torps can’t miss, and they take out half your health with just a couple hits because they do so much damage, worst ship to fight ever
Yeah they need to nerf the speed of those torpedos or something
not to be that guy, but the gato is super slow underwater, but super fast on surface or at periscope depth.
@@mindclaw915 You are super correct. Gato is a very fast submarine on the surface and periscope depth. Making Gato a pain to deal with.
But underwater? Gato is slow as hell. another submarine can sub surveillance Gato and have Gato all sunk away.
If your in a tier 10 bb with 100k health and healing, a tier 10 sub with 14k health should be a issue.
@@rustysimonds5011 Funny you say that. I can Stern plug a Kremlin and Yamato players at ease as a submarine in U-4501. But I have SO MUCH TROUBLE with Vermont.
I swear these slow ships can Dodge most of my torpedoes with some power evasion moves. I don't even shotgun and only fire one torp each 3 to 4 seconds. While getting 2 pings on Vermont! And still! He can evade like a boss. And return fire with ASW planes.
36kts under water what a joke
Your the joke. It's a damn game.
And, for us bb players..... what exactly is the difference between a dd zooming by at 40+ kts undetected?
It is as fast as a Sea Wolf class of today....
@@Sjoerdwm1981 the difference is: sub has faster torps lol
The Sub can get within a range of 3 kilometers without being spotted, a dd cant
U-4501 is the fastest, but historically this type of sub was capable of 27knots. Compare that to Balao, which in this game goes 26 knots underwater, only was capable of 8 in real life, which is more than three times as fast.
4501 was not capable of 27ktd underwater... that sort of speed wasn't possible until second generation teardrop hulls.
They should nerf sub speed across the board
@@baronofrhodes1185 Maybe it wasn't U-4501, but at least one class of German sub was capable of 26-27 knots submerged
Was it also capable of healing itself without going into drydock?
@@baronofrhodes1185 According to Wikipedia U-4501's class was supposed to be capable of 24 knots submerged. Of course it is wikipedia, so dont take it as 100% factual.
yesterday, playing Gouden Leeuw on the same map, I was sunk by U4501 as the first prey. I couldn't do anything. This sub underwater is crazy fast
It did not help that your Gouden Leeuw did not get the ASW buff. Leaving your shop and Minotaur at the mercy of Submarines hentai your stern.
also shows how hard it is to counter the subs. A sub player that knows what he does and plays at max range, almost cant be countered or killed
Yeah because tou just can't go foward to take less damage because oposition supporting sub.
Well like CVs, but even more extreme.
So DD too!!)))
@@bumblebity2902 Going forward and getting killed by the enemy team... what a great advice!
@FdsJj dd can't dive tho.
Why can't I play against that horrible team he plays against? 😂
Same, still it should be said that this one here is a first sea lord and he has sailed a good while and it does seem to make him pretty good, but yeah sometimes PAID ACTORS THE LOT OF EM😂
While the shotgun-nerf WAS needed, WG failed to adress the real issue with Submarines. And that's still very present. That issue is that if played correctly, a single submarine can pose such a big and uncounterable threat that their enemies are forced to either give up that flank, or overcommit to get close to the sub so hard that they likely lose multiple ships in the process. The buffs to turning radius was absolutely ridiculous to me, especially at lvl 8 and 10 where surface ships wasn't getting a similar buff to their ASW like the lower tiers did, and was used for the justification. At tiers 8-10, surface ships are no better off in terms of counterplay than they were before, BUT the submarines now turn tighter than most destroyers and will have turned 20-40 degrees further than the ping indicator moves by the time the indicator is done being displayed.
I recommend playing a sub at tiers 8-10. This will align your thoughts with reality. The nerf was massive and completely changed gameplay for subs. If you are right you should get 75% WR quickly. You will actually find as a sub you have a very limited window for success, and if a CV is in your game: good luck.
I have to agree with @pure.... here, I have played numerous sub games pre nerf in random, would generally last till game ended or 15 or so mins in, scoring anywhere from 60 to 80k damage, after nerfs for subs and apparently your idea of buffs for subs I now rarely last past 10mins and as soon as I ping I have 5 or 6 asw planes all somehow hitting me whilst using my amazing new ultra unfair turning radius to try and avoid all the charges dropped ( somewhere between 6 and 10 ) even when I ping through a turn, it doesn't matter, I am either back at Port or might as well be cause now you have a dd on your butt faster than you coming up fr9m behind and dropping 12 to 16 depth.charges on your head. Your only defence is ping ( show where you are again to the dd and everyone else) for more asw planes coming your way and the dd about to dump on you.
The gameplay has changed massively since sub nerfs, BBs now stay out the back, doing loops behind islands near the caps, gaps between islands allow them to see your ping, but ping and launch asw planes but does not allow the sub player to send torps and ping successfully and even if you do manage, by the time torps are near the target they hit the island and now you have 5 or 6 asw planes to deal with. The only way subs can do well is not use ping but use homing torps cause they are faster and longer range than dumbfired but less than 50% the damage than dumbfire torps. Even doing the above will only net you the same damage score as the majority will be evaded. After nerfs, my s bring went from 60 to 80k damaged to 40 maybe 50k damage, in a Lot of games I scored less than 35k and died within.5 to 10 mins. So the nerfs are real dude.
I have always said, keep the nerfs the way they are now, make the last depth level on a sub as run silent depth, sub serv, hydro depth charges and asw drops do.nothing, but subs cant use there torps, ping targets or detect ships, all they do is get away at thier top underwater speed. Also, there is no reason a sub under water can't see a ship until its ontop of you, you should be able to spot at you range eg 10k or 12k except if you are running silent at lowest depth. You should also be able to spot a dd in smoke from underwater at their spotting distance as smoke wouldn't in reality affect visual detection underwater which currently exists in the game, that's not fair for sub players
Not true you need alot of skill in subs especially the slow ones it just goes in this order
1 game starts
2 you go semi submerged
(Carrier game) enemy planes spot you because they are searching for u)
(Carrier game) you are forced to dive 30 feet down)
3 you spot some ships enemy sub is there too you get too close your torps do almost no damage.
There are ctuisers and batleships you are in a slow sub so you get nuked by a bajilion airstrikes.
4 if you manage to not get nuked you try to leave but wait in the carrier game you onlt have 1 minute underwater left.
And in the normal game you try to leave but the enemy sub spots you.
5 you go up, you either get nuked or shot at and u die
@@rustysimonds5011 They did get crazy on the ASW and if a sub is on the surface why does depth charges damage it but no surface ships?
They base all the current complaints on the u4501, but it's unfair. Even if this sub goes 37k a hr, that's in a straight line, simply tapping left or right will drop speed to 18k a hr like turning away from asw for instance
They should remove homing torpedos or nerf them, it is just such a stupid game mechanic.
Does Wargaming think that the BBs will start to push instead of sniping when there are CVs, invisible DDs throwing massive amounts of torpedos and now subs lurking around?
They should remove them. Nasty and annoying mechanic. Pings should be a DD ability that locates subs.
FWIW homing torpedoes did exist in WW2. Germans and Americans used them with some success.
@@LoanwordEggcorn Yes but not like in the game!
@@R4ZORLIGHT The Germans did. They fired homing torpedoes from subs at surface ships, particularly wolf packs hunting Atlantic cargo convoys.
The Americans dropped homing torpedoes from planes, but called them depth charges. They lied. They were homing torpedoes. And they were designed to hunt subs.
Hilarious. You want to remove pings from subs. What you don’t realise is that it is the PINGS that allow you to find subs.
Sound logic there.
There is a mod where it is literally dadicated to make players have much easier time to track down subs. Everytime the sub is ping. The Minimap will update. Which makes you have even better roughly location on where is the subs heading next. No to mention it also have a mod where you can see Depth Charges highlight when it’s drop. Aslain is one of the mods out there. They usually have good Anti Subs tool. When I said a single ping literally cause Subs to get minimap spotted. And it is update on both subs location and direction of where the subs is heading. I recommend for those who wants to hunt down subs. It is basically quite an advantage too. Because Subs will get this minimap spotting ever time it pinged. Means most subs usually spam pings, which makes you able to update their location easily and use Depth Charges.
Also in aislain mods? Found it...yes its there...thanks bro!
Isn’t that just straight up cheating ?. Might as well install a mod that have a lead indicator that aim the shot for you
@@faynk.6247 IDK. Don’t blame me. Modstation also have mod where you can tell enemy ship throttle. Modstation and Aslain are literally fine in WeeGee eyes. Even there is a mod for Dynamic Crosshair also adjusted depending on your shell based velocity which overall improve player’s accuracy. There’s also a mod where you can see your team Consumables and how many they have left. With a surface radar circle that tells you the radius and not rely on the Minimap. Oh and there’s also a mod tells you that if your teamate gets detected or not. Including torpedoes. Basically kinda like cheating but also it doesn’t. Because it doesn’t break the game. When I said there’s a body where it tells you subs on the minimap is based on how many times players ping as subs and it just update when your team or you can see the ping. It only shows you on Minimap but tbh, it only gives your rough idea where subs is heading. Which I think this should be a feature in Official Game, where it update subs location similar on how Hydrophone works and it just makes it a little Minimap spotting only.
Besides, they are easy to be install and everyone can just download and use it for absolutely free.
@@tsuaririndoku I have to agree it's cheating, and yes you are to blame if you use such a mod or advertise it. Mods can be fun, and helpful for simple QoL improvements to your UI. But they should never give an advantage over those that don't use mods.
@@faynk.6247
Oh well, WOWs cheats when it makes this sub more capable than it really is in real-life.
If they nurfed the underwater speed anymore it would make this sub worthless. It's got short range in comparison and slow surface speed in comparison to other subs at the tier. It also only has guided torps, sure you can dummy fire them and stay dark, but if you don't land multiple torps by guiding them, again, kinda worthless. I like it's uniqueness as is, I hope they never change the underwater speed.
...worthless,
As they should be.
He's not running the double ping skill. It would show up as an icon any time he had something double pinged
I can confirm, Sea Lord got that wrong
Disgusting and I despise sub players
Despise the Wag for putting them in the game, not the player for playing the same as designed.
Sub drivers usually talk smack...because they think they are actually "good" at the game.
@@barrybolton1396 you can say that about almost any ship in the game
@@drink15 difference is that those who play them know how broken and griefing they are so nah I will still and always despise the players who play them, scum in my opinion
@@donovandavis5961 Its a good thing opinion is not fact.
Sub doing 50k damage while losing 70% of its hp "super imbalanced!!". Meanwhile HE spamming battleship camping A line all game long doing 300k dmg every game with almost zero skill involved is perfectly fine ^^
🤓🤓🤓says the sub main who can't use it correctly and gets mad when someone has any semblance of actually being able to counter submarines... if you complain so much about how "EASY" battleships are, why don't you try it yourself? let's see how the dispersion treats you
This is why I hate subs. I just stops any battleship push dead in its tracks.
DDs do the same
@@drink15no. DDs can be spotted easier by other ships with radar, hydro, planes, etc… it’s less agile, doesn’t have homing torps, and can’t escape as easily incoming shells by just going underwater. If you can’t understand that, I’m really wondering what kind of player you are because it’s not rocket science to understand how much subs are broken
@@chiracultrainstinct3d629 Yes DDs CAN be spotted by CVs, Radars, other DDs, but subs can also be spotted by friendly subs and there is always one on the same flank unless there is a sub div, though the same can be said for DDs, subs have their own form of radar to worry about, that 4 lines of tech tree ship have. Subs have homing torpedoes yes, but they need to give their position away to use those homing torpedoes, a torp DD never once has to give itself away, lets not also forget homing torpedoes do stop homing at a certain point and where they all group up, normally if you dodge one you've dodged them all. Now for the final elephant in the room, not every DD has the same concealment. A Khabba is never finding a Shima for example. So unless your flank has a DD with comparable stealth to the red DD. There isn't much that can be done, and as time goes on there are more and more large detect DDs being added, making that final point a lot more likely than not.
I'm not saying subs don't play a part in stalling pushes, but DDs are far harder to counter and also matter far more. The raw data clearly shows that. Subs for all of their annoyances, are the weakest ship class in the game. Doesn't mean they can't still dev strike you, and that they can't be a major pain in the ass, but they have the lowest average damage and the lowest win rates.
@@chiracultrainstinct3d629 if you cant understand my response to his comment, you should stay off the internet. None of what you said was my point…
@@drink15 I have yet to encounter a DD that was sufficiently insurmountable as to shut down an entire flank singlehandedly, much less keep me personally, when playing a BB, from pushing. A submarine can achieve that, as demonstrated in this video and many others. Are there counters? sure. But they're insufficient for dealing with good players. And it all boils down to a simple flaw in WG's game design philosophy. They balance the game around the bottom 30%, rather than the top 30%. As a result, it's not difficult to do well in any given class provided you have a basic grasp of the mechanics, but it is also possible for the top players to create impossible situations that are immensely unpleasant for all other players involved, simply through the abuse of the balancing flaws.
We see this with just about every class in the game.
Subs: Highly manoeuvrable, to the point that no ship armed with deck-mounted ASW can get on top of them. For the weaker players this allows them to survive otherwise fatal mistakes, which is all well and good. But for the skilled players, it makes them virtually invincible by virtue of being able to change direction on the spot and get out of the way of any retaliation. The video demonstrates this well, but I've seen substantially better performances against substantially more competent teams.
CVs: The only countermeasure against air strikes is AA. 75% or more of your AA damage is confined to flak. Flak can be dodged if you know how to play a CV. So weak CV players will occasionally dodge flak and get their drop in, meaning they can still inflict damage. All well and good. But a competent CV player can effectively ignore your AA entirely and strike you regardless of how many ships you have around you, unless their collective continuous damage is sufficient to wipe out the strike before the immunity period of the strike itself. CVs are also completely immune to detonations, almost totally immune to fires and floods, and have effectively unlimited range, meaning they can hide behind an island at the corner of the map and strike you without ever being exposed to danger. All in an effort to protect the weak CV players, while giving competent ones incredibly potent tools to survive.
BBs: One word. Overmatch. The magical tool that negates all skilled armour usage. Means that weak players don't have to really know the armour layout of different ships to be effective. They just point and click and see big numbers if they lead well enough. But a competent player? Doesn't matter how good you are at the game. If a competent BB wants you dead and his guns are 431mm or larger, you're dead as a cruiser player. Your options are to go dark and run for your life, and hope that he's not faster than you. Which, btw, they often are.
Cruisers and DDs have diversified into so many niches at this point it's difficult to point to a specific problematic feature. Perhaps the fact some DDs these days outgun cruisers in sheer DPM. Or the fact some cruisers can stealth radar while also being outrageously tanky and hard to dislodge from a position. Or the fact some DDs can use air strikes to inflict heavy damage on you even when not having line of sight. Or the fact some cruisers come with SAP which completely breaks the armour threshold balance for equivalent tier ships and achieving consistency not unlike the overmatch problem BBs have. To say nothing of the BBs that also have SAP.
All of this is great for weaker players and means they're likely to last longer and be more consistent. But in the hands of a player who knows the mechanics and game balance well enough to abuse it? It isn't difficult to create situations that are literally impossible to counter without an equally lopsided gimmick. A better approach would be to balance the game around the skills of the upper half of the playerbase, and then implement tutorials, guides, and training missions that help the weaker players hone their abilities enough to be successful.
the vid says most high tier subs go 17-18 kts underwater. this is incorrect. Balio goes 25kts underwater, and U-2501 goes 26
I had no issue with the changes made to the torps...to me it was an acceptable change to make things more challenging for subs to get things done, which I enjoy.
But the ping direction indicator was an absolute DEATH NAIL for subs... might as well, at that point, pop a huge neon marker over a sub that is a big as a carrier blinking "OVER HERE!! DROP ALL YOUR DEPTH CHARGES RIGHT HERE!!!"
In reality, only nuclear submarine can do 30+ knots under water
Lordy this is even more unrealistic. No sub until nuclear power was used could approach that fast under water. Sub launched torps should be just as powerful a DD launched not air launched. This is just ridiculous.
As an original Belfast owner i am happy. It takes the focus off of the original hated ships lol!
The 4501 is pure fuckery, I could not catch it in a DD.
If you hate subs this hard? The Maceau destroyer got the sonic speed.
For the chase.
@@dominquedoty458 if sub player have more than 1 braincell he will sail to teammates
@@no1caers True. And more often than not... I get nitwit teammates...leaving me to sink...
One thing people seem to forget when they criticize players for not 'just dodging' torpedoes is that the majority of the time the torps aren't their only threat. That Conq for example was dealing with attacks from the CV, torps from the sub, and fire from the Kremlin. Often trying to negate one of those leaves you entirely vulnerable to the others and you're forced to eat damage that you can't realistically do anything to prevent.
I wasn't even a BB main but somewhere between the CV rework and subs World of Warships completely lost me. Sure there are ways to counter those threats assuming you aren't just unlucky. But for me they really sucked all the fun right out of the gameplay.
thanks for showing that sea lord :) So many ships that just weren't paying attention lol
Sea Lord...... Did you forget subs can go FULL SPEED at Periscope depth? That is usually what people are complaining about when they talk about subs being underwater. Still, thats about the same speed as THIS BAD BOY goes underwater so.... does it really matter?
Not the one in the video. Max 20ish at that depth
@@drink15 thank you captain obvious, wasn't referring to that sub. The U 4501 is special after all and can do that 32 knots at depth, and cus its only got homing torps it can stay down their and still fire. But most tech tree subs can go like 28 to 30 ish knots at periscope depth.
@@jaywerner8415 Here is another obvious comment, mention the subs you are talking about next time and don't be salty when someone corrects you
It goes faster underwater?!? Front and rear sonar. Give us more hedgehogs.
They should limit diving to a maximum of 1-2 minutes. It doesn't really matter if there are tracking torpedoes, since normal torpedoes can kill BB too
I wish I had recorded my 240k post nerf Gato game.
the game records them automatically, unless you have replays turned off
I dont think its hard to counter most subs (with the exception of U-4501 and Gato) and most people complaining are the same ones that never played the class and understood its own struggles.
But if I were allowed to do a rework of submarine mechanics. Here was my ideas for anyone curious.
Periscope speed: It should be nerfed to 2/3 the subs top speed. That way each depth has a gradual speed bracket going from full speed, 2/3 speed, then half speed underwater. (U-4501 should just have her PD depth nerfed to half its full speed if its gimmick is its high underwater speed)
Acoustic torpedoes: Id keep them because thats the only way to fight subs. But id make it so that the ping doesn't stay locked onto the target ship. Rather for every ping that hits a target ship, the acoustic torps will change course for seven seconds and then stop homing unless the submarine pings again.
Acoustic torpedoes (new idea): remove ping and make them an entirely passive weapon. They have a limited seeker cone span and whatever crosses into it, they will start to track via the position of the engines and propellers on a ship, (so they will usually aim for the rear amidships area). But they will stop homing at the same distance current acoustic torpedoes stop homing.
Also Acoustic torpedoes should just be a special gimmick equipment only allowed on tier 8 to tier 10 German subs because they had homing torps and used them in ww2 historically. As well as tier 10 Balao because she is in her Post War refit and the Americans definitely got their hands on Acoustic torpedoes by that time. The rest of the subs can definitely learn to play with unguided torpedoes because at the end of the day, these little spectres are just submersible torp DDs which ties in to the next idea. But if DDs can score devastating hits with an unguided spread of torpedoes from 6km out or less, then a submarine can do that with even more ease. (Which Im out of space for, one moment.)
Ship launched decoys: Destroyers and certain cruisers can have launchable decoys that bait acoustic torpedoes over to them if they are within the homing cone of the acoustic torpedoes. This mainly applies to my second alternate version of homing torps
Also more DDs should have hydrophones or some passive commander skill gimmick for discount hydrophones. And more players should probably take torpedo lookout equipment
Hedgehog mortar equipment: For the trade of maybe sacrificing an AA battery or depending on the ship, a main gun. DDs can get Hedgehog mortars which would by pulling up the same UI as the ASW airstrike but you have only a forward firing cone and less range. But it will allow you to throw ASW mortars a variable distance ahead of the DD to attack a detected submarine. However the catch being those mortars have to hit the submarine directly like the irl Hedgehog. So its still required to get a good angle on the submarine before launching a spread of mortars. There will one exception to this gimmick. That being British DDs in higher tiers will get Squid launchers or the Limbo depth charge launchers, that for shorter firing range, can shoot these mortar depth charged and have them explode around the submarine like how rack rolled depth charges are
Periscope spotting: DDs be warned as this is a trigger warning. But subs should be able to spot all surface ships from periscope at their ship detection range. However the cap being at 8km. So basically a BB can't be spotted unless he is in that 8km zone and not obstructed from view. But a DD not in smoke will be spotted at its 6.1 to 5.6 km detection range. Why add this change? Well tons of subs irl, especially American subs have fought destroyers and won. Granted they had a limited window to do so. Being spotted at 5.6 km by a submarine only gives the submarine 2 km to launch an attack (to all my people who play submarines, you should know how tight 2 km is to make an accurate attack) but at least this will allow at least some combat against destroyers for submarine. Since all the DD has to do if he isn't just sitting in smoke is charge the direction where the torpedoes came from. On the general side, this will allow the ships on your team to have the first shots against an enemy DD capping a point. Making the submarine more valuable in the team by being a more effective reconnaissance boat, even if the submarine doesn't attack the destroyer. Allied subs can also protect battleships from DDs trying to sneak up on them.
Controllable deck guns: This is simple and doesn't require huge explanation. My favorite subs are Thrasher and I-56, soley for their controllable deck guns. Because being solely reliant on torpedoes isn't all that fun. But having a close quarters duel with a preferably low health light target or fighting for your life after losing battery power is kinda thrilling (at least to me but Im also a masochist in this game :> ). Sure subs even with controllable deck guns will still never win a fight with a DD unless that DD is on the verge of death. But we're here to try and have fun. Guns are fun, simple as that
these are all fantastic ideas! Nice to see some people actually thinking the sub problem through rather than just hating on subs all together. Also, I love the realistic bases of those ideas.
I just report them ALL.
This is why reports don’t really matter. +1
And I always compliment them.
Insane.
Wiki suggest the Type XXVI subs can go at 24 knots submerged, yet WoWs say it is capable of 36 knots.
Like WTF!
276K puts him at 15th on the list. 344K is top dog.
challenge accepted lol
Great video on why the player base are walking away from this game. The slow death march of this game continues.
I would only play a mode without subs if it were available
I like how 3 hydro battleships just died without using hydro or its own rudder
Well I am applauding him. Never had much time with the 4501. Prefer the 2501 but the best i ever did was 190k and recently the best was 141k last week (and that basically playing her as a DD now with dummy torps). I will say I have never seen so many stupid battleship captains in my life. All they needed to do was a light tap on the A or D key and those torps would have missed. Still well done and commiserations for not being able to be on the winning side.
thanks man, appreciate it
When pinged, I have yet to avoid homing. Thats why they have a hard time avoiding.
From what I can tell, even though i've not seen them, they need their own maps and server rooms, say teams of 8, 2 battleship and destroyer bots and 4 sub players, aim is to sink both ships first, that sort of thing
I played this for years and then went to War Thunder Naval. In my opinion its a much better game especially when you play Naval Enduring Confrontation.
Most of the matches now for RB and AB you can find a match in 30 seconds to one minute. I usually go to the kitchen grab a soda or something and the match is just getting started before i get back. Now in full disclosure they at times will be 50/50 gaijin AI ships which now fight fairly decently and recently have the ability to take capture points which they never used to do.
If you are an old naval player give it a 2nd chance you wont regret it. The battles are spectacular at the low BR 4.3-5.0 and the upper tiers up to 7.0 honestly need some love on the map size/layout.
I spent hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours enjoying WOWs but i just cant get into the arcade'y style which is even more arcade than WTs arcade mode.
haha.... the total weight of the torps launched exceeds the weight of the sub! Gotta love game physics!!
that's peak realism right there (and kudos for actually figuring that out)
Subs are fun and i enjoy playing them. Here is are a few tips from a sub player. People who don’t follow there rules are the easiest to kill and have the most salt.
1. watch the minimap and drop asw as soon as you see one outline of the sub
2. Drop asw as soon as you see the sub itself and shoot if it’s on the surface
3. If you get pinged, turn out and focus of dodging torps
4. Don’t ignore any sub
5. Don’t just sit still
6. If you are double pinged, clear it asap and once you clear it, turn anywhere
As I always said from beginning to end, Subs should have been the true stealth/ambush class of the game. Meaning they would have their historical surface and submerged speeds (can be approved with captain skills and upgrades) they spawn closer to the middle of the map like they kinda do now, very hard to spot when their surfaced, harder when submerged, and their main goal is to slip behind enemy lines and sink the enemy CV and BBs that are sniping or ambush ships like DDs trying to stealth cap. Obviously remove the stupid homing torps.
Why are people ooo-ing and aaa-ing over a sub, heck, ANY ship, that was facing semi-conscious opponents who don't even know to use a rudder? A DD would have had a kraken with these opponents no problem.
The ship class that got me to never spend another dime on WoWS.
You, me, and thousands more mate. I have an Arkansas Beta and the Gremyaschi, along with 40+ other gold ships, and when they rammmed subcancer in, uninstalled the game on the spot. I poke in for special events and what not, but as long as they keep subcancer in the game, my wallet stays OUT of the game. *SHAMEFUL* that people like SLM continue to defend what is the crux of this games slow death.
Everything On this entire vid, and everything SubCancer LM said here, is *EXACTLY* why i and thousands more will not spend one more dime on this game. SLM mocks the Schliefen - ignoring the fact the BB was repeatedly crossdropped by sky cancer on top of the sub cancer. SLM spends the whole vid whinging that 'subs cant do damage anymore' - while the subcancer in play had more than 140k before the half way point. Point of reference, the U4501 was good for at best 24knots underwater; NOT 37.
Wargambling went out of their way to take the valid complaints of skycancer, ramped it to 1000 and made subcancer - despite having the Chieftain himself promise this game would *never* have subcancer because they KNEW, originally, the game would be *broken* by subcancer. Insane speed, insane homing torpedoes, insane maneuverability, insane torpedo capacity, all insane - and just plain bloody stupid.
Lo and behold?
*THE GAME IS BROKEN* .
Stop defending this garbage SLM. The mental gymnastics on display here is just plain bloody sad at this point. You should be ashamed of yourself - gods know, we are ashamed for you.
Subcancer needs to be *removed* from this game. Period. Give them their own mini mode sure, but get them out of the main game. Stop pretending there's any skill on display here. Hopefully that subcancer "driver" was mass reported.
Who knew that adding subs would suck major ass.
The most funny and tragic thing about 4501 is that WG will not nerf it, bc majority of playerbase buy it after videos like this and die in first 3-5 minutes of match, so overall stats is not that strong.
subs is why i went back to playing CVs
if u cant beat them....join them
Fr
Honestly cvs I don’t think are that bad
God I’m gonna get some hate for that🙃
subs is why i completely stopped playing randoms, i only play brawls and rankeds here and there
CVs are worse, especially for torp boats.
@@logicalbrick5311 lol, I had that same sentiment, briefly. There is no comparison between subs and CVs - CVs passive spotting abilities and suite of automatic capabilities make that the most toxic class in the game. I have a unicorn WR in CVs while having an abysmal PR. I am a bad CV player who wins in them at a unicorn rate. Trash class.
The situation also helped cause this much damage. Losing a cruiser and two destroyers early opens up damage those ships should have at least attempted. Two ships acting like drone targets don't help their teams' chances.
Hate the class, but hats off to him he played well
Subs should be in the game, But homing torps shouldn't, It's complete garbage.
Even I can do stupidly good in subs and I don't play them, Just had a few attempts to at least try new class and I was like nah this is BS, Basically guaranteed hits.
Remove homing torps, But make the straight torps have long reload and deal massive damage even more than Shima or DD's with deep water torps.
It would feel a lot more rewarding, Needing to get in close and having only normal torps that hit and then trying to escape.
Subs are the apex predators of this game. Negates 90% of the power creep we've dealt with in much more powerful boats (looking at you GK).
I’m in the minority, but I think subs are fun. The nerf was needed but it greatly diminished the fun factor for me. I was gonna spend my steel on the Gato but now I think I’ll save it for something else.
Also, I think WG needs to bring in PT boats. The D Day missions have them and they look like they would be fun for suicide missions.
I think PT boats would function very similarly to subs in game, with their great concealment and ability to simply run if they're about to be detected (although dds already do this so it wouldn't be a huge issue). I would love to see some PT boats!
I'd be cool with them, Make them something unique though.
Obviously super fast making them hard to hit so they at least have a chance, But make them immune to sub pings and have PT boats be able to lay minefields to block strategic points on maps.
Well then you have the nearly useless Gato to balance it out
Thank you WG for bringing subs into the game and ruining it for many of us.
Always entertaining to watch how this game evolves since i quit playing. Wonder if they'll add some suoer secret submersible warships for the lulz and dubs.
Russian homing shells for premium T12 BB
Those who sail this thing around our water ... I wish them well sir i truly do 😂 Hate? Nahhh
Fortunately, submarines are still not in Legends😅
They are coming?
If cv’s are staying how they are, I’m down for subs.
@@andrewjohnson5365 no they aren't
@JunkoXan Wanna bet? I still can mind them saying Legends will be different we won't be adding CVs lol.
@@andrewjohnson5365 CVs were expected, not subs.
I honestly don’t have an issue facing subs anymore.
The most satisfying kills are against subs
35 to 80 k tons depending greatly on what battleship your talking about not hundreds of thousands of tons but half a hundred, hundreds of thousands of tons is a little exaggerated but like USS Iowa dry weight is around 50 ,47 to 52 thousand tons exact weight is not known with changes and upgrades over the years 80 years of service again dry weight not with fuel , ballast , ammo , powder , (bodies service members) ,food or water for plumbing ect which adds in the neighborhood of 20 to 30 k tons one shell for the 16 inch guns is a ton 2,375 pounds give or take a lb for manufacturing variations but 1 shell for those huge guns weighs as much as a small car and they could hold up to 1300 shells in optimal conditions so just shells adds a massive amount of weight. The weight figures are staggering tho for sure ,
2 thing need to fix
- CV spotting to DD
- SS shotgun. and sonar direction. we just know the sonar direct to us but not the ss moving direction.
- All sonar torpedo should inculde SS.
I feel dirty, Bad Sealord, Bad.
Hate them!!! They should at least be detected for 5 or 6 seconds when they ping.
sometimes i want to play again but then see shit like this and am like...nah.
The way he mispronounces Balao hurts my brain
Submarines are a squishy kill I kill them every time I'm in attack Range.
SLM, nothing has really changed with subs. Their mechanics were BS through extensive testing, through entry into the game and since all the changes since they entered the game. They don't belong in the game, they add nothing positive to the game and are not good for the game. They are only here because WG'ing decided they can make money on them.
As long Dds and cv are in the game, its Game over Dead for WG. Sub are oke just need a littel nerfe .
it is a boat and not a ship
So tired of all the crying about subs. They have been nerfed to death. Response time is so slow its almost suicide to even engage a ship. And the torps are so slow that any BB can dodge them, even when locked on. Subs have reached boogeyman, legend status.
Hate cvs way more than subs but 4501 is Hella annoying
Actually a ship or a submarine can stop forward movement very quickly within 3 to 4 ship lengths. The Captain or OOD will command all back full and cavitate with rudder amidship. This will arrest forward movement very quickly. If they need more help, the Captain or OOD can have the helmsman turn the rudder hard to port or starboard depending in the situation. In a worst case scenario, they can drop the anchor too. So yes, a ship can stop it's forward momentum in a very short time and length if they have too.
he farmed noobs... big deal.
General Kenobi!
I hate subs bro out of 4 of my last games I died to subs 3 times out of em that shit is wild annoying I went offline it’s been three days and make me not wanna play this game when sub and cv is a game it’s game over
Subs suck. Can delete. Cv is glorious compared to subs.
All subs just need removing from game, SO unrealistic. Gor one from a supercontainer, not played, waiting for a trade in event.
Just popped in for a quick thumbs down for even mentioning subs!!! Haha jk!!
Why this crap ship is still in the game?
Man there are a lot iof ........ in this comment section....
'it's just a game' -> yeah I'm sure there is a nice My Little Pony game for you out there, go play that
'what about the babyboat mains, there is no difference between a sub and an undetected DD' -> get your sub 50% win rate opinion out of here
.. thanks for reminding me what this playerbase turned into when they openend the floodgates after cbt.
"excape"
Subs are not that big an issue anymore. They are still a nuisance but CVs are the worst thing in the game.
I have the U-5401 and have not used it in I recon over 6 months. And the only time I use a CV is for naval battles if on a X2.
I wish the game had match options for realistic battles that have CV and subs. and an arcade that had none of these 2. And that would be the only difference.
Replays like this also prove how useless win ratio actually tells a person's skill in the game. I'm not too fond of stat jockeys 😂
EE41, gg good sir.
thank you, appreciate it!
Why are you giving props to this guy and his sub? He's a friend of yours right? or worse a division mate.? Just where do you stand on this class? You indicated in a past video you passively let slip you were a shotgunning sub player which is not helping the cause dude. Your even grinning under your commentary in this vid
"let slip you were a shotgunning sub player"
My guy, I've posted full matches of me playing Gato on this very channel
Most Hated Ships In The Game because subs and cv's suck
Some of the dumbest, most ignorant video commentary I've ever heard. The way subs are implemented they have no business in the game. Homing torpedoes have no business in this game. The sooner I get over the sunk-cost fallacy of this game the better.
First!
🤮
well..ich have 300k+ coal.....the question is....do i wanne be a dick :D
I picked it up (I was out of other coal ships and unique commanders), I think she only left port for a few asyms
@@FltCaptAlan thats my fear. As i am not really a sub enjoyer per se. still in some matchups it can be helpfull.
Most of the “Subs are OP” crap is from people who have never played subs enough to understand they are very difficult to play and excel in. Most sub players are absolutely inconsequential to the game’s outcome. 4501 takes a particular level of skill, and even in this video you can see how brain dead some of the high damage victims were being in their playstyles. That is what it takes to have a good sub game, and he still lost.
@@xPureNRG007x well, throwing games is something you will see in any type of ship. These days people arent really thinking, just clicking
No
Animal. Dislike the video & utter disrespect to the player. not gonna even continue watching..
downvoted because
I reverted that by thumbs up
@@fidelcastro4396as did i. He is earning a him more likes. He also watch the video and comment which counts as interaction.
u-4501 the only current playable sub, everything else half useful. I feel sorry if you bought the s-189
S-189 is still playable.
subs are completely useless now.
Let’s all be real here.
I’d rather fight 2 subs than 2 CVs hot take I know.
Wow literally 1 or 2 subs in the whole game are good… soooooooo game breaking… you people made your own bed.