@@wampuscatenterprises3188 I mean, Phineas fucked up, but that was a result of him being a victim of the cycle. And he did have his moment of clarity before Spahr.
@@cooperalt7980 There are no victims of the cylce, only participants... only selfish people doing selfish things for selfish reasons. It's not until they recogonize their selfishness & reject it that they 'break the cycle'. Anyway, my previous point: Phineas' fuck up was because Spahr was NOT self-aware enough to recognize his selfish manipulation of his subordinate to the point of loss of self-control.
This episode does such a good job at introducing Costigan. We start by hearing Spahr's thoughts on her, tinted by his hopes that with how well she knows him she might be able to help. We even see her helping out someone else, with a polite and cordial tone of voice. Then she started talking to him, and despite keeping the exact same polite tone, every instinct in me was screaming at Spahr that he needs to leave - that this person holds no sympathy for him and will provide him no relief or assistance.
all i could think of when she said "pursue valor" was that pursuing valor is exactly what got Phineas to do what he did on Midst. he was so desperate to take away this caenum that he assaulted Sherman and the cabaret because he didn't want to miss that opportunity to pay off a debt he's been trying to pay off his whole life. i honestly wouldn't be surprised if Spahr decides to breach after this because he sees that whenever you want to do anything it's "for the good of the trust" but it's actually detrimental to others.
It also sounded like Costigan lost her consector position over a circumstance similar to Phineas's. Both had a rage outburst, but Costigan was able to frame hers better by shifting the blame and controlling the narration.
I think Spahr is the type to do things from the inside. I can see him working with Hieronymous, for example. I don't know how the plot could get to that point, though.
I'm really excited to see what Spar took from the whole exchange. The pot shattering was such a good scene! The tension and denial his mentor has over what happened was so good.
I feel so bad for Jonas, because it seems like no matter how much he owns up to his mistakes, and seeks forgiveness, no one actually forgives him. The main problem being is that he is seeking that forgiveness from the wrong people, and for things that were not his fault. I have a feeling though, if he were to go to Phineas and apologise to him, he WOULD forgive him. Mostly because he is in the same boat, when it comes to doing people wrong. We saw when he realised all the fucked up things he did, and tried to say sorry, the response was an all around "Fuck you". I hope those two are able to reconnect, and heal their relationship. Cause even if the circumstances that brought them together were toxic, I think their bond was genuine.
Agreed - Politicians always need someone to take the blame. A Leader would say "the buck stops here" - I take responsibility Politicians however - lets make it "that one's fault - Jonas Spahr is responsible and didn't do his job"... ignoring the fact that 'they' put Spahr in that role.
It may just be the smashed bonsai and terrifying musical cue talking here, but something tells me Costigan hasn’t quiiiite moved on from the Fleit incident as much as she thinks she has…
So... How does philanthropy work in a valor based system? Because it seems like one of those rich gets richer situations. You give away money and are rewarded for your kindness with... Money. Or the equivalent thereof. It's a tax write off which gives you money. Notaries must have a field day.
Exactly... I have valor to help people and helping people gets me more valor. Then, the helped ones go into debt because they needed help and received it.
Oh Sphar seems like hes gonna breach so hard. "He fucking got clarity"? That sounds like it. On a side note for the previous episode, does anyone else wonder if Kozma actually did and was truthful about what she said or if she just said it to get the Trust to do what she wants?
I could definitely see it go either way. But I do feel like she is probably legit considering the whole "the breach is everywhere" thing, which we can pretty well assume is true considering that Heronimous, one of the wealthiest people in the trust is in on it.
I'm about 50/50 on Kozma's claim. I can very easily see her genuinely being responsible, if even just as the one making the calls and sending others to handle it, and I don't doubt that she has the kind of connections and power to make it happen. I also wouldn't doubt that someone capable of getting a bit of foresight (as we already know a few people can) could time things well enough and know where to be to make the claim that they did it, and it would definitely be in her best interest to lean into it and use the moon's destruction to psych out the Trust. I agree, though, Spahr looks so much like he's either about to breach or take matters into his own hands from within the system. He knows what valor as a principle looks like (since he called Sherman valorous even while he was deep in debt) and may well go seeking his version of valor.
@@OtherKirby I think from a story perspective it probably HAS to be Kozma's fault for the moon. Its either her fault OR it was genuinely just a freak natural disaster which she is taking credit for. I can't really think of many other options, and its a bit late in the story to introduce one i feel like
@OtherKirby I'm wondering if Kozma might actually have been behind the kidnapping of Flight's grandson. Costigan just laid out how that ultimately led to the Trust's purchase of Midst. Did the Baron convince the butler to breach and then confess the information she needed planted in the Upper Trust?
@@cedaremberrRemember the stealth ship at the end of Mica. That was probably Kozma trying to get him out before Spahr showed up. Maybe Kozma even wanted one of the Fleits, since Costigan said he also tried to kidnap Milton Sr.
The further Spahr spirals, the more I hope Phineas is able to get him outta there. And who knows - maybe there's more than one kind of fault referenced by the title of this episode; a faultline splitting Spahr from the Trust's hot nonsense.
How is there not a SINGLE comment here (at the time I wrote this, don't @ me) about how Costigan looks kind of like Laudna?? I love the art this episode!
I had to go back and check. The boy from episode 3 of season 1, that was Milton Flight Jr! This poor kid, man. His parents are murdered by the Trust, then he gets kidnapped and has to get saved by the same people, and he thinks they're the good guys! Spahr was there for both events. The Trust really has a stranglehold on the populace of the Highest Light, I'm starting to think that the Fold is probably a better place to live.
Ooh I hope Jonas can find his way to the Baron. The damage she can cause will be worth it. I'm also holding out for Weepe to do something incredibly wild to the Trust. Afterall he did mention before joining that he read the entire book on the Trust in detail....
Oh wow seeing Spahr in this position was hard. 😢 I disliked him in the beginning and how he treated Phineas..... now I understand..... and now I pity him.
Wow she is a rotten little monster. And she doesnt even have the excuse of the moon blowing up. If it had just been the Phineas incident he could have probably handled it.
@@AnaPradosA Probably, but we are seeing the seed of doubt in the whole Trust bussines, I bet Sparh is gonna be more receptive to other perspectives since the Trust did him so dirty, and even he is realizing how bizarre everyone's behaviour is
It really feels like the designs in the art changes every episode. Spahr was Black and had a big bushy beard last episode and looked like a wrecked. Here he looks like a think brown pretty boy.
It does for the most part. They have several artist create scenes and pick out which ones work best. There have been a couple repeats artist though. The narrators want Midst to be whatever people imagine it as and so there is no set style.
I have to say, Spahr without his beard looks weird wufbwucbwfu 😅 But I love that we can see where the chain comes from 👀 damn, Olga. The fact that she answered Phineas' lash out saying she killed the Filets because tbey refused to cooperate
I didn't think I would ever like Spahr, but hes a good man, even before this scene I was starting to feel for him. This was such a good episode just solidifying what he was already feeling. Caenum be damned
Okay, the real question - how does the monetary system work in this world? Valor/Caenum beads are not exchanged during transactions, so this is a form of credit within the Trust. These is a monetary system existing separately outside of Trust accounts (since you can PAY your way to get to the upper trust), so I'm confused - the Valor seems like a social structure thing, but more capitalist, where you can just buy it. So if you are working to bay back your dept, you just can get it back with money - so why is everyone obsessed with deeds and not money.
The Trust is its own thing where Valor/Caenum is the only currency. Everyone else uses regular money. Weepe was able to buy his way in because making a donation to the trust would of course be considered "valorous" and the trust needs money because if they want to spread they need to be able to actually interact with other places like Midst where Valor would be worthless. Weepe also got into the upper trust for betraying the Breach route. He wouldn't have had nearly as much valor if not for that. He'd still be valorous but not upper trust valorous. As for why everyone in the trust is obsessed with deeds and not money, I'd chalk that up to just being indoctrinated. It's a cult, and the high ranking people in the cult don't want anything to change because they're high ranking, while the low ranking people have either been so brainwashed their whole lives into thinking they deserve it or they try to escape and are brought back by force like the people from the cabaret. And since they can't leave there's no way for them to actually obtain money to "donate" their way into the upper trust like weepe did
I think that Valor funktions pretty much like normal ,,digital money", however, it is not printed by a central bank, but generated by "good deeds" or rather "deeds that benefit the trust" (For example, you working in your job for a month is beneficial for society and thus generates valor. You being sick for a week that month is a detriment to society, so you'll not only generate no valor for that time, you obtain Caenum). This is why Imalda believes Weepe to be so important. When he rattet out the breach, he didn't just get payed for it, he literaly generated a ton of new money, and he did so in a way, that created the most possible amount he could. So, When he now buys stuff with it, it will flow into the trust economy, thus benefiting the whole of the collective, which is why Imelda was so adamant in getting him to the highest light, believing he will find ways to generate more Valor/Money for the trust as a whole. What I'm kinda curious about is how many "paycheck to paychek" trustees there actually are. So far, we've only seen indepted people who are forced to work to pay off their debt, and the "valourous" folk who live in luxury and only think of ways to generate more Valor with "Good deeds" all day.
DISILLUSIONED DISILLUSIONED! yay! Spahr gets some clarity and we can see the direct work of the system on him and all of those in the company.. especially the “family” to “company” pipeline.. yikes…
You meant to use "cranium", not "caenum" at 4:39. Please fix that at least in the subtitles, because "caenum" means "filth/dirt" and not "head/skull" like I assume you meant to use. Unless he has a bunch of dirt on him or something
Yeah, do tell the creators of the show what they meant, they are surely wrong, and you're obviously correct even tho you have no idea what the story is about. They meant to use Caenum, it's a part of economic system of this world, and Caenum is the debt of the individual, represented by the black beads they carry on them.
"Look what you made me do" is such a classic abuser line. Glad Spahr is self-aware enough to hopefully break the cycle.
I was like "don't you fuckin say it" then she said it
Too bad Phineas wasn't.
@@wampuscatenterprises3188 I mean, Phineas fucked up, but that was a result of him being a victim of the cycle. And he did have his moment of clarity before Spahr.
@@cooperalt7980 There are no victims of the cylce, only participants... only selfish people doing selfish things for selfish reasons. It's not until they recogonize their selfishness & reject it that they 'break the cycle'. Anyway, my previous point: Phineas' fuck up was because Spahr was NOT self-aware enough to recognize his selfish manipulation of his subordinate to the point of loss of self-control.
@wampuscatenterprises3188 some of these people are *born* into this system. This is a Cult. I'd say there are victims.
This episode does such a good job at introducing Costigan. We start by hearing Spahr's thoughts on her, tinted by his hopes that with how well she knows him she might be able to help. We even see her helping out someone else, with a polite and cordial tone of voice. Then she started talking to him, and despite keeping the exact same polite tone, every instinct in me was screaming at Spahr that he needs to leave - that this person holds no sympathy for him and will provide him no relief or assistance.
This was a great glimpse into how Jonas Spahr learned to act and how he passed that to Phineas. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next.
all i could think of when she said "pursue valor" was that pursuing valor is exactly what got Phineas to do what he did on Midst. he was so desperate to take away this caenum that he assaulted Sherman and the cabaret because he didn't want to miss that opportunity to pay off a debt he's been trying to pay off his whole life.
i honestly wouldn't be surprised if Spahr decides to breach after this because he sees that whenever you want to do anything it's "for the good of the trust" but it's actually detrimental to others.
It also sounded like Costigan lost her consector position over a circumstance similar to Phineas's. Both had a rage outburst, but Costigan was able to frame hers better by shifting the blame and controlling the narration.
@@Maggus935 which is what everyone even IRL do. It's all about control of the narrative and its outcomes.
I think Spahr is the type to do things from the inside. I can see him working with Hieronymous, for example. I don't know how the plot could get to that point, though.
@@cosmic_wind yess i would love nothing more than having him and Phineas reunite under Cosma Lazlo in breach
I'm really excited to see what Spar took from the whole exchange. The pot shattering was such a good scene! The tension and denial his mentor has over what happened was so good.
I feel so bad for Jonas, because it seems like no matter how much he owns up to his mistakes, and seeks forgiveness, no one actually forgives him. The main problem being is that he is seeking that forgiveness from the wrong people, and for things that were not his fault. I have a feeling though, if he were to go to Phineas and apologise to him, he WOULD forgive him. Mostly because he is in the same boat, when it comes to doing people wrong. We saw when he realised all the fucked up things he did, and tried to say sorry, the response was an all around "Fuck you".
I hope those two are able to reconnect, and heal their relationship. Cause even if the circumstances that brought them together were toxic, I think their bond was genuine.
Well said!
Normally, you'd think it would be a good thing for someone to pursue philanthropic endeavors in their retirement years, but this is the Trust 💀
The Trust did Spahr SO dirty.
Agreed - Politicians always need someone to take the blame.
A Leader would say "the buck stops here" - I take responsibility
Politicians however - lets make it "that one's fault - Jonas Spahr is responsible and didn't do his job"... ignoring the fact that 'they' put Spahr in that role.
I'm glad Sparh recognizes that Costigan was an abusive pos to him
The sound of Costigan clipping branches from her plants reminds me very strongly of Weepe and the nutcracker.
It may just be the smashed bonsai and terrifying musical cue talking here, but something tells me Costigan hasn’t quiiiite moved on from the Fleit incident as much as she thinks she has…
Two upper Trust members breached and they killed them? They are utterly ruthless. All while thinking they are the purest people in the cosmos.
So... How does philanthropy work in a valor based system? Because it seems like one of those rich gets richer situations. You give away money and are rewarded for your kindness with... Money. Or the equivalent thereof. It's a tax write off which gives you money. Notaries must have a field day.
Exactly... I have valor to help people and helping people gets me more valor. Then, the helped ones go into debt because they needed help and received it.
@@wtpauley that is genuinely such a terrifying system. That you basically end up having to PAY to receive "charity."
It's called investing
Costigan is such a funny name to give this character, in this position. "Cost again".
Back then, Spahr thought he was onto something when he regurgitated talking points he learned from Costigan lmao.
Oh Sphar seems like hes gonna breach so hard. "He fucking got clarity"? That sounds like it. On a side note for the previous episode, does anyone else wonder if Kozma actually did and was truthful about what she said or if she just said it to get the Trust to do what she wants?
I could definitely see it go either way. But I do feel like she is probably legit considering the whole "the breach is everywhere" thing, which we can pretty well assume is true considering that Heronimous, one of the wealthiest people in the trust is in on it.
I'm about 50/50 on Kozma's claim. I can very easily see her genuinely being responsible, if even just as the one making the calls and sending others to handle it, and I don't doubt that she has the kind of connections and power to make it happen. I also wouldn't doubt that someone capable of getting a bit of foresight (as we already know a few people can) could time things well enough and know where to be to make the claim that they did it, and it would definitely be in her best interest to lean into it and use the moon's destruction to psych out the Trust.
I agree, though, Spahr looks so much like he's either about to breach or take matters into his own hands from within the system. He knows what valor as a principle looks like (since he called Sherman valorous even while he was deep in debt) and may well go seeking his version of valor.
@@OtherKirby I think from a story perspective it probably HAS to be Kozma's fault for the moon. Its either her fault OR it was genuinely just a freak natural disaster which she is taking credit for. I can't really think of many other options, and its a bit late in the story to introduce one i feel like
@OtherKirby I'm wondering if Kozma might actually have been behind the kidnapping of Flight's grandson. Costigan just laid out how that ultimately led to the Trust's purchase of Midst. Did the Baron convince the butler to breach and then confess the information she needed planted in the Upper Trust?
@@cedaremberrRemember the stealth ship at the end of Mica. That was probably Kozma trying to get him out before Spahr showed up. Maybe Kozma even wanted one of the Fleits, since Costigan said he also tried to kidnap Milton Sr.
I hope Spahr will find Phineas and follow his way of backing the f away from the trust. They are good people in a sea of monsters.
The further Spahr spirals, the more I hope Phineas is able to get him outta there.
And who knows - maybe there's more than one kind of fault referenced by the title of this episode; a faultline splitting Spahr from the Trust's hot nonsense.
Oh she is SO evil.
I love her.
Dang, Costigan is not ok.
Oh, so _this_ is why he’s the way he is…
How is there not a SINGLE comment here (at the time I wrote this, don't @ me) about how Costigan looks kind of like Laudna?? I love the art this episode!
Omg yes, it’s the hair
I had to go back and check. The boy from episode 3 of season 1, that was Milton Flight Jr! This poor kid, man. His parents are murdered by the Trust, then he gets kidnapped and has to get saved by the same people, and he thinks they're the good guys! Spahr was there for both events. The Trust really has a stranglehold on the populace of the Highest Light, I'm starting to think that the Fold is probably a better place to live.
Thank you so much for this! I knew we had encountered the boy, but I couldn't remember when.
i love xen's voice so much
Ooh I hope Jonas can find his way to the Baron. The damage she can cause will be worth it. I'm also holding out for Weepe to do something incredibly wild to the Trust. Afterall he did mention before joining that he read the entire book on the Trust in detail....
They've been hinting at Spahr eventually switching sides for a while, but now I that we're almost there I can't stand waiting for next week!
Just binged from season 1. HOW DO PEOPLE WAIT A FULL WEEK BETWEEN EPISODES
"How did you get over it?"
She didn't.
Oh wow seeing Spahr in this position was hard. 😢 I disliked him in the beginning and how he treated Phineas..... now I understand..... and now I pity him.
I hope he breaches. Or maybe goes after "Weepe"
Omg Spahrs old mentor maybe she’ll convince him to breach!
Oh nvm this sucks
She may have done so despite herself - at least I hope she did.
I actually think she did convince him to breach. Just not directly, he's come to that realization himself.
Wow she is a rotten little monster. And she doesnt even have the excuse of the moon blowing up. If it had just been the Phineas incident he could have probably handled it.
Great job with the pruning sounds.
It just keeps getting better and better!
I was just expecting and waiting for her to snap over something anything. I felt it in my gut that it would happen with a big crack. And..it did
Lets goooo Sparh is gonna breach!!! I really hope he reunites with Phinneas, I do think they need to talk and that would be good for them :c
even when I would love them reunited, I'm not sure how he will take, the whole Lark business, she is worth a lot...
@@AnaPradosA Probably, but we are seeing the seed of doubt in the whole Trust bussines, I bet Sparh is gonna be more receptive to other perspectives since the Trust did him so dirty, and even he is realizing how bizarre everyone's behaviour is
Generational traumaaaaa~
It really feels like the designs in the art changes every episode. Spahr was Black and had a big bushy beard last episode and looked like a wrecked. Here he looks like a think brown pretty boy.
It does for the most part. They have several artist create scenes and pick out which ones work best. There have been a couple repeats artist though. The narrators want Midst to be whatever people imagine it as and so there is no set style.
I have to say, Spahr without his beard looks weird wufbwucbwfu 😅
But I love that we can see where the chain comes from 👀 damn, Olga.
The fact that she answered Phineas' lash out saying she killed the Filets because tbey refused to cooperate
I didn't think I would ever like Spahr, but hes a good man, even before this scene I was starting to feel for him. This was such a good episode just solidifying what he was already feeling. Caenum be damned
I love this series so much! I wish there was more like it. ❤
I uh…I think it’s well passed time we put MomMom into a home…DIBS ON NOT BEING THE ONE TO TELL HER!
Okay, the real question - how does the monetary system work in this world? Valor/Caenum beads are not exchanged during transactions, so this is a form of credit within the Trust. These is a monetary system existing separately outside of Trust accounts (since you can PAY your way to get to the upper trust), so I'm confused - the Valor seems like a social structure thing, but more capitalist, where you can just buy it. So if you are working to bay back your dept, you just can get it back with money - so why is everyone obsessed with deeds and not money.
In the highest light, deeds ARE money
It's 'meritocracy' in its purest form
The Trust is its own thing where Valor/Caenum is the only currency. Everyone else uses regular money. Weepe was able to buy his way in because making a donation to the trust would of course be considered "valorous" and the trust needs money because if they want to spread they need to be able to actually interact with other places like Midst where Valor would be worthless. Weepe also got into the upper trust for betraying the Breach route. He wouldn't have had nearly as much valor if not for that. He'd still be valorous but not upper trust valorous. As for why everyone in the trust is obsessed with deeds and not money, I'd chalk that up to just being indoctrinated. It's a cult, and the high ranking people in the cult don't want anything to change because they're high ranking, while the low ranking people have either been so brainwashed their whole lives into thinking they deserve it or they try to escape and are brought back by force like the people from the cabaret. And since they can't leave there's no way for them to actually obtain money to "donate" their way into the upper trust like weepe did
I think that Valor funktions pretty much like normal ,,digital money", however, it is not printed by a central bank, but generated by "good deeds" or rather "deeds that benefit the trust" (For example, you working in your job for a month is beneficial for society and thus generates valor. You being sick for a week that month is a detriment to society, so you'll not only generate no valor for that time, you obtain Caenum).
This is why Imalda believes Weepe to be so important. When he rattet out the breach, he didn't just get payed for it, he literaly generated a ton of new money, and he did so in a way, that created the most possible amount he could. So, When he now buys stuff with it, it will flow into the trust economy, thus benefiting the whole of the collective, which is why Imelda was so adamant in getting him to the highest light, believing he will find ways to generate more Valor/Money for the trust as a whole.
What I'm kinda curious about is how many "paycheck to paychek" trustees there actually are. So far, we've only seen indepted people who are forced to work to pay off their debt, and the "valourous" folk who live in luxury and only think of ways to generate more Valor with "Good deeds" all day.
I’m very worried that Spahr is headed for a tragic end - I’m not sure he’ll get the closure he deserves.
Alternate title "Generational Trauma"
Soooo good 🎉
DISILLUSIONED DISILLUSIONED! yay! Spahr gets some clarity and we can see the direct work of the system on him and all of those in the company.. especially the “family” to “company” pipeline.. yikes…
boy gon breach 👀
Wait, if she's been retired for a while, how does she know about what was revealed in the interrogation?
Does Sphar think Phineas is dead?
The TRUST thinks Phineas is dead. It can be assumed that Spahr agrees with them, but I think he’s still holding out hope.
If he doesn't. It's going to make their reunion, if it happens, that much more awkward. Phineas thinks they abandoned him.
i hate her 🥴 every little thing she said made me so angry for him
I want to see the Vox Machina season 3! I don’t want any more secrets. Plz tell me when they will release this trailer 😭😭😭😭
Brazil loves you and Vox Machina, we are looking forward to this third season with a lot of love in our heart ❤❤❤
I'm a big fan of your work, I'm in love with vox machina, please release the third season soon ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wish Costigan was my boss
✌
I got it in time! I'm early!
When does the third season of Vox Machine come out? Pleaseeee
They said they're not there yet in the latest four sided dive.
Campain pls don't care bout dis you might I dont I've said my peace
Hopefully they give up on Midst soon.
Why are you here if you don't like it???
Thank god its the last season
Why? Season is amazing and keeps quality of storytelling
girl why are you here if you hate it lmao
@redhood1442 cause I'm glad it's over, and have a right to say I don't like things,
You meant to use "cranium", not "caenum" at 4:39. Please fix that at least in the subtitles, because "caenum" means "filth/dirt" and not "head/skull" like I assume you meant to use. Unless he has a bunch of dirt on him or something
Caenum is part of the Trust's system/currency. Essentially if you have caenum, represented by black beads, you're deep in debt.
This is obviously wrong but ohhhhhh that's what caenum means I never even realized
like a commenter replying to you on the teaser short said - you don't go here, do you?
Yeah, do tell the creators of the show what they meant, they are surely wrong, and you're obviously correct even tho you have no idea what the story is about. They meant to use Caenum, it's a part of economic system of this world, and Caenum is the debt of the individual, represented by the black beads they carry on them.