Bobby Knight said that MJ was the best that has ever played this game. He said that in 1984, just before the Olympics. 40 years and 2000 players later, his opinion remains unchanged.
@@akkoismydaughter3573Contrarian Fallacy - to think you’re so super duper special that you have some secret truth that others fail to see. This often means ignoring all evidence to the contrary and sticking with your assumed position regardless of how absurd.
*MJ's Space Jam* 43% on Rotten Tomatoes Won a Grammy for R Kelly's song Nominated for 0 Academy Awards (didn't need a nomination, though) Nominated for 0 Golden Raspberry Awards Made $90,594,962 at the box office in the USA in 1996 Made $140M at the box office internationally in 1996 *LBJ's Space Jam* 25% on Rotten Tomatoes Nominated for 0 Grammy Awards Nominated for 0 Academy Awards Won 3 out of 4 Golden Raspberry Awards Made $70,592,228 at the box office in the USA in 2021 Made $93,100,00 at the box office internationally in 2021 Michael Jordan >>>>> LeBum James
And, MJ has 3 steals titles & 2 Slam Dunk titles. He also lead the playoffs in scoring 8 times and steals 2. And, something that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough, MJ is the only player, other than Wilt, to score over 3000 points in a regular season. He is also one of only five players, in the history ofbthe NBA, who lead the league in scoring and went on to become NBA Champions as well. This has only been achieved 11 times and MJ is responsible for 6 of them. And, he is the only one who was the leading scorer in the playoffs, And Yes, he did it 6 times. as welll. , If i can remember anything else ill let you know.
The only player in history of nba to win season mvp, 1st team all defense, scoring title, nba championship and finals mvp all at once. And did it 4 times.
@phillyphan1346 that's hilarious as the players in the 80s and 90s would butcher the modern day player. Who do they have now? Steph Curry bahahaha, Larry Bird would finish off his ankles
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends. Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ. Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2. Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3. 91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic. 92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half 93-- average 41 points per game highest ever. A higher peak
I grew up watching Mike and now LeBron. Everyone feared Mike... fans, players... everyone. He could take over games like no one in history. On both ends of the court. And didn't complain about getting hit or fouled like LeBron does
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
He mention Jordan 6 championships an 6-0 record but not mentioning his finals opponents an the simple fact Bill Russell has 11 championships. So the mean he the goat.
Even if you take Lebron out the goat conversation Jordan still not the goat considering the fact you still got guys that average way more points had a better out of prime game.
Bang on. Finally someone has articulated what I have always felt. The GOAT is NOT about who plays at a high level the longest. It’s about who was the best at their PEAK. Anybody who has been minimally observant will tell you it’s Jordan. In fact I’d take Kobe, Bird and Magic before LeBron. LeBron is a great player … just dont do him a disservice and compare him to Jordan.
I guess but contextually you can compare eras Lebron played in a physical era people often forget about So that whole narrative of lebron wouldn’t survive is bs or lebron wouldn’t be great in our era is bs now If Jordan 220 6’6 is the best in the era Let’s drop a person mixed with Karl Malone scoring abilities Karl Malone size jordan athleticism magic and bird Iq a legend mentality the playmaking of bird can’t say magic cuz that would be a lie the speed of John wall the strength of Dennis Rodman Let’s be completely honest if we drop lebron in the 80’s he doing the same thing if not more as jordan if he had a score only mentality lebron would avg 35+ if he didn’t care about his teammates not only that but jordan had Scottie pippen at top 5 small forward And Dennis Rodman a top 10 power forward He had multiple all stars on his team and he had the greatest coach and the greatest gm but let’s not discredit jordan he’s great but y’all need to look at it all Look at the game when he surpassed Kareem He asked bronny should he go for it and break the record Like he could’ve been just scoring but he doesn’t play the game that way But if he wanted to he could there’s not one player in the league that can guard bron even now I’d take Miami heat lebron over any player ever except for wilt
I don't know how young u are and whether you play basketball and whether your legs are still under you. But if your legs are, some day, if u will, when u get a chance, call up your boys and play ball with the old hand checking and the wide leg stance with elbow in the back when someone tries to post you. You'll see very quickly how dramatically it will alter how you have to play on offense. My legs are not as great so I can't easily challenge the younger generations so they can get a feel for what they easily downplay. If only there were youth elixirs but alas there is none and so we have to swallow the assumptions of the younger generations. If I was commissioner of the NBA I would make a 7 game stretch out of the year dedicated to having teams play by old defensive rules to give them a greater appreciation and respect for a era gone by. Father time is on your side in this argument and that's a huge fortunate.💯🔥🔥🔥
@@jaulj8 I appreciate the old guys as I said I would take any wilt over any player so it’s not that I’m young I know basketball history but you have to understand that the best era wasn’t the 80’s or 90’s defensively and when jordan won dpoy he wasn’t even guarding the best players on the court was he great offensively absolutely but jordan defensively was overrated. He was a guard he can only guard the guard position while the best defenders were Scottie pippen who could guard every position just how lebron could guard every position but guess who doesn’t have a dpoy Scottie pippen the reasons why jordan The best teams defensively come in at the 2000’s and that’s a fact
@LionellCouplinJr the best defensive years were before Lebron. Lebron only played one season before they took away handchecking, and opened up perimeter scoring. Also Lebron never played in the NBA with no defensive 3 second rule. Most of Lebrons scoring comes at the rim, from his running back drives to the basket. Going to the paint against Hakeem, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutumbo, Patrick Ewing, Young Shaq, David Robinson, the list goes on, Lebron would have a hard time scoring so well at the rim with his limited but effective moveset. Lebrons worst shooting range by far is anything mid range, and he'd be taking alot more shots from there. I think he'd be a better mid range shooter if he played back then, but Lebron just isn't a naturally great shooter for some reason. He's a bad free throw shooter and that's a great indicator of shooting skill. Also, Lebrons less than stellar mental fortitude would hurt him, getting beat up playing against teams like the Pistons and Knicks. That big body of his is resilient but his brain and heart aren't. Lebron would probably be the second best player in the league, and give Jordan more competition than anyone did during the 90s but he'd still fall short
It's insulting to Michael Jordan to mention LeBron with him. LeBron is an all-time great, no doubt but Jordan is the goat. Bottom line, when the game was on the line, Jordan won at the ball in his hands. He wanted the final shot. He will his team to win LeBron shies away from the ball when the game's on the line. LeBron couldn't will his team to win. He had to join someone else's team to win. Goat discussion over
You Jordan boys amaze me. 17/18 Bron, 15/16, 06/07 all years were LeBron willed his teams to positions they weren’t supposed to be. LeBron individually dominated his era for at least 11 years straight
And it’s not cause he played 20 years, other players have to. Not even John Stockton had that many turnovers in 19 seasons. He had 4244. And by his turn over rate he wouldn’t have Gotten to 5,000 in the same time as Lebron has played longer than Stockton. It would take John Stockton 23 seasons to get to 5,000 turnovers.
Jordan is the GOAT, but that's a bad way of thinking. Kobe missed more shots than any other player, Magic had more turnovers per game for his career than any non-active player (Westbrook is the leader as of 2023 but that could change), Wilt and Shaq had by far the most missed free throws in NBA history, and Bill Russell has fewer career points than Mike Bibby. Are those embarrassing statistics to have? Yes. Are they still great players in spite of them? Absolutely.
@@littlebillyjoejimbobdoesn’t mean those players aren’t great, doesn’t mean Lebron is not simply AMAZING. But when you’re talking about the GOAT, you would have to be splitting hairs here comparing the best players to ever do it. So yes, it matters when you wanna be the one and only player at the very top of the pyramid.
Who knows? The guy has amazing genetics and works hard no doubt, and his longevity is great. That said, even with his amazing longevity that doesn't put him at Jordans level. It's impressive, but Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron is a great player and I give him credit, in fact I gave him number of all time, but MJ was just so so unbelievable and next level that he's definitely the GOAT over Lebron and everyone else.
@@jordanmartel2937 Well it's not like he has good genetics for looking young in the face. He performs amazingly well for his age and for 21 years in the league, but if anything he looks older than his age if in his face. Who knows what he takes? I don't want to say he definitely does take things because he works very very hard and has incredible genetics. I mean he may take something, but either way he's behind Jordan. Even with his longevity, that's not nearly enough to get to MJs level. MJ is the GOAT over Lebron even with Lebrons achievements. Ill give Lebron credit for how good he is, but Jordan was so unbelievable and next level that we may never see anything like him ever again.
Its simple. LeBron has had like 7 different seasons where he was on a 3 all star team. I don't care WHO you are playing, if LeBron was really the GOAT he'd have 7-8 rings given the teammates he's had, not 4. People can say whatever they want about LeBron but MJ is the GOAT. No player put in more effort, no player showed up bigger in the big moments like MJ, he's the single biggest difference maker I've ever seen in basketball. In 2015 finals, LeBron averaged over 32 shots per game and shot under 40%, in the 93 finals Jordan shot over 50% taking more amount of shots per game, and he averaged 40ppg against a superior team. When LeBron does something like THAT to push his team to the promise land give me a call, until then i don't wanna hear it. People forget that about MJ, when players take more than 20 shots per game their averages go drastically down, MJ and Jerry West are of the very few that could take a high volume shots without their fg% falling through the floor.
MJ won more rings with more all stars than LeBron. Lebron's competition had more depth and the fact yah forget that shows some of yah stuck in yah ways
@@akkoismydaughter3573 There's only One and Only other All-Star player that Jordan has played with, and that's Scottie Pippen^^. How about LeBron?? Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, AD and so on ^^. Oh, you mean we should include all-star appearances over the course of each player's career, not just when they played together? then lets count them again^^ *Jordan`s teammate appearance : 11 times total (Pippen : 7times, Rodman : 2times, Armstrong : 1times, Grant : 1times) *Lebron`s teammate appearance : 'At Least' 57 times total (because I can`t recall them all... its too many) (Wade : 12times, Bosh :11times, Erving : 8times, Love :5times, Allen :10times, illga : 2 times, Mo-williams : 1times, AD : 8times)
the other thing that no one ever really talks about......how Jordan accomplished this. What I mean the things he did they were like something out of a movie. He has countless performances that defy logic. Like it was written in a script. The shrug game, the flu game, the 55 on return to MSG. the retirement, the I am Back! And many more. This alone cements MJ as the GOAT for all time, even before you look at stats. Not only is Jordan the greatest of all time, but he was also the most entertaining basketball player to ever watch.
We also have to remember they played different positions. And if you look at what Jordan has done at the shooting guard position, his overall play cannot be matched. At the shooting guard position, Jordan is: (In parentheses is LeBron’s ranking at the small forward position) #2 all time in steals per game (James - #11) #1 all-time in blocks per game (James - #18) #1 all-time points per game (James - #2) #4 all-time highest FG% (James - #19) #3 all-time in rebounds per game (James - #13) #6 all-time in assists per game (James - #1) And in every case where Jordan is not #1 in any category above, he is better at every OTHER category than the players above him.
Yes, it's a good thing that he didn't play as a point guard any longer like he did in March-April 89'. 7 Triple doubles in a row, 10 triple doubles from 11 games ( 33,6 P. 10,8 Rebounds, 11,4 Assists on average), 15 Triple doubles in total.
my very favorite story from the MJ mythology is bobby knight advising portland's GM to take jordan and have him play center, draft night '84. you gotta laugh to hear it, but it was probably also completely correct.
This is the biggest point. By virtue of position players are simply more likely to accumulate certain stats, and Jordan was in the top 5 for all but one stat as a SG.
Young people don’t consider that Lebron isn’t playing against defenses, under rules and play style, with the tech that players will be playing with and at in 2045, 2055. He has been doing what he does against the best competition available during his time. That’s the same thing Jordan did. The difference is that Jordan dominated his competition. He didn’t just make it to the finals in a conference that was so weak they had to change the format of the all star game for the first time in history.
LeBron having his super long double figure streak in the regular season but at the same having multiple single point performances in the playoffs says a lot.
I get it. Kobe is a better player than -Lebron- , but Mike vs Kobe would be an obvious loss for Kobe in everybody's eyes (except for Kobe fans). Like I said Kobe *is definitely* better than -Lebron- is. The only reason the -Lebron- debate holds any water is because he is an all time great, whose numbers _approaches" Jordan's numbers, while playing at a time when his fans get to see him play while never have seen Mike play while his game completely differs. But Kobe (who I got ranked #3 behind Jordan, and Kareem), would always lose the argument because he plays __*_just like_* Jordan, while coming up short in almost every accomplishment and stat. When two people do the same thing, the one with the better numbers automatically wins. But when two people do different things, the debate can go back and forth because of the _"what ifs"._ The fact of the matter is that -Lebron- is not even close to Jordan (and behind Kobe). It's only a debate because 1) he's the greatest player that his fans have ever seen play, and 2) ESPN pushes the narrative so they have something to talk about.
Lol Kobe doesn’t come close. Fanboys/casuals try to compare them because Kobe patterned his game after Mike but when you really get into the specifics only Kobe Stans think it’s worth comparing. Just one example- Jordan scored 50 in the playoffs 7 times Kobe once. He’s praised so much for his scoring but couldn’t drop more than 1 50 piece? Iverson and Vince have one of those. Also check out his 2004 Pistons series and then say with a straight face you can imagine prime Jordan playing like that in the FINALS.
@@Ues2DC Kobe did pattern his game off Mike, and Mike gave Kobe tips personally on parts of the game and certain shots early on on his career, which Kobe talked about. Jordan respected Kobe a lot and tried to take him under his wing a little bit. That said, Kobe was amazing, but both Jordan and Lebron are both better than Kobe by a good amount.
there isnt a single major sport in this world where you can call the "Goat" to a player that has a loosing record on Chanpionships of the sport they play at. simple.
@@Shockkings0714 Except the competition was there. And the Bulls had a harder path through the playoffs than any of Lebron's rings. You can try and deny the GOAT all you want, but the truth doesn't care about your feelings.
No team Jordan played in the finals was better than those warriors teams or that spurs team. I don't care about the road to the finals as that's not what this convo is about. We are talking strictly finals@@JustinStrife
Yes it’s really is he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
Mj the goat just for the simple fact he did it for the team that drafted him and had a great team built around him lebron went to be on basically a super team and then came back to Cleveland because how they felt about him leaving
LeBron fanboys make excuses for the opponent, but the fact is this. Jordan's opponent`s best player were better rank at MVP race each season than Lebron`s. '91 Magic : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP) '92 Drexler : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP) '93 Barkley : MVP (Jordan ranked 3rd) '96 Payton: Ranked 6th (Jordan was the MVP) '97 Malone: MVP (Jordan Ranked 2nd) '98 Malone : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP) < MVP ranked average for opposing aces over 6 years: 2.33 // Jordan average over 6 years: 1.5 > ======================================= '07 Duncan: Ranked 4th (Lebron was 5th) '11 Nowitchiki : Ranked 6th (Lebron was 3rd) '12 Durant : Ranked 2nd (Lebron was the MVP) '13 Parker : Ranked 6th (Lebron was the MVP) '14 Duncan : Ranked 12th (Lebron was 2nd) '15 Curry: MVP (Lebron was 3rd) '16 Curry: MVP (Lebron was 3rd) '17 Curry: Ranked 6th (Lebron was 4th) '18 Durant: Ranked 7th (Lebron was 2nd) '20 Butler: Ranked 11th (Lebron was 2nd) < MVP ranked average for opposing aces over 10 years : 5.6 // 10-year average for Lebron: 2.6 ===================================== Summarize 1. During the Finals, Lebron's opponent's MVP ranking(5.6) was lower than Jordan's opponent's(2.33). 2. Conversely, Jordan's MVP ranking(1.5) during the Finals is higher than Lebron`s ranking(2.6). 3. Jordan was stronger than LeBron in the Finals, faced tougher opponents, and still won more games.
@@phillyphan1346 Phoenix Suns, Utah Jazz were his most challenging opponents. The warriors were taken to 7 games by Houston without Chris Paul in games 6 and 7. LeBron, despite facing that team twice, could only get 1 game. He was swept also. He should've at least been able to get to 7 games like Houston, otherwise you're saying that Clint Capella, Chris Paul and Harden are better than Lebron, Kyrie and Love.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl Only a Jordashian would argue the 2017 & 2018 Warriors were not the greatest team ever assembled, against all analytics and statistics which undoubtedly point to them as so. Not even worth a dignified answer. Suns had 1 player in Barkley while the Jazz had two and no one else while the Bulls had a better roster and were favored by Vegas in both. Clown show
@@phillyphan1346 Haha LeBron fanboys' flawed logic again ^^. The 2014 Spurs, 2017,2018 Warriors, and other teams that were strong in their era were like Chicago in the 90s with Jordan. The same opponent team that the LeBron fanboys were making excuses for not beating because too strong was Jordan's Chicago^^ in 90s standard. Not because they were a super team, but because they had Jordan^^. According to ELO rankings, 95-96 Chicago is stronger than those teams^^. You know what? The 2014 Spurs and the 2017 and 2018 Warriors are strong teams, yes, but they had to fight their way up through the Western Conference, going all the way to Game 7, etc. The easiest teams to beat by champion in the playoffs that year were Miami and Cleveland^^ Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that LeBron's team would have lost to any team in the West that made the playoffs, not just those two teams. Please don't give me the excuse that you lost because the other team was stronger^^. We're not criticizing LeBron because he lost to those teams, we're criticizing him because he lost to them easier than the first round teams in the West.^^
@@phillyphan1346 How many times has LeBron's team lost the easiest game to the championship team that year? Let's count. 2007, 2014, 2018, 2020. 4 times in total. 2017, yeah, they were better than a first round Western Conference opponent, but not better than a second round Western Conference team. What about 2011? they lost despite having more power ranking because LeBron played the worst game ever^^.
I've never waivered in my opinion about Jordan vs. James. Jordan's misstep... his baseball career. There's no question... he would have added to the pile had he continued in the NBA.
Jordan gets a pass on this because his father got murdered and Jordan stepped back from the NBA. Many think it was organized crime that made him get out the NBA. Gambling!
Or not. I'm an MJ fan, but it is mentally tiring to win back to back championships, even more so a threepeat or four. The year off probably helped him win 3 more championships with that year off as rest.
@@stanleyball2615 I have heard that theory. I don't think it's true. Definitely not fully true with the murder of his dad and what not, but there was probably things MJ was involved with they didn't want to talk about. MJ did have a gambling problem at one time, and that's not debatable, it was a fact.
Great video, I love the fact you talked about football as well about the longevity argument, you made awesome points! Still a lot of people really don''t want to agree or can't (some media personality some money reason maybe?) acknowledge the realty, to me was already pretty obvious after the first 9 season of LeBron, I'm a great MJ fan but if LeBron could have accomplished what MJ did in his first 9 years I would have no problem in saying MJ was the second best player, but MJ from 84 to 93 never missed the playoffs and even after missing almost all his second season he was able to win 7 scoring titles, become the only player with Wilt to score more that 3000 pts in one season while winning 3 league MVPs a 3 peat + finals MVP, managing to dwarf any ppg record in the playoffs and in the finals also leading the league 3 times in steals plus becoming defensive player of the year, as much as LeBron's first 9 seasons were great, his accomplishments were not nearly as impressive as MJ's so to me LeBron was already disqualified from that argument. LeBron will forever be remembered as the most consistent player in NBA history thanks to his longevity but never ever the Goat.
some disrespect towards Karl Malone's game, he had 2 league MVP's, 3 Finals appearances, was probably the second or third best player in the 1990's. So Karl is a borderline top 10 player, easily a top 15-20. He is a top 10 player all time in scoring and rebounding while having the 13th best PPG in NBA history and shooting over 50% for his career.
But the thing is no one puts Malone in the top 10 lol. If he had at least 3 rings he would be easily be in the top 10 or 5. That’s why having rings is important.
@@easylife6348 his overall individual stats and awards, Karl Malone is a worthy top 10 player even without a ring. Maybe the best player with no ring. Reason nowadays he isn't mentioned is bc everyone now knows he is a deadbeat dad and knocked up an underage girl. In the 1990's he was mentioned with MJ, Hakeem, etc as the best player of that decade. He even beat MJ for a MVP award where MJ was the runner up when MJ had 5 MVP's at that point.
It's 2 main things: - the game-stoppages from Karl throwing elbows. He had a rep for putting dudes in the hospital, and you will find videos on YT _only about_ Malone throwing elbows. - the "fathering a child with a 13-year old" scandal that keeps people from wanting to remember Mailman.
@@shaft9000 yes, but the game was officiated differently then. Malone was playing within what the refs would allow. He is a borderline top 10 all time player, but scandals have people pretending he never existed. Not saying he is a good person, but one of the greats in hoops history. Best player to never win a ring.
when LB has less accolades, the bronsexual fans said the competition is fierce these days. IMO, just an excuse for LB's poor ability to win and aspire the game spectators.
@@jkingdom3 ok if you're saying MJ is the best despite Bill having more rings then you're essentially saying rings dont matter!! which therefore debunks the whole idea that longevity doesnt matter too!! which means it opens the flood gates when it comes to other key stats that too lazy to hoop never even mentioned simply cuz he knew hed have to give enough checks to LeBron to where hed have to admit he was wrong and give the goat title to him!!! exactly too lazy to hoop only mentioned what Jordan led in and didnt bring up what bron led in!! every goat video ive seen where they cover every topic and give U the whole story rather then just part came to the conclusion that brons the goat therefore this video is invalid!! its exactly like fox or msnbc news where they only give U one side of things!!
@@EBKJBib Sorry, I cannot engage any more. Most people who have seen both Jordan and LeBron will say it's Jordan BY FAR. Only people who have not watched 80s/90s NBA think it's LeBron. Ultimately, I WAS THERE. I SAW. No offense, but you look no older than 20... so how can you know???
11 seasons, he ended his career really in 98, in 86 he played only 18 games, 22 min per game, in 95 he played 17 games after coming back from retirement of 1.5 half seasons without touching the ball.
@@rankaratThat's right, 6 titles in 11 years. No one but Lebron fans say he went to the Wizards, one of the worst teams at the time, to win rings. He wanted to at least reach the playoffs, but that was a shame with the team. And yes, he just wanted to play and needed some incentive. When it comes to Lebron, 1 title in 11 years with the Cavs, 4/10 as one of the worst Finals win rates in NBA history. I'd rather bring Russell into the goat debate than Leflop. Sry Goats have always built a dynasty like Jordan did with a team that wasn't even mediocre when he arrived. The much more rigid positions back then do the rest. Tested when Jordan played as pointguard in March-April 89'. 7 triple doubles on sequence, 10 tr. d. from 11 games (33.6 p. 10.8 rebounds, 11.4 assists on average), 15 triple doubles in total which is just crazy. If you just extrapolate that over a few seasons and then Lebron, which is called a super all-rounder... with his 107 triple doubles in 20 years, the debate becomes even more ridiculous. Jordan was an alien.
It's ironic, one player built the game up to levels we've never seen. The other has torn it down. The league is unwatchable now. Lebron needs to retire.
If you the Goat 🐐 and on the Miami Heat roster, you win 4 straight titles and cement your legacy, what you don’t do is have book end loses to other Top 75 players in the twilight of their careers, Dirk and Tim 😮 Jordan stopped HOFers, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Miller etc and if he doesn’t go to play baseball ⚾️ I can honestly say without 🧢 that Hakeem and Jet probably wouldn’t have 2 and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that MJ would have won 8 straight, now compared to LeBron going to 8 straight Finals and only winning 3 😮 🤷🏾♂️Goatship denied 🙅🏾♂️
The only thing annoying about the debate is how fans of both players say that it isn’t worth having. Yes it is. LeBron has reached a stratosphere only Kareem and MJ are in. I don’t personally think he’s leapfrogged Jordan but his resume so far and his continued play at almost 39 is wild
Like. All Bron has is stats. And he’s taking 2 NBA careers worth of time to get them. He hasn’t even been in the top 10 of players in terms of actual ability for probably 3-4 years at this point. He cherry picks a large percentage of his points, often times being the reason for a turn over-fast break and just not running back for D. Then he gets the cross court for an open dunk to retaliate because the other 9 players in the game were on the other side of the court playing basketball. Dude plays half the game. And only plays in half the games. Plus his mentality towards the ‘GOAT’ mantra of, “I’ve already earned it. I’m entitled to it.” That’s just not what the greatest does. Is he one of the most gifted athletes ever? Absolutely. But the greatest ever isn’t just the best athlete, there’s a mindset attached to true greatness that Bron just doesn’t have.
In games 3 & 6 of the 1993 Eastern Conf. Finals Jordan was 11-42 (26%) while the rest of the Bulls players shot 53-93 (57%) and the Bulls won both of those games even though Jordan played like shit. Jordan had WAY MORE help than people like to acknowledge. I'm team LeBron when it comes to the GOAT debate.
Michael Jordan is above everybody plain and simple Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, KD, Curry are closer to each other than Jordan
We should be debating if Bron was better than Jerry West. Imagine what West would do w today's rules and not having to dribble from the top of the ball like they did back then. Even big O would be insane in today's game
@@epictronologs1793Let’s see ur dumbass do so much better against the super stacked 60s Celtics rosters. If y’all love to claim Lebron has no help in this era, you guys would’ve want to off yourself if he played against bill Russell’s Celtics.
@@shaft9000 You forgot to mention that he came back from a 3-1 deficit against one of the greatest regular season teams of all time. Jerry west went against a weak new york knicks in the finals and shot 3/15 (20%) in game 1, 6/21 (28.6%) in game 2, and averaged an impressive 32.5% FG percentage in his finals series against them, the 10th lowest FG percentage by an all star in the finals in NBA history, he got carried. Against real competition like the celtics, he disappeared. Now tell me without bias which ring was more impressive.
Honestly the only people I ever see praising Lebron over Jordan, are all guys under 30 years old and weren’t even alive during the era of the Bad Boys Pistons, or the Showtime Lakers. You just cannot be in a GOAT debate with people who haven’t lived in the era when the original greats played. Statistics alone don’t show greatness.. it’s a combination of stats, competitiveness, clutch plays, Championship WINS versus Loses, *fear factor* (Jordan’s Killer instincts), and the way he changed the game. The NBA has changed since the one and only MJ, and teams like the 1989 and 1990 Detroit Pistons had to actually invent new rules to try and take Jordan down, because he was a team killer.. an ASSASSIN. So they invented “The Jordan Rules”, which consisted of fouling the shit out of him, knocking him down, and beating him up physically. You will never find a book called “The Lebron Rules”, because the league is different now and those types of fouls and physicality isn’t even allowed anymore. Lebron is playing in a much weaker league that is less physical. Jordan had to play against the most Notorious flagrant foul team of all time in the Pistons, and also the New York Knicks in the 90’s, and he beat the crap out of them several times after those first two losses to the Pistons in the playoffs in 89’ and 90’. Jordan won every single championship he played in consecutively after that with the Bulls, on the same team he came in with. He didn’t sell out and go to another team to join other great players. He stayed with his squad, even after his father died and he retired in 94’ and 95’.. and came back to Chicago with completely different role player guys beside Scottie Pippen, and still won three more in a row. Jordan no doubt would have won those two championships in those two years, had he not retired. But the fact that he took two years to play a completely different sport and mourn the loss of his father, then come back and win like he didn’t even take a break, is a feat that nobody has ever done in any sport. Before Michael Air Jordan came to the league, it was ALL about the big man Center game. Your best players were always the big man types like Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Walton, Ralph Sampson, etc.. that’s why Hakeem Olajuwon was the #1 pick in the draft by Houston and Jordan was #3 in 1984. After Jordan started dominating and winning championships, every player wanted to “Be like Mike”, and every team wanted a Michael Jordan TYPE of player. So every star player that came AFTER Michael Jordan, had imitated HIS game to a point where everyone was doing fade away jump shots, driving to the basket with ferocity, shooting three pointers, doing incredible dunks, and wearing air Jordan sneakers. The superstar signing Mega Million dollar shoe deals all came from the original Michael Jordan and Nike deal. Michael changed the face of the game, and inspired everyone else to be great after him. Look at Kobe Bryant.. he is literally Michael Jordan in a different body with younger legs. Same killer instinct and same competitive nature, literally same looking jump shot and similar drive moves to the basket. No other NBA players game has been imitated like Michael Jordan’s. Without Michael Jordan, we would have never seen a Kobe Bryant, or Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dwayne Wade, Stephen Curry, or yes even Lebron James. All of these men are who they are BECAUSE of his Airness, Michael Jordan. Here’s a video which shows some of what I speak of, outside of stats: ruclips.net/video/yiKCnvO09q8/видео.htmlsi=jLBJhWv0z5mZYAhq Also, nobody talks about defense in these debates. Lebron is a phenomenal offensive player and he is the greatest force to ever drive to the basket and dominate as a power forward. But Lebron isn’t a great Defensive player like Jordan was. Jordan won Defensive Player of the year once, and made the NBA’s All Defensive Team several years in a row, on top of all of his scoring titles and championships. This right here is what separates Jordan from Lebron, and you cannot bring any argument for Lebron to compare. Further more, when you ask the actual NBA players who played with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, AND Lebron James.. and 100% of these NBA players would pick Michael Jordan over Lebron in a GOAT debate. I trust NBA players who played against them for this debate y’all. ruclips.net/video/SCk7pm8zV4k/видео.htmlsi=uGYstt_u9Dgee2tk I am 46 and I have seen them all play since the Showtime Lakers and George Gervin days in San Antonio. I grew up with this game and played in high school. In the 80’s and 90’s, Michael Jordan was GOD, and literally everyone wanted to be like Mike. Every baller imitated his moves. Everyone to this day wears his clothes, including Lebron James himself, who wears Jordan’s jersey number. Lebron desperately wants to be like Mike, and certainly would like to be the “King” of basketball.. So I’ll give Lebron the King status, but MJ will always be a basketball GOD. Another point that must be spoken about, which every Lebron fan hates to consider, is Lebron James’s first ten seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers. In that time he went to the NBA Finals only one time, and got SWEPT by my San Antonio Spurs in 2007. Then he decided to leave his team and join a superstar team in Miami, and he lost in the Finals to my second favorite team the Dallas Mavericks in 2011. That’s the first 10 years of Lebrons total career. Then, after he finally won his first two titles with Miami, he lost again to my Veteran San Antonio Spurs in 2014, blowing the Miami Heat Out 4 games to 1. After that debacle, it was the new era dynasty team Golden State Warriors that dethroned him three times, in embarrassing fashion 2015, 2017 (4 games to 1), and again in 2018 (SWEPT), after he finally got one more Championship back in Cleveland. Lebrons entire first half of his career was a total bust, and you absolutely have to count those first years and all of those championship loses in this debate argument. Lebron James’s NBA Finals record will always be the Achilles heal of his Legacy. Can’t ignore this, and you will never be able to say the same about the Emperor Michael Jordan, Ever. MJ won every championship he played in, and on top of that, he single handedly was the “Title Robber” of some of the greatest basketball players to ever play in the NBA, including Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Dan Majerle, Patrick Ewing, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Sam Bowie, Anthony Hardaway, Chris Mullen, Alonzo Morning, and Christian Latener, all of which are Hall of Fame players (except Christian). Lebron never did anything like that to anyone. www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/nba-reviewing-lebron-james-s-six-nba-finals-losses-ss And for those who want to talk Stats and facts only, well here’s some more from the Greatest of All Time that you have never considered in the GOAT debate, compliments of Mr. Michael Air Jordan. This isn’t even a debate for those who know the FULL stats and facts. ruclips.net/video/xyngBl-C58w/видео.htmlsi=w5VErl7ZRhBOP3FN For the Advanced Stats that people seek to forget about MJ, and Lebron fans certainly never consider.. this is the one breakdown that 100% solidifies Michael Jordan’s GOAT status forever, and Lebron James will never catch him with his longevity argument. ruclips.net/video/_33SbsskbPU/видео.htmlsi=me47YyG7WCedxGSx And lastly, I want all of you Lebron James fans to do me a favor.. Look down at your feet right now and be honest with me.. You are wearing a pair of AIR JORDANS on your feet right now aren’t you? Or you have at least three pairs of Air Jordan’s in your closet. That is all I want to say. The Acronym GOAT 🐐 stands for Greatest of All Time, and that first word Great comes from many factors. Never forget the man who paved the way for all the smaller and medium sized players to have the spotlight. Lebron has achieved many great feats, and is now even a Billionaire (Mike was the first sports mega Billionaire).. But nobody will ever compare to the one and only Legendary Michael Jordan.
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
@@frankdobs Kobe beat more 50+W teams than anybody in the post-season And only Jordan won more back 2 back titles than Kobe, post-merger And Shaq couldn't win more than one chip without Kobe, while needing the #2 SG in the league to do it. In contrast - Kobe repeated b2b with Pau Gasol who's greatest success was going 0-16 in the playoffs before becoming a Laker.
Nobody with any sort of basketball knowledge thinks LeBron James is better than MJ. I have noticed there are a few types of individuals who think LBJ is better. 1) Kids who know basketball but are influenced by social media, PR stunts and peer-pressure 2) Kids who don't know basketball but are influenced by social media, PR stunts and peer-pressure 3) Ex-pros who are small-minded and/or jealous, like Laimbeer or Isiah Thomas 4) Degenerate journalists like Nick Wright who know such opinion will make their lame show more watchable and are probably affiliated or somehow influenced by the James PR machine 5) Journalists who know that as long as the debate goes on, they will have something to talk about on their shows. I'd say the success of Skip and Shannon was based in large part on this point. 6) Gen pop 1: This is my impression and is a bit far-fetched and will sound like a layman's psychological take: Mostly frustrated people without talent. In LBJ they recognise the machine they could be with work ethic, aggression and attitude. Jordan is a god-like creature who destroys their worldview with his finesse, beauty and artistry, so he must be removed, like Jesus. Gen Pop 2: People who are into advanced stats, and by opting for LeBron they are showing they are different and more knowledgeable than the average basketball fan who, they think, only says Jordan cause it's the thing to say. 7) LeBron James. If he hadn't mentioned it, or had gone out and said MJ is the GOAT, I seriously don't think it would be a debate. He keeps it running. Reminds me of that easy girl cheaply flirting over the table and losing value every time she looks at you.
well said...but Mickey mouse ring/championship isn't the same as an 82 season + PO + Finals..so leflop has 3.5 champions..not 4...ALL the stats put MJ as the BEST EVER!!....but simply put...MJ accomplished more in less time than leflop did with his superteams..."all hail the real KING MJ!!"
Just once I would like to see a neutral video on this topic only seeing old heads and people in there mid 20s cry about who’s better. Both players are great and both should be appreciated for what they gave to the sport
Neutrality is not saying "Both LeBron and MJ are good and we shouldn't compare them", being neutral is being objective while comparing them. If this video was about Larry Bird, Kevin Durant, and LeBron being equally great, you wouldn't be calling the video neutral.
What MJ did was phenomenal, no question, but I think he had it easier than LeBron during his career. LeBron had to face tougher competition than MJ while not having the pieces the Warriors had. Plus, LeBron was not a score first guy like Jordan. Michael Jordan was a shoot first, ask questions later type of player. Was MJ a ball hog, 100% yes, but was it more out of a desire to win rather than just stat padding. However, I believe LeBron is the GOAT because of not just his longevity but his versatility. Yes, MJ was a more successful player, no question. His heart, determination, and desire to win are unrivaled by anyone in NBA history, but LeBron is the type of player who can beat his opponents in multiple different ways. In my opinion, LeBron is the GOAT not just because of his success but the ways he found that success.
Nah, dawg. You think Lebron had tougher competition? 😂😂 Jordan played in the toughest era, defense wise. Guys would literally knocked him down over and over. Defense back then was ruthless, 80% of today's NBA stars would cripple back then.
I’ll never believe this solely for one reason. They played in two eras which is way too difficult to compare. people have won more rings, mvps, and defensive titles than both of them. Also voter fatigue has become a thing as of late as well as the overall skill of the average player. Genuinely, Jordan is one of a kind but SGA puts up similar stats as of lately and if he continues does that make him the goat? No cause there’s so much other competition that makes everything so much harder and Lebron always evolves to fit the game to the best of his ability. I think reasonably they’re both goats of their eras but you can’t truly compare two people of two different times. (Also Jordan had the TEAM OAT before the GSW so obviously he’d win multiple with them… Lebron beat the best team in the history of the NBA which inflates his stats imo)
This is some really hard hitting analysis. Wow. Lebron only scored 20 with 8 assists in a single finals game!? He must be the worst player we've ever seen!
Notice how LeFans react to facts about anyone who is better than Lebron lol. They go the other way off the deep,end just like Rich Paul. So, Lebron is not the goat at all so that them means he is trash lololol. He may be top 10 or he may not be in many peoples eyes so then he is trash lolol. The narcissism he has somehow transfers to his fans. He is one of the greats but he and his emo fans will not accept the facts. There are a few players better than him. It’s ok. He is still one of the best on offense that ever did it. Not so much defensively. Half his career he only plays offense and plays little to zero defense as the video evidence clearly shows. Now isn’t it highly disrespectful to the historically better players on both ends, to rank him higher than them when Lebron hasn’t given max effort on full court like they did? I have seen alarming video proof of how much load management Lebron does in game. It’s atrocious. Goats don’t do that.
Lebron Stans do a few things that make them insufferable: If you don’t think he’s GOAT you’re disrespecting him/ think he sucks. Try to diminish Jordan’s accomplishments to boost him. Jordan fans don’t typically do that first unless Lebron fans do. Why? Because they don’t need to. They can just put Jordan’s vs his and leave it at that. However Lebron Stans can’t make the case for him without denigrating Jordan and so Jordan fans point out his flaws. Constantly lie/misrepresent Jordan’s career - he didn’t win for first 7 years. Not taking into account the team he has vs level of competition at the time. How tf was he going to beat Boston with that squad. He did win DOPY MVP Rookie of the year multiple scoring/steals titles in those years. Overrating Pip who was a great player but they pretend he was Barkley Shaq Ewing Robinson Olajuwon etc. They also don’t know history so don’t understand how instrumental Jordan was to his development.
@@Ues2DC All Jordashians diminish players of today. Talk about competition MJ faced in his early years but not the wide gap in talent between MJ Finals opponents and LBJ's. Talk about overrating Pippen, who was 3rd in MVP voting without MJ and averaged & had more assists, rebounds, blocks and steals than MJ over their 6 playoff runs while guarding the other teams best player. It is just a fact players today are more skilled and athletic than the 90's which was 30 years ago. To argue against this means you dont know basketball.
Greatness in an athletic sport has so much to do with mentality. If you give up or disappear just once, your already below Jordan. Amazes me how many excuses I've heard for lebrons lowlights. Bron somehow "passing Jordan" is a ship that sailed a long long time ago.. but these fans just can't face it
The scoring title debate is always hilarious. Bron avg 30ppg at 38. Ppl acting like bron aint avg 27ppg on 4 field goals less and 2 more asists than Jordans 30ppg lol How many seasons did Jordan play where 8 players were avg 30ppg? How many finals against 4hof+ Jordans dpoty was highway robbery since olajuwon beat him in every meaningful defensive stats and adv stats lol.
Mj led Hakeem (and the league) in steals, stl%, and defensive box plus minus. With them being basically tied in defensive win shares. Not exactly “highway robbery”
@@andrewcook1246 A C averaged more steals than Hakeem 5 years later (DRob), another G did not finish top 2 in def win shares (minus jordan a few years later) until 30 seasons later (BSims). So one could argue Jordans def win share that season was more rare than hakeems steals. Though to be fair only 1 other center has avgd over 2 stls. Nonetheless, Jordan and Hakeem were basiclly tied (6.3 to 6.1) in def win shares that season. Its not like when DRob came first in def win shares (90/91) with 7.6 and Hakeem was 2nd 5.7. I'm not saying Hakeem didnt have the stats to win the award, im only taking issue with mj winning it as being extremely unfair.
@@SelectaMedia Robinson did so once, avg 2+stls, Hakeem 5x. Robinson wasn't even in the league at that time I believe. Mike had a helluva season for a G, but not worth the DPOTY unless you go to the feelgood angle. Hakeem had him in 2/3 def stats and the two main adv def stats. Plus as a C he was the defensive anchor of his team. And on the feelgood aspect. They sure are picky with it as Hakeem once as a C avg 200stls and 280blks in a season (1st and only player to do so) and didn't even win DPOTY that season. I'd say DPOTY is the mos inconsistent award along with def teams and I take them with the most grains of salt. Tim Duncan never winning the award is a travesty that the league had 15 years to correct and never did.
Lebron's 30 don't count bro. He did it in a team that gave him all the shots to take the scoring record, first, also was a mediocre team (that I was happy to see progressing from that mediocrity). As Barkley said, it is easier to have good stats on not so good teams. Also this era have you seen how many put up monster stats as if it is a normal thing? Lebron's 30 points would be 20-22 comparatively and allowing for inflation due to rule changes. Those fuckers don't even whistle travelling anymore!!! Most sidesteps are travelling... Over the rant, he does remain a very good player for his age even more so. You can find how many seasons Jordan played vs whoever you want but the point is this: In an era where the pace was slower, points less and efficiency was way harder to be achieved due to different rules, systems, coaches and harder players/playing the man averaged more points even compared to today's playground basketball. I am not saying that the talent isn't there with modern players, they are monsters. The reference goes to what the NBA wants to see in order to get views, and it is records being broken and they push for it. And the older players that retain those records are the greater ones. You can compare Kevin Love's stats to Larry Bird, they are very close. Are they the same quality players, for their careers? No. The impact Bird had was immeasurable. By the way you'd be suprised that neither Wilt nor Jordan hold the ppg average records worldwide or most points scored...There are amazing players all over the world> Different conditions mean they cannot be compared. Lebron is good but to me he is not even top three to be honest.
All the old heads will say MJ. In 20 years the consensus opinion will be LeBron. I doubt in the 2040s sports media will move on from Jordan as Bron will be retired and probably own a team while the talking heads go on about Bronny and Bryce.
Idk man, kids in the future are gonna see that MJ has way more accolades, more mvps, more championships, more finals mvps, a DPOY 6-0 finals record vs 4-10 not caring about any context and they gonna conclude that MJs was the better player.
@@jarlbalgruuf7701on paper they're not wrong. It just feels generational. Those who grew up on Jordan say MJ. You can't change Kobe fans minds, you can't change LeBron fans minds when most of the fans of his you argue with online these days were born when he was in Miami
Doubt it. If it hasn't happened already it won't. Take Gretzky and Jordan, both guys were considered GOATs in the middle of their career. With LeBron it's always "it's gonna happen eventually but he's not there yet". They said the same thing about Peyton Manning but it wasn't Manning, it was Brady, the man who won 7 rings. Michael, his 6 rings and 6 final MVPs will always keep him ahead of James. Until LeBron can match that he has no chance. Here's the problem with James; all you can do is make excuses as to why he didn't do that. You can bring up eras, you can say MJ played against plumbers where LBJ played against all time greats, whatever horseshit you wanna bring up doesn't change the fact MJ was the bigger star and MJ just flat out accomplished more in less time. Just like Manning and Aaron Rodgers it's excuses and that's just enough to be the GOAT. GOATs produce results, not excuses.
not really, more contact was allowed and in the 1990's scoring was down significantly due to how much contact was allowed by defenders by the officiating. Also lets say you are right (you are not), MJ was still the scoring leader 10 times often with over 30 PPG. But not many guys back then were getting 30 PPG. It was usually just MJ. In todays game you might see a few guys do it in any given season.
You get a LIKE for that title. Any person who reads that title and thinks that LeBron comes out on top should stop watching basketball and take up another hobby, such as knitting or something else that does not include some form of competition.
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
In this era where the average points per game for teams is 25 more points in a game, there is no way you compare points scored when MJ points more meaningful. In the cupcake defense league where both teams in the all star game scores 200 points and it is offensive to play defensive you get the point. Flopping is rampant and carrying the ball is considered a good move and is called “breaking an ankle”. Finally, hand checking was the final nail in the coffin in the Harlem globetrotter type of league
Yup.. I would love to see stats going by % per game rather then total points per game. I bet on average MJ scored 35-40% of all points per game. He even had several games where he was over 50% of all points.
As a hockey fan, the difference I see with basketball and hockey is that there are more specialties/roles in the game. I think in the older eras of basketball (mid '90s and before) to be considered an all-star you have to know fundamentals in all areas and excel at one other. Today the competition seems to be much greater and thus the disparity between good and all-star caliber players in wide. It's fair to say-and it's taken from hockey when McDavid gets compared to Gretzky- Lebron is the most evolved player. He can quite literally play every positon, in every era and maintain a top 5 status for the same amount of time. Not to say Jordan can't either. The main issue with Jordan is he didn't play enough and it plays to his advantage. The efficiency of his career is redonkulous, but considering that Lebron is remotely close (27ppg for Lebron and 30ppg for Jordan sticks out) the other numbers favor Lebron more, especially in a time where players are much better and defending seems to be about hoping the opposition misses. Is Jordan the greatest? He could be. I look at Bobby Orr as someone who revolutionized the game of hockey and at the time *he* was the most evolved player. Now Lebron years later, in a more specialized and skillful era, he's the most evolved. The question I want to ask is if having 2 less rings is significant enough that there's no chance? Because the other argument for Lebron over Jordan is teammates. Jordan played with the same teammates who enabled his playstyle for basically his whole career. Lebron for almost half of his career carried teams, he went to a relatively under accomplished "dynasty team" team with the heat for only 4 years, then had Kyrie and Davis take the other half of the load for the last two chips. I think a swiss army knife is more valuable than a hammer, meaning the swiss knife may not be the best tools to have, but they are available. The hammer excels at driving nails and removing nails, but that's about it.
Jordan's drive and intensity were second to none. His determination became the inspiration of millions who wanted to play the game. That is his biggest stat. That is why he is the greatest.
To put not only LeBron ( who is good player , but nothing more than that compare to all the great ones )but any player of any era in the same sentence with the MJ, would be delusional…Mildly expressed…..They 're all good, but MJ is World heritage…The man played in his own league, let alone impact he made on the sport of basketball….Btw,LeBron is playing it’s 20 ish session and got ( after choosing and picking his teammates) 4 rings….Come on kids don’t be lazy , get busy on YT and educate yourselves by watching some MJ games….
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Bobby Knight said that MJ was the best that has ever played this game. He said that in 1984, just before the Olympics. 40 years and 2000 players later, his opinion remains unchanged.
Female opinions don't count especially about sports
What’s crazy is he just passed away 8 days ago
Bandwagon fallacy... To think because so many people believe something is true that means it is
@@akkoismydaughter3573Contrarian Fallacy - to think you’re so super duper special that you have some secret truth that others fail to see. This often means ignoring all evidence to the contrary and sticking with your assumed position regardless of how absurd.
@@Ues2DC🗣️THANK Y👤U , MAN . REAL TALK .>🎤 🏀🗑️
Space Jam 2 (A New Legacy) is just another reason why Michael Jordan is better than lebron
Yup☠️
Uh what
@@Chris-pg7qg uh yeah
*MJ's Space Jam*
43% on Rotten Tomatoes
Won a Grammy for R Kelly's song
Nominated for 0 Academy Awards (didn't need a nomination, though)
Nominated for 0 Golden Raspberry Awards
Made $90,594,962 at the box office in the USA in 1996
Made $140M at the box office internationally in 1996
*LBJ's Space Jam*
25% on Rotten Tomatoes
Nominated for 0 Grammy Awards
Nominated for 0 Academy Awards
Won 3 out of 4 Golden Raspberry Awards
Made $70,592,228 at the box office in the USA in 2021
Made $93,100,00 at the box office internationally in 2021
Michael Jordan >>>>> LeBum James
Yep.
And, MJ has 3 steals titles & 2 Slam Dunk titles.
He also lead the playoffs in scoring 8 times and steals 2.
And, something that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough, MJ is the only player, other than Wilt, to score over 3000 points in a regular season.
He is also one of only five players, in the history ofbthe NBA, who lead the league in scoring and went on to become NBA Champions as well. This has only been achieved 11 times and MJ is responsible for 6 of them.
And, he is the only one who was the leading scorer in the playoffs, And Yes, he did it 6 times. as welll. ,
If i can remember anything else ill let you know.
The only player in history of nba to win season mvp, 1st team all defense, scoring title, nba championship and finals mvp all at once. And did it 4 times.
Something else not pointed out enough- from 91-98 he never lost 3 games in a row.
🐐
Before the Joker of the Denver Nuggets MICHAEL JORDAN HAD THE HIGHEST BOX/ PLUS MINUS RATING IN NBA HISTORY.
@@stanleyball2615oh shit really? Jokic really not joking around when he's in the court!
Jordans highlights look different than any player ever.
Yup the mixtape is crazy .you don’t see shit like that no more .
That's because he was playing against absolute scrubs of the 90's who are much less athletic and skilled than today's players.
@@phillyphan1346your legay is far crybaby...soft and dominat floper..so dont ever compere your crygay idiot idol
@phillyphan1346 that's hilarious as the players in the 80s and 90s would butcher the modern day player. Who do they have now? Steph Curry bahahaha, Larry Bird would finish off his ankles
@@phillyphan1346 Casual bot.
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends.
Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ.
Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2.
Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3.
91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic.
92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half
93-- average 41 points per game highest ever.
A higher peak
Why do you post the same paragraph on every MJ/LBJ video? Doesn't it feel just a little pathetic that is what you do with your free time?
@phillyphan1346 what is truly pathetic is you saying Magic is not top 20.
I hate the 9 time defense champ & 10 time scoring champ…… bro they was trash so if he gone win those
@quanportee9216 what the hell are you talking about
@@Sf75178 what am I talking about? Lmao how many ppl in the 80s & 90s TOTAL besides MJ averaged 30?
I grew up watching Mike and now LeBron. Everyone feared Mike... fans, players... everyone. He could take over games like no one in history. On both ends of the court. And didn't complain about getting hit or fouled like LeBron does
Facts
I totally agree with you, it the dumbest debate ever 🤬
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
He mention Jordan 6 championships an 6-0 record but not mentioning his finals opponents an the simple fact Bill Russell has 11 championships. So the mean he the goat.
He mention Jordan stats like we didn’t have a wilt chamberlain.
This is where eras come to play.
Even if you take Lebron out the goat conversation Jordan still not the goat considering the fact you still got guys that average way more points had a better out of prime game.
MJ is clearly the more spectacular player. He captivates the crowd! Everybody watched the NBA when MJ played.
So true! Even many non NBA fans were captivated by him.
Bang on. Finally someone has articulated what I have always felt. The GOAT is NOT about who plays at a high level the longest. It’s about who was the best at their PEAK. Anybody who has been minimally observant will tell you it’s Jordan. In fact I’d take Kobe, Bird and Magic before LeBron. LeBron is a great player … just dont do him a disservice and compare him to Jordan.
Bruh, everybody has articulated this dumb ass argument.
Weirdos just not listening.
I guess but contextually you can compare eras
Lebron played in a physical era people often forget about
So that whole narrative of lebron wouldn’t survive is bs or lebron wouldn’t be great in our era is bs now
If Jordan 220 6’6 is the best in the era
Let’s drop a person mixed with Karl Malone scoring abilities Karl Malone size jordan athleticism magic and bird Iq a legend mentality the playmaking of bird can’t say magic cuz that would be a lie the speed of John wall the strength of Dennis Rodman
Let’s be completely honest if we drop lebron in the 80’s he doing the same thing if not more as jordan if he had a score only mentality lebron would avg 35+ if he didn’t care about his teammates not only that but jordan had Scottie pippen at top 5 small forward
And Dennis Rodman a top 10 power forward
He had multiple all stars on his team and he had the greatest coach and the greatest gm but let’s not discredit jordan he’s great but y’all need to look at it all
Look at the game when he surpassed Kareem
He asked bronny should he go for it and break the record
Like he could’ve been just scoring but he doesn’t play the game that way
But if he wanted to he could there’s not one player in the league that can guard bron even now
I’d take Miami heat lebron over any player ever except for wilt
I don't know how young u are and whether you play basketball and whether your legs are still under you. But if your legs are, some day, if u will, when u get a chance, call up your boys and play ball with the old hand checking and the wide leg stance with elbow in the back when someone tries to post you. You'll see very quickly how dramatically it will alter how you have to play on offense. My legs are not as great so I can't easily challenge the younger generations so they can get a feel for what they easily downplay. If only there were youth elixirs but alas there is none and so we have to swallow the assumptions of the younger generations. If I was commissioner of the NBA I would make a 7 game stretch out of the year dedicated to having teams play by old defensive rules to give them a greater appreciation and respect for a era gone by. Father time is on your side in this argument and that's a huge fortunate.💯🔥🔥🔥
@@jaulj8 I appreciate the old guys as I said I would take any wilt over any player so it’s not that I’m young I know basketball history but you have to understand that the best era wasn’t the 80’s or 90’s defensively and when jordan won dpoy he wasn’t even guarding the best players on the court was he great offensively absolutely but jordan defensively was overrated. He was a guard he can only guard the guard position while the best defenders were Scottie pippen who could guard every position just how lebron could guard every position but guess who doesn’t have a dpoy Scottie pippen the reasons why jordan
The best teams defensively come in at the 2000’s and that’s a fact
@LionellCouplinJr the best defensive years were before Lebron. Lebron only played one season before they took away handchecking, and opened up perimeter scoring. Also Lebron never played in the NBA with no defensive 3 second rule. Most of Lebrons scoring comes at the rim, from his running back drives to the basket. Going to the paint against Hakeem, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutumbo, Patrick Ewing, Young Shaq, David Robinson, the list goes on, Lebron would have a hard time scoring so well at the rim with his limited but effective moveset. Lebrons worst shooting range by far is anything mid range, and he'd be taking alot more shots from there. I think he'd be a better mid range shooter if he played back then, but Lebron just isn't a naturally great shooter for some reason. He's a bad free throw shooter and that's a great indicator of shooting skill.
Also, Lebrons less than stellar mental fortitude would hurt him, getting beat up playing against teams like the Pistons and Knicks. That big body of his is resilient but his brain and heart aren't. Lebron would probably be the second best player in the league, and give Jordan more competition than anyone did during the 90s but he'd still fall short
It's insulting to Michael Jordan to mention LeBron with him. LeBron is an all-time great, no doubt but Jordan is the goat. Bottom line, when the game was on the line, Jordan won at the ball in his hands. He wanted the final shot. He will his team to win LeBron shies away from the ball when the game's on the line. LeBron couldn't will his team to win. He had to join someone else's team to win. Goat discussion over
You Jordan boys amaze me. 17/18 Bron, 15/16, 06/07 all years were LeBron willed his teams to positions they weren’t supposed to be. LeBron individually dominated his era for at least 11 years straight
And jordan smoked and drank and partied hard and still had it in him 😂
Do not forget that Lebron just had over 5000 turnovers, the most turnovers in NBA HISTORY! No GOAT should have that as a stat. MJ is the GOAT
And it’s not cause he played 20 years, other players have to. Not even John Stockton had that many turnovers in 19 seasons. He had 4244. And by his turn over rate he wouldn’t have Gotten to 5,000 in the same time as Lebron has played longer than Stockton. It would take John Stockton 23 seasons to get to 5,000 turnovers.
Jordan is the GOAT, but that's a bad way of thinking. Kobe missed more shots than any other player, Magic had more turnovers per game for his career than any non-active player (Westbrook is the leader as of 2023 but that could change), Wilt and Shaq had by far the most missed free throws in NBA history, and Bill Russell has fewer career points than Mike Bibby. Are those embarrassing statistics to have? Yes. Are they still great players in spite of them? Absolutely.
LeBron is also the only player in NBA history to be swept in the playoffs in three different decades
@@littlebillyjoejimbobdoesn’t mean those players aren’t great, doesn’t mean Lebron is not simply AMAZING. But when you’re talking about the GOAT, you would have to be splitting hairs here comparing the best players to ever do it. So yes, it matters when you wanna be the one and only player at the very top of the pyramid.
@@johnnewsham5193That’s my new favorite sports stat. 😂
Lebrons longevity may be due to his usage of HGH
R.I.P. Bobby Knight
It’s obviously why, when he retires he’ll look like olive oil from Popeye
Then so Tom Bradys
Who knows? The guy has amazing genetics and works hard no doubt, and his longevity is great. That said, even with his amazing longevity that doesn't put him at Jordans level. It's impressive, but Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron is a great player and I give him credit, in fact I gave him number of all time, but MJ was just so so unbelievable and next level that he's definitely the GOAT over Lebron and everyone else.
@@jordanmartel2937 Well it's not like he has good genetics for looking young in the face. He performs amazingly well for his age and for 21 years in the league, but if anything he looks older than his age if in his face. Who knows what he takes? I don't want to say he definitely does take things because he works very very hard and has incredible genetics. I mean he may take something, but either way he's behind Jordan. Even with his longevity, that's not nearly enough to get to MJs level. MJ is the GOAT over Lebron even with Lebrons achievements. Ill give Lebron credit for how good he is, but Jordan was so unbelievable and next level that we may never see anything like him ever again.
LeBronze fan don't see it that way. It's not convenient for them to check facts.
Mj= 🐐
Its simple. LeBron has had like 7 different seasons where he was on a 3 all star team. I don't care WHO you are playing, if LeBron was really the GOAT he'd have 7-8 rings given the teammates he's had, not 4.
People can say whatever they want about LeBron but MJ is the GOAT. No player put in more effort, no player showed up bigger in the big moments like MJ, he's the single biggest difference maker I've ever seen in basketball.
In 2015 finals, LeBron averaged over 32 shots per game and shot under 40%, in the 93 finals Jordan shot over 50% taking more amount of shots per game, and he averaged 40ppg against a superior team. When LeBron does something like THAT to push his team to the promise land give me a call, until then i don't wanna hear it. People forget that about MJ, when players take more than 20 shots per game their averages go drastically down, MJ and Jerry West are of the very few that could take a high volume shots without their fg% falling through the floor.
MJ won more rings with more all stars than LeBron. Lebron's competition had more depth and the fact yah forget that shows some of yah stuck in yah ways
Lebron lost 6.
Jordan has never beaten a team better than his, Lebron has done it twice and it should have been 3 times
@@akkoismydaughter3573 Lol! No he didnt. Dont lie just to make your King look better. Stop it 🤣
@@akkoismydaughter3573 There's only One and Only other All-Star player that Jordan has played with, and that's Scottie Pippen^^. How about LeBron?? Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, AD and so on ^^.
Oh, you mean we should include all-star appearances over the course of each player's career, not just when they played together? then lets count them again^^
*Jordan`s teammate appearance : 11 times total
(Pippen : 7times, Rodman : 2times, Armstrong : 1times, Grant : 1times)
*Lebron`s teammate appearance : 'At Least' 57 times total (because I can`t recall them all... its too many)
(Wade : 12times, Bosh :11times, Erving : 8times, Love :5times, Allen :10times, illga : 2 times, Mo-williams : 1times, AD : 8times)
I heard one thing that sums it all quite nicely: Everyone has Jordan stories, no one is telling LeBron stories.
“throw it to the hand” 😂😂😂😂 he tries so hard bro😂
Kobe is my #2, not Lebron.
I agree a billion percent
oh brother
the other thing that no one ever really talks about......how Jordan accomplished this. What I mean the things he did they were like something out of a movie. He has countless performances that defy logic. Like it was written in a script. The shrug game, the flu game, the 55 on return to MSG. the retirement, the I am Back! And many more. This alone cements MJ as the GOAT for all time, even before you look at stats. Not only is Jordan the greatest of all time, but he was also the most entertaining basketball player to ever watch.
This is like the sequel to DANGERProductions video that we needed, with updated stats.
We also have to remember they played different positions.
And if you look at what Jordan has done at the shooting guard position, his overall play cannot be matched.
At the shooting guard position, Jordan is:
(In parentheses is LeBron’s ranking at the small forward position)
#2 all time in steals per game (James - #11)
#1 all-time in blocks per game (James - #18)
#1 all-time points per game (James - #2)
#4 all-time highest FG% (James - #19)
#3 all-time in rebounds per game (James - #13)
#6 all-time in assists per game (James - #1)
And in every case where Jordan is not #1 in any category above, he is better at every OTHER category than the players above him.
Yes, it's a good thing that he didn't play as a point guard any longer like he did in March-April 89'. 7 Triple doubles in a row, 10 triple doubles from 11 games ( 33,6 P. 10,8 Rebounds, 11,4 Assists on average), 15 Triple doubles in total.
my very favorite story from the MJ mythology is bobby knight advising portland's GM to take jordan and have him play center, draft night '84. you gotta laugh to hear it, but it was probably also completely correct.
This is the biggest point. By virtue of position players are simply more likely to accumulate certain stats, and Jordan was in the top 5 for all but one stat as a SG.
Young people don’t consider that Lebron isn’t playing against defenses, under rules and play style, with the tech that players will be playing with and at in 2045, 2055. He has been doing what he does against the best competition available during his time. That’s the same thing Jordan did. The difference is that Jordan dominated his competition. He didn’t just make it to the finals in a conference that was so weak they had to change the format of the all star game for the first time in history.
Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time and it is objectively demonstrable. LeBum doesn't hold a candle to him.
LeBron having his super long double figure streak in the regular season but at the same having multiple single point performances in the playoffs says a lot.
Also, how legit is that streak if you only play 50 games a year for the past 6 years? That's not load management that's stats management.
2 single point performances in the playoffs
@@antipro44832 is multiple.
This entire...nevermind. The more honest and interesting debate (imo) would be Mike v Kobe and Magic v LeBron. But, cool @$$ highlights bro.👍🏾
I get it. Kobe is a better player than -Lebron- , but Mike vs Kobe would be an obvious loss for Kobe in everybody's eyes (except for Kobe fans). Like I said Kobe *is definitely* better than -Lebron- is. The only reason the -Lebron- debate holds any water is because he is an all time great, whose numbers _approaches" Jordan's numbers, while playing at a time when his fans get to see him play while never have seen Mike play while his game completely differs. But Kobe (who I got ranked #3 behind Jordan, and Kareem), would always lose the argument because he plays __*_just like_* Jordan, while coming up short in almost every accomplishment and stat. When two people do the same thing, the one with the better numbers automatically wins. But when two people do different things, the debate can go back and forth because of the _"what ifs"._
The fact of the matter is that -Lebron- is not even close to Jordan (and behind Kobe). It's only a debate because 1) he's the greatest player that his fans have ever seen play, and 2) ESPN pushes the narrative so they have something to talk about.
Lol Kobe doesn’t come close. Fanboys/casuals try to compare them because Kobe patterned his game after Mike but when you really get into the specifics only Kobe Stans think it’s worth comparing. Just one example- Jordan scored 50 in the playoffs 7 times Kobe once. He’s praised so much for his scoring but couldn’t drop more than 1 50 piece? Iverson and Vince have one of those. Also check out his 2004 Pistons series and then say with a straight face you can imagine prime Jordan playing like that in the FINALS.
@@Ues2DC Kobe did pattern his game off Mike, and Mike gave Kobe tips personally on parts of the game and certain shots early on on his career, which Kobe talked about. Jordan respected Kobe a lot and tried to take him under his wing a little bit. That said, Kobe was amazing, but both Jordan and Lebron are both better than Kobe by a good amount.
there isnt a single major sport in this world where you can call the "Goat" to a player that has a loosing record on Chanpionships of the sport they play at. simple.
I'd rather make the finals 10 times than 6
@@Shockkings0714 Sure if you can win the same or more. But 6 wins is better than 4 every day of the year.
Winning 6 is meaningless when the competition isn't there@@JustinStrife
@@Shockkings0714 Except the competition was there. And the Bulls had a harder path through the playoffs than any of Lebron's rings. You can try and deny the GOAT all you want, but the truth doesn't care about your feelings.
No team Jordan played in the finals was better than those warriors teams or that spurs team. I don't care about the road to the finals as that's not what this convo is about. We are talking strictly finals@@JustinStrife
No doubt about it, MJ is the best.
Yes it’s really is he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
He mention Jordan finals record an his championships like Bill Russell didn’t win 11 championships. If that’s the case Bill Russell the goat.
That’s where eras come to play if you say Bill Russell era was trash it’s safe to say MJ era was trash too.
He fail mentioning his finals opponents.
He talk about Jordan stats like we didn’t have a wilt chamberlain.
Realistically speaking Mike was the 🐐 without a championship 😂😂😂😂
Mj the goat just for the simple fact he did it for the team that drafted him and had a great team built around him lebron went to be on basically a super team and then came back to Cleveland because how they felt about him leaving
LeBron fanboys make excuses for the opponent, but the fact is this. Jordan's opponent`s best player were better rank at MVP race each season than Lebron`s.
'91 Magic : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP)
'92 Drexler : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP)
'93 Barkley : MVP (Jordan ranked 3rd)
'96 Payton: Ranked 6th (Jordan was the MVP)
'97 Malone: MVP (Jordan Ranked 2nd)
'98 Malone : Ranked 2nd (Jordan was the MVP)
< MVP ranked average for opposing aces over 6 years: 2.33 // Jordan average over 6 years: 1.5 >
=======================================
'07 Duncan: Ranked 4th (Lebron was 5th)
'11 Nowitchiki : Ranked 6th (Lebron was 3rd)
'12 Durant : Ranked 2nd (Lebron was the MVP)
'13 Parker : Ranked 6th (Lebron was the MVP)
'14 Duncan : Ranked 12th (Lebron was 2nd)
'15 Curry: MVP (Lebron was 3rd)
'16 Curry: MVP (Lebron was 3rd)
'17 Curry: Ranked 6th (Lebron was 4th)
'18 Durant: Ranked 7th (Lebron was 2nd)
'20 Butler: Ranked 11th (Lebron was 2nd)
< MVP ranked average for opposing aces over 10 years : 5.6 // 10-year average for Lebron: 2.6 =====================================
Summarize
1. During the Finals, Lebron's opponent's MVP ranking(5.6) was lower than Jordan's opponent's(2.33).
2. Conversely, Jordan's MVP ranking(1.5) during the Finals is higher than Lebron`s ranking(2.6).
3. Jordan was stronger than LeBron in the Finals, faced tougher opponents, and still won more games.
Which team did MJ play in the Finals that was better than the 2014 Spurs and 2016, 2017 & 2018 Warriors?
@@phillyphan1346 Phoenix Suns, Utah Jazz were his most challenging opponents. The warriors were taken to 7 games by Houston without Chris Paul in games 6 and 7. LeBron, despite facing that team twice, could only get 1 game. He was swept also. He should've at least been able to get to 7 games like Houston, otherwise you're saying that Clint Capella, Chris Paul and Harden are better than Lebron, Kyrie and Love.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl Only a Jordashian would argue the 2017 & 2018 Warriors were not the greatest team ever assembled, against all analytics and statistics which undoubtedly point to them as so. Not even worth a dignified answer. Suns had 1 player in Barkley while the Jazz had two and no one else while the Bulls had a better roster and were favored by Vegas in both. Clown show
@@phillyphan1346 Haha LeBron fanboys' flawed logic again ^^.
The 2014 Spurs, 2017,2018 Warriors, and other teams that were strong in their era were like Chicago in the 90s with Jordan. The same opponent team that the LeBron fanboys were making excuses for not beating because too strong was Jordan's Chicago^^ in 90s standard. Not because they were a super team, but because they had Jordan^^. According to ELO rankings, 95-96 Chicago is stronger than those teams^^.
You know what? The 2014 Spurs and the 2017 and 2018 Warriors are strong teams, yes, but they had to fight their way up through the Western Conference, going all the way to Game 7, etc. The easiest teams to beat by champion in the playoffs that year were Miami and Cleveland^^ Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that LeBron's team would have lost to any team in the West that made the playoffs, not just those two teams.
Please don't give me the excuse that you lost because the other team was stronger^^.
We're not criticizing LeBron because he lost to those teams, we're criticizing him because he lost to them easier than the first round teams in the West.^^
@@phillyphan1346 How many times has LeBron's team lost the easiest game to the championship team that year? Let's count. 2007, 2014, 2018, 2020. 4 times in total. 2017, yeah, they were better than a first round Western Conference opponent, but not better than a second round Western Conference team. What about 2011? they lost despite having more power ranking because LeBron played the worst game ever^^.
I've never waivered in my opinion about Jordan vs. James. Jordan's misstep... his baseball career. There's no question... he would have added to the pile had he continued in the NBA.
Jordan gets a pass on this because his father got murdered and Jordan stepped back from the NBA. Many think it was organized crime that made him get out the NBA. Gambling!
@@stanleyball2615gambling is not a crime....it's actually legal
Or not. I'm an MJ fan, but it is mentally tiring to win back to back championships, even more so a threepeat or four. The year off probably helped him win 3 more championships with that year off as rest.
@@thecall0ut I was not specifically talking about Championships. I was talking about personal accolades. But who knows maybe you are right.
@@stanleyball2615 I have heard that theory. I don't think it's true. Definitely not fully true with the murder of his dad and what not, but there was probably things MJ was involved with they didn't want to talk about. MJ did have a gambling problem at one time, and that's not debatable, it was a fact.
Great video, I love the fact you talked about football as well about the longevity argument, you made awesome points!
Still a lot of people really don''t want to agree or can't (some media personality some money reason maybe?) acknowledge the realty, to me was already pretty obvious after the first 9 season of LeBron, I'm a great MJ fan but if LeBron could have accomplished what MJ did in his first 9 years I would have no problem in saying MJ was the second best player, but MJ from 84 to 93 never missed the playoffs and even after missing almost all his second season he was able to win 7 scoring titles, become the only player with Wilt to score more that 3000 pts in one season while winning 3 league MVPs a 3 peat + finals MVP, managing to dwarf any ppg record in the playoffs and in the finals also leading the league 3 times in steals plus becoming defensive player of the year, as much as LeBron's first 9 seasons were great, his accomplishments were not nearly as impressive as MJ's so to me LeBron was already disqualified from that argument.
LeBron will forever be remembered as the most consistent player in NBA history thanks to his longevity but never ever the Goat.
It's one thing to say that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, but to say that LeBron James doesn't have an argument is asinine.
MJ IS THE GOAT!!! PERIOD.........
If LeBron won 8 straight championships like he claimed would happen this would be a different conversation. But he didn't. So here we are.
some disrespect towards Karl Malone's game, he had 2 league MVP's, 3 Finals appearances, was probably the second or third best player in the 1990's. So Karl is a borderline top 10 player, easily a top 15-20. He is a top 10 player all time in scoring and rebounding while having the 13th best PPG in NBA history and shooting over 50% for his career.
But the thing is no one puts Malone in the top 10 lol. If he had at least 3 rings he would be easily be in the top 10 or 5. That’s why having rings is important.
@@easylife6348 his overall individual stats and awards, Karl Malone is a worthy top 10 player even without a ring. Maybe the best player with no ring. Reason nowadays he isn't mentioned is bc everyone now knows he is a deadbeat dad and knocked up an underage girl. In the 1990's he was mentioned with MJ, Hakeem, etc as the best player of that decade. He even beat MJ for a MVP award where MJ was the runner up when MJ had 5 MVP's at that point.
It's 2 main things:
- the game-stoppages from Karl throwing elbows. He had a rep for putting dudes in the hospital, and you will find videos on YT _only about_ Malone throwing elbows.
- the "fathering a child with a 13-year old" scandal that keeps people from wanting to remember Mailman.
@@shaft9000 yes, but the game was officiated differently then. Malone was playing within what the refs would allow. He is a borderline top 10 all time player, but scandals have people pretending he never existed. Not saying he is a good person, but one of the greats in hoops history. Best player to never win a ring.
hes not in my top 1000 greatest even.
when LB has less accolades, the bronsexual fans said the competition is fierce these days. IMO, just an excuse for LB's poor ability to win and aspire the game spectators.
Luckily decades from now people will still know that Russell had the most rings and Wilt had the most records.
And they will still know Michael Jordan was the greatest player to ever play the game.
@@jkingdom3 Already the shine is wearing off with Lebron, KD, Curry in the mix. MJ was probably the greatest two guard and definitely top 10 all time.
@@RG-ct6qz What stuff are you on? I want some!
@@jkingdom3 ok if you're saying MJ is the best despite Bill having more rings then you're essentially saying rings dont matter!! which therefore debunks the whole idea that longevity doesnt matter too!! which means it opens the flood gates when it comes to other key stats that too lazy to hoop never even mentioned simply cuz he knew hed have to give enough checks to LeBron to where hed have to admit he was wrong and give the goat title to him!!! exactly too lazy to hoop only mentioned what Jordan led in and didnt bring up what bron led in!! every goat video ive seen where they cover every topic and give U the whole story rather then just part came to the conclusion that brons the goat therefore this video is invalid!! its exactly like fox or msnbc news where they only give U one side of things!!
@@EBKJBib Sorry, I cannot engage any more. Most people who have seen both Jordan and LeBron will say it's Jordan BY FAR. Only people who have not watched 80s/90s NBA think it's LeBron. Ultimately, I WAS THERE. I SAW. No offense, but you look no older than 20... so how can you know???
The best comparison is Lebron And Pippen Same Position that should be the debate who is better Lebron or Pippen
Lucky for king james, Jordan only played 15 seasons
11 seasons, he ended his career really in 98, in 86 he played only 18 games, 22 min per game, in 95 he played 17 games after coming back from retirement of 1.5 half seasons without touching the ball.
@@rankarat13 seasons
@@robglobal1
11.
@@rankaratThat's right, 6 titles in 11 years. No one but Lebron fans say he went to the Wizards, one of the worst teams at the time, to win rings. He wanted to at least reach the playoffs, but that was a shame with the team. And yes, he just wanted to play and needed some incentive.
When it comes to Lebron, 1 title in 11 years with the Cavs, 4/10 as one of the worst Finals win rates in NBA history. I'd rather bring Russell into the goat debate than Leflop. Sry
Goats have always built a dynasty like Jordan did with a team that wasn't even mediocre when he arrived. The much more rigid positions back then do the rest. Tested when Jordan played as pointguard in March-April 89'. 7 triple doubles on sequence, 10 tr. d. from 11 games (33.6 p. 10.8 rebounds, 11.4 assists on average), 15 triple doubles in total which is just crazy. If you just extrapolate that over a few seasons and then Lebron, which is called a super all-rounder... with his 107 triple doubles in 20 years, the debate becomes even more ridiculous. Jordan was an alien.
@@Everyoneisafraidoftheirtruthmention his finals opponents he never played a 73-10 team or a 4 all star team.
Don’t compare LEFLOP to JORDAN..compare all LEFLOP’S ENDLESS HELP to JORDAN..😂😂
best arguement I've ever heard all those advanced stats that people overlook are key
MICHAEL JORDAN BROKE THE ALGORITHM OF BASKETBALL AND NOONE COMES CLOSE TO HIM AS G.O.A.T !
Lebron is the goat of Choking 😂😂😂
It's ironic, one player built the game up to levels we've never seen. The other has torn it down. The league is unwatchable now. Lebron needs to retire.
If you the Goat 🐐 and on the Miami Heat roster, you win 4 straight titles and cement your legacy, what you don’t do is have book end loses to other Top 75 players in the twilight of their careers, Dirk and Tim 😮 Jordan stopped HOFers, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Miller etc and if he doesn’t go to play baseball ⚾️ I can honestly say without 🧢 that Hakeem and Jet probably wouldn’t have 2 and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that MJ would have won 8 straight, now compared to LeBron going to 8 straight Finals and only winning 3 😮 🤷🏾♂️Goatship denied 🙅🏾♂️
The only thing annoying about the debate is how fans of both players say that it isn’t worth having.
Yes it is. LeBron has reached a stratosphere only Kareem and MJ are in. I don’t personally think he’s leapfrogged Jordan but his resume so far and his continued play at almost 39 is wild
he also quit in those finals and let jason terry out play him. A bench player
if he played in the 90's with all the tough guys that mj played lebron would cry everyday
You act players today never took tough hits an still play. Lebron took shots in the face plenty of times.
Russell Westbrook got tackle in his knee by Patrick Beverly an still kept playing.
You got Steven Addams getting kicking the balls by Draymond green Twice in one game.
I can keep going.
It would take some getting used to that's for sure. The pistons would beat the hell out of him for a while. The Knicks would as well.
Like. All Bron has is stats. And he’s taking 2 NBA careers worth of time to get them. He hasn’t even been in the top 10 of players in terms of actual ability for probably 3-4 years at this point. He cherry picks a large percentage of his points, often times being the reason for a turn over-fast break and just not running back for D. Then he gets the cross court for an open dunk to retaliate because the other 9 players in the game were on the other side of the court playing basketball. Dude plays half the game. And only plays in half the games. Plus his mentality towards the ‘GOAT’ mantra of, “I’ve already earned it. I’m entitled to it.” That’s just not what the greatest does. Is he one of the most gifted athletes ever? Absolutely. But the greatest ever isn’t just the best athlete, there’s a mindset attached to true greatness that Bron just doesn’t have.
Love your videos 👍💪🏆🥇 thank you
much appreciated 🙏
More time to accomplish what Jordan did and still didn't. MJ the GOAT.
I cant wait till Lebron retires and we compare another player to MJ.
Shawn Kemp the 🐐
10/10 Bartenders agree
Goat comment aha
Awesome analysis but all it did was state the IMMUTABLE AND OBVIOUS TRUTH- MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE GOAT!!!!
Lebron has a longer career yet can’t win more championships
I'm telling you
Why did Jordan have a shorter career?
@@geniuschipendo7042 cuz he didn’t have the tech bron has
@@ShinBin8 no it's bc he retired 18 times
@@lucafava3416 yet bro still has 6 chips. Lebron struggled to get 4
In games 3 & 6 of the 1993 Eastern Conf. Finals Jordan was 11-42 (26%) while the rest of the Bulls players shot 53-93 (57%) and the Bulls won both of those games even though Jordan played like shit. Jordan had WAY MORE help than people like to acknowledge. I'm team LeBron when it comes to the GOAT debate.
Its funny how everyone picks and chooses what they consider as important in the goat debate.
Michael Jordan is above everybody plain and simple
Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, KD, Curry are closer to each other than Jordan
We should be debating if Bron was better than Jerry West. Imagine what West would do w today's rules and not having to dribble from the top of the ball like they did back then. Even big O would be insane in today's game
Lol u smoking Jerry west took 11 years to win 1 championship
@@epictronologs1793Let’s see ur dumbass do so much better against the super stacked 60s Celtics rosters. If y’all love to claim Lebron has no help in this era, you guys would’ve want to off yourself if he played against bill Russell’s Celtics.
@@epictronologs1793 That's all that LeBron ever did in Cleveland, too = 1 chip in 11 seasons
@@shaft9000 You forgot to mention that he came back from a 3-1 deficit against one of the greatest regular season teams of all time.
Jerry west went against a weak new york knicks in the finals and shot 3/15 (20%) in game 1, 6/21 (28.6%) in game 2, and averaged an impressive 32.5% FG percentage in his finals series against them, the 10th lowest FG percentage by an all star in the finals in NBA history, he got carried. Against real competition like the celtics, he disappeared.
Now tell me without bias which ring was more impressive.
As someone who watched both Jordan and lebrons carrers , this is a stupid debate mj is clearly the goat
All right, MJ obviously is the GOAT, but my personal 🐐 is Kobe.
100% fair. Kobe's mentality and fight is just unbelievable to watch.
Honestly the only people I ever see praising Lebron over Jordan, are all guys under 30 years old and weren’t even alive during the era of the Bad Boys Pistons, or the Showtime Lakers. You just cannot be in a GOAT debate with people who haven’t lived in the era when the original greats played. Statistics alone don’t show greatness.. it’s a combination of stats, competitiveness, clutch plays, Championship WINS versus Loses, *fear factor* (Jordan’s Killer instincts), and the way he changed the game. The NBA has changed since the one and only MJ, and teams like the 1989 and 1990 Detroit Pistons had to actually invent new rules to try and take Jordan down, because he was a team killer.. an ASSASSIN. So they invented “The Jordan Rules”, which consisted of fouling the shit out of him, knocking him down, and beating him up physically.
You will never find a book called “The Lebron Rules”, because the league is different now and those types of fouls and physicality isn’t even allowed anymore. Lebron is playing in a much weaker league that is less physical. Jordan had to play against the most Notorious flagrant foul team of all time in the Pistons, and also the New York Knicks in the 90’s, and he beat the crap out of them several times after those first two losses to the Pistons in the playoffs in 89’ and 90’. Jordan won every single championship he played in consecutively after that with the Bulls, on the same team he came in with. He didn’t sell out and go to another team to join other great players. He stayed with his squad, even after his father died and he retired in 94’ and 95’.. and came back to Chicago with completely different role player guys beside Scottie Pippen, and still won three more in a row. Jordan no doubt would have won those two championships in those two years, had he not retired. But the fact that he took two years to play a completely different sport and mourn the loss of his father, then come back and win like he didn’t even take a break, is a feat that nobody has ever done in any sport.
Before Michael Air Jordan came to the league, it was ALL about the big man Center game. Your best players were always the big man types like Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Walton, Ralph Sampson, etc.. that’s why Hakeem Olajuwon was the #1 pick in the draft by Houston and Jordan was #3 in 1984. After Jordan started dominating and winning championships, every player wanted to “Be like Mike”, and every team wanted a Michael Jordan TYPE of player. So every star player that came AFTER Michael Jordan, had imitated HIS game to a point where everyone was doing fade away jump shots, driving to the basket with ferocity, shooting three pointers, doing incredible dunks, and wearing air Jordan sneakers. The superstar signing Mega Million dollar shoe deals all came from the original Michael Jordan and Nike deal.
Michael changed the face of the game, and inspired everyone else to be great after him. Look at Kobe Bryant.. he is literally Michael Jordan in a different body with younger legs. Same killer instinct and same competitive nature, literally same looking jump shot and similar drive moves to the basket. No other NBA players game has been imitated like Michael Jordan’s.
Without Michael Jordan, we would have never seen a Kobe Bryant, or Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dwayne Wade, Stephen Curry, or yes even Lebron James. All of these men are who they are BECAUSE of his Airness, Michael Jordan. Here’s a video which shows some of what I speak of, outside of stats:
ruclips.net/video/yiKCnvO09q8/видео.htmlsi=jLBJhWv0z5mZYAhq
Also, nobody talks about defense in these debates. Lebron is a phenomenal offensive player and he is the greatest force to ever drive to the basket and dominate as a power forward. But Lebron isn’t a great Defensive player like Jordan was. Jordan won Defensive Player of the year once, and made the NBA’s All Defensive Team several years in a row, on top of all of his scoring titles and championships. This right here is what separates Jordan from Lebron, and you cannot bring any argument for Lebron to compare.
Further more, when you ask the actual NBA players who played with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, AND Lebron James.. and 100% of these NBA players would pick Michael Jordan over Lebron in a GOAT debate. I trust NBA players who played against them for this debate y’all.
ruclips.net/video/SCk7pm8zV4k/видео.htmlsi=uGYstt_u9Dgee2tk
I am 46 and I have seen them all play since the Showtime Lakers and George Gervin days in San Antonio. I grew up with this game and played in high school. In the 80’s and 90’s, Michael Jordan was GOD, and literally everyone wanted to be like Mike. Every baller imitated his moves. Everyone to this day wears his clothes, including Lebron James himself, who wears Jordan’s jersey number. Lebron desperately wants to be like Mike, and certainly would like to be the “King” of basketball.. So I’ll give Lebron the King status, but MJ will always be a basketball GOD.
Another point that must be spoken about, which every Lebron fan hates to consider, is Lebron James’s first ten seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers. In that time he went to the NBA Finals only one time, and got SWEPT by my San Antonio Spurs in 2007. Then he decided to leave his team and join a superstar team in Miami, and he lost in the Finals to my second favorite team the Dallas Mavericks in 2011. That’s the first 10 years of Lebrons total career. Then, after he finally won his first two titles with Miami, he lost again to my Veteran San Antonio Spurs in 2014, blowing the Miami Heat Out 4 games to 1.
After that debacle, it was the new era dynasty team Golden State Warriors that dethroned him three times, in embarrassing fashion 2015, 2017 (4 games to 1), and again in 2018 (SWEPT), after he finally got one more Championship back in Cleveland. Lebrons entire first half of his career was a total bust, and you absolutely have to count those first years and all of those championship loses in this debate argument. Lebron James’s NBA Finals record will always be the Achilles heal of his Legacy. Can’t ignore this, and you will never be able to say the same about the Emperor Michael Jordan, Ever. MJ won every championship he played in, and on top of that, he single handedly was the “Title Robber” of some of the greatest basketball players to ever play in the NBA, including Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Dan Majerle, Patrick Ewing, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Sam Bowie, Anthony Hardaway, Chris Mullen, Alonzo Morning, and Christian Latener, all of which are Hall of Fame players (except Christian). Lebron never did anything like that to anyone.
www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/nba-reviewing-lebron-james-s-six-nba-finals-losses-ss
And for those who want to talk Stats and facts only, well here’s some more from the Greatest of All Time that you have never considered in the GOAT debate, compliments of Mr. Michael Air Jordan. This isn’t even a debate for those who know the FULL stats and facts.
ruclips.net/video/xyngBl-C58w/видео.htmlsi=w5VErl7ZRhBOP3FN
For the Advanced Stats that people seek to forget about MJ, and Lebron fans certainly never consider.. this is the one breakdown that 100% solidifies Michael Jordan’s GOAT status forever, and Lebron James will never catch him with his longevity argument.
ruclips.net/video/_33SbsskbPU/видео.htmlsi=me47YyG7WCedxGSx
And lastly, I want all of you Lebron James fans to do me a favor.. Look down at your feet right now and be honest with me.. You are wearing a pair of AIR JORDANS on your feet right now aren’t you? Or you have at least three pairs of Air Jordan’s in your closet. That is all I want to say. The Acronym GOAT 🐐 stands for Greatest of All Time, and that first word Great comes from many factors. Never forget the man who paved the way for all the smaller and medium sized players to have the spotlight. Lebron has achieved many great feats, and is now even a Billionaire (Mike was the first sports mega Billionaire).. But nobody will ever compare to the one and only Legendary Michael Jordan.
Straight facts brother! No hate
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
Even if you take Lebron out the goat conversation Jordan still wouldn’t be considered the goat base off the facts this dude talking about.
He talk about stats like we didn’t have a wilt chamberlain. Not to mention Jordan is not number 1 in any all time category.
He talk about championships that means Bill Russell the goat he has 11 championships Jordan has 6.
This is where eras come to play.
If somebody told you: number 23. Who is the first basketball player that comes to your mind? .
I think that Labron is not even a top 3 player of all time. The top 3 players of all time are no.1 Jordan, 2. Kobe 3. Kareem
Then Bird Magic Duncan Wilt
Kobe isn't even that good though
@@timratcliff6590 I agree with that order
@@frankdobs Kobe beat more 50+W teams than anybody in the post-season
And only Jordan won more back 2 back titles than Kobe, post-merger
And Shaq couldn't win more than one chip without Kobe, while needing the #2 SG in the league to do it.
In contrast - Kobe repeated b2b with Pau Gasol who's greatest success was going 0-16 in the playoffs before becoming a Laker.
MJ better than Lebron
Silly ass debate ….. only stat that matters that no one brings up …. Most final mvps …
not the only stat that matters...and it's literally brought up all the time by nearly everyone.
This was never a debate to begin w. The real debate is if Bron is a top 15 player all time and I'm not hating just being realistic
Nobody with any sort of basketball knowledge thinks LeBron James is better than MJ. I have noticed there are a few types of individuals who think LBJ is better.
1) Kids who know basketball but are influenced by social media, PR stunts and peer-pressure
2) Kids who don't know basketball but are influenced by social media, PR stunts and peer-pressure
3) Ex-pros who are small-minded and/or jealous, like Laimbeer or Isiah Thomas
4) Degenerate journalists like Nick Wright who know such opinion will make their lame show more watchable and are probably affiliated or somehow influenced by the James PR machine
5) Journalists who know that as long as the debate goes on, they will have something to talk about on their shows. I'd say the success of Skip and Shannon was based in large part on this point.
6) Gen pop 1: This is my impression and is a bit far-fetched and will sound like a layman's psychological take: Mostly frustrated people without talent. In LBJ they recognise the machine they could be with work ethic, aggression and attitude. Jordan is a god-like creature who destroys their worldview with his finesse, beauty and artistry, so he must be removed, like Jesus.
Gen Pop 2: People who are into advanced stats, and by opting for LeBron they are showing they are different and more knowledgeable than the average basketball fan who, they think, only says Jordan cause it's the thing to say.
7) LeBron James. If he hadn't mentioned it, or had gone out and said MJ is the GOAT, I seriously don't think it would be a debate. He keeps it running. Reminds me of that easy girl cheaply flirting over the table and losing value every time she looks at you.
well said...but Mickey mouse ring/championship isn't the same as an 82 season + PO + Finals..so leflop has 3.5 champions..not 4...ALL the stats put MJ as the BEST EVER!!....but simply put...MJ accomplished more in less time than leflop did with his superteams..."all hail the real KING MJ!!"
He isn't gonna let you suck him off no matter what you comment here
It is a dumb debate, because there’s no debating MJ is the goat
Honestly i dont know why people are passing Kobe up for this debate... the debate should be between Kobe and MJ... not lebron sorry
Just once I would like to see a neutral video on this topic only seeing old heads and people in there mid 20s cry about who’s better. Both players are great and both should be appreciated for what they gave to the sport
Neutrality is not saying "Both LeBron and MJ are good and we shouldn't compare them", being neutral is being objective while comparing them. If this video was about Larry Bird, Kevin Durant, and LeBron being equally great, you wouldn't be calling the video neutral.
wont happen NBA fans are literal fanboys🤣🤣🤣Jordan, Bron, Kobe, and now Curry all have the same fanbases
@@Michael_Page ah yes because you know exactly what I would say about that topic. Thank for informing me on what I would say
By neutral do you mean not coming to a decision? ... That sounds like a participation award to me.
Why even comment this? 😂 this is a competitive game if you want to hold hands and skip through the grass go watch something else
Lebron can't handle 90s nba
What MJ did was phenomenal, no question, but I think he had it easier than LeBron during his career.
LeBron had to face tougher competition than MJ while not having the pieces the Warriors had. Plus, LeBron was not a score first guy like Jordan.
Michael Jordan was a shoot first, ask questions later type of player. Was MJ a ball hog, 100% yes, but was it more out of a desire to win rather than just stat padding.
However, I believe LeBron is the GOAT because of not just his longevity but his versatility. Yes, MJ was a more successful player, no question. His heart, determination, and desire to win are unrivaled by anyone in NBA history, but LeBron is the type of player who can beat his opponents in multiple different ways.
In my opinion, LeBron is the GOAT not just because of his success but the ways he found that success.
Nah, dawg. You think Lebron had tougher competition? 😂😂
Jordan played in the toughest era, defense wise. Guys would literally knocked him down over and over. Defense back then was ruthless, 80% of today's NBA stars would cripple back then.
Leave the crack alone
@@tylerdurden2518it’s basketball not football, they didn’t play zone defense ether
Cmon man. Just watch jordan highlights and then lebron highlights
@TheLusianPopa MJ faced 7 HOFers over 6 teams in the Finals. LBJ played 18 HOFers in his 1st 6 Finals. Just stop it.
I’ll never believe this solely for one reason. They played in two eras which is way too difficult to compare. people have won more rings, mvps, and defensive titles than both of them. Also voter fatigue has become a thing as of late as well as the overall skill of the average player. Genuinely, Jordan is one of a kind but SGA puts up similar stats as of lately and if he continues does that make him the goat? No cause there’s so much other competition that makes everything so much harder and Lebron always evolves to fit the game to the best of his ability. I think reasonably they’re both goats of their eras but you can’t truly compare two people of two different times. (Also Jordan had the TEAM OAT before the GSW so obviously he’d win multiple with them… Lebron beat the best team in the history of the NBA which inflates his stats imo)
This is some really hard hitting analysis. Wow. Lebron only scored 20 with 8 assists in a single finals game!? He must be the worst player we've ever seen!
Notice how LeFans react to facts about anyone who is better than Lebron lol. They go the other way off the deep,end just like Rich Paul. So, Lebron is not the goat at all so that them means he is trash lololol. He may be top 10 or he may not be in many peoples eyes so then he is trash lolol. The narcissism he has somehow transfers to his fans. He is one of the greats but he and his emo fans will not accept the facts. There are a few players better than him. It’s ok. He is still one of the best on offense that ever did it. Not so much defensively. Half his career he only plays offense and plays little to zero defense as the video evidence clearly shows. Now isn’t it highly disrespectful to the historically better players on both ends, to rank him higher than them when Lebron hasn’t given max effort on full court like they did? I have seen alarming video proof of how much load management Lebron does in game. It’s atrocious. Goats don’t do that.
@@snakebitten6967💯
And dont forget only scoring 8pts in the 2011 finals. But were all supposed to ignore that and still see him as the GOAT right?
Lebron Stans do a few things that make them insufferable:
If you don’t think he’s GOAT you’re disrespecting him/ think he sucks.
Try to diminish Jordan’s accomplishments to boost him. Jordan fans don’t typically do that first unless Lebron fans do. Why? Because they don’t need to. They can just put Jordan’s vs his and leave it at that. However Lebron Stans can’t make the case for him without denigrating Jordan and so Jordan fans point out his flaws.
Constantly lie/misrepresent Jordan’s career - he didn’t win for first 7 years. Not taking into account the team he has vs level of competition at the time. How tf was he going to beat Boston with that squad. He did win DOPY MVP Rookie of the year multiple scoring/steals titles in those years.
Overrating Pip who was a great player but they pretend he was Barkley Shaq Ewing Robinson Olajuwon etc. They also don’t know history so don’t understand how instrumental Jordan was to his development.
@@Ues2DC All Jordashians diminish players of today. Talk about competition MJ faced in his early years but not the wide gap in talent between MJ Finals opponents and LBJ's. Talk about overrating Pippen, who was 3rd in MVP voting without MJ and averaged & had more assists, rebounds, blocks and steals than MJ over their 6 playoff runs while guarding the other teams best player. It is just a fact players today are more skilled and athletic than the 90's which was 30 years ago. To argue against this means you dont know basketball.
Greatness in an athletic sport has so much to do with mentality. If you give up or disappear just once, your already below Jordan. Amazes me how many excuses I've heard for lebrons lowlights. Bron somehow "passing Jordan" is a ship that sailed a long long time ago.. but these fans just can't face it
The scoring title debate is always hilarious. Bron avg 30ppg at 38. Ppl acting like bron aint avg 27ppg on 4 field goals less and 2 more asists than Jordans 30ppg lol
How many seasons did Jordan play where 8 players were avg 30ppg? How many finals against 4hof+
Jordans dpoty was highway robbery since olajuwon beat him in every meaningful defensive stats and adv stats lol.
Mj led Hakeem (and the league) in steals, stl%, and defensive box plus minus. With them being basically tied in defensive win shares. Not exactly “highway robbery”
@@SelectaMedia It was. Hakeem had adv defensive stats, def win shares, blocks, rebounds and its rarer for a C to avg 2stls than a guard avg 1blk.
@@andrewcook1246 A C averaged more steals than Hakeem 5 years later (DRob), another G did not finish top 2 in def win shares (minus jordan a few years later) until 30 seasons later (BSims). So one could argue Jordans def win share that season was more rare than hakeems steals. Though to be fair only 1 other center has avgd over 2 stls. Nonetheless, Jordan and Hakeem were basiclly tied (6.3 to 6.1) in def win shares that season. Its not like when DRob came first in def win shares (90/91) with 7.6 and Hakeem was 2nd 5.7. I'm not saying Hakeem didnt have the stats to win the award, im only taking issue with mj winning it as being extremely unfair.
@@SelectaMedia Robinson did so once, avg 2+stls, Hakeem 5x. Robinson wasn't even in the league at that time I believe. Mike had a helluva season for a G, but not worth the DPOTY unless you go to the feelgood angle. Hakeem had him in 2/3 def stats and the two main adv def stats. Plus as a C he was the defensive anchor of his team.
And on the feelgood aspect. They sure are picky with it as Hakeem once as a C avg 200stls and 280blks in a season (1st and only player to do so) and didn't even win DPOTY that season. I'd say DPOTY is the mos inconsistent award along with def teams and I take them with the most grains of salt. Tim Duncan never winning the award is a travesty that the league had 15 years to correct and never did.
Lebron's 30 don't count bro.
He did it in a team that gave him all the shots to take the scoring record, first, also was a mediocre team (that I was happy to see progressing from that mediocrity). As Barkley said, it is easier to have good stats on not so good teams.
Also this era have you seen how many put up monster stats as if it is a normal thing?
Lebron's 30 points would be 20-22 comparatively and allowing for inflation due to rule changes. Those fuckers don't even whistle travelling anymore!!! Most sidesteps are travelling...
Over the rant, he does remain a very good player for his age even more so.
You can find how many seasons Jordan played vs whoever you want but the point is this: In an era where the pace was slower, points less and efficiency was way harder to be achieved due to different rules, systems, coaches and harder players/playing the man averaged more points even compared to today's playground basketball. I am not saying that the talent isn't there with modern players, they are monsters. The reference goes to what the NBA wants to see in order to get views, and it is records being broken and they push for it.
And the older players that retain those records are the greater ones. You can compare Kevin Love's stats to Larry Bird, they are very close. Are they the same quality players, for their careers? No. The impact Bird had was immeasurable.
By the way you'd be suprised that neither Wilt nor Jordan hold the ppg average records worldwide or most points scored...There are amazing players all over the world> Different conditions mean they cannot be compared.
Lebron is good but to me he is not even top three to be honest.
Noone is even close to jordan
All the old heads will say MJ. In 20 years the consensus opinion will be LeBron. I doubt in the 2040s sports media will move on from Jordan as Bron will be retired and probably own a team while the talking heads go on about Bronny and Bryce.
Idk man, kids in the future are gonna see that MJ has way more accolades, more mvps, more championships, more finals mvps, a DPOY 6-0 finals record vs 4-10 not caring about any context and they gonna conclude that MJs was the better player.
@@jarlbalgruuf7701on paper they're not wrong. It just feels generational. Those who grew up on Jordan say MJ. You can't change Kobe fans minds, you can't change LeBron fans minds when most of the fans of his you argue with online these days were born when he was in Miami
Doubt it. If it hasn't happened already it won't. Take Gretzky and Jordan, both guys were considered GOATs in the middle of their career. With LeBron it's always "it's gonna happen eventually but he's not there yet". They said the same thing about Peyton Manning but it wasn't Manning, it was Brady, the man who won 7 rings. Michael, his 6 rings and 6 final MVPs will always keep him ahead of James. Until LeBron can match that he has no chance.
Here's the problem with James; all you can do is make excuses as to why he didn't do that. You can bring up eras, you can say MJ played against plumbers where LBJ played against all time greats, whatever horseshit you wanna bring up doesn't change the fact MJ was the bigger star and MJ just flat out accomplished more in less time. Just like Manning and Aaron Rodgers it's excuses and that's just enough to be the GOAT. GOATs produce results, not excuses.
Yes Lebron as team owner name will be the 4&6ixers
Imagine losing more finals than you won and there's people saying you're the GOAT. smh
Is this even a debate? C'mon man. LeBron, by about a decade.
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lol
Fr
Lol lebron teamed up with the best sg and pf in the league on the heat and then lost to old dirk and jason terry. Lebron has no bag stop it lol
What's crazy is that no one is ever mentions that in the game LeBron James broke the scoring record, HE LOST THAT GAME!
Ok…?
@@Yumi-rc1ft I think he got swept in The Finals, too. That's what people will remember, not the scoring title.
80s and 90s defense was hot ass just saying
tf are you talking about have you ever see the physicality of the nba then the pistons would have ended lebrons career you are such a nincompoop
facts
fu
not really, more contact was allowed and in the 1990's scoring was down significantly due to how much contact was allowed by defenders by the officiating. Also lets say you are right (you are not), MJ was still the scoring leader 10 times often with over 30 PPG. But not many guys back then were getting 30 PPG. It was usually just MJ. In todays game you might see a few guys do it in any given season.
@@hepwo91222 let’s not forget the pace was very low back in the 90s too which amplified the defense even more.
Hate this debate. LBJ barely makes my top 5 but I thought Kareem was more of a contender to MJ than anyone else
Bron the goat 🥱
@@TinyCat1015 clown 🤡
You get a LIKE for that title.
Any person who reads that title and thinks that LeBron comes out on top should stop watching basketball and take up another hobby, such as knitting or something else that does not include some form of competition.
Imagine what Jordan's numbers would be if he decided to play 21 years.
The only two players who can be discussed as GOAT with Jordan are Wilt Chamberlain and Kobe.
idk how i found this channel but im glad im here. easy sub.
Lebron is an overall better player. He does everything on the court. And it is a dumb debate cause it's all opinions.
Honestly, one of the best videos on the subject, factual and concise too. Big props!
No it’s really not he said Lebron only got all time scoring Leader because of longevity but failed to mention Kobe played 20 years why he didn’t break it Dirk played 20 years why he didn’t break it Vincent played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Derrick fisher played 20 years why he didn’t break it. Not to mention Kobe an Dirk are too 10 in scoring so why not go for it.
He said Jordan 6 championships an 6-0 record that makes him the goat but Bull Russell has 11 championships. So that means he the goat.
He mention Jordan stats an statistics like we never had a wilt chamberlain.
Not to mention Jordan is not number 1 an any all time category an only top 10 in points an steals. Lebron is top 10 in damn their an every category.
Even if you take Lebron out the goat conversation their is still a debate their he ain’t the goat of championships or achievements.
In this era where the average points per game for teams is 25 more points in a game, there is no way you compare points scored when MJ points more meaningful. In the cupcake defense league where both teams in the all star game scores 200 points and it is offensive to play defensive you get the point.
Flopping is rampant and carrying the ball is considered a good move and is called “breaking an ankle”. Finally, hand checking was the final nail in the coffin in the Harlem globetrotter type of league
Yup.. I would love to see stats going by % per game rather then total points per game. I bet on average MJ scored 35-40% of all points per game. He even had several games where he was over 50% of all points.
Fake news
Jordan is far better than james, and as a man!
1. Jordan 2. Kobe 3. Everyone else!!
As a hockey fan, the difference I see with basketball and hockey is that there are more specialties/roles in the game. I think in the older eras of basketball (mid '90s and before) to be considered an all-star you have to know fundamentals in all areas and excel at one other. Today the competition seems to be much greater and thus the disparity between good and all-star caliber players in wide.
It's fair to say-and it's taken from hockey when McDavid gets compared to Gretzky- Lebron is the most evolved player. He can quite literally play every positon, in every era and maintain a top 5 status for the same amount of time. Not to say Jordan can't either. The main issue with Jordan is he didn't play enough and it plays to his advantage. The efficiency of his career is redonkulous, but considering that Lebron is remotely close (27ppg for Lebron and 30ppg for Jordan sticks out) the other numbers favor Lebron more, especially in a time where players are much better and defending seems to be about hoping the opposition misses.
Is Jordan the greatest? He could be. I look at Bobby Orr as someone who revolutionized the game of hockey and at the time *he* was the most evolved player. Now Lebron years later, in a more specialized and skillful era, he's the most evolved. The question I want to ask is if having 2 less rings is significant enough that there's no chance? Because the other argument for Lebron over Jordan is teammates. Jordan played with the same teammates who enabled his playstyle for basically his whole career. Lebron for almost half of his career carried teams, he went to a relatively under accomplished "dynasty team" team with the heat for only 4 years, then had Kyrie and Davis take the other half of the load for the last two chips. I think a swiss army knife is more valuable than a hammer, meaning the swiss knife may not be the best tools to have, but they are available. The hammer excels at driving nails and removing nails, but that's about it.
Goats don't flop.
Glad I found your side channel 2lazy2try
Jordan's drive and intensity were second to none. His determination became the inspiration of millions who wanted to play the game. That is his biggest stat. That is why he is the greatest.
To put not only LeBron ( who is good player , but nothing more than that compare to all the great ones )but any player of any era in the same sentence with the MJ, would be delusional…Mildly expressed…..They 're all good, but MJ is World heritage…The man played in his own league, let alone impact he made on the sport of basketball….Btw,LeBron is playing it’s 20 ish session and got ( after choosing and picking his teammates) 4 rings….Come on kids don’t be lazy , get busy on YT and educate yourselves by watching some MJ games….
MJ didn't need a super team to win titles. He stayed loyal to the Windy City by giving them six championships.