Join us on Pilgrimage to Garabandal and Lourdes, August 22 - 29, 2024 --- Only a few places left! insidethevaticanpilgrimages.wetravel.com/trips/spain-and-france-with-mary-from-garabandal-to-lourdes-inside-the-vatican-pilgrimages-88716059
Thanks to Dr. Moynihan for inviting, encouraging, and mentoring the next generation of Apologetics...that says a lot about You!! GOD BLESS YOU BOTH...An Excellent & Insightful Interview.🙏🙏
Bravo, gentleman! Learned about this and much more when I reverted in ‘95. I too had horrible catechesis in Catholic School. I didn’t Confirm with my 8th grade class. When in the lower grades, I saw the changes of the nuns without habits and wearing jackets and knee length skirts, some weren’t nun’s anymore- very confusing. As I got older the reverence at Mass got worse and worse. Especially standing at the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, during Holy Communion, felt banners, Communion rail gone, etc. Crazy times. It was my child and mostly adulthood parish. In 2005 we had a new priest. I was on the renovations committee. We had a Communion rail installed again, ad orientem, more kneeling, no more felt banners! I had been receiving on the tongue before he came, but over the last 20 years so many more do now. At that time I also started veiling because the new priest had pamphlets out on veiling. It was beautiful and I took it to heart. I was the awkward one for many years and eventually more ladies did. There weren’t any Latin Masses for a long time in our area, at least that anyone knew of. Around 2014 or so. I moved away, and had to drive an hour in any direction for Sunday Latin Mass. Finally, we have one about a half hour away, which I love the most out of the others. Our state has, I think, the most or one of the most TLM Masses, whether a society or diocesan. People can go to latinmass.com to find one near you- hopefully! Have to enlarge the map and to which continent your on. It’s great when traveling because you can find the Masses almost wherever you go. God bless!
I agree @matthew_gaspers about part 2 of the Mass of the Ages. So well laid out and does a wonderful job of comparing the Roman Rite and the N.O. It is astonishing how much was stripped out or changed in the N.O. modern rite.
If Paul VI realized what Bugnini was up to, why didn’t he reverse course while there was still time and re-introduce the Latin Mass. also, if Pope Benedict realized the unfortunate changes in the offertory, why didn’t he as Pope at least re-introduce the old offertory in the new Mass. I always hear how Cardinal Ratzinger lamented the changes to the liturgy and yet as Pope, he had the power to restore and he never did a thing.
I wonder why there was a swift canonization of Pope Paul VI when he seems to have some serious weak leadership in his time and they are affecting us today.
I pray you recognize your disrespect and lack of charity toward Dr. Moynihan. He’s no slouch regarding the Faith. This is a genuine conversation not just an interview to market a book. Try be grateful that Dr. Moynihan takes considerable time and resources to bring these incredible videos to us. You can also read Catholic Family News to get much more of the good Matt Gaspers.
There are about three passges which are critiically important. Trent shows this clarification. It would be a pity not to have a true host after 2 thousand years. Transposition was the glue that made the realization of the true mass real.
There are other things that have contributed to the loss of faith: the removal of the communion rail, allowing the lay person to move about the sanctuary, too easily , inability to receive Jesus kneeling, and on the tongue, Eucharistic ministers to distribute, holy communion and touch the sacred vessels and most of all the host. A choir singing, beautiful music to assist prayer is needed rather than community singing that becomes a distraction to prayer. I like the English language because I don’t want to be constantly involved with translating so I can figure out where we are in the Liturgy if the priest can’t be heard well. Perhaps the best solution is taking the Latin mass and do an exact translation in the vernacular. Yes, the mass is truly a sacrifice, a holy sacrifice of Jesus to which we unite our daily lives. Virginia
Robert you’re usually less interruptive and usually you give the other person more time to speak. Not so this time.☺️ I’m guessing you didn’t want your audience to hear Matt speaking his points of view too much just in case it crosses the “sacred line” of getting flack from the big bosses up in Rome. That’s just my guess. However, thank you for bringing these discussions and for bringing Fr Murr so often. I wish Matt had more time to speak this time. The new Mass made Jesus too familiar and so worship also has become just like another check box for Sundays for most people who do still go. Nothing sublime and sacred anymore. God bless.
I don't think I've the skill to speak without giving offense and while dramatic... I pulled the following from an old notebook: "The Novus Ordo is to worship what Frankenstein is to man; a fabrication. Technically alive but monstrous. A prisoner of the machinations of disordered minds, violating the 3rd commandment while weaponizing the 4th against the 1st."
I have only been exposed to the Novus Ordo my whole life, and I have always as best I can remember been aware that the Mass was the sacrifice represented. In fact, I think Protestants did the work of reinforcing that idea in their rebuke of our practice because I remember several times the priest responding to this criticism reiterating that the mass was in fact bringing us back to witness the same eternal sacrifice (paraphrasing) rather than repeating it. I think the real problem is a lack of catechesis within the home and the onslaught of modern immoral ideologies that started in the 1960s. This is a bigger problem than the change in liturgy. As far as TLM activists or apologists, I often see comments by their "followers" that seem to put down or condescend toward Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo and even sometimes suggest that one should not even attend a Novus Ordo mass if a TLM is not available. I find that level of fanatism disheartening since I for one would not give up the Eucharist for the sake of adhering to an ideal or as a means to protest the Novus Ordo. It seems that some people idolize the TLM itself over the Eucharist. I would be more than happy if the liturgy and other rituals reverted to what is ancient, traditional and more reverent, but there is definitely an air of something divisive that permeates through some TLM communities. Reverting back to the TLM itself I don't think is enough to fix the problems we are facing now. I have been to Orthodox liturgy when I was studying in Bulgaria, and I would see several people socializing instead of listening possibly because the language was in Old Slavonic and not understood by the people in attendance. If today's Catholics were suddenly forced to attend TLM, there will still be those lacking in catechesis and awareness. There are more factors than just the liturgy itself that have led to the downfall of practicing Catholics such as a laxation of the ancient Catholic practices like fasting or the priest not being more vocal about regular confessions. Right now, it seems that TLM naturally leads to more reverent attendance, but that is only because most of the people that attend have gone out of their way to attend. So, of course there are more serious Catholics at TLM.
I agree with your insights that there needs to be more than reversion to more traditional liturgy. Faithful, on-going catechesis, re-embracing the Sacred Culture of Catholic life and worship, cherishing & supporting authentic family life &the Sacramentsl roles of husbands and wives - especially from our Bishops who direct the priests (for good or bad, they do!).
I often wonder if the introduction of laity as "Eucharist Ministers" has contributed to the now well known statistics of lack of reverence and belief in the Real Presence .Often the priest allows/encourages the EM only while he remains sitting, as if they substitute his priestly presence. One notices even in NO parishes that more are only receiving from the anointed hands of the priest and know the significance.. The Latin Masses are increasingly well attended and well loved by the youth and young families and will never have EMs.
Latin is one of the three sacred languages. Seems appropriate to be used in a sacred place like a catholic church. Also another good reason to use Latin is satan hates it.
Im sorry but the old Mass the Preist prayed to God at the true altar, not facing the people. Many prayers were said without us hearing in Latin. It wasnt just Bugnini, but included Protestant Ministers. This is a known fact now, there is no covering this up. We must face this and return to the correct Mass. English or Latin I dont mind, but the Mass must go back to its correct form.
Oh yes, TLM is far from me and I attend N.O. I remember TLM changing to N.O. and today's N.O. is nothing like the original. In saying that it was a tremendous loss from the beginning. So many Nuns and Priests left along with some parishioners which worsened over time. The N.O. today is Protestant. I go because my Priest is reverent and says many prayers under his breath as he circles the altar with incense. I will find a TLM hopefully.
I converted to Catholicism 40 years ago. I'm a conservative and I prefer the tlm. However, when looking at the actual outline without opinion side by side there is absolutely nothing heretical about the Novus Ordo. This was not just a factual comparison, there is obvious bias. I have been to Novus Ordo masses that are amazingly reverent with a good amount of Latin, ad orientem, communion rail et cetera. In fact, Vatican ii never specified that the mass was not to be celebrated ad orientem. If the horrible excesses and abuses, which were never intended by the second Vatican Council, had not occurred there would not be this much uproar. The abuses did not occur because of Vatican II they occurred because our society was leaning left and liberal and horrible people used the excuse of the changes to bring forth terrible abuses. I do not believe that the church would be growing as much as it is in the 3rd world if the Latin Mass were the norm at this time. Even Eastern Orthodoxy carries out the liturgy in the language of the people in the area. And they are very much stuck on tradition. Many of the Church councils of the past mentioned reform as one of the reasons for the council and in that way Vatican II was not unique. The idea that tribal Africans are going to attend a mass given in Latin is ridiculous. Maronite Catholic liturgies have always been in the vernacular with plenty of Arabic and Aramaic thrown in. Maybe there was some wisdom in Vatican II after all. It's hard to go and proclaim the gospel to the entire world if you use a language they don't understand. You are speaking from personal frustration and what you wish to be the case. In fact the "Mass of the ages" had changed over time. Were the original Masses held in the Holy Land and in the areas in the East the traditional Latin mass? Did St Peter celebrate using the traditional Latin mass? Have you read the description of the Mass by St Justin Martyr? Is it the traditional Latin Mass? I firmly believe that had the Catholic Church at the Second Vatican Council changed the Mass to the original one used in the church nearly 2000 years ago you people would still be complaining because it wouldn't have been reverent enough. Communion in the hand, leavened bread, oh my goodness how that real Mass of the ages would not have been accepted by you and today would be considered unholy by many so called traditionalists. In the days of the TLM most masses were not high masses and some masses could be very brief. I have been at a tlm many years ago that lasted barely 25 minutes. Also remember that there was no homily that was required in the TLM. Though it became customary, it was not required. Additionally, there was no definitive Epiclesis. "Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ." Yes, the tlm has more verbiage, and in my opinion it is more hopefully, but it has deficiencies too. Remember that the pope and the magisterium have the right and the power to alter the form of the mass, and they have actually done so through the centuries. It is still the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ we receive.
Gosh.have we gone so far. I am so sorry.Our Lady saw this and insistent in the 1960. The 3rd secret is all about Trent. She did her very best right to 2000. I miss the old mass. We were all shocked.
Join us on Pilgrimage to Garabandal and Lourdes, August 22 - 29, 2024 --- Only a few places left! insidethevaticanpilgrimages.wetravel.com/trips/spain-and-france-with-mary-from-garabandal-to-lourdes-inside-the-vatican-pilgrimages-88716059
You should make it la salette and NOT garanbadal.
Praying that the restoration of the Mass of the Ages returns soon!
@EasternChristian333The Mass of all time. ;)
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi , AND Lex Vivendi: What is prayed, is what is believed, is what is lived!
Thank you gentlemen! Excellent analysis on this most important question.
Thanks you for a very important discussion of the origin of the Novis Ordo and how it was foisted on the Church.
Thanks to Dr. Moynihan for inviting, encouraging, and mentoring the next generation of Apologetics...that says a lot about You!! GOD BLESS YOU BOTH...An Excellent & Insightful Interview.🙏🙏
Please let Matt speak. Thank you and God bless.
I was just listening to the councle of trent catechism and it was talking about the commandments and it's a real eye-opener.
Bravo, gentleman! Learned about this and much more when I reverted in ‘95. I too had horrible catechesis in Catholic School. I didn’t Confirm with my 8th grade class. When in the lower grades, I saw the changes of the nuns without habits and wearing jackets and knee length skirts, some weren’t nun’s anymore- very confusing. As I got older the reverence at Mass got worse and worse. Especially standing at the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, during Holy Communion, felt banners, Communion rail gone, etc. Crazy times. It was my child and mostly adulthood parish. In 2005 we had a new priest. I was on the renovations committee. We had a Communion rail installed again, ad orientem, more kneeling, no more felt banners! I had been receiving on the tongue before he came, but over the last 20 years so many more do now. At that time I also started veiling because the new priest had pamphlets out on veiling. It was beautiful and I took it to heart. I was the awkward one for many years and eventually more ladies did. There weren’t any Latin Masses for a long time in our area, at least that anyone knew of. Around 2014 or so. I moved away, and had to drive an hour in any direction for Sunday Latin Mass. Finally, we have one about a half hour away, which I love the most out of the others. Our state has, I think, the most or one of the most TLM Masses, whether a society or diocesan. People can go to latinmass.com to find one near you- hopefully! Have to enlarge the map and to which continent your on. It’s great when traveling because you can find the Masses almost wherever you go. God bless!
Would like to hear more from Matt. WE do need to hear about this and let others interact in these Conversations.
Yes, back to the original!
I agree @matthew_gaspers about part 2 of the Mass of the Ages. So well laid out and does a wonderful job of comparing the Roman Rite and the N.O. It is astonishing how much was stripped out or changed in the N.O. modern rite.
How many souls have been lost? I don’t agree that there is no concern with this back and forth between Popes.
Waterford. 🇮🇪 Ireland
From England.
If Paul VI realized what Bugnini was up to, why didn’t he reverse course while there was still time and re-introduce the Latin Mass. also, if Pope Benedict realized the unfortunate changes in the offertory, why didn’t he as Pope at least re-introduce the old offertory in the new Mass. I always hear how Cardinal Ratzinger lamented the changes to the liturgy and yet as Pope, he had the power to restore and he never did a thing.
Pressure from St. G. Mafia and others. Globalist progressives.
This had been planned for decades maybe close to a century.
Exactly.
Plus V encyclical “Quo Primum” re the old Mass - important
More Matt Gaspars please !!!
Generations ruined. An entire civilization, in fact.
I wonder why there was a swift canonization of Pope Paul VI when he seems to have some serious weak leadership in his time and they are affecting us today.
You mean VI and they rushed his canonization for no reason
Talk, talk and ore talk. Please let Matt speak, so we can get to the core and substance of the issue without much delay.
I pray you recognize your disrespect and lack of charity toward Dr. Moynihan. He’s no slouch regarding the Faith. This is a genuine conversation not just an interview to market a book. Try be grateful that Dr. Moynihan takes considerable time and resources to bring these incredible videos to us. You can also read Catholic Family News to get much more of the good Matt Gaspers.
There are about three passges which are critiically important. Trent shows this clarification. It would be a pity not to have a true host after 2 thousand years. Transposition was the glue that made the realization of the true mass real.
There are other things that have contributed to the loss of faith: the removal of the communion rail, allowing the lay person to move about the sanctuary, too easily , inability to receive Jesus kneeling, and on the tongue, Eucharistic ministers to distribute, holy communion and touch the sacred vessels and most of all the host. A choir singing, beautiful music to assist prayer is needed rather than community singing that becomes a distraction to prayer. I like the English language because I don’t want to be constantly involved with translating so I can figure out where we are in the Liturgy if the priest can’t be heard well. Perhaps the best solution is taking the Latin mass and do an exact translation in the vernacular. Yes, the mass is truly a sacrifice, a holy sacrifice of Jesus to which we unite our daily lives. Virginia
You mean lay extraordinary "ministers". A priest is an ordinary minister
@@femaleKCRoyalsFan Yes, that is what I mean.
Robert you’re usually less interruptive and usually you give the other person more time to speak. Not so this time.☺️ I’m guessing you didn’t want your audience to hear Matt speaking his points of view too much just in case it crosses the “sacred line” of getting flack from the big bosses up in Rome. That’s just my guess. However, thank you for bringing these discussions and for bringing Fr Murr so often. I wish Matt had more time to speak this time. The new Mass made Jesus too familiar and so worship also has become just like another check box for Sundays for most people who do still go. Nothing sublime and sacred anymore. God bless.
I agree, and it seems like he was making a lot of excuses for those who promulgated the new mass.
I haven’t listened yet but I’m wondering if he wanted to voice his points of interest as he is scheduled to write a book on this topic.
I don't think I've the skill to speak without giving offense and while dramatic... I pulled the following from an old notebook: "The Novus Ordo is to worship what Frankenstein is to man; a fabrication. Technically alive but monstrous. A prisoner of the machinations of disordered minds, violating the 3rd commandment while weaponizing the 4th against the 1st."
I have only been exposed to the Novus Ordo my whole life, and I have always as best I can remember been aware that the Mass was the sacrifice represented. In fact, I think Protestants did the work of reinforcing that idea in their rebuke of our practice because I remember several times the priest responding to this criticism reiterating that the mass was in fact bringing us back to witness the same eternal sacrifice (paraphrasing) rather than repeating it. I think the real problem is a lack of catechesis within the home and the onslaught of modern immoral ideologies that started in the 1960s. This is a bigger problem than the change in liturgy. As far as TLM activists or apologists, I often see comments by their "followers" that seem to put down or condescend toward Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo and even sometimes suggest that one should not even attend a Novus Ordo mass if a TLM is not available. I find that level of fanatism disheartening since I for one would not give up the Eucharist for the sake of adhering to an ideal or as a means to protest the Novus Ordo. It seems that some people idolize the TLM itself over the Eucharist. I would be more than happy if the liturgy and other rituals reverted to what is ancient, traditional and more reverent, but there is definitely an air of something divisive that permeates through some TLM communities. Reverting back to the TLM itself I don't think is enough to fix the problems we are facing now. I have been to Orthodox liturgy when I was studying in Bulgaria, and I would see several people socializing instead of listening possibly because the language was in Old Slavonic and not understood by the people in attendance. If today's Catholics were suddenly forced to attend TLM, there will still be those lacking in catechesis and awareness. There are more factors than just the liturgy itself that have led to the downfall of practicing Catholics such as a laxation of the ancient Catholic practices like fasting or the priest not being more vocal about regular confessions. Right now, it seems that TLM naturally leads to more reverent attendance, but that is only because most of the people that attend have gone out of their way to attend. So, of course there are more serious Catholics at TLM.
I agree with your insights that there needs to be more than reversion to more traditional liturgy. Faithful, on-going catechesis, re-embracing the Sacred Culture of Catholic life and worship, cherishing & supporting authentic family life &the Sacramentsl roles of husbands and wives - especially from our Bishops who direct the priests (for good or bad, they do!).
I don't know why you have guests on your show . You never let them talk
I often wonder if the introduction of laity as "Eucharist Ministers" has contributed to the now well known statistics of lack of reverence and belief in the Real Presence .Often the priest allows/encourages the EM only while he remains sitting, as if they substitute his priestly presence. One notices even in NO parishes that more are only receiving from the anointed hands of the priest and know the significance.. The Latin Masses are increasingly well attended and well loved by the youth and young families and will never have EMs.
If you die in mortal sin, the Tridentine Mass and speaking perfect Latin won't save you from damnation!!
New liturgy is grab the Eucharist and run.
Does it have felt banners?
Latin is one of the three sacred languages. Seems appropriate to be used in a sacred place like a catholic church. Also another good reason to use Latin is satan hates it.
Im sorry but the old Mass the Preist prayed to God at the true altar, not facing the people. Many prayers were said without us hearing in Latin.
It wasnt just Bugnini, but included Protestant Ministers. This is a known fact now, there is no covering this up. We must face this and return to the correct Mass. English or Latin I dont mind, but the Mass must go back to its correct form.
I think most Novus Ordo Mass Attendees would pick "Celebration" as that one word to describe the Mass...a lot LOST!!!
Oh yes, TLM is far from me and I attend N.O. I remember TLM changing to N.O. and today's N.O. is nothing like the original. In saying that it was a tremendous loss from the beginning. So many Nuns and Priests left along with some parishioners which worsened over time.
The N.O. today is Protestant. I go because my Priest is reverent and says many prayers under his breath as he circles the altar with incense.
I will find a TLM hopefully.
Let the guest speak. Please.
I converted to Catholicism 40 years ago. I'm a conservative and I prefer the tlm. However, when looking at the actual outline without opinion side by side there is absolutely nothing heretical about the Novus Ordo. This was not just a factual comparison, there is obvious bias. I have been to Novus Ordo masses that are amazingly reverent with a good amount of Latin, ad orientem, communion rail et cetera. In fact, Vatican ii never specified that the mass was not to be celebrated ad orientem. If the horrible excesses and abuses, which were never intended by the second Vatican Council, had not occurred there would not be this much uproar. The abuses did not occur because of Vatican II they occurred because our society was leaning left and liberal and horrible people used the excuse of the changes to bring forth terrible abuses. I do not believe that the church would be growing as much as it is in the 3rd world if the Latin Mass were the norm at this time. Even Eastern Orthodoxy carries out the liturgy in the language of the people in the area. And they are very much stuck on tradition. Many of the Church councils of the past mentioned reform as one of the reasons for the council and in that way Vatican II was not unique.
The idea that tribal Africans are going to attend a mass given in Latin is ridiculous. Maronite Catholic liturgies have always been in the vernacular with plenty of Arabic and Aramaic thrown in. Maybe there was some wisdom in Vatican II after all. It's hard to go and proclaim the gospel to the entire world if you use a language they don't understand. You are speaking from personal frustration and what you wish to be the case. In fact the "Mass of the ages" had changed over time. Were the original Masses held in the Holy Land and in the areas in the East the traditional Latin mass? Did St Peter celebrate using the traditional Latin mass? Have you read the description of the Mass by St Justin Martyr? Is it the traditional Latin Mass? I firmly believe that had the Catholic Church at the Second Vatican Council changed the Mass to the original one used in the church nearly 2000 years ago you people would still be complaining because it wouldn't have been reverent enough. Communion in the hand, leavened bread, oh my goodness how that real Mass of the ages would not have been accepted by you and today would be considered unholy by many so called traditionalists.
In the days of the TLM most masses were not high masses and some masses could be very brief. I have been at a tlm many years ago that lasted barely 25 minutes. Also remember that there was no homily that was required in the TLM. Though it became customary, it was not required. Additionally, there was no definitive Epiclesis. "Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ." Yes, the tlm has more verbiage, and in my opinion it is more hopefully, but it has deficiencies too. Remember that the pope and the magisterium have the right and the power to alter the form of the mass, and they have actually done so through the centuries. It is still the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ we receive.
Gosh.have we gone so far. I am so sorry.Our Lady saw this and insistent in the 1960. The 3rd secret is all about Trent. She did her very best right to 2000. I miss the old mass. We were all shocked.
I am very sad.
Missing the point.Badly.
Semplicemente non sono d'accordo. Per esempio, penso che Bambi sia un pesce. Sai, questo mi ricorda uno scherzo...
Wa
All you guys do is talk, nobody does anything but talk.🤮Mike Voris clean up and come back the Church needs you.