There are moments in the book where I said '' this is the most dragging shit I ever read ''. And there are also moments where I said '' this is the most epic shit I ever read ''. And the cycle continues.
Still patiently waiting for Jake's review of book 3 in Wheel of time :D your skits are great though. My girlfriend and I like you and Nadia's channel. Keep up the great work man!
WoT romances are just like: page 637: *she swap places with her friend because he was so annoying that she couldn't bear one more minute next to him* page 640: *she couldn't help but fantasize when he would look at her the same way he did when he kissed her forehead before*
irl romance be like: Start of Class: she picks up her books and moves to the other side of the room when he sits down next to her During lessons in Class: she spent entire class throwing him looks and glances and grows more and more irate and insecure when he does not pay her any attention End of Class: OMG HE HATES ME NOW Next Lesson: comes in late and sits down next to him passing him notes asking to fuck in the bathroom. And that's... How I Met You Mother, and why you should always have a condom or two in your pocket at all times kids.
I'm in book 12 right now, for some reason the slog wasn't that bad for me, I remember my dad telling me how boring and repetitive it gets, but once I got to it it wasn't that bad. It definitely took me longer to get through than the other books, but I felt engaged through most of it, even if only to get to the end where Robert Jordan likes to shove all the major events.
The worst of the slog is definitely book 10, book 9 was slow, but book 10 was the only one that I thought "the editor didn't do a good job here, this should be a 200 page book".
Matt is one of the best characters in fantasy and his storyline rarely drags. And I definitely agree re-reading. It’s better the second and third time, and it was instantly one of my favourites the first time I read it.
Robert Jordan had no idea on how to write a female character. Being a strong woman in his books is mainly being annoying af. And something happened with Mat on the 7th book, that was treated as a joke, but was no fun at all and made me quit the series entirely.
I dont think it was meant as a joke. I wouldnt even say its meant as anything in particular since I don't know what Robert Jordan was saying, but in my interpretation it was supposed to show how men could struggle with that issue, but because they are men they society has made them think that its ok to repress themselves and chalk up that negative experience as a joke, because as Mat stated multiple times through that arc along the lines of "I am man and this isnt suppose to happen to men". Mat dealing with it and enduring it is in my opinion a realistic societal pressure. You don't like the depiction of it probably because you are reading through your eyes and through your thought process and not the thought process of the person's whose POV its being told from. Like for example I found Tuon absolutely disgusting as a human being but other people liked her. I don't think Robert Jordan saying slaves are happier as slaves meant he thought slavery was good. He was trying to amplify how vile that mindset is.
Thanks for this review! I'm currently reading Book 4 of WoT and I love it (swordman's forms too! I love that we are spared tedious descriptions of sword movements and instead we get definitions that I find rather poetic or sometimes funny)
Those are actually taken directly from real life sword forms and, also real life martial arts. So not only is it poetic it also conveys lots of concepts into very simple sentences. And, finally it allows you to build a mental picture in your head of how sword fighting evolved in the wot universe with some forms specifically designed to counter other forms and, how they all take names that imply what they do.
I've been a Wot for over 25 years, entire adult life. People starting the series now are blessed because they never had to wait 3 years between books. In fact, due to length, there is an old joke... "The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass...A wind rises in the Mountains of Mist. This is not a beginning or end, because their is f!#@ing end to the Wheel of Time.
Warning spoilers ahead. I have to disagree that the world building was good. He had a lot of countries sure. But all their cultures were one dimensional. Everyone from Tear talked about pike fish. Everyone from certain countries dressed all the same. I would prefer less countries and more actual dimension to the people and places. I also felt like the whole taveren thing was annoying. It felt like a cheat code to get your characters everything they need and to always win. The sexism was really annoying but I noticed that it calmed down a bit with Brandon Sanderson. There weren't as many women getting tossed over knees to be spanked. I also really dislike the harem Rand has. I thought it was going to be necessary at the end because Elaine and Avienda were going to be the two female channelers with him and Min would do something but nope. He just gets all the women. He also seems to like Elaine for no reason and she has just decided to be in love with him for no reason. I at least cheered for Avienda and his relationship and I kind of get Min. And Mat getting raped and then thinking fondly of his rapist? No thanks. And everyone was already OP by like book 3. I kind of get Ninieve because she is supposed to be OP but I am supposed to just believe that Mat who was on his deathbed 2 days ago was totally chill sparing with the two greatest young swordsmen of his generation AT THE SAME TIME and win? Okayyyyy same with Rand being a bladesmaster already. Sureeeee why not. He had like 4 lessons from Lan. That's all he needs. And I completely agree with the other commenter about the forsaken and how boring they are as bad guys. Besides Grendal they seem to be barely inconviences. And the dark one was too abstract to really feel threatened by. I remember reading the first book and thinking it was as if lord of the rings and dune had a baby and Dragonlance was the babysitter. I hate all the different magic systems. There is the one power (split into the two genders), the true power, the dream world, being linked to wolves, singing as magic, magical objects, etc. After awhile when another thing was introduced I was just like, sureeee just throw that in too. Who cares. I also hate that he just would skip battles. I would be like, oh cool we are getting to a good moment! (Ex. Mat fighting Culloden) and then we get a time jump instead and the battle is done. I found that the set up for things and their payouts were often spread over books. I like having grand overarching storyline but I prefer getting most of the current story resolved. That doesn't happen for multiple books. I found the slog started much earlier on book 6 for me. There was so much in all the books that I wish a different editor had done the series because it could have been better with multiple things cut. For me, the time investment I don't think is worth it for too many people. I am still conflicted if the time I spent was worth it. I really liked Mat so I guess so? And reading about a character that was descending into madness was also a little cool.
It's funny women get offended by sexism. In the series, women constantly emotionally, physically, and sexually abuse men, even their husbands/lovers. Whether it's having a husband beaten, punching, slapping (even using magic on him and slapping), cutting or stabbing him with a dagger, rapping him via having authority and tying him up (and a woman's murdering a man isn't a crime), or having sex with him while he's unconscious dreaming. And so much not caring if thousands of men die, the mains freak out if a woman dies? Rand would wouldn't kill a forsaken (who is in the act of killing people) just because it's in female form? Dumb beyond reason. Mat was the only character of the mains that felt like an actual person.
@@rapturedmourning I hated the whole thing. Not just the women abuse from the men but also the abuse the men recieve from the women. Everything you said too. Sexism works both ways.
And it would be fine if one or two characters had those sexist ideas because that's kind of realistic but literally every women being like, 'all men are stupid and we think better than them.' And all the men being like, 'women, you just can't understand them. Awe shucks.' Got really old and annoying fast
I agree with most of what you said. The SEXISM. The spanking! The crossing of arms over breasts! 🙈 I nearly left the series a few times because of that. I do feel like it’s a worthwhile read in the end but deffo all the females just waiting to rape males and the above mentioned shit could’ve been left out.
I love the sword forms. It allows the imagination to figure out what they are based on the title, and most of the time it's really easy to figure. It's so unique and different than other books that it's enjoyable. But I understand why it wouldn't be for some people.
His fetish with people being slapped on their backsides is weird. As is the 1000 times he writes "She crossed her arms under her breasts." Just as people do "fan edits" of Star Wars movies, I wouldn't mind seeing a properly edited wheel of time series.
Im glad you mentioned the slog. I started the series in 1996, I had to wait for each new book for years. After re-reading the series several times between publications, after the slog, where nothing happenned with no story arc, I decided to wait for the series to end before starting again. For 10 years, I would check bookstores to see if the series had ended yet, and it hadn't. It taught me a valuable lesson: never start a series until you know it has a published conclusion.
Against that, I have learned two equally valuable lessons equal to this one. The first is, if you wish to start a long series when it is completely published, make sure your local book store has access to all titles before purchase. Otherwise, you will find all but one book available, or more titles missing. Some book stores may not restock that title once it is sold out for days, weeks, months, or never intends to restock it at all. Also, be aware of e-books from certain companies. Many of these have limited lives on devices and sites. Once they are too old, the books you own may be removed from your library after a set time, and book downloads may not open, or even register in your library.
My favorite (and by that I mean my most unnecessarily ridiculous) swordsman’s form is “cat walks across the courtyard”, which isn’t even a swordsman’s form, but is basically just what it sounds like: the swordsman just walking. Because it would’ve been too plain for Jorsdan to just write “that person walked towards…” 😂
"just walking" Incorrect. It displays a casual attitude, alert but unconcerned with one's surroundings. It could be seen as confidence, arrogance or both. That is rather important in the scene where Rand meets the Amyrlin. Lan wanted him to appear as more than just some kid.
The slog relates to when the books were being released. We had to wait so long between books back then. We'd get a slow book. Wait another year, slow book. Another book, main characters aren't even in it. Now that all of the books are out, it's not as much of a slog. "It's so hard to get through the slog." No, it's not. Just read it. It's important. You don't have to wait an unknown amount of time for the next book to come out. You don't have to see RJ die, and wonder if the series will ever be finished. Don't let the spooky "slog" keep you from reading the series.
I'm absolutely loving WoT so far! About to finish book seven, having started about a year ago.... it's taken a while, but I want to really enjoy the series
Just finished the series this week and WOW what a series!! Absolutely my favorite world building of all time, and the character development may also be my favorite ever. I can see myself appreciating the whole series so much more now that I’ve finished it, definitely a series I’ll have to revisit in a couple years.
So many of your negatives were massive positives to me lol, I think it’s fair to include them as a word of warning to those about to read this series, but so many of these points can be just as strong.
I can say that I agree with almost all of your points. I’ve only read three books of the series yet and halfway through the fourth but I’m already experiencing the things you highlighted in this video. Well explained..
@@bencressman6110 I can see what u mean. Just finished the fourth and it’s disappointing. Throughout the whole book he hyped the story and at the end just pfft.. gone.. no climax at all.. why waste so much time explaining small details such as rooms, buildings, clothes just to finish the story abruptly. Hope Brandon Sanderson has made some difference in final books..
The sword forms are mostly described at the" training" parts ( rand with Lan mostly ) and are one of my absolute favorite parts. Once you've built an image in your mind the fight flows so well! Edited for spelling
I'm willing to give it another chance with S2. As he mentioned in this review it also took the books a bit to find its footing so, hopefully, so will the TV series 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽 (Or maybe I'm just naive.. hehe, but I want a good adaptation so bad)
Currently on book 7 so I haven’t hit the slog yet but I don’t understand how simultaneously nothing happens in book 8-10 but also very important events happen.
Oooh I love this video concept, great way to break down the highs and lows of a series! I have personally been stranded at book 6 for a year now, because the character work is such a dealbreaker for me. And yet I keep being drawn in by the world building, it's such a rich and vast world. Reading The Eye of the World gave me such a feeling of comfort and wonder, I really loved all the fantasy goodness. Also, when I first encountered Jordan's combat, I was so confused, lmao. Definitely unique, but I still don't know if I am on board 🤣 Great video!!
good/bad: Soap Opera style- It really hooks you up. At the End of the books, you really want to know, what happens next. bad: Story in the first 3 books: A bunch of people cluelessly wander around, killing "super evil" at the end. It's quite comic to read how Robert Jordan tries to increase "super evil". ugly: Character Progression - Excample: Farmboy holds a sword for the first time - easily beats a veteran soldier.
As Brandon Sanderson explained it, Jordan repeated himself so many times due to no internet and quick RUclips summaries to remind you of what went on in the previous books. That being said, it is noticeable and some will be turned off by it.
His books came out in quick succession though. I can get that if he went by GoT timeliness in book releases but a lot of his books only have a year or two between releases.
A year or two? No matter if you read a ton of books or few a year, that is quite a gap for memory alone. Maybe you have never experienced the scenario i mentioned. Or if you did you were one of the few who would reread the whole series each time a new book was released. Either way, it was his way. I was clear that it existed and was rough. It is a common complaint of Jordan's writing that I agree with. Just trying to share an opinion on why he might have done it. It is very common today to just complain about a person/thing. Truth is, people love this story, for good reason.
This is my favorite series of all time. You covered everything perfectly in this video. I think it will be an amazing small guide for someone who wants to enter this world but does have no idea of what to expect. Sanderson has made the last epic battle in this series the best I have read.
6 months 😱 I am soon done with "Towers of midnight" and plan on being done with the series before the end of the year. In that case it has taken me two years to finish the series and I thought that was quite fast 😅
@@noname3609 Lord of chaos is also way up there in the top tier, it does slow down a bit after 6 but it's not terrible like the slog. Stopping after 5 i's a good point to take a break,then using 6 to catapult yourself back into the best it has to offer
I would consider The Slog as Books 6 - 10. He just got waaaaaay too self-indulgent, and I guess Harriet just didn’t want to edit it down. I can’t stay mad at Path of Daggers though, because that’s the book he signed for me. 😎
The video was great. I'm 100ish pages into The Eye of The World and I'm a fan of the long descriptions. I need to read more before I can have an opinion about characters, though. A series I'd like to see you do an episode of this in is actually The Lord of The Rings. I like it a lot, but even though I like it a lot, i find it overrated, so it would be good to hear your opinion on that.
It has great moments, but also slow and 💩 moments. It has great characters and extremely annoying and 💩 characters. It’s an OK series, given the lack of consistency.
World building is good, but maybe better for a D&D campaign setting than a novel. The magic system is well-conceived and described, but put into action, it gets extremely bloated and contrived to make plot points happen as he wants. Character arcs are weak. As with the romance, there isn't meaningful arc setup/foreshadowing. Suddenly, the girl posse goes from cat fighting to besties. The conflict isn't earned - blustering threats are the default. Constant (not gory) violence accepted as the norm to assert dominance. Main story is fine but there's an incredible amount of repetition and fat and side stories. It's a 0.8 MM to 1.2 MM word main story put into 4.4 MM words. Poor prose/structure/PoV jumping. The reason it's better the 2nd time is because of poor transitions and presentation, not because it has some hidden allegorical meaning.
Book one was so bad that i had to force myself to read it! I love grimdark, character-driven, clever modern fantasy books so maybe that's why I didn't Like this one at all!
I think a lot of the hate of characters is coming from the fact people are reading it with their preconceived notions of things. Most characters are literal children who just 2-3 years earlier had not seen anything more their farms and 50 other human beings, and now have to contend with saving the known universe from utter destruction. Like how many 16-17 year olds do you know who can completely make decisions without emotion, or not hold grudges? Or who do not complain about everything? To expect them to be flawless and accept their lot in life with no qualms in my opinion is such an unrealistic expectation. Of course they are annoying as fuck, especially Nynaeve who was unbearable for like 90% of the series, but that was the exact point and why I think Robert Jordan made beautifully crafted characters. He made these characters with so much flaws to illustrate their humanity regardless of how godly powerful they are. Rand is not a god(well at least not at first?) regardless if he can zap things from existence he deals with the fear of failure, rejection, and feelings of inadequacy. Thoughts he repeats over and over again where it becomes annoying, but they flaws and issues a man his age might have to deal with. As a young man myself I related to some of those things. It's just that his life and emotions are in the context of hey "YOU HAVE TO FIGHT SATAN OR THE WORLD WILL BE REMADE IN HIS IMAGE".
Its so easy to say "PERRIN STFU WE GET IT YOU ARE A BLACKSMITH STOP COMPLAINING" than to accept thats what his life and passion were before everything changed in a blink of an eye and know he has an entire country worth of people he has to take care of and the amount of stress that has to do to a person let alone someone who has not even reached emotional maturity.
I might be totally alone here but I never find the pacing in the latter books an issue. In fact, I enjoy the latter books far more (I know). Events may not be happening quick enough after Book 6, but the characters evolve continuously. By the time at Book 6 , I grow so familiar with the characters that merely reading them on page feels home, and every bit of their character development put smile on my face. Every "lack of event" are also compensated by the epic finale in each book. While before book 4, I find many of the main casts (esp. Rand, Matt) to just be annoying naive child. The worst part is when there is no events and no character developments (Perrin *cough*)
Honestly, I had a very up and down relationship with WoT. I started the series and read the first 4 in quick succession; I really liked it, although I wasn’t blown away by anything. Took a break, then read 5-8. Same experience, although I really liked 5 and 6. Then I started 9 and couldn’t finish it for like 4-5 months. Then I just decided to sit down and grind through 9 and 10 in 2 weeks (which I did) and they were 2 of the worst books I’ve ever read. It was so hard to finish them, which is why I knew I had to keep grinding because otherwise I wouldn’t pick them up again. Then I took a small break, and read 11-14 in quick succession. 11 was great, 12 was my fav in series, 13 was meh, 14 was great, with some phenomenal moments. However, upon reflection, a lot of things just soured on me. I didn’t like any relationship aside from Mat and Tuon, which had the least amount of page time for any relationship by a country mile. I DESPISED Elaine to the point where I let out a frustrated growl every time an Elaine chapter came up. Perrin was always meh. I disliked Rand for the whole series until book 12. Mat was always my fav. I didn’t mined Egwene until Brandon took over, then she joined the ranks of Elaine in hateitude. Most of the characters were just meh for me. Jordan described things too much. He used the same phrases too much. The Forsaken were the worst and least intimidating villains in any fantasy book series I’ve ever read. The finale had some really weird decisions and some let downs. Some things I really liked just disappeared for huge amounts of time, and just weren’t fleshed out too much. I liked the Seanchan culture a lot and found it really interesting, but instead of fleshing them out, the Aeil were the main focus for the whole series and I just didn’t care about them. Also, the magic system was really hard to get into. I couldn’t visualize what they were doing at all, and many things are just done over and over again and I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish. Also, there were MANY deus ex machina moments in the series, which REALLY annoyed me A LOT. This isn’t to say I didn’t like the series, I really loved a lot of it and I’m very glad I’ve read it. It’s just a lot of the negatives really bogged it down. If it was condensed into a 10 book series, I think it may be my. #2 fav series all time (Stormlight is #1), but unfortunately it isn’t and that hurt it. Maybe on a reread I’ll like some of the decisions more, but as of now…. And it’s really too bad that the stupid Amazon show us being made rn. I’ve never seen a show show such little regard for source material, and such obvious narcissism from the writers and directors where they think they can make a better story than Jordan. It’s horrific what they did. I couldn’t even get past episode 3.
Its interesting to me that we have completely opposite opinion on what we liked. I loved aiel and didnt care that much about seanchan. I could vividly imagine the magic when they were weaving it and i admired how Jordan build in deus ex machina into the magic system.
this isn't on topic. but you should check out the powder mage trilogy. it's up in my list of favorite fantasy series along with the WOT and the stormlight archive
I have so many more criticisms than that. I feel like I could do one of those long form edited video essays that go for 4-6 hours showing evidence from the text for each of my points. But doing so would take so much work. I wouldn't recommend the series to anyone, personally.
I found the romances to be the highlights of the books. I cannot reread the Wheel of Time because of how terrible I found the ending to be. I also do not like the magic system in the Wheel of Time.
It's a 4.5 million word series that would be SIGNIFICANTLY better if it were anywhere from 3- 3.5 million words in total. The amount of excess fat is insane, and it has zero right to be there. The pros outweigh the cons for me, as I've read through this series twice now- which is never something anyone would do if that wasn't the case. But geez the over bloating from start to finish really drags this story down from what it could/should be.
I would have appreciated examples about irritating characters. And he started to distinguish between necessity of a character in terms of their development so, for example Nynaeve for long stretches is just unbearable - I think this is due to the ‘flaw’ of unnecessary repetition. Her arc is to grow in self reflection to slight degree but to become a devoted friend and protector with Moraine (who she so resented) for Rand
While I was mostly able to get past it on my read, I do think you could just collectively categorize "the way Jordan writes women and gender dynamics" as an issue for a lot of readers, especially ones less used to the way female characters in fantasy used to be written.
It's funny watching this and knowing that Wheel of Time is going to come after my full Cosmere reading. At least I know to brace myself for books 8-10...
I'm still unconvinced. I looked at these books many times in the bookstores and always put them down to buy something else. Couldn't get over the LOTR copycatting..
Fantastic video, agree on all points. Especially the romance, it is cringe (Perrin and Faila... ew). Also, I felt that in books finished by Sanderson, the characters developed dramatically, especially Matt. Maybe I'm wrong or blasphemous, but I loved the plot and the idea behind wot is brilliant, I just don't think Jordan was a brilliant writer.
Wheel of Time has two major flaws - the pacing (at times), and the male/female relationships (most of the time) - aside from that, it is damn good. I feel like as long as you warn people about those two issues going in, they'll be fine. That said, I also get it if people don't like it or don't want to get into it. Great video!
The antagonists are also ineffective morons. And there's literal boy magic and girl magic. And the protagonists are also stupid. And the dialogue is awful. But other than that, its amazing.
Yeah, that sword form thing already makes it very clear that this series would be a NIGHTMARE for me to read, as I already struggle picturing any action focused scene, let alone COMBAT scenes in my head on a media that is pure text.
Great video!! I just subscribed :) I’m on book 12 and I started reading in January 😮 you’re so right about the slog and the romance 😂 god… the *spoilers* throuple situation was soooooo weird skdhskfh
i always took the instant romance as the primary younger main characters not being able to pick up on adult subtlety. like, there's hints dropped that you'll notice on rereads, but yeah. also, as a slightly older reader who read all of jordan's books as they came out, the repetition was appreciated. the internet wasn't around and i was a teenager for over half the series. there was no easy way to go back and figure out wtf some random character is reacting to sometimes. as an adult who can read the whole series in a couple months, the repetition is noticeable and low-key unnecessary, but it doesn't bother me.
To be fair, Tolkien spends ages describing landscapes. GRR Martin is repetitive in his description of foods the characters are eating. Every writer has his ups and downs I guess.
I don't dislike wot, but I found it to be the most overrated of all time lol. A little communication between characters would have cut the series significantly down. I almost like the forsaken better than the so-called heroes.
Im curious as to which romance you were referring to at the end there. G&B, or G&E, or Demandred, or T&M? They're all like how you described; sudden with no explanation or buildup
I haven't read the books but I watched the TV. I really liked it but it was a bit disappointing the last episode of season 2. I'm not sure if I should read the books or not because some people are like it's amazing but other people are like it's terrible.
Great video and nice analysis! I remember it being said on the forums at the time that the disease had a major bearing on the writing of books 8-9-10... Would you have guessed that from reading them? 😅 Now I'd like the same video for the best fantasy work ever written so far. (Stormlight incoming...) The malazan book of fallen by Steven Erikson
I like the books much more than the adaptation, I have read it several times, typically I'd re-read the previous book before the new one came out & never really had a problem with the pace of the books; I do have several problems with the adaptation
Opinions are different to everyone. Personally i did not care at all for Wheel of time. Compared to Malazan on the other hand was way more interesting and is one of the best of all time.
I got like 5 books deep before deciding it had horribly slow pacing that I wasn't enjoying. Most of the characters I find bland and forgettable, or just annoying. I've read at least 2 dozen other fantasy/sci-fi series, and I don't mind flawed characters. WoT just has annoying main characters with repetitive/tedious habits, and any character development takes too long to keep my interest. Not saying it's bad, just saying why I personally didn't enjoy it. Although it is a bit of an indictment that even big fans of the series say that ENTIRE BOOKS in the middle are so slow and uneventful that they recommend skim reading them.
It is fair to criticize the eye of the world as having a plethora of tropes, particularly the ones lining up with Tolkien’s classic. But honestly, it never bothered me. I wasn’t obsessed with the thought of how similar it was to Frodo’s journey with his band of friends. Why? I’d start with the rich description of the village of Emond’s field and the development of the strong, female civic role in their society. This is not just a thematic coloration we get a whole chapter, showing how. ambitious Egwene is. We see a dynamic between the women’s circle and the men’s domain in the town Frodo was in reality more a middle aged gentleman farmer and rand is a recently minted young man and working sheep herder with a strong father figure. The heron marked sword is not the one ring. I would also conclude with the differentiating concepts of Ta’veren, the Aes Sedai, and the more interactive presence of evil. So in the end the Tolkien framing, is it self, a kind of heroes, journey, framing, and not really a trope, more of an archetype. Finally, as the first novel, having a well worked out structure, probably gave him the confidence to proceed with all of the other innovations around which to develop the core concepts of free will, good and evil, and above all the more deistic construct of the pattern set in motion by the creator.
haha I find it funny that everyone praises the worldbuilding when for me its a bit weak. Magic system (and CC) is what this series excells. I mean dont get me wrong, I LOVE the Seanchan and also Shara and some aspects of the cultures etc... but most of the Cultures in the westerlands just arent as crafted as needed to be, the countries and cultures blurred up in my mind a lot of times but definitely the worst thing is "How come they all speak the same language but have such distinctive cultures?" all cultures arose from being isolated from others which in turn affects language a lot as well to the point people in Aiel waste shouldnt be able to understand people from Kandor. Also the shape of the map is hilariously bad and how could be that there are "unclaimed lands" in an agricultural society were farmland is the most looked after commodity.... and makes no sense that land is unclaimed by any kingdom at all. But what makes even less sense is that the frontier states of the north chose to live by the waste of the north and the trolloc invaders when having much safer and untainted lands available further south. It would make sense to have said unclaim lands in between this states and the northwaste as a bufer zone, but not how they are currently placed.
I'll start by agreeing with every good, bad and/or ugly point made by everyone in any context. WOT presents reader love and hate opportunities at every turn. When Amazon launched their series I tried to watch and was really disoriented so I re-read the entire book series over the past year. Yes, BTW, I can confirm that Amazon is way, way off. The thing I read in nearly every review ties back to Jordan's gender essentialism. Overcomable by the reader but weird. I found it easiest to create character emotional depth and add emphasis to dialogue just to see the characters with the personalities I felt the had. On face value, a reader could be forgiven for seeing dominant similarities in every character especially by gender. This get much better over the course of the books and i actually wonder how much credit should be given to Brandon Sanderson. I have a perspective I've not heard from other reviews. I think Jordan was headed for 20 books right up to the point he found out he himself was going to die before Book 10. Jordan has world building nailed down and my personal belief was that he would have spent multiple books on the Seanchan AND Shara...but he got cancer instead. I think he and Brandon Sanderson sat down and Brandon said he'd be happy to wrap it all up but was not going to own the entirely to detailing two continents and multiple peoples after Jordan died. Thus, things start to get extremely focused and storylines converge quickly starting in Book 11. SPOILERS - stop here is you're still reading the books! -My belief is that Jordan had this vision of four continental perspectives on governance, the one power and civil rights (Seanchan, Shara, the Waste being the other three). I want to believe he wanted to write details about each presenting a last battle where ALL of those perspective had to be resolved in some global philosophical rendering. The series only gets around to the the continent of main focus where essentially renaissance rules apply and female channelers "gentle" male channelers. We hear a lot about the Seanchan with imperial domination and slavery where female channelers are leashed and treated like K9 units while male channelers are just killed. The Aiel just send their male channelers off the fight/die in the wilderness which comes back to bite them in the end anyway. We learn almost nothing about Shara culture but we are led to belief the male channelers are essentially animals loosed onto the battle field. -Demandred showing up at the end with an entire continental army from Shara was ridiculously insane with zero precursor (nada, none, never mentioned or referred to in any way). I think Jordan planned to address Shara in several later books to bring context well before the last battle. Instead the Shadow get deus ex machina with an entire civilization worth of channelers who are somehow convinced to leap through gateways and join trollocs which they most like had never seen before...?!? The last battle needed to be balanced without the missing Shara books. -Snakes and Foxes...O...K...possibly the oddest kind of expositional tangent I've run across. They add up to exactly nothing in the grand scheme of the story arc. Everything they contribute could have easily been done in a dream sequence or with a ter'angreal. I was waiting for parallel universes or alien influence or infusion of laser guns or...anything that might have made the mental effort I put into remembering anything about these characters worth the brain cells I committed. -Noal (Farstrider) having been everywhere seems like afterthought glue to bring world context; if you erase every place he appears there is no loss of content. -The Seanchan empire suddenly falling off the pages of the book was far too convenient for Sanderson. I bet the original plan for books 10-12 was centered inside Seanchan. Rand was already traveling to the other continent and a much deeper relationship makes sense. In one prologue, they pivoted the Seanchan from Suroth to Tuon quickly and the used the Forsaken to destroy an entire empire in the space of one paragraph. Very not Jordan-like depth. Once the empire was neutered, that entire story line became nothing other than a supporting force for the last battle. No effort was spent at all cleaning up the well developed and fractious cultural battle lines. -I wanted a much deeper wrap-up and/or epilogue.
The sword forms names are descriptive of the movement. Why you did t understand what the swordmen was doing is lost in me. The slog doesn’t exist some of my favourite parts are I. The so called slog.
It’s rare for me to find something with multiple romantic plot lines and absolutely none of them work for me but WoT is that series. I wish Jordan just hadn’t, or kept it to political matches, because what the heck was all that.
A couple of tips to potential readers of WoT from someone who has read it well over a dozen times: DO *NOT* search *anything*: There will be major spoilers. If at all possible, find someone who has read the books, preferably more than once, but knows how to avoid spoilers. There are *many* hints, foreshadowing, red herrings, and things that are not quite what they seem. Even the most casual, seemingly unimportant things seen or said are sometimes major clues to things. Robert Jordan was a master of this. While the books are quite enjoyable without catching the details, I recommend finding reviews of individual books by someone who reviews each book after they have read it for the first time. These won't spoil anything from later books, and having others' thoughts and speculation makes the books even more enjoyable. Recommend reviews: Merphy Napier: ruclips.net/p/PLJCqICJZQGWj3Lz9qVreMkjyerZZur5fT Mike's Book Reviews: ruclips.net/p/PLbz5Ez9ewBm3iwRpunF7V-pL0guxzH9kJ Wheel of Time is a very worth while read.
So far I love the world building. I HATE the writing. It feels like a 12 year old wrote it. Especially the romantic angles are cringe as hell. And I’ve never read more annoying and 2 dimensional characters in my life. Some of the characters are really interesting but several major characters are absolute trash. And so many times I can’t even understand what Jordan is writing. Like he’ll describe something and I’m like ‘that’s just a collection of words that don’t make a cohesive sentence’. It makes me feel that anything can get published in the fantasy genre.
I feel like I dodged a bullet, tried to read this after getting dragged back to fantasy when I heard HBO was making a series called A Game of Thrones, plowed through those, is there more fantasy our there of this caliber, I wondered? Bought a few books from the top of the amazon lists, but for me, nope, mostly just bad writing, won't mention names but most of the big names people throw out when recommending fantasy on reddit, one of them arguable the worst book I have ever finished (morbid angry curiosity, writing decentish, characters/plot just... a disappointment in two parts, started off somewhat intriguing, ended up what the F am I reading?!?!) I am about to start Lies of Locke Lamora, see how that fares. FWIW I loved fantasy back in the 80s, Tolkien got me started of course, Zelazny, moorcock (Eric, Corum, Urlik Skarsol etc, eternal champions series), thieves world series, fafhrd and the grey mouser, Xanth, the infamous Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, Conan, all the early DnD series (first forgotten realms books for ex, where Drizzt is introduced), brooks shanara stuff... just to name a few, sci fi book club member, plus other stuff - Clancy, Steven king, James clavell, Ludlum, Crichton, so many others, but eventually drifted away from fantasy for good for like 3 decades. Then GoT happened and with some trepidation I picked those up and they were amazing, fantastic characters, character arcs, such a real breathing gritty unforgiving world, you could take out the dragons and the magic and it would still be a fantastic story! And then, amongst the other disappointments I tried Eye of the World (which I somehow missed as a younger man), and I couldn't get past the first few chapters. Setting aside the blatant Tolkien lifts/riffs/tributes/whatevers the actual writing was imho not very good. Clunky prose, awkward descriptions, just... unskilled writing in general, I couldn't get past it. So.... nah... there's other books out there, maybe he gets better but I do not care. Ive seen other book tubers describe him as one of the, if not THE greatest fantasy authors of all time but I currently use the 1st book of WoT as a paperweight in the hallway bathroom. I might give it another go but the tv series is not doing it any favors. To be fair I have gone back and read of few authors I remember enjoying as a kid and some of those didn't fare too well either.
I also read this when older after not having read fantasy in a while and I completely agree about the writing level. I actually stopped reading it and started listening to the books on tape because the prose didn't really matter. I also think that anyone in love with the series probably read it as a kid when you are more forgiving of those things. I read Dune just before reading this series and let me tell you, what a change in writing styles. I would recommend Guy Gavriel Kay. I have only read Tigana but it was good. I also loved Neil Gaimen for American Gods.
"You'll read about some characters traveling or something, and then suddenly... they are a couple! There were no warning signs or anything, no." Oh so this is just like one of my favorite japanese exclusive Super Nintendo game called Fire Emblem: Geneaology of the Holy War, where you may be playing for a couple of turns in a battle and all of a sudden, BOOM two characters are married.... just because they spent a few turns next to each other... Ok it's actually a bit deeper you need to do this in multiple battles, and there are OPTIONAL interactions between them that help boost their.... LOVE status that determine how..... in love? they are? But when the actual marriage comes, it's literally out of nowhere, no warning, nothing, you literally need to go to a menu to see if a unit got married.... Fire Emblem is weird, and not even for being a Nintendo franchise that has literal incest in it.
Nice video, I mostly agree with your points, tho I have to say, the more times I go through the series the more I start loving the slog and also how infuriating the characters can be. But completely agree on the romance point, it can be ridiculous
There are moments in the book where I said '' this is the most dragging shit I ever read ''. And there are also moments where I said '' this is the most epic shit I ever read ''. And the cycle continues.
You haven't read a lot then.
This is very relatable 😂
@@iainmore3961 or maybe they have and their taste is just different than yours
@@iainmore3961 yes, i am on book 5.
@@therandominfochannel6619 The haven't read anywhere enough. If they had they would be retracting their words.
constantly impressed at how well-edited and engaging your videos are
Thank you Jake! Glad you found the video engaging!
Still patiently waiting for Jake's review of book 3 in Wheel of time :D your skits are great though. My girlfriend and I like you and Nadia's channel. Keep up the great work man!
Agreed!
My favourite book was the one where Egwene smooths her skirts.
I liked the tugging of the braids, myself
yes, musts needs make sure figure is not obscured by the folds of the fabric
I don't know... The scene where Rand adjusted his sword belt was pretty up there.
WoT romances are just like:
page 637: *she swap places with her friend because he was so annoying that she couldn't bear one more minute next to him*
page 640: *she couldn't help but fantasize when he would look at her the same way he did when he kissed her forehead before*
irl romance be like:
Start of Class: she picks up her books and moves to the other side of the room when he sits down next to her
During lessons in Class: she spent entire class throwing him looks and glances and grows more and more irate and insecure when he does not pay her any attention
End of Class: OMG HE HATES ME NOW
Next Lesson: comes in late and sits down next to him passing him notes asking to fuck in the bathroom.
And that's... How I Met You Mother, and why you should always have a condom or two in your pocket at all times kids.
I'm in book 12 right now, for some reason the slog wasn't that bad for me, I remember my dad telling me how boring and repetitive it gets, but once I got to it it wasn't that bad. It definitely took me longer to get through than the other books, but I felt engaged through most of it, even if only to get to the end where Robert Jordan likes to shove all the major events.
I listened to the audiobooks and even at 1.5 or 1.75x speed my ears were still bleeding out of frustration.
i didnt even notice the slog, ive only read the series once.
I also didn’t have an issue with the slog, and book 5 was the book that I felt like I had to work the most to get through.
The worst of the slog is definitely book 10, book 9 was slow, but book 10 was the only one that I thought "the editor didn't do a good job here, this should be a 200 page book".
Matt is one of the best characters in fantasy and his storyline rarely drags.
And I definitely agree re-reading. It’s better the second and third time, and it was instantly one of my favourites the first time I read it.
Matt or Mat? hehehe
His story rarely drags? Have you read book 10?
“They are in love and nothing more will be said about it” 😂😂😂 love the video style!🎉
Robert Jordan had no idea on how to write a female character. Being a strong woman in his books is mainly being annoying af. And something happened with Mat on the 7th book, that was treated as a joke, but was no fun at all and made me quit the series entirely.
It almost happened to Rand and Perrin too! It makes me wonder if that happened to Jordan in real life.
I dont think it was meant as a joke. I wouldnt even say its meant as anything in particular since I don't know what Robert Jordan was saying, but in my interpretation it was supposed to show how men could struggle with that issue, but because they are men they society has made them think that its ok to repress themselves and chalk up that negative experience as a joke, because as Mat stated multiple times through that arc along the lines of "I am man and this isnt suppose to happen to men". Mat dealing with it and enduring it is in my opinion a realistic societal pressure. You don't like the depiction of it probably because you are reading through your eyes and through your thought process and not the thought process of the person's whose POV its being told from. Like for example I found Tuon absolutely disgusting as a human being but other people liked her. I don't think Robert Jordan saying slaves are happier as slaves meant he thought slavery was good. He was trying to amplify how vile that mindset is.
Thanks for this review! I'm currently reading Book 4 of WoT and I love it (swordman's forms too! I love that we are spared tedious descriptions of sword movements and instead we get definitions that I find rather poetic or sometimes funny)
Those are actually taken directly from real life sword forms and, also real life martial arts. So not only is it poetic it also conveys lots of concepts into very simple sentences. And, finally it allows you to build a mental picture in your head of how sword fighting evolved in the wot universe with some forms specifically designed to counter other forms and, how they all take names that imply what they do.
I've been a Wot for over 25 years, entire adult life. People starting the series now are blessed because they never had to wait 3 years between books. In fact, due to length, there is an old joke...
"The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass...A wind rises in the Mountains of Mist. This is not a beginning or end, because their is f!#@ing end to the Wheel of Time.
Warning spoilers ahead.
I have to disagree that the world building was good. He had a lot of countries sure. But all their cultures were one dimensional. Everyone from Tear talked about pike fish. Everyone from certain countries dressed all the same. I would prefer less countries and more actual dimension to the people and places.
I also felt like the whole taveren thing was annoying. It felt like a cheat code to get your characters everything they need and to always win.
The sexism was really annoying but I noticed that it calmed down a bit with Brandon Sanderson. There weren't as many women getting tossed over knees to be spanked. I also really dislike the harem Rand has. I thought it was going to be necessary at the end because Elaine and Avienda were going to be the two female channelers with him and Min would do something but nope. He just gets all the women. He also seems to like Elaine for no reason and she has just decided to be in love with him for no reason. I at least cheered for Avienda and his relationship and I kind of get Min. And Mat getting raped and then thinking fondly of his rapist? No thanks.
And everyone was already OP by like book 3. I kind of get Ninieve because she is supposed to be OP but I am supposed to just believe that Mat who was on his deathbed 2 days ago was totally chill sparing with the two greatest young swordsmen of his generation AT THE SAME TIME and win? Okayyyyy same with Rand being a bladesmaster already. Sureeeee why not. He had like 4 lessons from Lan. That's all he needs.
And I completely agree with the other commenter about the forsaken and how boring they are as bad guys. Besides Grendal they seem to be barely inconviences. And the dark one was too abstract to really feel threatened by.
I remember reading the first book and thinking it was as if lord of the rings and dune had a baby and Dragonlance was the babysitter.
I hate all the different magic systems. There is the one power (split into the two genders), the true power, the dream world, being linked to wolves, singing as magic, magical objects, etc. After awhile when another thing was introduced I was just like, sureeee just throw that in too. Who cares.
I also hate that he just would skip battles. I would be like, oh cool we are getting to a good moment! (Ex. Mat fighting Culloden) and then we get a time jump instead and the battle is done.
I found that the set up for things and their payouts were often spread over books. I like having grand overarching storyline but I prefer getting most of the current story resolved. That doesn't happen for multiple books.
I found the slog started much earlier on book 6 for me. There was so much in all the books that I wish a different editor had done the series because it could have been better with multiple things cut.
For me, the time investment I don't think is worth it for too many people. I am still conflicted if the time I spent was worth it. I really liked Mat so I guess so? And reading about a character that was descending into madness was also a little cool.
It's funny women get offended by sexism. In the series, women constantly emotionally, physically, and sexually abuse men, even their husbands/lovers. Whether it's having a husband beaten, punching, slapping (even using magic on him and slapping), cutting or stabbing him with a dagger, rapping him via having authority and tying him up (and a woman's murdering a man isn't a crime), or having sex with him while he's unconscious dreaming. And so much not caring if thousands of men die, the mains freak out if a woman dies? Rand would wouldn't kill a forsaken (who is in the act of killing people) just because it's in female form? Dumb beyond reason.
Mat was the only character of the mains that felt like an actual person.
@@rapturedmourning I hated the whole thing. Not just the women abuse from the men but also the abuse the men recieve from the women. Everything you said too. Sexism works both ways.
And it would be fine if one or two characters had those sexist ideas because that's kind of realistic but literally every women being like, 'all men are stupid and we think better than them.' And all the men being like, 'women, you just can't understand them. Awe shucks.' Got really old and annoying fast
I agree with most of what you said. The SEXISM. The spanking! The crossing of arms over breasts! 🙈 I nearly left the series a few times because of that. I do feel like it’s a worthwhile read in the end but deffo all the females just waiting to rape males and the above mentioned shit could’ve been left out.
@@rachelhillman910 agreed! And the “so and so” knows so much better how to talk to women… also got old quick
I love the sword forms. It allows the imagination to figure out what they are based on the title, and most of the time it's really easy to figure. It's so unique and different than other books that it's enjoyable. But I understand why it wouldn't be for some people.
The boar rushes through the comments section. Meets the hammer of banning. Pivots into report for racism.
Pick a page, any page and play the “does he talk about boobs” game?
His fetish with people being slapped on their backsides is weird. As is the 1000 times he writes "She crossed her arms under her breasts." Just as people do "fan edits" of Star Wars movies, I wouldn't mind seeing a properly edited wheel of time series.
There's a lot of blinking as well
Im glad you mentioned the slog. I started the series in 1996, I had to wait for each new book for years. After re-reading the series several times between publications, after the slog, where nothing happenned with no story arc, I decided to wait for the series to end before starting again. For 10 years, I would check bookstores to see if the series had ended yet, and it hadn't. It taught me a valuable lesson: never start a series until you know it has a published conclusion.
Against that, I have learned two equally valuable lessons equal to this one.
The first is, if you wish to start a long series when it is completely published, make sure your local book store has access to all titles before purchase.
Otherwise, you will find all but one book available, or more titles missing. Some book stores may not restock that title once it is sold out for days, weeks, months, or never intends to restock it at all.
Also, be aware of e-books from certain companies. Many of these have limited lives on devices and sites. Once they are too old, the books you own may be removed from your library after a set time, and book downloads may not open, or even register in your library.
My favorite (and by that I mean my most unnecessarily ridiculous) swordsman’s form is “cat walks across the courtyard”, which isn’t even a swordsman’s form, but is basically just what it sounds like: the swordsman just walking. Because it would’ve been too plain for Jorsdan to just write “that person walked towards…” 😂
I love that 😂
It's 'Cat crosses the courtyard' scrub.
"just walking" Incorrect. It displays a casual attitude, alert but unconcerned with one's surroundings. It could be seen as confidence, arrogance or both. That is rather important in the scene where Rand meets the Amyrlin. Lan wanted him to appear as more than just some kid.
@@haplozetetic9519 again: “that person wakled with confidence/confidently towards such and such”
@@subpages I know, nerd. The fact that I couldn't be bothered to memorize it was a testament to it's ridiculousness.
The slog relates to when the books were being released. We had to wait so long between books back then. We'd get a slow book. Wait another year, slow book. Another book, main characters aren't even in it. Now that all of the books are out, it's not as much of a slog. "It's so hard to get through the slog." No, it's not. Just read it. It's important. You don't have to wait an unknown amount of time for the next book to come out. You don't have to see RJ die, and wonder if the series will ever be finished. Don't let the spooky "slog" keep you from reading the series.
Love this format! I’m excited to see you go through other fantasy series.
Thank you!
I'm absolutely loving WoT so far! About to finish book seven, having started about a year ago.... it's taken a while, but I want to really enjoy the series
Just finished the series this week and WOW what a series!! Absolutely my favorite world building of all time, and the character development may also be my favorite ever. I can see myself appreciating the whole series so much more now that I’ve finished it, definitely a series I’ll have to revisit in a couple years.
So many of your negatives were massive positives to me lol, I think it’s fair to include them as a word of warning to those about to read this series, but so many of these points can be just as strong.
I can say that I agree with almost all of your points. I’ve only read three books of the series yet and halfway through the fourth but I’m already experiencing the things you highlighted in this video. Well explained..
It’s gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. The middle books are basically unreadable (by me)
@@bencressman6110 I can see what u mean. Just finished the fourth and it’s disappointing. Throughout the whole book he hyped the story and at the end just pfft.. gone.. no climax at all.. why waste so much time explaining small details such as rooms, buildings, clothes just to finish the story abruptly. Hope Brandon Sanderson has made some difference in final books..
Abruptly, I was tugging my braid while I was watching this video incredulously. Burn Me! ILYENA oh my LOVE! ILYENA! Blood and bloody ashes!
The sword forms are mostly described at the" training" parts ( rand with Lan mostly ) and are one of my absolute favorite parts. Once you've built an image in your mind the fight flows so well!
Edited for spelling
Best series I've ever read but the TV show is absolute garbage
Yes. Amazing book series, and mediocre to infuriatingly terrible tv show.
The TV show is disappointing. It's dosent line up with the books.
I'm willing to give it another chance with S2. As he mentioned in this review it also took the books a bit to find its footing so, hopefully, so will the TV series 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
(Or maybe I'm just naive.. hehe, but I want a good adaptation so bad)
It was never going to be as good as the books but it's definitely not garbage.
@@Lyrazel it really is
lovely premise for a series, can't wait what other series you'll be tackling.
Currently on book 7 so I haven’t hit the slog yet but I don’t understand how simultaneously nothing happens in book 8-10 but also very important events happen.
I love the Wheel of Time and think this was a pretty accurate assessment. Thanks! I like the new series - thanks for the video!
The Wheel of Time is fantastic but definitely not perfect! Thank you!
Oooh I love this video concept, great way to break down the highs and lows of a series! I have personally been stranded at book 6 for a year now, because the character work is such a dealbreaker for me. And yet I keep being drawn in by the world building, it's such a rich and vast world. Reading The Eye of the World gave me such a feeling of comfort and wonder, I really loved all the fantasy goodness.
Also, when I first encountered Jordan's combat, I was so confused, lmao. Definitely unique, but I still don't know if I am on board 🤣
Great video!!
good/bad: Soap Opera style- It really hooks you up. At the End of the books, you really want to know, what happens next.
bad: Story in the first 3 books: A bunch of people cluelessly wander around, killing "super evil" at the end. It's quite comic to read how Robert Jordan tries to increase "super evil".
ugly: Character Progression - Excample: Farmboy holds a sword for the first time - easily beats a veteran soldier.
As Brandon Sanderson explained it, Jordan repeated himself so many times due to no internet and quick RUclips summaries to remind you of what went on in the previous books. That being said, it is noticeable and some will be turned off by it.
His books came out in quick succession though. I can get that if he went by GoT timeliness in book releases but a lot of his books only have a year or two between releases.
A year or two? No matter if you read a ton of books or few a year, that is quite a gap for memory alone. Maybe you have never experienced the scenario i mentioned. Or if you did you were one of the few who would reread the whole series each time a new book was released. Either way, it was his way. I was clear that it existed and was rough. It is a common complaint of Jordan's writing that I agree with. Just trying to share an opinion on why he might have done it. It is very common today to just complain about a person/thing. Truth is, people love this story, for good reason.
This is my favorite series of all time. You covered everything perfectly in this video. I think it will be an amazing small guide for someone who wants to enter this world but does have no idea of what to expect. Sanderson has made the last epic battle in this series the best I have read.
6 months 😱 I am soon done with "Towers of midnight" and plan on being done with the series before the end of the year. In that case it has taken me two years to finish the series and I thought that was quite fast 😅
Great video! Have to admit,,, my favourite part was the Shrek reference 🤣
Hi, loved the video and editing was really interesting!
Nice video ,please continue this for other series too
Totally agree on this. Im into shadow Rising ATM and I love IT!
Ooh you're in for a good time ahead, Fires of Heaven is easily one of the top 3 in the series
@@lachlanrobertson4825 really? What about books 6, 7,8.Are they good? Was thinking to Take a break after fires of heaven.
@@noname3609 Lord of chaos is also way up there in the top tier, it does slow down a bit after 6 but it's not terrible like the slog. Stopping after 5 i's a good point to take a break,then using 6 to catapult yourself back into the best it has to offer
@@lachlanrobertson4825 Thanks dude.
I would consider The Slog as Books 6 - 10. He just got waaaaaay too self-indulgent, and I guess Harriet just didn’t want to edit it down. I can’t stay mad at Path of Daggers though, because that’s the book he signed for me. 😎
The video was great. I'm 100ish pages into The Eye of The World and I'm a fan of the long descriptions. I need to read more before I can have an opinion about characters, though. A series I'd like to see you do an episode of this in is actually The Lord of The Rings. I like it a lot, but even though I like it a lot, i find it overrated, so it would be good to hear your opinion on that.
It has great moments, but also slow and 💩 moments. It has great characters and extremely annoying and 💩 characters. It’s an OK series, given the lack of consistency.
World building is good, but maybe better for a D&D campaign setting than a novel.
The magic system is well-conceived and described, but put into action, it gets extremely bloated and contrived to make plot points happen as he wants.
Character arcs are weak. As with the romance, there isn't meaningful arc setup/foreshadowing. Suddenly, the girl posse goes from cat fighting to besties.
The conflict isn't earned - blustering threats are the default. Constant (not gory) violence accepted as the norm to assert dominance.
Main story is fine but there's an incredible amount of repetition and fat and side stories. It's a 0.8 MM to 1.2 MM word main story put into 4.4 MM words.
Poor prose/structure/PoV jumping. The reason it's better the 2nd time is because of poor transitions and presentation, not because it has some hidden allegorical meaning.
Book one was so bad that i had to force myself to read it! I love grimdark, character-driven, clever modern fantasy books so maybe that's why I didn't Like this one at all!
I think a lot of the hate of characters is coming from the fact people are reading it with their preconceived notions of things. Most characters are literal children who just 2-3 years earlier had not seen anything more their farms and 50 other human beings, and now have to contend with saving the known universe from utter destruction. Like how many 16-17 year olds do you know who can completely make decisions without emotion, or not hold grudges? Or who do not complain about everything? To expect them to be flawless and accept their lot in life with no qualms in my opinion is such an unrealistic expectation. Of course they are annoying as fuck, especially Nynaeve who was unbearable for like 90% of the series, but that was the exact point and why I think Robert Jordan made beautifully crafted characters. He made these characters with so much flaws to illustrate their humanity regardless of how godly powerful they are. Rand is not a god(well at least not at first?) regardless if he can zap things from existence he deals with the fear of failure, rejection, and feelings of inadequacy. Thoughts he repeats over and over again where it becomes annoying, but they flaws and issues a man his age might have to deal with. As a young man myself I related to some of those things. It's just that his life and emotions are in the context of hey "YOU HAVE TO FIGHT SATAN OR THE WORLD WILL BE REMADE IN HIS IMAGE".
Its so easy to say "PERRIN STFU WE GET IT YOU ARE A BLACKSMITH STOP COMPLAINING" than to accept thats what his life and passion were before everything changed in a blink of an eye and know he has an entire country worth of people he has to take care of and the amount of stress that has to do to a person let alone someone who has not even reached emotional maturity.
My fav reading series
annoying characters are every woman in the series because they are all angry.
100% agree with the romance!
the sword battle is like Cutting the Wind"
and "Opening the Fan"
sounds like someone made a SBD 🤣
Just finished my 7th reread.
Damn son... That's dedication. I've only just started my first, and i'm on book 6. So far, so good.
I might be totally alone here but I never find the pacing in the latter books an issue. In fact, I enjoy the latter books far more (I know). Events may not be happening quick enough after Book 6, but the characters evolve continuously. By the time at Book 6 , I grow so familiar with the characters that merely reading them on page feels home, and every bit of their character development put smile on my face. Every "lack of event" are also compensated by the epic finale in each book. While before book 4, I find many of the main casts (esp. Rand, Matt) to just be annoying naive child. The worst part is when there is no events and no character developments (Perrin *cough*)
Honestly, I had a very up and down relationship with WoT. I started the series and read the first 4 in quick succession; I really liked it, although I wasn’t blown away by anything. Took a break, then read 5-8. Same experience, although I really liked 5 and 6. Then I started 9 and couldn’t finish it for like 4-5 months. Then I just decided to sit down and grind through 9 and 10 in 2 weeks (which I did) and they were 2 of the worst books I’ve ever read. It was so hard to finish them, which is why I knew I had to keep grinding because otherwise I wouldn’t pick them up again. Then I took a small break, and read 11-14 in quick succession. 11 was great, 12 was my fav in series, 13 was meh, 14 was great, with some phenomenal moments.
However, upon reflection, a lot of things just soured on me. I didn’t like any relationship aside from Mat and Tuon, which had the least amount of page time for any relationship by a country mile. I DESPISED Elaine to the point where I let out a frustrated growl every time an Elaine chapter came up. Perrin was always meh. I disliked Rand for the whole series until book 12. Mat was always my fav. I didn’t mined Egwene until Brandon took over, then she joined the ranks of Elaine in hateitude. Most of the characters were just meh for me. Jordan described things too much. He used the same phrases too much. The Forsaken were the worst and least intimidating villains in any fantasy book series I’ve ever read. The finale had some really weird decisions and some let downs. Some things I really liked just disappeared for huge amounts of time, and just weren’t fleshed out too much. I liked the Seanchan culture a lot and found it really interesting, but instead of fleshing them out, the Aeil were the main focus for the whole series and I just didn’t care about them. Also, the magic system was really hard to get into. I couldn’t visualize what they were doing at all, and many things are just done over and over again and I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish. Also, there were MANY deus ex machina moments in the series, which REALLY annoyed me A LOT.
This isn’t to say I didn’t like the series, I really loved a lot of it and I’m very glad I’ve read it. It’s just a lot of the negatives really bogged it down. If it was condensed into a 10 book series, I think it may be my. #2 fav series all time (Stormlight is #1), but unfortunately it isn’t and that hurt it. Maybe on a reread I’ll like some of the decisions more, but as of now….
And it’s really too bad that the stupid Amazon show us being made rn. I’ve never seen a show show such little regard for source material, and such obvious narcissism from the writers and directors where they think they can make a better story than Jordan. It’s horrific what they did. I couldn’t even get past episode 3.
Its interesting to me that we have completely opposite opinion on what we liked. I loved aiel and didnt care that much about seanchan. I could vividly imagine the magic when they were weaving it and i admired how Jordan build in deus ex machina into the magic system.
@@bruncla2303 to each their own! I’m glad you enjoyed it. There is a reason the Wheel of Time is one of the most popular fantasy series of all time.
this isn't on topic. but you should check out the powder mage trilogy. it's up in my list of favorite fantasy series along with the WOT and the stormlight archive
@@kyle18934 I actually have that series downloaded as an ebook. Isn’t that far up on my TBR atm but I’ll get there eventually.
@@s.p.8508 I'd highly recommend. I was iffy on starting it, but glad I did
I have so many more criticisms than that. I feel like I could do one of those long form edited video essays that go for 4-6 hours showing evidence from the text for each of my points. But doing so would take so much work. I wouldn't recommend the series to anyone, personally.
I honestly thought the slog started at book 6 xD
Yep
It's not repetitive
Its insanely repetitive. You can use AI to count it.
They should do a re-edited omnibus without all the repeated stuff. I'd buy it.
“The Waste of Time” - most overrated series ever.
I’ve tried to read the series 3 times. I cannot get into it and I don’t like the audio narrators either. Won’t be trying again.
I found the sword forms stimulated my imagination and tbh I preferred it to the left, right, up, down description
I found the romances to be the highlights of the books. I cannot reread the Wheel of Time because of how terrible I found the ending to be. I also do not like the magic system in the Wheel of Time.
It's a 4.5 million word series that would be SIGNIFICANTLY better if it were anywhere from 3- 3.5 million words in total. The amount of excess fat is insane, and it has zero right to be there. The pros outweigh the cons for me, as I've read through this series twice now- which is never something anyone would do if that wasn't the case. But geez the over bloating from start to finish really drags this story down from what it could/should be.
I would have appreciated examples about irritating characters. And he started to distinguish between necessity of a character in terms of their development so, for example Nynaeve for long stretches is just unbearable - I think this is due to the ‘flaw’ of unnecessary repetition. Her arc is to grow in self reflection to slight degree but to become a devoted friend and protector with Moraine (who she so resented) for Rand
While I was mostly able to get past it on my read, I do think you could just collectively categorize "the way Jordan writes women and gender dynamics" as an issue for a lot of readers, especially ones less used to the way female characters in fantasy used to be written.
It's funny watching this and knowing that Wheel of Time is going to come after my full Cosmere reading. At least I know to brace myself for books 8-10...
It is a wonderful world to get lost in!
If it makes you feel better about it, the very best book finale in the whole series happens during the slog. So I mean it's not all bad
I'm doing a full Cosmere reading when I finish the Wheel of Time. I'm only on book 5 though so I have awhile to go
The best way I can describe my thoughts on Wheel of Time...
It all feels illegitimate
I'm still unconvinced. I looked at these books many times in the bookstores and always put them down to buy something else. Couldn't get over the LOTR copycatting..
Fantastic video, agree on all points. Especially the romance, it is cringe (Perrin and Faila... ew). Also, I felt that in books finished by Sanderson, the characters developed dramatically, especially Matt. Maybe I'm wrong or blasphemous, but I loved the plot and the idea behind wot is brilliant, I just don't think Jordan was a brilliant writer.
I’m interested to hear your take on Sword of Truth
Wheel of Time has two major flaws - the pacing (at times), and the male/female relationships (most of the time) - aside from that, it is damn good. I feel like as long as you warn people about those two issues going in, they'll be fine. That said, I also get it if people don't like it or don't want to get into it. Great video!
The antagonists are also ineffective morons. And there's literal boy magic and girl magic. And the protagonists are also stupid. And the dialogue is awful. But other than that, its amazing.
I have loved the tv show very much as a book reader, but if they screw up the Rand-Aviendha stuff i will dissapointed .
Yeah, that sword form thing already makes it very clear that this series would be a NIGHTMARE for me to read, as I already struggle picturing any action focused scene, let alone COMBAT scenes in my head on a media that is pure text.
Can i skip 8 -10 and read the summary? I've done this with some series but never felt a problem.
Great video!! I just subscribed :) I’m on book 12 and I started reading in January 😮 you’re so right about the slog and the romance 😂 god… the *spoilers* throuple situation was soooooo weird skdhskfh
i always took the instant romance as the primary younger main characters not being able to pick up on adult subtlety. like, there's hints dropped that you'll notice on rereads, but yeah.
also, as a slightly older reader who read all of jordan's books as they came out, the repetition was appreciated. the internet wasn't around and i was a teenager for over half the series. there was no easy way to go back and figure out wtf some random character is reacting to sometimes. as an adult who can read the whole series in a couple months, the repetition is noticeable and low-key unnecessary, but it doesn't bother me.
Should have been titled The Wheel of Walking and Camping in Fabulous Clothes
To be fair, Tolkien spends ages describing landscapes. GRR Martin is repetitive in his description of foods the characters are eating.
Every writer has his ups and downs I guess.
I don't dislike wot, but I found it to be the most overrated of all time lol. A little communication between characters would have cut the series significantly down. I almost like the forsaken better than the so-called heroes.
Im curious as to which romance you were referring to at the end there. G&B, or G&E, or Demandred, or T&M? They're all like how you described; sudden with no explanation or buildup
I haven't read the books but I watched the TV. I really liked it but it was a bit disappointing the last episode of season 2. I'm not sure if I should read the books or not because some people are like it's amazing but other people are like it's terrible.
Great video and nice analysis!
I remember it being said on the forums at the time that the disease had a major bearing on the writing of books 8-9-10... Would you have guessed that from reading them? 😅
Now I'd like the same video for the best fantasy work ever written so far. (Stormlight incoming...)
The malazan book of fallen by Steven Erikson
You read all 14 (and the prequel?) in just *six months*? Wow…
I disagree that books 8-10 have to be read, reading a summary is more than enough.
I like the books much more than the adaptation, I have read it several times, typically I'd re-read the previous book before the new one came out & never really had a problem with the pace of the books; I do have several problems with the adaptation
Opinions are different to everyone. Personally i did not care at all for Wheel of time. Compared to Malazan on the other hand was way more interesting and is one of the best of all time.
I am halfway through book 4 ( Shadow Rising) .
I agree with everything you say here. But now I must challenge you, The First Law.
Oh good suggestion 👀
@@libraryofaviking Yes and I'm talking about the whole thing, from The Blade Itself to The Wisdom of Crowds
I got like 5 books deep before deciding it had horribly slow pacing that I wasn't enjoying. Most of the characters I find bland and forgettable, or just annoying. I've read at least 2 dozen other fantasy/sci-fi series, and I don't mind flawed characters. WoT just has annoying main characters with repetitive/tedious habits, and any character development takes too long to keep my interest.
Not saying it's bad, just saying why I personally didn't enjoy it. Although it is a bit of an indictment that even big fans of the series say that ENTIRE BOOKS in the middle are so slow and uneventful that they recommend skim reading them.
It’s been a really long time since I’ve read them, but I remember not liking the ending. Really long too, but good
It is fair to criticize the eye of the world as having a plethora of tropes, particularly the ones lining up with Tolkien’s classic.
But honestly, it never bothered me. I wasn’t obsessed with the thought of how similar it was to Frodo’s journey with his band of friends. Why?
I’d start with the rich description of the village of Emond’s field and the development of the strong, female civic role in their society. This is not just a thematic coloration we get a whole chapter, showing how. ambitious Egwene is. We see a dynamic between the women’s circle and the men’s domain in the town Frodo was in reality more a middle aged gentleman farmer and rand is a recently minted young man and working sheep herder with a strong father figure. The heron marked sword is not the one ring.
I would also conclude with the differentiating concepts of Ta’veren, the Aes Sedai, and the more interactive presence of evil.
So in the end the Tolkien framing, is it self, a kind of heroes, journey, framing, and not really a trope, more of an archetype. Finally, as the first novel, having a well worked out structure, probably gave him the confidence to proceed with all of the other innovations around which to develop the core concepts of free will, good and evil, and above all the more deistic construct of the pattern set in motion by the creator.
haha I find it funny that everyone praises the worldbuilding when for me its a bit weak. Magic system (and CC) is what this series excells. I mean dont get me wrong, I LOVE the Seanchan and also Shara and some aspects of the cultures etc... but most of the Cultures in the westerlands just arent as crafted as needed to be, the countries and cultures blurred up in my mind a lot of times but definitely the worst thing is "How come they all speak the same language but have such distinctive cultures?" all cultures arose from being isolated from others which in turn affects language a lot as well to the point people in Aiel waste shouldnt be able to understand people from Kandor.
Also the shape of the map is hilariously bad and how could be that there are "unclaimed lands" in an agricultural society were farmland is the most looked after commodity.... and makes no sense that land is unclaimed by any kingdom at all. But what makes even less sense is that the frontier states of the north chose to live by the waste of the north and the trolloc invaders when having much safer and untainted lands available further south. It would make sense to have said unclaim lands in between this states and the northwaste as a bufer zone, but not how they are currently placed.
I'm really curious to which romance caught him by surprise
Moraine and Tom, perhaps?
@@elsa_ definitly xD
I'll start by agreeing with every good, bad and/or ugly point made by everyone in any context. WOT presents reader love and hate opportunities at every turn. When Amazon launched their series I tried to watch and was really disoriented so I re-read the entire book series over the past year. Yes, BTW, I can confirm that Amazon is way, way off.
The thing I read in nearly every review ties back to Jordan's gender essentialism. Overcomable by the reader but weird. I found it easiest to create character emotional depth and add emphasis to dialogue just to see the characters with the personalities I felt the had. On face value, a reader could be forgiven for seeing dominant similarities in every character especially by gender. This get much better over the course of the books and i actually wonder how much credit should be given to Brandon Sanderson.
I have a perspective I've not heard from other reviews. I think Jordan was headed for 20 books right up to the point he found out he himself was going to die before Book 10. Jordan has world building nailed down and my personal belief was that he would have spent multiple books on the Seanchan AND Shara...but he got cancer instead. I think he and Brandon Sanderson sat down and Brandon said he'd be happy to wrap it all up but was not going to own the entirely to detailing two continents and multiple peoples after Jordan died. Thus, things start to get extremely focused and storylines converge quickly starting in Book 11.
SPOILERS - stop here is you're still reading the books!
-My belief is that Jordan had this vision of four continental perspectives on governance, the one power and civil rights (Seanchan, Shara, the Waste being the other three). I want to believe he wanted to write details about each presenting a last battle where ALL of those perspective had to be resolved in some global philosophical rendering. The series only gets around to the the continent of main focus where essentially renaissance rules apply and female channelers "gentle" male channelers. We hear a lot about the Seanchan with imperial domination and slavery where female channelers are leashed and treated like K9 units while male channelers are just killed. The Aiel just send their male channelers off the fight/die in the wilderness which comes back to bite them in the end anyway. We learn almost nothing about Shara culture but we are led to belief the male channelers are essentially animals loosed onto the battle field.
-Demandred showing up at the end with an entire continental army from Shara was ridiculously insane with zero precursor (nada, none, never mentioned or referred to in any way). I think Jordan planned to address Shara in several later books to bring context well before the last battle. Instead the Shadow get deus ex machina with an entire civilization worth of channelers who are somehow convinced to leap through gateways and join trollocs which they most like had never seen before...?!? The last battle needed to be balanced without the missing Shara books.
-Snakes and Foxes...O...K...possibly the oddest kind of expositional tangent I've run across. They add up to exactly nothing in the grand scheme of the story arc. Everything they contribute could have easily been done in a dream sequence or with a ter'angreal. I was waiting for parallel universes or alien influence or infusion of laser guns or...anything that might have made the mental effort I put into remembering anything about these characters worth the brain cells I committed.
-Noal (Farstrider) having been everywhere seems like afterthought glue to bring world context; if you erase every place he appears there is no loss of content.
-The Seanchan empire suddenly falling off the pages of the book was far too convenient for Sanderson. I bet the original plan for books 10-12 was centered inside Seanchan. Rand was already traveling to the other continent and a much deeper relationship makes sense. In one prologue, they pivoted the Seanchan from Suroth to Tuon quickly and the used the Forsaken to destroy an entire empire in the space of one paragraph. Very not Jordan-like depth. Once the empire was neutered, that entire story line became nothing other than a supporting force for the last battle. No effort was spent at all cleaning up the well developed and fractious cultural battle lines.
-I wanted a much deeper wrap-up and/or epilogue.
The sword forms names are descriptive of the movement. Why you did t understand what the swordmen was doing is lost in me.
The slog doesn’t exist some of my favourite parts are I. The so called slog.
Have you read any of the books written by Michael G Manning?
They came out of nowhere and really swept me away.
It has it High s and lows
Hahaha he really didn't like the Moiraine Thom plot line. Which, fair. Truly bizarre choices.
It’s rare for me to find something with multiple romantic plot lines and absolutely none of them work for me but WoT is that series. I wish Jordan just hadn’t, or kept it to political matches, because what the heck was all that.
Hm. Does that romance at the end involve a lady of high stature and a wandering salesman? 😂
A couple of tips to potential readers of WoT from someone who has read it well over a dozen times:
DO *NOT* search *anything*: There will be major spoilers.
If at all possible, find someone who has read the books, preferably more than once, but knows how to avoid spoilers. There are *many* hints, foreshadowing, red herrings, and things that are not quite what they seem. Even the most casual, seemingly unimportant things seen or said are sometimes major clues to things. Robert Jordan was a master of this.
While the books are quite enjoyable without catching the details, I recommend finding reviews of individual books by someone who reviews each book after they have read it for the first time. These won't spoil anything from later books, and having others' thoughts and speculation makes the books even more enjoyable.
Recommend reviews:
Merphy Napier: ruclips.net/p/PLJCqICJZQGWj3Lz9qVreMkjyerZZur5fT
Mike's Book Reviews: ruclips.net/p/PLbz5Ez9ewBm3iwRpunF7V-pL0guxzH9kJ
Wheel of Time is a very worth while read.
So far I love the world building. I HATE the writing. It feels like a 12 year old wrote it. Especially the romantic angles are cringe as hell. And I’ve never read more annoying and 2 dimensional characters in my life. Some of the characters are really interesting but several major characters are absolute trash. And so many times I can’t even understand what Jordan is writing. Like he’ll describe something and I’m like ‘that’s just a collection of words that don’t make a cohesive sentence’. It makes me feel that anything can get published in the fantasy genre.
I feel like I dodged a bullet, tried to read this after getting dragged back to fantasy when I heard HBO was making a series called A Game of Thrones, plowed through those, is there more fantasy our there of this caliber, I wondered? Bought a few books from the top of the amazon lists, but for me, nope, mostly just bad writing, won't mention names but most of the big names people throw out when recommending fantasy on reddit, one of them arguable the worst book I have ever finished (morbid angry curiosity, writing decentish, characters/plot just... a disappointment in two parts, started off somewhat intriguing, ended up what the F am I reading?!?!) I am about to start Lies of Locke Lamora, see how that fares. FWIW I loved fantasy back in the 80s, Tolkien got me started of course, Zelazny, moorcock (Eric, Corum, Urlik Skarsol etc, eternal champions series), thieves world series, fafhrd and the grey mouser, Xanth, the infamous Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, Conan, all the early DnD series (first forgotten realms books for ex, where Drizzt is introduced), brooks shanara stuff... just to name a few, sci fi book club member, plus other stuff - Clancy, Steven king, James clavell, Ludlum, Crichton, so many others, but eventually drifted away from fantasy for good for like 3 decades. Then GoT happened and with some trepidation I picked those up and they were amazing, fantastic characters, character arcs, such a real breathing gritty unforgiving world, you could take out the dragons and the magic and it would still be a fantastic story! And then, amongst the other disappointments I tried Eye of the World (which I somehow missed as a younger man), and I couldn't get past the first few chapters. Setting aside the blatant Tolkien lifts/riffs/tributes/whatevers the actual writing was imho not very good. Clunky prose, awkward descriptions, just... unskilled writing in general, I couldn't get past it. So.... nah... there's other books out there, maybe he gets better but I do not care. Ive seen other book tubers describe him as one of the, if not THE greatest fantasy authors of all time but I currently use the 1st book of WoT as a paperweight in the hallway bathroom. I might give it another go but the tv series is not doing it any favors. To be fair I have gone back and read of few authors I remember enjoying as a kid and some of those didn't fare too well either.
I also read this when older after not having read fantasy in a while and I completely agree about the writing level. I actually stopped reading it and started listening to the books on tape because the prose didn't really matter. I also think that anyone in love with the series probably read it as a kid when you are more forgiving of those things.
I read Dune just before reading this series and let me tell you, what a change in writing styles.
I would recommend Guy Gavriel Kay. I have only read Tigana but it was good. I also loved Neil Gaimen for American Gods.
"You'll read about some characters traveling or something, and then suddenly... they are a couple! There were no warning signs or anything, no."
Oh so this is just like one of my favorite japanese exclusive Super Nintendo game called Fire Emblem: Geneaology of the Holy War, where you may be playing for a couple of turns in a battle and all of a sudden, BOOM two characters are married.... just because they spent a few turns next to each other... Ok it's actually a bit deeper you need to do this in multiple battles, and there are OPTIONAL interactions between them that help boost their.... LOVE status that determine how..... in love? they are? But when the actual marriage comes, it's literally out of nowhere, no warning, nothing, you literally need to go to a menu to see if a unit got married.... Fire Emblem is weird, and not even for being a Nintendo franchise that has literal incest in it.
Nice video, I mostly agree with your points, tho I have to say, the more times I go through the series the more I start loving the slog and also how infuriating the characters can be.
But completely agree on the romance point, it can be ridiculous
….did you actually read the books?
Some of your comments come off more like you haven’t.
I honestly thought the battles were the hardest ones to follow. I preferred the political intrigue of books 8-10 (though I enjoyed it all)