My favorite running joke through the series is how either rand, mat, or perrin always assume that one of the others knows more about women than him. Mat is always like "man, if only I understood women as much as Rand" Or Rand goes "Perrin was really the one who understood women" Etc.
There all fools tho lol Perrin marries the first girl who looks at him even though she's a little crazy, i.e Faile is fully capable of stabbing Perrin in an argument and then engaging in rage sex (she never does but she definitely will at some point in there marriage i bet lmao) Rand instantly falls for 3 girls and they him and is lucky enough that there ok with sharing, but in real life he would be fucked and have to choose one or lose them all I think Mat at least manages to have some fun with bar maids, castle maids and even a few Aiel maidens. But he also becomes fuck buddies with a dark friend Aiel that he has to kill, gets raped at knife point by a queen and oh ya falls in love and accidentally marries a crazy slave owning tyrant who wouldn't blink at the thought of killing him and everyone he loves. Lol they are all fools for love
I'm really sad that her power was so drastically weakened though :/ Wish Nynaeve had taught the healing to a guy so she could have been fully restored.
I didn't hate the book but it was a tough read for me. I found myself viewing it as more of a chore and forcing myself to power through it. I just wanted to know what was going to happen with the story and per page it didn't feel like enough was happening to keep me motivated to keep reading.
The problem is more that those amazing moments are infrequently strewn throughout chapters of nothing. LOC probably is the biggest culprit of this so far in my read through.
Yeah G and E is the worst of Jordan on display. It’s abrupt, awkward, and totally unearned. This book is widely a fan favorite (IMO) 100% due to the AWESOME ending. The rest of the book is just okay for WoT standards.
i think i would need to reread it to change my opinion, but just because i had SO much fun reading loc i can't help but regard it as my favorite wot book. i get chills just thinking about the scene where nynaeve heals logain. oof
The Healing of Logain, the Raising of Egwene, Rand and Lews Therin in the Box, "Asha'man Kill!" Those are just some of the reasons this is my #1 book in the series, just barely edging out *The* *Shadow* *Rising* which is a very very close second place.
I literally just finished a re-read of this book the day this video was posted. I would agree, for the most part, that the book's popularity is based on Dumai's Wells. However, on the re-read I picked up a lot of details on White Tower law, some of the interpersonal politics among Aes Sedai, and we start to see Rand's tactics of avoiding potential threats (though it does backfire near the end) as well as using similar tactics in surprise attacks. Also, you can get a better look at some of Rand's own brilliance as a tactician with his plans on distracting Sammael while also piloting his way through both Andoran and Cairhienin politics and making way for Elayne to eventually take those thrones.
The first half of this book is reeaally slow. Important things happen, but it's pretty dry. It picks up when Logain gets healed but is still just ok until Rand gets abducted. It picks up a little due to suspense and then explodes with awesomeness at the end. The explosive ending is literally the last 26 of 919 pages. But it's one my favorite scenes of any book ever!
Alanna thought she could get away with it because bonded warders are more or less subservient to their Aes Sedai. She thought the same would go for Rand. But it didn't.
So Shadowspawn CAN travel through Waygates. That's how they go everywhere. That's how they attack the Two Rivers in book 1, through the Ways. They CANNOT go through a gateway however. These are the portals created by the One Power for instant travel (or skimming). If they go through it, they die instantly. They never found out why this happens but it is speculated that it's because Shadowspawn are unnatural beings, created by the Power and the Shadow.
We know the same applies to the Nym who are also artificial beings, so it's not just that they were made by the True Power. Also, had it been the conflict between True Power creation and One Power gateways then that would have left the obvious solution of using True Power gateways to move the Trollocs around (and while yes access to it is restricted at the time of the books, that hasn't always been the case as the "chosen" are effectively named so for having been granted access to the True Power during the War of Power).
Super late reply. At a 2005 Book Tour after Knife of Dreams.... TK: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways? RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage. Source: Tim Kingston, Theoryland.
I just finished 6 and would trust Loghain with my life at this point. The dude hasn’t done anything wrong except trust the wrong people. It was so hard watching him sulk around Camelyn like a zombie and I cannot wait for him to come back in force.
I think Rand didn't kill Alana for a couple reasons. First there's his almost obsessive reluctance to never kill a women no matter what. Second, I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned already but I'll keep it vague just in case, there are significant and very problematic side effects for a warder if their Aes Sedai dies that Rand was likely aware of by this point.
Besides, Alanna is not a dark friend,or evil, only misguided. She thinks that someone should put reins on The Dragon Reborn. So, why not her. She knows that doing it without permission is wrong, and how is she to know that she just put reins on a bull not a pony??
Yup, Warders who loose their Aes Sedai go insta mad with bloodlust due to their suffering, that is why Moiraine "pre-passed on" Lan's bond in case she died, to prevent him going mad and flying off to kill shadowspawn until he died... had he killed Alana then and there he would had most likely gated to the blight and died
@@jwooten933 Bull? Try Dinosaur. Initially I thought It also a Tav'eren thing and that the same thing might happen with mat and/or perrin. Missed chance...Also Alanna was a dipshit. but she got better later on.
Rand's got a hang-up since late book 3/early book 4 about women dying. Where that is coming from is up for debate (killing the woman on his way to Tear? His mental torture in his sleep by the Shadow on the way to Tear? The little girl he couldn't save after the attack on the Stone? Or is it something bleeding through from his past lives), but the first instance of it presenting was with his trouble dealing with Lanfear. So for all intents and purposes, Rand can't kill Alanna in that moment (nor does he know exactly what she did or hoped to accomplish by placing the warder bond on him). For reference, this is likely inspired by Jordan's own experiences as a soldier. He's told the story of him killing a female Viet Cong soldier in combat and how he could never get over that image.
@@meganega123 "Men of the Two Rivers, it seems, retain much of storied Manetheren in them, traits shared with men of the Borderlands. It is said that a Borderlander will take a dagger’s wound to avoid harm to a woman and count it fair trade. I dared not risk that you would place my life above your own, certain that somehow you could sidestep fate. Not a risk, I fear, but a foolish certainty, as today has surely proved."
Keep enjoying the series. Oh, and Egwene took a beating in order to meet her TOH with the Aiel, if I remember correctly. She lied to Amys and the other Wise Ones. The beating was not gratuitous.
The beating was also proportional to her pride. Only the person with Toh can know when their Toh has been met, and so as long as she kept on asking/expecting to be beaten they'd keep on beating her. Had she protested after the first hit they'd have stopped there, but they'd have viewed her as having very little honor and pride in herself.
Yeah, it is all based on the messed up Aiel mentality. Ji'eh'toh is frakking insane as far as this wetlander is concerned (and I'm truly a wetlander, I live in a state surrounded on three sides by water).
Really everyone is this world, but especially Aiel and Aes Sedai have a weird obsession with corporal punishment and extremely severe, private discipline. I've always thought it had something to do with their culture that has held over since the breaking.
One thing I really liked about this book in comparison to the previous ones was the amount of time we spent with the Forsaken. Their squabbling was extremely interesting, and it helped cut up the monotony of the protagonists standing around and doing almost nothing in the beginning.
Choosing Egwene as the Amyrlin Seat was a political move, partly because the dissidents had settled into two camps and neither would let the other have it (and both thought they could control her) but also because they believed picking her would help them build trust with Rand.
Which is an hilariously BOLD assumption of them to make with Rand ( *cough* they don't really get along *cough* Egwene annoys the crap out of him *cough* Rand also annoys the crap out of HER *cough* this is funny *cough* )
The Egwene and Gawyn situation... Gawyn's had the hots for her from the start. Elayne keeps on pointing it out to Egwene and keeps on trying to sell Egwene on Gawyn being a better match for her than Galad. Gawyn doesn't act on it because he looks up to Galad and believes he is indebted to Galad, because Galad saved Gawyn's life when he was younger. So when she gets drawn in it's not because she has feelings for Gawyn, but because Gawyn's feelings for her are so overpowering that they draw her in. And she develops her feelings more in response to his show of great affection for her and how he sees her.
I think there's also an issue with everything we missed during the girl's time in the tower. I got the impression that they all spent a lot more time together than we actually saw, and I can totally buy Gawyn and Egwene developing a good relationship without Egwene even realising, because she's so focused on learning. And Galad. Especially because Egwene is kind of timid with Galad, and more open with Gawyn. I could be misremembering though.
@@davidwilson6577 if I remember correctly there is a 6 month time skip in book 2, during that time skip Gawyn and Egwene are training/hanging out at the white tower. In that time they become casual acquaintances through Elayne and Gawyn develpes feelings for Egwene but never makes his move, Egwene seeing his true feelings for her in his dream (alongside all night long dream sex) overwhelms her and she falls in love with how much he loves her.
@@chrissleeping65 I think it's more than casual acquaintance, they act pretty friendly. I mean Elayne would spend a decent amount of time with her brothers, and Egwene would be there a lot too, so it's hard to see how they wouldn't be friendly. Egwyne's romantic interest is focused on Galad but IIRC she definitely has a very fond impression of Gawyn. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure they joke and get on pretty much like members of the main crew do. Does Egwyne compare Galad favourably to Rand, Matt and Perrin's farm boy, easy-going-ness? I think I remember her thinking that Gawyn was also more refined than they were, but she still acts that way with him. The whole forced bliss dream sex thing is pretty awkward and creepy in a non-accusatory way, but she does actually like him a fair bit even at that point, it's not like the dream was such a sudden tidal wave of romantic emotion that she went from 0 to 10 right then and there. It has been a long time though.
@@davidwilson6577 I've only just finished the series for the first time myself so I probably missed the nuances of their friendship, when I do a re read of books 2 and 3 I'll keep a look out for their interactions. As far as Egwene's feelings towards Gawyn are concerned I do remember her infatuation feeling rushed and forced during the events of book 6. The dream sex is 100% creepy on multiple levels, one it's weird to me that Gawyn would fuse a dream about revenge for his mother where he kills Rand with a sex dream where he rescues Egwene. On the other hand its also extremely creepy that Egwene is invading people's privacy by spying on there dreams, ( I remember her being upset and frustrated with Rand for having the audacity of warding off his dreams) when I came to the part where Egwene was trapped by Gawyn's sex fantasy I thought it might be construed as a form of rape, however RJ comments at multiple times through multiple books that Egwene was both horrified and aroused/intrigued at the events of Gawyn's dream. She will often comment to herself in a pov chapter on how she would like to visit Gawyn's dreams again but holds herself back because it would be improper. I do remember a conversation Egwene has with her friends at the white tower regarding Galad and Gawyn, she says something along the lines of that they are both handsome but Galad is beyond beautiful. I think Elayne tells Egwene that Gawyn has a crush on her but Egwene doesn't believe it or even think about it really because in her mind Gawyn doesn't even speak to her and has trouble making eye contact with her. I believe at this point in the series Egwene was still harboring some romantic feelings for Rand.
@@chrissleeping65 right. Yeah like I said it's been a while, and I've only read them the once myself. The only other thing I'd want to bring up is that while Egwene's dream voyeurism is 99% of the time intrusive and exploitative, in the case of Gawyn she was actually pulled into it against her will. Neither of them are really in control at all. And about the content of Gawyn's dream, dreams can be pretty schismatic, I wouldn't read any more into the proximity of those two ideas than that they're the two things he's most concerned with. It's just characterisation. That kind of goes no-where that interesting, to be honest. One of my biggest issues with the series is that we get all this focus on character drama that makes sense but just gets resolved, like the catharsis of not having to read it anymore is enough to justify it being there in the first place. Or maybe that's just what I remember and there is more to it, I probably shouldn't keep making criticisms when I can't say for sure if I'm remembering it right.
Scared me too! I usually listen to Merphy while I work on something else, and she scared the crap out of me. I had to hurriedly run it back to find out what the heck happened. ;D
I have been watching a lot of videos from Slapped Ham and Nukes Top Five covering ghosts and scary things caught on camera. For a moment, I thought this was one of those events.
I'm on my first read through and I don't understand why people think gwene and Gawyn are abrupt and insta love. It has been mentioned over and over how Gawyn "loves" her/has a thing for her but doesn't feel like he can or should act on it. Egwene always admired Galad but something in her was making her also look at Gawyn and something about him kept sparking her interest. It's been prevalent since the book we met Gawyn, I dont remember which one. So I'd have to disagree here that it was unexpected and abrupt. We could see it coming.
Yeah, any time she's away from Gawyn and Galad her feelings seem to drift more towards Gawyn. It's just the Galad overpowers everything when he's present. It's easy to miss, but you are right that she does think of Gawyn a few time when they are apart and has done so since they met in book 2.
@@merphynapier42 Lanfear tells Rand in book 4 or 5 that Egwene's been dreaming about Galad and Gawyn and I think she says more so Gawyn. So it is set up that a two/three way attraction is happening.
A warder wouldn't kill his aes'sedai even if the bond would physically allow it because it would drive him mad and rand doesn't hurt women... one of the most touching scenes in the whole series is when Perrin loses his family and faile makes him let go of his emotional control. Anyone who has been through that grief for someone can vouch that emotionally, the scene was crazy accurate and heartbreaking.
didn't you find the scene with Matt hilarious when he confronts Egwene and the other 2 after he arrives in Salidar and not believing that Egwene could be the Amyrlin? That was pure comedy gold for me.Especially how he confronts Nyneeve. If there is going to be a WOT TV series I so want to see that scene.
@@nathanjarrett728 I get what you are saying but I wouldn't want him to kick her back, he shouldn't physically touch her but dodge our of way so she falls over on herself and he just points and laughs. That would be funny also,
For me one of the most interesting things about the book was Lews Therin's constant hate towards Taim and the implication of it. I mean why does he scream something like "If I finally kill him, I will make it alright"? Is this just random madness talking, or is Taim actually a Forsaken in disguise/led by a Forsaken? Does he have any connection to Demandred's task?
Lord of chaos is such a great book! Dumai's Wells is one of the best action scenes in literature. The ending is fantastic. While 7-10 is only ok, 11-14 are some of the best books ever. It will be difficult to get through them all, but you can do it!
@@mr.teekanee9750 7 is good, just not as good as 6. I love what happens with Nyneave. 8 is ok, but is pretty slow. 9 has great moments but is pretty slow. 10 is VERY slow.
The problem I have with Wheel of Time (I'm currently on A Crown of Swords) is they start great, then the 2nd act is a drag and I'm ready to quit, and then the third act is awesome and it tricks me into continuing.
Tricks? Read it or don't. I'll agree that pacing is an issue for Jordan and if it's too much of a turn-off, put them down. If you can deal with it, enjoy the books and accept the flaws.
@@mikesbookreviews You're right. It probably is a bit of an overreaction. I did not care for your implication that you really should not be reading the books. I'll watch your reviews for a better idea on just what you think of the books before I comment any more.
jarock1974 No worries at all. I actually do like the series quite a bit. I just feel as if a good edit with a scalpel could make them better. Also, I believe he was the best third act writer in the genre.
You really hit the nail on the head with the relationship issues. I knew I hated it for obvious reasons but you kinda explained my feelings on it in better words than I had
Jordan's romantic relationships are "abrupt, jarring, and unconvincing." - Yes, especially considering the animosity of males and females toward one another throughout the narrative.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
Regarding Faile. Remember whose PoV you're viewing her through. Perrin is basically out there reading peoples underlying emotions and then talking to them as if they were acting them out rather than trying to suppress them. So Faile feels jealous, and he calls her out on it even though there's no outward indication. And this is just one way in which he is making it damn hard for her to continue to like him. Imagine yourself in her place and I'm sure you'll find that it'd get on your nerves pretty quick as well. (Also he has a few bad habits in regards to how he treats her like she's fragile but most of that is yet to come.) A better way for Perrin to handle it when he smells Faile's jealousy would be to show her he loves/wants her. Cop a feel, give her a kiss, whatever just to show her she's the object of your affections and desires and nobody else.
Understanding this was key for me appreciating their dynamic. Perrin acts on things Faile isn't actually doing just feeling instead of just paying attention to what she says.
The third or fourth read-through it occurred to me: he doesn't know what Faile is jealous of. He knows she's jealous, but he never asks what it's for. She could be worked up about her rival's dress, and then he specifically tells her that he noticed said rival in said dress. If I was Faile that would drive me fucking insane.
Later on in the books, Perrin learns the key to what Faile is all about and after that I think she really shines. Her cultural background is so very different than Perrin's and is really the source of their difficulties. Faile is actually one of my favorite characters. You just need to understand her.
I also fell for that Faile is bad trap until someone pointed out that exact point "It's all only Perrins PoV. And Perrin smells her feeling doesn't mean she actually shows these feelings". Now the more I think about it the worse Perrin looks in this situation. Which totally innocent person says only "it's not what it looks like" when he get's "caught" by somebody. Just tell her what happened. Then when Faile is upset and doesn't talk to him in the evening and instead of talking about it, he hides the next few days on hunts. And maybe just tell Belerain that you are not interested in her. I don't think he actually ever tells her that direct into the face. He may thinks the right things but he for sure doesn't do the right things.
Just finished this book, and I absolutely loved it. It may be second favorite of the 6 I’ve read so far. I feel so opposite of most of this review. I loved all the little moments. All the plotting and scheming. There are so many great payoffs. Siuan and Logain getting healed, Egwene raised to Amarilyn, Perrin taking charge and coming into his own, Rand being a leader and a warlord, Rand suffering, the last battle in the climax, the AES Sadai bending the knee. I loved it. So many great moments.
- i love nynaeve's arc because i can so clearly see and understand how frustrated she is about being both one of the most powerful aes sedai and unable to access her powers at will. stay tuned for how she evolves though! - rand's thought process while creating the black tower was probably that the last battle is very close, so they need male channelers to fight, even if some of them will go a bit insane until then hahaha - there are a lot of interesting things regarding bonding in the later books!! - i like to think that each character has multiple continuous stories happening at the same time and the books are merely arbitrary divisions to facilitate readability. but i agree that he could have done a better job of separating these stories - holy shit, i thought there was a murderer there with you, i almost had a heart attack hahahaha - i don't think it's that they don't care about rand's consent regarding their relationship, it's more about how rand thinks himself a 'gentleman' who thinks it's wrong to be with more than one person at the same time, and the three are all like 'we don't care dude, we just want to be with you' - dumai's well REALLY fucks rand up. stay tuned
Oh my god, i’m sorry, I know this is not the most important part of this video by far. But the part where your son starts talking to you and the way you reacted I was literally driving while listening to you talk about the bird and I just started laughing and I had to watch that part a few times while I was just laughing out loud, because yeah. That was hilarious. Thank you for that, made my day, very cute.
8:15 Well, upto this point in the series, Rand's reluctance to hurt women has been made very clear. Heck, he couldn't even bring himself to kill Lanfear who was literally about to do the same to him. So it should come as no surprise that he let Alanna go.
Im glad I've been consistently ahead of you in this series because I like not worrying about spoilers. I had a little trouble in the middle of this series, everything seemed to slow down but I think its commonly called the slog in the community but I'm not 100 percent sure.
This is probably my all-time favorite series, but it’s nice to see someone experience it through a fresh set of eyes. It’s good to be reminded of the series imperfections because I have become so in love with the series and certain characters that it’s easy to overlook some of those things. I definitely hope you continue to read the series. The pay off is well worth the journey. There are a couple of books that are always hard for me to get through on my rereads. Book 8 and book 10 or definitely two of the hardest for me. With all that being said, I loved the world that Robert Jordan created. I’m excited to see what you think about future installments of the series. By the way, you have not yet begun to see Rand become unhinged! Just wait! Lol
I loved this. The in between moment were actually really great. I normally like my books straight to the point but I enjoy being in this world and with these characters so much.
Wheel of Time is a series you either love, warts and all, or you just don't. There's not a whole lot of middle ground, and even the long time die hard fans admit that it has flaws.
I just finished Lord of Chaos about an hour ago! It was nice to see some fresh recap immediately after. I'm crawling through WoT at a little more than a book a year over all at this point (read the first three within a year, took me the next four years to read the next three) so it's always fun when I bump into people who are at roughly the same spot regardless of their pace.
Daddy Mat is like the most adorable thing ever, don't worry there's a LOT more of him coming. More of Elayne than you can handle as well Rand is a good little Two Rivers boy who despite being around the Aiel for months is still totally freaked out at this whole concept.
Without spoiling it. Does he get one over on those girls? They've made his life hell. They traumatised him book 3, and constantly make a mockery of him, and are now acting like he's unreasonable for having that item that won't let the one power touch him.
Book 2 Review: "A lot of people say that they don't like the way Jordan writes women, but I really love these characters!: Book 6: "I've already said this a lot, so I won't rant, but the WOMEN!"
I liked that book way more than the fires of heaven, because I can not stand Elayne and her "I'll make Rand my warder and when I do I make sure that he will answer me when I ask a question and does what I tell him too" and I am like no fuck you leave him alone...
I do wish that a more focused reckoning regarding consent in the world was explored. There were ample examples that could be linked through the evil of power-over relationships from compulsion, to the a'dams, to bonding, to consent with regards to healing, all the way to the basic choices between good and evil.
How each book focuses on certain characters is a bit like threads in a weave. Each thread rises to the surface, and then plunges under the other threads. Almost like Jordan did this on purpose ;)
I love how you detest the 3way forced thing on Rand!! Trust in Perrin and Matt!! Fekin wonderful! Both of them! Elaine, Min and Avienda do get great too! They still beat Rand into the way they want. But acceptance does happen too.
Actually Lord of Chaos was the first big book I ever read I started a new job doing security and basically I was alone for 12 hours a night so I went to the library and picked it because I thought the cover looked interesting. I admit I was lost in some places but I enjoyed the ride the story took me on, and then I found out it was a series and I was hooked. I’ve been a reader ever since and it’s been more than 20 years.
The entirety of this book is one of my personal favorites along with book 4 because of the sheer amount of Rand chapters. Lord of Chaos actually spoiled me a bit because from this book on, Rand point of view chapters become much more sparse.
1.what was that swinging and yelp about? 2. I am rereading the series and am on crossroads of twilight. My first read I felt a slog but I don’t feel it in this reread yet. I think I was in a hurry to know rands story line that I dismissed all other story lined as roadblocks. Now that I am paying more attention to others and details I love every book so far (sure some more than others).
I think the reason for the "Insta-love" with most of the characters is because, they have so many other things going on....learning the One Power, Aes Sedai training, being the Dragon Reborn, trying to save the world, dealing with talking to wolves, etc. for each character, it's something different, that when they finally realize they are in love it's like...oh, where did this come from...I have no time for this.
Book 6 is always a weird one for me. I remember it as one of my favourites, then when I re read I’m sat there thinking ‘come on, something happen already’, until I hit the end which is so awesome I remember it as one of my favourites again. I really hope you do manage to get through the slog, the last few books are so worth it and honestly I don’t know how an ending to a series could match that of wheel of time. You’ve spent so long with the characters that by that point every good thing that happens feels truly earned, while anything bad is like it’s happening to a friend.
So about the Women in WoT, imo their portrayal is supposed to be of a world where women have been in power for a long time, but this matriarchy, like the patriarchy of our own world has lots of flaws because we're all human. He wants to show that even though women are in charge, because we're human too much power will lead to undesirable behaviors, like the thing that happened between Alanna and Rand, which was definitely a harassment and crossed lots of red lines. Just like men in the real world, the women in WoT put down the opposite gender, call them dumb, don't use their opinions when they make decisions and are obnoxious about it. I must say though that sometimes he over does this, but when you have 14 books about a single story you'll probably overdo everything thats possible.
Pooya Shirazi You really think we live in a patriarchy? Don’t look at politicians or leaders. Look at laws and rules Just suggesting. It may be eye opening.
@Anne Day I'm confused about the whole, patriarchy we live in thing, but the matriarchy they live in is so right and so scary as well. In regards to the good example I think I know what you're talking about and that was just... vile and horrible. The world is amazing but I kinda hate it for how much men and women are at each other's throats as well. Why can't they just love each other?
It's not explicitly stated why Shadowspawn cannot travel through gateways, but the reason is known (via interviews and later books). It is because they aren't naturally occurring. They're living constructs (and the rule holds for non-shadowspawn constructs as well btw).
Egwane submitting to punishment by the Aiel wise ones under Jiehtoh. I think its important to notice that she determined how much punishment she had to go through to meet her "toh," and she took the punish "Like a true Aiel" and the wiseones showed genuine love and respect for her afterwards, before she left to go to Salidar.
I actually think the whole gawen and egwayne romance makes sense. it's been mentioned in the other books that galad and gawyn have a thing for her so there's that much and then it even mentions how egwayne in earlier books thinks fondly of gawyn even though it's not exactly 100% love she's open to the possibility. then she gets sucked into his dream and goes through some intimate things with him even though it's a dream I imagine it feels real when it happens. also when you find out someone you're interested in also reciprocates those feelings it's hard to not be happy and get caught up in the moment. I've seen others do this as well as myself getting caught up in those types of situations romantically. it's flattering and makes you more open to someone when you find out they like you. another point I'd like to make is that these 2 are going through life or death situations so it's easier to get caught up in the now with things like this because you never know if you'll survive the next day etc. overall it might be a little fast but it's believable. personally I didn't pick up on lan and nynaeve till he dropped it on us. so at least he put some foreshadowing on this one.
If you can be *really* patient and sit back and let the world wash over you, knowing it all pays off and pays off BIG, you’ll enjoy it a lot more. The “slog” is actually my favorite part of the series because you get to spend so much time with the characters.
I just watched all of your WoT reviews back to back and I have to say, I’m really enjoying listening to your first reactions to these books! I just finished the series a few months ago (after a few attempts) and it’s really interesting to compare your thoughts to my own. Throughout the series I felt that Jordan included a LOT of stuff that could have been cut without affecting the story/characters at all, and I always feel bad for thinking that, because I do like WoT so much. Glad I’m not the only one!
The whole sister wives thing for Rand is my least favorite part of the entire series so far! Just like you’ve mentioned with all of Jordan’s other relationships they are so unbelievable and make me dislike Elayne and Min (more than Aviendah) because all they ever obsess about is their feelings for Rand and what they are willing to accept from him despite never discussing it with him. The whole fact that it’s basically implied to happen by the end of the series because of Min’s visions is equivalent to shoving this polygamous mess down the reader’s throat.
My favorite part of the series, easily. Elayne & Rand's love is insta-love. They are both beautiful and powerful people and that is the gist of it. They aren't together much for it to matter though anyway. Aviendha and Rand's love is one of the few earned relationships in the series, but it's damn frustrating to get through. I hate it when characters aren't being honest with each other. In comparison to that, Min and Rand is totally a breath of fresh air in comparison, and one of the only times a man and a woman in the series actually act like they enjoy each other's company. Min's determination to get Rand to look at her as more than a friend in the lead up to the final battle is one of my favorite parts of this entire series. Best female character easily, and Rand's true partner, IMO.
These books were written years apart, so I think Jordan thinks we need help remembering things/people. And he really wants us to know when skirts were smoothed :P
I finally caught up with you! The combination of you saying you were enjoying the series and Daniel Greene extolling the virtues of these books, as well as covering the upcoming TV show, got me to give these books another try. It's been back and forth between OK and amazing. I think that last time I tried, about a decade ago, I got a tiny bit further, because I remember a couple of things that seem like they haven't happened yet, but they are blurry memories at best. One thing you didn't mention that I was super focused on this whole book was Lews Therin's desperation to kill Mazrim Taim. He goes on and on about it, and the way he talks about it makes me think that Taim is Demandred in disguise, or maybe Osan'gar (I'm not sure who Osan'gar and Aran'gar were, though they have to be male since neither is Lanfear and none of the other female Forsaken are dead)? I agree with you about Elayne and Gawyn, but I also hate Perrin and Faile (not Perrin individually, just the relationship). Faile is abusive as all hell, and I hate it. With Logain, I do wonder whether he is going to end up on the side of good or bad in the end. I do think that either he or Taim will end up a bad guy, the other a good guy. Mat is my favourite character, so the nugget that is most important to me from this book is what we learned about his necklace: In the previous book, it seemed like saidin could kill him, but it must have been indirect because Aran'gar channelled at him and it failed, so he must be resistant to both, I think.
Nynaeve healing logain was such an awesome moment i had to sit down for like an hour after that. Egwene really starts to come into her own in this book IMO. Rand putting Mazrim Tiam in charge of the black tower makes it all the more scary. The Rand and Lews Therin dynamic is my favorite part of the whole series. I agree with you about the character balance sometimes you will not hear about a character for like 2 or 3 books and when you hear from then again you are like wait who is this?? The battle at the end is really the first time we get to see just how destructive and scary channeling can be. It wasn't the rebel Aes Sedai that swear fealty to rand it was Elaida's people from the white tower. The repetition gets even worse in the next few books.
The rebels are forced to swear as well. The reasoning for this is because they broke Rand's rule as to how many Aes Sedai could approach him. Although 'forced' is an interesting term. Most of the Aes Sedai later consider it Ta'veren twisting as opposed to being physically forced. While they are threatened, nothing is actually physically done to them. Even post torture, I suspect Rand could not have stomached watching them harmed in order to get them to swear. ***SPOILER*** I could see it after he reaches his Darth Rand point when forced to choke Min. ***SPOILER*** I'm worried about Merphy finishing the series if she's already feeling slog as of LoC. It's still one of the faster and more popular books with most readers. CoS, PoD, WH, and especially CoT are far slower. Having re-read this series many, many times, one of Jordan's strengths is how much detail he puts into all of his work. The problem with all of those details are that they don't necessarily advance the main plot. On re-read, he gives you tons of hints and details on how things work and just how interconnected things are that you will never pick up on the 1st read. On first read, they feel like a waste of time because it is impossible to pick up how they impact the story. I absolutely love this series, but I will admit, it isn't for everyone.
After 4, i listened to all of them at a slightly higher speed--some as fast as 2-2.5, and some of them were STILL 40 hours to complete. I swear he could cut like a whole 1000 page book out of the middle slog, and an argument can be made for another, smaller one out of the rest because of the redundant descriptions and overly described scenes. And yet they were a treat to read all the same. How the crud did he do that?
I didn't see anyone mention it yet, but the reason why Min, Elayne, and Aviendha agreed to share Rand, regardless of his feelings, is that Min had a Viewing that they would, and her Viewings always come true, even if she doesn't understand them. They had to accept it because they don't have a choice (It probably doesn't help that he's *majorly* Ta'veren, too, lol).
Logain is involved in some serious gut punch emotional scenes, without spoiling how he's involved. The one with the toddler especially omg. Also Jordan sucks at building relationships, but he's very good at existing healthy relationships. But yeah so much instalove and so much just Gawyn in general. Faile's parents and Rhuarc and Amys are awesome
The first time I read though this series Jordan's heavy handedness with the women's power trips really bothered me. But I was able to see past it better my second time and I loved the books so much more then.
I’ve read the series about a dozen times and I’m soooo entertained by your reviews. I’m sure you’ve gotten someone to read a series before, so now I have that thing where I want you to hurry up and finish it but also can’t help but sit here with that knowing grin 😆
I started reading about the time WH was released. I’ve read the series multiple times. Early books more than late books because I did re reads in prep for later book releases. I’m re reading for the first time in about 12 years. I’m enjoying Merphy’s fresh take as a first time reader. It’s refreshing. 😄
Okay, when you jumped when your phone decided to become self-aware and speak, I jumped too! I thought shrodinger's cat decided to materlize in front of you or something! Great review of LoC! I respect your opinions on the story and your problems with Jordan's idiosyncracies. I liked the same parts you did. I also am very glad you are one of the few reviewers that recognize that the men seem to be made into 2nd class citizens when dealing directly with women. Especially, when the women get together to bully said men. In the series as a whole but also it's magnified in what happens to Rand. I, mostly, saw it as a funny cultural quirk of the world brought about because Men are universally blamed for the Breaking(instead of the Dark One who is responsible) and the way women have dealt with men since the breaking is a trickle down effect, I think, of that massive historical tragedy. The more I re-read the series, the more this thought becomes more logical. Jordan's constructed world is very much a matriarchy in it's relationship with men and sort of a reverse image of our own world where men have used their own influence and the world, until recently, is tacitly agreed upon as a patriarchy. In our world, traditionally, men have held the more dominant roles over society and change in history with women holding mostly supporting roles in comparison. I like that Jordan flips that on it's head and creates a complex culture that reverses the roles but that because 3 Ta-veren have come into the world, a shift starts to happen. An ebb and flow of ups and downs in a the world where men and women continually get more or less powerful as the series progresses. There is so much to dissect in this series and I love it!
If Rand has killed Alanna it would have driven him insane as a result of the warder bond being broken and he would’ve gone on a rampage. Alanna thought she’d get away with it because when an Aes Sedai bonds a non channeler man they can manipulate their actions, however because Rand can channel he can’t be controlled in this way.
I still can't get over how mean Egwene and Nynaeve are to Matt for no reason. They haven't seen him in forever and the first thing they think of is to yell and channel at him.
You are in for such a ride. I bought book 1 the day it came out and every book since. Ok, I just got to the point where your phone freaked you out, too cute. Now I'm at the part where you're on a rant about how the 3 decide Rand's fate. I'm guessing you're not married yet, also you have to remember that the pattern shapes around Rand and gives him what he needs. It is very much the love of those 3 that brought him through the madness. Where the Aes Sedai swear fealty to him, that's the pattern working. Logain...oh he is a special treat. The Battle of Dumai Wells not only makes the book worthwhile it makes the upcoming TV series one of the most anticipated things in my life. Get through the slough and when you close the final book you'll forget about the wasted ink and want to re-read the whole thing again. I'm on my 10th.
I'm a few chapters into book 8 now, and these reviews are a nice refresher on what I read last month, and it's quite interesting to hear somebody else's viewpoint after just recently reading the previous books. Most people seem to have read the whole series multiple times already.. I always did think that Lan and Nynaeve's relationship was very sudden, just BAM! from out of nowhere. I don't think they ever even talked to each other, and then suddenly they're in love. And Rand is pretty hilarious, falling in love with everybody!
The Nynaeve and Lan romance "starts" in Chapter 16, Eye of the World: > “I am interested,” he said, “in how you found us.” > “So am I.” Moiraine leaned forward intently. “Perhaps you are willing to speak now that Egwene and the boys have been brought to you?” > Nynaeve sipped the wine before answering the Aes Sedai. “There was nowhere for you to go except Baerlon. To be safe, though, I followed your trail. You certainly cut back and forth enough. But then, I suppose you would not care to risk meeting decent people.” > “You . . . followed our trail?” Lan said, truly surprised for the first time that Rand could remember. “I must be getting careless.” > “You left very little trace, but I can track as well as any man in the Two Rivers, except perhaps Tam al’Thor.” She hesitated, then added, “Until my father died, he took me hunting with him, and taught me what he would have taught the sons he never had.” She looked at Lan challengingly, but he only nodded with approval. > “If you can follow a trail I have tried to hide, he taught you well. Few can do that, even in the Borderlands.” > Abruptly Nynaeve buried her face in her cup. Rand’s eyes widened. She was blushing. Nynaeve never showed herself even the least bit disconcerted. Angry, yes; outraged, often; but never out of countenance. But she was certainly red-cheeked now, and trying to hide in the wine. The reason Nynaeve is so affected by this simple compliment/acknowledgement of her ability is that she's had to fight so hard for any recognition as a young Wisdom. She's desperate for someone to just accept her and tell her she's good as she is and Lan offers it up freely.
@@johanjarvinen Aah, thanks! I remember that scene now, but I'd forgotten about it. There's just so much to take in on a first read of this series. I'm actually looking forward to a reread, I'm sure lots of things will pop up that didn't make sense the first time round..
@@JoeBob79569 Yeah, that's why it's so often mentioned as such a great series to re-read, because Jordan just jams so much foreshadowing and so many subtle details in there that you can't possibly grasp on your first go-around.
@@johanjarvinen Indeed. Another example of this is with Ishamael. When Rand is fighting him, he thinks he's fighting the Dark One, and so we, the readers, just kind of assume the same. At least that's what happened with me.. I didn't really know who, or what, the Forsaken were, and there was not much detail about them at the beginning.. It was all a bit chaotic..
@@JoeBob79569 Nobody really picks up on Ishy being free at the start, and yet the prologue takes place after the sealing of the bore and Ishamael is just openly confronting LTT. It's literally right there in front of your nose and yet most readers don't see it because they don't yet know why it matters, and by the time they get the information they'd have needed to put it together they're far enough from the prologue to not put it together.
Aaaaaaa This book was so gooood, there were moments when I cried and others when I started jumping and going around my room from frustration and I was sooooo happy with logain and siuan I love min And the ending Wow Wow Wow I finished it for the first time an hour ago and still cant sleep from all the emotions (it’s 4 am for me)
I had the exact same reaction to nyneaves healing the stilling. I was like shiit Rand is going to get gentled and then when the aes sedai captured him I was like omg but it didn't happen):
I'm glad you are reading this series...I stopped half way through book 7 and gave them all away...just don't like the series enough to slog through. But, I will be following your reviews to see what happens...you make it much more palatable listening to your overview in 20 minutes than slogging through weeks at a time for each book. :)
Also, the slog is generally considered 7-10, but I really think that the only reason LoC gets excluded is that Dumai's Wells is so wild that it makes people forget that the rest is every bit as slow as 7-10 (honestly, I think Fires of Heaven drags a bit, too). The thing is, there continue to be interesting moments throughout the slog, and I think it only got as bad of a rap as it did because readers were waiting years between installments, only to have a book come out where there wasn't much forward progression. a LOT of cool stuff happens throughout the slog.
Been watching this review and it reminds me of those great times when I read this for the first time, which is a weird dichotomy. So I started reading this when book 5 was new. So the first time was an absorption to book 5. Then it became this thing I would read the series every time a new book came out. I have only read the last book once. Now I want to do the whole series again. I blame you, but it is that great kind of blame.
All Shadowspawn are constructs, (i.e. they were given life using the One Power as opposed to being naturally occurring.) The Nym (Green Men) and even the Tree of Life are also constructs. Jordan decided early on that no construct could survive going through a gateway (probably to avoid the Shadow from being able to instantly transport their armies wherever and whenever they wanted back when Rand was the only good guy how could make a gateway.) No better explanation is ever given to my knowledge.
Faile was taking care of lordly duties in the Two Rivers. Which Perrin should have been doing, but he didn't want to. And she is basically a princess and knows how to do that stuff, and does it pretty well.
I just finished LoC. I’m not worried about Logaine (given min’s vision) I AM worried about Mazrim Taim though. That dude is definitely up to some shenanigans. I need Min’s reading on him ASAP in A Crown of Swords.
I love Dumai's Wells so much, it is such a turning point in the world. The only reason I hate Perrin and Faile (is that how you spell it?) Is I really can't forgive them for being the main focus in the slog and slowing everything up so much. But I LOVED Perrin at the start of the series.
I really loved the book but yea, some scenes were a little slow but still not as slow as The Eye of the world for me at least. The ending was so badass.
Great review. Thank you. I don't see why people told you that the women will get better as you go, because they don't. In fact, Cadsuane shows up and she is the worst of all. I'd say most the female readers that I've heard from don't like the three wives for Rand, but considering he is supposed to die after saving the world, I don't think any of the women saw it as a long time deal. They were going to take what they could when they could. Rand very willingly consents to all three so I have no issue with it. Rand needed Elayne for what she could do for him and the world afterwards. He needed Aviendha for what she taught him about his true heritage. And I think he needed Min most of all to keep himself sane and aware that the world was worth fighting for. Rand is my favorite character and Min and Elayne are my favorite female characters, so the three wives is actually my favorite part of the series. Min finally making it back to Rand, and their reunion is definitely one of my favorite scenes in the book. It is so great to see a man and woman actually take joy in seeing each other. Min's attempts to get Rand to see her as more than a friend in the build-up to the finale is one of my favorite parts in the entire series. It is the only romantic courtship that is in the series, despite the many, many relationships in it. Perrin's character was partially ruined by Faile. He is still great at times, but always a mega simp now. Matt got all hell to do here, but that will change. Elayne's attempts to manipulate him are infuriating, as much as I like her. Considering she is always true to her word, they could have worked something out but decided to be stupid about the whole thing. It was a consolation to hear she wasn't the one channeling at him and was mad that it was happening. She's a graet character most the time. Egwene's sudden love for Gawyn is ludicrous. They were literally together for 2 of the 4000 pages to that point. This book also ruined Gawyn's character. He should have died at Dumai Wells. Only plot armor saved his dumb ass. I agreed with almost everything you said. Take away Dumai Wells and Min's reunion with Rand, and this book wouldn't be much different than books 8-10. Just not enough happening. Too much of women trying to manipulate each other. And all the repetition gets onerous. FANTASTIC world building though.
The thing is, Alana had just bonded him. If he killed her the bond would break and he would totally loose it. Bad things happen when the warder bond breaks. Also, Alana was banking on the idea that she would be able to control him with the bond which works for other men, but not Rand (and presumably other male channelers)
For the first five books up to this point I thought that Aes Sedai were somewhat misunderstood, and that while there were bad apples among them, most were probably doing good. This book convinced me of the opposite - the average Aes Sedai is pretty much just as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Only a handful like Moiraine are determined to do the right thing. I feel like its the tower training itself which cultivates them to be cruel and unsympathetic to the needs of those on the outside, while also being extremely competitive and factional on the inside. IMO, other than Elyne, Egwene, Nineve, Siuan, and Leane, I can't really say that the Salidar Aes Sedai are any better than the Tower Aes Sedai for the purposes of preparing for Tarmon Gai'don. This made me appreciate Moiraines decision to let Rand off the leash in book 2 and later to follow his orders in book 5 so much. Those two choices alone show more maturity, humility, and commitment to the cause than all other Aes Sedai put together have shown up to this point.
Yeah, Moraine is definitely the standout. Even the so-called "good" Aes Sedai are questionable in some ways. Almost every single one of them boils down their existence to how well they can control others. Egwene had a genuine sociopath moment in book five where she was excited over manipulating Nynaeve into being afraid of her. She even starts thinking about how she can apply the same attitude toward others to get what she wants. Elayne's first thought of how to get Rand under control is to bond him and force him to do what she wants. Nynaeve is unnecessarily mean to anyone who makes her slightly uncomfortable for any reason at all. Hell, the way all of them treat Mat is a good indication of how none of them can be trusted to hold power over anyone. It's so weird how Mat has never been anything but helpful to them and they still act like he's worse than a Forsaken. lol
My favorite running joke through the series is how either rand, mat, or perrin always assume that one of the others knows more about women than him. Mat is always like "man, if only I understood women as much as Rand"
Or Rand goes "Perrin was really the one who understood women"
Etc.
There all fools tho lol
Perrin marries the first girl who looks at him even though she's a little crazy, i.e Faile is fully capable of stabbing Perrin in an argument and then engaging in rage sex (she never does but she definitely will at some point in there marriage i bet lmao)
Rand instantly falls for 3 girls and they him and is lucky enough that there ok with sharing, but in real life he would be fucked and have to choose one or lose them all I think
Mat at least manages to have some fun with bar maids, castle maids and even a few Aiel maidens. But he also becomes fuck buddies with a dark friend Aiel that he has to kill, gets raped at knife point by a queen and oh ya falls in love and accidentally marries a crazy slave owning tyrant who wouldn't blink at the thought of killing him and everyone he loves. Lol they are all fools for love
Lol, a little crazy?
it stopped being funny after the first 300 times
@@stevo19991 Yeah, seriously
Yeah I noticed that immediately lol
It's a small detail but it's so great
"Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon," he said softly, "or you will be knelt."
This fucked me up good
My favorite line in any book
Sounds like a man who is sick and fucking tired of bullshit.
@Makai Victor Definitely, I have been watching on Flixzone} for months myself :D
▄︻̷̿┻̿═━一╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮
“Rand’s a good guy...sometimes...and he doesn’t want to kill people...sometimes...”
😂😂😂
Lol, now I want to write a character that fits that description
I'll never get the hate about Lord of Chaos. I loved it, I cried when Siuan got healed because I love her salty self (that was a sea/fish reference)
I sea what you did, there.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who cried when she was healed. I screamed while reading when she healed logain
I'm really sad that her power was so drastically weakened though :/ Wish Nynaeve had taught the healing to a guy so she could have been fully restored.
I didn't hate the book but it was a tough read for me. I found myself viewing it as more of a chore and forcing myself to power through it. I just wanted to know what was going to happen with the story and per page it didn't feel like enough was happening to keep me motivated to keep reading.
The problem is more that those amazing moments are infrequently strewn throughout chapters of nothing. LOC probably is the biggest culprit of this so far in my read through.
Her: This book was a slog
Me: *Laughs in Crossroads of Twilight*
Hey, she said she wants more Perrin chapters!
@@RichFreeman HAHAHAHAHA XD
Cries in Crossroads of Twilight. the ending was pretty lit though
@@valdezinatorpro1377 STOP! I'm surrently in the crying part still! :P
Crossroads of Twilight is literary torture and if you survive you can read just about anything.
Yeah G and E is the worst of Jordan on display. It’s abrupt, awkward, and totally unearned. This book is widely a fan favorite (IMO) 100% due to the AWESOME ending. The rest of the book is just okay for WoT standards.
i think i would need to reread it to change my opinion, but just because i had SO much fun reading loc i can't help but regard it as my favorite wot book. i get chills just thinking about the scene where nynaeve heals logain. oof
The Healing of Logain, the Raising of Egwene, Rand and Lews Therin in the Box, "Asha'man Kill!"
Those are just some of the reasons this is my #1 book in the series, just barely edging out *The* *Shadow* *Rising* which is a very very close second place.
I literally just finished a re-read of this book the day this video was posted. I would agree, for the most part, that the book's popularity is based on Dumai's Wells. However, on the re-read I picked up a lot of details on White Tower law, some of the interpersonal politics among Aes Sedai, and we start to see Rand's tactics of avoiding potential threats (though it does backfire near the end) as well as using similar tactics in surprise attacks. Also, you can get a better look at some of Rand's own brilliance as a tactician with his plans on distracting Sammael while also piloting his way through both Andoran and Cairhienin politics and making way for Elayne to eventually take those thrones.
The first half of this book is reeaally slow. Important things happen, but it's pretty dry. It picks up when Logain gets healed but is still just ok until Rand gets abducted. It picks up a little due to suspense and then explodes with awesomeness at the end.
The explosive ending is literally the last 26 of 919 pages. But it's one my favorite scenes of any book ever!
I love the book's first half. If you removed that great ending it would still make my top 5 list.
Alanna thought she could get away with it because bonded warders are more or less subservient to their Aes Sedai. She thought the same would go for Rand. But it didn't.
So Shadowspawn CAN travel through Waygates. That's how they go everywhere. That's how they attack the Two Rivers in book 1, through the Ways.
They CANNOT go through a gateway however. These are the portals created by the One Power for instant travel (or skimming). If they go through it, they die instantly.
They never found out why this happens but it is speculated that it's because Shadowspawn are unnatural beings, created by the Power and the Shadow.
We know the same applies to the Nym who are also artificial beings, so it's not just that they were made by the True Power. Also, had it been the conflict between True Power creation and One Power gateways then that would have left the obvious solution of using True Power gateways to move the Trollocs around (and while yes access to it is restricted at the time of the books, that hasn't always been the case as the "chosen" are effectively named so for having been granted access to the True Power during the War of Power).
Also it’s not explained until knife of dreams so you haven’t missed any blatant details don’t worry
And it fills a great plot hole of why 200k shadowspawn were never gatewayed into wherever rand perrin or matt were.
Super late reply.
At a 2005 Book Tour after Knife of Dreams....
TK: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.
Source: Tim Kingston, Theoryland.
@@DK-wl4ne it is hinted to but never explicitly said by both Jordan and Sanderson.
I just finished 6 and would trust Loghain with my life at this point. The dude hasn’t done anything wrong except trust the wrong people. It was so hard watching him sulk around Camelyn like a zombie and I cannot wait for him to come back in force.
I think Rand didn't kill Alana for a couple reasons. First there's his almost obsessive reluctance to never kill a women no matter what. Second, I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned already but I'll keep it vague just in case, there are significant and very problematic side effects for a warder if their Aes Sedai dies that Rand was likely aware of by this point.
Besides, Alanna is not a dark friend,or evil, only misguided. She thinks that someone should put reins on The Dragon Reborn. So, why not her. She knows that doing it without permission is wrong, and how is she to know that she just put reins on a bull not a pony??
Balefire. No problem.
Yup, Warders who loose their Aes Sedai go insta mad with bloodlust due to their suffering, that is why Moiraine "pre-passed on" Lan's bond in case she died, to prevent him going mad and flying off to kill shadowspawn until he died... had he killed Alana then and there he would had most likely gated to the blight and died
Basically if A "Warder's" Aes Sedai dies he goes insane and tries to avenge her death up to the point where he will then die.
@@jwooten933 Bull? Try Dinosaur. Initially I thought It also a Tav'eren thing and that the same thing might happen with mat and/or perrin. Missed chance...Also Alanna was a dipshit. but she got better later on.
Rand's got a hang-up since late book 3/early book 4 about women dying. Where that is coming from is up for debate (killing the woman on his way to Tear? His mental torture in his sleep by the Shadow on the way to Tear? The little girl he couldn't save after the attack on the Stone? Or is it something bleeding through from his past lives), but the first instance of it presenting was with his trouble dealing with Lanfear. So for all intents and purposes, Rand can't kill Alanna in that moment (nor does he know exactly what she did or hoped to accomplish by placing the warder bond on him).
For reference, this is likely inspired by Jordan's own experiences as a soldier. He's told the story of him killing a female Viet Cong soldier in combat and how he could never get over that image.
Didn't Moiraine write about that in her letter to him before she died. Something about the blood of Manetheren that doesn't let him kill a woman
@@meganega123 "Men of the Two Rivers, it seems, retain much of storied Manetheren in them, traits shared with men of the Borderlands. It is said that a Borderlander will take a dagger’s wound to avoid harm to a woman and count it fair trade. I dared not risk that you would place my life above your own, certain that somehow you could sidestep fate. Not a risk, I fear, but a foolish certainty, as today has surely proved."
"I'm not crazy, but the voice in my head is..."
Keep enjoying the series. Oh, and Egwene took a beating in order to meet her TOH with the Aiel, if I remember correctly. She lied to Amys and the other Wise Ones. The beating was not gratuitous.
The beating was also proportional to her pride. Only the person with Toh can know when their Toh has been met, and so as long as she kept on asking/expecting to be beaten they'd keep on beating her. Had she protested after the first hit they'd have stopped there, but they'd have viewed her as having very little honor and pride in herself.
@@johanjarvinen Spot on, Sir.
Yeah, it is all based on the messed up Aiel mentality. Ji'eh'toh is frakking insane as far as this wetlander is concerned (and I'm truly a wetlander, I live in a state surrounded on three sides by water).
Really everyone is this world, but especially Aiel and Aes Sedai have a weird obsession with corporal punishment and extremely severe, private discipline. I've always thought it had something to do with their culture that has held over since the breaking.
One thing I really liked about this book in comparison to the previous ones was the amount of time we spent with the Forsaken. Their squabbling was extremely interesting, and it helped cut up the monotony of the protagonists standing around and doing almost nothing in the beginning.
you're worry about logain but you should also be worrying about Taim. That dude is creepy.
I kinda like him tho. He seems like a badass.
@@mr.teekanee9750 oh yeah for sure but he's a creepy badass xD
If you haven't read the entire series yet, keep reading. Taim is quite....something.
Just finished Lord of Chaos, if Taim and Logain don't end up duelling for the top position of the Black Tower I'll be a bit dissapoint.
David Wilson you have quite the ride ahead of you...
Choosing Egwene as the Amyrlin Seat was a political move, partly because the dissidents had settled into two camps and neither would let the other have it (and both thought they could control her) but also because they believed picking her would help them build trust with Rand.
Which is an hilariously BOLD assumption of them to make with Rand ( *cough* they don't really get along *cough* Egwene annoys the crap out of him *cough* Rand also annoys the crap out of HER *cough* this is funny *cough* )
The Egwene and Gawyn situation... Gawyn's had the hots for her from the start. Elayne keeps on pointing it out to Egwene and keeps on trying to sell Egwene on Gawyn being a better match for her than Galad. Gawyn doesn't act on it because he looks up to Galad and believes he is indebted to Galad, because Galad saved Gawyn's life when he was younger. So when she gets drawn in it's not because she has feelings for Gawyn, but because Gawyn's feelings for her are so overpowering that they draw her in. And she develops her feelings more in response to his show of great affection for her and how he sees her.
I think there's also an issue with everything we missed during the girl's time in the tower. I got the impression that they all spent a lot more time together than we actually saw, and I can totally buy Gawyn and Egwene developing a good relationship without Egwene even realising, because she's so focused on learning. And Galad. Especially because Egwene is kind of timid with Galad, and more open with Gawyn. I could be misremembering though.
@@davidwilson6577 if I remember correctly there is a 6 month time skip in book 2, during that time skip Gawyn and Egwene are training/hanging out at the white tower. In that time they become casual acquaintances through Elayne and Gawyn develpes feelings for Egwene but never makes his move, Egwene seeing his true feelings for her in his dream (alongside all night long dream sex) overwhelms her and she falls in love with how much he loves her.
@@chrissleeping65 I think it's more than casual acquaintance, they act pretty friendly. I mean Elayne would spend a decent amount of time with her brothers, and Egwene would be there a lot too, so it's hard to see how they wouldn't be friendly. Egwyne's romantic interest is focused on Galad but IIRC she definitely has a very fond impression of Gawyn. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure they joke and get on pretty much like members of the main crew do. Does Egwyne compare Galad favourably to Rand, Matt and Perrin's farm boy, easy-going-ness? I think I remember her thinking that Gawyn was also more refined than they were, but she still acts that way with him. The whole forced bliss dream sex thing is pretty awkward and creepy in a non-accusatory way, but she does actually like him a fair bit even at that point, it's not like the dream was such a sudden tidal wave of romantic emotion that she went from 0 to 10 right then and there. It has been a long time though.
@@davidwilson6577 I've only just finished the series for the first time myself so I probably missed the nuances of their friendship, when I do a re read of books 2 and 3 I'll keep a look out for their interactions. As far as Egwene's feelings towards Gawyn are concerned I do remember her infatuation feeling rushed and forced during the events of book 6. The dream sex is 100% creepy on multiple levels, one it's weird to me that Gawyn would fuse a dream about revenge for his mother where he kills Rand with a sex dream where he rescues Egwene. On the other hand its also extremely creepy that Egwene is invading people's privacy by spying on there dreams, ( I remember her being upset and frustrated with Rand for having the audacity of warding off his dreams) when I came to the part where Egwene was trapped by Gawyn's sex fantasy I thought it might be construed as a form of rape, however RJ comments at multiple times through multiple books that Egwene was both horrified and aroused/intrigued at the events of Gawyn's dream. She will often comment to herself in a pov chapter on how she would like to visit Gawyn's dreams again but holds herself back because it would be improper.
I do remember a conversation Egwene has with her friends at the white tower regarding Galad and Gawyn, she says something along the lines of that they are both handsome but Galad is beyond beautiful. I think Elayne tells Egwene that Gawyn has a crush on her but Egwene doesn't believe it or even think about it really because in her mind Gawyn doesn't even speak to her and has trouble making eye contact with her. I believe at this point in the series Egwene was still harboring some romantic feelings for Rand.
@@chrissleeping65 right. Yeah like I said it's been a while, and I've only read them the once myself. The only other thing I'd want to bring up is that while Egwene's dream voyeurism is 99% of the time intrusive and exploitative, in the case of Gawyn she was actually pulled into it against her will. Neither of them are really in control at all. And about the content of Gawyn's dream, dreams can be pretty schismatic, I wouldn't read any more into the proximity of those two ideas than that they're the two things he's most concerned with. It's just characterisation. That kind of goes no-where that interesting, to be honest. One of my biggest issues with the series is that we get all this focus on character drama that makes sense but just gets resolved, like the catharsis of not having to read it anymore is enough to justify it being there in the first place. Or maybe that's just what I remember and there is more to it, I probably shouldn't keep making criticisms when I can't say for sure if I'm remembering it right.
14:50 HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I'm sorry Merphy, but that was priceless. Nearly interrupted my entire office trying to contain my laughter!
it actually scared me lol
Scared me too! I usually listen to Merphy while I work on something else, and she scared the crap out of me. I had to hurriedly run it back to find out what the heck happened. ;D
I may or may not have rewatched that 4 or 5 times
I have been watching a lot of videos from Slapped Ham and Nukes Top Five covering ghosts and scary things caught on camera. For a moment, I thought this was one of those events.
I'm on my first read through and I don't understand why people think gwene and Gawyn are abrupt and insta love. It has been mentioned over and over how Gawyn "loves" her/has a thing for her but doesn't feel like he can or should act on it. Egwene always admired Galad but something in her was making her also look at Gawyn and something about him kept sparking her interest. It's been prevalent since the book we met Gawyn, I dont remember which one. So I'd have to disagree here that it was unexpected and abrupt. We could see it coming.
Yeah, any time she's away from Gawyn and Galad her feelings seem to drift more towards Gawyn. It's just the Galad overpowers everything when he's present. It's easy to miss, but you are right that she does think of Gawyn a few time when they are apart and has done so since they met in book 2.
I'm glad you caught it! I don't think Gawyn's feelings are insta at all - I just felt hers didn't have much build up
@@merphynapier42
Lanfear tells Rand in book 4 or 5 that Egwene's been dreaming about Galad and Gawyn and I think she says more so Gawyn. So it is set up that a two/three way attraction is happening.
A warder wouldn't kill his aes'sedai even if the bond would physically allow it because it would drive him mad and rand doesn't hurt women... one of the most touching scenes in the whole series is when Perrin loses his family and faile makes him let go of his emotional control. Anyone who has been through that grief for someone can vouch that emotionally, the scene was crazy accurate and heartbreaking.
didn't you find the scene with Matt hilarious when he confronts Egwene and the other 2 after he arrives in Salidar and not believing that Egwene could be the Amyrlin? That was pure comedy gold for me.Especially how he confronts Nyneeve. If there is going to be a WOT TV series I so want to see that scene.
Loved that scene
That scene had me cheering for Mat. Finally someone stands up to the bully women in this series, although it ended pretty hilariously.
Mat gets treated like crap this book, but it is pretty funny, and good setup for when he flips the tables back.
I was cheering for him to actually kick Nynaeve
@@nathanjarrett728 I get what you are saying but I wouldn't want him to kick her back, he shouldn't physically touch her but dodge our of way so she falls over on herself and he just points and laughs. That would be funny also,
For me one of the most interesting things about the book was Lews Therin's constant hate towards Taim and the implication of it. I mean why does he scream something like "If I finally kill him, I will make it alright"? Is this just random madness talking, or is Taim actually a Forsaken in disguise/led by a Forsaken? Does he have any connection to Demandred's task?
Don't forget the viewings that Min has had regarding Logain, particularly in The Shadow Rising, chapter 17.
Lord of chaos is such a great book! Dumai's Wells is one of the best action scenes in literature. The ending is fantastic. While 7-10 is only ok, 11-14 are some of the best books ever. It will be difficult to get through them all, but you can do it!
I am loving the 7th 650 pages in. Ebou dar Story line is hilarious and great but I presume that the next book is worse.
@@mr.teekanee9750 7 is good, just not as good as 6. I love what happens with Nyneave. 8 is ok, but is pretty slow. 9 has great moments but is pretty slow. 10 is VERY slow.
@@BooksRebound It's on my TBR for next year. But Wheel of Time is my #1 book series so far.
@@mr.teekanee9750 one of the frustrations is that they are on a downward trend, getting worse and worse. I didn't mind it too much until 10.
@@RichFreeman Book 11 picks up. Books 12, 13, and 14 are my favorite books in the seies.
The problem I have with Wheel of Time (I'm currently on A Crown of Swords) is they start great, then the 2nd act is a drag and I'm ready to quit, and then the third act is awesome and it tricks me into continuing.
Tricks? Read it or don't. I'll agree that pacing is an issue for Jordan and if it's too much of a turn-off, put them down. If you can deal with it, enjoy the books and accept the flaws.
jarock1974 That seems quite an extreme reaction to my comment, but cool. I’m finishing up ACoS now.
@@mikesbookreviews You're right. It probably is a bit of an overreaction. I did not care for your implication that you really should not be reading the books.
I'll watch your reviews for a better idea on just what you think of the books before I comment any more.
jarock1974 No worries at all. I actually do like the series quite a bit. I just feel as if a good edit with a scalpel could make them better. Also, I believe he was the best third act writer in the genre.
You really hit the nail on the head with the relationship issues. I knew I hated it for obvious reasons but you kinda explained my feelings on it in better words than I had
Jordan's romantic relationships are "abrupt, jarring, and unconvincing." - Yes, especially considering the animosity of males and females toward one another throughout the narrative.
It's mostly because of the unreliable third person combined with stuff happening off screen.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
not really imho. Faeil and perin have the best romance (at least for the first five books) that developed naturally and her whole personality is calling him dumb and threatening him. It just seems like Jordan prioritized magic and politics over romance, so most of the couples spend little time together to naturally develop feelings.
Wolves “what’s up”
Perrin “they caged shadow killer”
Wolves “k, we fight too”
Regarding Faile. Remember whose PoV you're viewing her through. Perrin is basically out there reading peoples underlying emotions and then talking to them as if they were acting them out rather than trying to suppress them. So Faile feels jealous, and he calls her out on it even though there's no outward indication. And this is just one way in which he is making it damn hard for her to continue to like him. Imagine yourself in her place and I'm sure you'll find that it'd get on your nerves pretty quick as well. (Also he has a few bad habits in regards to how he treats her like she's fragile but most of that is yet to come.)
A better way for Perrin to handle it when he smells Faile's jealousy would be to show her he loves/wants her. Cop a feel, give her a kiss, whatever just to show her she's the object of your affections and desires and nobody else.
Understanding this was key for me appreciating their dynamic. Perrin acts on things Faile isn't actually doing just feeling instead of just paying attention to what she says.
The third or fourth read-through it occurred to me: he doesn't know what Faile is jealous of. He knows she's jealous, but he never asks what it's for. She could be worked up about her rival's dress, and then he specifically tells her that he noticed said rival in said dress.
If I was Faile that would drive me fucking insane.
Later on in the books, Perrin learns the key to what Faile is all about and after that I think she really shines. Her cultural background is so very different than Perrin's and is really the source of their difficulties. Faile is actually one of my favorite characters. You just need to understand her.
Faile still sucks, tho
I also fell for that Faile is bad trap until someone pointed out that exact point "It's all only Perrins PoV. And Perrin smells her feeling doesn't mean she actually shows these feelings". Now the more I think about it the worse Perrin looks in this situation. Which totally innocent person says only "it's not what it looks like" when he get's "caught" by somebody. Just tell her what happened. Then when Faile is upset and doesn't talk to him in the evening and instead of talking about it, he hides the next few days on hunts.
And maybe just tell Belerain that you are not interested in her. I don't think he actually ever tells her that direct into the face.
He may thinks the right things but he for sure doesn't do the right things.
Just finished this book, and I absolutely loved it. It may be second favorite of the 6 I’ve read so far. I feel so opposite of most of this review. I loved all the little moments. All the plotting and scheming. There are so many great payoffs. Siuan and Logain getting healed, Egwene raised to Amarilyn, Perrin taking charge and coming into his own, Rand being a leader and a warlord, Rand suffering, the last battle in the climax, the AES Sadai bending the knee. I loved it. So many great moments.
14:56 scared the living daylights out of me lol. Great review, really enjoyed listening to your thoughts!
- i love nynaeve's arc because i can so clearly see and understand how frustrated she is about being both one of the most powerful aes sedai and unable to access her powers at will. stay tuned for how she evolves though!
- rand's thought process while creating the black tower was probably that the last battle is very close, so they need male channelers to fight, even if some of them will go a bit insane until then hahaha
- there are a lot of interesting things regarding bonding in the later books!!
- i like to think that each character has multiple continuous stories happening at the same time and the books are merely arbitrary divisions to facilitate readability. but i agree that he could have done a better job of separating these stories
- holy shit, i thought there was a murderer there with you, i almost had a heart attack hahahaha
- i don't think it's that they don't care about rand's consent regarding their relationship, it's more about how rand thinks himself a 'gentleman' who thinks it's wrong to be with more than one person at the same time, and the three are all like 'we don't care dude, we just want to be with you'
- dumai's well REALLY fucks rand up. stay tuned
Oh my god, i’m sorry, I know this is not the most important part of this video by far. But the part where your son starts talking to you and the way you reacted I was literally driving while listening to you talk about the bird and I just started laughing and I had to watch that part a few times while I was just laughing out loud, because yeah. That was hilarious. Thank you for that, made my day, very cute.
8:15
Well, upto this point in the series, Rand's reluctance to hurt women has been made very clear. Heck, he couldn't even bring himself to kill Lanfear who was literally about to do the same to him. So it should come as no surprise that he let Alanna go.
Im glad I've been consistently ahead of you in this series because I like not worrying about spoilers. I had a little trouble in the middle of this series, everything seemed to slow down but I think its commonly called the slog in the community but I'm not 100 percent sure.
This is probably my all-time favorite series, but it’s nice to see someone experience it through a fresh set of eyes. It’s good to be reminded of the series imperfections because I have become so in love with the series and certain characters that it’s easy to overlook some of those things. I definitely hope you continue to read the series. The pay off is well worth the journey. There are a couple of books that are always hard for me to get through on my rereads. Book 8 and book 10 or definitely two of the hardest for me. With all that being said, I loved the world that Robert Jordan created. I’m excited to see what you think about future installments of the series. By the way, you have not yet begun to see Rand become unhinged! Just wait! Lol
I loved this. The in between moment were actually really great. I normally like my books straight to the point but I enjoy being in this world and with these characters so much.
Wheel of Time is a series you either love, warts and all, or you just don't. There's not a whole lot of middle ground, and even the long time die hard fans admit that it has flaws.
lol some of them. Most I run across will admit it has flaws right before they go on to explain in great detail why they aren’t really flaws.
You scared the shit out of me when you freaked out that your phone was doing something.
I just finished Lord of Chaos about an hour ago! It was nice to see some fresh recap immediately after.
I'm crawling through WoT at a little more than a book a year over all at this point (read the first three within a year, took me the next four years to read the next three) so it's always fun when I bump into people who are at roughly the same spot regardless of their pace.
"They have caged Shadowkiller"
We come.
Chills
Daddy Mat is like the most adorable thing ever, don't worry there's a LOT more of him coming. More of Elayne than you can handle as well
Rand is a good little Two Rivers boy who despite being around the Aiel for months is still totally freaked out at this whole concept.
Without spoiling it. Does he get one over on those girls?
They've made his life hell. They traumatised him book 3, and constantly make a mockery of him, and are now acting like he's unreasonable for having that item that won't let the one power touch him.
@@nathanjarrett728 Yes yes he does don't worry even Elayne can eventually be made to see sense
Merphy on Alanna: "What can I say, sometimes you gotta kill a bitch."
Book 2 Review: "A lot of people say that they don't like the way Jordan writes women, but I really love these characters!:
Book 6: "I've already said this a lot, so I won't rant, but the WOMEN!"
I liked that book way more than the fires of heaven, because I can not stand Elayne and her "I'll make Rand my warder and when I do I make sure that he will answer me when I ask a question and does what I tell him too" and I am like no fuck you leave him alone...
Yea when i read that i was like, “good luck with that Elayne”
Love the reaction at 14:50. It's hilarious because it's so genuine.
I do wish that a more focused reckoning regarding consent in the world was explored. There were ample examples that could be linked through the evil of power-over relationships from compulsion, to the a'dams, to bonding, to consent with regards to healing, all the way to the basic choices between good and evil.
How each book focuses on certain characters is a bit like threads in a weave. Each thread rises to the surface, and then plunges under the other threads. Almost like Jordan did this on purpose ;)
I love how you detest the 3way forced thing on Rand!!
Trust in Perrin and Matt!! Fekin wonderful! Both of them! Elaine, Min and Avienda do get great too! They still beat Rand into the way they want. But acceptance does happen too.
Actually Lord of Chaos was the first big book I ever read I started a new job doing security and basically I was alone for 12 hours a night so I went to the library and picked it because I thought the cover looked interesting. I admit I was lost in some places but I enjoyed the ride the story took me on, and then I found out it was a series and I was hooked. I’ve been a reader ever since and it’s been more than 20 years.
The entirety of this book is one of my personal favorites along with book 4 because of the sheer amount of Rand chapters. Lord of Chaos actually spoiled me a bit because from this book on, Rand point of view chapters become much more sparse.
Mat Cauthon spoilers bro
Min is rising star as far as my favorite characters go in Wheel of Time
"She free's Logain! I don't think this will work out well." lmao.
1.what was that swinging and yelp about?
2. I am rereading the series and am on crossroads of twilight. My first read I felt a slog but I don’t feel it in this reread yet. I think I was in a hurry to know rands story line that I dismissed all other story lined as roadblocks. Now that I am paying more attention to others and details I love every book so far (sure some more than others).
Agreed. I feel WOT is even better on rereads!
So many of these points are so spot on. Especially the rant on power dynamics.
I think the reason for the "Insta-love" with most of the characters is because, they have so many other things going on....learning the One Power, Aes Sedai training, being the Dragon Reborn, trying to save the world, dealing with talking to wolves, etc. for each character, it's something different, that when they finally realize they are in love it's like...oh, where did this come from...I have no time for this.
Book 6 is always a weird one for me. I remember it as one of my favourites, then when I re read I’m sat there thinking ‘come on, something happen already’, until I hit the end which is so awesome I remember it as one of my favourites again.
I really hope you do manage to get through the slog, the last few books are so worth it and honestly I don’t know how an ending to a series could match that of wheel of time. You’ve spent so long with the characters that by that point every good thing that happens feels truly earned, while anything bad is like it’s happening to a friend.
So about the Women in WoT, imo their portrayal is supposed to be of a world where women have been in power for a long time, but this matriarchy, like the patriarchy of our own world has lots of flaws because we're all human.
He wants to show that even though women are in charge, because we're human too much power will lead to undesirable behaviors, like the thing that happened between Alanna and Rand, which was definitely a harassment and crossed lots of red lines.
Just like men in the real world, the women in WoT put down the opposite gender, call them dumb, don't use their opinions when they make decisions and are obnoxious about it.
I must say though that sometimes he over does this, but when you have 14 books about a single story you'll probably overdo everything thats possible.
Pooya Shirazi
You really think we live in a patriarchy? Don’t look at politicians or leaders. Look at laws and rules Just suggesting. It may be eye opening.
@Anne Day I'm confused about the whole, patriarchy we live in thing, but the matriarchy they live in is so right and so scary as well. In regards to the good example I think I know what you're talking about and that was just... vile and horrible. The world is amazing but I kinda hate it for how much men and women are at each other's throats as well. Why can't they just love each other?
@Anne Day I know.
Whole towns got married because of Rand walking by. The pattern is shifting parts & people together which makes sense at the end
It's not explicitly stated why Shadowspawn cannot travel through gateways, but the reason is known (via interviews and later books). It is because they aren't naturally occurring. They're living constructs (and the rule holds for non-shadowspawn constructs as well btw).
Johan Järvinen they can travel through waygates. That's how they go to the Two Rivers in the first place. They just can't go through gateways.
@@ferransilves907 A mistake obviously, edited it to fix it.
It is explicitly stated in KoD when that big thing happened at the manor in Tear.
"Loial's mom and bethrothed" sounds wrong out of context...
Egwane submitting to punishment by the Aiel wise ones under Jiehtoh. I think its important to notice that she determined how much punishment she had to go through to meet her "toh," and she took the punish "Like a true Aiel" and the wiseones showed genuine love and respect for her afterwards, before she left to go to Salidar.
I am reading the series for a second time, I am about half way through Fires of Heaven and enjoying it just as much as the first time
I actually think the whole gawen and egwayne romance makes sense. it's been mentioned in the other books that galad and gawyn have a thing for her so there's that much and then it even mentions how egwayne in earlier books thinks fondly of gawyn even though it's not exactly 100% love she's open to the possibility. then she gets sucked into his dream and goes through some intimate things with him even though it's a dream I imagine it feels real when it happens. also when you find out someone you're interested in also reciprocates those feelings it's hard to not be happy and get caught up in the moment. I've seen others do this as well as myself getting caught up in those types of situations romantically. it's flattering and makes you more open to someone when you find out they like you.
another point I'd like to make is that these 2 are going through life or death situations so it's easier to get caught up in the now with things like this because you never know if you'll survive the next day etc. overall it might be a little fast but it's believable. personally I didn't pick up on lan and nynaeve till he dropped it on us. so at least he put some foreshadowing on this one.
14:51 Rand when Lews Therin starts talking
If you can be *really* patient and sit back and let the world wash over you, knowing it all pays off and pays off BIG, you’ll enjoy it a lot more. The “slog” is actually my favorite part of the series because you get to spend so much time with the characters.
I just watched all of your WoT reviews back to back and I have to say, I’m really enjoying listening to your first reactions to these books! I just finished the series a few months ago (after a few attempts) and it’s really interesting to compare your thoughts to my own. Throughout the series I felt that Jordan included a LOT of stuff that could have been cut without affecting the story/characters at all, and I always feel bad for thinking that, because I do like WoT so much. Glad I’m not the only one!
Merphy: "Hey google: Scare the sh!t out of me during tomorrow's video."
Google: "I will." 14:49
Somebody meme that. Please.😀
because ending really make or break my overall experience with a book, this ended up being my second fav in the series
The hardest book for me was Winter's Heart....but again it has an amazing ending. Keep going the series is amazing! Oh and Gawynn just sucks...
The whole sister wives thing for Rand is my least favorite part of the entire series so far! Just like you’ve mentioned with all of Jordan’s other relationships they are so unbelievable and make me dislike Elayne and Min (more than Aviendah) because all they ever obsess about is their feelings for Rand and what they are willing to accept from him despite never discussing it with him. The whole fact that it’s basically implied to happen by the end of the series because of Min’s visions is equivalent to shoving this polygamous mess down the reader’s throat.
Completely agree, the only relationship ran had that was earned and had buildup was with Aviendha
My favorite part of the series, easily. Elayne & Rand's love is insta-love. They are both beautiful and powerful people and that is the gist of it. They aren't together much for it to matter though anyway. Aviendha and Rand's love is one of the few earned relationships in the series, but it's damn frustrating to get through. I hate it when characters aren't being honest with each other. In comparison to that, Min and Rand is totally a breath of fresh air in comparison, and one of the only times a man and a woman in the series actually act like they enjoy each other's company. Min's determination to get Rand to look at her as more than a friend in the lead up to the final battle is one of my favorite parts of this entire series. Best female character easily, and Rand's true partner, IMO.
These books were written years apart, so I think Jordan thinks we need help remembering things/people. And he really wants us to know when skirts were smoothed :P
I finally caught up with you! The combination of you saying you were enjoying the series and Daniel Greene extolling the virtues of these books, as well as covering the upcoming TV show, got me to give these books another try. It's been back and forth between OK and amazing.
I think that last time I tried, about a decade ago, I got a tiny bit further, because I remember a couple of things that seem like they haven't happened yet, but they are blurry memories at best.
One thing you didn't mention that I was super focused on this whole book was Lews Therin's desperation to kill Mazrim Taim. He goes on and on about it, and the way he talks about it makes me think that Taim is Demandred in disguise, or maybe Osan'gar (I'm not sure who Osan'gar and Aran'gar were, though they have to be male since neither is Lanfear and none of the other female Forsaken are dead)?
I agree with you about Elayne and Gawyn, but I also hate Perrin and Faile (not Perrin individually, just the relationship). Faile is abusive as all hell, and I hate it.
With Logain, I do wonder whether he is going to end up on the side of good or bad in the end. I do think that either he or Taim will end up a bad guy, the other a good guy.
Mat is my favourite character, so the nugget that is most important to me from this book is what we learned about his necklace: In the previous book, it seemed like saidin could kill him, but it must have been indirect because Aran'gar channelled at him and it failed, so he must be resistant to both, I think.
Nynaeve healing logain was such an awesome moment i had to sit down for like an hour after that. Egwene really starts to come into her own in this book IMO. Rand putting Mazrim Tiam in charge of the black tower makes it all the more scary. The Rand and Lews Therin dynamic is my favorite part of the whole series. I agree with you about the character balance sometimes you will not hear about a character for like 2 or 3 books and when you hear from then again you are like wait who is this?? The battle at the end is really the first time we get to see just how destructive and scary channeling can be. It wasn't the rebel Aes Sedai that swear fealty to rand it was Elaida's people from the white tower. The repetition gets even worse in the next few books.
The rebels are forced to swear as well. The reasoning for this is because they broke Rand's rule as to how many Aes Sedai could approach him. Although 'forced' is an interesting term. Most of the Aes Sedai later consider it Ta'veren twisting as opposed to being physically forced. While they are threatened, nothing is actually physically done to them. Even post torture, I suspect Rand could not have stomached watching them harmed in order to get them to swear.
***SPOILER*** I could see it after he reaches his Darth Rand point when forced to choke Min. ***SPOILER***
I'm worried about Merphy finishing the series if she's already feeling slog as of LoC. It's still one of the faster and more popular books with most readers. CoS, PoD, WH, and especially CoT are far slower. Having re-read this series many, many times, one of Jordan's strengths is how much detail he puts into all of his work. The problem with all of those details are that they don't necessarily advance the main plot. On re-read, he gives you tons of hints and details on how things work and just how interconnected things are that you will never pick up on the 1st read. On first read, they feel like a waste of time because it is impossible to pick up how they impact the story.
I absolutely love this series, but I will admit, it isn't for everyone.
I love this series in concept but he can ramble on
Yeah, I listened to book 10 at higher speed...
After 4, i listened to all of them at a slightly higher speed--some as fast as 2-2.5, and some of them were STILL 40 hours to complete. I swear he could cut like a whole 1000 page book out of the middle slog, and an argument can be made for another, smaller one out of the rest because of the redundant descriptions and overly described scenes. And yet they were a treat to read all the same. How the crud did he do that?
I didn't see anyone mention it yet, but the reason why Min, Elayne, and Aviendha agreed to share Rand, regardless of his feelings, is that Min had a Viewing that they would, and her Viewings always come true, even if she doesn't understand them.
They had to accept it because they don't have a choice (It probably doesn't help that he's *majorly* Ta'veren, too, lol).
Logain is involved in some serious gut punch emotional scenes, without spoiling how he's involved. The one with the toddler especially omg.
Also Jordan sucks at building relationships, but he's very good at existing healthy relationships. But yeah so much instalove and so much just Gawyn in general. Faile's parents and Rhuarc and Amys are awesome
The first time I read though this series Jordan's heavy handedness with the women's power trips really bothered me. But I was able to see past it better my second time and I loved the books so much more then.
Oh no. I'm so used to watching your review after each book. Will miss it when I pass book 11
I’ve read the series about a dozen times and I’m soooo entertained by your reviews. I’m sure you’ve gotten someone to read a series before, so now I have that thing where I want you to hurry up and finish it but also can’t help but sit here with that knowing grin 😆
I started reading about the time WH was released. I’ve read the series multiple times. Early books more than late books because I did re reads in prep for later book releases. I’m re reading for the first time in about 12 years. I’m enjoying Merphy’s fresh take as a first time reader. It’s refreshing. 😄
Okay, when you jumped when your phone decided to become self-aware and speak, I jumped too! I thought shrodinger's cat decided to materlize in front of you or something!
Great review of LoC! I respect your opinions on the story and your problems with Jordan's idiosyncracies. I liked the same parts you did. I also am very glad you are one of the few reviewers that recognize that the men seem to be made into 2nd class citizens when dealing directly with women. Especially, when the women get together to bully said men. In the series as a whole but also it's magnified in what happens to Rand.
I, mostly, saw it as a funny cultural quirk of the world brought about because Men are universally blamed for the Breaking(instead of the Dark One who is responsible) and the way women have dealt with men since the breaking is a trickle down effect, I think, of that massive historical tragedy. The more I re-read the series, the more this thought becomes more logical. Jordan's constructed world is very much a matriarchy in it's relationship with men and sort of a reverse image of our own world where men have used their own influence and the world, until recently, is tacitly agreed upon as a patriarchy. In our world, traditionally, men have held the more dominant roles over society and change in history with women holding mostly supporting roles in comparison. I like that Jordan flips that on it's head and creates a complex culture that reverses the roles but that because 3 Ta-veren have come into the world, a shift starts to happen. An ebb and flow of ups and downs in a the world where men and women continually get more or less powerful as the series progresses.
There is so much to dissect in this series and I love it!
If Rand has killed Alanna it would have driven him insane as a result of the warder bond being broken and he would’ve gone on a rampage. Alanna thought she’d get away with it because when an Aes Sedai bonds a non channeler man they can manipulate their actions, however because Rand can channel he can’t be controlled in this way.
Balefire exists
I still can't get over how mean Egwene and Nynaeve are to Matt for no reason. They haven't seen him in forever and the first thing they think of is to yell and channel at him.
You are in for such a ride. I bought book 1 the day it came out and every book since. Ok, I just got to the point where your phone freaked you out, too cute. Now I'm at the part where you're on a rant about how the 3 decide Rand's fate. I'm guessing you're not married yet, also you have to remember that the pattern shapes around Rand and gives him what he needs. It is very much the love of those 3 that brought him through the madness. Where the Aes Sedai swear fealty to him, that's the pattern working. Logain...oh he is a special treat. The Battle of Dumai Wells not only makes the book worthwhile it makes the upcoming TV series one of the most anticipated things in my life. Get through the slough and when you close the final book you'll forget about the wasted ink and want to re-read the whole thing again. I'm on my 10th.
I'm a few chapters into book 8 now, and these reviews are a nice refresher on what I read last month, and it's quite interesting to hear somebody else's viewpoint after just recently reading the previous books. Most people seem to have read the whole series multiple times already..
I always did think that Lan and Nynaeve's relationship was very sudden, just BAM! from out of nowhere. I don't think they ever even talked to each other, and then suddenly they're in love. And Rand is pretty hilarious, falling in love with everybody!
The Nynaeve and Lan romance "starts" in Chapter 16, Eye of the World:
> “I am interested,” he said, “in how you found us.”
> “So am I.” Moiraine leaned forward intently. “Perhaps you are willing to speak now that Egwene and the boys have been brought to you?”
> Nynaeve sipped the wine before answering the Aes Sedai. “There was nowhere for you to go except Baerlon. To be safe, though, I followed your trail. You certainly cut back and forth enough. But then, I suppose you would not care to risk meeting decent people.”
> “You . . . followed our trail?” Lan said, truly surprised for the first time that Rand could remember. “I must be getting careless.”
> “You left very little trace, but I can track as well as any man in the Two Rivers, except perhaps Tam al’Thor.” She hesitated, then added, “Until my father died, he took me hunting with him, and taught me what he would have taught the sons he never had.” She looked at Lan challengingly, but he only nodded with approval.
> “If you can follow a trail I have tried to hide, he taught you well. Few can do that, even in the Borderlands.”
> Abruptly Nynaeve buried her face in her cup. Rand’s eyes widened. She was blushing. Nynaeve never showed herself even the least bit disconcerted. Angry, yes; outraged, often; but never out of countenance. But she was certainly red-cheeked now, and trying to hide in the wine.
The reason Nynaeve is so affected by this simple compliment/acknowledgement of her ability is that she's had to fight so hard for any recognition as a young Wisdom. She's desperate for someone to just accept her and tell her she's good as she is and Lan offers it up freely.
@@johanjarvinen Aah, thanks! I remember that scene now, but I'd forgotten about it. There's just so much to take in on a first read of this series.
I'm actually looking forward to a reread, I'm sure lots of things will pop up that didn't make sense the first time round..
@@JoeBob79569 Yeah, that's why it's so often mentioned as such a great series to re-read, because Jordan just jams so much foreshadowing and so many subtle details in there that you can't possibly grasp on your first go-around.
@@johanjarvinen Indeed. Another example of this is with Ishamael. When Rand is fighting him, he thinks he's fighting the Dark One, and so we, the readers, just kind of assume the same. At least that's what happened with me..
I didn't really know who, or what, the Forsaken were, and there was not much detail about them at the beginning.. It was all a bit chaotic..
@@JoeBob79569 Nobody really picks up on Ishy being free at the start, and yet the prologue takes place after the sealing of the bore and Ishamael is just openly confronting LTT. It's literally right there in front of your nose and yet most readers don't see it because they don't yet know why it matters, and by the time they get the information they'd have needed to put it together they're far enough from the prologue to not put it together.
I'm sorry but I laughed way too hard at you freaking out when the phone started speaking :D
Aaaaaaa
This book was so gooood, there were moments when I cried and others when I started jumping and going around my room from frustration and I was sooooo happy with logain and siuan I love min
And the ending
Wow
Wow
Wow
I finished it for the first time an hour ago and still cant sleep from all the emotions (it’s 4 am for me)
I had the exact same reaction to nyneaves healing the stilling. I was like shiit Rand is going to get gentled and then when the aes sedai captured him I was like omg but it didn't happen):
I'm glad you are reading this series...I stopped half way through book 7 and gave them all away...just don't like the series enough to slog through. But, I will be following your reviews to see what happens...you make it much more palatable listening to your overview in 20 minutes than slogging through weeks at a time for each book. :)
Also, the slog is generally considered 7-10, but I really think that the only reason LoC gets excluded is that Dumai's Wells is so wild that it makes people forget that the rest is every bit as slow as 7-10 (honestly, I think Fires of Heaven drags a bit, too). The thing is, there continue to be interesting moments throughout the slog, and I think it only got as bad of a rap as it did because readers were waiting years between installments, only to have a book come out where there wasn't much forward progression. a LOT of cool stuff happens throughout the slog.
Been watching this review and it reminds me of those great times when I read this for the first time, which is a weird dichotomy. So I started reading this when book 5 was new. So the first time was an absorption to book 5. Then it became this thing I would read the series every time a new book came out. I have only read the last book once. Now I want to do the whole series again. I blame you, but it is that great kind of blame.
Shadow creatures cannot use Gateways, but they can use Waygates. I don't recall Jordan explaining why.
All Shadowspawn are constructs, (i.e. they were given life using the One Power as opposed to being naturally occurring.) The Nym (Green Men) and even the Tree of Life are also constructs. Jordan decided early on that no construct could survive going through a gateway (probably to avoid the Shadow from being able to instantly transport their armies wherever and whenever they wanted back when Rand was the only good guy how could make a gateway.) No better explanation is ever given to my knowledge.
Faile was taking care of lordly duties in the Two Rivers. Which Perrin should have been doing, but he didn't want to. And she is basically a princess and knows how to do that stuff, and does it pretty well.
I just finished LoC. I’m not worried about Logaine (given min’s vision) I AM worried about Mazrim Taim though. That dude is definitely up to some shenanigans. I need Min’s reading on him ASAP in A Crown of Swords.
I love Dumai's Wells so much, it is such a turning point in the world. The only reason I hate Perrin and Faile (is that how you spell it?) Is I really can't forgive them for being the main focus in the slog and slowing everything up so much. But I LOVED Perrin at the start of the series.
Egwene's story arc is my favorite of the series.
I really loved the book but yea, some scenes were a little slow but still not as slow as The Eye of the world for me at least. The ending was so badass.
Great review. Thank you.
I don't see why people told you that the women will get better as you go, because they don't. In fact, Cadsuane shows up and she is the worst of all.
I'd say most the female readers that I've heard from don't like the three wives for Rand, but considering he is supposed to die after saving the world, I don't think any of the women saw it as a long time deal. They were going to take what they could when they could. Rand very willingly consents to all three so I have no issue with it. Rand needed Elayne for what she could do for him and the world afterwards. He needed Aviendha for what she taught him about his true heritage. And I think he needed Min most of all to keep himself sane and aware that the world was worth fighting for. Rand is my favorite character and Min and Elayne are my favorite female characters, so the three wives is actually my favorite part of the series.
Min finally making it back to Rand, and their reunion is definitely one of my favorite scenes in the book. It is so great to see a man and woman actually take joy in seeing each other. Min's attempts to get Rand to see her as more than a friend in the build-up to the finale is one of my favorite parts in the entire series. It is the only romantic courtship that is in the series, despite the many, many relationships in it.
Perrin's character was partially ruined by Faile. He is still great at times, but always a mega simp now.
Matt got all hell to do here, but that will change. Elayne's attempts to manipulate him are infuriating, as much as I like her. Considering she is always true to her word, they could have worked something out but decided to be stupid about the whole thing. It was a consolation to hear she wasn't the one channeling at him and was mad that it was happening. She's a graet character most the time.
Egwene's sudden love for Gawyn is ludicrous. They were literally together for 2 of the 4000 pages to that point. This book also ruined Gawyn's character. He should have died at Dumai Wells. Only plot armor saved his dumb ass.
I agreed with almost everything you said. Take away Dumai Wells and Min's reunion with Rand, and this book wouldn't be much different than books 8-10. Just not enough happening. Too much of women trying to manipulate each other. And all the repetition gets onerous. FANTASTIC world building though.
The thing is, Alana had just bonded him. If he killed her the bond would break and he would totally loose it. Bad things happen when the warder bond breaks. Also, Alana was banking on the idea that she would be able to control him with the bond which works for other men, but not Rand (and presumably other male channelers)
Balefire tho
For the first five books up to this point I thought that Aes Sedai were somewhat misunderstood, and that while there were bad apples among them, most were probably doing good. This book convinced me of the opposite - the average Aes Sedai is pretty much just as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Only a handful like Moiraine are determined to do the right thing. I feel like its the tower training itself which cultivates them to be cruel and unsympathetic to the needs of those on the outside, while also being extremely competitive and factional on the inside. IMO, other than Elyne, Egwene, Nineve, Siuan, and Leane, I can't really say that the Salidar Aes Sedai are any better than the Tower Aes Sedai for the purposes of preparing for Tarmon Gai'don. This made me appreciate Moiraines decision to let Rand off the leash in book 2 and later to follow his orders in book 5 so much. Those two choices alone show more maturity, humility, and commitment to the cause than all other Aes Sedai put together have shown up to this point.
Yeah, Moraine is definitely the standout. Even the so-called "good" Aes Sedai are questionable in some ways. Almost every single one of them boils down their existence to how well they can control others. Egwene had a genuine sociopath moment in book five where she was excited over manipulating Nynaeve into being afraid of her. She even starts thinking about how she can apply the same attitude toward others to get what she wants. Elayne's first thought of how to get Rand under control is to bond him and force him to do what she wants. Nynaeve is unnecessarily mean to anyone who makes her slightly uncomfortable for any reason at all. Hell, the way all of them treat Mat is a good indication of how none of them can be trusted to hold power over anyone. It's so weird how Mat has never been anything but helpful to them and they still act like he's worse than a Forsaken. lol