@@Jacob-io7ct It is. The person who assigns flight numbers has a sense of humor. When San Francisco legalized marijuana, flight 420 from Phoenix was briefly assigned to the PHX to SFO flight. For a while, flight 777 went from PHX to LAS (Las Vegas)
Total cringe because basically the ATC was the PIC for a second. If that happened to me I would have to land overweight just to avoid the embarassment haha
There is no overweight landing limitation that is a high risk / priority for most circumstances in CRJ (Obviously we still avoid it under normal conditions). - If you will land overweight there is a procedure (literally land softly) and it is usually just a call to MX and computer report/sign off. - In this situation on PHX huge runways it should play no factor really. MLG Overheat Procedure when temp doesn’t go down is to “land at nearest suitable airport”... so there is some urgency but since plane doesn’t seem to be on fire, doing 1 more lap to burn some fuel and go over plan 1 more time seems like a fine decision, but landing overweight should also be a perfectly reasonable option here. A lot is happening during a return to field, so not noticing or not discussing being overweight (something that has almost no effect on safety of flight in this case) is really a very minor issue.
@@Sports-Jorge yes. Going around may have been an unnecessary, but good decision. The funny thing is though is the pilots had to be reminded of that detail.
@@andriworld the point is seems like the pilot didn’t notice they were overweight until the controller ask. If they already analyzed the situation properly, they would tell the controller right away that they gonna land overweight.
@@andriworld Yes, and maybe. CRJs have somewhat of a history of gear overheat sensor malfunctions. Manuals still require the crew to land nearest suitable in the event, but if they are reasonably sure it is the sensor just gone bad and nothing worse doesnt hurt to mitigate the weight. Particularly if the gear has already been lowered, which seems likely in this case. Lowering the gear would likely extinguish a fire if there was one.
Pilots always know if they are overweight. They do this stuff all the time in training and on EVERY NORMAL LANDING DONE. To calculate the approach flap speeds and landing speeds you need to use an AIRCRAFT WEIGHT CARD. Landing overweight conformation, gives the Emergency vehicles an idea where to locate the EMERGENCY vehicles, and estimate where the aircraft will stop.
Mhh, not a great performance of the cockpit crew: - No declaration of emergency until the end - No plan what to do when reporting the issue, nor later - Thinking about the landing first time when base turning - Most valueable inputs are made from ATC They should have had enough fuel to declare the emergency, let ATC vector them around till everythings is sorted out and stay ahead of the aircarft. But excellent job from ATC.
Happy new year all. I am seroiusly considering not viewing any more of these videos [ no offence ] I think a lot of you guys on this site are seriously saying what you think others want to hear. EVERY THING YOU SAID HERE IS WRONG yet 30 [ thumbs up ] approvals. These pilots are not as experienced as pilots on the larger JET airplane [ I previously flew commuter flights ] so you may see some minor mistakes. From the moment the pilot requested to return to the airport, and asked for emergency equipment, this WAS an emergency. The controller asking the souls onboard and fuel remaining, meant everyone was "onboard" that it was an emergency. No plan what to do when reporting the issue????, where are you getting that from ?. they requested return to the airport and the STANDBY replies were a sign of performing checklist and sometimes copilot [ on the radio ] consulting with the Captain before answering. Thinking about the landing first time when on base???, the controller wanted the crew to know he was not rushing them into landing, so they can have more time burning fuel before accepting landing sequence. [ It is legal to land overweight during an emergency ] Most valuable inputs are made from ATC ???, While the ATC responce was excelent, the Crew worked thier ASS OFF to get the aircraft processed through the emergency, for a return and landing. The crew completed several checklist and were effctive during the emergency. I respect freedom of speach but you are not in a learning mode if you are just FARTING OUT opinions that you think will go over well. Seek to learn about the field of aviation, pick up a book and study, especially requlations, Strive to be effective when in the cockpit if you fly, and spend less time on the internet. It will seriously improve the kind of comments that you contribute. I wish everyone well.
@@RUclips.TOM.A You are wasting your breath. While there are a handful of folks who ask reasonable questions trying to learn something, far too many Flight Sim jockeys and grizzled old cAPTs have the cause already wrapped up before the NTSB GO Teams even get a call.
@@16MedicRN as with all training, more so I know 100% with my company. That would be part of the departure brief. Would talk about it when discussing single engine out if there was terrain avoidance and things like that. If they had no plan for that and did suffer an engine out in departure I would have no doubt that this could have been a very different story
That was my first thought as well. Unnecessarily landing overweight, especially without realising it, when you already have a possible gear problem would not be smart.
It came to my mind that maybe he was the first officer dealing with an idiot captain that made him ask dumb questions on the radio and hated the situation...
I'm going to assume that one of the pilots got a bit of coaching about mumbling over the radio after this was all over. I mumble at times too, but communicating clearly over radio isn't a key part of my job.
For simplicity, Airplane weight is always ZERO FUEL WEIGHT plus FUEL WEIGHT. That information is on the performance page for glass cockpit aircraft and is easily available. Airline Pilots are quite aware of being overweight when you [ stop short and ] do not fly to your destination, There are checklist needed to be run, briefing of cabin attendants, briefing of passengers, setting up landing procedures in the computer and navigation radios. The controllers were trying to help, In order to compute landing speeds you will obtain the weight of the aircraft, first.
What if the gear is really on fire and you waste time in the air calculating landing weight and briefing the pax. What happens in these moments isn’t as obvious as you might think sitting comfortably in a climate controlled room with zero stress. Also, landing overweight is non issue. Mx will look at the parameters. What if they all died because the gear was actually on fire and it actually became a huge issue while they’re flying around. They dealt with that first by getting back close to the field. Then yeah, sure, let’s take a look at the landing weight.
It's skywest, their planes are bad, everyone hates skywest but skywest, their planes have tons of problems too. My ex bf works there and has told me more than once the landing gear hasn't dropped and he's only been flying about three years (I'm a flight attendant)
No freaking way. Saw the title and thought "hey maybe it's the Skywest that flies into Durango." Sure as shit, it was. I live 10 minutes from Durango lol. For some reason, this made my day🤣
September 1963: Swissair Flight 306 crashed in Durrenasch, shortly after take-off in Zurich. Overheated brakes caused an in-flight fire. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306. Like we have seen with the Concorde crash, fire can destroy the plane very quickly. So if I were the Skywest crew, I would prefer to land asap, instead of making another turn that will make only a small difference for the overweight landing.
The pilot monitoring with the foreign accent who was doing most of the talking sounds a bit clueless and not very confidence-inspiring. The fact that they didn’t consider landing weight is extremely surprising.
While a faulty sensor is probably the most likely possibility, it's not the only possibility. The FAA (and many other civilian aviation authorities) position is it's better to play it safe. It's better to land as soon as safely possible and inconvenience the passengers than to gamble and have the flight crew be wrong in their assessments.
Do you have any ATC of BA640 on 26th December? FO became unwell and then unconscious and Captain landed in Zurich. Heard a small portion of the initial emergency but nothing afterwards of the approach and landing. A320Neo G-TTNM
BZ VAS!!! Happy New Year and a big, huge Minnesota THANK YOU for the work, time, effort, and graphics that you put together. Also, how did the controller know the pilot was overweight??? (Stop typing, I did not have a flameout, it is a joke)
There are 4 temp sensors on the brakes, and a single loop for fire detection in the main landing gear bay. If the brakes were to over heat, such as during a high speed abort or an over weight landing, the BRAKE OVERHEAT and/or MLG BAY OVER HEAT message can post which can later, if untreated, cause a fire. This particular instance was probably an erratic temp sensor indication.
Does it warrant returning back to the field? We had a similar warning during one of our flights. The pilot informed us he is going to fly at a low altitude with the gear extended. We went on our way after it was resolved.
If I remember correctly, there was this one time an airplane serving an African airline (Nigerian, I think) crashed due to the landing gear catching fire while retracted.
Non-pilot here. My first thought was that a high temp sensor reading could indicate possible or potential fire and that one would want to get that plane down ASAP, not taking any chances. Why treat it in such a leisurely manner? Would extending the landing gear early onduring the incident be considered enough to mitigate the danger?
My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that they expected contact with air at high speed would cool down the landing gear. In regards to my previous comment, it was Nigeria Airways 2120 in 1991, with the fire being caused by overheated tires All 261 on board were killed.
@Sal Yamanoor You are obligated to use the Irregular / Emergency / checklist provided by the airline to evaluate or correct the problem, DECIDING TO CONTINUE ON does not seem reasonable if close to the airport of departure. Wheel well fires or overheat can have many different origins and may not be related to the actual landing gear. There is a lot of equipment in the wheel well that can burn or overheat.
I always pronounced MRBIL as merbil (rhymes with gerbil) when planning flights out of Phoenix (I’m a dispatcher for Air Shuttle/Mesa, PHX is a hub). Mr. Bill makes so much more sense. 😂😂😂😂 one of these days I’m learn the real names/pronunciation of my commonly used waypoints/navaids.
That particular gear overheat was more than likely caused by an erroneous temperature sensor. Normally those happen after you land, not after you takeoff.
There are a number of theoretical faults that could cause it even on departure though. having to ride brakes a lot on taxi out, then a pad sticking, for example.
What else was there, I think I saw this planes lights, all the altitude and location info matches what I saw, it was not a path normally taken in normal conditions in the last 20 years since I became accustomed to the paths in the area.
@@evankeal yea I’m used to the normal flight path too but I don’t think I saw this plane. But I’m talking about on his channel. If you look at the past 2 weeks there was an incident and falcon field and Mesa gateway, and of course this incident here. but besides that all is good in the valley
@@charliethomson1002 I just found the KIWA incident, wow. There wasn't much to see with this incident, but if you were out at 11:30 that night, you would have seen a plane heading north over 35th Ave, East over Dunlap and then turning south over the indian reservation to join pattern for west landing at KPHX.
@@evankeal ahh yea I didn’t see that but let’s just hope nothing bad happens in the area haha. PHX ATC is so good tho I love them. Also have you seen the 747s that we’ve been getting landing into phx I’ve seen a couple of them it’s awesome
He was only flying from Phoenix to Durango, only had 65 souls on board and 8,600 lbs of fuel on board. Max fuel is 19,595 lb, and Max. landing weight is 67.000 lbs on a CRJ700. He was hardly over weight, and it's not like he had a jettison system. Probably would have been safer to just land on the first landing attempt - not knowing exactly what was the cause of an overheat warning. The controller should just do his job, and not make suggestions to a nervous pilot - especially if the controller does not know the specifics of that particular airplanes systems. I know he was just trying to be helpful - but he made the pilot second guess himself, and do an unnecessary go around.
Keep in mind the speed on the screen is groundspeed. The 250 knot restriction is based on Indicated speed which they could've well been doing with that groundspeed
Very strange how the crew seemed ready to land until ATC queried their weight. I would have expected them to have checked it while they were preparing to come back in.
People forget that the Phoenix Metropolitan Area (Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale, Tempe, Glendale, etc.) is the fifth largest Metro area in the US. That's a lot of people requiring a lot of air service. I live about 20 minutes west of KPHX and a bit north of final for 7L, 7R, 8 runway approach. Some excellent plane spotting between Sky Harbor, Glendale, and the "Toilet Bowl Stadium". (Cards stadium looks like a stainless steel commode.)
Asked for fuel in minutes. Answered with fuel in pounds. Here’s the deal: Atc is not trying to see how big the fire will be. They want to know how long you can stay in the air. Always answer the fuel question in duration. ATC reminding you that you are over weight is just embarrassing. However the decision to hold is incorrect as well. Overweight landing is always the right answer if you are potentially on fire and that is what this is.
the answer is minutes at 5000ft or 20000ft? the crew doesnt know the number in minutes without doing extra work when they are already busy with extra work. they have lbs from the w+b so thats what your getting
Odd question. I understand that this audio is recorded by a separate system. Is the audio quality this bad at the airport, too? So much noise and modulation artifacting, no fault-tolerance. Seems like an awfully weak link in a complex system.
I know it's busy dealing with an emergency but jeez, those controllers had to work hard to get information from that guy. Also the lack of weight awareness was super cringe.
I saw this plane, made his last East turn over me and I could still make out his lights 20 or so miles away when he made the turn south. I knew this plane was not following any typical pattern at all, but just assumed it was a heightened altitude law enforcement surveillance thing for the holiday or something.
I am not a pilot. I am however, an Amateur Radio Operator. I am surprised that U.S. pilots don't seem to ever cal PAN or MAYDAY. If I ever hear those calls on the ham bands, I absolutely pay attention, and there is no confusion what is happening on the radio.
It can depend on the situation. It seemed like the plane was still airworthy and having the plane return to Phoenix and rolling out the fire crew instead of limping to Durango. With everything we were given, I don't know if this would have warranted either a mayday or a pan-pan call. (Maybe a pan-pan as a heads up, but probably not a Mayday.) Also, these pilots are working off checklists and the check list might not have stated they should call it in as a Mayday or Pan-Pan. Plus, most aircraft (including all commercial and military aircraft) have transponder systems that send information back to the radar system when pinged. Pilots can set their transponder code (called "squawking") to one of three emergency numbers. In this case, the pilots could have set their transponder code to "7700" for general aircraft distress. This flags the aircraft on the ATC's screen. On top of that, ATCs can always flag an aircraft as being in an emergency state to give them priority, even if the pilots believe the issue they're experiencing doesn't warrant calling in as an emergency. I suspect in this case that there was only one sensor reporting an issue and the checklist probably treated it as a sensor fault. It sounded like the procedure was to land at the closest available airport when safe to do so. I could see in this scenario that a pilot would just ask for vectors and landing clearance for a mechanical issue without treating it as an emergency, and then the ATC flags the flight as being in an emergency to give priority to be safe.
Great catch. I wonder why ATC always asks for the fuel remaining in minutes and pilots usually respond in pounds. If ATC knows this, why don’t they just get used to it and get acquainted with the pounds instead?
Because ATC wants to know an estimate on how long they can continue to fly before they are emergency fuel. Every engine burns fuel at a different rate.
Might be debris stuck or bearings gone to hell and it got overheated during take off.... And judging by how sloppy both pilots were on overweight issue would it be a surprise to learn they didn't notice the overheat indication for 10 minutes?
It was most likely the gear bay overheat message. There is a fire loop in the roof of the gear well, if you have hot brakes and retract the gear, it can set off the overheat detection.
@@spacejaga 10 minutes? I didn't realize the 700 only had a 800 ft/min rate of climb. Or was it that the crew noticed it, ran memory items/QRH before calling ATC?
The landing gear would have already been down and locked, most likely, upon the initial ATB call. This is an emergency memory item from what I remember on all CRJ's. If the gear is already down and you still have a hot brake situation you must assume the worst and treat the situation as a gear fire. Flying around burning a few thousand pounds to land below MLW is not advisable in this situation. Landing with hot a hot brake'(s) is not near as dangerous as flying around Phoenix with a gear on fire just so you can land under MLW. The gear bay has all kinds of critical equipment that don't react well to fire.
Could also depend on how long they were on the ground. If they did a hot turnaround, i.e. Unload, refuel, reload and depart with no wait time, there may not have been enough time for the brakes to cool down from landing.
@@Matt-pd2cq There's about 3 seconds from rotation until the gear retraction. It's not a lot of time, but plenty enough for normal operations. Most likely a faulty sensor or hot day and brakes that were used frequently on taxi out to the runway.
@@user-ez5vq9fd2t Right now, we're only in the 60's F here during the day, with high 40s at night. Another possibility is that they did a hot turnaround and departed before the brakes had time to cool completely from landing.
flippynl take off with the brake temps in the amber then they will 100% overheat in the wheel wells especially in hot temperatures in Phoenix. They can also catch fire in there.
Pick up the new notice of local weather conditions, air pressure, etc. They're all given a sequential letter, rather than being numbered - Romeo is phonetic alphabet for the letter R.
Airports use a broadcast system called ATIS to alert pilots of local weather conditions. The recordings are changed either on the hour or half hour (don't remember which). At the end of each message is a letter for the pilots to give to ATC letting the ACT know the pilots heard the message. They must have been around that time change when they reported "having Quebec" (Q), but the message was on Romeo (R). (Oops!)
@@iflyg4 so you’d rather fly around for another 10 minutes whilst your landing gear is on fire instead of just landing and evacuating whilst the fire crew put the fire out?
@@Jacob-io7ct I used to work as a fueler for American at Sky Harbor. I always got a laugh when I was sent to fuel flight 420. I always joked about "Using the special fuel", and "I went a little high on the fuel load".
Because the controllers know what they're doing and they're not going to just ignore something if they think it might be a problem. Obviously he knew it was an issue. He would be a pretty shitty controller if he just ignored something he knew was going to be an issue.
They're probably still under 250 kts indicated. I think VAS makes the maps with ADS-B data, which uses ground speed. But ground speed doesn't really matter; if everyone's doing 250 KIAS on departure, they'll still maintain separation.
The QRH calls for putting the gear down to try to cool it off. If that works you could just continue the flight. Who knows what happened. Interesting decision to be made in burning fuel for the landing. There's not really a right or wrong answer to that decision, although I would lean on just landing. Landing overweight is a non-issue, and it's going into maintenance for the gear anyway. One thing's for sure, ATC wouldn't be deciding for me LOL
Mr. Bill sounds like a nice guy
If I were a pilot cleared "direct MRBIL", I don't think I could resist responding in falsetto at least once.
@@wlhamaty Oh NOOOOOOOOO!
m.ruclips.net/video/rc_iz8myKic/видео.html He's a great guy! 😛
@@jcl410 Mr. SluggO!
American 420 seems to have a mellow attitude.
Things that make you go hmmm
This has to be on purpose, but AAL420 on that day was an A321 with service to DENVER.
@@Jacob-io7ct It is. The person who assigns flight numbers has a sense of humor. When San Francisco legalized marijuana, flight 420 from Phoenix was briefly assigned to the PHX to SFO flight. For a while, flight 777 went from PHX to LAS (Las Vegas)
@@murphsmodels8853 that’s amazing. I love it.
@@Jacob-io7ct gotta love good ol AAL 😂
Seems like whether you're a student solo GA or Part 135, PHX ATC's motto is "I won't let anything happen to you,"
Love how the ATC truly assisted the very busy and stressed flight deck crew with their crisis management. Nicely done.
ATC: are you overweight?
Pilots: oh yeah, now that you say it , we want to go on a diat real short, we will be back in a minute
that was a major cringe :/
Total cringe because basically the ATC was the PIC for a second. If that happened to me I would have to land overweight just to avoid the embarassment haha
Big oof
There is no overweight landing limitation that is a high risk / priority for most circumstances in CRJ (Obviously we still avoid it under normal conditions).
- If you will land overweight there is a procedure (literally land softly) and it is usually just a call to MX and computer report/sign off.
- In this situation on PHX huge runways it should play no factor really.
MLG Overheat Procedure when temp doesn’t go down is to “land at nearest suitable airport”... so there is some urgency but since plane doesn’t seem to be on fire, doing 1 more lap to burn some fuel and go over plan 1 more time seems like a fine decision, but landing overweight should also be a perfectly reasonable option here.
A lot is happening during a return to field, so not noticing or not discussing being overweight (something that has almost no effect on safety of flight in this case) is really a very minor issue.
@@Sports-Jorge yes. Going around may have been an unnecessary, but good decision. The funny thing is though is the pilots had to be reminded of that detail.
Kudos to the Controller who was the final checklist - "Are you overweight?"
That's not really true!!!
I really like Phoenix ATC voice and inflection and intonation. Perfect.
Oh noooo! Mr. Bill!
I would've thought Sluggo would be the more dangerous point to approach
The Phoenix controllers have great radio voices! I could listen to them all day long.
I agree. Crystal clear for anyone to understand. I was impressed!
Agreed. Shame one of the subject aircraft pilots is a worse mumbler than anyone I've ever heard on this channel, but not the end of the world.
Didn't know he was over weight till controller asked the controller should be flying
Yeah that was a little concerning.
What could happen from overheat? Fire? If so, shouldn’t they just land asap even if overweight?
@@andriworld the point is seems like the pilot didn’t notice they were overweight until the controller ask. If they already analyzed the situation properly, they would tell the controller right away that they gonna land overweight.
@@andriworld Yes, and maybe. CRJs have somewhat of a history of gear overheat sensor malfunctions. Manuals still require the crew to land nearest suitable in the event, but if they are reasonably sure it is the sensor just gone bad and nothing worse doesnt hurt to mitigate the weight. Particularly if the gear has already been lowered, which seems likely in this case. Lowering the gear would likely extinguish a fire if there was one.
Pilots always know if they are overweight. They do this stuff all the time in training and on EVERY NORMAL LANDING DONE. To calculate the approach flap speeds and landing speeds you need to use an AIRCRAFT WEIGHT CARD. Landing overweight conformation, gives the Emergency vehicles an idea where to locate the EMERGENCY vehicles, and estimate where the aircraft will stop.
Really smart controller.
Mhh, not a great performance of the cockpit crew:
- No declaration of emergency until the end
- No plan what to do when reporting the issue, nor later
- Thinking about the landing first time when base turning
- Most valueable inputs are made from ATC
They should have had enough fuel to declare the emergency, let ATC vector them around till everythings is sorted out and stay ahead of the aircarft.
But excellent job from ATC.
Happy new year all. I am seroiusly considering not viewing any more of these videos [ no offence ] I think a lot of you guys on this site are seriously saying what you think others want to hear. EVERY THING YOU SAID HERE IS WRONG yet 30 [ thumbs up ] approvals. These pilots are not as experienced as pilots on the larger JET airplane [ I previously flew commuter flights ] so you may see some minor mistakes. From the moment the pilot requested to return to the airport, and asked for emergency equipment, this WAS an emergency. The controller asking the souls onboard and fuel remaining, meant everyone was "onboard" that it was an emergency. No plan what to do when reporting the issue????, where are you getting that from ?. they requested return to the airport and the STANDBY replies were a sign of performing checklist and sometimes copilot [ on the radio ] consulting with the Captain before answering. Thinking about the landing first time when on base???, the controller wanted the crew to know he was not rushing them into landing, so they can have more time burning fuel before accepting landing sequence. [ It is legal to land overweight during an emergency ] Most valuable inputs are made from ATC ???, While the ATC responce was excelent, the Crew worked thier ASS OFF to get the aircraft processed through the emergency, for a return and landing. The crew completed several checklist and were effctive during the emergency. I respect freedom of speach but you are not in a learning mode if you are just FARTING OUT opinions that you think will go over well. Seek to learn about the field of aviation, pick up a book and study, especially requlations, Strive to be effective when in the cockpit if you fly, and spend less time on the internet. It will seriously improve the kind of comments that you contribute. I wish everyone well.
For their defense they landed safely which is great
@@RUclips.TOM.A You are wasting your breath. While there are a handful of folks who ask reasonable questions trying to learn something, far too many Flight Sim jockeys and grizzled old cAPTs have the cause already wrapped up before the NTSB GO Teams even get a call.
Good thing the controller mentioned weight. The wouldve landed overweight!
i know its actually shocking to hear that it wasnt taken into consideration
@@danparisi97 wouldve been an even bigger gear issue!
@@danparisi97 my thoughts exactly. That's kind of part of an emergency landing plan right after takeoff.
@@16MedicRN as with all training, more so I know 100% with my company. That would be part of the departure brief. Would talk about it when discussing single engine out if there was terrain avoidance and things like that. If they had no plan for that and did suffer an engine out in departure I would have no doubt that this could have been a very different story
That was my first thought as well. Unnecessarily landing overweight, especially without realising it, when you already have a possible gear problem would not be smart.
Is it me or is the pilot monitoring sounds a bit a sleep?
Your not alone, guy sounds high.
It came to my mind that maybe he was the first officer dealing with an idiot captain that made him ask dumb questions on the radio and hated the situation...
That ATC has the quintessential ATC Voice. If you think what an ATC sounds like its him lol.
Got a bit of a Rod Serling thing going on. I could listen to him all day.
Skipper trained for this as a kid, playing with Hot Wheels.
I wish I could listen to ATC comms before hopping on a commercial flight with a certain fight crew. I’d skip these guys.
I'm going to assume that one of the pilots got a bit of coaching about mumbling over the radio after this was all over. I mumble at times too, but communicating clearly over radio isn't a key part of my job.
Bruh how do you not know your own plane weight? we submit those numbers 10 minutes before a flight on the ground.
And the fact that he had to be prompted by ATC!?
For simplicity, Airplane weight is always ZERO FUEL WEIGHT plus FUEL WEIGHT. That information is on the performance page for glass cockpit aircraft and is easily available. Airline Pilots are quite aware of being overweight when you [ stop short and ] do not fly to your destination, There are checklist needed to be run, briefing of cabin attendants, briefing of passengers, setting up landing procedures in the computer and navigation radios. The controllers were trying to help, In order to compute landing speeds you will obtain the weight of the aircraft, first.
@@RUclips.TOM.A The point is they didn’t realise until ATC queried it and were preparing to land before that prompt.
What if the gear is really on fire and you waste time in the air calculating landing weight and briefing the pax. What happens in these moments isn’t as obvious as you might think sitting comfortably in a climate controlled room with zero stress. Also, landing overweight is non issue. Mx will look at the parameters.
What if they all died because the gear was actually on fire and it actually became a huge issue while they’re flying around. They dealt with that first by getting back close to the field. Then yeah, sure, let’s take a look at the landing weight.
It's skywest, their planes are bad, everyone hates skywest but skywest, their planes have tons of problems too. My ex bf works there and has told me more than once the landing gear hasn't dropped and he's only been flying about three years (I'm a flight attendant)
Mr. Bill..............."Oh N'oooooooooo" !
No freaking way. Saw the title and thought "hey maybe it's the Skywest that flies into Durango." Sure as shit, it was. I live 10 minutes from Durango lol. For some reason, this made my day🤣
My fave ATC guy from Phoenix! 😊
September 1963: Swissair Flight 306 crashed in Durrenasch, shortly after take-off in Zurich. Overheated brakes caused an in-flight fire. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306. Like we have seen with the Concorde crash, fire can destroy the plane very quickly. So if I were the Skywest crew, I would prefer to land asap, instead of making another turn that will make only a small difference for the overweight landing.
American 420 was a flight to Denver that day. Whoever is assigning flight numbers has a sense of humor.
"Mr. Bill" - some of these intersection names are hilarious!
Ok Juan... @blancolerio. Let us hear your thoughts on this one.
I hope Skywest uses this as a training tool.
Such consummate professionals on ATC.
The pilot monitoring with the foreign accent who was doing most of the talking sounds a bit clueless and not very confidence-inspiring. The fact that they didn’t consider landing weight is extremely surprising.
Gear overheat on takeoff? And it doesn't show up until they've already been climbing for a while? Sounds like faulty instrumentation.
Could be on fire and only hot enough in air
While a faulty sensor is probably the most likely possibility, it's not the only possibility. The FAA (and many other civilian aviation authorities) position is it's better to play it safe. It's better to land as soon as safely possible and inconvenience the passengers than to gamble and have the flight crew be wrong in their assessments.
Do you have any ATC of BA640 on 26th December? FO became unwell and then unconscious and Captain landed in Zurich. Heard a small portion of the initial emergency but nothing afterwards of the approach and landing. A320Neo G-TTNM
Working on it
Somehow BA gets into this situation more often than all other airlines combined? Or is it just me?
@@spacejaga I have never heard that happen recently. Think it’s just you. They’ve had fume events but this wasn’t one of them
@@spacejaga Their pilots seem to get “gastro” more often.
BZ VAS!!! Happy New Year and a big, huge Minnesota THANK YOU for the work, time, effort, and graphics that you put together.
Also, how did the controller know the pilot was overweight???
(Stop typing, I did not have a flameout, it is a joke)
Thank you, VasA. On point as usual. Good communication all the way through. Easy to tell how busy those pilots were.
Controller is trying to sound like the godfather.
4:26 The controller specified *in minutes*
7:32 Holy shit a crosswind!!!!
For those who are flying or have flown the 700, what are the Landing Gear Overheat message implications? Is it hot hydraulics?
There are 4 temp sensors on the brakes, and a single loop for fire detection in the main landing gear bay. If the brakes were to over heat, such as during a high speed abort or an over weight landing, the BRAKE OVERHEAT and/or MLG BAY OVER HEAT message can post which can later, if untreated, cause a fire. This particular instance was probably an erratic temp sensor indication.
Does it warrant returning back to the field? We had a similar warning during one of our flights. The pilot informed us he is going to fly at a low altitude with the gear extended. We went on our way after it was resolved.
If I remember correctly, there was this one time an airplane serving an African airline (Nigerian, I think) crashed due to the landing gear catching fire while retracted.
Non-pilot here. My first thought was that a high temp sensor reading could indicate possible or potential fire and that one would want to get that plane down ASAP, not taking any chances. Why treat it in such a leisurely manner? Would extending the landing gear early onduring the incident be considered enough to mitigate the danger?
My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that they expected contact with air at high speed would cool down the landing gear.
In regards to my previous comment, it was Nigeria Airways 2120 in 1991, with the fire being caused by overheated tires All 261 on board were killed.
@Sal Yamanoor You are obligated to use the Irregular / Emergency / checklist provided by the airline to evaluate or correct the problem, DECIDING TO CONTINUE ON does not seem reasonable if close to the airport of departure. Wheel well fires or overheat can have many different origins and may not be related to the actual landing gear. There is a lot of equipment in the wheel well that can burn or overheat.
I always pronounced MRBIL as merbil (rhymes with gerbil) when planning flights out of Phoenix (I’m a dispatcher for Air Shuttle/Mesa, PHX is a hub). Mr. Bill makes so much more sense. 😂😂😂😂 one of these days I’m learn the real names/pronunciation of my commonly used waypoints/navaids.
That particular gear overheat was more than likely caused by an erroneous temperature sensor. Normally those happen after you land, not after you takeoff.
@ A Google user No use speculating. We all know how smart you are, but until we see the official report there is absolutely no value in speculation.
There are a number of theoretical faults that could cause it even on departure though. having to ride brakes a lot on taxi out, then a pad sticking, for example.
Well he *is* literally "A Google user" so he knows everything from that comfy couch....
You could be right but there are a bunch of reason why this could've happened.
@@mikek5298 Wow, why attack the guy out of the blue like that? There's nothing wrong with speculation as long as it is regarded as such.
A lot has been happening in the Phoenix area lately haha. Let’s hope that changes
What else was there, I think I saw this planes lights, all the altitude and location info matches what I saw, it was not a path normally taken in normal conditions in the last 20 years since I became accustomed to the paths in the area.
@@evankeal yea I’m used to the normal flight path too but I don’t think I saw this plane. But I’m talking about on his channel. If you look at the past 2 weeks there was an incident and falcon field and Mesa gateway, and of course this incident here. but besides that all is good in the valley
@@charliethomson1002 I just found the KIWA incident, wow. There wasn't much to see with this incident, but if you were out at 11:30 that night, you would have seen a plane heading north over 35th Ave, East over Dunlap and then turning south over the indian reservation to join pattern for west landing at KPHX.
I meant west-'bound' landing
@@evankeal ahh yea I didn’t see that but let’s just hope nothing bad happens in the area haha. PHX ATC is so good tho I love them. Also have you seen the 747s that we’ve been getting landing into phx I’ve seen a couple of them it’s awesome
He was only flying from Phoenix to Durango, only had 65 souls on board and 8,600 lbs of fuel on board. Max fuel is 19,595 lb, and Max. landing weight is 67.000 lbs on a CRJ700. He was hardly over weight, and it's not like he had a jettison system. Probably would have been safer to just land on the first landing attempt - not knowing exactly what was the cause of an overheat warning. The controller should just do his job, and not make suggestions to a nervous pilot - especially if the controller does not know the specifics of that particular airplanes systems. I know he was just trying to be helpful - but he made the pilot second guess himself, and do an unnecessary go around.
so why would it take that long for a gear overheat to pop up on EICAS ? that does seem a bit odd that it took soo long to show up.
AA420 never even slowed down after getting caught speeding then continued accelerating to 280 before being released from the restriction.
Keep in mind the speed on the screen is groundspeed. The 250 knot restriction is based on Indicated speed which they could've well been doing with that groundspeed
Very strange how the crew seemed ready to land until ATC queried their weight. I would have expected them to have checked it while they were preparing to come back in.
Are Southwest pilots selected because they will not speak or enunciate into the mic? Or do I keep hearing the same pilot in different situations?
The one pilot sounded very fatigued.
That’s 3 videos from Phoenix/Mesa in the past couple weeks
Super busy air space. It’s pretty amazing to watch from the comfort of my couch lol
@@pameladee Agreed. All the flight training in the area makes things really interesting
@@colonelcactus2462 oh for sure! I’m over by Falcon Field, the traffic over here is bizarre.
@@pameladee Me too. I fly out of Falcon frequently.
People forget that the Phoenix Metropolitan Area (Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale, Tempe, Glendale, etc.) is the fifth largest Metro area in the US. That's a lot of people requiring a lot of air service.
I live about 20 minutes west of KPHX and a bit north of final for 7L, 7R, 8 runway approach. Some excellent plane spotting between Sky Harbor, Glendale, and the "Toilet Bowl Stadium". (Cards stadium looks like a stainless steel commode.)
very good audio quality on this one!
What happened to the plane after the incident?
Rode the brake all thew way to the runway?
Asked for fuel in minutes. Answered with fuel in pounds. Here’s the deal: Atc is not trying to see how big the fire will be. They want to know how long you can stay in the air. Always answer the fuel question in duration.
ATC reminding you that you are over weight is just embarrassing. However the decision to hold is incorrect as well. Overweight landing is always the right answer if you are potentially on fire and that is what this is.
Ya totally agree. You can land overweight in the CRJ. Just needs to be inspected upon landing. I think 121 paranoia takes over.
the answer is minutes at 5000ft or 20000ft? the crew doesnt know the number in minutes without doing extra work when they are already busy with extra work. they have lbs from the w+b so thats what your getting
Odd question. I understand that this audio is recorded by a separate system. Is the audio quality this bad at the airport, too? So much noise and modulation artifacting, no fault-tolerance. Seems like an awfully weak link in a complex system.
I know it's busy dealing with an emergency but jeez, those controllers had to work hard to get information from that guy. Also the lack of weight awareness was super cringe.
I saw this plane, made his last East turn over me and I could still make out his lights 20 or so miles away when he made the turn south. I knew this plane was not following any typical pattern at all, but just assumed it was a heightened altitude law enforcement surveillance thing for the holiday or something.
Checklist item #1 - turn off brake heat
Gumby, Pokey and Mr. Bill. We used to make clothes for our little figures in middle school. I had Gumby and Pokey but never Mr. Bill. 😁
Probably only middle-aged Americans remember them... m.ruclips.net/video/rc_iz8myKic/видео.html
I am not a pilot. I am however, an Amateur Radio Operator. I am surprised that U.S. pilots don't seem to ever cal PAN or MAYDAY. If I ever hear those calls on the ham bands, I absolutely pay attention, and there is no confusion what is happening on the radio.
It can depend on the situation. It seemed like the plane was still airworthy and having the plane return to Phoenix and rolling out the fire crew instead of limping to Durango. With everything we were given, I don't know if this would have warranted either a mayday or a pan-pan call. (Maybe a pan-pan as a heads up, but probably not a Mayday.) Also, these pilots are working off checklists and the check list might not have stated they should call it in as a Mayday or Pan-Pan.
Plus, most aircraft (including all commercial and military aircraft) have transponder systems that send information back to the radar system when pinged. Pilots can set their transponder code (called "squawking") to one of three emergency numbers. In this case, the pilots could have set their transponder code to "7700" for general aircraft distress. This flags the aircraft on the ATC's screen. On top of that, ATCs can always flag an aircraft as being in an emergency state to give them priority, even if the pilots believe the issue they're experiencing doesn't warrant calling in as an emergency.
I suspect in this case that there was only one sensor reporting an issue and the checklist probably treated it as a sensor fault. It sounded like the procedure was to land at the closest available airport when safe to do so. I could see in this scenario that a pilot would just ask for vectors and landing clearance for a mechanical issue without treating it as an emergency, and then the ATC flags the flight as being in an emergency to give priority to be safe.
Great catch. I wonder why ATC always asks for the fuel remaining in minutes and pilots usually respond in pounds. If ATC knows this, why don’t they just get used to it and get acquainted with the pounds instead?
Because ATC wants to know an estimate on how long they can continue to fly before they are emergency fuel. Every engine burns fuel at a different rate.
Seems like somebody forgot how the checklists are done....
Happy new year
I am in the business for 2 decades, but I never heard of a landing gear overheat after take off. Must be an errorneaus sensor.
Might be debris stuck or bearings gone to hell and it got overheated during take off.... And judging by how sloppy both pilots were on overweight issue would it be a surprise to learn they didn't notice the overheat indication for 10 minutes?
It was most likely the gear bay overheat message. There is a fire loop in the roof of the gear well, if you have hot brakes and retract the gear, it can set off the overheat detection.
@@ashleymessenger4758 That was my first thought...that it had something to do with hot brakes.
@@joeg5414 How would you end up with a hot brake right after takeoff, other than by...
@@spacejaga 10 minutes? I didn't realize the 700 only had a 800 ft/min rate of climb.
Or was it that the crew noticed it, ran memory items/QRH before calling ATC?
Hear over heat? Like a hot brake?
26 Ieft? right?
There are three runways at PHX: 25L, 25R, and 26.
@@Tevildo .Thank you.
Happy new year! And as always great video.
The landing gear would have already been down and locked, most likely, upon the initial ATB call. This is an emergency memory item from what I remember on all CRJ's. If the gear is already down and you still have a hot brake situation you must assume the worst and treat the situation as a gear fire. Flying around burning a few thousand pounds to land below MLW is not advisable in this situation. Landing with hot a hot brake'(s) is not near as dangerous as flying around Phoenix with a gear on fire just so you can land under MLW. The gear bay has all kinds of critical equipment that don't react well to fire.
I don't think gear overheat is a memory item.
@@Shadow__133 Maybe Bombardier has changed their philosophy on this. I am pretty sure it used to be. Anyway, thanks for the update
Anyone know how a brake overheat would occur on takeoff? Is it like a stuck brake caliper or something?
broken sensor or maybe a broken ball bearing
Either that or had to do a lot of braking before takeoff
Could also depend on how long they were on the ground. If they did a hot turnaround, i.e. Unload, refuel, reload and depart with no wait time, there may not have been enough time for the brakes to cool down from landing.
There are brake temp sensor indications, the crew would not take off with the temps out of green. Most likely erratic temp sensor.
So what happened? Did he forget the gears up of the positive rate gears up part...and overspead the gear's up?
Doubt they’d forget to raise gear. More likely hot brakes before takeoff and putting them in an enclosed space won’t help cool them
@@tomstravels520 I'm surprised the airflow during the climb didn't cool them down, that makes me think even more that it's a bad sensor
@@Matt-pd2cq There's about 3 seconds from rotation until the gear retraction. It's not a lot of time, but plenty enough for normal operations. Most likely a faulty sensor or hot day and brakes that were used frequently on taxi out to the runway.
@@user-ez5vq9fd2t Right now, we're only in the 60's F here during the day, with high 40s at night. Another possibility is that they did a hot turnaround and departed before the brakes had time to cool completely from landing.
how can you overheat the gear in flight?
flippynl take off with the brake temps in the amber then they will 100% overheat in the wheel wells especially in hot temperatures in Phoenix. They can also catch fire in there.
@@prorobo how do you heat up the brakes turing taxi and takeoff then?
flippynl by riding them during taxi or dispatching quickly after the last landing used a high brake effort.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld Or after deicing, if they run the engines while breaking. These brakes take a long time to cool off like others pointed out.
pick up romeo, what does that mean?
Pick up the new notice of local weather conditions, air pressure, etc. They're all given a sequential letter, rather than being numbered - Romeo is phonetic alphabet for the letter R.
New ATIS information
ATC was letting Benvollio know Juliet was waiting, and Romeo needed a ride.
Airports use a broadcast system called ATIS to alert pilots of local weather conditions. The recordings are changed either on the hour or half hour (don't remember which). At the end of each message is a letter for the pilots to give to ATC letting the ACT know the pilots heard the message. They must have been around that time change when they reported "having Quebec" (Q), but the message was on Romeo (R). (Oops!)
I read Durango as “Django” (Unchained). 😂
These Skywest pilots do not inspire confidence. The tower did all the heavy lifting it seems.
Wonder why they didn’t do a tower flyby? Could have flames coming from their gear.
Because then they’d have to circle and land. May as well just land
@@tomstravels520 I disagree. Ask VASA.
@@iflyg4 so you’d rather fly around for another 10 minutes whilst your landing gear is on fire instead of just landing and evacuating whilst the fire crew put the fire out?
@@tomstravels520 but tower people are certified to help me
@@iflyg4 but they can’t put a fire out if you’re flying over the runway at 200ft with flames coming out of your gear
heh
420
American 420 was a flight from Phoenix to Denver that day. Not even kidding.
@@Jacob-io7ct I used to work as a fueler for American at Sky Harbor. I always got a laugh when I was sent to fuel flight 420. I always joked about "Using the special fuel", and "I went a little high on the fuel load".
@@Jacob-io7ct It's not just a coincidence lol
Why are controllers worrying about landing weight? That’s PIC stuff.
It should be, but why didn’t the PIC worry about it until the controller prompted him?
Because the controllers know what they're doing and they're not going to just ignore something if they think it might be a problem. Obviously he knew it was an issue. He would be a pretty shitty controller if he just ignored something he knew was going to be an issue.
So Nice 💘💘💘💘💘💘
This is a *yawn* event.
lol @ AAL420 showing 260 Kts at 4200, someone was not paying attention to power settings
They're probably still under 250 kts indicated. I think VAS makes the maps with ADS-B data, which uses ground speed. But ground speed doesn't really matter; if everyone's doing 250 KIAS on departure, they'll still maintain separation.
CA sounded in over his head. Thought it was SkyBest?
I'm a flight attendant at a regional airline (not skywest) and everyone calls them skypest and skyworst
@@katesmith8897 So much envy and anger. Perhaps you should have studied harder 🤷♂️
4th
Skywest is more like skypiss tbh. Just saying. I’ve worked ramp for Skywest operated flights before.
First :)
Wouldve been funny if it happened to aal420...”american 420 our landing gear is hot, I repeat 420 landing gear is blazin”
The QRH calls for putting the gear down to try to cool it off. If that works you could just continue the flight. Who knows what happened.
Interesting decision to be made in burning fuel for the landing. There's not really a right or wrong answer to that decision, although I would lean on just landing. Landing overweight is a non-issue, and it's going into maintenance for the gear anyway. One thing's for sure, ATC wouldn't be deciding for me LOL