I'm a photographer with a degree. And while you can definitely become a professional photographer without one, I can't stand when people write off the idea of going to school for photography. The amount of structure, connections, and quick learning that happened was the best thing for me. If you don't want to go to school for it, don't. It's silly to write off people who do.
I came into photography as a bio major, chemistry and Psychology minor. I also played in a local band for a few years. I only got into it to be able to photograph wildlife. As I got better with wildlife, I was offered a job doing live sports, which then blossomed into doing studio portraits. I also like to shoot concerts/festivals/events for fun. The more I do it, the better I become. But originally the passion came from experience in other fields of study outside of photography and then bringing in that expertise to it. I think it gives me a different perspective than a lot of other people who just went to school for it and struggle to find subjects to photograph or specific areas within photography to specialize a year or two in.
I am 58. I went to a two-year college in my 20's, I couldn't afford University. It did teach me how to study, learn, and how to think properly. I still love learning new things, and while I'm working hard to improve my Photography skills, I am also involved in other endeavors since I just like to take all of life and its curiosities. I don't need to make money from photography but I love the challenge and it is satisfying to succeed.
21 years old here. 3 years into my photography business. Things are picking up and starting to shoot small campaigns. Not going to school is tough, you definitely have to be mentally strong ect ect. I think it’s “easier” to fall through the cracks of society without an education. For me now, I have no regrets it’s working out well
As someone who left school with nothing and now at the ripe age of 32 I am in a well paid job, own a house, married etc - I disagree about having to go to University to get those life lessons. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do until I was 27...then studied (certifications etc) to get into that industry. Hard work is key, learning from your mistakes and improving yourself is what I believe in. I think the message behind what you're saying is stronger. You need to fail, learn from it and then go again. I think forcing people into a box of "you must go to University to be successful" sets people up to fail at something, that costs a crap ton of money, or be miserable. Either way, it's your opinion and there are lots of others who went down your route and done well, so its not wrong. Thanks agian for talking about an interesting topic.
I have a few years on you and totally agree. I feel he is mixing up life experience with attending Uni and getting "degrees". You can still be a tw@t, not go to Uni, enter the real world and end up growing and be successful in a business. As long as your are willing to listen and learn. That's the key to growth. In my line of work some of the dumbest people I have met are graduates.
No offense, but shitty advice, just because it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for everyone else. LeBron went to the NBA right out of high school. So some people can say "WELLLL he didn't go to college for basketball so I won't either" and never make it in the industry. Take your bias advice and don't give it to the general public and stop trying to flex.
@@Kanoog no flexing but definitely proud of myself... I don't think it's bias, I'm just making a point that you shouldn't need to pigeon hole yourself into "a degree is the only way you can really make it". Also why so angry man? I haven't said anything offensive or forced my opinion on anyone.
I went to college at 18 for 3 reasons - sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams and had to leave after my first year. Even with tens of thousands in loans for that year I have no regrets. It helped me figure out what I wanted to do and I returned to college a few years later for a BFA (photography) and BA (history). One of the biggest things I learned in college was how to communicate. Working in any visual art requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do. While it was torture for me to write papers about post modern concepts it proved really helpful when working with art directors (most of whom have had the same experience). I also learned to disagree with people without thinking they were idiots, or even necessarily wrong. A lot about visual art is opinion, and having the experience of seeing people with wildly different views and attitudes from mine make some great work was incredibly valuable.
"working in any visual arts requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do" I relate to these words and thank you for just putting this comment up. I am doing my first year on Applied Arts in commercial photography and I am doing great with my marks but when it comes to what I quoted from you that is my weakness but I'm trying I will better get as long as I am trying because I love what I am doing.
53 year old starting a BA Photography degree in a few days time. Totally agree with everything in your video/s, but having breached the 40+ age barrier, I have to say that I had an itch that needed scratching. Never went to uni and always wanted to. The idea of challenging myself and reaching my full potential both creatively and commercially is a real motivator. But ultimately it is to be able to see more clearly, digest idea and formulate better outcomes. One is never too young to learn, explore and develop ideas and skills. So I say to anyone of any age watching this that has a similar itch, go do it. Go study and develop the skills you know deep down need improving. Great vid as always Scott.
I’m a professor. Yes, higher education teaches you a lot of life lessons. However, you don’t need a degree to be a good photographer but what will help is life experience… of any kind. University can be a negative experience for many whose creative passion is sidelined in the pursuit of academic credentials. Many also take a blow to their confidence if they are not succeeding in their academic field. My advice if you want to be a photographer, take a photography class and get some life experience traveling, working, learning about the world in which ever way you can.
“That’s not okay, but that’s life” probably one of the most important lessons a young person can learn. My daughter is 18 and starting her path and I’m going to show her this video. I think social media (especially RUclips) puts an immense amount of pressure on young people to be successful at a very young age. I studied photography, cinematography and Production Design and then worked in tourism for 14 years. Only started MY photography career in 2021 at age 38. However what you say is completely true. Had I started straight out of school I would have failed dismally. The experience of learning all the other things that has nothing to do with a camera or a light are invaluable to me now. I can offer clients a true understanding of their problem and I have years of compounded broad experience to solve it. Thanks Scott for another great lesson in life.
Absolutely agree with you, Scott. University is THE place where you learn how to learn fast for the rest of your life. I am a40 years old french photographer. Started my career in 2017 after working 9 years as a Pharmacist. I spent 6 years in university. Every time I think about it, I know it was 100% useful in my actual everyday job. It helps for : organize job, behave with clients, network with other professionals, learn new skills, be able to talk with client and prospect at a high level of comprehension of their own professional domain. Thanks for sharing your knowledge !
I joined the US Armed Forces for the 1st 24 years of adulthood and picked up photography as a hobby along the way. I lived overseas for 30 + years and the experience was amazing, it's not for everyone. Studied communications while I served, didn't finish but I'm doing all right in life.
I have a 4 yr business degree and self taught photography 10 years after I graduated. 4 months after picking up a camera I received honorable mentions in professional categories at the International Photography Awards. A lot of what you said about learning how to learn has been true for me. As you’ve mentioned in past videos, understanding the business and how to make money is a vital part of being a professional photographer and I can confirm that having an entire business degree has been incredibly helpful. It seems like you don’t have to be the best photographer but you have to have a certain level of quality and know how to market yourself at that price point to really be successful. I still have a lot of work to do but I’m in a decent place after being at it for only a year. I feel like your videos provide confirmation that principles I’ve learned apply to the photography field and help give a bit of guidance to someone who’s trying to do it on their own. Landscape/wildlife photographer.
I've always been an entrepreneur. I was raised that way. College when I was younger was not really an option due to the costs and my unique situation. (too long of a story) I started my photography journey when my wife handed me a camera one day. I never thought it was the direction my life would take but here I am. 14 years later. I've taken many roads and have began to, after 14 years, find where I feel I truly belong. I specialize in cosplay photography now and I love it. It is slowly coming back together now with covid slowing down (another long story). Also college when I did go did not offer anything in photography. I went shortly and realized it was a waste of time because I wasn't going to be an accountant or phycologist however both skills have helped in photography for me. My oldest son got his degree and my youngest is working on his now. I'm so glad they are taking a different path than I did. They will have an easier go of it I hope. It's really hard being a business owner that is not motivated by money. I imagine it's even harder having that person as a father. Anyways thaks so much for the videos and inspiration. Cheers for the U.S.!
I have an AA in Journalism, BA in Broadcasting and MBA. I completely agree with this video. Most of the technical skills needed to be any sort of "creative entrepreneur" can be learned on the job, but higher education teaches kids how to be well-rounded adults by creating a space where it's okay to fail over and over again. Being able to freely experiment, make mistakes and figure out who you are is the best thing for kids coming out of grade school.
I grew up in the United States where a degree comes at considerable cost. that was money we did not have and nor is it feasible to pay for it with part time work. I joined the US Army instead and served overseas. I learned quickly because where I am from, you sink or you swim. I was not privileged enough to pay to get taught how to learn. I just learned as necessity is the mother of invention. I think what you describe is a privileged persons approach. Either due to money or availability of affordable education if you were fortunate to live in a country where that is an option. After having a 20+ year career outside the photography field in an industry of fortune 500 companies I've noticed one truth. A degree does not indicate anything other then privilege. I see more people fail to succeed long term in the industry with degrees then those without. Those who have demonstrated the personal drive to learn, succeed, and thrive long term are often without degrees and are often the most knowledgeable and respected members of the community which our industry is. I with no degree broadened my horizon not by reading about it, I lived it. I have been in roughly 26 countries, lived in 4 as a resident and speak 4 languages. I have an engineering job without an engineering education and have the respect of my peers. I believe you are what you choose. No amount of coaching or instruction makes you what you become. Only aptitude, hunger, and raw drive does that. Those can't be taught or given...only earned.
I am 47 and went to college and did a BTEC in care and worked in a nursing home for 18 years whilst my interest in photography grew. In 2017 I got a canon 750D to further my photography. At the end of last year I upgraded my 750D to 5D MK 4. The only qualification I got since leaving college in 1993 was an HNC in Computing. I now do photography for estate agents and can set my own work rate.
I am a professional photographer and I do not have a degree. Between ADHD and dyslexia, that was not well managed, I barely graduated secondary school. Growing up in the military, moved around the world and had wonderful experiences with many cultures. After several jobs that were very physically taxing, but never giving up photography, I took a position as head of photography and videography for a multinational manufacturing company. I am still doing photography in a couple of disciplines for myself, which has slowed things a bit. But, I sure am enjoying what I do and it never gets mundane. The different disciplines helped in my "day" job. Being able to understand how to photograph everything from small parts all the way up to machines the size of buildings, makes a big difference. I hit a learning curve recently when I was asked to produce more images of people. After some trial and error, and some lights, now I'm making stunning environmental portraits. Scott, thank you for all that you do. I have done a little food, for fun, and my hat is off to you. That genera would take years to master and I have no intention to do so. Your channel is honest and forthcoming in many layers and that is why I'm drawn to it. A bit of how to, a bit of how to run a business, that is right in my wheelhouse. Thank you for what you do and your willingness to share.
From my experience, going to college for business definitely did help me launch into my now full-time photography career (never actually took a photo class in school though). The obvious basics of learning finance/accounting/marketing/etc were very useful, but also having a ton of other students to be my portrait test subjects helped give me a lot of practice early on in a comfortable and low stress environment. After school I got a full time office job in logistics (non photo related) which helped me learn a ton about customer expectations, being professional, handling major issues and obstacles, which now makes any issues I run into with photography feel like much less of a big deal. Fortunately I was able to avoid any debt by going to cheap community college/state college and having my parents help with tuition. Can't say this needs to be the path for everybody but I agree with this whole video that university/college lets you "learn how to learn" and become a lot more mature without major consequences.
No degree. Served 4 years in the military. Did 1 year of college and dropped out. Paid off all debt and my house by age 40. Would have been sooner but kids took priority lol. In my opinion, degrees are worthless unless you're in the field of law, medicine, or engineering or those types . College for the most part is a waste of time, money, and are mainly indoctrination camps. Trades are where I'm going to direct my children more than college. Little to no debt coming out making nearly $100k/yr and always in demand. Here in the US anyway to me college is a scam for the most part. 50% drop out but demand someone else pay their debt off for them. I dropped out of college and worked a job for 12 years that I just quit to retire early after learning how to invest and live debt free the last 15 years. Its 2022. Almost everything can be learned online for free.
If someone has the skills, is well connected and most importantly has a sufficiently large ego, they could succeed in commercial photography at any age. In film days, a working-class lad like David Bailey needed to hone his skills at a studio like John French, where he would have learned lighting and darkroom practice, and especially how to deal with clients with large egos. If someone had to choose between a limited skillset and an outgoing personality, and encyclopaedic knowledge of the medium and a reticent manner, the first is more likely to succeed commercially.
Oh man, I have a very unsexy answer. In about 15 months I was able to create a full-time, entirely sustainable photography business. No formal photography or business training. Everything I learned was from....RUclips. Seriously.
I shot my first recored photo when I was nine and I am still shooting today! Even if you have a degree, I would recommend becoming an assistant to a working photographer before you go it alone as a professional photographer. School will only teach you so much !
I got my masters in photography 5 years after finishing my architecture degree, happy that I did it for many reasons. It was very much an art degree, I learnt a lot more about John Berger than running a business.
As a research scientist that recently tuned into your videos, I have to say this is my favorite video that I've seen on your channel. I might even recommend it to my students, because it brings up some great points about how one learns. Through practice and patience.
I didn't do the whole university thing (wasn't academic enough, to be frank) but looking back I genuinely feel the only thing I missed out on was the social aspect. But, I have no frame of reference as I didn't experience uni life. I don't believe doing a degree would have served me particularly well in my career because l'd have missed out on several years of hands-on, real life work experience which served me incredibly well professionally. It gave me a head start and I was able to progress 'up the ladder' at a younger age. When I was recruiting designers a few years ago as part of managing a creative studio, the consistent feedback was that university was a waste of their time and taught them nothing about working as a professional. Perhaps controversially, I actually felt that the designers I took on that didn't go to uni were more talented! I take your point about university being good from a personal development point of view, but I'd argue that it's an incredibly expensive way to go about it - especially if the subject matter is irrelevant and won't serve you in your future career.
Yup. I have two of them. No help from home but I took loans and as you said I built confidence and life experience I draw on everyday. I worked in advertising for years, later I retrained and became a professional chef. Hard work but I loved it. Fast forward, loans paid, happy in my work then Covid hit. Now I've got Long Covid that's not budging. Pivoting AGAIN. Crap. Thank you for doing these RUclips's they're helpful and inspiring. With luck I'll see you for a portfolio review next year. All the best to everyone having to 'pivot'.
Didn’t get a degree, had to work right out of high school or I would have been homeless (again). Spent 7 years in retail management before quitting to do local Jack of all trade photography, which obviously failed because that’s a terrible plan to make money, but I learned a lot. Said yes to everything and learned as I went. Had to go back to retail full time to pay off some debts, saved my money and moved to NYC where there is a real photography industry. Started at the bottom as a studio grunt (at age 34) and now freelance as an assistant and shooter three years later. A degree would have exposed me to a lot more of the world earlier, and made me a more interesting person, so I do miss out on that. Granted I’ve had a massively unique life and that has positioned myself differently than other photographers so I consider that a blessing and a value to my journey.
Once again I am impressed by your view of the world. The unpretentious, pragmatic and humanistic vision is something I share so closely. Interesting conversation.
I am a retired professional photographer who did a degree course 45 years ago. It was the best thing I have ever done for myself. I learnt my place in history, I embraced the intricacies of class structure in order to become socially mobile, I got a superb education, and gained the confidence to go out and try and try again. Without my education, I would have crashed and burned. There is not a day when I don’t look back in gratitude.
Archeology degree... now i am at coaching school so i can teach people how to ride a bike. All after 12 years+, 5/7days running training with a coach. And still learning something new each day, today i learned from you how to guide the path of young photographers that i will meet in the future. Regards!
2 года назад
Totally agreed ! And thanks for saying that !! I have a PhD degree in Neuroscience, but given that research market in France is a very big mess (and for personal reasons as well) I did my own business 6 years ago as BtoB photographer. I've been asked how a researcher could possibly go to "only photography", and I think this is absolutely out of topic. For me, PhD has been an incredible experience that made me grow up in many subjects : manage a project, deal with the unknown, learn new things, work, understand needs of people and most of all, a huge dose of maturity. So yes, I totally share your point and again, thanks for you content and your useful channel !
This is precisely what my problem with higher education is, how it has lost focus from creating doctors of philosophy and turned into some kind of assisted living facility for the developmentally delayed. It's better if you can avoid spending the time and money on college, but it's hard to know what to replace it with. A lot of jobs we go to college for (like photography or programming) are not sciences but really crafts that are best taught as apprenticeships, but when the industry refuses to offer it, there is not much you can do about it as an 18-year-old, you have to work with the options that you've been given.
I agree. University really opens up your mind and teaches you how to learn. Most people in their current job role don’t know how to do the role when they start out, they know how to learn the role
I got a degree in Photography from The Art Institute of Atlanta back in 2009. My Photography degree definitely helped me in some ways as a photographer but also hurt me. The debt leaving school was substantial and stunted my business growth. At the time school taught me techniques that you couldn’t otherwise learn as easily, now you can just learn how to be a photographer on the internet.
I learned my career in the US Navy. University life came after the military which was insightful but not necessary. The Navy gave me all the tools needed for being a photographer.
Here was my journey. I’m currently 42 years old, grew up in California and moved outside of Philadelphia in 1997 at 17 years of age. My high school best friend got into photography which inspired me to buy my first Nikon film camera and started doing portraits. Parallel to this I found DJing through my love of music. So I bought turntables and started spending all my money as an 18 year old on records. One day my camera got stolen and I didn’t have money to buy a new one so I focused on music. Ended up with a decent career as a DJ. Got an agent, held residencies in Atlantic City and Philadelphia. Got to do some traveling…. Etc…etc… Then in 2018, my DJ career was in a good place and I had some spare money and needed another creative outlet. Photography called me back and I bought another camera and a couple nice lenses. 5 years later I’m still DJing and my career as a photographer has grown. My goal will be to eventually step back from DJing and focus more on my Photography. Oh, somewhere in the middle of that story I went to business school, got an associates degree in computers and networking, but never did anything with it. 🤷🏼♂️
I completely agree that College is good for teaching good information and getting used to people around you, that said, I started my business at age 23 and make a killing. I dropped out of college to do that. I would not expect any 18 year old to just start a business unless it was something more physical related. I worked for other people while I went to school and eventually got the knowledge I needed to be able to do it myself, and learn as I went. I would expect an 18 year old to get a job as a photographer assistant and learn the ropes for a few years before attempting to go out on their own. It doesn't take college to do that, it take maturity. I was a manager for Radio Shack at age 20, because I had 5 years of sales and customer experience up to that time, and I was really good at selling and dealing with employees. I don't think my college time did anything for that, growing up did, and doing it and learning what worked and what didn't. You don't need college to be a great photographer, but you do need some life lessons and a knowledge of running a business and basic accounting. Back in my day that likely meant some college classes, today all of it can be learned on RUclips for free. I was pre internet, my business was pre internet and then also during the early internet days.
aha - I'm that 40 (well 41) year old degreeless you speak of! I think a HND was the highest I achieved - but honestly, not worth the paper it's printed on. Not unless Flash animation comes back into vogue lol. Do I regret not having a degree? Maybe. My siblings both have strong degrees in Linguistics and Zoology. Do they use them? Nope. I declared myself self-employed since 26 - In that time, I've been a graphic designer, web developer and general jack of all trades. I did form a limited company back in 2011 and created a reasonably success online store from pretty much zero capital. The stress was huge and I didn't really have the foresight to expand in a way to eliminate that stress - which eventually got the better of me after about 4 years. I sometimes wonder if I'm leaving this all too late. If I'm too long in the tooth - especially when I see videos about getting professional being a 10 year process. However, as a little anecdote, I will always remember one of my first web clients in London. She was mid 60s - never ran a business before, not particularly rich. But she started a business in a niche market and caught it at the right time. It made her millions. So it's never too late to learn, and never too late to put your life in a different direction and follow your dreams.
Nottingham to London for me, everything you say is sound advice. I was on a 5 year vocational degree. The first year they wanted to get rid of the folk who wouldn't make it, it was tough. Then 4 years of life changing experiences and to be honest fun. You need the space away from your parents to properly grow up in a safe environment. It is not so easy now, I came from a poor background and social mobility was encouraged. The big shock was that half the people on my course were from public school.
I'm also Dyslexic. This story is similar to mine. Learning how to learn and failing during it informed how I went forward in life. Thanks for sharing this Scott. Nice to know I am in good company.
I have done studies in horticulture and security industry but not photography. I feel my photography journey is one I need to self explore and let my brain just run in any direction while shooting finding different weird and wonderful compositions and poses. I think study helps with photography to learn how to use a camera what lenses do to objects at different focal lengths and more. Color theory is another big one to wrap ones head around. photography is a industry that one will never stop learning. I think it's really the hardest industry to get into
I never went to university, I joined the RAF at 18, but gained HND and then Degree in Aeronautical Engineering through my career. It’s only now as I enter my fifth decade on this earth that I have time to dedicate to things I thoroughly enjoy, I now have my own Studio/Mancave that allows me the time & space to experiment in whichever genre I choose.
Bachelor's degree in history. I think something to keep in mind is that finishing a degree gives you two things. 1) a commitment to learning. 2) learning to learn. I will NEVER know all that there is to photography. It's simply not possible. But its not just about what you learn, it's learning to learn.
Science Master's from the U.K., PhD from the U.S.. I think we had similar upbringing. Agree with learning how to learn, and would add learning how not to quit under pressure, and learning how to communicate and work deeply with a lot of very different types of people. I remember working with academics during the day, and working at a bar on the Liverpool docks in the evenings. Not sure which shaped me more. There are many ways to experience life successfully, but this video is a really interesting insight.
Well, this subject changes a LOT depending on where you live. Here, in Brazil, getting a degree is mostly a life long debt (considering you're a regular person, who need a loan and can't afford to just pay it regularly). The only way of living outside of your parents house, while going to university, is if your parents are rich (or you got into one of the highly competitive federal universities). I'm 24 now and, despite being one of that "first of the class" kids in school, I had chosed to avoid it, at least at the moment. Considering how expensive this is and how little experience a 18ish have, I think the best thing to do is just work on whatever you can after highschool, for at least a year. This helps to better understand what the hell do you really want, and then pursuit it. Of course, I did know what to pursuit after school and had a pretty decent financial education from my parents, I learned how to manage my shit on my own with them, but a degree won't do sheit about this for you here. Also, now I have 7 years of proper work, while my friends who did got to the college are just starting out (and most of them got a debt to study something they don't even want to work with). Anyways, what works for some, may not work for the other.
Always hated school, was barely present in 8th and 9th grade. Instead i was smoking weed and playing guitar in various metal bands. It was not until i got into a construction / project manager school after military i liked studies. Got very good grades and a great job afterwards. Photography is what I do to relax in the norwegian forests after work or in the weekends. Got into it in 2019 and bought my first proper camera this summer. Its so fun and i really wish i could do that and music full time but thats only a dream.
I went, did two years studying k-6 (love children). Best years of my life till this day. But I didn't finish. I have dibilitating ADHD(hoping to get medication for it soon) it made it impossible to do anything that I didn't have any interest in just for money(which is luxury i find neurotypicals can afford). Now just turned 24, starting to build my product photography business. Had a fine art portrait business fail. God gave me this after covid. I'm not particularly good with people, though they seem to like me. I'm socially awkward, so product photography is just heaven for me. I'm getting projects no less than a 1000 and I'm okay with it for now. I hope to do better and get better. So now I'm just a sponge. Willing and ready to learn, to change and make the right decisions to be where I want to be in the future. My dream brand to work with in 5 years (when I get good) would be Leneige. Don't think it's going to happen but I can dream.
Thank you for this video Scott - I am incredibly dyslexic and was really against going to University for quite a while due to the workload and struggling to keep focused in a educational environment. I left A-levels and an Art Diploma at 21 a little naive and tried to establish my Photography business and instantly failed and couldn't get the work or wasn't taken seriously in the industry. I hit a mental road block and decided my best option was to try get a trade or a skill to full back on. I went and did a City and Guilds L2 in Electrical Installation which I don't regret at all because its helped me with my DIY and practical skill with on set electric and set building. But still throughout the course I knew deep down I wanted to focus on my photography. After completing the course I decided maybe University was my best option to enhance my knowledge of Photography and gain access into the industry through the University's contacts. I worked a temporary job at a theatre as I had an interest in lighting and set building saved some money and enrolled on too a BA at Middlesex in Photography - They were fantastic in supporting my dyslexia and building my confidence in myself again and overall the facilities, lectures and technicians where all brilliant. In the second year I managed to gain some work with Tim Flach (my Specialty is animal/pet photography) which was fantastic and as you have said many times assisting a photographer is an incredible way of networking and learning the industry. After graduating, I have now set up my own Studio - Last year in the middle of the pandemic it really hasn't been easy and I have had a few very slow months with scary overheads but I love what I do - I would love to do one of your 1 to 1 sessions and have your insight into how I can move forward. As things have been tough theses last few months and being a small new business isn't easy.
Thanks for the great advice. I didn't have the opportunity to go to university but always loved learning, so I still try to learn as much as possible to improve my life and talents.
This video is incredible well timed for me as I'm 18 and a couple of weeks from now I'm starting university. It is in a field different to photography and I can't see myself working that but nonetheless I think it would be an excellent experience. In my country and in my region in particular the barrier to entry in photography is considerably low. A photographer in my area had taken me with him to a couple of weddings for me to learn and see how he does things. After him seeing what I can do and that I'm somewhat competent (as competent as an unexperienced 18 year old photographer can be) he had recommended me to do some jobs on my own. A week ago I was strapped to the edge of a bridge photographing bunji jumps. I got this job mostly because nobody else would wanna do it considering the low payment but opportunities like this one are everything for me at the moment. Apart from that your videos are truly inspirational to me, they make me wanna create the best photographs I can and as you would say not just pretty pictures. For now there will be a lot of pretty pictures because it's incredibly hard to make something amazing. There will be even more not so pretty pictures but I do like the journey and I will keep on photographing.
Totally agree that you should try taking any small jobs you can for now, especially that one with bunji jumpers sounds really fun! Just make sure you consistently increase your prices at a comparable level with others in your area, even if it's just asking for an extra $50-100 for a shoot every 3-6 months. A rule I heard once is that if every client is saying no to your prices, you're probably charging too much for your skill/quality. If every client is saying yes to your prices, you're probably not charging enough! It's ok to get turned down every so often but getting that early income helps a lot with upgrading your camera gear and investing in education/other equipment.
The idea of being strapped to a Bridge sends shivers down my spine, as I am terrified of heights but hats off to you, sounds like such an incredible experience. As Chris has said below taking those small jobs here and there whilst they might not always be the photography you want to be shooting, they are a great way to build your skills, confidence and get your name out there and you never know what might come from those small jobs. - Good luck with your course !
I've got a Bachelor of Design to my name. Never really put those tangible skills to use as I became a Copywriter the day after I graduated. But the intangible skills, social skills, learning skills everything you talked about here, priceless. I doubt I'd be a Photographer today without that degree and the decade as an Advertising Creative. Another great vid.
I have a medical degree in the United States which means 4 years of college,another 4 years of medical school followed by 4 years of residency training. No regrets. I never really thought about it or realized it until I watched your video, but yea I’ve learned how to learn things rapidly. Not only that my career as a physician affords me the opportunity to have a stress free career as a photographer. I have the financial freedom to shoot what I want, when I want and who I want to work with. Small world, my grandparents and mom grew up in Leicester
I started my photography career at 18 yrs old, did not go to get a degree. Straight out of High School I went straight into the US Army... and worked my chosen field. Combat Photographer and Photojournalist. There are pros and cons to going either way with a degree.... a degree can give you life long contacts. But speaking strictly to photography, either your bent to it or your not, you have the eye or you don't.
Thanks for the video but here in the U.S. your take on things would be outdated. Universities do not prepare students for the real world. They graduate students who are brainless, timid and extremely entitled. Degree in hand they can go out and fight for an unpaid internship. Yes, you make contacts that can be useful for life. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money.
A. Einstein said "Education is all you have after forgetting all the facts". My friends who went to university have one thing in common, they are all disciplined thinkers. Few of them worked in their chosen fields of study.
this was cool. I started my career too young, 19, because I assisted a famous photographer. I was in over my head sooo many times. I lost my business after a couple of years but got a restart at 25 after living abroad which made me grow up. Two things make you grow up. Move out of the country or fail at your business. The famous photographers I worked for btw was Susan Einstein (grand daughter of Albert) and also Bruce Ayers (Vogue). When I restarted my career, I assisted the great Mizuno (Sports Illustrated/Playboy USA) who guided me and helped me find my feet. I think it's amazing that you give guidance to so many here on RUclips. This is much better than most RUclipsrs who are trying to sell presets and gear.
After a one year computer operator certification program at community college, I got my first job as a … computer operator, circa. 1976. Took night classes off and on for the next 25 years in a steadily advancing, lucrative IT career (but still no degree). Then chucked it all and opened a new age bookstore for the next 5 years. THEN, went back to school full time in my mid-50s. • B.S. in Sustainable Living and Environmental Studies, 2012. • B.S. in Media & Communications, 2013. • M.A. in Film Studies, 2014. Maybe someday someone will hire me to shoot food photos. I’d like that. I’m really good with sweeping floors and rolling cables and organizing stuff. Best part of film school was learning set etiquette and production crew basics
I’m a photographer I did not go to college for photography but instead computer science as I plan on taking over my fathers computer forensics business. Doing the job you travel a lot, I have chose photography as my side job. My hobby, and although I consider it a side job or a hobby, I take it just as serious as my regular job as a forensic analyst if anything more serious. Watching my father grow his own company, I learned how to run a business and am still learning. But with that being said, I learn from experience, I learn from RUclips, I learn from masterclasses, and peoples workshops. I didn’t choose photography as a degree is because a variable of reasons, starting out income is very unstable unless you hire on at a company. Instead I do forensics and build what I have with what I have having the best of both worlds.
Hi Scott, I have a Bachelor's degree from the 80s. When I changed career I went back to college to study photography and got a Pearson's BTec Diploma 2019 - got accepted by all the universities I applied to. However, I couldn't get funding for another bachelor's degree so... I'm trying to start-up a dog photography business and then I'll apply for an MA later when I have a reasonable portfolio. Thanks Scott.
I don’t have a degree. My teens and 20s were spent trying to live. I grew up poor and couldn’t afford my first dslr camera till I was 28. I have spent the last few years learning about photography and photographers. All as a hobby. When I got married I spent time helping my wife go to school so she could get a degree. It worked out for us. We have a house cars paid off and now in my late 30s starting to do the things I couldn’t afford to when I should have been in school.
I have a BSc in Zoology and BScPharm. The stress of pharmacy and a long concussion burnt me out fast. I am now transitioning into photo/video work. In retrospect I should have gotten into something creative from the start, but my science degrees help me understand how the world works, which I think has helped me understand and grasp camera technology and photography/video concepts quicker than without it. Additionally, some philosophy courses I took in university have helped me on a personal level with finding/making your own meaning in life, which helps fulfill WHY I want to do photography and video work.
I've taught at private and state universities in the states for years and couldn't agree with you less. Way too many students get student loans and ware $100,000 in debt but can't find a job when they graduate. Universities don't drive a business education for opening your own shop, and most fail. Instead, find a good mentor in a working studio or business, stay motivated and interested having a sense of curiosity every day, and work you ass off. When you are ready, step out on your own. Degrees in photography are self-limiting. And, yes, I have a graduate degree.
I spent 3 years at a top university, 2 years of Astrophysics, and 1 year of Electronic and Electrical Engineering. I didn't finish either course, and very much did not enjoy being a student. I was getting paid for photo work and teaching fitness classes at gyms while studying. I eventually realised I enjoyed my work much more than my studies. So I left and now have a photography company and a fitness company.
Also, I very much regret choosing possibly the hardest degree option. It was a lot of work and first year DID count. It was 30 hours of contact time per week and about 10 hours of homework. It's amazing to hear how most other courses are just dossing off. So it's very sad that 'a degree' is just seen as 'a degree'. Someone with a masters in astrophysics is not equally as qualified as someone with a masters in English, for example. I had many friends studying English and they had about 3 contact hours per week.
Definitely agree on the value of a university experience. I did mine and then started in my chosen career in an entirely different field. Learning some life skills and how to learn was the most important bit.
Yup totally agree. I went to University for ages and only managed to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree although I probably have enough credits for a doctorate. I was young and stupid but not so stupid as to think I didn't need higher education to learn how to learn and also to learn how to deal with other human beings! I certainly feel as though all my years at University kept me from making dumb mistakes when I entered the workforce. So when I finally left academia I hit the ground running. Never once have I been asked what my degree is in. Although I love to toss out that little titbit at my current job since I am lead software developer and my degree in fine art with a concentration in watercolor painting always gets a laugh! I'll never forget my first real job after getting out of University. All the way down in the big city (Boston) and the guy that got me the job gave me one bit of advice. He said don't hit on the art director (the woman who was my boss). And I know for a fact that if I had been at that job a few years earlier and she asked me to go out for lunch I would have been all hitting on her in a heartbeat! I know this is a silly example but I honestly don't think I was mature enough to have been able to deal with that situation prior to spending all those years in college. And that one job was pivotal in my early career development. That one job got me many jobs and if I had messed it up I am sure I would have ended up as a sales clerk in an art supply shop!
I went University for Photography back in the 90's , I wished I had taken something else , it was basically assignment filling. You earn how to be Artsy , Fartsy, not how to make an income from photography.
Great video and a interesting topic. My opinion is that going to a university (especially in another city) for most young people @18 years old is the first steps of becoming independent, and making lifelong connections and networking that will help you along the way as a professional in any domain.
Thanks a lot for this video. I was curious to hear your considerations on this topic. I graduated in law and got a job in what is supposed to be a related area. With my partner, who graduated in economics, we try to build a studio to finally put our shared passion in the centre of our lives. The collateral skills, aside from the photography, are definitely a huge bonus that speeds up the learning curve and, what's maybe more important, protects the business and our freedom with it. We are both 29, so we consider ourselves grown enough to hold responsibility and young enough to afford perseverance. Some graduation may help more than others, but at the end of the day, the person you are and your ability to filter priorities are what makes the difference, and that's a skill every University path offers. Given the same skill in photography, chances are that a person who graduated in graphic design with a basic understanding of licensing or privacy will run a good photography business as much as a lawyer with a sensibility for design.
People who say "I DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE and LOOK at me, Family, 20 kids and a paid off house" shouldn't be leaving comments. Because it's leaving a false perspective on how the world works. The world is about opportunities and how to get those opportunities. College creates more opportunities so the probability of becoming successful greatly increase with a education and the college is able to help find a job. I found my first design job from going to college, the skills I needed sharpened with trial and error. Learning from my classmates and of course my teachers insight to help me understand it on a personal level to what I needed to succeed.The courses helped build my confidence for me and the confidence in my first employer. I was well equipped to deal with the real world and til this day, 17 years later I still remember the lessons college taught me.
I was particularly interested in this question. I googled it and I think you pretty much answered it. What did the degree do for you? Did you learn to be a better photographer? Or did you already have an 'artist's eye'? Did you just aquire a degree, based on the uni syllabus, or did it teach you the things which you now apply to your photography? As a 56 year old, married, white male, in the UK, I am counting down to retirement and am settled and therefore highly unlikely to start any form of professional photography business. I simply don't have the opportunity, away from the house, to shoot and improve. I have the imagination of a conceptual artist but not the practical skills to pull it off. My retouching knowledge is basic and my inclination, effort and commitment toward travelling and improvement are sadly non-existent. I picked up a dslr in 2015, following the disappointment of having commissioned a friend, who (I understood) was an amateur hobbyist photographer and (I understood) could take a good picture (on the cheap), to shoot my wedding! Disaster! Subsequently, Ive pored over 8 years worth of RUclips videos; bought a couple of grand's worth of erroneous gear and have done 30-odd glamour photography shoots (because, let's face it, it's more fun than photographing still-life) but due to a deeply-rooted inferiority complex, I am still barely any further forward. Ive learned many technical lessons, from the TV, I'm sure but I just stress out and fail to apply the knowledge on-site. The only thing I can still take away from my photography is any improvement in my 'keeper rate'. The internet has provided the worst environment for and overly-self-critical person. I have become so aware of the need to try NOT to compare myself to other more skilled photographers and retouchers. Im aware of my limitations and am less concerned nowadays about the issues but it was interesting to watch your video perspective. Thanks and keep doing what you do.
Excellent video and topic!! I hope enough young people watch this video and take you up on your advice. Although I was too poor to attend university right out of secondary school, I joined the U.S. Navy at age 17 where I was able to attend night classes at a local university. Unlike classroom studies, the Navy taught me many of the life skills I needed and helped me avoid many of pitfalls my peers experienced in their youth. Best of all, the Navy brought me too Japan where I had to learn everything all over again just to function as a literate adult in another language and culture, albeit easier with some maturity under my belt. Navy life is not the same as university for sure, but I think a good option for young folks depending on the kind of job.
Agree. I gained so much self-confidence at university, realized I can solve almost any problem if I decide to do it, learned to use literature (yes, internet was hardly accessible at that time, early 90's), learn to memorize lots of details and how to approach to a problem. I started professional photography after two jobs, in my mid-30's, I'm 50 now, living quite good of photography (weddings, portraits and mid-level product photography in my studio). My wife was scared but really supportive when I decided to go pro full-time. 15 years later - it was my best decision ever, except marrying her 🙂Best wishes!
I went to university to do graphic design. Useful bit of education on so many levels. Photography was part of that but was never a career choice. Now I’m doing both at 62 and looking forward to continuing well after retiring from my lecturing job at university. My work has been a constant thread throughout my life. Now I teach those 18-24 year old kids, and mostly I try to shape their thinking to take advantage of their youth and their position in life. The education I want to give is specific to a subject, yet applicable to so many other fields, and that will give them the freedom to experiment and use their time at university to explore and make mistakes. I hope I succeed in this.
I did not feel capable of making a life long affecting decision at 18! So I didn't ...and I didn't go to Uni with all my friends. I obviously realise that not feeling capable of a decision WAS a decision! I some times regret it but usually don't, I might have turned out very different and I have since found my way of learning and my appreciation for it, just a bit delayed. Have taken up various courses in the pursuit and photography being the most long lasting...got some nice work but not enough for full time by any means. The focus hasn't been enough, maybe Uni could have been that lesson in focus...who knows...but here we are 20 years later and still enjoying learning and growing at least. I feel a lot of folks have already become settled in their ways by now...stuck perhaps, I threw myself off a 5ft skate ramp for the first time last week, terrifying but part of learning.
Your journey is similar to mine, Biology Degree, Masters and Post Grad Diploma. I now work in print media, where you have to learn fast, think on your feet and be able to Listen and Process info very quickly. Those skills became second nature after studying at Uni. Now I think nothing of putting in the hours to get a job done.
Photography is an art it is an emotion no school can really teach you that, But for you as a person going to school teaches you how to look how to question and how to find that inner artist. And the first thing youll learn in the world is that people tell you you dont need the rules learn to break them, But how can you learn to break thee rules if you dont know the rules.
Hi Scott, I'm in Australia and I currently have a Certificate 111 in Visual Arts (Photography) a Diploma in Photography and Photo Imaging and now studdying in a Degree in Professional Photography in Melbourne, whilst I live in Ballarat in Regional Victoria. I decided to do this as I wanted to learn about using a Camera and create the images I wanted to. As I started learning in really liked it and loved the techniques and the creativity, therefore I wanted more and felt that a Degree in Professional Photography would set me apart from most protographers and I really like learning everything and want more every day. Thank you for yout tutorials as they are really great advise and you have given many things to really take into account. Please keep them up and thank you.
I took a photography class in high school back in the late 70s. To be honest, I was pretty wasted for most of it. And photography wasn't in my path. (To be honest, nothing specific was in my path.) I joined the Army and learned radios. Radios morphed into computers and I've made a lot of money in computers over the last 40 years. I really wish I had pursued photography. I shot motorcycles for about 8 years and did pretty well. I got in some magazines and a cover or two. No money. I decided I wanted to do this professionally and possibly had the chops. (The jury is still out ;-) ) But it was hard figuring out what photography I could believe in enough to sell. I don't by photos for my walls so how do I convince someone else to?? I had a friend who was an actress and traveling to Atlanta for headshots because, reportedly, no one in Charleston knew how to shoot industry-standard actor headshots. And I saw an opportunity to help others pursue their goals with my photography.. and make some money. It's been love ever since. Now.. with that as background.. I looked at photography courses and they were pretty pricey. If I was a young guy and it was an investment in my life, it might be reasonable (even here in the States). But.. I've got 10.. 20 years left to do this? Maybe? And I wonder how much they would teach me that I don't already know. (Maybe I could teach some of the classes. LOL) Now.. I DO think it would be interesting to go through the exercise. I'm sure I don't know everything they'd teach me. And, quite honestly, just being engaged and shooting more would likely be good. But.. it's a lot of money at this stage in my life. (Although, I'll be kinda ticked off if I'm shooting in 20 years and thinking, "Man, I shoulda gone to college".
I’m 52 and just signed up for a degree in photography, with plans to go for a masters. I have two bachelor degrees (logistics, and business management) and im 100% retired with substantial savings and investment income. I think going back to college will help me become exposed to more skills, while also teaching me what i dont know that i should know.
I am currently 19 and getting my degree in Photography summer next year at the Higher Graphical College in Vienna. I had not to pay for the education and I am really grateful for living in Austria. Also I am free to go study at Universities in Austria with the Diploma I take. The 5 Years helped me personally develop a lot of social skills along with huge insight at the most different views on photography due to the many teachers I had. I think you would fit in there really well with your way of teaching people about photography.
I am 56 years old and have just gone back to college to study photography. I agree with you that at my age it's unnecessary, but I have been going to college off and on with myriad interruptions my whole adult life. I want to finish and get a degree for, if nothing else, as the culmination of all the effort I've expended over the years. And it's fun. I'm learning a lot, more than I thought I would and I find that process very enjoyable. My goal has always been to remain intellectually curious and seek out information on anything that interests me. College is just a more structured way to do that. Do I need college or a degree? Absolutely not, especially at my age. But I want it.
Very good advice. I have also advise people who migrate to a new country to do a university degree in their new country of residence. It helps enormously to get in sync with cultural rhythm, find friends and assimilate
Started my BA photography degree at 32 years old... Decided I didn't want to work in the hospitality industry until I retired. 100% would've dropped out if I went straight from school. Uni didn't teach me anything technical but it did help me to think in a creative way and has opened some doors for me. Now in my second year of being a full time freelancer... Pretty sure I would be in the same position if I would have just approached local photographers for assisting experience etc. but I'm glad I went non the less as I always regretted never going to uni. I do feel that the emphasis is always on 'young' people going to uni but as a mature student entering the world of commercial photography, I have no regrets going.
I got a PhD in robotics and work for a big robotics company in R&D. I do photography for fun on the side, with some payed jobs here and there. I honestly don’t think anything from my degrees translates to photography, it’s just completely different. Which is why I like doing it in my free time. It’s a great way to tingle other senses and abilities that I don’t need for my real job.
left school with nothing - I am 61 and have just finished an MFA in photography at UCA (distinction) after completing a BA photography (1st class) - five years of non stop full time education life long learning.
An interesting video. BASc, EE, U of Waterloo (near Toronto), Class of 1971. My experience was a tad different from yours. At the time, Waterloo was said to be the largest employer of Cambridge grads, other than Cambridge itself. It was a brutally hard course, and there were no unintelligent students. School for 4 months, work term for 4 months, repeat for 5 calendar years. Best thing I ever did, had a great career, photography was a hobby, still is. Last assignment was in South Africa for 18 months where I got great photographic opportunities. Happy for your success and enjoy your channel.
I made the choice to not go to University and use those three years to give photography a try. While my friends were getting into debt I was making money (all be it not much). In those three years I learnt more than I ever could have at University, I am not academic in any way. I did however do a Btec in Art and Design, which on reflection I had fantastic tutors which played a huge role in the way I think about things.
I don't have a photography degree. I started out photography about 3 years ago as a hobby, but because of covid I was not able to work in my main work thats why I started my photography business. I had a thought to go to school and study, but I talked with friends who have photography degree and they still struggle to earn enough.
I agree. I was always business oriented, until my last semester in high school when Kodachrome became my favorite song. BUT I'd already been accepted for accounting so I ventured off while setting aside photography for 20 years. There seemed to be a lot of gatekeeping 20 years ago plus digital was in it's infancy. Having a degree helps you in many ways, depending where you go it opens your view of the world and cultures if you're not adventurous or were sheltered growing up.
I have a graphic design degree with honors and I’m self taught as a photographer. Graduated in 2004, nobody has ever asked to see my certificate. Money well spent!
I purely in love with photography, since my college days, but there's no photography class available here in Philippines so i don't have a degree, i purely learned everything thru RUclips tutorials.
I am currently offering photography audits over here www.tinhouse-studio.com/product-category/coaching/
I'm a photographer with a degree. And while you can definitely become a professional photographer without one, I can't stand when people write off the idea of going to school for photography. The amount of structure, connections, and quick learning that happened was the best thing for me. If you don't want to go to school for it, don't. It's silly to write off people who do.
Totaly agree..! 😊👍💪
I came into photography as a bio major, chemistry and Psychology minor. I also played in a local band for a few years.
I only got into it to be able to photograph wildlife. As I got better with wildlife, I was offered a job doing live sports, which then blossomed into doing studio portraits. I also like to shoot concerts/festivals/events for fun. The more I do it, the better I become. But originally the passion came from experience in other fields of study outside of photography and then bringing in that expertise to it. I think it gives me a different perspective than a lot of other people who just went to school for it and struggle to find subjects to photograph or specific areas within photography to specialize a year or two in.
I am 58. I went to a two-year college in my 20's, I couldn't afford University. It did teach me how to study, learn, and how to think properly. I still love learning new things, and while I'm working hard to improve my Photography skills, I am also involved in other endeavors since I just like to take all of life and its curiosities. I don't need to make money from photography but I love the challenge and it is satisfying to succeed.
21 years old here. 3 years into my photography business. Things are picking up and starting to shoot small campaigns. Not going to school is tough, you definitely have to be mentally strong ect ect. I think it’s “easier” to fall through the cracks of society without an education. For me now, I have no regrets it’s working out well
As someone who left school with nothing and now at the ripe age of 32 I am in a well paid job, own a house, married etc - I disagree about having to go to University to get those life lessons. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do until I was 27...then studied (certifications etc) to get into that industry. Hard work is key, learning from your mistakes and improving yourself is what I believe in.
I think the message behind what you're saying is stronger. You need to fail, learn from it and then go again. I think forcing people into a box of "you must go to University to be successful" sets people up to fail at something, that costs a crap ton of money, or be miserable.
Either way, it's your opinion and there are lots of others who went down your route and done well, so its not wrong. Thanks agian for talking about an interesting topic.
I have a few years on you and totally agree. I feel he is mixing up life experience with attending Uni and getting "degrees". You can still be a tw@t, not go to Uni, enter the real world and end up growing and be successful in a business. As long as your are willing to listen and learn. That's the key to growth. In my line of work some of the dumbest people I have met are graduates.
No offense, but shitty advice, just because it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for everyone else. LeBron went to the NBA right out of high school. So some people can say "WELLLL he didn't go to college for basketball so I won't either" and never make it in the industry. Take your bias advice and don't give it to the general public and stop trying to flex.
@@Kanoog no flexing but definitely proud of myself... I don't think it's bias, I'm just making a point that you shouldn't need to pigeon hole yourself into "a degree is the only way you can really make it".
Also why so angry man? I haven't said anything offensive or forced my opinion on anyone.
I went to college at 18 for 3 reasons - sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams and had to leave after my first year. Even with tens of thousands in loans for that year I have no regrets. It helped me figure out what I wanted to do and I returned to college a few years later for a BFA (photography) and BA (history).
One of the biggest things I learned in college was how to communicate. Working in any visual art requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do. While it was torture for me to write papers about post modern concepts it proved really helpful when working with art directors (most of whom have had the same experience). I also learned to disagree with people without thinking they were idiots, or even necessarily wrong. A lot about visual art is opinion, and having the experience of seeing people with wildly different views and attitudes from mine make some great work was incredibly valuable.
"working in any visual arts requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do" I relate to these words and thank you for just putting this comment up. I am doing my first year on Applied Arts in commercial photography and I am doing great with my marks but when it comes to what I quoted from you that is my weakness but I'm trying I will better get as long as I am trying because I love what I am doing.
53 year old starting a BA Photography degree in a few days time. Totally agree with everything in your video/s, but having breached the 40+ age barrier, I have to say that I had an itch that needed scratching. Never went to uni and always wanted to. The idea of challenging myself and reaching my full potential both creatively and commercially is a real motivator. But ultimately it is to be able to see more clearly, digest idea and formulate better outcomes. One is never too young to learn, explore and develop ideas and skills. So I say to anyone of any age watching this that has a similar itch, go do it. Go study and develop the skills you know deep down need improving. Great vid as always Scott.
I’m a professor. Yes, higher education teaches you a lot of life lessons. However, you don’t need a degree to be a good photographer but what will help is life experience… of any kind. University can be a negative experience for many whose creative passion is sidelined in the pursuit of academic credentials. Many also take a blow to their confidence if they are not succeeding in their academic field. My advice if you want to be a photographer, take a photography class and get some life experience traveling, working, learning about the world in which ever way you can.
“That’s not okay, but that’s life” probably one of the most important lessons a young person can learn. My daughter is 18 and starting her path and I’m going to show her this video. I think social media (especially RUclips) puts an immense amount of pressure on young people to be successful at a very young age. I studied photography, cinematography and Production Design and then worked in tourism for 14 years. Only started MY photography career in 2021 at age 38. However what you say is completely true. Had I started straight out of school I would have failed dismally. The experience of learning all the other things that has nothing to do with a camera or a light are invaluable to me now. I can offer clients a true understanding of their problem and I have years of compounded broad experience to solve it. Thanks Scott for another great lesson in life.
Absolutely agree with you, Scott.
University is THE place where you learn how to learn fast for the rest of your life.
I am a40 years old french photographer. Started my career in 2017 after working 9 years as a Pharmacist.
I spent 6 years in university. Every time I think about it, I know it was 100% useful in my actual everyday job.
It helps for : organize job, behave with clients, network with other professionals, learn new skills, be able to talk with client and prospect at a high level of comprehension of their own professional domain.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge !
I joined the US Armed Forces for the 1st 24 years of adulthood and picked up photography as a hobby along the way. I lived overseas for 30 + years and the experience was amazing, it's not for everyone. Studied communications while I served, didn't finish but I'm doing all right in life.
I have a 4 yr business degree and self taught photography 10 years after I graduated. 4 months after picking up a camera I received honorable mentions in professional categories at the International Photography Awards. A lot of what you said about learning how to learn has been true for me. As you’ve mentioned in past videos, understanding the business and how to make money is a vital part of being a professional photographer and I can confirm that having an entire business degree has been incredibly helpful. It seems like you don’t have to be the best photographer but you have to have a certain level of quality and know how to market yourself at that price point to really be successful. I still have a lot of work to do but I’m in a decent place after being at it for only a year. I feel like your videos provide confirmation that principles I’ve learned apply to the photography field and help give a bit of guidance to someone who’s trying to do it on their own. Landscape/wildlife photographer.
I've always been an entrepreneur. I was raised that way. College when I was younger was not really an option due to the costs and my unique situation. (too long of a story) I started my photography journey when my wife handed me a camera one day. I never thought it was the direction my life would take but here I am. 14 years later. I've taken many roads and have began to, after 14 years, find where I feel I truly belong. I specialize in cosplay photography now and I love it. It is slowly coming back together now with covid slowing down (another long story). Also college when I did go did not offer anything in photography. I went shortly and realized it was a waste of time because I wasn't going to be an accountant or phycologist however both skills have helped in photography for me. My oldest son got his degree and my youngest is working on his now. I'm so glad they are taking a different path than I did. They will have an easier go of it I hope. It's really hard being a business owner that is not motivated by money. I imagine it's even harder having that person as a father. Anyways thaks so much for the videos and inspiration. Cheers for the U.S.!
I have an AA in Journalism, BA in Broadcasting and MBA. I completely agree with this video. Most of the technical skills needed to be any sort of "creative entrepreneur" can be learned on the job, but higher education teaches kids how to be well-rounded adults by creating a space where it's okay to fail over and over again. Being able to freely experiment, make mistakes and figure out who you are is the best thing for kids coming out of grade school.
I grew up in the United States where a degree comes at considerable cost. that was money we did not have and nor is it feasible to pay for it with part time work. I joined the US Army instead and served overseas. I learned quickly because where I am from, you sink or you swim. I was not privileged enough to pay to get taught how to learn. I just learned as necessity is the mother of invention. I think what you describe is a privileged persons approach. Either due to money or availability of affordable education if you were fortunate to live in a country where that is an option. After having a 20+ year career outside the photography field in an industry of fortune 500 companies I've noticed one truth. A degree does not indicate anything other then privilege. I see more people fail to succeed long term in the industry with degrees then those without. Those who have demonstrated the personal drive to learn, succeed, and thrive long term are often without degrees and are often the most knowledgeable and respected members of the community which our industry is.
I with no degree broadened my horizon not by reading about it, I lived it. I have been in roughly 26 countries, lived in 4 as a resident and speak 4 languages. I have an engineering job without an engineering education and have the respect of my peers.
I believe you are what you choose. No amount of coaching or instruction makes you what you become. Only aptitude, hunger, and raw drive does that. Those can't be taught or given...only earned.
I am 47 and went to college and did a BTEC in care and worked in a nursing home for 18 years whilst my interest in photography grew. In 2017 I got a canon 750D to further my photography. At the end of last year I upgraded my 750D to 5D MK 4. The only qualification I got since leaving college in 1993 was an HNC in Computing. I now do photography for estate agents and can set my own work rate.
I am a professional photographer and I do not have a degree. Between ADHD and dyslexia, that was not well managed, I barely graduated secondary school. Growing up in the military, moved around the world and had wonderful experiences with many cultures. After several jobs that were very physically taxing, but never giving up photography, I took a position as head of photography and videography for a multinational manufacturing company. I am still doing photography in a couple of disciplines for myself, which has slowed things a bit. But, I sure am enjoying what I do and it never gets mundane. The different disciplines helped in my "day" job. Being able to understand how to photograph everything from small parts all the way up to machines the size of buildings, makes a big difference. I hit a learning curve recently when I was asked to produce more images of people. After some trial and error, and some lights, now I'm making stunning environmental portraits.
Scott, thank you for all that you do. I have done a little food, for fun, and my hat is off to you. That genera would take years to master and I have no intention to do so. Your channel is honest and forthcoming in many layers and that is why I'm drawn to it. A bit of how to, a bit of how to run a business, that is right in my wheelhouse. Thank you for what you do and your willingness to share.
From my experience, going to college for business definitely did help me launch into my now full-time photography career (never actually took a photo class in school though). The obvious basics of learning finance/accounting/marketing/etc were very useful, but also having a ton of other students to be my portrait test subjects helped give me a lot of practice early on in a comfortable and low stress environment. After school I got a full time office job in logistics (non photo related) which helped me learn a ton about customer expectations, being professional, handling major issues and obstacles, which now makes any issues I run into with photography feel like much less of a big deal. Fortunately I was able to avoid any debt by going to cheap community college/state college and having my parents help with tuition.
Can't say this needs to be the path for everybody but I agree with this whole video that university/college lets you "learn how to learn" and become a lot more mature without major consequences.
I have a degree in Economics and after I started working as a photographer I got a degree in Photography
No degree. Served 4 years in the military. Did 1 year of college and dropped out. Paid off all debt and my house by age 40. Would have been sooner but kids took priority lol. In my opinion, degrees are worthless unless you're in the field of law, medicine, or engineering or those types . College for the most part is a waste of time, money, and are mainly indoctrination camps. Trades are where I'm going to direct my children more than college. Little to no debt coming out making nearly $100k/yr and always in demand. Here in the US anyway to me college is a scam for the most part. 50% drop out but demand someone else pay their debt off for them. I dropped out of college and worked a job for 12 years that I just quit to retire early after learning how to invest and live debt free the last 15 years. Its 2022. Almost everything can be learned online for free.
If someone has the skills, is well connected and most importantly has a sufficiently large ego, they could succeed in commercial photography at any age. In film days, a working-class lad like David Bailey needed to hone his skills at a studio like John French, where he would have learned lighting and darkroom practice, and especially how to deal with clients with large egos. If someone had to choose between a limited skillset and an outgoing personality, and encyclopaedic knowledge of the medium and a reticent manner, the first is more likely to succeed commercially.
Oh man, I have a very unsexy answer. In about 15 months I was able to create a full-time, entirely sustainable photography business. No formal photography or business training. Everything I learned was from....RUclips. Seriously.
I shot my first recored photo when I was nine and I am still shooting today! Even if you have a degree, I would recommend becoming an assistant to a working photographer before you go it alone as a professional photographer. School will only teach you so much !
I got my masters in photography 5 years after finishing my architecture degree, happy that I did it for many reasons. It was very much an art degree, I learnt a lot more about John Berger than running a business.
As a research scientist that recently tuned into your videos, I have to say this is my favorite video that I've seen on your channel. I might even recommend it to my students, because it brings up some great points about how one learns. Through practice and patience.
I didn't do the whole university thing (wasn't academic enough, to be frank) but looking back I genuinely feel the only thing I missed out on was the social aspect. But, I have no frame of reference as I didn't experience uni life.
I don't believe doing a degree would have served me particularly well in my career because l'd have missed out on several years of hands-on, real life work experience which served me incredibly well professionally. It gave me a head start and I was able to progress 'up the ladder' at a younger age. When I was recruiting designers a few years ago as part of managing a creative studio, the consistent feedback was that university was a waste of their time and taught them nothing about working as a professional. Perhaps controversially, I actually felt that the designers I took on that didn't go to uni were more talented!
I take your point about university being good from a personal development point of view, but I'd argue that it's an incredibly expensive way to go about it - especially if the subject matter is irrelevant and won't serve you in your future career.
Yup. I have two of them. No help from home but I took loans and as you said I built confidence and life experience I draw on everyday. I worked in advertising for years, later I retrained and became a professional chef. Hard work but I loved it. Fast forward, loans paid, happy in my work then Covid hit. Now I've got Long Covid that's not budging. Pivoting AGAIN. Crap. Thank you for doing these RUclips's they're helpful and inspiring. With luck I'll see you for a portfolio review next year. All the best to everyone having to 'pivot'.
Didn’t get a degree, had to work right out of high school or I would have been homeless (again). Spent 7 years in retail management before quitting to do local Jack of all trade photography, which obviously failed because that’s a terrible plan to make money, but I learned a lot. Said yes to everything and learned as I went. Had to go back to retail full time to pay off some debts, saved my money and moved to NYC where there is a real photography industry. Started at the bottom as a studio grunt (at age 34) and now freelance as an assistant and shooter three years later.
A degree would have exposed me to a lot more of the world earlier, and made me a more interesting person, so I do miss out on that. Granted I’ve had a massively unique life and that has positioned myself differently than other photographers so I consider that a blessing and a value to my journey.
Once again I am impressed by your view of the world. The unpretentious, pragmatic and humanistic vision is something I share so closely. Interesting conversation.
I am a retired professional photographer who did a degree course 45 years ago. It was the best thing I have ever done for myself. I learnt my place in history, I embraced the intricacies of class structure in order to become socially mobile, I got a superb education, and gained the confidence to go out and try and try again. Without my education, I would have crashed and burned. There is not a day when I don’t look back in gratitude.
Archeology degree... now i am at coaching school so i can teach people how to ride a bike. All after 12 years+, 5/7days running training with a coach. And still learning something new each day, today i learned from you how to guide the path of young photographers that i will meet in the future. Regards!
Totally agreed ! And thanks for saying that !! I have a PhD degree in Neuroscience, but given that research market in France is a very big mess (and for personal reasons as well) I did my own business 6 years ago as BtoB photographer. I've been asked how a researcher could possibly go to "only photography", and I think this is absolutely out of topic. For me, PhD has been an incredible experience that made me grow up in many subjects : manage a project, deal with the unknown, learn new things, work, understand needs of people and most of all, a huge dose of maturity. So yes, I totally share your point and again, thanks for you content and your useful channel !
This is precisely what my problem with higher education is, how it has lost focus from creating doctors of philosophy and turned into some kind of assisted living facility for the developmentally delayed. It's better if you can avoid spending the time and money on college, but it's hard to know what to replace it with. A lot of jobs we go to college for (like photography or programming) are not sciences but really crafts that are best taught as apprenticeships, but when the industry refuses to offer it, there is not much you can do about it as an 18-year-old, you have to work with the options that you've been given.
I agree. University really opens up your mind and teaches you how to learn. Most people in their current job role don’t know how to do the role when they start out, they know how to learn the role
I got a degree in Photography from The Art Institute of Atlanta back in 2009. My Photography degree definitely helped me in some ways as a photographer but also hurt me. The debt leaving school was substantial and stunted my business growth. At the time school taught me techniques that you couldn’t otherwise learn as easily, now you can just learn how to be a photographer on the internet.
Sage advice Scott. Growing up takes time, like learning to ride a bike. This should be a 'must see vid for every 17yr old in the country! Cheers -Greg
I learned my career in the US Navy. University life came after the military which was insightful but not necessary. The Navy gave me all the tools needed for being a photographer.
Here was my journey. I’m currently 42 years old, grew up in California and moved outside of Philadelphia in 1997 at 17 years of age. My high school best friend got into photography which inspired me to buy my first Nikon film camera and started doing portraits. Parallel to this I found DJing through my love of music. So I bought turntables and started spending all my money as an 18 year old on records. One day my camera got stolen and I didn’t have money to buy a new one so I focused on music. Ended up with a decent career as a DJ. Got an agent, held residencies in Atlantic City and Philadelphia. Got to do some traveling…. Etc…etc… Then in 2018, my DJ career was in a good place and I had some spare money and needed another creative outlet. Photography called me back and I bought another camera and a couple nice lenses. 5 years later I’m still DJing and my career as a photographer has grown. My goal will be to eventually step back from DJing and focus more on my Photography.
Oh, somewhere in the middle of that story I went to business school, got an associates degree in computers and networking, but never did anything with it. 🤷🏼♂️
I completely agree that College is good for teaching good information and getting used to people around you, that said, I started my business at age 23 and make a killing. I dropped out of college to do that. I would not expect any 18 year old to just start a business unless it was something more physical related. I worked for other people while I went to school and eventually got the knowledge I needed to be able to do it myself, and learn as I went. I would expect an 18 year old to get a job as a photographer assistant and learn the ropes for a few years before attempting to go out on their own. It doesn't take college to do that, it take maturity. I was a manager for Radio Shack at age 20, because I had 5 years of sales and customer experience up to that time, and I was really good at selling and dealing with employees. I don't think my college time did anything for that, growing up did, and doing it and learning what worked and what didn't.
You don't need college to be a great photographer, but you do need some life lessons and a knowledge of running a business and basic accounting. Back in my day that likely meant some college classes, today all of it can be learned on RUclips for free. I was pre internet, my business was pre internet and then also during the early internet days.
aha - I'm that 40 (well 41) year old degreeless you speak of! I think a HND was the highest I achieved - but honestly, not worth the paper it's printed on. Not unless Flash animation comes back into vogue lol.
Do I regret not having a degree? Maybe. My siblings both have strong degrees in Linguistics and Zoology. Do they use them? Nope. I declared myself self-employed since 26 - In that time, I've been a graphic designer, web developer and general jack of all trades. I did form a limited company back in 2011 and created a reasonably success online store from pretty much zero capital. The stress was huge and I didn't really have the foresight to expand in a way to eliminate that stress - which eventually got the better of me after about 4 years.
I sometimes wonder if I'm leaving this all too late. If I'm too long in the tooth - especially when I see videos about getting professional being a 10 year process. However, as a little anecdote, I will always remember one of my first web clients in London. She was mid 60s - never ran a business before, not particularly rich. But she started a business in a niche market and caught it at the right time. It made her millions.
So it's never too late to learn, and never too late to put your life in a different direction and follow your dreams.
Nottingham to London for me, everything you say is sound advice. I was on a 5 year vocational degree. The first year they wanted to get rid of the folk who wouldn't make it, it was tough. Then 4 years of life changing experiences and to be honest fun. You need the space away from your parents to properly grow up in a safe environment. It is not so easy now, I came from a poor background and social mobility was encouraged. The big shock was that half the people on my course were from public school.
I'm also Dyslexic. This story is similar to mine. Learning how to learn and failing during it informed how I went forward in life. Thanks for sharing this Scott. Nice to know I am in good company.
I have done studies in horticulture and security industry but not photography. I feel my photography journey is one I need to self explore and let my brain just run in any direction while shooting finding different weird and wonderful compositions and poses. I think study helps with photography to learn how to use a camera what lenses do to objects at different focal lengths and more. Color theory is another big one to wrap ones head around. photography is a industry that one will never stop learning. I think it's really the hardest industry to get into
I never went to university, I joined the RAF at 18, but gained HND and then Degree in Aeronautical Engineering through my career. It’s only now as I enter my fifth decade on this earth that I have time to dedicate to things I thoroughly enjoy, I now have my own Studio/Mancave that allows me the time & space to experiment in whichever genre I choose.
Bachelor's degree in history. I think something to keep in mind is that finishing a degree gives you two things. 1) a commitment to learning. 2) learning to learn.
I will NEVER know all that there is to photography. It's simply not possible. But its not just about what you learn, it's learning to learn.
Science Master's from the U.K., PhD from the U.S.. I think we had similar upbringing. Agree with learning how to learn, and would add learning how not to quit under pressure, and learning how to communicate and work deeply with a lot of very different types of people.
I remember working with academics during the day, and working at a bar on the Liverpool docks in the evenings. Not sure which shaped me more.
There are many ways to experience life successfully, but this video is a really interesting insight.
Well, this subject changes a LOT depending on where you live. Here, in Brazil, getting a degree is mostly a life long debt (considering you're a regular person, who need a loan and can't afford to just pay it regularly). The only way of living outside of your parents house, while going to university, is if your parents are rich (or you got into one of the highly competitive federal universities). I'm 24 now and, despite being one of that "first of the class" kids in school, I had chosed to avoid it, at least at the moment. Considering how expensive this is and how little experience a 18ish have, I think the best thing to do is just work on whatever you can after highschool, for at least a year. This helps to better understand what the hell do you really want, and then pursuit it. Of course, I did know what to pursuit after school and had a pretty decent financial education from my parents, I learned how to manage my shit on my own with them, but a degree won't do sheit about this for you here. Also, now I have 7 years of proper work, while my friends who did got to the college are just starting out (and most of them got a debt to study something they don't even want to work with). Anyways, what works for some, may not work for the other.
Always hated school, was barely present in 8th and 9th grade. Instead i was smoking weed and playing guitar in various metal bands. It was not until i got into a construction / project manager school after military i liked studies. Got very good grades and a great job afterwards. Photography is what I do to relax in the norwegian forests after work or in the weekends. Got into it in 2019 and bought my first proper camera this summer. Its so fun and i really wish i could do that and music full time but thats only a dream.
I went, did two years studying k-6 (love children). Best years of my life till this day. But I didn't finish. I have dibilitating ADHD(hoping to get medication for it soon) it made it impossible to do anything that I didn't have any interest in just for money(which is luxury i find neurotypicals can afford). Now just turned 24, starting to build my product photography business. Had a fine art portrait business fail. God gave me this after covid. I'm not particularly good with people, though they seem to like me. I'm socially awkward, so product photography is just heaven for me. I'm getting projects no less than a 1000 and I'm okay with it for now. I hope to do better and get better. So now I'm just a sponge. Willing and ready to learn, to change and make the right decisions to be where I want to be in the future. My dream brand to work with in 5 years (when I get good) would be Leneige. Don't think it's going to happen but I can dream.
Thank you for this video Scott - I am incredibly dyslexic and was really against going to University for quite a while due to the workload and struggling to keep focused in a educational environment. I left A-levels and an Art Diploma at 21 a little naive and tried to establish my Photography business and instantly failed and couldn't get the work or wasn't taken seriously in the industry.
I hit a mental road block and decided my best option was to try get a trade or a skill to full back on. I went and did a City and Guilds L2 in Electrical Installation which I don't regret at all because its helped me with my DIY and practical skill with on set electric and set building.
But still throughout the course I knew deep down I wanted to focus on my photography. After completing the course I decided maybe University was my best option to enhance my knowledge of Photography and gain access into the industry through the University's contacts.
I worked a temporary job at a theatre as I had an interest in lighting and set building saved some money and enrolled on too a BA at Middlesex in Photography - They were fantastic in supporting my dyslexia and building my confidence in myself again and overall the facilities, lectures and technicians where all brilliant. In the second year I managed to gain some work with Tim Flach (my Specialty is animal/pet photography) which was fantastic and as you have said many times assisting a photographer is an incredible way of networking and learning the industry.
After graduating, I have now set up my own Studio - Last year in the middle of the pandemic it really hasn't been easy and I have had a few very slow months with scary overheads but I love what I do - I would love to do one of your 1 to 1 sessions and have your insight into how I can move forward. As things have been tough theses last few months and being a small new business isn't easy.
Thanks for the great advice. I didn't have the opportunity to go to university but always loved learning, so I still try to learn as much as possible to improve my life and talents.
This video is incredible well timed for me as I'm 18 and a couple of weeks from now I'm starting university. It is in a field different to photography and I can't see myself working that but nonetheless I think it would be an excellent experience. In my country and in my region in particular the barrier to entry in photography is considerably low. A photographer in my area had taken me with him to a couple of weddings for me to learn and see how he does things. After him seeing what I can do and that I'm somewhat competent (as competent as an unexperienced 18 year old photographer can be) he had recommended me to do some jobs on my own. A week ago I was strapped to the edge of a bridge photographing bunji jumps. I got this job mostly because nobody else would wanna do it considering the low payment but opportunities like this one are everything for me at the moment. Apart from that your videos are truly inspirational to me, they make me wanna create the best photographs I can and as you would say not just pretty pictures. For now there will be a lot of pretty pictures because it's incredibly hard to make something amazing. There will be even more not so pretty pictures but I do like the journey and I will keep on photographing.
Totally agree that you should try taking any small jobs you can for now, especially that one with bunji jumpers sounds really fun! Just make sure you consistently increase your prices at a comparable level with others in your area, even if it's just asking for an extra $50-100 for a shoot every 3-6 months. A rule I heard once is that if every client is saying no to your prices, you're probably charging too much for your skill/quality. If every client is saying yes to your prices, you're probably not charging enough! It's ok to get turned down every so often but getting that early income helps a lot with upgrading your camera gear and investing in education/other equipment.
The idea of being strapped to a Bridge sends shivers down my spine, as I am terrified of heights but hats off to you, sounds like such an incredible experience. As Chris has said below taking those small jobs here and there whilst they might not always be the photography you want to be shooting, they are a great way to build your skills, confidence and get your name out there and you never know what might come from those small jobs. - Good luck with your course !
I've got a Bachelor of Design to my name. Never really put those tangible skills to use as I became a Copywriter the day after I graduated. But the intangible skills, social skills, learning skills everything you talked about here, priceless. I doubt I'd be a Photographer today without that degree and the decade as an Advertising Creative. Another great vid.
I have a medical degree in the United States which means 4 years of college,another 4 years of medical school followed by 4 years of residency training. No regrets. I never really thought about it or realized it until I watched your video, but yea I’ve learned how to learn things rapidly. Not only that my career as a physician affords me the opportunity to have a stress free career as a photographer. I have the financial freedom to shoot what I want, when I want and who I want to work with. Small world, my grandparents and mom grew up in Leicester
I started my photography career at 18 yrs old, did not go to get a degree. Straight out of High School I went straight into the US Army... and worked my chosen field. Combat Photographer and Photojournalist. There are pros and cons to going either way with a degree.... a degree can give you life long contacts. But speaking strictly to photography, either your bent to it or your not, you have the eye or you don't.
Thanks for the video but here in the U.S. your take on things would be outdated. Universities do not prepare students for the real world. They graduate students who are brainless, timid and extremely entitled. Degree in hand they can go out and fight for an unpaid internship. Yes, you make contacts that can be useful for life. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money.
A. Einstein said "Education is all you have after forgetting all the facts". My friends who went to university have one thing in common, they are all disciplined thinkers. Few of them worked in their chosen fields of study.
this was cool. I started my career too young, 19, because I assisted a famous photographer. I was in over my head sooo many times. I lost my business after a couple of years but got a restart at 25 after living abroad which made me grow up. Two things make you grow up. Move out of the country or fail at your business. The famous photographers I worked for btw was Susan Einstein (grand daughter of Albert) and also Bruce Ayers (Vogue). When I restarted my career, I assisted the great Mizuno (Sports Illustrated/Playboy USA) who guided me and helped me find my feet. I think it's amazing that you give guidance to so many here on RUclips. This is much better than most RUclipsrs who are trying to sell presets and gear.
After a one year computer operator certification program at community college, I got my first job as a … computer operator, circa. 1976. Took night classes off and on for the next 25 years in a steadily advancing, lucrative IT career (but still no degree).
Then chucked it all and opened a new age bookstore for the next 5 years.
THEN, went back to school full time in my mid-50s.
• B.S. in Sustainable Living and Environmental Studies, 2012.
• B.S. in Media & Communications, 2013.
• M.A. in Film Studies, 2014.
Maybe someday someone will hire me to shoot food photos. I’d like that. I’m really good with sweeping floors and rolling cables and organizing stuff. Best part of film school was learning set etiquette and production crew basics
I’m a photographer I did not go to college for photography but instead computer science as I plan on taking over my fathers computer forensics business. Doing the job you travel a lot, I have chose photography as my side job. My hobby, and although I consider it a side job or a hobby, I take it just as serious as my regular job as a forensic analyst if anything more serious.
Watching my father grow his own company, I learned how to run a business and am still learning. But with that being said, I learn from experience, I learn from RUclips, I learn from masterclasses, and peoples workshops. I didn’t choose photography as a degree is because a variable of reasons, starting out income is very unstable unless you hire on at a company. Instead I do forensics and build what I have with what I have having the best of both worlds.
Hi Scott, I have a Bachelor's degree from the 80s. When I changed career I went back to college to study photography and got a Pearson's BTec Diploma 2019 - got accepted by all the universities I applied to. However, I couldn't get funding for another bachelor's degree so... I'm trying to start-up a dog photography business and then I'll apply for an MA later when I have a reasonable portfolio. Thanks Scott.
I don’t have a degree. My teens and 20s were spent trying to live. I grew up poor and couldn’t afford my first dslr camera till I was 28. I have spent the last few years learning about photography and photographers. All as a hobby. When I got married I spent time helping my wife go to school so she could get a degree. It worked out for us. We have a house cars paid off and now in my late 30s starting to do the things I couldn’t afford to when I should have been in school.
I have a BSc in Zoology and BScPharm. The stress of pharmacy and a long concussion burnt me out fast. I am now transitioning into photo/video work. In retrospect I should have gotten into something creative from the start, but my science degrees help me understand how the world works, which I think has helped me understand and grasp camera technology and photography/video concepts quicker than without it. Additionally, some philosophy courses I took in university have helped me on a personal level with finding/making your own meaning in life, which helps fulfill WHY I want to do photography and video work.
I've taught at private and state universities in the states for years and couldn't agree with you less. Way too many students get student loans and ware $100,000 in debt but can't find a job when they graduate. Universities don't drive a business education for opening your own shop, and most fail. Instead, find a good mentor in a working studio or business, stay motivated and interested having a sense of curiosity every day, and work you ass off. When you are ready, step out on your own. Degrees in photography are self-limiting. And, yes, I have a graduate degree.
I spent 3 years at a top university, 2 years of Astrophysics, and 1 year of Electronic and Electrical Engineering.
I didn't finish either course, and very much did not enjoy being a student. I was getting paid for photo work and teaching fitness classes at gyms while studying. I eventually realised I enjoyed my work much more than my studies. So I left and now have a photography company and a fitness company.
Also, I very much regret choosing possibly the hardest degree option. It was a lot of work and first year DID count. It was 30 hours of contact time per week and about 10 hours of homework. It's amazing to hear how most other courses are just dossing off. So it's very sad that 'a degree' is just seen as 'a degree'. Someone with a masters in astrophysics is not equally as qualified as someone with a masters in English, for example. I had many friends studying English and they had about 3 contact hours per week.
Definitely agree on the value of a university experience. I did mine and then started in my chosen career in an entirely different field. Learning some life skills and how to learn was the most important bit.
I have a degree in zoology, but it has helped in understanding animal behaviour which helps with wildlife photography which is my passion.
Yup totally agree. I went to University for ages and only managed to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree although I probably have enough credits for a doctorate. I was young and stupid but not so stupid as to think I didn't need higher education to learn how to learn and also to learn how to deal with other human beings! I certainly feel as though all my years at University kept me from making dumb mistakes when I entered the workforce. So when I finally left academia I hit the ground running. Never once have I been asked what my degree is in. Although I love to toss out that little titbit at my current job since I am lead software developer and my degree in fine art with a concentration in watercolor painting always gets a laugh! I'll never forget my first real job after getting out of University. All the way down in the big city (Boston) and the guy that got me the job gave me one bit of advice. He said don't hit on the art director (the woman who was my boss). And I know for a fact that if I had been at that job a few years earlier and she asked me to go out for lunch I would have been all hitting on her in a heartbeat! I know this is a silly example but I honestly don't think I was mature enough to have been able to deal with that situation prior to spending all those years in college. And that one job was pivotal in my early career development. That one job got me many jobs and if I had messed it up I am sure I would have ended up as a sales clerk in an art supply shop!
I went University for Photography back in the 90's , I wished I had taken something else , it was basically assignment filling. You earn how to be Artsy , Fartsy, not how to make an income from photography.
I‘m a commercial photographer and I have a master degree, but it‘s in film, not photography. It still helped to get into the matter
Great video and a interesting topic. My opinion is that going to a university (especially in another city) for most young people @18 years old is the first steps of becoming independent, and making lifelong connections and networking that will help you along the way as a professional in any domain.
Thanks a lot for this video. I was curious to hear your considerations on this topic. I graduated in law and got a job in what is supposed to be a related area. With my partner, who graduated in economics, we try to build a studio to finally put our shared passion in the centre of our lives. The collateral skills, aside from the photography, are definitely a huge bonus that speeds up the learning curve and, what's maybe more important, protects the business and our freedom with it. We are both 29, so we consider ourselves grown enough to hold responsibility and young enough to afford perseverance. Some graduation may help more than others, but at the end of the day, the person you are and your ability to filter priorities are what makes the difference, and that's a skill every University path offers. Given the same skill in photography, chances are that a person who graduated in graphic design with a basic understanding of licensing or privacy will run a good photography business as much as a lawyer with a sensibility for design.
People who say "I DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE and LOOK at me, Family, 20 kids and a paid off house" shouldn't be leaving comments. Because it's leaving a false perspective on how the world works. The world is about opportunities and how to get those opportunities. College creates more opportunities so the probability of becoming successful greatly increase with a education and the college is able to help find a job. I found my first design job from going to college, the skills I needed sharpened with trial and error. Learning from my classmates and of course my teachers insight to help me understand it on a personal level to what I needed to succeed.The courses helped build my confidence for me and the confidence in my first employer. I was well equipped to deal with the real world and til this day, 17 years later I still remember the lessons college taught me.
I was particularly interested in this question. I googled it and I think you pretty much answered it. What did the degree do for you? Did you learn to be a better photographer? Or did you already have an 'artist's eye'? Did you just aquire a degree, based on the uni syllabus, or did it teach you the things which you now apply to your photography?
As a 56 year old, married, white male, in the UK, I am counting down to retirement and am settled and therefore highly unlikely to start any form of professional photography business. I simply don't have the opportunity, away from the house, to shoot and improve. I have the imagination of a conceptual artist but not the practical skills to pull it off. My retouching knowledge is basic and my inclination, effort and commitment toward travelling and improvement are sadly non-existent.
I picked up a dslr in 2015, following the disappointment of having commissioned a friend, who (I understood) was an amateur hobbyist photographer and (I understood) could take a good picture (on the cheap), to shoot my wedding! Disaster!
Subsequently, Ive pored over 8 years worth of RUclips videos; bought a couple of grand's worth of erroneous gear and have done 30-odd glamour photography shoots (because, let's face it, it's more fun than photographing still-life) but due to a deeply-rooted inferiority complex, I am still barely any further forward. Ive learned many technical lessons, from the TV, I'm sure but I just stress out and fail to apply the knowledge on-site.
The only thing I can still take away from my photography is any improvement in my 'keeper rate'. The internet has provided the worst environment for and overly-self-critical person. I have become so aware of the need to try NOT to compare myself to other more skilled photographers and retouchers.
Im aware of my limitations and am less concerned nowadays about the issues but it was interesting to watch your video perspective. Thanks and keep doing what you do.
Excellent video and topic!! I hope enough young people watch this video and take you up on your advice.
Although I was too poor to attend university right out of secondary school, I joined the U.S. Navy at age 17 where I was able to attend night classes at a local university.
Unlike classroom studies, the Navy taught me many of the life skills I needed and helped me avoid many of pitfalls my peers experienced in their youth. Best of all, the Navy brought me too Japan where I had to learn everything all over again just to function as a literate adult in another language and culture, albeit easier with some maturity under my belt.
Navy life is not the same as university for sure, but I think a good option for young folks depending on the kind of job.
Agree. I gained so much self-confidence at university, realized I can solve almost any problem if I decide to do it, learned to use literature (yes, internet was hardly accessible at that time, early 90's), learn to memorize lots of details and how to approach to a problem. I started professional photography after two jobs, in my mid-30's, I'm 50 now, living quite good of photography (weddings, portraits and mid-level product photography in my studio). My wife was scared but really supportive when I decided to go pro full-time. 15 years later - it was my best decision ever, except marrying her 🙂Best wishes!
I went to university to do graphic design. Useful bit of education on so many levels. Photography was part of that but was never a career choice. Now I’m doing both at 62 and looking forward to continuing well after retiring from my lecturing job at university. My work has been a constant thread throughout my life. Now I teach those 18-24 year old kids, and mostly I try to shape their thinking to take advantage of their youth and their position in life. The education I want to give is specific to a subject, yet applicable to so many other fields, and that will give them the freedom to experiment and use their time at university to explore and make mistakes. I hope I succeed in this.
I did not feel capable of making a life long affecting decision at 18! So I didn't ...and I didn't go to Uni with all my friends. I obviously realise that not feeling capable of a decision WAS a decision! I some times regret it but usually don't, I might have turned out very different and I have since found my way of learning and my appreciation for it, just a bit delayed. Have taken up various courses in the pursuit and photography being the most long lasting...got some nice work but not enough for full time by any means. The focus hasn't been enough, maybe Uni could have been that lesson in focus...who knows...but here we are 20 years later and still enjoying learning and growing at least. I feel a lot of folks have already become settled in their ways by now...stuck perhaps, I threw myself off a 5ft skate ramp for the first time last week, terrifying but part of learning.
Your journey is similar to mine, Biology Degree, Masters and Post Grad Diploma. I now work in print media, where you have to learn fast, think on your feet and be able to Listen and Process info very quickly. Those skills became second nature after studying at Uni. Now I think nothing of putting in the hours to get a job done.
Photography is an art it is an emotion no school can really teach you that, But for you as a person going to school teaches you how to look how to question and how to find that inner artist. And the first thing youll learn in the world is that people tell you you dont need the rules learn to break them, But how can you learn to break thee rules if you dont know the rules.
Hi Scott, I'm in Australia and I currently have a Certificate 111 in Visual Arts (Photography) a Diploma in Photography and Photo Imaging and now studdying in a Degree in Professional Photography in Melbourne, whilst I live in Ballarat in Regional Victoria. I decided to do this as I wanted to learn about using a Camera and create the images I wanted to. As I started learning in really liked it and loved the techniques and the creativity, therefore I wanted more and felt that a Degree in Professional Photography would set me apart from most protographers and I really like learning everything and want more every day. Thank you for yout tutorials as they are really great advise and you have given many things to really take into account. Please keep them up and thank you.
I took a photography class in high school back in the late 70s. To be honest, I was pretty wasted for most of it. And photography wasn't in my path. (To be honest, nothing specific was in my path.) I joined the Army and learned radios. Radios morphed into computers and I've made a lot of money in computers over the last 40 years. I really wish I had pursued photography. I shot motorcycles for about 8 years and did pretty well. I got in some magazines and a cover or two. No money. I decided I wanted to do this professionally and possibly had the chops. (The jury is still out ;-) ) But it was hard figuring out what photography I could believe in enough to sell. I don't by photos for my walls so how do I convince someone else to?? I had a friend who was an actress and traveling to Atlanta for headshots because, reportedly, no one in Charleston knew how to shoot industry-standard actor headshots. And I saw an opportunity to help others pursue their goals with my photography.. and make some money. It's been love ever since. Now.. with that as background.. I looked at photography courses and they were pretty pricey. If I was a young guy and it was an investment in my life, it might be reasonable (even here in the States). But.. I've got 10.. 20 years left to do this? Maybe? And I wonder how much they would teach me that I don't already know. (Maybe I could teach some of the classes. LOL) Now.. I DO think it would be interesting to go through the exercise. I'm sure I don't know everything they'd teach me. And, quite honestly, just being engaged and shooting more would likely be good. But.. it's a lot of money at this stage in my life. (Although, I'll be kinda ticked off if I'm shooting in 20 years and thinking, "Man, I shoulda gone to college".
I’m 52 and just signed up for a degree in photography, with plans to go for a masters. I have two bachelor degrees (logistics, and business management) and im 100% retired with substantial savings and investment income.
I think going back to college will help me become exposed to more skills, while also teaching me what i dont know that i should know.
I am currently 19 and getting my degree in Photography summer next year at the Higher Graphical College in Vienna. I had not to pay for the education and I am really grateful for living in Austria. Also I am free to go study at Universities in Austria with the Diploma I take. The 5 Years helped me personally develop a lot of social skills along with huge insight at the most different views on photography due to the many teachers I had. I think you would fit in there really well with your way of teaching people about photography.
I couldn’t agree more with the message of this video. Brilliant message that I wish I had heard when I was 18 and reminded about at 24/25🤷♂️
I am 56 years old and have just gone back to college to study photography. I agree with you that at my age it's unnecessary, but I have been going to college off and on with myriad interruptions my whole adult life. I want to finish and get a degree for, if nothing else, as the culmination of all the effort I've expended over the years. And it's fun. I'm learning a lot, more than I thought I would and I find that process very enjoyable. My goal has always been to remain intellectually curious and seek out information on anything that interests me. College is just a more structured way to do that. Do I need college or a degree? Absolutely not, especially at my age. But I want it.
Very good advice. I have also advise people who migrate to a new country to do a university degree in their new country of residence. It helps enormously to get in sync with cultural rhythm, find friends and assimilate
I showed this video to my daughter, she starts uni on Saturday.
I have a bachelor's degree in Business Administration. Worked for government and private companies. During pandemic, I became a photographer.
Started my BA photography degree at 32 years old... Decided I didn't want to work in the hospitality industry until I retired. 100% would've dropped out if I went straight from school. Uni didn't teach me anything technical but it did help me to think in a creative way and has opened some doors for me. Now in my second year of being a full time freelancer... Pretty sure I would be in the same position if I would have just approached local photographers for assisting experience etc. but I'm glad I went non the less as I always regretted never going to uni. I do feel that the emphasis is always on 'young' people going to uni but as a mature student entering the world of commercial photography, I have no regrets going.
Photographer. Degrees in Drama & Film Studies. Teaching. Photography. All of which are about engaging people.
I got a PhD in robotics and work for a big robotics company in R&D. I do photography for fun on the side, with some payed jobs here and there.
I honestly don’t think anything from my degrees translates to photography, it’s just completely different. Which is why I like doing it in my free time. It’s a great way to tingle other senses and abilities that I don’t need for my real job.
left school with nothing - I am 61 and have just finished an MFA in photography at UCA (distinction) after completing a BA photography (1st class) - five years of non stop full time education life long learning.
An interesting video. BASc, EE, U of Waterloo (near Toronto), Class of 1971. My experience was a tad different from yours. At the time, Waterloo was said to be the largest employer of Cambridge grads, other than Cambridge itself. It was a brutally hard course, and there were no unintelligent students. School for 4 months, work term for 4 months, repeat for 5 calendar years. Best thing I ever did, had a great career, photography was a hobby, still is. Last assignment was in South Africa for 18 months where I got great photographic opportunities. Happy for your success and enjoy your channel.
I made the choice to not go to University and use those three years to give photography a try. While my friends were getting into debt I was making money (all be it not much). In those three years I learnt more than I ever could have at University, I am not academic in any way. I did however do a Btec in Art and Design, which on reflection I had fantastic tutors which played a huge role in the way I think about things.
I don't have a photography degree. I started out photography about 3 years ago as a hobby, but because of covid I was not able to work in my main work thats why I started my photography business.
I had a thought to go to school and study, but I talked with friends who have photography degree and they still struggle to earn enough.
I agree. I was always business oriented, until my last semester in high school when Kodachrome became my favorite song. BUT I'd already been accepted for accounting so I ventured off while setting aside photography for 20 years. There seemed to be a lot of gatekeeping 20 years ago plus digital was in it's infancy.
Having a degree helps you in many ways, depending where you go it opens your view of the world and cultures if you're not adventurous or were sheltered growing up.
I have a graphic design degree with honors and I’m self taught as a photographer. Graduated in 2004, nobody has ever asked to see my certificate. Money well spent!
I purely in love with photography, since my college days, but there's no photography class available here in Philippines so i don't have a degree, i purely learned everything thru RUclips tutorials.
Been a photographer for 20+ years. No degree, just went to school and got my degree in Cyber Sec.