I'm really impressed with this HasHe player. Just really solid all around play, always a step ahead, great responses to bad situations and some impressive comebacks. Doesn't do anything weird, just wins on fundamentals.
terran use of those ghosts was great, those EMP's really helped the tanks do the splash damage needed to obliterate the protoss army in like 5 seconds.
Second battle: Protoss moved into the terran. Siege tanks fired, the phoenix's moved ahead, overextending themselves to lift off what tanks they could and began to take fire from the marines. Briefly after attacking one emp went off, cutting one half of the army's durability, in half. phoenix's dying began to return tanks to the fray. Another emp went off, the phoenix's are almost all gone, and the tanks mop up. I suspect if emp wasn't so powerful, the battle would have been closer.
The reason he was constantly chronoboosting his gateway early on was to have enough units to do a 1gate expand. And yes, chrono boost also helps on warpgates. And yes, tanks + emp rape toss ground :p
Second Battle: Terran moves in with infantry. Stims at left Protoss flank. Focuses 1 of 2 collosi - it is down to half hp. Protoss retreats gateway units. Terran tanks in back siege up. Terran infantry scoots & shoots, forcing zlots to eat damage in front of the collosi. Stalkers and sentries shoot from back, with both collosi. It is even - tanks aren't in range yet. Infantry scoots back near tanks - phoenixes move in to lift tanks - they get intercepted by vikings! EMP + tanks land cleans up.
a lot stemmed from him going for the high yield when he was unable to hold it, also when the banshees took out his workers that did a huge blow to his mineral rate. still collusus wrong unit comp againt viking tank some void rays or carriers might have helped a bit.
@1000travis That's always true. I simply meant that Zerg requires quite a bit of micro if your opponent is microing their units well, you can't just run banelings into an opponent without thinking about it.
That was a good game. I think the Terran won the second battle because he lifted the tanks before his army was in range to attack. Once the tanks were back on the ground they could hit the protoss army with the rest of the terran forces.
Generally Protoss only chrono boosts Zealots if they want to do early pressure. Otherwise, it's usually better to chrono boost probes and warp gate technology. Boosting a stalker when your opponents pesky scouting worker is there is also common and useful.
No charge on the zealots, which you need to have tank splash onto the marines. Also, tanks are rather OP with a critical number (I'd say 4-5) due to frontloaded damage (damage before actual engagement), so imo the toss really needed something that hardcounters tank viking like collosi+mass blinkstalker or possibly carriers (something unexpected).
Ps - he also didn't have enough sentries. Sentries to prevent kiting, and let the zealots charge in. Charge is really a staple by mid-game against terran.
@chazstahs yes, it requires the least apm to use EFFICIENTLY. key word that i didnt add last time, since it requires the least apm to both macro and micro the "core" units. Im not saying that zerg players WILL have lower apm, its just easier if you have really low apm, since you can bind all your production structures to the same key and then press and hold the same key. Im not flaming Zergs, its just a fact (under around 100 is seriously low)
the most problem is the zealot does not have charge, because MMM ball or tank will own zealots so fast, because without charge they walk in a huge group (ball), which gives tanks the maximal damage, and also the zealot in the back wouldn't be able to attack before the one in the front dies. That is the only problem in PvT without charge.
@RokushoCom I don't think he was talking immortals to COUNTER vikings, I think he was probably saying that colossi aren't as effective, so more immortals to supplement the lack of colossi
@BTape yeah, when i play zerg, if i have banelings in my composition, i engage out in the open with my main army and send my banelings around the back, absolutely destroys.
Matrix lost that engagement because he had poor unit composition against the terran army. He was heavy in tanks and marauders, and colossi/stalker sucks against both. He really needed charge to counter the conc shells for that push to even have a prayer. It's a tricky balancing act for toss because Rauders own most toss units except for immortals and lots. Immortals are the real counter, but they get negated by a single EMP. That's why HuK mixed in Vrays so much pre-nerf.
@GodofCider You forgot to mention the vikings. That's what won the battle. The phoenixes went ahead as soon as the tanks started firing, because they do high area dps. They were killed immediately though because vikings stayed back and focused them, rather than going ahead and chasing the half-hp collosus that the infantry stimmed against. The tanks landed because the phoenixes died, and owned, along with 2 decent EMPS (not perfect, decent). The EMPs were not the biggest factor.
@theyWantedblood Yes, briefly after posting I realized I not only lacked room to include them, but neglected to do so altogether. That said, phoenix's remained well into the end of the battle, one even managed to retreat on the right (although I am unable to recall if it escapes successfully). The emp's however, instantly cut the entire remainder of the armies durability roughly in half; those missing shields would have provided the cushion necessary to eat into most of the remaining tanks.
Think EMP's and not responding to the ghost threat was Matrix issue. Could of went Psi Storm or DT's that last push didn't have a raven present. The Tank push was a good grind and the resource's spent on Phen to uplift them was a bit much I think. It was slow death interesting play though loved it.
@CharinZain EMP dmg is instantaneous, drains energy with splah effect. Feedback only 1 at a time. psy storm does max 80 dmg, can dodge. emp does 100 shield dmg, cant dodge... Also, HT is very slow, cant snipe, cloak, or... NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED!
@BTape i think it requires more macro than anything else, creep spread, larvae inject, worker/army larvae choice. But if you can do that well, zerg pays off big time.
Zealot charge w/ +1 armor > Tanks and marines. Also if marines stim you can kill them w/ 1 psy storm from High temps. While it does not take down the shields of zealots. In other words if you see tank and marines, go charge zealots w/ High Temps and throw a few immorts in there too :D Matrix had wrong comp.
@tredogzs protoss was outplayed imo, he kept the pressure on, with those hellion drops and banshee worker harass, slow push with seige tanks along the map ensured he never lost ground, and constatly reinforced his army with great macro, the emp and the vikings were really just icing on the cake, it was the siege tanks and slow methodically push down the narrow centre of the map that can be exploited by the seige tanks great range that won him this match.
emp is imba imo. Its actually better than psystorm. Storm only does 80dmg over time and cost 200minerals/gas to research. EMP on the other hand does 100damage to Protoss shields instantly, drains all energy from the target, and doesn't need to be researched.
TvP is really lopsided in T's favor right now -- there's not really a strong composition that P can put together that can take out a terran ball of equal resources, save for amazing HT micro. Ghosts are just SOOOO hard for Protoss to deal with. BTW, I play Random, so my perspective is somewhat unique because I know the 3 races better than most players (though admittedly a good player who specializes in their race certainly knows that race better than I do).
@Danellis09 While this is true, I just feel they don't feel they're as strong as they should be in the late game compared to zerg and protoss, this is coming from a zerg player so I'm not whining or anything. For example terran 3-4 base play just seems a lot weaker than protoss 3-4 base play. It's not like a huge glaring weakness since most games against terran don't seem to last that long to me since their advantage I feel is in the mid-game.
He lost the 2nd battle due to lack of firepower imo. Colossi + phoenix means too few gateway support units, and contrary to vikings, phoenix cant really kill much of the T ground, only disable it for a short time. That's fine in a small fight (i.e the first one), but in the big battles with 5+ tanks, the relatively small colossus+ground force got smashed by vikings / MM / tanks. Also, HasHe had great macro imo :p
@Nutriment6464 I never said that Zerg were better, just that terran late game is pretty bad. Macro isn't the problem just the sort of units available, mid-late game they're pretty strong after that not so much. The only person I've really seen do some really solid late game play is Jinro and that's just one guy.
TvP still feels imbalanced to me. If the Protoss wins, it's always hard fought and easy to see what the Protoss did to win (which usually has to involve some kind of cheese). If the Terran wins, he didn't have to do anything; he can just keep throwing his army away to work down the toss army, rebuild using mules, and harass down the toss economy. TvP requires the much more skill on the part of the toss player.
@mybrotherisanaddict ground mode is useless against any kind of ground army. Sure you might be able to sneak in a few worker kills, but they get steamrolled as soon as you attack them (on the ground).
@Zinthar I disagree. no ones favour other than the player itself. I love to face terran cus I now I used to win them a lot. vs zerg on the other hand is much much harder for protoss. I am platinum player by the way.
@twshuman lol, since rines are the counter to immortals then if he had got immortals he still would have lost. It was overall poor unit composition that lost him the game. He needed a lot more stalkers and he would have been fine, since the zeals soak up plenty of damage and allow u to pick off the vikings easily, then its gg when the colossus mow the rest of the ground.
Damn PsY dogg you aint gonna get a game !!! Your comrade might take it out for the clan. Lame actually was looking forward to seeing you play. Oh well at least your clan is winning right.
![SC2 #185 Winhouse[Z] v [P]rsvp](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kfisIb1CQoc/mqdefault.jpg)
![SC2 #185 Winhouse[Z] v [P]rsvp](/img/tr.png)
![SC2 HD #176 Crixus[Z] v [T]Hashe](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A6eY6gBaFYw/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm really impressed with this HasHe player. Just really solid all around play, always a step ahead, great responses to bad situations and some impressive comebacks. Doesn't do anything weird, just wins on fundamentals.
Hashe has some of the smoothest transitions i've ever seen
terran use of those ghosts was great, those EMP's really helped the tanks do the splash damage needed to obliterate the protoss army in like 5 seconds.
Excellent EMP and siege tank placement, this HasHe guy is good.
It's so rare to see such nice usage of EMPs, great game!
psy i love ur honesty when u miss something you apologize some are too arrogant to do that ^^
Psy "doesn't have the best game sense!"
Second battle:
Protoss moved into the terran. Siege tanks fired, the phoenix's moved ahead, overextending themselves to lift off what tanks they could and began to take fire from the marines. Briefly after attacking one emp went off, cutting one half of the army's durability, in half. phoenix's dying began to return tanks to the fray. Another emp went off, the phoenix's are almost all gone, and the tanks mop up.
I suspect if emp wasn't so powerful, the battle would have been closer.
Finally a Protoss-Game.
Yay psy, you choose the right side! Protoss ftw !
Cool. Psy and Crota are in the same 3v3 random league.
The reason he was constantly chronoboosting his gateway early on was to have enough units to do a 1gate expand. And yes, chrono boost also helps on warpgates. And yes, tanks + emp rape toss ground :p
Second Battle:
Terran moves in with infantry. Stims at left Protoss flank. Focuses 1 of 2 collosi - it is down to half hp. Protoss retreats gateway units. Terran tanks in back siege up. Terran infantry scoots & shoots, forcing zlots to eat damage in front of the collosi. Stalkers and sentries shoot from back, with both collosi. It is even - tanks aren't in range yet. Infantry scoots back near tanks - phoenixes move in to lift tanks - they get intercepted by vikings! EMP + tanks land cleans up.
Epic Rage Burp @ 2:02
1 word ... zelot charge
You are my favorite caster, bro!!!! Well, you and Husky)))) You are awesome, bros!!!!
3:45 you almost gave me a hear attack
a lot stemmed from him going for the high yield when he was unable to hold it, also when the banshees took out his workers that did a huge blow to his mineral rate. still collusus wrong unit comp againt viking tank some void rays or carriers might have helped a bit.
@1000travis That's always true. I simply meant that Zerg requires quite a bit of micro if your opponent is microing their units well, you can't just run banelings into an opponent without thinking about it.
hey you hear that?! Psy said 'burrrlap'!
That was a good game. I think the Terran won the second battle because he lifted the tanks before his army was in range to attack. Once the tanks were back on the ground they could hit the protoss army with the rest of the terran forces.
this is what happened: he got owned!!!!
Generally Protoss only chrono boosts Zealots if they want to do early pressure. Otherwise, it's usually better to chrono boost probes and warp gate technology. Boosting a stalker when your opponents pesky scouting worker is there is also common and useful.
HasHe too good
Like the new logo/whatever you call it on the right.
I think the battle at 12:00 was also decided because Matrix was really focused on microing his phoenix, so had less time for the rest.
No charge on the zealots, which you need to have tank splash onto the marines. Also, tanks are rather OP with a critical number (I'd say 4-5) due to frontloaded damage (damage before actual engagement), so imo the toss really needed something that hardcounters tank viking like collosi+mass blinkstalker or possibly carriers (something unexpected).
HOLY CHECK!
That was a good game, Hashbrown ftw
OMG i was so so waiting for this ... yay its here :)
PsY > studying for finals oh yea
String terran. :0
at 11:57 the protoss army looked very zealot heavy and during the battle the viking pretty much annihilated the phoenix count.
Ps - he also didn't have enough sentries. Sentries to prevent kiting, and let the zealots charge in. Charge is really a staple by mid-game against terran.
That burp was kind of hot...
@chazstahs yes, it requires the least apm to use EFFICIENTLY. key word that i didnt add last time, since it requires the least apm to both macro and micro the "core" units. Im not saying that zerg players WILL have lower apm, its just easier if you have really low apm, since you can bind all your production structures to the same key and then press and hold the same key. Im not flaming Zergs, its just a fact (under around 100 is seriously low)
the most problem is the zealot does not have charge, because MMM ball or tank will own zealots so fast, because without charge they walk in a huge group (ball), which gives tanks the maximal damage, and also the zealot in the back wouldn't be able to attack before the one in the front dies. That is the only problem in PvT without charge.
I love obscene PsY ^^
@OwenMadaeen yes they do still heal them, since kswolf is gonna answer you like a child when your meaning was obvious.
@RokushoCom I don't think he was talking immortals to COUNTER vikings, I think he was probably saying that colossi aren't as effective, so more immortals to supplement the lack of colossi
@BTape yeah, when i play zerg, if i have banelings in my composition, i engage out in the open with my main army and send my banelings around the back, absolutely destroys.
Matrix lost that engagement because he had poor unit composition against the terran army. He was heavy in tanks and marauders, and colossi/stalker sucks against both. He really needed charge to counter the conc shells for that push to even have a prayer.
It's a tricky balancing act for toss because Rauders own most toss units except for immortals and lots. Immortals are the real counter, but they get negated by a single EMP. That's why HuK mixed in Vrays so much pre-nerf.
@GodofCider
You forgot to mention the vikings. That's what won the battle. The phoenixes went ahead as soon as the tanks started firing, because they do high area dps. They were killed immediately though because vikings stayed back and focused them, rather than going ahead and chasing the half-hp collosus that the infantry stimmed against. The tanks landed because the phoenixes died, and owned, along with 2 decent EMPS (not perfect, decent). The EMPs were not the biggest factor.
go eat mai bawls
@twshuman Immortals without hardened shield doesnt soak up damage... They just die trying to get close enough to actually get shots off.
DAMN U PSY SPOILERING THE EPIC CRUSADE OF HASHE )===
just jokin'
Hashe is solid :O
@gamemeld I did, sorry. Uploading Hashe's 3rd match tomorrow.
Hashe is such a fucking beast, goddamn
@theyWantedblood Yes, briefly after posting I realized I not only lacked room to include them, but neglected to do so altogether.
That said, phoenix's remained well into the end of the battle, one even managed to retreat on the right (although I am unable to recall if it escapes successfully). The emp's however, instantly cut the entire remainder of the armies durability roughly in half; those missing shields would have provided the cushion necessary to eat into most of the remaining tanks.
@avinotion duh.... thanks bud :)
"...double *burp* ...damn..."
Psy is "not very knowlegeable at all!"
toss is really missing the reavers
Think EMP's and not responding to the ghost threat was Matrix issue. Could of went Psi Storm or DT's that last push didn't have a raven present. The Tank push was a good grind and the resource's spent on Phen to uplift them was a bit much I think. It was slow death interesting play though loved it.
@CharinZain
EMP dmg is instantaneous, drains energy with splah effect. Feedback only 1 at a time. psy storm does max 80 dmg, can dodge. emp does 100 shield dmg, cant dodge...
Also, HT is very slow, cant snipe, cloak, or...
NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED!
GO GO HASHE!!!
@Redwall If you listen to the video, he's wondering that himself.
TERRAN IS OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!
terran is op
@gamemeld He said so in the little comment thing on the right. Just watch the first 10 seconds again and read the little green bars
Don't be sorry about rewinding - you're 2nd to day9 for giving us ALL of the information of a replay without going and watching it ourselves.
Protoss took third too late and his army was in a really bad spot at the second fight.
warpgates are faster, the cooldown is faster than building the unit, and then w/ %50 faster, warpgates are more efficient
@brettaburger It's called ground mode.
@BTape i think it requires more macro than anything else, creep spread, larvae inject, worker/army larvae choice. But if you can do that well, zerg pays off big time.
@twshuman Yeah, which would makes them useless in this game.
Zealot charge w/ +1 armor > Tanks and marines. Also if marines stim you can kill them w/ 1 psy storm from High temps. While it does not take down the shields of zealots. In other words if you see tank and marines, go charge zealots w/ High Temps and throw a few immorts in there too :D Matrix had wrong comp.
@Nutriment6464 Cause a Zerg can macro up an army in late game in 30 secs but Terran and Protoss can't really afford to loose the colossii ball
@draphin8 So playing Terran increases the life time of my mouse and keyboard... Thanks for the tip!!! :D
omg hash must lose so that we can see psy!!!!!!!!!
@OwenMadaeen i think it can cause i think they can heal mutas and corruptors
pink is the color of winners, lol
I hope Hashe looses soon, so that Psy will play
@tredogzs protoss was outplayed imo, he kept the pressure on, with those hellion drops and banshee worker harass, slow push with seige tanks along the map ensured he never lost ground, and constatly reinforced his army with great macro, the emp and the vikings were really just icing on the cake, it was the siege tanks and slow methodically push down the narrow centre of the map that can be exploited by the seige tanks great range that won him this match.
emp is imba imo. Its actually better than psystorm. Storm only does 80dmg over time and cost 200minerals/gas to research. EMP on the other hand does 100damage to Protoss shields instantly, drains all energy from the target, and doesn't need to be researched.
TvP is really lopsided in T's favor right now -- there's not really a strong composition that P can put together that can take out a terran ball of equal resources, save for amazing HT micro. Ghosts are just SOOOO hard for Protoss to deal with. BTW, I play Random, so my perspective is somewhat unique because I know the 3 races better than most players (though admittedly a good player who specializes in their race certainly knows that race better than I do).
@gmanthebeast1 he's aight, but he is on Psy team, so it is cool he won. I really hope Psy is gonna play as well and he kicks some ashenhole)))
@TheMossad921
i am talking on behalf of the protoss race. Toss have to pull every trick they know to defeat m/m and siege tanks.
IMO, the best players are random.
If the top player is random it means he has mastery of all the races, which is pretty hard to do.
double *burp*, lol
@Danellis09 While this is true, I just feel they don't feel they're as strong as they should be in the late game compared to zerg and protoss, this is coming from a zerg player so I'm not whining or anything. For example terran 3-4 base play just seems a lot weaker than protoss 3-4 base play. It's not like a huge glaring weakness since most games against terran don't seem to last that long to me since their advantage I feel is in the mid-game.
Shiny zealot at 5:16
i tried two Port Banshee/cloak a few times today and its kind of 50/50 i'ts like a base race half the time
He lost the 2nd battle due to lack of firepower imo. Colossi + phoenix means too few gateway support units, and contrary to vikings, phoenix cant really kill much of the T ground, only disable it for a short time. That's fine in a small fight (i.e the first one), but in the big battles with 5+ tanks, the relatively small colossus+ground force got smashed by vikings / MM / tanks.
Also, HasHe had great macro imo :p
@Nutriment6464 I never said that Zerg were better, just that terran late game is pretty bad. Macro isn't the problem just the sort of units available, mid-late game they're pretty strong after that not so much. The only person I've really seen do some really solid late game play is Jinro and that's just one guy.
Upload a game of Micro Tournament. I want to see how you will own other players :D
to all you guys blabbing about terran being op: the toss was outmacroed all game. Thats whyy he lost. Period.
Thumbs this up if you think Psy would be max silver as protoss
nurf marine muroder
lol I red Hukies instead of Hashe T.T ... would be super funny if you would cast a game of Husky! :D
TvP still feels imbalanced to me. If the Protoss wins, it's always hard fought and easy to see what the Protoss did to win (which usually has to involve some kind of cheese). If the Terran wins, he didn't have to do anything; he can just keep throwing his army away to work down the toss army, rebuild using mules, and harass down the toss economy.
TvP requires the much more skill on the part of the toss player.
NNOOOO, PSY, DON'T CHANGE TO PROTOSS, you're like the only Zerg player I can get info from other than HD, but he doesn't cast his own games that much.
@mybrotherisanaddict ground mode is useless against any kind of ground army. Sure you might be able to sneak in a few worker kills, but they get steamrolled as soon as you attack them (on the ground).
psy can turn a straight man gay... sigh .... psy... sigh
@Zinthar I disagree. no ones favour other than the player itself. I love to face terran cus I now I used to win them a lot. vs zerg on the other hand is much much harder for protoss. I am platinum player by the way.
@twshuman lol, since rines are the counter to immortals then if he had got immortals he still would have lost. It was overall poor unit composition that lost him the game. He needed a lot more stalkers and he would have been fine, since the zeals soak up plenty of damage and allow u to pick off the vikings easily, then its gg when the colossus mow the rest of the ground.
Hashe is the fuckin man
I'm really rooting for HasHe, but I kinda want him to kinda lose so PsY can play lol
Damn PsY dogg you aint gonna get a game !!! Your comrade might take it out for the clan. Lame actually was looking forward to seeing you play. Oh well at least your clan is winning right.