Extremely good and concise demo of 12.4. I really like that you don't publish immediately after an update drops. Instead you take your time and bring us a high value summary of relevant experiences at an enjoyable pace. Other channels just cover the same roads over and over showing nothing important and because they do it quickly after the update they are not ready to show something meaningful. This way of showing the progress gives value to our time and in return makes the video very entertaining. This is why your sub count grows steadily. You truly have a monopoly on Tesla FSD demos. Keep up the good work.
While I agree that this is probably the best FSD channel, I have to point out that covering the same drives is not a bad thing. The most empirical way to test FSD's progress is to find a really challenging drive, that includes a lot of different challenges, and do it for every version, tracking the differences in performance. There is value in giving more general impressions too, on a general set of drives, but that does not mean the former is bad.
I guess it is being optimized for traffic in my home country India :P there is free real estate on every god damn road there. there is precisely ZERO consideration of lanes.
Your detailed technical approach to these videos and objectivity makes this channel one of the very few if not the only reliable source of FSD updates. I stopped reading any articles or viewing other videos that are just in one camp or the other trying to make a sale or push their views/feelings onto others. Thanks a lot for the content!
saw the shorts but i much prefer these longer videos; as someone without a tesla, it's good to see its evolution EDIT: well, i suppose devolution for you
I want to get the Model 3 Performance in the future. I appreciate the self-driving characteristics however my favorite part is that the car is just so fun. Very simple powertrain, good handling and manageable power all without the need for gasoline
The problem with a improving FSD versions, there are less issues to talk about.... It's only going to get worst from here. Watching it drive or making a video about it will get boring very quickly.
6:12 Proceeding into the intersection keeping your tires straight is the legal thing to do: “You may enter the intersection to prepare for your left turn if the light is green and no other vehicle ahead of you is preparing for a left turn.” This is a direct quotation from the latest edition of the New York State Drivers Manual. This is also the case in California. Stop spreading false information.☹
interesting... in Germany when turning left, you are supposed to drive into the intersection as soon as the light turns green. Obviously you still have to give the right of way to the oncoming traffic, but you are supposed to wait inside the intersection. Obviously if theres already one or two cars waiting within the intersection you have to hold back as well.
Not if there is heavy traffic. Best to wait because you may not be able to make the turn and can be stuck in the middle. Yes you could go after the lights turn red but sometimes you're doing so after the other lights turn green because the others run the light or they themselves are stuck in the middle.
@@DJT125489 I cant see their light anyways, you just drive if the oncoming traffic stops. If they run it idc because I'm not turning before they stop, right? No one stops and then accelerates again to run the light? theres enough time between to make your turn. As I said, as a second+ car you might want to stop and not drive into the intersection, but if you are the first one you are supposed to drive in. You are literally supposed to complete your turn after the light turns red for the oncoming traffic if there is no gap. Wdym they are also stuck in the middle? like who? How would 2 people be "stuck" in a way that they block each other?
I tried FSD 12.3 for two months in Atlanta, GA. The one very annoying thing I didn't like FSD for is city driving. The potholes, manholes covers and sewer grates 2-3" below grade, FSD runs right over them like no ones business. I would drive around to avoid pothole flats or alignment issues. For this reason, I didn't upgrade from EAP to FSD. That and the fact Tesla doesn't allow me to transfer FSD to another Tesla I may buy down the road.
FSD is not for the city of Atlanta. Not with those roads, unfortunately. Dekalb spends money on roads, and Atlanta thinks we are a 3rd world city. I wonder if the mayor drives around the city.
That will be solved eventually, and probably soon. As for the transfer issue, you can use it for $99 a month on any Tesla. What you lose in exchange is the eventual robotaxi revenue.
Just finished my drive with the update, mine doesn’t have this lane change problem but I did see that it did much much more phantom braking. Towards the end in the neighborhood it even sensed like there was a dog on the side of the rode on the grass so it started to brake but it was this upright fallen tree branch. I will say it is definitely more aggressive when driving which is great!
Beautifully sequenced, edited, paced, narrated. As always. Still the best bulletins for FSD by far. Thank you! It's so interesting to see the 'shape' of improvement. For a short while I thought that as it got 'great' FSD videos might become less interesting. But as the improvements become more subtle, and have to be 'spotted' this only serves to reinforce how more human it seems. (To me anyway, if that makes sense). Which is why I appreciate you holding back on the 'nag' update until 12:00 : it feels like an underscore to everything, I get it. All the best to you and yours. And bad luck about all those bleeping lane changes.. ; (
Finally a video that highlights what is better about this build! I've been hearing people say it's better, but no specifics other than the attention monitoring. Thanks!
6:12 - Everything I looked at told me this is wrong in California. Like every other state, proceed into the intersection, wait for a clearing, and move. If you have to wait until it turns red, it isn't running the red light since you're already in the intersection. That's what the CHP told ABC-30 if you search for "Know the Road with the CHP: Do I enter the intersection while making a left turn and waiting for traffic?"
People do that all the time. But it’s not legal. You are never supposed to enter an intersection unless you’re able to complete your movement and exit the intersection. Entering the intersection and sitting in the middle waiting for the light to turn is in no way a legal action. Some states refer to this as “blocking the box”. It doesn’t matter if you’re going straight, turning left or turning right. Cannot legally enter the intersection unless you can also exit at that time.
@@shanedk that’s funny. As per the actual California dmv handbook, it says otherwise. A green traffic signal light means GO. You should still stop for any vehicle, bicyclist, or pedestrian in the intersection. Only proceed if you have enough space without creating a danger to any oncoming vehicle, bicyclist, or pedestrian. Do not enter the intersection if you cannot get completely across before the traffic signal light turns red. As per www.dmv.ca dot gov /portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/
@@shanedk you haven’t looked very hard I guess. One very quick search even here on RUclips finds out that it’s illegal in Washington and Oregon. Several other states as well. Maybe it is in California. Doubtful. But maybe. But clearly it’s illegal in lots of places. Cannot enter any intersection unless you can get through it immediately.
So thankful you finally dropped a video! I watched your videos for months until I bought my first Tesla 3 weeks ago and I’ve checked for any new videos you dropped everyday! Great content!
California Vehicle Code used to state (and I do not believe it's been changed) when making a left turn on a green light, you should move forward toward the middle of the intersection, keep your wheel straight and wait for a safe time to complete the turn. Waiting at the limit line as you did is NOT correct, ever. In fact, the driver(s) behind you will not appreciate it.
That used to be how it was. They changed the laws. You can no longer wait in the middle of the road, you have to stay behind the white line before you make a left on a green light
@@edwardcarrillom In my city you will never get to turn, there is still traffic going up until the red, it's only possible to wait in the intersection until the cars stop, or you and the line of 10 cars behind you will never get to go.
@@edwardcarrillom That means in some cases you and the car behind you will never get to turn. Once you are stepped out the limit line by a bit, you can turn once the opposite lane is clear even when the light just turn red, but in the new law as you mentioned you won’t be able to do that whatsoever and you will get honked on.
Also add that it is VERY dangerous and highly illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection. As far as the left turn and yielding to traffic while pulled into the intersection is concerned I just looked at the law and I am not sure what the other guy is saying, but the law still states you can pull up into the intersection and wait for the opportunity to turn as long as you are not blocking cross traffic and you are not making your left turn before you pull into the intersection.
@@edwardcarrillom How long ago did this change? I don't live in California anymore but visit family and they all still do this. Seems like a weird change, theres plenty of places you'd basically never get to turn if you did this.
When I got 12.4 it was the same as your experience with lane changing. 2 other testers had the same story. All 3 of us did camera recalibration, and afterward, it was 100% fixed. Have you tried recalibration? I didn't recalibrate for any of the prior version 12+ updates. This is the only update I've had to recalibrate for it to settle back down.
That’s immediately where my thought went. I wonder if it’s a bug related to that feature. Setting: Change lanes when you want. Tesla: I took that personally.
My guess: 🤔 12.3 was trained on Tesla employee data & very specific videos that where prescreened by humans for correct driving behavior. Less data but high quality. They were compute constrained. 12.4 was trained on a huge amount of general video pulled from fleet. This would have a mix of good driving behavior and bad. Then, they try to use quantity to weed out the bad driving training data by having the AI consider less frequent maneuvers as anomalous behavior it shouldn’t do. Eventually enough data will be fed through that the good behavior will rise to the top. Unless, humans in general are such bad drivers that fleet data will be useless to train on. 🤔
Data quality is super important! If you feed an AI BAD DATA, It will learn from that bad data! Teslas new aproach seems to be: well lets throw EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink at it, it will work out in the end… seems like that didnt work out the way they wanted…
For some insight, Google 'AlphaGo Zero progression'. The short version is. It originally learned from watching people's games first. After it was good, it played only itself and became unbeatable.
That lane changing frequency is just dangerous. Into merging lanes, in the middle of intersections, almost into passing traffic? I would be calling 911 for a DUI if i saw that in front of me.
Really, really liked your video describing the various scenarios that pose issues for the car - far more useful than the videos that are full of praise. To be honest we need many more such videos, so keep them coming. I have v12.3.6 and have myself observed several scenarios that it does not handle well or at all. Granted, it’s awesome overall, but reporting its pitfalls will help Tesla make it better faster.
Some people like safe, others like assertive, it's very hard to find a good compromise. Eventually you'll be able to choose, but for now they just want to get it work.
I would like to see an entire 30 min drive through a difficult neigborhood in a different Model Y to see if the lane changing issue persists, and to count critical/noncritical interventions. You rock, best FSD channel out there! Take your time, good things take time!
Did you hear that one of the early users of 12.4 had lots of interventions but then recalibrated his cameras and it was much better. 9:54 - The car actually executed a U-Turn!!??
I've researched this regularly repeated "recalibrate your cameras" and can find NOTHING that says it's a good thing to do unless you've crashed the camera somehow. Can you please provide a reference to an official Tesla guidance on recalibrating cameras? TIA
12.3.6 can technically do u-turns - have done a handful successfully for me. It's not good at it though. Sometimes it gives up and bails out, too slow, doesn't turn tight enough, etc.
I had the crazy lane change problem during the free month. It would drive me crazy getting into lanes that were ending soon or seeming to forget that it had a turn coming up and getting in the wrong lane.
Recalibrate your cameras. One of the early employees to get 12.4 mentioned that his experience was erratic until he was advised to recalibrate the cameras. After that, he said that it was a great improvement over 12.3. It may be different in your case, but worth a shot. Thanks for the videos!
In major cities, if you don't move into the intersection for a left turn, you will not get to go, and the drivers behind you will start laying on their horns, and with the second missed light they will get out and greet you personally. Am I misinterpreting what he said at 6:05? This won't work in reality at intersections where you need to be in the intersection waiting for the yellow to be able to turn when the other direction of cars stop for the red.
There's a lot of things people do to try and alleviate congestion that aren't technically legal. He's right you're not supposed to sit in the intersection for safety, but you will piss people off if they miss a turn because you weren't out enough. It's kinda like a taxi driver vs a limo driver. One is more likely to follow the actual law even if it makes driving slower.
@@jons7054 unlikely. It has to do with being in the intersection. You're not allowed to stop in the intersection pretty much regardless of if you're turning left, waiting for traffic to clear in front of you, etc etc. Like I said it has to do with safety because of t-bones or a head on collision from the other direction, especially as when you pull out to turn left your wheels are chocked and if you get rear ended will get pushed into oncoming. Vs if you're at the line you're more likely to be straight wheeled
@@MikeLikesMaking You don't pull into the intersection with your wheels turned. Google this and you will find articles from driving schools, newspaper Q&A with law enforcement, etc. There's a right and accepted way to do it, it's not against the law, and your Tesla or any driver will be sitting at left turns for hours if it follows this.
6:12 Most states actually allow you to enter the intersection on a green light. It's crucial to do, especially when the opposing traffic is also in a left turning lane. It would be negligent and dangerous not to pull into the intersection. Now I'm wondering what state you're in that has this dangerous law that doesn't allow you to use the intersection in the safest way possible
I drive like this. My area has lots of unprotected left turns like this, and if you miss the turn, it becomes a protected turn in the next light cycle, and I just prefer to take that for safety.
Did you enable "Minimize Lane Changes"? That usually helps. Also, is Tesla still disabling the double pull option when FSD is enabled? The loss of TACC-only (cruise control) driving is almost a deal-breaker for me. I sometimes want full control of the route and driving behavior but want the car to control the speed. If I want to use TACC-only, I have to stop, put the car in park, then disable FSD, and my double-pull setting is restored. Really dumb.
Very good presentation! I also like that you show something about what remaining problems FSD has. Too many just show uninteresting drives without any challenges and interventions. Different version 12s drives very well in many cases, enough to show me that it eventually will drive by itself. But it's only it's mistakes that tells me anything about what it's missing in its thinking. So, I want to see those things more than perfect drives. That wandering between lanes is a cute thing, and you presented it so well!
In California, the laws about pulling into an intersection to wait to make a left-hand turn are different than where you live. You are actually encouraged to do so in CA..
Fun fact: it’s actually *not* against the law to pull into the intersection in a lot of places! In fact, when I was in drivers ed, we were specifically taught *to* pull into the intersection when it turns green. Now my question is; Which way is the true proper way? 👀🤣
Welcome to the club. This has been this way for me for the last 1.5 years of FSD's. It will get in to a left hand turn lane for a right hand turn. The other thing I notice it it keeps going slower then the set cruise control limit.
Would be useful for FSD videos (from all posters) to now always show autopilot mode (chill, average, aggressive), lane change option (minimal or not), and auto speed offset option (yes or no). I'm not sure that we can make sense of all the test drives without knowing. To me it makes a huge difference what combination of these I use. For example, auto speed offset ON affects my lane change frequency compared to OFF, with all other settings the same. I have seen the long pause at a green light on 12.3.6.
Interesting. I had that same issue with needless lane changes, particularly into merging lanes a few updates back, when they did the most recent FSD 30 day trial.
Looking at the sped up portions, it seems like the car wants to stay in the right lane, but moves to the left (or middle) lane at the light. I wonder if that is an intended behavior to stay out of a faster lane.
Good to know distance to curbs was fixed. Can you also test how it avoids pot holes and how it moves or gives way to incoming motorcycles that split lanes during traffic.
Thanks for telling the truth. Other RUclipsrs just go on about no hands. Never anything the car is doing wrong. You get in your car and are like, what dah ****
Pretty wild that a version with such defective lane changes makes it into a release. The only explanation I can see is that it must be very hard to make specific adjustments to the model, like you can't just tell it to "make a lot less lane changes" without it having a ripple effect on other behavior throughout the model. Either they're asleep at the wheel with these releases (hard to believe) , or it must be extremely valuable to gather large scale data from a defective model to the point that it's worth making beta testers looking like insane people on the road.
Suggestions: 1. Recalibrate your cameras every time you perform an update. 2. Change your preferences settings for lane changes, etc. Don’t use assertive mode. Retest and upload video for comparison.
The headroom for future gains seems to be there. I see it like a rebuild of a CPU architecture, the gains aren't initially always so big, but it's much easier to build upon to increase performance for the next few gens. Eventually improvement scaling diminishes, and you do another rebuild. That seems to be what a full model retrain does.
I wonder if a camera re-calibration would help. I believe an employee was talking about 12.4 a couple weeks ago on reddit and they were complaining about the regressions. They then said everything was fixed after a camera re-calibration
I have experienced the same lane selection confusion in 12.3.6 on multiple occasions. And it loves to enter right turn lanes when the correct navigation is straight ahead even though it correctly renders the highly visible right turn arrows stenciled on the roadway. Embarrassing is the right description. I was hoping 12.4.x would fix this behavior but am disappointed that it’s about the same. I did try recalibrating my cameras but other than having to drive over 100 miles without FSD it had no effect.
I too have noticed some extremely stupid lane changes, even if you're within a mile of an exit and there's traffic it will happily get into the left lane and miss the frickin' exit. It just doesn't seem to think ahead.
This is weird to say, but one of my greatest fears with self-driving cars, is would it let me override all the safety systems to run someone over? Like, if a carjacker is pointing a gun at my head, would I just be stuck because the car would refuse to let me floor it?
Eventually they should handle these kind of edge cases too. Shouldn't be hard, it's very obvious when a gun is pointed at you, but they have bigger issues to solve first.
I have had the same problems and it stopped reading half the speed limit signs and sefaults to 20 mph. I suppose that’s why it is back to taking a half mile to slow down for a city. I wish we could control the regen rate in all modes
1:11 is correct behaviour in Australia and New Zealand at least. Both lanes are supposed to indicate for a zipper merge (when two lanes become one). Same for 2:53 is the behaviour I would expect in Aus/NZ, giving way to oncoming traffic in a right turn without a dedicated arrow. I wonder if some of the behaviour is a result of internationalisation?
I tried it on our trip from Texas to Colorado and it did always change to the exact lane I didn’t want and short turn only lanes. I also had phantom braking several times. I don’t think I got more a 50 mile stretch out of it the entire trip.
Probably dumb question, have you tried recalibration? Also, laws on entering intersections differ by state / locality. Where I am from, you are expected to pull into the intersection.
I was taught to pull forward to near the center of the intersection and wait (if it's busy you then go through once it turns yellow and opposing traffic gives way)
I can relate, my fsd hates pedestrian walking near it. My parking stopped working because someone was on the side walk. It also gets confused when it's able to see multiple traffic lights and refused to move. My FSD also hates red cars 😅 it beeps at them even in far distance as if I am going to have an accident which is really weird.
Extremely good and concise demo of 12.4. I really like that you don't publish immediately after an update drops. Instead you take your time and bring us a high value summary of relevant experiences at an enjoyable pace.
Other channels just cover the same roads over and over showing nothing important and because they do it quickly after the update they are not ready to show something meaningful.
This way of showing the progress gives value to our time and in return makes the video very entertaining.
This is why your sub count grows steadily. You truly have a monopoly on Tesla FSD demos. Keep up the good work.
Well said
While I agree that this is probably the best FSD channel, I have to point out that covering the same drives is not a bad thing. The most empirical way to test FSD's progress is to find a really challenging drive, that includes a lot of different challenges, and do it for every version, tracking the differences in performance. There is value in giving more general impressions too, on a general set of drives, but that does not mean the former is bad.
12.4 was trained on BMW drivers...
nah, it actually uses turn signals on lane changes
@@MrImodrelmao😂
90 days of training, 90 days of AI and Neural Networks.
And 12.4.1 has the smarts of a donkee.
they not like us
I laughed out loud.
Two lanes: Exists
12.4.1: It's free realestate
I had hoped it was actually following the racing line, and it was not.
May be, FSD has a new jolly mode/mood!
Swinging back and forth between lanes is its way of enjoying the ride 😄
I guess it is being optimized for traffic in my home country India :P there is free real estate on every god damn road there. there is precisely ZERO consideration of lanes.
But only for Jim Booney
Your detailed technical approach to these videos and objectivity makes this channel one of the very few if not the only reliable source of FSD updates. I stopped reading any articles or viewing other videos that are just in one camp or the other trying to make a sale or push their views/feelings onto others. Thanks a lot for the content!
Lol that moment where it stops directly behind the reversing Tesla was a true DERP moment. Absolutely Hilarious.
saw the shorts but i much prefer these longer videos; as someone without a tesla, it's good to see its evolution
EDIT: well, i suppose devolution for you
Any plans to get one?
@@Al-Misanthropic-Bundy hopefully! i'd really like one
I want to get the Model 3 Performance in the future. I appreciate the self-driving characteristics however my favorite part is that the car is just so fun. Very simple powertrain, good handling and manageable power all without the need for gasoline
Only 15 minutes of AI DRIVR after one month??? C'mon dude, we miss you!
Yeah, what´s happening? Dropped my patron sub due to this.
The problem with a improving FSD versions, there are less issues to talk about.... It's only going to get worst from here. Watching it drive or making a video about it will get boring very quickly.
@@evrevo2593 Hes gotta get out of the city and see what FSD can do with new spaces
2 steps forward. 1 step back.
1 step forward, 2 lane changes back
@@AIDRIVR or even 3 lane changes.
1 step forward , 2 steps back
@@jamesdean433 well soon thel bug fix it and go 3 steps forward
@@emm4148 You can hope for 3 steps forward. Keep dreaming.
6:12 Proceeding into the intersection keeping your tires straight is the legal thing to do: “You may enter the intersection to prepare for your left turn if the light is green and no other vehicle ahead of you is preparing for a left turn.” This is a direct quotation from the latest edition of the New York State Drivers Manual. This is also the case in California. Stop spreading false information.☹
interesting... in Germany when turning left, you are supposed to drive into the intersection as soon as the light turns green. Obviously you still have to give the right of way to the oncoming traffic, but you are supposed to wait inside the intersection.
Obviously if theres already one or two cars waiting within the intersection you have to hold back as well.
Also in italy
USA has weird un-common-sense rules.
Not if there is heavy traffic. Best to wait because you may not be able to make the turn and can be stuck in the middle. Yes you could go after the lights turn red but sometimes you're doing so after the other lights turn green because the others run the light or they themselves are stuck in the middle.
@@DJT125489 I cant see their light anyways, you just drive if the oncoming traffic stops. If they run it idc because I'm not turning before they stop, right? No one stops and then accelerates again to run the light? theres enough time between to make your turn.
As I said, as a second+ car you might want to stop and not drive into the intersection, but if you are the first one you are supposed to drive in. You are literally supposed to complete your turn after the light turns red for the oncoming traffic if there is no gap.
Wdym they are also stuck in the middle? like who? How would 2 people be "stuck" in a way that they block each other?
Same here in The Netherlands.
I tried FSD 12.3 for two months in Atlanta, GA. The one very annoying thing I didn't like FSD for is city driving. The potholes, manholes covers and sewer grates 2-3" below grade, FSD runs right over them like no ones business. I would drive around to avoid pothole flats or alignment issues. For this reason, I didn't upgrade from EAP to FSD. That and the fact Tesla doesn't allow me to transfer FSD to another Tesla I may buy down the road.
FSD is not for the city of Atlanta. Not with those roads, unfortunately. Dekalb spends money on roads, and Atlanta thinks we are a 3rd world city. I wonder if the mayor drives around the city.
atlanta moment
@@ojobeeit's always someone else fault other than tesla. What I I told you Atlanta streets are similar to most streets in America.
That will be solved eventually, and probably soon.
As for the transfer issue, you can use it for $99 a month on any Tesla. What you lose in exchange is the eventual robotaxi revenue.
Pothole detection is coming they said but needs a few more updates before we get it
Just finished my drive with the update, mine doesn’t have this lane change problem but I did see that it did much much more phantom braking. Towards the end in the neighborhood it even sensed like there was a dog on the side of the rode on the grass so it started to brake but it was this upright fallen tree branch. I will say it is definitely more aggressive when driving which is great!
Beautifully sequenced, edited, paced, narrated. As always. Still the best bulletins for FSD by far. Thank you!
It's so interesting to see the 'shape' of improvement. For a short while I thought that as it got 'great' FSD videos might become less interesting. But as the improvements become more subtle, and have to be 'spotted' this only serves to reinforce how more human it seems. (To me anyway, if that makes sense). Which is why I appreciate you holding back on the 'nag' update until 12:00 : it feels like an underscore to everything, I get it.
All the best to you and yours. And bad luck about all those bleeping lane changes.. ; (
Finally a video that highlights what is better about this build! I've been hearing people say it's better, but no specifics other than the attention monitoring. Thanks!
You and Dirty Tesla is my favorite channels with fsd videos! Keep up! It’s nice that you guys are frank in your criticism about fsd!
6:12 - Everything I looked at told me this is wrong in California. Like every other state, proceed into the intersection, wait for a clearing, and move. If you have to wait until it turns red, it isn't running the red light since you're already in the intersection. That's what the CHP told ABC-30 if you search for "Know the Road with the CHP: Do I enter the intersection while making a left turn and waiting for traffic?"
This is such an important correction, @shanedk, since so many people make this mistake - suggest video should be edited please. Thanks!!
People do that all the time. But it’s not legal. You are never supposed to enter an intersection unless you’re able to complete your movement and exit the intersection. Entering the intersection and sitting in the middle waiting for the light to turn is in no way a legal action. Some states refer to this as “blocking the box”. It doesn’t matter if you’re going straight, turning left or turning right. Cannot legally enter the intersection unless you can also exit at that time.
@@Meatball2022 It is absolutely legal, recommended, and even taught in driver's ed in every state I've looked at.
@@shanedk that’s funny. As per the actual California dmv handbook, it says otherwise.
A green traffic signal light means GO. You should still stop for any vehicle, bicyclist, or pedestrian in the intersection. Only proceed if you have enough space without creating a danger to any oncoming vehicle, bicyclist, or pedestrian. Do not enter the intersection if you cannot get completely across before the traffic signal light turns red.
As per www.dmv.ca dot gov /portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/
@@shanedk you haven’t looked very hard I guess. One very quick search even here on RUclips finds out that it’s illegal in Washington and Oregon. Several other states as well. Maybe it is in California. Doubtful. But maybe. But clearly it’s illegal in lots of places. Cannot enter any intersection unless you can get through it immediately.
So thankful you finally dropped a video! I watched your videos for months until I bought my first Tesla 3 weeks ago and I’ve checked for any new videos you dropped everyday! Great content!
AO! That park at the end 😱
Appreciate the intergrity of you being up front about this.
This is not the Mars channel, with all praise all the time.
AI Driver is honest, and gives us the *real* *story* .
California Vehicle Code used to state (and I do not believe it's been changed) when making a left turn on a green light, you should move forward toward the middle of the intersection, keep your wheel straight and wait for a safe time to complete the turn. Waiting at the limit line as you did is NOT correct, ever. In fact, the driver(s) behind you will not appreciate it.
That used to be how it was. They changed the laws. You can no longer wait in the middle of the road, you have to stay behind the white line before you make a left on a green light
@@edwardcarrillom In my city you will never get to turn, there is still traffic going up until the red, it's only possible to wait in the intersection until the cars stop, or you and the line of 10 cars behind you will never get to go.
@@edwardcarrillom That means in some cases you and the car behind you will never get to turn. Once you are stepped out the limit line by a bit, you can turn once the opposite lane is clear even when the light just turn red, but in the new law as you mentioned you won’t be able to do that whatsoever and you will get honked on.
Also add that it is VERY dangerous and highly illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection. As far as the left turn and yielding to traffic while pulled into the intersection is concerned I just looked at the law and I am not sure what the other guy is saying, but the law still states you can pull up into the intersection and wait for the opportunity to turn as long as you are not blocking cross traffic and you are not making your left turn before you pull into the intersection.
@@edwardcarrillom How long ago did this change? I don't live in California anymore but visit family and they all still do this. Seems like a weird change, theres plenty of places you'd basically never get to turn if you did this.
Top 1% FSD reviewer. Just outstanding.
Your ability to concisely summarize the updates is so impressive; probably the best out there. Very thoughtful review!
When I got 12.4 it was the same as your experience with lane changing. 2 other testers had the same story. All 3 of us did camera recalibration, and afterward, it was 100% fixed. Have you tried recalibration? I didn't recalibrate for any of the prior version 12+ updates. This is the only update I've had to recalibrate for it to settle back down.
If you pick minimal lane changes, is it still a lane changing spaz?
That’s immediately where my thought went. I wonder if it’s a bug related to that feature.
Setting: Change lanes when you want.
Tesla: I took that personally.
My guess: 🤔
12.3 was trained on Tesla employee data & very specific videos that where prescreened by humans for correct driving behavior. Less data but high quality. They were compute constrained.
12.4 was trained on a huge amount of general video pulled from fleet. This would have a mix of good driving behavior and bad. Then, they try to use quantity to weed out the bad driving training data by having the AI consider less frequent maneuvers as anomalous behavior it shouldn’t do.
Eventually enough data will be fed through that the good behavior will rise to the top. Unless, humans in general are such bad drivers that fleet data will be useless to train on. 🤔
Data quality is super important! If you feed an AI BAD DATA, It will learn from that bad data!
Teslas new aproach seems to be: well lets throw EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink at it, it will work out in the end… seems like that didnt work out the way they wanted…
For some insight, Google 'AlphaGo Zero progression'.
The short version is.
It originally learned from watching people's games first. After it was good, it played only itself and became unbeatable.
You make some good excuses for Tesla Corp, and the very poor performance of 12.4.1. Elon would be proud.
@@DerekDavis213 thx
With the driver score, I'm sure they pull those videos more than others.
Very informative video. Thx!
I'm a BMW driver and haven't checked FSD on Tesla videos since almost a year. Looks like a lot improved.
Thanks for spending so much time to make this video!
That lane changing frequency is just dangerous. Into merging lanes, in the middle of intersections, almost into passing traffic? I would be calling 911 for a DUI if i saw that in front of me.
Really, really liked your video describing the various scenarios that pose issues for the car - far more useful than the videos that are full of praise. To be honest we need many more such videos, so keep them coming. I have v12.3.6 and have myself observed several scenarios that it does not handle well or at all. Granted, it’s awesome overall, but reporting its pitfalls will help Tesla make it better faster.
Does the lane changing madness go away if you turn on "necessary lane changes only" for navigation?
Also curious about this. 12.3.6 more or less ignores that setting.
There will be an update for wide release
its crazy how it goes back and forth to being safe, then to being more dynamic, on and on, each iteration
Some people like safe, others like assertive, it's very hard to find a good compromise. Eventually you'll be able to choose, but for now they just want to get it work.
I love this video. It is very comprehensive and thorough.
I would like to see an entire 30 min drive through a difficult neigborhood in a different Model Y to see if the lane changing issue persists, and to count critical/noncritical interventions.
You rock, best FSD channel out there! Take your time, good things take time!
Does it matter what settings you have it on, aggressive vs casual? with those lane changes
12.4.1 was like "*shrugs * you didn't turn on the Minimal Lane Change mode"
Did you hear that one of the early users of 12.4 had lots of interventions but then recalibrated his cameras and it was much better.
9:54 - The car actually executed a U-Turn!!??
Yeah that was "Black Tesla" but it did the same thing with lanes even with the clean cameras.
I've researched this regularly repeated "recalibrate your cameras" and can find NOTHING that says it's a good thing to do unless you've crashed the camera somehow. Can you please provide a reference to an official Tesla guidance on recalibrating cameras? TIA
MY u turned a couple days ago 12.3.6
12.3.6 can technically do u-turns - have done a handful successfully for me. It's not good at it though. Sometimes it gives up and bails out, too slow, doesn't turn tight enough, etc.
@@captcurthess Even though you may be right there is enough anecdotal information that AIdriver should recalibrate if he hasn't already.
Drunk Tesla AI the conversation with police officers will be funny always 😂
I had the crazy lane change problem during the free month. It would drive me crazy getting into lanes that were ending soon or seeming to forget that it had a turn coming up and getting in the wrong lane.
Love your videos, thanks for all the detailed scenarios you cover.
Wonder if the lane change frequency stops when "minimal lane changes" is toggled in the car??
Yea bro I’m having the exact same issues, hoping it gets addressed soon
Recalibrate your cameras. One of the early employees to get 12.4 mentioned that his experience was erratic until he was advised to recalibrate the cameras. After that, he said that it was a great improvement over 12.3. It may be different in your case, but worth a shot. Thanks for the videos!
The best FSD reviews, by far. Thanks for the huge efforts.
Our Tesla Y is doing the same wacky lane changing, and it all doing some unusual breaking at the same time Thanks for the excellent video.
Oh no! The derp moments 😂 so relatable. Looking forward to eventually pushing this system into intense labor haha.
In major cities, if you don't move into the intersection for a left turn, you will not get to go, and the drivers behind you will start laying on their horns, and with the second missed light they will get out and greet you personally. Am I misinterpreting what he said at 6:05? This won't work in reality at intersections where you need to be in the intersection waiting for the yellow to be able to turn when the other direction of cars stop for the red.
There's a lot of things people do to try and alleviate congestion that aren't technically legal. He's right you're not supposed to sit in the intersection for safety, but you will piss people off if they miss a turn because you weren't out enough.
It's kinda like a taxi driver vs a limo driver. One is more likely to follow the actual law even if it makes driving slower.
@@MikeLikesMaking It must be a local law.
@@jons7054 unlikely. It has to do with being in the intersection. You're not allowed to stop in the intersection pretty much regardless of if you're turning left, waiting for traffic to clear in front of you, etc etc. Like I said it has to do with safety because of t-bones or a head on collision from the other direction, especially as when you pull out to turn left your wheels are chocked and if you get rear ended will get pushed into oncoming. Vs if you're at the line you're more likely to be straight wheeled
@@MikeLikesMaking You don't pull into the intersection with your wheels turned. Google this and you will find articles from driving schools, newspaper Q&A with law enforcement, etc. There's a right and accepted way to do it, it's not against the law, and your Tesla or any driver will be sitting at left turns for hours if it follows this.
Did you try "minimize lane changes"?
6:12 Most states actually allow you to enter the intersection on a green light. It's crucial to do, especially when the opposing traffic is also in a left turning lane. It would be negligent and dangerous not to pull into the intersection.
Now I'm wondering what state you're in that has this dangerous law that doesn't allow you to use the intersection in the safest way possible
In California (where the video takes place), you could move into the intersection.
6:05. Interesting. First time I've seen a left turn law like that.
I drive like this. My area has lots of unprotected left turns like this, and if you miss the turn, it becomes a protected turn in the next light cycle, and I just prefer to take that for safety.
That 5x claim has to be about a different 12.4 build 😂
Or a completely different meaning of intervention. Like he meant the nag was an intervention.
Mind blowing🙄
That's just Elon Musk being Elon Musk imo
@@SumriseHD So in other words, a big ole liar.
Elon saw something in internal testing that made him say that. Remember - 12.3.1 was full of bugs too.
wild lane changes, can you prevent that by selecting minimize lane changes in the setting? thanks.
Nice video. Can’t wait to see ur evaluation after the minor updates to this FSD version.
Have you calibrated your camera's that was a reported issue that fixed problem with another tester?
Did you enable "Minimize Lane Changes"? That usually helps. Also, is Tesla still disabling the double pull option when FSD is enabled? The loss of TACC-only (cruise control) driving is almost a deal-breaker for me. I sometimes want full control of the route and driving behavior but want the car to control the speed. If I want to use TACC-only, I have to stop, put the car in park, then disable FSD, and my double-pull setting is restored. Really dumb.
Did you re-calibrate the cameras after the upgrade?
Very good presentation!
I also like that you show something about what remaining problems FSD has. Too many just show uninteresting drives without any challenges and interventions.
Different version 12s drives very well in many cases, enough to show me that it eventually will drive by itself. But it's only it's mistakes that tells me anything about what it's missing in its thinking. So, I want to see those things more than perfect drives.
That wandering between lanes is a cute thing, and you presented it so well!
In California, the laws about pulling into an intersection to wait to make a left-hand turn are different than where you live. You are actually encouraged to do so in CA..
Best 12.4.1 review I've seen. Good job.
Fun fact: it’s actually *not* against the law to pull into the intersection in a lot of places! In fact, when I was in drivers ed, we were specifically taught *to* pull into the intersection when it turns green.
Now my question is;
Which way is the true proper way? 👀🤣
Welcome to the club. This has been this way for me for the last 1.5 years of FSD's. It will get in to a left hand turn lane for a right hand turn. The other thing I notice it it keeps going slower then the set cruise control limit.
Would be useful for FSD videos (from all posters) to now always show autopilot mode (chill, average, aggressive), lane change option (minimal or not), and auto speed offset option (yes or no). I'm not sure that we can make sense of all the test drives without knowing. To me it makes a huge difference what combination of these I use. For example, auto speed offset ON affects my lane change frequency compared to OFF, with all other settings the same.
I have seen the long pause at a green light on 12.3.6.
Great video as always. Thank you for your hard work editing this one - love it!
Good work. I can report the same vacillating lane changes.
Interesting. I had that same issue with needless lane changes, particularly into merging lanes a few updates back, when they did the most recent FSD 30 day trial.
I just appreciate you listening to Gracie Abrams at 12:35
Looking at the sped up portions, it seems like the car wants to stay in the right lane, but moves to the left (or middle) lane at the light. I wonder if that is an intended behavior to stay out of a faster lane.
Maybe recalibration of your cameras will fix that
Version 12.4 is simply dangerous
Same in 3.6 with the lane thing. Seems to need the arrows to make up its mind but often isnt there or not soon enough
Thanks for posting an honest review
I like this format very good
Good to know distance to curbs was fixed. Can you also test how it avoids pot holes and how it moves or gives way to incoming motorcycles that split lanes during traffic.
Do you drive on aggressive? And can't you select minimal lane changes?
Thanks for telling the truth. Other RUclipsrs just go on about no hands. Never anything the car is doing wrong. You get in your car and are like, what dah ****
Pretty wild that a version with such defective lane changes makes it into a release. The only explanation I can see is that it must be very hard to make specific adjustments to the model, like you can't just tell it to "make a lot less lane changes" without it having a ripple effect on other behavior throughout the model. Either they're asleep at the wheel with these releases (hard to believe) , or it must be extremely valuable to gather large scale data from a defective model to the point that it's worth making beta testers looking like insane people on the road.
I think you need to calibrate the camera. I've heard of this issue before, and a recalibration of the camera fixed it.
Suggestions:
1. Recalibrate your cameras every time you perform an update.
2. Change your preferences settings for lane changes, etc. Don’t use assertive mode.
Retest and upload video for comparison.
When you have minimal lane changes on does that help?
What your lane change setting and the drive mode ??
What is the acceleration and braking like? As in with 12.3 right now it boosts from an intersection up to speed unnecessarily.
Did you try recalibrating the cameras?
The headroom for future gains seems to be there. I see it like a rebuild of a CPU architecture, the gains aren't initially always so big, but it's much easier to build upon to increase performance for the next few gens. Eventually improvement scaling diminishes, and you do another rebuild. That seems to be what a full model retrain does.
I wonder if a camera re-calibration would help. I believe an employee was talking about 12.4 a couple weeks ago on reddit and they were complaining about the regressions. They then said everything was fixed after a camera re-calibration
Just curious, what driving profile are you on?
Average
Have you cleaned your cameras?
I have experienced the same lane selection confusion in 12.3.6 on multiple occasions. And it loves to enter right turn lanes when the correct navigation is straight ahead even though it correctly renders the highly visible right turn arrows stenciled on the roadway. Embarrassing is the right description.
I was hoping 12.4.x would fix this behavior but am disappointed that it’s about the same. I did try recalibrating my cameras but other than having to drive over 100 miles without FSD it had no effect.
I really hope the object permanence feature avoids potholes. The Canadians need it.
Have you tried a camera recalibration?
I too have noticed some extremely stupid lane changes, even if you're within a mile of an exit and there's traffic it will happily get into the left lane and miss the frickin' exit. It just doesn't seem to think ahead.
If 7:50 is downtown Oakley, I can confirm that 12.3.6 would not have stopped for those pedestrians. I got a middle finger last time 😂
I didn't see them at all
This is weird to say, but one of my greatest fears with self-driving cars, is would it let me override all the safety systems to run someone over? Like, if a carjacker is pointing a gun at my head, would I just be stuck because the car would refuse to let me floor it?
Eventually they should handle these kind of edge cases too. Shouldn't be hard, it's very obvious when a gun is pointed at you, but they have bigger issues to solve first.
What auto pilot settings are you using? Did it make a difference when using chill, average or assertive.
I have had the same problems and it stopped reading half the speed limit signs and sefaults to 20 mph. I suppose that’s why it is back to taking a half mile to slow down for a city. I wish we could control the regen rate in all modes
1:11 is correct behaviour in Australia and New Zealand at least. Both lanes are supposed to indicate for a zipper merge (when two lanes become one).
Same for 2:53 is the behaviour I would expect in Aus/NZ, giving way to oncoming traffic in a right turn without a dedicated arrow.
I wonder if some of the behaviour is a result of internationalisation?
I tried it on our trip from Texas to Colorado and it did always change to the exact lane I didn’t want and short turn only lanes. I also had phantom braking several times. I don’t think I got more a 50 mile stretch out of it the entire trip.
Where'd you get that steering wheel cover?
How does it do at nite on an unlit country road in a heavy fog or blinding snowstorm?
Probably dumb question, have you tried recalibration? Also, laws on entering intersections differ by state / locality. Where I am from, you are expected to pull into the intersection.
I was taught to pull forward to near the center of the intersection and wait (if it's busy you then go through once it turns yellow and opposing traffic gives way)
@@graemeesmith Same. That helps assure at least a couple cars can turn when there is lots of traffic and no turn arrow.
I guess choose min lane change would solve the problem, do you recommend turn it on everytime???
I can relate, my fsd hates pedestrian walking near it. My parking stopped working because someone was on the side walk. It also gets confused when it's able to see multiple traffic lights and refused to move. My FSD also hates red cars 😅 it beeps at them even in far distance as if I am going to have an accident which is really weird.