They you shouldn't learn too much about what your artistic heroes are like as people. But with Harlan, it was impossible to avoid, because he exposed so much of his inner self. Amazing asshole, in at least a couple of senses.
im pretty sure you can hear ellison say ‘im gonna eat this’ before putting the mic in his mouth (idk its 8:52 AM right now) (the ihnmaims brainrot is real)
@@egirlfromwish it's just an observation about something they probably thought was amusing. what, can no one make a simple observation anymore? does everything a person can say have to contribute to a bigger issue? you seem rude.
Everyone knows that she didn't think it was just a big joke. Read some science fiction bloggers....someone called Scenden in a post from Aug. 30 2006 (in the Goblin's Gobbledegook) says he knows C.Willis's daughter. And Ms. Willis was pissed and not happy about Ellison's supposed apology either. But she didn't get flustered about it on stage. That doesn't mean she was cool with it.
Just watch/read "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan, and you'll understand he's a misogynistic narcissist, who only sees women as objects to be used and discarded.
What someone writes about doesn't reflect who they are as a person. Boy and His Dog is set in an awful post apocalyptic world, the misogyny is far from the worst thing displayed there. Do you think people that write horror books want to be murderers?
What he did here was fucked up though, and I'm not saying he's not a misogynist (he's DEFINITELY a narcissist if you look at his history of lawsuits and shit). Just saying what he writes isn't any evidence of it.
Rose Srphm You’re not accurate. Harlan did a lot to expand the number of women writers in science fiction and fantasy. Dangerous Visions was one of the first anthologies to include stories by women writers who didn’t use pseudonyms
In my opinion, i don’t think he meant to make connie uncomfortable i think he was just trying to be funny. Even though that’s not a accuse as Connie obviously felt violated. But this man is dead and yet people are arguing over this still.. This was over 17 years ago. And he also apologised (Not that Connie has to forgive him for that)
While its all funny and such, you can see it in her face though, shortly after she doesnt look too happy and then Boom straight off the stage. Hard to say for sure, but if she didnt like it, then it was inappropriate....
J. Michael Straczynski, in this round of press around the new book, has noted that shortly after this , HE was diagnosed as bipolar and started taking medication. His temperament evened out and began apologizing to everybody he could for his past behavior, much like an alcoholic would do. Does not excuse anything, but does explain quite a bit.
Nope. That is just the way Harlan was. I saw him at the 1976 Star Trek Convention in Oakland. He talked about how much of an asshole he thought William Shatner was, and told a story about Capt Kirk riding over to his house on his motorcycle. I saw nothing wrong with what Bill did, but one could say Mr. Ellison was being a bit of a pill himself.
From the distance of years, footage, and the grave this seems more like a tempest in a tea pot. Still she has every right to be offended, to be absolutely livid. If some dude goosed Harlan, I'm sure he wouldn't have taken it quite so well. Anyways, life is complicated, and people complicate it. 🤷♂️ 🤷♀️
Love Harlan's fiction, never cared for his philosophizing interviews or capering. This was performance, but in poor taste if it wasn't coordinated with Mrs. Willis.
It's sobering to read all the comments excusing Ellison of assaulting Connie in this clip; if it was your mothers you would all be enraged. Ellison was right - even if he didn't know he was talking about himself. Humans choose the rock every. single. time.
I love the lady presenting him an award starts treating him like a baby and so he doubles the fuck down. Man is the definition of "Become ungovernable."
Yeah, that's non-consensual groping - legally, a form of sexual assault. Was it meant as a joke? Was he just goofing around? Probably. Still wrong. Was she upset by it? Yes. If she weren't upset by it? Still wrong. If you're not upset by it? Still wrong.
I read an article from 2006 calling this a deliberately demeaning power play. I don't think it looks quite that sinister. More like a guy with a poor sense of boundaries trying to entertain a crowd and taking it too far.
Yeah she was treating him disrespectfully, and he should have responded in kind-- with words. She has never commented on the incident. Perhaps she saw how he felt, but I imagine the friendship ended that day.
She wasn't treating him disrespectfully, they were doing a bit for the audience. He put the mic in his mouth ffs. Dosent mean he should grope her in any scenario
Of being groped by an elder statesman of the SF community on stage in front of thousands of people? In that case I apologise and withdraw. If not, the fact that you were not offended is still irrelevant. Only Connie Willis gets to say whether or not she should be offended by Harlan Ellison's actions.
@@haroldnations I never understood this whole "why didn't she complain immediately" stuff. She's on a stage with one of the kings of sci-fi. He can destroy her professionally and the audience, who's yucking it up, is clearly with him. I mean he beat James Cameron in court, for christ's sake. Do you, as a victim at that moment, stop the whole show and be seen as someone with no sense of humor and even a cold shrew? You're lying if you say yes. She acted like she was expected to act as a professional and a subordinate to a living legend. He did what he did for the same reason all abusers do. Because he knew his status would allow him to get away with it and that someone like you would defend him to the bitter end.
@@haroldnations And if she had shown immediate outrage she would have been slammed for not waiting until afterwards and being selfish toward everyone who was there for the show. Men will find a way to deny women credence one way or another-- they're excuses and not reasons.
This is Harlan being Harlan, and for as much as an acerbic, grouchy, loudmouth, cynical, and abusive person he is, he would never take such a liberty with somebody whom he didn't know well. Besides, if he really stepped across that line his wife Susan would have laid him out with a frying pan.
+World Hero Animations Towards the end of the video, he grabbed her breast. It was not planned or consensual and it was not part of their shtick. Connie, reportedly, felt very violated by his actions, though he later left a nearly unintelligible voicemail on her phone apologizing for it. It is not very noticeable on the video, but I suspect that it mattered to Connie a great deal nonetheless. scendan.livejournal.com/586135.html
Your "being a chick" does not make you the final arbiter on whether or not Ellison's action was inappropriate or whether Willis was or should be upset by it. Thank goodness for that.
Oh, come on. I'm a chick and I don't find this offensive in the least. They're clearly friendly enough that she's got an arm around him, he's tiny enough that there's nothing intimidating about him, and it was a brief touch more than a real grope in there =P The only thing that surprises me here is how adorable Ellison is.
It was no accident folks;it vwas just Harlan performing on stage to either make you laugh or get pissed off. Either way, he doesn't give a hoot. Willis didn't get upset, but just laughed because she has known him a long time and nothing he does shocks her. If you were offended, then take a leap into... well you'll think of something.
Harlan Ellison himself said he writes mostly to shock. And I'm certain he extended that to... just being. If it shocks people, he's happy with it. Then again, he's a self-proclaimed feminist, has been since the 70s at least, so just grabbing a tit isn't something he would do EVEN if he meant to shock. It looks to me more like he's putting a hand on her collarbone and maybe slipped a little too low. He even covers his mouth in apology.
Willis was very upset actually, just kept her composure on stage. He later apologised and got mad AT HER when she didn't except his half assed apologies
I would hardly call Harlan's actions assault. Did he cross a boundary? Yes, but he was just being a jackass on a stage to make the audience laugh. It looks like he regrets it almost immediately
"I'm Harlan ELLISON, dammit! I mean . . . I'm _somebody!_ Hell, I'm a genuine Personality! I'm famous for my antics, so I've gotta be . . . _shocking!_ And _irreverent!_ Or failing that, at least _memorable._ And since I have nothing funny or clever or new to say or do, hey - why not eat a microphone and then grab some boobage?" sigh. this sort of forced-wacky shtick from desperately irreverent personalities is so depressing. i guess you've gotta keep that infamy wheel spinning . . . for fear you'll soon be forgotten entirely or something. for a person as notoriously "eccentric" and "obsessive" as Ellison, that had to have been the thinking behind this crass trash. clearly for him it had _long_ since gotten beyond the point to just let your work speak for itself . . . so at this point stunts like this were probably as inevitable as they were unwelcome. still though, _I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream_ is a _hell_ of a story. a HELL of a story.
Yeah I pretty much agree. In hindsight, it was a desperate attempt to maintain his reputation, which by that point had already been well established. He took "Are you gonna be good?" as a provocation. But at this age he should've known better. At least he owned up to it and apologized
This is the only instance I’ve ever seen or heard of Harlan “groping”. I know Harlan is an insensitive asshole, but you can’t just lay false claims at his door. The instance in this video is clear to see, even if it is a severely poor attempt at a joke, but just casually saying that he did it regularly without proof or merit is not ok
@@amanalone3473 Yeah I never heard any other incidents of Harlan groping. Here, he seems to wrap it into a misguided attempt at a comedy bit. A bad choice on his part, sure, but I don't see a whole lot of malice in it. Poor judgement? Absolutely. HOWEVER, it's kinda disturbing how he repeatedly came to the defense of known and convicted pedophile Ed Kramer
@@pod831 i'm guessing ur joking, but if ur not - whether it's inherently used for reproduction is not what defines it as sexual or not. boobs are sexualised by both men and women. they're a sexual body part, and a private, erogenous area. i really hope you're not over the age of 12 and actually thinking it's fine to grope someone's privates...
That was funny, and I think, I hope, that Connie would tell him that what he did was wrong in private. But it all looked like one big joke and Connie probably just found it funny. Who knows?
They you shouldn't learn too much about what your artistic heroes are like as people. But with Harlan, it was impossible to avoid, because he exposed so much of his inner self. Amazing asshole, in at least a couple of senses.
Two year olds stumbling across a small object:
0:15
im pretty sure you can hear ellison say ‘im gonna eat this’ before putting the mic in his mouth (idk its 8:52 AM right now) (the ihnmaims brainrot is real)
what does that have to do with anything
@@egirlfromwish idk
@@egirlfromwish it's just an observation about something they probably thought was amusing. what, can no one make a simple observation anymore? does everything a person can say have to contribute to a bigger issue? you seem rude.
AM
AM?????
He wanted to be funny more than he wanted to consider his friend's feelings.
Everyone knows that she didn't think it was just a big joke. Read some science fiction bloggers....someone called Scenden in a post from Aug. 30 2006 (in the Goblin's Gobbledegook) says he knows C.Willis's daughter. And Ms. Willis was pissed and not happy about Ellison's supposed apology either. But she didn't get flustered about it on stage. That doesn't mean she was cool with it.
Just watch/read "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan, and you'll understand he's a misogynistic narcissist, who only sees women as objects to be used and discarded.
What someone writes about doesn't reflect who they are as a person. Boy and His Dog is set in an awful post apocalyptic world, the misogyny is far from the worst thing displayed there.
Do you think people that write horror books want to be murderers?
What he did here was fucked up though, and I'm not saying he's not a misogynist (he's DEFINITELY a narcissist if you look at his history of lawsuits and shit). Just saying what he writes isn't any evidence of it.
Rose Srphm You’re not accurate. Harlan did a lot to expand the number of women writers in science fiction and fantasy. Dangerous Visions was one of the first anthologies to include stories by women writers who didn’t use pseudonyms
James Glass Well said.
In my opinion, i don’t think he meant to make connie uncomfortable i think he was just trying to be funny. Even though that’s not a accuse as Connie obviously felt violated. But this man is dead and yet people are arguing over this still.. This was over 17 years ago. And he also apologised (Not that Connie has to forgive him for that)
Did she ever release a statement about it?
While its all funny and such, you can see it in her face though, shortly after she doesnt look too happy and then Boom straight off the stage. Hard to say for sure, but if she didnt like it, then it was inappropriate....
no joke, was he high in this?
J. Michael Straczynski, in this round of press around the new book, has noted that shortly after this , HE was diagnosed as bipolar and started taking medication. His temperament evened out and began apologizing to everybody he could for his past behavior, much like an alcoholic would do. Does not excuse anything, but does explain quite a bit.
Nope. That is just the way Harlan was. I saw him at the 1976 Star Trek Convention in Oakland. He talked about how much of an asshole he thought William Shatner was, and told a story about Capt Kirk riding over to his house on his motorcycle. I saw nothing wrong with what Bill did, but one could say Mr. Ellison was being a bit of a pill himself.
From the distance of years, footage, and the grave this seems more like a tempest in a tea pot. Still she has every right to be offended, to be absolutely livid. If some dude goosed Harlan, I'm sure he wouldn't have taken it quite so well. Anyways, life is complicated, and people complicate it. 🤷♂️ 🤷♀️
Exacto.
Love Harlan's fiction, never cared for his philosophizing interviews or capering. This was performance, but in poor taste if it wasn't coordinated with Mrs. Willis.
It's sobering to read all the comments excusing Ellison of assaulting Connie in this clip; if it was your mothers you would all be enraged.
Ellison was right - even if he didn't know he was talking about himself. Humans choose the rock every. single. time.
Cope.
what assault? did i miss something?
@@Nyssine ig you missed the part where he gropes her, humiliating her in front of a crowd of people??
@@1010AAG yeah i guess i did, what's the timestamp for that?
@@Nyssine 0:43 to me it looks like he was just trying to touch her chest and not her breast but I can’t say much.
I love the lady presenting him an award starts treating him like a baby and so he doubles the fuck down. Man is the definition of "Become ungovernable."
hes a fucking freak
Because he was a narcissistic jackass, yeah.
Yeah, that's non-consensual groping - legally, a form of sexual assault. Was it meant as a joke? Was he just goofing around? Probably. Still wrong. Was she upset by it? Yes. If she weren't upset by it? Still wrong. If you're not upset by it? Still wrong.
Karmadog calm the hell down
Zachary Bittner, would you have the same reaction if that was your mom/grandmother/sister/daughter/niece/girlfriend?
Yes
Are taxes consensual? Was the draft consensual? Was the Kent State massacre consensual?
@@estebansteverincon7117Taxes are non-consensual so sexual contact should be as well??
Someone check this dudes hard drive. Now.
Why have I never seen this??? I also love Connie, she is great.
"'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman"
- You gonna be good?
- No
I mean she asked...
Adorable? Blech. But to each her own, I guess.
If i ever become an author, I will recreate this moment in his honor
I read an article from 2006 calling this a deliberately demeaning power play. I don't think it looks quite that sinister. More like a guy with a poor sense of boundaries trying to entertain a crowd and taking it too far.
Yeah she was treating him disrespectfully, and he should have responded in kind-- with words.
She has never commented on the incident.
Perhaps she saw how he felt, but I imagine the friendship ended that day.
She wasn't treating him disrespectfully, they were doing a bit for the audience. He put the mic in his mouth ffs. Dosent mean he should grope her in any scenario
@@Thesilliestofthemall77 maybe she consented to it for the bit
Of being groped by an elder statesman of the SF community on stage in front of thousands of people? In that case I apologise and withdraw. If not, the fact that you were not offended is still irrelevant. Only Connie Willis gets to say whether or not she should be offended by Harlan Ellison's actions.
That's true. Thus I'd give a lot more credence to her outrage if she had even come close to expressing it THEN>
Oh yeah, look at how she runs away in protest at 0:51
@@haroldnations I never understood this whole "why didn't she complain immediately" stuff. She's on a stage with one of the kings of sci-fi. He can destroy her professionally and the audience, who's yucking it up, is clearly with him. I mean he beat James Cameron in court, for christ's sake. Do you, as a victim at that moment, stop the whole show and be seen as someone with no sense of humor and even a cold shrew? You're lying if you say yes. She acted like she was expected to act as a professional and a subordinate to a living legend. He did what he did for the same reason all abusers do. Because he knew his status would allow him to get away with it and that someone like you would defend him to the bitter end.
@@haroldnations That's dumb, people don't get to choose then they're outraged by something, especially depending on their personality.
@@haroldnations And if she had shown immediate outrage she would have been slammed for not waiting until afterwards and being selfish toward everyone who was there for the show. Men will find a way to deny women credence one way or another-- they're excuses and not reasons.
This is Harlan being Harlan, and for as much as an acerbic, grouchy, loudmouth, cynical, and abusive person he is, he would never take such a liberty with somebody whom he didn't know well. Besides, if he really stepped across that line his wife Susan would have laid him out with a frying pan.
I was expecting something worth getting worked up about.
That's SJWs for you I guess. Let's go marching.
Inappropriate, sure, but hardly an international incident.
Straw man fallacy: nobody says it was. Just an old man behaving like a scumbag and not respecting the bodies of women.
Is she really tall or is he really short?
He is not in the running as the whirled's tallest man.
I mean i agree but i gotta say....you're the first i've run across that misspelled 'world' as 'whirled'
You ain't never heard of "Visualize whirled peas"? Shocked! I'm just shocked!
Oh i get it it's like a slogan. no i've never seen the bumper sticker
Shamelessly stolen from a slogan, yes.
I was told about this and I've watched this several times over, and I still don't see anything offensive...? Am I missing something???
+World Hero Animations Towards the end of the video, he grabbed her breast. It was not planned or consensual and it was not part of their shtick. Connie, reportedly, felt very violated by his actions, though he later left a nearly unintelligible voicemail on her phone apologizing for it. It is not very noticeable on the video, but I suspect that it mattered to Connie a great deal nonetheless. scendan.livejournal.com/586135.html
Or just a really short dude reached up to obviously tell her something and didn't reach high enough. The thing is we will never really know will we.
Your "being a chick" does not make you the final arbiter on whether or not Ellison's action was inappropriate or whether Willis was or should be upset by it. Thank goodness for that.
A woman and her dog.
Oh, come on. I'm a chick and I don't find this offensive in the least. They're clearly friendly enough that she's got an arm around him, he's tiny enough that there's nothing intimidating about him, and it was a brief touch more than a real grope in there =P The only thing that surprises me here is how adorable Ellison is.
It was no accident folks;it vwas just Harlan performing on stage to either make you laugh or get pissed off. Either way, he doesn't give a hoot. Willis didn't get upset, but just laughed because she has known him a long time and nothing he does shocks her. If you were offended, then take a leap into... well you'll think of something.
EXACTLY.
Harlan Ellison himself said he writes mostly to shock. And I'm certain he extended that to... just being.
If it shocks people, he's happy with it.
Then again, he's a self-proclaimed feminist, has been since the 70s at least, so just grabbing a tit isn't something he would do EVEN if he meant to shock.
It looks to me more like he's putting a hand on her collarbone and maybe slipped a little too low. He even covers his mouth in apology.
@@DrunkenCoward1 Looks to me like you seriously need glasses
Willis was very upset actually, just kept her composure on stage. He later apologised and got mad AT HER when she didn't except his half assed apologies
I would hardly call Harlan's actions assault. Did he cross a boundary? Yes, but he was just being a jackass on a stage to make the audience laugh. It looks like he regrets it almost immediately
"I'm Harlan ELLISON, dammit! I mean . . . I'm _somebody!_ Hell, I'm a genuine Personality! I'm famous for my antics, so I've gotta be . . . _shocking!_ And _irreverent!_ Or failing that, at least _memorable._ And since I have nothing funny or clever or new to say or do, hey - why not eat a microphone and then grab some boobage?"
sigh. this sort of forced-wacky shtick from desperately irreverent personalities is so depressing. i guess you've gotta keep that infamy wheel spinning . . . for fear you'll soon be forgotten entirely or something. for a person as notoriously "eccentric" and "obsessive" as Ellison, that had to have been the thinking behind this crass trash.
clearly for him it had _long_ since gotten beyond the point to just let your work speak for itself . . . so at this point stunts like this were probably as inevitable as they were unwelcome.
still though, _I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream_ is a _hell_ of a story. a HELL of a story.
Yeah I pretty much agree. In hindsight, it was a desperate attempt to maintain his reputation, which by that point had already been well established. He took "Are you gonna be good?" as a provocation. But at this age he should've known better. At least he owned up to it and apologized
I don't know, man. Eating the microphone was pretty funny.
Um, no. It just gives me a little added perspective since I've had similar experiences.
Who are you talking to
@@Nsmnsd197 Who are you talking to
He was hungry I guess
She wasn't the only one, and some of the people he groped were quite young. This time he did it in public.
This is the only instance I’ve ever seen or heard of Harlan “groping”. I know Harlan is an insensitive asshole, but you can’t just lay false claims at his door. The instance in this video is clear to see, even if it is a severely poor attempt at a joke, but just casually saying that he did it regularly without proof or merit is not ok
@@amanalone3473 Yeah I never heard any other incidents of Harlan groping. Here, he seems to wrap it into a misguided attempt at a comedy bit. A bad choice on his part, sure, but I don't see a whole lot of malice in it. Poor judgement? Absolutely.
HOWEVER, it's kinda disturbing how he repeatedly came to the defense of known and convicted pedophile Ed Kramer
poor woman.
This is what got people so worked up? Jesus, grow a pair and move on.
That's it?
hahaha, and I read articles and shit by women who said they can no longer read his work LOL
Exactly!
Trolling level: Harlan
STAINLESS STEEL RAT
Harry Harrison. relevance?
A lot of people got upset by this, but it's Harlan being Harlan! Connie Willis wasn't offended, so why does anybody else need to be
what a genius Harlan is:) love this guy.
She sure is >__> I don't remember what I said to get you so worked up so whatever
What an absolute lad.
Did you misspell 'arsehole'?
@@dalewatts1475 Did you misspell "based"?
@@BobExcaliburAh yes because groping a woman on stage is based.
So how many woman have you abused lately?
It was what used to be called banter
Holden Fitzroy Ha fuck off
@@pod831 i'm guessing ur joking, but if ur not - whether it's inherently used for reproduction is not what defines it as sexual or not. boobs are sexualised by both men and women. they're a sexual body part, and a private, erogenous area. i really hope you're not over the age of 12 and actually thinking it's fine to grope someone's privates...
He's like a little kid. I freaking love it. So often you see Harlan ranting and raving. It's nice to see him clowning around.
That was funny, and I think, I hope, that Connie would tell him that what he did was wrong in private. But it all looked like one big joke and Connie probably just found it funny. Who knows?
RIP
Asshole move, astoundingly funny
Love this guy
the motherfucker touched her