I know some web programming, I have created a few websites, but to me it got boring pretty quickly. All the stuff I had to do was very easy and I am not a designer, so all the cool designs were actually provided by a different person and I just followed them. Most of the features we needed were also pretty easy to implement with some JS. I do like the internet, but programming websites is not the same as using the internet. The website might connect people, but it's not like I really experience that as a programmer. I preffer desktop software, I feel like there is much more variety. In the past years I have done reverse engineering, machine learning, optimization, database management and more. It was way more interresting for me, but of course everyone has different preferences.
I am currently a senior computer engineering and have interests in reverse engineering, machine learning, and hardware. How have you been able to work in such a variety of fields?
I agree on many points. The learning curve for web development is much easier than figuring out software design. That's why you can have fairly proficient web developer after 3 months of coding bootcamp. I think people are mostly drawn into front end development because by changing html and css you can have instant gratification. You can see results immediately. Where on the other hand, writing software takes longer and you may not see any results for months. Hence, most of the people get discourage. You should mention that behind html and css code there are other languages that are crucial to websites' performance.
Web development just isn't html css, there are lots and lots of logic involved in frontend only and backend Is just logic. For frontend we use Html css along with javascript and for backend we can use anything from C to NODE to even something like Python. Also there are tool creation in Web so there is just so much to do in Web dev only.
Most webb programming is not "webb programming" any more, the web is often just the UI part of a really complicated system. There are many hard core tech stuff that needs to be solved. It just a small part that it is viewed in a browser.
Basically, for the technologist in some of us, developing web applications can provide some gratification due to the fact that these are systems that we have to build to scale (keyword is scale). Whereas, developing websites is the epitome of boredom. Really just HTML, CSS, and some PHP and you are good to go. You can call yourself a wEb DevElopEr. In general web programming kinda sucks because a lot of it can just be stitching together some code that relies on even more possibly unstable monolithic amounts of code that is abstracted away by some rando library. In other words, not all of us will be working on Google Search or Facebook.com.
There is one very powerful thing about web programming. With web technologies you can easily build user interfaces that are cross platform and will work on any device that has a web browser. While if you make a native application for a specific system and build your user interface in that, you have to usually do the same for every platform you want to support. Not only is it a lot more work for the developer, it also may tie the user to a certain operating system or environment.
Even surprising was "Major" in Electrical Engineering 8-9 years ago as said in the video at that time. Dayum! The guy may be a mild prodigy or something! Whatever! He explais things so greatly and clearly!
i agree with the points that DAVE made. I believe in today's day and age, having digital knowledge and knowing how to code is very basic. i have the worst degree anyone can have. a general business degree with no major or specialty and people think i will amount to nothing. But today i am doing digital marketing, having knowledge of online advertising and even helping companies to get rank in the top 3 positions of google plus i know how to do HTML, Javascript and CSS. my education in school has nothing to do with all these because i learn technology knowledge by myself and it has indeed helped me a long way. long story short - a person who is not technologically savvy will lose out in the long run. be like me, learn technology knowledge and i almost guarantee you, you will not have financial problems for at least the next 30 years.
I always get excited when I see your new video notifications. Learned a lot. The field is huge in comparison to other job fields, so I wish everyone the best at finding something. And... I like the terms Front End & Back End, but I can see why some don't.
The thing that absolutely slays me about front end development is that it's an inconsistent mess. Beyond that you constantly have tools taken from you as "frameworks" deprecate in months. Currently it seems like the browser is an anti pattern in software engineering. It's a catch all. The PDF of the software world. And on top of that, it is expected to open PDF. :) I'd much rather write software using libraries that have a very long shelf life in the language of my choice. The document model needs to go, pages are more program than page these days. And because of that we need to be able to write in any language we choose, not just transpile to JavaScript as a hack. Good video. Just my 2 cents.
Great Talk! and great insight! Thank you for sharing! I am not sure where I will be in the world of coding, I'm an old timer trying to learn code it's going to be a while before I get enough proficiency to be even employable or useful...Only time will tell in my part. Thank you again for this talk, keeps me motivated and gets me thinking about a lot of things related to coding/programming.
I started learning Web Dev coming from a Communications background. Yeah I’m a die hard technologist. I care more about the art of programming, computer science and real computer software that solves problems. The web and its frameworks bore me to tears. Everyone wants to watch a video make an ajax request to a weather api n build a shitty web app w/ react and call themselves a software developer.
less experience = more enjoyment, more experience = less enjoyment. you'd think it would be the opposite especially for the more experienced since you dont have to write your own GUI / know anything about tcl/tk or create a new networking client as the browser just does all of that for you. it's a boring blessing...
Hey, Just Discovered your channel and the content are extremely great. One question tho: I study CS (very similiar to the die-hard tech ppl that you described). No previous Web experience at all, like none HTML, CSS, JS, PHP. Like Nothing. But I really would like to at least start gaining some basic knowledge in this area to at open myself up to more opportunities. Any suggestions on how to start? Much appreciated.
I'm definitely biased but I don't think web development is as simple/boring as people make it out to be. It's no longer just basic HTML and CSS with some JS sprinkled on top. Now, a lot of web apps are built entirely with JavaScript using React and CSS-in-JS architectures. Frontend is continuously growing and there are always things to learn and ways to improve apps in terms of maintainability, performance, accessibility, SEO, etc. Not to mention that if you get bored of building UIs, you can always go towards building backend APIs or using web technologies on desktop and mobile platforms. Of course I can't convince anyone that honestly does not enjoy web development, but I think it's worth a go if you receive satisfaction from building products and seeing your work be put in front of many users quickly.
I'm a computer engineering student too. Can you make a video telling how you learnead all the skills you know nowadays? Cause that not the focus of computer/eletrical engineering, at least at my university. Thanks a lot!
Guilherme Lucas All these industrial skills like web, app development & various other stuff are not being taught anywhere in universities, all you will be taught in university is deep stuff like how does a programming language interact with hardware or how did all these logic of programming came from(Discrete Mathematics). There are various ways to learn all these technologies if you can pay for learning theese stuff i would suggest Udacity NanoDegree which focuses on project development & they offer in various fields like Web, App, Data Science etc.
Actually web is not "connecting a people". Internet is connecting a people. And internet is simply a transport which ships your data. And how would you use this transport is depends on you. I prefer to use this transport on the "native application" level instead of "script inside application" level.
Hey Dave, thanks for making these videos they are really useful! Just had a question.. basically is web development going to last as a career in the near future? Because people are saying websites like "WIX" essentially allows anyone to make a website for themselves so are web programmers going to redundant in the future?
If your job is to make simple websites for other people, then Wix might replace you. If a scalable service like Wix can replace what you do, then you might have to level up what you actually do-maybe you go work at Wix and make those tools instead of using the tools. When I say web development, I mean any technology that exists via the Internet. Making websites for people is a small small subset of that.
I only really have a problem with css, on paper it's a very easy language but everytime I try to lets say align/position a div its slightly off so I have to use the top/bottom and left/right properties to fix it, it shouldn't be like that, it should just bloody work!!!!!!!
I'm starting my junior year of computer science education in 2 weeks. I learned html, css, bootstrap(css framework), and some javascript over the summer and have made a few cool responsive websites. I'm looking at internship opportunities for summer 2018 on LinkedIn and other job boards and I'm worried that I may have focused too much on Web development projects and not enough on projects written in Java, C++, Python, etc. When I look at internship opportunities for the bigger companies they only seem to care about being proficient in object oriented programming and even machine learning. The baby projects I have done in my classes so far don't seem substantial enough to put on my resume. How big should I go with making projects in Java, C++, Python, etc? Make a full blown C++ application with a gui and all bells and wistles or an object recognition program using machine learning concepts and tensorflow with Python? I know the more impressive the project the better it communicates my abilities but what if I just want to get a decent mid level or even lower level company to intern at?
2:30 I don't know if i agree with him saying web development is not that technically complicated. Sure if you're just building a simple html website or using some website builder tool to host something simple, it's fairly easy. But when it comes to the level of building and managing huge scale websites that millions of people visit everyday, it is just as complicated as rocket science or making microchips.
I'm stuck. I have no idea what I wanna do with my CS degree. I'm graduating in May. I thought I wanted to do WebDev, but the internship I had, I just did not enjoy it. I'm looking now into more Systems Admin or IT security or QA. Blah. I feel so lost.
If you like math and problem solving. You will love software engineering as a job. If you also like design, you will live front end engineering (check out Sarah Drasner for cool animation code and VueJs).
Hey, you have exactly the same sentiment I had when college was ending. You shouldn't know what you want to do yet, but don't be too quick to dismiss something. You're still super young so should keep all possibilities open.
I love problem-solving but it depends on the math. I loved Discrete but hated Calculus. But, I am also very creative and have an artist background. I will just keep dabbling I guess.
David hit the nail on the head. All work will at some point in time be tedious. But I can promise you, based on what you say your likings are, you will love coding. You just need to find what excites you the most. I started with front end (being more creative myself) and though I loved math, I hated backend coding. Nowadays I enjoy all forms of coding. The initial hill was the problem. Getting to a point where you can use a craft to do something is what will be hard when starting out but make it worth doing at a later stage. So if I may encourage you, don't give up yet. You may still find what you like to do within software. One final word. Discipline... at the end of the day true freedom is enjoyed after doing hard work. It is only in practicing a piano relentlessly for years that you are made free to play a complex piece with mastery. The very same applies to software engineering.
Thank you so much for the video! I have a question: Do you think progressive web apps will phase out native mobile development anytime soon? I've started to transfer my react skills to react native, and I've enjoyed it so much I've started learning swift. I'm concerned that I might be wasting my time because a: companies will favor seasoned software engineers over web developers for roles in iOS and b: PWAs will be more prevalent in the coming years. Any thoughts?
I don't think native development is going to go anywhere. I think it'll still remain the #1 way to take advantage of a platform. React native is cool though and can give you re-usable code, UIs, across platforms if you do it well. Sometimes I think people get a little too crazy with trying to make everything re-usable. Like, let's do this in react native so we have it in android + iOS. Well there are always gonna be some things you can only do in Android or only do in iOS. React itself is pretty cool though. I'm not too familiar with it in mobile, but I've been dabbling it in on web.
What do you think about it now with AI getting involve with web and the constant grow of platforms like Shopify, BigSquare, Wix, Prestashop, WooCommerce etc...
I am a Web programmer and web development annoys me. I like the technology and how it gives you the power to do anything - make any UI with CSS, add any functionality, animations etc. to it using JavaScript and then handle your data any way you like on the Web Server (PHP/MySQL in most cases for me) either seamlessly via ajax or with different page requests and parameters. BUT the fact that web development is so flexible is the problem - clients will ask ANYTHING from you. And the bar to entry for someone to design a web thingy is so low that you just end up coding up the stupidest stuff on the planet! Seriously! A bunch of non-technical people get together and come up with some very weak ideas, then patch them up with random complicated features that aren't even designed to work together well. It is very demotivating for me to know that I am building something I know to be shit, yet really putting a lot of effort into crafting it in the most specific way, reviewing the idea in great detail and really polishing a smelly, smelly turd that looks like it came out of a high-school project... Not all companies are like that but I guess I need to work my way up the food chain if I want to find better projects :)
Hello Dave, my path is a little bit like yours. I had a master degree in electronics and signal processing. Now I'm trying to switch to web development. The problem I face is not actually learning the required skills, but most offer in my country require to have a degree in the field. Do you have any idea how compete with those who has the degree, and show to the companies that I'm also capable of developing product.
I have a question. By saying "Web Dev is not going anywhere", did you mean that it is bad in the future (not improving, not many opportunities), or it is better that it would stays the same in a good way? Sorry English is my 2nd language, that's why I'm confused. Thanks!
i like to believe im full stack, ill take a piece of raw metal, spin it, mill it, weld it, layout and populate a pcb, code firmware for it usually c++, create a front end to interact with the device, be it windows or mobile using c# or kotlin, lovely. But being forced to work in the web stack for the last 6 months I want to slit my throat. I haven't picked it up, haven't had the desire to force myself to do so. just hacking by until this god damn project ends.
If I need to I can concentrate 8 hours in one sit on a single problem. But with CSS within 5 minutes, I get so bored and annoyed... It's not even that I can't do it. I just hate to make everything look pixel perfect and choose colors and blablabla. I am a PHP programmer, and im getting bored with this too. Not because it's to easy but because I feel like it's not going anywere. It's the same shit every single time. 90% of everything I build is either database related, which is mostly done by the frameworks anyways. Or it has something to do with spreadsheats, xml whatever translating this into right amount of information and coupling data.... I find it interesting but so repetitve. I recently got another job which was offered to me which seemed to be more interesting. But now I quickly found out we're going to be using Bolt.cm which is crap based on YML files and other boring simple shit which I do not even want to figure out how they put it together. So I totally bashed the shit out of Bolt.cm and I am trying to make them switch to Laravel and use some composer packaged CMS. I hate badly written code by other developers which I have to 'fix' . When I'm at home working on my own projects I can really go on for an entire day without eating, or just snacking inbetween walks in my home to figure out some issue, it's just that I feel like at work it's a prison where I have to make a certain thing exactly to that specification and it's just boring man.... I really wish I could make more interesting things like fintech software, games or drivers and shit like that
At the end of the day web is an io device and the application you built should be a plug in that can plug into whatever io device. The infrastructure should not even care if it is in a web enviroment
I am web dev for 10 years, but frankly, it gets boring, I am doing ML/DL now and it is fun. There are many scope for other type of programming too, like performance, security, Automation, etc. There are lot of stuff people can do if they dont like frontend.
Hey Dave, This is Sagar from India. I really love web development but in India payscale for web developer is way too less compared to other software jobs & I want to move to USA to earn better but the possibility for a web developer to get a visa to work in USA is quite less, The easiest way for me to get to USA is Data Science but i am not that good with maths, I can understand things but it's sort of stressful for me. What should i do? I have been thinking about this for about past year, I am in the 2nd year of my engineering.
I can't give good advice on what's going to put you in a better position to get a visa. If you say it's Data Science, then I trust you. But if you need to specialize, you have to specialize. If you're bad at math, just get better at math. You are not naturally bad at it, you just haven't done it enough.
Uh, I can connect millions of people without the use of webdev... I do not see the validity in that argument. The company I work for is strictly webdev and OMFG just because you can code DOES NOT mean you can do anything/everything. These people lack so many other disciplines that they got their security wrong, they designed/implemented inefficient systems, completely disregard basic practices just to push code out. And then I come in and point all these things out and BAM they tell me to fix it, at an interns pay. I HATE WEB DEVELOPEPRS!!! Just coming out of a boot camp knowing js and angular/react or having some guru level css DOES NOT mean you can dabble in these other disciplines without a freaking clue. For goodness sakes, take a networking class, take a compsci class, take a security class if those are things you want to claim you can do, or at the very least research enough on the matter. Dont just create a variable bool isAdmin; and call that security.
No dislikes here, very great answer and explanation. HOWEVER - and perhaps I'm one of those die-hard technologists(and I'm not even anywhere near that level of expertise) - I find you are stating something dangerous: it has all been solved? We don't need to re-invent the wheel? I find this impossible to believe. Now, I don't mean to take you too literally at "all", but what I mean is I DO believe there are DEEP, FUNDAMENTAL, LOWEST-LEVEL "possible" changes that could change the whole game. Everything. Entire new paradigms, programming languages, operating systems, or even something that just doesn't have terminology invented for it yet. I am deeply disturbed by this trend. Firstly, because we will stretch the gap between the knowledge of working in that low level domain, to the point that it is unquestionable. Any groundbreaking change at that level would heavily disrupt everything on top of the unchanged. Not just unquestionable, but literally stagnant from lack of interest, to the point that all knowledge on the subject will be so old if not non-existent(please no Library of Alexandria repeats, I'm sure it can happen digitally, especially fueled by lack of interest) that it would feel like playing with electricity from square one. I'm not "too" worried, I believe development of Real-Time Operating Systems and related technologies - needed for future spaceships, space stations, mecha suits(oh yes xP), nanotechnology... gah, basically everything that is important for human survival and expansion. I must admit, I have a desire to take this to the extreme. I would "love" to "attempt" to reinvent so many wheels, and do such crazy things as use C or C++ like languages to "do" what web technologies do - even/especially the front end. To work higher and lower from "that" point of control. To master a language and paradigm made for systems engineers, make it so that it can function as a web technology, and yet hopefully set some pretty solid foundations that web technologies struggle in. It may seem like an unnecessary challenge, and surely I will explore web tech methods.. but I would like to extract what they did smartly and filter out the garbage. On another note, I want to avoid this dreaded "legacy" issue that holds back technological progress for the sake of "I don't want to break it". Break it all, rebuild it, break it again. We're so fresh here, I cannot fathom to assume we got it all right the first time. We made that mistake with the monetary system and it is still unchanged in its deepest flaws as an incentive system.
Regardless, I love this video because you speak on behalf of a mindset that I mostly just "assumed". It confirms that this is truly the state of mind at large. It is difficult what to feel about that, because I EXTREMELY love that a chunk of the majority is attempting programming AT ALL. Sadly though, so much of what I was excited about in terms of "more people learning programming" was improvement of concepts on these low levels - perhaps not lowest, but definitely lower than web technologies normally cover. Perhaps there is nothing to worry about in the long-run, for even if I feel we are "skipping" the important deep stuff, we're learning the important stuff that web tech currently provides. Then I suppose those devs will dive deeper and look back eventually, with fresh perspectives. Perhaps I just fear we will never look back. We probably will, but holy snapdragon is lack of interest of this level of programming still vastly low.
I'm not hate the web development, but things i hate from webdev are the toxic community, they say people must use their favorite library/framework and other framework are bad.
If you don't like web programming, then here is why you should like web programming... How about explain about all the alternatives to web development? Everyone knows about web programming because everyone uses the web. Misleading video. Relating people who don't like web development to cavemen who don't appreciate "the human factor" is not going to win you any friends. Maybe you're targeting this at your former self rather than everyone else.
Hey I have a couple questions for Dave, or anyone familiar w/ the computing field: Do you know if it is realistically feasible to shift from web to the "more technical" type of programming jobs. I am trying to find my first job out of college (computer engineering) and I am trying not to be too choosy... it seems that my skills gathered thus far best fit a web engineer role. However, I never got a chance to take a compilers course in school... will I be diminishing any opportunity of that if I take a web role?
Compilers are only a small subset of possible jobs. Of course if you want to write compilers, you should learn about them. Noone that I know, who has a CS degree, ever had any problems finding a job in a field they liked. Of course most don't work for Google or FB, but they found solid jobs even though none of them were the very best in the field.
I like data I find it interesting .I came up during the windows forms era then the web came around I hate web programming..but I have to do it. What I like about the current environment is the in the end it's data. Data ..everywhere..so is AI from my prospective data science is the new framework websites have been solved. AI has sort of been solved I can create models ....what do they mean? Knowing how and what they mean both seem interesting to me and at some point that replaces web pages as interesting (My winforms roll with it ) . The wheels on the bus keep turning ready for Qubits? That is the game changer about 10 years (It exists now) away maybe less what does that mean? Means you have to be on the bus to find out!
Web programming doesn't have "some challenges" - it's a huge ultra hard mess at this point. Anyone saying that it's easier than "real" programming doesn't have a clue!
I enjoy a lot of other stuff besides coding. Writing, reading, random things. None of which is "career" worthy. I still enjoy building stuff, I also enjoy helping people when I can, perhaps that could turn into a career. I think starting a company would be a fun journey, but I don't put that idea on a pedestal like a lot of people do.
![[RANT] - I just can't anymore... #webdev #coding #programming](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XG40j-9H9qc/mqdefault.jpg)
I know some web programming, I have created a few websites, but to me it got boring pretty quickly.
All the stuff I had to do was very easy and I am not a designer, so all the cool designs were actually provided by a different person and I just followed them. Most of the features we needed were also pretty easy to implement with some JS.
I do like the internet, but programming websites is not the same as using the internet. The website might connect people, but it's not like I really experience that as a programmer.
I preffer desktop software, I feel like there is much more variety. In the past years I have done reverse engineering, machine learning, optimization, database management and more. It was way more interresting for me, but of course everyone has different preferences.
I am currently a senior computer engineering and have interests in reverse engineering, machine learning, and hardware. How have you been able to work in such a variety of fields?
I love how you always say conclusions upfront. Amazing. Keep it up sir!
I agree on many points. The learning curve for web development is much easier than figuring out software design. That's why you can have fairly proficient web developer after 3 months of coding bootcamp. I think people are mostly drawn into front end development because by changing html and css you can have instant gratification. You can see results immediately. Where on the other hand, writing software takes longer and you may not see any results for months. Hence, most of the people get discourage. You should mention that behind html and css code there are other languages that are crucial to websites' performance.
You’ve never created a real web app then
Web development just isn't html css, there are lots and lots of logic involved in frontend only and backend Is just logic. For frontend we use Html css along with javascript and for backend we can use anything from C to NODE to even something like Python. Also there are tool creation in Web so there is just so much to do in Web dev only.
Most webb programming is not "webb programming" any more, the web is often just the UI part of a really complicated system. There are many hard core tech stuff that needs to be solved. It just a small part that it is viewed in a browser.
Basically, for the technologist in some of us, developing web applications can provide some gratification due to the fact that these are systems that we have to build to scale (keyword is scale). Whereas, developing websites is the epitome of boredom. Really just HTML, CSS, and some PHP and you are good to go. You can call yourself a wEb DevElopEr.
In general web programming kinda sucks because a lot of it can just be stitching together some code that relies on even more possibly unstable monolithic amounts of code that is abstracted away by some rando library.
In other words, not all of us will be working on Google Search or Facebook.com.
There is one very powerful thing about web programming. With web technologies you can easily build user interfaces that are cross platform and will work on any device that has a web browser. While if you make a native application for a specific system and build your user interface in that, you have to usually do the same for every platform you want to support. Not only is it a lot more work for the developer, it also may tie the user to a certain operating system or environment.
wait what? 10 years ago. I thought you were like 21 now lol
Asians don't age!
Even surprising was "Major" in Electrical Engineering 8-9 years ago as said in the video at that time. Dayum! The guy may be a mild prodigy or something! Whatever! He explais things so greatly and clearly!
i agree with the points that DAVE made. I believe in today's day and age, having digital knowledge and knowing how to code is very basic. i have the worst degree anyone can have. a general business degree with no major or specialty and people think i will amount to nothing. But today i am doing digital marketing, having knowledge of online advertising and even helping companies to get rank in the top 3 positions of google plus i know how to do HTML, Javascript and CSS. my education in school has nothing to do with all these because i learn technology knowledge by myself and it has indeed helped me a long way. long story short - a person who is not technologically savvy will lose out in the long run. be like me, learn technology knowledge and i almost guarantee you, you will not have financial problems for at least the next 30 years.
I always get excited when I see your new video notifications. Learned a lot. The field is huge in comparison to other job fields, so I wish everyone the best at finding something. And... I like the terms Front End & Back End, but I can see why some don't.
UI/front end stuff is boring for the technical, but I'm going to bet it's more rewarding for artistic people who like to design things.
The thing that absolutely slays me about front end development is that it's an inconsistent mess. Beyond that you constantly have tools taken from you as "frameworks" deprecate in months. Currently it seems like the browser is an anti pattern in software engineering. It's a catch all. The PDF of the software world. And on top of that, it is expected to open PDF. :) I'd much rather write software using libraries that have a very long shelf life in the language of my choice. The document model needs to go, pages are more program than page these days. And because of that we need to be able to write in any language we choose, not just transpile to JavaScript as a hack. Good video. Just my 2 cents.
I don't think that thinking about how powerful web is makes web development any better. People hate the process, not the idea behind it.
Great Talk! and great insight! Thank you for sharing! I am not sure where I will be in the world of coding, I'm an old timer trying to learn code it's going to be a while before I get enough proficiency to be even employable or useful...Only time will tell in my part. Thank you again for this talk, keeps me motivated and gets me thinking about a lot of things related to coding/programming.
Thank you! Best of luck
Hey what you do now how is it going?
I started learning Web Dev coming from a Communications background. Yeah I’m a die hard technologist. I care more about the art of programming, computer science and real computer software that solves problems. The web and its frameworks bore me to tears. Everyone wants to watch a video make an ajax request to a weather api n build a shitty web app w/ react and call themselves a software developer.
less experience = more enjoyment, more experience = less enjoyment. you'd think it would be the opposite especially for the more experienced since you dont have to write your own GUI / know anything about tcl/tk or create a new networking client as the browser just does all of that for you. it's a boring blessing...
How to set up my Razor V3XX for straight talk internet browsing
Thanks Dave for your video! Do you still work on web development or instead switch to machine learning / data science activity?
Hey, Just Discovered your channel and the content are extremely great.
One question tho: I study CS (very similiar to the die-hard tech ppl that you described). No previous Web experience at all, like none HTML, CSS, JS, PHP. Like Nothing. But I really would like to at least start gaining some basic knowledge in this area to at open myself up to more opportunities. Any suggestions on how to start? Much appreciated.
I'm definitely biased but I don't think web development is as simple/boring as people make it out to be. It's no longer just basic HTML and CSS with some JS sprinkled on top. Now, a lot of web apps are built entirely with JavaScript using React and CSS-in-JS architectures. Frontend is continuously growing and there are always things to learn and ways to improve apps in terms of maintainability, performance, accessibility, SEO, etc. Not to mention that if you get bored of building UIs, you can always go towards building backend APIs or using web technologies on desktop and mobile platforms.
Of course I can't convince anyone that honestly does not enjoy web development, but I think it's worth a go if you receive satisfaction from building products and seeing your work be put in front of many users quickly.
I fell like my little brother who is 14 now is going be able to make a website by 16. Because kid are taught web programming at school now.
I'm a computer engineering student too. Can you make a video telling how you learnead all the skills you know nowadays? Cause that not the focus of computer/eletrical engineering, at least at my university. Thanks a lot!
Guilherme Lucas All these industrial skills like web, app development & various other stuff are not being taught anywhere in universities, all you will be taught in university is deep stuff like how does a programming language interact with hardware or how did all these logic of programming came from(Discrete Mathematics).
There are various ways to learn all these technologies if you can pay for learning theese stuff i would suggest Udacity NanoDegree which focuses on project development & they offer in various fields like Web, App, Data Science etc.
Thanks Sagar. Learning online is really the path!
Thanks for gearing me up!
Thanks for your very valuable perspective
Actually web is not "connecting a people". Internet is connecting a people. And internet is simply a transport which ships your data.
And how would you use this transport is depends on you.
I prefer to use this transport on the "native application" level instead of "script inside application" level.
Web programming is easier and pays more. Sadly it's pretty boring in most cases, especially after doing it for a few years.
How about being a full stack dev- is that boring?
I am just doing it for few days and it's already soo boring
@@animeforever8508 you probably havent gotten to advanced topics yet, keep pushing. the first year or so can be pretty interesting and useful.
@@mattmarkus4868 thats what im referring to. Web programming requires front end and back end..
Very good video
Great insight, good to hear a different point of view...
App development in swiftUI and data science is way more interesting to me
i love your optimism but also you understand the other side of the coin.
Hey Dave, thanks for making these videos they are really useful! Just had a question.. basically is web development going to last as a career in the near future? Because people are saying websites like "WIX" essentially allows anyone to make a website for themselves so are web programmers going to redundant in the future?
If your job is to make simple websites for other people, then Wix might replace you. If a scalable service like Wix can replace what you do, then you might have to level up what you actually do-maybe you go work at Wix and make those tools instead of using the tools. When I say web development, I mean any technology that exists via the Internet. Making websites for people is a small small subset of that.
I only really have a problem with css, on paper it's a very easy language but everytime I try to lets say align/position a div its slightly off so I have to use the top/bottom and left/right properties to fix it, it shouldn't be like that, it should just bloody work!!!!!!!
I like the way you talk not too fast not too slow, reason through with layers :)
I'm starting my junior year of computer science education in 2 weeks. I learned html, css, bootstrap(css framework), and some javascript over the summer and have made a few cool responsive websites. I'm looking at internship opportunities for summer 2018 on LinkedIn and other job boards and I'm worried that I may have focused too much on Web development projects and not enough on projects written in Java, C++, Python, etc. When I look at internship opportunities for the bigger companies they only seem to care about being proficient in object oriented programming and even machine learning. The baby projects I have done in my classes so far don't seem substantial enough to put on my resume.
How big should I go with making projects in Java, C++, Python, etc? Make a full blown C++ application with a gui and all bells and wistles or an object recognition program using machine learning concepts and tensorflow with Python? I know the more impressive the project the better it communicates my abilities but what if I just want to get a decent mid level or even lower level company to intern at?
2:30 I don't know if i agree with him saying web development is not that technically complicated. Sure if you're just building a simple html website or using some website builder tool to host something simple, it's fairly easy.
But when it comes to the level of building and managing huge scale websites that millions of people visit everyday, it is just as complicated as rocket science or making microchips.
what if you only like web programing?
lol
I'm stuck. I have no idea what I wanna do with my CS degree. I'm graduating in May. I thought I wanted to do WebDev, but the internship I had, I just did not enjoy it. I'm looking now into more Systems Admin or IT security or QA. Blah. I feel so lost.
If you like math and problem solving. You will love software engineering as a job.
If you also like design, you will live front end engineering (check out Sarah Drasner for cool animation code and VueJs).
Hey, you have exactly the same sentiment I had when college was ending. You shouldn't know what you want to do yet, but don't be too quick to dismiss something. You're still super young so should keep all possibilities open.
I love problem-solving but it depends on the math. I loved Discrete but hated Calculus. But, I am also very creative and have an artist background. I will just keep dabbling I guess.
I will. I guess I'm just scared because I've always had somewhat of a plan or back - up, but now I just don't know. But, I should just relax. Thanks.
David hit the nail on the head. All work will at some point in time be tedious. But I can promise you, based on what you say your likings are, you will love coding. You just need to find what excites you the most.
I started with front end (being more creative myself) and though I loved math, I hated backend coding. Nowadays I enjoy all forms of coding. The initial hill was the problem. Getting to a point where you can use a craft to do something is what will be hard when starting out but make it worth doing at a later stage.
So if I may encourage you, don't give up yet. You may still find what you like to do within software.
One final word. Discipline... at the end of the day true freedom is enjoyed after doing hard work. It is only in practicing a piano relentlessly for years that you are made free to play a complex piece with mastery. The very same applies to software engineering.
True talk bro... Thanks.
I am the opposite, I tried web, and videogames, and For Now I want to try IOT or embedded !
Thank you so much for the video! I have a question: Do you think progressive web apps will phase out native mobile development anytime soon? I've started to transfer my react skills to react native, and I've enjoyed it so much I've started learning swift. I'm concerned that I might be wasting my time because a: companies will favor seasoned software engineers over web developers for roles in iOS and b: PWAs will be more prevalent in the coming years. Any thoughts?
I don't think native development is going to go anywhere. I think it'll still remain the #1 way to take advantage of a platform. React native is cool though and can give you re-usable code, UIs, across platforms if you do it well. Sometimes I think people get a little too crazy with trying to make everything re-usable. Like, let's do this in react native so we have it in android + iOS. Well there are always gonna be some things you can only do in Android or only do in iOS. React itself is pretty cool though. I'm not too familiar with it in mobile, but I've been dabbling it in on web.
I think the real long story short should just be: "job demand".
What was mentioned here is the reason that I WANT to do web programming!!
What do you think about it now with AI getting involve with web and the constant grow of platforms like Shopify, BigSquare, Wix, Prestashop, WooCommerce etc...
this is awesome.. I am coming to Jersey...love to get you on my podcast...twambit
thanks dude, love your work
+Dave Xiang hey man what did you use to record the vid?
iphone 6 selfie side
Developing IoT systems looks really fun.
I am a Web programmer and web development annoys me. I like the technology and how it gives you the power to do anything - make any UI with CSS, add any functionality, animations etc. to it using JavaScript and then handle your data any way you like on the Web Server (PHP/MySQL in most cases for me) either seamlessly via ajax or with different page requests and parameters. BUT the fact that web development is so flexible is the problem - clients will ask ANYTHING from you. And the bar to entry for someone to design a web thingy is so low that you just end up coding up the stupidest stuff on the planet! Seriously! A bunch of non-technical people get together and come up with some very weak ideas, then patch them up with random complicated features that aren't even designed to work together well. It is very demotivating for me to know that I am building something I know to be shit, yet really putting a lot of effort into crafting it in the most specific way, reviewing the idea in great detail and really polishing a smelly, smelly turd that looks like it came out of a high-school project... Not all companies are like that but I guess I need to work my way up the food chain if I want to find better projects :)
Where was this video recorded? cool buildings out there
Coming at this from a non-technical person who finds web development difficult, is there an easier form of programming to get started with?
Hi! thanks for all your videos,, God bless you !, for sharing your knowledge .
Geraldine Morro Warm, kind heart.
Hi
Useful advice! Really goes directly to the essence of the topic.
Hello Dave, my path is a little bit like yours. I had a master degree in electronics and signal processing. Now I'm trying to switch to web development. The problem I face is not actually learning the required skills, but most offer in my country require to have a degree in the field. Do you have any idea how compete with those who has the degree, and show to the companies that I'm also capable of developing product.
I have a question. By saying "Web Dev is not going anywhere", did you mean that it is bad in the future (not improving, not many opportunities), or it is better that it would stays the same in a good way? Sorry English is my 2nd language, that's why I'm confused. Thanks!
Duff Phan it means that web programming will always stay relevant in dave’s foreseeable future
i like to believe im full stack, ill take a piece of raw metal, spin it, mill it, weld it, layout and populate a pcb, code firmware for it usually c++, create a front end to interact with the device, be it windows or mobile using c# or kotlin, lovely. But being forced to work in the web stack for the last 6 months I want to slit my throat. I haven't picked it up, haven't had the desire to force myself to do so. just hacking by until this god damn project ends.
If I need to I can concentrate 8 hours in one sit on a single problem. But with CSS within 5 minutes, I get so bored and annoyed... It's not even that I can't do it.
I just hate to make everything look pixel perfect and choose colors and blablabla. I am a PHP programmer, and im getting bored with this too. Not because it's to easy but because I feel
like it's not going anywere. It's the same shit every single time. 90% of everything I build is either database related, which is mostly done by the frameworks anyways. Or it has something to do with spreadsheats, xml whatever translating this into right amount of information and coupling data.... I find it interesting but so repetitve. I recently got another job which was offered to me which seemed to be more interesting. But now I quickly found out we're going to be using Bolt.cm which is crap based on YML files and other boring simple shit which I do not even want to figure out how they put it together. So I totally bashed the shit out of Bolt.cm and I am trying to make them switch to Laravel and use some composer packaged CMS. I hate badly written code by other developers which I have to 'fix' . When I'm at home working on my own projects I can really go on for an entire day without eating, or just snacking inbetween walks in my home to figure out some issue, it's just that I feel like at work it's a prison where I have to make a certain thing exactly to that specification and it's just boring man.... I really wish I could make more interesting things like fintech software, games or drivers and shit like that
Wonderful stuff, thanks
Hey man you got helicopters flying over your head and people running in your back at 6:18
What's going on? :D
Hey Dave. Do you live in New York?
Yea I do at the moment, been here since early 2014.
Awesome. Just recently moved here from SA.
Maybe well have a runin at a meetup.
At the end of the day web is an io device and the application you built should be a plug in that can plug into whatever io device. The infrastructure should not even care if it is in a web enviroment
You are amazing!
you motivated me thanks love from Pakistan !!
I am web dev for 10 years, but frankly, it gets boring, I am doing ML/DL now and it is fun. There are many scope for other type of programming too, like performance, security, Automation, etc. There are lot of stuff people can do if they dont like frontend.
Hey, are you in Boulevard east?
Hey Dave, This is Sagar from India. I really love web development but in India payscale for web developer is way too less compared to other software jobs & I want to move to USA to earn better but the possibility for a web developer to get a visa to work in USA is quite less, The easiest way for me to get to USA is Data Science but i am not that good with maths, I can understand things but it's sort of stressful for me. What should i do?
I have been thinking about this for about past year, I am in the 2nd year of my engineering.
I can't give good advice on what's going to put you in a better position to get a visa. If you say it's Data Science, then I trust you. But if you need to specialize, you have to specialize. If you're bad at math, just get better at math. You are not naturally bad at it, you just haven't done it enough.
Working with React I build web apps that are quite similar to software.
Uh, I can connect millions of people without the use of webdev... I do not see the validity in that argument. The company I work for is strictly webdev and OMFG just because you can code DOES NOT mean you can do anything/everything. These people lack so many other disciplines that they got their security wrong, they designed/implemented inefficient systems, completely disregard basic practices just to push code out. And then I come in and point all these things out and BAM they tell me to fix it, at an interns pay. I HATE WEB DEVELOPEPRS!!! Just coming out of a boot camp knowing js and angular/react or having some guru level css DOES NOT mean you can dabble in these other disciplines without a freaking clue. For goodness sakes, take a networking class, take a compsci class, take a security class if those are things you want to claim you can do, or at the very least research enough on the matter. Dont just create a variable bool isAdmin; and call that security.
Can you describe what you have to do on your job?
Very informative
I did a little HTML project back in High School and...I don't know. Web programming just seems so mundane and boring to me and super tedious to learn.
As a tech coder the web is actually harder state problem than application desktop programs. Web dev is always on, there is no reboot option.
That was excellent.
NN
No dislikes here, very great answer and explanation. HOWEVER - and perhaps I'm one of those die-hard technologists(and I'm not even anywhere near that level of expertise) - I find you are stating something dangerous: it has all been solved? We don't need to re-invent the wheel?
I find this impossible to believe. Now, I don't mean to take you too literally at "all", but what I mean is I DO believe there are DEEP, FUNDAMENTAL, LOWEST-LEVEL "possible" changes that could change the whole game. Everything. Entire new paradigms, programming languages, operating systems, or even something that just doesn't have terminology invented for it yet.
I am deeply disturbed by this trend. Firstly, because we will stretch the gap between the knowledge of working in that low level domain, to the point that it is unquestionable. Any groundbreaking change at that level would heavily disrupt everything on top of the unchanged.
Not just unquestionable, but literally stagnant from lack of interest, to the point that all knowledge on the subject will be so old if not non-existent(please no Library of Alexandria repeats, I'm sure it can happen digitally, especially fueled by lack of interest) that it would feel like playing with electricity from square one.
I'm not "too" worried, I believe development of Real-Time Operating Systems and related technologies - needed for future spaceships, space stations, mecha suits(oh yes xP), nanotechnology... gah, basically everything that is important for human survival and expansion.
I must admit, I have a desire to take this to the extreme. I would "love" to "attempt" to reinvent so many wheels, and do such crazy things as use C or C++ like languages to "do" what web technologies do - even/especially the front end. To work higher and lower from "that" point of control. To master a language and paradigm made for systems engineers, make it so that it can function as a web technology, and yet hopefully set some pretty solid foundations that web technologies struggle in.
It may seem like an unnecessary challenge, and surely I will explore web tech methods.. but I would like to extract what they did smartly and filter out the garbage. On another note, I want to avoid this dreaded "legacy" issue that holds back technological progress for the sake of "I don't want to break it". Break it all, rebuild it, break it again. We're so fresh here, I cannot fathom to assume we got it all right the first time. We made that mistake with the monetary system and it is still unchanged in its deepest flaws as an incentive system.
Regardless, I love this video because you speak on behalf of a mindset that I mostly just "assumed". It confirms that this is truly the state of mind at large. It is difficult what to feel about that, because I EXTREMELY love that a chunk of the majority is attempting programming AT ALL.
Sadly though, so much of what I was excited about in terms of "more people learning programming" was improvement of concepts on these low levels - perhaps not lowest, but definitely lower than web technologies normally cover.
Perhaps there is nothing to worry about in the long-run, for even if I feel we are "skipping" the important deep stuff, we're learning the important stuff that web tech currently provides. Then I suppose those devs will dive deeper and look back eventually, with fresh perspectives. Perhaps I just fear we will never look back. We probably will, but holy snapdragon is lack of interest of this level of programming still vastly low.
I'm not hate the web development, but things i hate from webdev are the toxic community, they say people must use their favorite library/framework and other framework are bad.
Very nice video .......... please guide about artificial intelligence and career scope after bachelor's and masters degree
Thank You Boss
well said...
If you don't like web programming, then here is why you should like web programming...
How about explain about all the alternatives to web development? Everyone knows about web programming because everyone uses the web. Misleading video. Relating people who don't like web development to cavemen who don't appreciate "the human factor" is not going to win you any friends. Maybe you're targeting this at your former self rather than everyone else.
this video don't give the answer . I am hoping to do business analysis job . but I have to do projects in web developing to complete my degree .
Hey I have a couple questions for Dave, or anyone familiar w/ the computing field: Do you know if it is realistically feasible to shift from web to the "more technical" type of programming jobs. I am trying to find my first job out of college (computer engineering) and I am trying not to be too choosy... it seems that my skills gathered thus far best fit a web engineer role.
However, I never got a chance to take a compilers course in school... will I be diminishing any opportunity of that if I take a web role?
Compilers are only a small subset of possible jobs. Of course if you want to write compilers, you should learn about them.
Noone that I know, who has a CS degree, ever had any problems finding a job in a field they liked. Of course most don't work for Google or FB, but they found solid jobs even though none of them were the very best in the field.
Play your video at 1.5x and witness just how shaky it is.
I love Web Programming but I seem to not be able to pickup HTML and CSS ? WHY?! Help please.
lack of practice probably
I like data I find it interesting .I came up during the windows forms era then the web came around I hate web programming..but I have to do it. What I like about the current environment is the in the end it's data. Data ..everywhere..so is AI from my prospective data science is the new framework websites have been solved. AI has sort of been solved I can create models ....what do they mean? Knowing how and what they mean both seem interesting to me and at some point that replaces web pages as interesting (My winforms roll with it ) . The wheels on the bus keep turning ready for Qubits? That is the game changer about 10 years (It exists now) away maybe less what does that mean? Means you have to be on the bus to find out!
Nice
6:26-6:33 XD funny stuff man
Web programming doesn't have "some challenges" - it's a huge ultra hard mess at this point. Anyone saying that it's easier than "real" programming doesn't have a clue!
YOU REPEAT YOURSELF A LOT! But nice video though. I gained some knowledge.
hey...budddy im from india i wanna become like you....what type of job would you doing...and ur a really motivating,....us
Yo, thx for kind words. Software developer right now, not sure if it's forever, but so far so good I think. Take care.
Dave Xiang Just wondering, what your other interests for a career would be? Have you ever thought of starting you're own company?
I enjoy a lot of other stuff besides coding. Writing, reading, random things. None of which is "career" worthy. I still enjoy building stuff, I also enjoy helping people when I can, perhaps that could turn into a career. I think starting a company would be a fun journey, but I don't put that idea on a pedestal like a lot of people do.
hi