You missed the bit about where the manager decides to go to a low cost country, takes on a whole team for the price of a costa then all hell breaks loose.
@mohansampath3981 Because in the long run it'll cost more when the app is garbage and needs the full stack developer to rewrite it. Been there more than once.
I was a fullstack dev for 15 years then went to a company where they divided the work by roles. One significant thing I noticed is each role became much more complex. When you have people dedicated to just deployment, they're going to make deployment sooo over-engineered. Likewise for frontend, testing and the rest. As fullstack, we were forced to be somewhat simple in comparison. We're couldn't introduce 10 new paradigms and libraries in every layer of the solution, there's just not enough time in the day. Honestly some layers were a bit neglected (no unit tests or whatever). But dear god, it was so much more sane overall.
Absolutely agreed and this is what is happening at my work every day! And I spent a lot of time to convince we do not need to over engineer every single thing which makes the entire process so fragile.
I hear you. And that not getting the middle management, who thinks they know what they are doing but don't. I'm right in this space now, and solved a over budget project taking 8 months in 10 days. Start to end completed and working.
The last minute is the key to the whole video. Software development in 2024 is about understanding the parts of an application and working in tandem with generative AI to build full stack applications very quickly. That's not quite as easy as it sounds, but that's where things are going.
This is a good point. I think AI is a great companion for full-stack devs or generalists like me with a good but rather mediocre knowledge along the whole way. After heavy coding with AI support for the last 2 months I can clearly see how much AI makes me faster. I'm looking forward to the day where it knows my whole code base, the specs, the architecture and the design at any point as the project goes on.
As someone who has been a full stack dev for over 15 years I found this very entertaining, working with a massive team for the last few months and just doing front end for them. You can see how simple things takes ages to implement in big organisations. Full-stack to me has meant being a one man band and I have been the sole app engineer for multiple companies over the years, even building internal desktop app while shipping web apps at the same time.
Sir, thank you so much for this encouraging video. I graduated with my Bachelor's in Computer Science in December 2022, took a year off to travel and pursue other things, and now I've been struggling with finding a new job (my current doesn't pay well and doesn't use my degree) and I've been doubting whether full-stack web development is really a viable or safe choice for me. But, with this video, I'm inspired to not give up.
Not always possible but dont wait for a job to code. Instead, code so you can get the job easier. Working on a solving real world problem with code will help you infinitely more. Some examples: 1- Learning to code means you start to see digital solutions to everyday problems whereever you go. This means you can get almost any job and find a way to add value via coding (whether your role is a dev or not) 2 - In any dev interview, you will come across as a much more valuable hire than the guy who simply studied at uni and waited for a job to apply thier "skills". Good hiring managers are more interested in aptitude for problem solving more than theoretical knowledge. plenty more but you get the gist. Do some full stack projects and stick to it and you might not even need the "tech" job ;)
"You dont need a fancy UI" - Basically everyone agrees that boring and simple UI's are best, no need for parallax scrolling or complicated hover animations
One of the greatest videos I have ever seen about software development process! ...They should make a movie about this, especially today when everything is getting too complicated for absolutely no reason. It seems everyday there is a new field being formed to put some layers on software development.
UX designer who does true UX, not just pixel pushing (which can be replaced with tailwind) and proficient in FE Dev, paired with a true full stack is the ideal pairing in my experience and can scale.
thats why freelancing is so nice it's because most of the times you have these situations where there is you, and the client, without having 50 layers of middle management and 20 other developers working all on different parts of the same app , maybe you have two or three guys and they get the job done when our teacher used to teach us system design and computer systems architecture i couldnt even believe that there was people hiring a guy just to talk to them and draw diagrams and write documents and a bit of sql here and there because in my mind i always was thinking hey how can i make an app from a to z... that's why i got into web dev in the first place to make apps because i have the dream to one day live off my own mini apps and be able to be financially free... and to be frank i am at that point, i still have a ton to learn but i can make projects from a to z ... and man that is soooo satisfying when you see that you can actually build something and see it come to life just by typing text on a screen FUNNY how the front end dev says to ai build me an app in react 19 even if react 19 is still in RC and isnt even stable yet .... 10:14
You are confusing freelancing with contracting. If you provide a service to a client, you're a contractor, even if the 'contract' is only verbal. The client tells you what he wants and has the final say. The contractor almost always relinquishes the IP to the client and so cannot sell it to anyone else. A freelancer is someone who conceives and creates a product of his own design, on his own time, and then markets it. The freelancer retains the rights to the product and can keep selling it to as many willing buyers as he can find.
Wow, my company has all the various roles. They just laid off all the middle managers to hit the EBITA target, but most of the engineers were left alone. This really hits home as a backend developer who also touches devops, customer stuff, business folks. This is the best video I’ve seen on a long time to ad perspective to my experience.
Excellent video. Thank you for emphasizing the core problem, which most people do not ever learn much about or properly understand; central banking. The Fed. By inflating the money supply, distorts markets and creates asset bubbles, and people become accustomed to a standard of living that isn’t real or sustainable. What goes up, must come down. The higher and more rapid the climb, the harder the fall. Developers became accustomed to specializing in part of the stack, which also inflated tech stacks. There are mountains of code and outrageous, unnecessary new complexity in every aspect of the stack now - particularly in front-end. We’re mostly still just creating CRUD on the internet, like we were 2 decades ago with a fraction of this cruft! Tech labor is massively overpriced due to The Fed inflating the money supply and it must necessarily deflate. I welcome a return to sanity and look forward to capitalizing again as a career full stack dev.
You are half way there friend. When the FED expands the money supply, as it has done repeatedly to bail out factions of the ruling class, last time it was in 2008, it creates fictitious capital. Capital is, in the final analysis, nothing but a claim on the surplus value able to be extracted from the working class by the capitalist class. Sooner or later, this fictitious capital must extract the corresponding surplus value, or its "pound of flesh" from the working masses ans the wages and living standards go down and they work more for less....etc etc This is fundamentally how Capitalism works for the last 300 years or so of its existance.
Go to some big companies and the BE is just read from databases and send to FE. Backend now needs more work and BE devs doesn't like but when they use apps or websites with smooth, responsive and easy layout they like it lool
You could say that a Product Manager with experience in AI, backend, frontend, and UX/UI could handle the task effectively ⚡🎯. Personally, I enjoy working independently-ironically, the more people involved in a project, the longer it tends to take.
Excellent video! Now let’s look at the worst case scenario: middle manager signs a contract for 10 offshore “bodies” at $18K / year per body. Add in management and fees: ~$200K. A year goes by. The offshore team pads the work to take the whole year. No one knows what they are doing. The middle manager can’t go back to their boss and admit they made a huge mistake. They are locked into the contract. The company never delivers and goes under. I’ve seen this play out in real time. If the company or project isn’t completely dead at this point - THEN they bring in a full stack dev - who if he’s smart - will nuke the whole repo (if there even is one …) and start over. But sometimes they never learn - and hire a second offshore agency … another year goes by …
My views as FS with +20 years of experience. I was when work was split in FE + BE and also when split in FE UX + FE Business Domain + BE + DevOps. Rates played a role but also apps are way more complicated now than 20 years. But I like your last point. Yes!, as FS with AI can virtually do all on my own
Starting out I didn’t know what to specialize in and everyone had an opinion of what end, stack, etc. So glad I stuck to what I like which was just learn it all, full stack.
Two years ago, I began as a frontend developer, and now I've evolved into a full-stack developer with AWS Certified Solutions Architect Associate certification. I'm passionate about full-stack development because it encompasses every stage of application development, from initial requirements to deployment.
Great video! As a full-stack developer for over a decade, I have seen the changing development landscape and the issue with middle managers. The last minute was the icing on the cake. Thanks for showing the truth, Ed!
Full-stack means the business can come to you with a concept, and you’re able to work with them to develop the entire application, front to back. UI to business logic to database to deployment. It was the norm when I started 26 years ago and I’ve been through the process countless times. It means you need to have at least somewhat developed your soft skills as well, especially if you hope to operate your own business as a consultant.
"believe it or not, the whole thing" - Bro I felt that lmfao. It is wild to me how many people went to school for four years and can only make some literal buttons in some weird obscure JS framework
Yes. the full stack dev can half azz an app together, in the short term. You make a good point about free money. Yes, I can dev all the parts and integrate and test, but you need a team of specialists, not a couple of generalists. Great video !!!!
This is a great video. I've seen this change happening for a while, the generalists are going to win big. The missing piece of this video is that you might as well be the business owner as a full stack developer at this point 😅
@@edandersen By the way, I took your advice from one of your videos about learning MVC first. It really helped me understand APIs and routing. I've made huge progress towards becoming a Full Stack developer. Thanks a lot!
Not only, I'm 38 and somehow life kept me away from learning code through school and chose a different path, just learned a tiny bit as a hobby. Never ever I have programmed something fully, till AI came out. I have an idea for an app in my industry and couldn't find investors and the developers I try to hire just squezed every penny I had without results. A year later I learned with AI full stack development (it's incredibly easy if uou put your time and attention on it). At this point I am confident I can build it entirely on my own (already have lots of the code built and working). Still we are far from being accessible for most people. I don't think any of us can imagine yet how much everything will change and is understandable. We have different life experiences and knowledge so we are all limited by how much we know and understand. The possibilities in the near future are limitless.
The team the recruiter delivers has 6 out of 8 as deadweights, one guy will get fired early to assert a reign of fear, and the remaining guy will be a full stack dev thereafter. Welcome to the crew, dude!
This has happened because everyone thought that even a bachelor degree teaches what you need to know. Not going to lie but school did not start teaching how to build software until I got into my masters level classes. They force me to do all the roles alone. Make smart decisions based on that. How to budget, design, plan, all of it. Undergrad and bootcamp don't do all of that. So we have specialists instead of engineers and people are realizing that I could pay so much money for a team or just pay azure a couple thousand a month and let engineers do what they do, which is build scalable software quick and cheap to upkeep. I've been telling people that the only people who KEEP all those roles are companies where money is no object. If you were to redo a kitchen do you hire a interior designer and then a contractor or a really good contractor? Option 2 is best especially since the realy good contractor will be able to tell you how ,much it will cost. Something the designer can't do since they don't understand the process
I'm from east EU. I agree in the past I was fullstack becasue I worte in JSP/JSF/jQuery (FE) with Spring (BE). I also setup env and do BA job. I was one men army. Now I see that new SPA apps often works the same like old one in JSF and we need a team of specialist for the same result. Funny thing people in India sometimes create apps in old-school stack with JSP and companies buying it - it's cheap and it works! Today I'm skilling React and is time to refresh Angular.
I commented on another video recently, agreeing about the complexity of the .NET universe. This is another brilliant video. I may be a bit old fashioned, but I never really saw the upside of only knowing the front or the back end. If you can land a job with one, surely you can improve your chances and or scope with both / all of it? Thanks, Ed! I will continue to pursue full stack.
This makes so much sense. I was hired on as a backend developer in 2021 along with like 2 others that year. The company I worked for had 3 frontend developers and 3 backend developers including me and we had 3 senior developers who are also backend developers. So 6 backend developers in total. Well... it's 2024, interests rates are high again and so the need for my job disappears and I get laid off. And now I'm a backend developer scrambling to learn frontend frameworks to get a full-stack development position. [sigh] 🙄
Working in a team is sometimes necessary. But I think yes we should work as full stack dev in team. The project is divided based on modules - I am assigned a module, I create its backend, frontend, api integration, and I take the blame as well as the praise for this module.. This would work much better.. Finally we can have a Full stack lead who will maintain whole deployment, planning, DBA etc.... so maybe 3-4 people are ok with large projects.
I agree with you that low budget companies eventually are inclined to hire full stack devs because it gets cheaper for them. I have worked in such companies too. But bigger companies like Google always have the budget and always have the inclination to hire specialists. So if someone likes to work in low budget almost broke small companies maybe fullstack development is the route to go.
@@diamondbeats2024 yes. Stay consistent and don’t pressure yourself into learning things quickly. Programming is about solving problems. Writing the code is the easy part. Which is why you need to get good at finding solutions.
Ed, really love the scenarios in your video! I know these are presented in humour, but sadly, I have seen them all play out! My speciality is as a full-stack dev, but having been in the industry for over 30 years, founded a couple of startups and managed many large projects, I have experience of all the roles you list. Yet organisations still want to pigeon-hole me which prevents me from delivering greatest value because many of my skills are not being used. The problem here is management specifying solutions (when they should be detailing their problems) and the majority of IT personnel specifying the technology without understanding what the business problem is or whether the latest 'trendy' framework (eg React, node and a whole host of others) is applicable for it. It's akin to the 'honey pot' syndrome - when there's a pot of money, everyone will devise a way to get some of it even if they are not entitled to it. Until we have mandated requirements for properly qualified and licensed people in our industry in positions of authority, none of this is going to change. Good video!
By the way DBAs don't manage stored procedures, they manage day to day running and maintenance of the database (this includes the security of the database something devs don't think about). They may performance tune sql procs if they are a dev DBA, but they don't generally develop the stored procs or even maintain them. When companies get rid of their DBAs, they are asking to have their data dumped out on the dark web or worst yet completely wiped out. I am not a DBA, although I have had to perform DBA tasks on dev and qa databases.
traditionally yeah, that was the case. but as you've noticed the DBAs are still around even when there aren't servers to administer and they've taken up data modelling and schema design.
@@edandersen DBAs have always done data modeling and schema design. Generally, this fell on Dev DBAs whereas the Production DBAs maintained the production databases. There are still plenty of servers to maintain even when they have been ported to cloud platforms. The big issue I have seen personally at some of the companies I have worked with is that they have outsourced their DBAs to the Network admin. So, for example at one company when the dev/qa databases ran out of disk space the solution was to increase the size of the diskspace. I went in and shrunk the database logs and effectively recovered 75% of the disk space. But, none of the other devs knew how to shrink log files and they didn't have DBAs to manage their systems.
I believe it would be beneficial to hire a UX/UI engineer-someone who can design the visuals, ensure a great user experience (UX), and implement the frontend. Of course, this depends on the specific product. Personally, I think that strong aesthetic impressions in the user interface are crucial. In my opinion, someone focused solely on programming might struggle to create an intuitive and user-friendly interface. It's like building a house without blueprints-unless, of course, you buy a pre-made design.
Hello, thanks for those reason well explained.. The end was great.. answer a question for the manager by a question.. what a useless step. Asking AI to build someting to a fullstack developer.. just ask to fullstack developer to build it, will be easier.. Nice job
The cloud-based LMS systems I've implemented and developed since 2009 dealt with full stack and devOps, having direct communication and collaboration with stakeholders directly expedited the lifecycle and mitigated risks and I wouldn't have it any other way!
My experierence with full stack devs is that they can indeed build and deploy apps by themselves, but the quality, maintainability and scalability is usually nowhere near the quality a large growing business needs that needs to keep up with that app for 10 or 15 years. Sure, a full stack dev can do backend, but it's not gonna be as sturdy and future-proof as the backend that a specialist would build. Yea, the front-end is nice and shiny, but tends to lack the true, deeper levels of proper UX and subtile communication that a full-time designer would implement. A full stack dev is great for small and medium-sized companies. But once a company seriously scales, it's going to need specialists. A full stack dev who can do literally anything, will never on the existence of the planet have the opportunity to be a skilled in ANY of the things as a specialist, and sooner or later that will cause a burden.
Yeah that's a fair take, although I would argue that in some cases the full stack dev is the only person with the bigger picture who understands how everything can fit together. in larger orgs then, this person is perfect for technical leadership, as they can actually speak the language of FE, BE, Infra etc, even if their aren't total experts. thanks for the comment!
You would probably keep the Front End Dev along with QA as backup to the Full Stack Dev...this happened at the company I work for. I started out as a Jr dev and transitioned to a Front End Dev and then a back up FullStack dev if something happened to them...which it did
I’m a year and a half in as a self taught developer and I can build a full stack app from scratch using typescript. Still haven’t applied for any jobs because I’m learning docker and Langchain, maybe then I’ll feel ready.
Ed I loved your video. It's very ASMR! I am a proud Full-Stack, and I've done Front-End, Back-End, Dev-Ops, DBA, Mobile Dev, QA, as separate roles. I know all of the levels of the stack, and I can build something from scratch and get it to production in time and within budget. But my biggest problem is: where can I find those 200K projects? Thanks!
I live in France so I don't know if it's the same in the US, but there is a problem that is not taken into account here: the outsourcing of developers. If I take your examples again, it's as if with 200k we could recruit 10 developers in India and pay them 10k each. Even if it has its constraints, many companies, which only see the money saved, will not hesitate to choose this option
😄 that was quite amusing. I agree with most of it when it comes to technical side of the work only. In my case, I would say that business analyst would still be pertinent in all dev projects as it does much more than just talking to clients and get requirements. At least, if the BA is a good BA, he could help the dev build the thing way quicker without doing many iterations
yeah absolutely. my tenuous argument is that in most cases the dev can do some of the BA work if they have to, but the other way around is much rarer. thanks for the comment!
There is some truth to this. The problem with this is only that before 2008 we also had high demand and low supply of Full Stack Devs. Now we have much more supply (I'd argue more than demand) for several reasons. More devs in the world, better qualified offshore devs around the world (also comes together with remote work having a better reputation now). It was inevitable that this is going to happen...
It's good to have fullstack back absolutely. The question is, the software dev don't have a deadline? If it were for 6 months for a 8 crew team to get it done, how long it would be for only one?
I think full stack will mean a person with more Infrastructure Engineering background than backend or frontend. AI and React automate many of the task in backend and frontend development
This was fun. I disagree with the 200K full-stack only example. I bet the middle manager would only offer 150K to the full stack dev so he could keep 50K for himself - "take it or leave it, there's lots of devs looking for jobs now".
What kind of jobs are available at Coinbase? Should I focus on an area of Full Stack? Someone mentioned I should learn front end first, then later backend because its more involved... I'd like to work in cryptocurrency somewhere... I'm a beginner about to take a class for either front or full... thanks for the video
I agree that a full-stack developer can and should be able to do everything you mentioned. However, time is a major concern. If you had the right team with only the necessary people, such as a frontend developer, a backend developer, and QA, the development time would likely be shorter. Or, just 3 full-stack developers. 😉 A full-stack developer could handle everything, but it would take more time since parallel work wouldn't be possible. This might cost a bit more, but releasing a product quickly is often worth it.
@@edandersen As I mentioned in my previous comment, I believe that 3 full-stack developers could do the job. However, a generalist may not be as fast as a specialized developer in their specific area (depending on their experience, of course). But it's highly dependent on the individual. I’m a full-stack developer myself, but from my experience, it would probably take me 2 to 3 times longer to build a frontend than it would take a dedicated frontend developer, since most of my knowledge is in the backend.
Interesting video. My question is: how does a junior dev break into the industry if full stack becomes the trend? I've been working on my first full stack project, but I have a hard time imagining that someone will entrust me with their app as a recent CS grad with no professional experience.
my first job out of college was as a fullstack engineer - i was just thrusted into the position at a small start-up. for reference, i focused on compilers and programming languages during undergrad. options today are more powerful and make the full stack development aspect easier (eg. NextJS). i think AI helps significantly but is not make or break; for example, i like using github's copilot but it's primarily to save time/my hands (less RSI), not magically write all the code i need. you'll be fine!
In my experience, downward pressure on salaries is largely due to offshoring, especially in the past two years since business started to revolve around Teams.
Do the same style video with software lifecycle e.g migration - compare full stack with a team in the backdrop of low interest rates and high interest rates.
I would have to somehow disagree based on my experience. I’ve worked in many organizations and team setups, and while I’ve done things on my own several times, the best places to work were those with a good set of business analysts and strong QA engineers. I’m talking about relatively large and complex applications, not just simple apps. Having people in these roles helps a lot, especially when dealing with a large number and different types of users and needs. For now, AI will not replace a skilled team covering different technical domains that works together, increasing the likelihood that things are done right.
I think you may have just convinced me to focus on Blazor/MAUI and Line of Business apps. I'm never going to write the next Facebook. But I can do some good line of business work. What better than a full stack tool that ties in to the "standard" corporate cloud?
Please consider subscribing if you haven't already 🙏 really encourages me to make more videos. Thanks!
Done
This is like ASMR for full stack devs.
Lol pretty much
Exactly hahah enjoying it so far!
The slides worked well. I had attention the whole time 👍
Thanks!
You missed the bit about where the manager decides to go to a low cost country, takes on a whole team for the price of a costa then all hell breaks loose.
That's fine he still has to go back to the full stack hero.
This has been known to happen yes
@mohansampath3981 Because in the long run it'll cost more when the app is garbage and needs the full stack developer to rewrite it. Been there more than once.
If this works, why all developers are not from "low cost country" ;)
@@Apofisbg that's the trend
I was a fullstack dev for 15 years then went to a company where they divided the work by roles. One significant thing I noticed is each role became much more complex. When you have people dedicated to just deployment, they're going to make deployment sooo over-engineered. Likewise for frontend, testing and the rest.
As fullstack, we were forced to be somewhat simple in comparison. We're couldn't introduce 10 new paradigms and libraries in every layer of the solution, there's just not enough time in the day. Honestly some layers were a bit neglected (no unit tests or whatever). But dear god, it was so much more sane overall.
yep, if all you focus on is a tiny slice then the temptation to make it as over complicated as possible. thanks for the comment!
Absolutely agreed and this is what is happening at my work every day! And I spent a lot of time to convince we do not need to over engineer every single thing which makes the entire process so fragile.
I hear you. And that not getting the middle management, who thinks they know what they are doing but don't. I'm right in this space now, and solved a over budget project taking 8 months in 10 days. Start to end completed and working.
@@waynehawkins654 Nice one!
the most likely if not constant motivation for over-engineering is job security, from what I have witnessed.
The last minute is the key to the whole video. Software development in 2024 is about understanding the parts of an application and working in tandem with generative AI to build full stack applications very quickly. That's not quite as easy as it sounds, but that's where things are going.
Yes that’s the whole point these dys 😂
Ai is not useful… ffs stop watching this bullshit, create a new youtube account if you already ruined this one with ai crap
This is a good point.
I think AI is a great companion for full-stack devs or generalists like me with a good but rather mediocre knowledge along the whole way.
After heavy coding with AI support for the last 2 months I can clearly see how much AI makes me faster. I'm looking forward to the day where it knows my whole code base, the specs, the architecture and the design at any point as the project goes on.
Your middle manager is very fair. Normally they want 250k from a 300k project :)
Yes, and I have yet to meet a middleman who works with zero profit in the continuation of this story.
As someone who has been a full stack dev for over 15 years I found this very entertaining, working with a massive team for the last few months and just doing front end for them. You can see how simple things takes ages to implement in big organisations. Full-stack to me has meant being a one man band and I have been the sole app engineer for multiple companies over the years, even building internal desktop app while shipping web apps at the same time.
The perfect amount of developers on a project is 1.
Won‘t work all the time, but I’m convinced about it.
Story of my software career.
I agree, until that one dev gets very sick or burned out and progress stops completely
If you cannot work in a team, you are not a good software developer.
@@akashbadgujar5825 No doubt about it. But it doesn’t contradict my statement. In fact, they need to be good team players, because of it.
Yeah it's nice right, never being critiqued by others about your technical output /s
Sir, thank you so much for this encouraging video. I graduated with my Bachelor's in Computer Science in December 2022, took a year off to travel and pursue other things, and now I've been struggling with finding a new job (my current doesn't pay well and doesn't use my degree) and I've been doubting whether full-stack web development is really a viable or safe choice for me. But, with this video, I'm inspired to not give up.
same story here mate
Not always possible but dont wait for a job to code. Instead, code so you can get the job easier. Working on a solving real world problem with code will help you infinitely more. Some examples:
1- Learning to code means you start to see digital solutions to everyday problems whereever you go. This means you can get almost any job and find a way to add value via coding (whether your role is a dev or not)
2 - In any dev interview, you will come across as a much more valuable hire than the guy who simply studied at uni and waited for a job to apply thier "skills". Good hiring managers are more interested in aptitude for problem solving more than theoretical knowledge.
plenty more but you get the gist. Do some full stack projects and stick to it and you might not even need the "tech" job ;)
"You dont need a fancy UI" - Basically everyone agrees that boring and simple UI's are best, no need for parallax scrolling or complicated hover animations
you certainly don't need parallax scrolling!
One of the greatest videos I have ever seen about software development process! ...They should make a movie about this, especially today when everything is getting too complicated for absolutely no reason. It seems everyday there is a new field being formed to put some layers on software development.
UX designer who does true UX, not just pixel pushing (which can be replaced with tailwind) and proficient in FE Dev, paired with a true full stack is the ideal pairing in my experience and can scale.
yeah absolutely!
thats why freelancing is so nice it's because most of the times you have these situations where there is you, and the client, without having 50 layers of middle management and 20 other developers working all on different parts of the same app , maybe you have two or three guys and they get the job done
when our teacher used to teach us system design and computer systems architecture i couldnt even believe that there was people hiring a guy just to talk to them and draw diagrams and write documents and a bit of sql here and there
because in my mind i always was thinking hey how can i make an app from a to z... that's why i got into web dev in the first place to make apps because i have the dream to one day live off my own mini apps and be able to be financially free... and to be frank i am at that point, i still have a ton to learn but i can make projects from a to z ... and man that is soooo satisfying when you see that you can actually build something and see it come to life just by typing text on a screen
FUNNY how the front end dev says to ai build me an app in react 19 even if react 19 is still in RC and isnt even stable yet .... 10:14
great comment, thanks.
Building something from a-z is a great experience. And understanding the whole thing of development lifecycle is just awesome 😎
You are confusing freelancing with contracting. If you provide a service to a client, you're a contractor, even if the 'contract' is only verbal. The client tells you what he wants and has the final say. The contractor almost always relinquishes the IP to the client and so cannot sell it to anyone else. A freelancer is someone who conceives and creates a product of his own design, on his own time, and then markets it. The freelancer retains the rights to the product and can keep selling it to as many willing buyers as he can find.
@@alfgit8784 Where did you get your freelance definition from?
Wow, my company has all the various roles. They just laid off all the middle managers to hit the EBITA target, but most of the engineers were left alone. This really hits home as a backend developer who also touches devops, customer stuff, business folks. This is the best video I’ve seen on a long time to ad perspective to my experience.
Excellent video. Thank you for emphasizing the core problem, which most people do not ever learn much about or properly understand; central banking. The Fed. By inflating the money supply, distorts markets and creates asset bubbles, and people become accustomed to a standard of living that isn’t real or sustainable. What goes up, must come down. The higher and more rapid the climb, the harder the fall. Developers became accustomed to specializing in part of the stack, which also inflated tech stacks. There are mountains of code and outrageous, unnecessary new complexity in every aspect of the stack now - particularly in front-end. We’re mostly still just creating CRUD on the internet, like we were 2 decades ago with a fraction of this cruft! Tech labor is massively overpriced due to The Fed inflating the money supply and it must necessarily deflate. I welcome a return to sanity and look forward to capitalizing again as a career full stack dev.
You are half way there friend. When the FED expands the money supply, as it has done repeatedly to bail out factions of the ruling class, last time it was in 2008, it creates fictitious capital. Capital is, in the final analysis, nothing but a claim on the surplus value able to be extracted from the working class by the capitalist class. Sooner or later, this fictitious capital must extract the corresponding surplus value, or its "pound of flesh" from the working masses ans the wages and living standards go down and they work more for less....etc etc
This is fundamentally how Capitalism works for the last 300 years or so of its existance.
Go to some big companies and the BE is just read from databases and send to FE. Backend now needs more work and BE devs doesn't like but when they use apps or websites with smooth, responsive and easy layout they like it lool
as a QA engineer I appreciated thanos snap taking us out last 😂
I appreciate you!
😅😅😅 what a nice story, I will keep this locally and always watch it as a reminder to admire my role as a full stack Dev.
i aspire to be where and who you are. but tonight, alas i am not yet...
@@diamondbeats2024 don't worry my good friend, you will get there. Just keep at it.
Having all of the dotnet experience, people judge me a lot. To this day, I can still put a decent ui together. Great Video
You could say that a Product Manager with experience in AI, backend, frontend, and UX/UI could handle the task effectively ⚡🎯. Personally, I enjoy working independently-ironically, the more people involved in a project, the longer it tends to take.
Excellent video! Now let’s look at the worst case scenario: middle manager signs a contract for 10 offshore “bodies” at $18K / year per body. Add in management and fees: ~$200K. A year goes by. The offshore team pads the work to take the whole year. No one knows what they are doing. The middle manager can’t go back to their boss and admit they made a huge mistake. They are locked into the contract. The company never delivers and goes under.
I’ve seen this play out in real time.
If the company or project isn’t completely dead at this point - THEN they bring in a full stack dev - who if he’s smart - will nuke the whole repo (if there even is one …) and start over.
But sometimes they never learn - and hire a second offshore agency … another year goes by …
bleak lol. thanks for the comment!
This happens a lot of times!
My views as FS with +20 years of experience. I was when work was split in FE + BE and also when split in FE UX + FE Business Domain + BE + DevOps. Rates played a role but also apps are way more complicated now than 20 years. But I like your last point. Yes!, as FS with AI can virtually do all on my own
even when the apps are large and complex I'd prefer a team of full stack devs than trying to split the work up. thanks for the comment!
Finally someone understands what’s going on and explains it too
thanks!
Starting out I didn’t know what to specialize in and everyone had an opinion of what end, stack, etc. So glad I stuck to what I like which was just learn it all, full stack.
Two years ago, I began as a frontend developer, and now I've evolved into a full-stack developer with AWS Certified Solutions Architect Associate certification. I'm passionate about full-stack development because it encompasses every stage of application development, from initial requirements to deployment.
Great video! As a full-stack developer for over a decade, I have seen the changing development landscape and the issue with middle managers. The last minute was the icing on the cake. Thanks for showing the truth, Ed!
Full stack does not mean web and database. It means knowing how to get a concept from concept to production.
I think it means both. Full stack devs can actually build an whole app by themselves and ship it, not just part of an app
@@edandersen It's not just front-end and backend, it's all the stuff in between. Dev-ops, IT, SME, Marketing, PR, Finance, a million other things.
@keyser456 I'm not saying full stack devs should do the accounts. But they can do the DevOps in a lot of cases
Full-stack means the business can come to you with a concept, and you’re able to work with them to develop the entire application, front to back. UI to business logic to database to deployment. It was the norm when I started 26 years ago and I’ve been through the process countless times. It means you need to have at least somewhat developed your soft skills as well, especially if you hope to operate your own business as a consultant.
but depending on the budget they can do 90% effectively considering they use AI n stuff 😂
I shared the same thought with a friend few months ago, AI tools makes fullstack job faster, frontend guys should buckle up
"believe it or not, the whole thing" - Bro I felt that lmfao. It is wild to me how many people went to school for four years and can only make some literal buttons in some weird obscure JS framework
This video is so motivating for me as a full-stack developer. It is absolutely great.
Yes. the full stack dev can half azz an app together, in the short term. You make a good point about free money. Yes, I can dev all the parts and integrate and test, but you need a team of specialists, not a couple of generalists. Great video !!!!
A team of full stack generalists works well too IMO.
@@edandersen then they pay a specialist to check and fix when they try to scale. Saw companies go back from fullstack only due to this problem
@@rafaelnunes567 That's fine! At least they got to market cheaper/quicker
This is a great video. I've seen this change happening for a while, the generalists are going to win big. The missing piece of this video is that you might as well be the business owner as a full stack developer at this point 😅
So say we all
Loved the storytelling with slides
Thanks! I'm trying out lots of different formats
@@edandersen By the way, I took your advice from one of your videos about learning MVC first. It really helped me understand APIs and routing. I've made huge progress towards becoming a Full Stack developer. Thanks a lot!
Nice!
Not only, I'm 38 and somehow life kept me away from learning code through school and chose a different path, just learned a tiny bit as a hobby. Never ever I have programmed something fully, till AI came out. I have an idea for an app in my industry and couldn't find investors and the developers I try to hire just squezed every penny I had without results. A year later I learned with AI full stack development (it's incredibly easy if uou put your time and attention on it). At this point I am confident I can build it entirely on my own (already have lots of the code built and working). Still we are far from being accessible for most people. I don't think any of us can imagine yet how much everything will change and is understandable. We have different life experiences and knowledge so we are all limited by how much we know and understand. The possibilities in the near future are limitless.
Yep AI dev tools will definitely help the idea guys get to MVP. Thanks for the comment!
As a full-stack dev, I most definitely agree with you! Not for my own sake really. You make quite the objective analysis!
The team the recruiter delivers has 6 out of 8 as deadweights, one guy will get fired early to assert a reign of fear, and the remaining guy will be a full stack dev thereafter. Welcome to the crew, dude!
Bleak lol
This has happened because everyone thought that even a bachelor degree teaches what you need to know. Not going to lie but school did not start teaching how to build software until I got into my masters level classes. They force me to do all the roles alone. Make smart decisions based on that. How to budget, design, plan, all of it. Undergrad and bootcamp don't do all of that. So we have specialists instead of engineers and people are realizing that I could pay so much money for a team or just pay azure a couple thousand a month and let engineers do what they do, which is build scalable software quick and cheap to upkeep. I've been telling people that the only people who KEEP all those roles are companies where money is no object. If you were to redo a kitchen do you hire a interior designer and then a contractor or a really good contractor? Option 2 is best especially since the realy good contractor will be able to tell you how ,much it will cost. Something the designer can't do since they don't understand the process
Exactly man this really *isses me off, you go in blind thinking your covered.
The programming journey is way deeper than what they teach at bachelors
This was quite entertaining and easy to pay attention to. Always like videos that spin a story to get their points across.
I'm from east EU. I agree in the past I was fullstack becasue I worte in JSP/JSF/jQuery (FE) with Spring (BE). I also setup env and do BA job. I was one men army. Now I see that new SPA apps often works the same like old one in JSF and we need a team of specialist for the same result. Funny thing people in India sometimes create apps in old-school stack with JSP and companies buying it - it's cheap and it works! Today I'm skilling React and is time to refresh Angular.
You have provided a business-side view of the tech job market, which is awesome and informative for an average developer like me to know. 👍
thanks! it's just entertainment though don't take it as realistic
I commented on another video recently, agreeing about the complexity of the .NET universe. This is another brilliant video. I may be a bit old fashioned, but I never really saw the upside of only knowing the front or the back end. If you can land a job with one, surely you can improve your chances and or scope with both / all of it? Thanks, Ed! I will continue to pursue full stack.
You gave me hope. Thank you.
Man, this was so funny, especially watching it as a SWE, who had many of the roles mentioned throughout my career.
Glad you liked it!
This makes so much sense. I was hired on as a backend developer in 2021 along with like 2 others that year. The company I worked for had 3 frontend developers and 3 backend developers including me and we had 3 senior developers who are also backend developers. So 6 backend developers in total. Well... it's 2024, interests rates are high again and so the need for my job disappears and I get laid off. And now I'm a backend developer scrambling to learn frontend frameworks to get a full-stack development position. [sigh] 🙄
it's tough out there. thanks for the comment
I'll teach you frontend if you teach me backend :P (My story is similar to yours, but opposite 😄)
Working in a team is sometimes necessary. But I think yes we should work as full stack dev in team. The project is divided based on modules - I am assigned a module, I create its backend, frontend, api integration, and I take the blame as well as the praise for this module.. This would work much better.. Finally we can have a Full stack lead who will maintain whole deployment, planning, DBA etc.... so maybe 3-4 people are ok with large projects.
Teams of full stack devs, each with their own strengths and weakneses, really are unstoppable in my opinion. Thanks for the comment!
these slides were nice should make more of em
I agree with you that low budget companies eventually are inclined to hire full stack devs because it gets cheaper for them. I have worked in such companies too. But bigger companies like Google always have the budget and always have the inclination to hire specialists. So if someone likes to work in low budget almost broke small companies maybe fullstack development is the route to go.
It's true!
I'm a full stack developer, i totaly agree with you
As a full stack developer hobbyist, this makes me happy knowing that my job is secure.
Well, I can't prove its secure but in the grand scheme of things, I find flexible generalists tend to survive.
im 18 days into my online front end dev program im just learning. any advice you have for someone just starting out?
@@diamondbeats2024 yes. Stay consistent and don’t pressure yourself into learning things quickly. Programming is about solving problems. Writing the code is the easy part. Which is why you need to get good at finding solutions.
@@diamondbeats2024 figure out an app you want to build for yourself and build it
Project based learning @@edandersen
I was going to comment on the unnecessary positions … and then I arrived to minute 7:30 jejeje I couldn’t be more agree 👍
Ed, really love the scenarios in your video! I know these are presented in humour, but sadly, I have seen them all play out!
My speciality is as a full-stack dev, but having been in the industry for over 30 years, founded a couple of startups and managed many large projects, I have experience of all the roles you list. Yet organisations still want to pigeon-hole me which prevents me from delivering greatest value because many of my skills are not being used.
The problem here is management specifying solutions (when they should be detailing their problems) and the majority of IT personnel specifying the technology without understanding what the business problem is or whether the latest 'trendy' framework (eg React, node and a whole host of others) is applicable for it. It's akin to the 'honey pot' syndrome - when there's a pot of money, everyone will devise a way to get some of it even if they are not entitled to it.
Until we have mandated requirements for properly qualified and licensed people in our industry in positions of authority, none of this is going to change.
Good video!
thanks for the comment! much appreciated
Great breakdown, enjoyed the humour! Subscribed!
Awesome, thank you!
By the way DBAs don't manage stored procedures, they manage day to day running and maintenance of the database (this includes the security of the database something devs don't think about). They may performance tune sql procs if they are a dev DBA, but they don't generally develop the stored procs or even maintain them. When companies get rid of their DBAs, they are asking to have their data dumped out on the dark web or worst yet completely wiped out. I am not a DBA, although I have had to perform DBA tasks on dev and qa databases.
traditionally yeah, that was the case. but as you've noticed the DBAs are still around even when there aren't servers to administer and they've taken up data modelling and schema design.
@@edandersen DBAs have always done data modeling and schema design. Generally, this fell on Dev DBAs whereas the Production DBAs maintained the production databases. There are still plenty of servers to maintain even when they have been ported to cloud platforms. The big issue I have seen personally at some of the companies I have worked with is that they have outsourced their DBAs to the Network admin. So, for example at one company when the dev/qa databases ran out of disk space the solution was to increase the size of the diskspace. I went in and shrunk the database logs and effectively recovered 75% of the disk space. But, none of the other devs knew how to shrink log files and they didn't have DBAs to manage their systems.
I believe it would be beneficial to hire a UX/UI engineer-someone who can design the visuals, ensure a great user experience (UX), and implement the frontend. Of course, this depends on the specific product. Personally, I think that strong aesthetic impressions in the user interface are crucial. In my opinion, someone focused solely on programming might struggle to create an intuitive and user-friendly interface.
It's like building a house without blueprints-unless, of course, you buy a pre-made design.
That can definitely help. Thanks for the comment!
We rely a lot on AB tests so what do we need UX people for if they don't know anyway??
I just love your humor. Definitely subscribing.
The nightmare starts when the full stack dev has to give support to the app and, at the same time, fix bugs, implement new features, etc.
yeah one man bands aren't sustainable, but a team of full stack devs works well
This is the best entertainment content i've ever seen on dev videos
glad you enjoyed it but please don't take it too seriously lol
I loved it when you dropped the DBA and you still asked who was that?! LOL! Great video, thanks for the content.
Hello, thanks for those reason well explained..
The end was great.. answer a question for the manager by a question.. what a useless step.
Asking AI to build someting to a fullstack developer.. just ask to fullstack developer to build it, will be easier.. Nice job
I make more money being a front-end developer than being a fullstack developer. I like it! Less responsibility, and more money.
Sounds great!
Thanks for the video! Loved your take on fullstack comeback!
That makes a lot of sense! As a fullstack dev, I'm about to surf the new waves! Hahah
Maybe the power to build a whole app and not just a third of one be in your hands!
im glad i found this channel.
Wow You really convinced me to fullstack 😂 very beautiful work chef
The cloud-based LMS systems I've implemented and developed since 2009 dealt with full stack and devOps, having direct communication and collaboration with stakeholders directly expedited the lifecycle and mitigated risks and I wouldn't have it any other way!
sounds great!
The most hated guy is always that middle guy 😄😄
Anyway, I love the video. It was new and informative to me.
Thank U.
Thank you for sharing the truths of industry. Greetings from Turkey 🙏
My experierence with full stack devs is that they can indeed build and deploy apps by themselves, but the quality, maintainability and scalability is usually nowhere near the quality a large growing business needs that needs to keep up with that app for 10 or 15 years. Sure, a full stack dev can do backend, but it's not gonna be as sturdy and future-proof as the backend that a specialist would build. Yea, the front-end is nice and shiny, but tends to lack the true, deeper levels of proper UX and subtile communication that a full-time designer would implement. A full stack dev is great for small and medium-sized companies. But once a company seriously scales, it's going to need specialists. A full stack dev who can do literally anything, will never on the existence of the planet have the opportunity to be a skilled in ANY of the things as a specialist, and sooner or later that will cause a burden.
Yeah that's a fair take, although I would argue that in some cases the full stack dev is the only person with the bigger picture who understands how everything can fit together. in larger orgs then, this person is perfect for technical leadership, as they can actually speak the language of FE, BE, Infra etc, even if their aren't total experts. thanks for the comment!
Fully agree, this is the reality!
10-15 years?? Lol dude
@@denisblack9897
My thoughts....
You would probably keep the Front End Dev along with QA as backup to the Full Stack Dev...this happened at the company I work for. I started out as a Jr dev and transitioned to a Front End Dev and then a back up FullStack dev if something happened to them...which it did
This was really engaging, I like your style! 👌
more where that came from!
@edandersen Looking forward to them, didn't get bored at any point in the whole vid 😆
I’m a year and a half in as a self taught developer and I can build a full stack app from scratch using typescript. Still haven’t applied for any jobs because I’m learning docker and Langchain, maybe then I’ll feel ready.
Ed I loved your video. It's very ASMR! I am a proud Full-Stack, and I've done Front-End, Back-End, Dev-Ops, DBA, Mobile Dev, QA, as separate roles. I know all of the levels of the stack, and I can build something from scratch and get it to production in time and within budget.
But my biggest problem is: where can I find those 200K projects?
Thanks!
the 200k project is just a metaphor really. but with your skillset you'll be perfect as a CTO in a small firm
@@edandersen many thanks!
I'm not a full stack dev but I really liked this video!
I live in France so I don't know if it's the same in the US, but there is a problem that is not taken into account here: the outsourcing of developers. If I take your examples again, it's as if with 200k we could recruit 10 developers in India and pay them 10k each. Even if it has its constraints, many companies, which only see the money saved, will not hesitate to choose this option
and they'll get what they pay for :-)
@@edandersen yes but in the meantime, many of us who aren't at senior level yet are being fired
😄 that was quite amusing. I agree with most of it when it comes to technical side of the work only. In my case, I would say that business analyst would still be pertinent in all dev projects as it does much more than just talking to clients and get requirements. At least, if the BA is a good BA, he could help the dev build the thing way quicker without doing many iterations
yeah absolutely. my tenuous argument is that in most cases the dev can do some of the BA work if they have to, but the other way around is much rarer. thanks for the comment!
There is some truth to this. The problem with this is only that before 2008 we also had high demand and low supply of Full Stack Devs. Now we have much more supply (I'd argue more than demand) for several reasons. More devs in the world, better qualified offshore devs around the world (also comes together with remote work having a better reputation now). It was inevitable that this is going to happen...
u gained a new subscriber here, i approve everything u are saying!! with Ai, a full stack dev can do more in short time
This is the best video I've seen since the interest rates have gone up! lol
I completely agree with you. But I'm not a full-stack developer. I've been a developer for over 30 years and that includes everything.
In this period where i read some bad comments about full stack developer this video is very nice
It's good to have fullstack back absolutely. The question is, the software dev don't have a deadline? If it were for 6 months for a 8 crew team to get it done, how long it would be for only one?
probably 12 months.
Great video. Thanks for making this.
This was one of the funniest videos I've seen in a while!
I think full stack will mean a person with more Infrastructure Engineering background than backend or frontend. AI and React automate many of the task in backend and frontend development
yeah it's looking that way
Great vid Ed. Educational and entertaining
I love the story approach 😂I just subscribed.
thanks!
So what you are saying is "just be able to do everything, and you will be a desirable employee". Hard to argue with that :)
I’m saying you just need to be a generalist, and you certainly need to be able to actually build a whole app by yourself and deploy it
lol! This one made me subscribe. Love the slides.
thanks for giving in in the end 😀
Amazing video, more on the IT business please :)
This was fun. I disagree with the 200K full-stack only example. I bet the middle manager would only offer 150K to the full stack dev so he could keep 50K for himself - "take it or leave it, there's lots of devs looking for jobs now".
quite possibly. thanks for the comment!
What kind of jobs are available at Coinbase? Should I focus on an area of Full Stack? Someone mentioned I should learn front end first, then later backend because its more involved... I'd like to work in cryptocurrency somewhere... I'm a beginner about to take a class for either front or full... thanks for the video
finally someone who understands that interest rates are the main thing
Nice, thanks for sharing and is true.
I agree that a full-stack developer can and should be able to do everything you mentioned. However, time is a major concern. If you had the right team with only the necessary people, such as a frontend developer, a backend developer, and QA, the development time would likely be shorter. Or, just 3 full-stack developers. 😉 A full-stack developer could handle everything, but it would take more time since parallel work wouldn't be possible. This might cost a bit more, but releasing a product quickly is often worth it.
How about a team of 2 or 3 full stack devs?
@@edandersen As I mentioned in my previous comment, I believe that 3 full-stack developers could do the job. However, a generalist may not be as fast as a specialized developer in their specific area (depending on their experience, of course). But it's highly dependent on the individual. I’m a full-stack developer myself, but from my experience, it would probably take me 2 to 3 times longer to build a frontend than it would take a dedicated frontend developer, since most of my knowledge is in the backend.
Umm, I’m a full stack dev. But I need my QA and Infra. The rest can do without in the short term yes.
the point was that in theory you could do without. you'd just make the infra simple
Interesting video. My question is: how does a junior dev break into the industry if full stack becomes the trend? I've been working on my first full stack project, but I have a hard time imagining that someone will entrust me with their app as a recent CS grad with no professional experience.
my gut feel is that juniors will be expected to now use AI to catch up.
@@edandersen Thank you for your response.
my first job out of college was as a fullstack engineer - i was just thrusted into the position at a small start-up. for reference, i focused on compilers and programming languages during undergrad.
options today are more powerful and make the full stack development aspect easier (eg. NextJS). i think AI helps significantly but is not make or break; for example, i like using github's copilot but it's primarily to save time/my hands (less RSI), not magically write all the code i need. you'll be fine!
In my experience, downward pressure on salaries is largely due to offshoring, especially in the past two years since business started to revolve around Teams.
Do the same style video with software lifecycle e.g migration - compare full stack with a team in the backdrop of low interest rates and high interest rates.
I would have to somehow disagree based on my experience. I’ve worked in many organizations and team setups, and while I’ve done things on my own several times, the best places to work were those with a good set of business analysts and strong QA engineers. I’m talking about relatively large and complex applications, not just simple apps. Having people in these roles helps a lot, especially when dealing with a large number and different types of users and needs. For now, AI will not replace a skilled team covering different technical domains that works together, increasing the likelihood that things are done right.
yep for large complex apps it certainly helps to have those support roles. proper QA engineers especially. thanks for the comment!
I think you may have just convinced me to focus on Blazor/MAUI and Line of Business apps. I'm never going to write the next Facebook. But I can do some good line of business work. What better than a full stack tool that ties in to the "standard" corporate cloud?