Oh, boy! Sixty years on, and, a lot of faded memories, and, I'm absolutely amazed to be re-acquainted with this practice rifle. I was a 15 year old Air Cadet in Preston Lancashire in the UK. We had one in the armoury, along with Lee-Enfields' and a Browning 303 from a WW2 Spitfire, or, Hurricane. We were trained on this Swift rifle before being allowed to go out on the range to use the Lee-Enfield. We kids enjoyed the Swift to bits! Preferring to use that than go out on the range. We used bulls-eye targets to 220 yard scale - it proved to be very accurate and familiarised us with the bolt action before using the real thing. The comment about the officers thinking it was a prank were far off the mark, idiotic in their assumptions. But, then, the mentality of British officers from that period, I'm not surprised! Most of them came from so called upper class families with not an original thought between the ears - let alone know how to use a battle rifle. The Webley revolver was all they cared about. Take it from me, given the chance to own one of these, I'd jump at it - more so, if it came with the frame contraption to hold the gun and target. All these years and I couldn't remember the name of this gun, and now, it's made my day - Thank you Forgotten Weapons - I owe you one! Kindest regards, Bill.
Oh, boy! Sixty years on, and, a lot of faded memories, and, I'm absolutely amazed to be re-acquainted with this practice rifle. I was a 15 year old Air Cadet in Preston Lancashire in the UK. We had one in the armoury, along with Lee-Enfields' and a Browning 303 from a WW2 Spitfire, or, Hurricane. We were trained on this Swift rifle before being allowed to go out on the range to use the Lee-Enfield. We kids enjoyed the Swift to bits! Preferring to use that than go out on the range. We used bulls-eye targets to 220 yard scale - it proved to be very accurate and familiarised us with the bolt action before using the real thing. The comment about the officers thinking it was a prank were far off the mark, idiotic in their assumptions. But, then, the mentality of British officers from that period, I'm not surprised! Most of them came from so called upper class families with not an original thought between the ears - let alone know how to use a battle rifle. The Webley revolver was all they cared about. Take it from me, given the chance to own one of these, I'd jump at it - more so, if it came with the frame contraption to hold the gun and target. All these years and I couldn't remember the name of this gun, and now, it's made my day - Thank you Forgotten Weapons - I owe you one! Kindest regards, Bill.
We found one of these in an armory while I was in basic in 2005, once we figured out what it did, it didn't take us long to start the pranks. Some things never change I guess.
I imagine that it might not be a good idea to auction off a used needle if I’m being honest. It probably had its fair share of blood transmission during its lifespan. I agree with Ian though, it is a cool idea in theory but at the end of the day boys will be boys and Swift should have seen this was going to be inevitable
This Training Rifle sure got to The POINT and was a SHARP idea, so why POKE fun of It ? I'll stop now because trying to find more puns regarding This Training Rifle has me on PINS and NEEDLES . LoL !!!
Does that really count as a dry fire if it does exactly what it's meant to do? Too bad they didn't think of pitching the idea to toy companies, I think kids back in the day would have enjoyed shooting it
I think that as long as it's doing what it's designed to do, it isn't strictly a dry fire? I know that the reason dry firing is generally considered a bad thing to do is because the firing mechanism is designed to strike a primer. If there is no primer there, the energy of the firing mechanism has nothing to transfer to and potentially causes stress to the firing mechanism. The best example I know of when it comes to dry firing no-nos is a bow or crossbow; without an arrow to dampen the energy that the limbs are releasing, that energy is dispersed back into the bow itself instead of into accelerating and flexing an arrow and can cause damage to the bow.
I think that is a good point, often the learning objectives of a teaching tool are not transmitted to the teaching staff, (or vice versa). This sounds like a classic case of not using the tool as intended then wondering why it does not work.
+A. Lampman, you are truthfully correct, not saying that some very immoral things did not happen, and was done, but that some (to many) of the losses were not only from one sides perspective lumped in together with the guilted.
Tetanus would be a much higher risk than Hepatitis A or B - 'B' is actually pretty fragile, Hep A and Tetanus can survive quite well in the soil, water or on rough surfaces.
I went to look in the video description how much this went for and it says "lot removed from auction" - could Ian have snapped it up before the auction??
Indeed - so much information missing from this video. I think we need a range test on Full30 to establish important things like the accuracy, recoil, etc...
The extra blade that was missing is interesting. Doesn't it mean that the training rifle was actually designed to provide more information to an Instructor than would be evident with a real weapon?
I was allowed to use on in a regimental museum in Sheffield when I was a lad; just feeling the weight of a service rifle, and using a steady hold was hard. Maybe there are better ways today to train without firing live rounds but for training those who have never held a rifle... A lovely bit of nostalgia for me Ian - thank you.
I owned one of these when I was 14 years old, I can’t remember where it came from but I had lots of fun playing soldiers with it. When I broke the stock on my BSA .177 air rifle my dad took the stock from the Swift and reshaped it to fit the BSA. This was in 1957, happy memories.
It really seems like a precursor to modern laser training systems. Small space, low noise, and focused on fundamentals. It won't replace live fire training but it would give you something to build off of.
This is interesting to me especially, because my friend across the street from me had a toy I'd never seen before or since. His fathers family was from the Philippines, and his mother was Japanese (one of those weird post-war relationships). We lived as neighbors from about 1969 to 1971 or so. I think I had just started Kindergarten. At any rate - he had this toy "shooting gallery" that was basically the same principal in that it used a spring-loaded needle to poke holes in paper targets. The difference was that the needle mechanism was mounted in the target frame behind the slide-in targets, and was attached to a long "operating rod" that went into the base of the "gun", which was a pistol. The "grip" of the pistol was mounted on a ball joint, in a frame that attached the pistol and target frame together. Through this joint the "operating rod" moved after making a 90 degree bend at the grip base and then again to come up behind the target frame. I believe the spring power was all contained in the "pistol". But it was a lot of fun - the distance of the toy overall was about two feet long, and IIRC the needle was pretty accurately lined up with the molded sights on the gun. I believe the toy was from Japan, and it was almost completely made of brightly colored plastic. Does this ring a bell with anyone? I've tried doing internet searches for it from time to time, but apparently my Google-Fu was not strong enough. But it would be fun to get some confirmation of that childhood memory somewhere. :-)
not enough of a puncture for suicide . the brain is a resilient thing.. you can lose large portions of your brain without [overtly] ill-effect. ... even straight to the eyeball and you would heal. best this thing can do is transmit a virus... or radioactive poison .. cough *Putin* cough *umbrella* cough *polonium* cough..
When I showed him the video, my dad told me he and his men used the same system while training with their Scorpion. Not the SMG! Their FV-101 Scorpion TANK!
I used something similar to this once. It was at a fairground, and it was an enclosed cabinet with the 'rifle' permanently mounted on a gimbal type device. The shooter looked through some eye holes (like binoculars I suppose) into a pretend shooting gallery with targets. You could aim the 'rifle' by rotating it around on its pivot. Pulling the trigger caused an arm to swing forward and poke a hole in the paper target, in much the same way as an old fashioned typewriter worked. When you had finished, your target would come out of a slot as a souvenir. I remember being very surprised at how small the target was in real life - it had been magnified a great deal by the optics in the eye holes.
It's a shame that it was so badly recieved. It would be interesting to see just how effective something like this would be for a 'day one' training for training large numbers of soldiers very quickly. Legally speaking, in the UK this would fall under RIF and be banned for general use. Yay, uk law....
@Laird, A "RIF" or Realistic Imitation Firearm is the legal name for an object that LOOKS like a firearm but is not classified legally as 'lethal'. RIFs are banned to the general public, but are permitted to individuals with a valid exemption, such as airsofters, re-enactors, movie/theatre productions and museums. An 'Air rifle' is legally classified as 'lethal' and can be bought over the counter by anyone over the age of 18. Certain things preclude something from being a RIF, such as being really tiny (like an action man gun), being brightly coloured (making it an IF rather than a RIF) or being a replica of a design from before 1870 (for some reason) All this in a country where the only gun crime is by gangs shooting at other gangs with smuggled pistols.
EDSKaR that last sentence is exactly why gun bans work in the U.K. And Europe. While I do like guns, the technique and history I'm very glad the only shootings we have are dumb tugs shooting each other once in a while (not counting in terror attacks like Paris)
Except that gun crime went UP when pistols were outlawed, because law abiding gun owners don't commit crimes, and the criminal element increased smuggling at about that time. Gun crime went DOWN when interpol and the Met ran a campaign to reduce smuggled guns. Gun crime isn't really a thing here because of our culture, not because there are fewer guns about. I hate this debate, I want to move to mars.
This kind of feels like an elegant engineer's solution that failed to solve the problem it was aimed at. Still a really interesting chapter in the history of rifle training.
Ian, how long have you been growing your hair for? Also, how long does it take you to dry all of it? Been asking this forever and yet to get an answer. Love your work man, keep it up!
Legend has it, Ian's hair is as old as time itself. Why you ask? No matter how long of a period of time you let your hair grow, it will never be as fabulous as his.
Given the length of his hair I would say about a year and a half of growth from what society considers normal male hair to that. But if you look back at his old videos, he has always had long hair. My hair is a similar length, I shaved my head to the skin about two years ago. For drying, it really doesn't take long, air dry in less than 10m, but I use a towel. Of course different peoples hair grows at different rates, and it does depend on what you use to keep it clean (Ians hair is very shiny).
Well my hair has been growing for about 3 years and it's a bit longer (and waaay thicker) than Ians, but like you pointed out, it seems like he magically keeps it near the same length. Also, I wish my hair had any chance of air drying. :-/
When going through recon school in Ft Knox in the early 70's we had a familiarization training block with the 1911. We didn't actually fire them, but we went through how to disassemble / assemble them and then were taken outside where sheets of paper were taped to the side of the brick building. We then proceeded, with a pencil pushed down the barrel, to shoot at the paper from a couple of inches away, with the pencil making marks on the paper. We never live fired them. This, in spite of the fact that the entry level position on a recon track was observer, with the supposed weapons for the observer being a M60 and a M1911. In fact, we rarely had the manpower for observer's, and the ones we had were given the M60 and a M16, usually with a M203 since the TC would always grab the 1911 for himself.
We had something that could be considered a more modern version of this in basic. It was a fake m16 hooked to a video game system with a mock qualification range. It sucked and provided literally no useful training other than being a video game to kill the boredom of nights in basic. Literally the Army's horrible version of duck hunt. There was also a shooting gallery type system that was a little cooler because it had full auto on the selector and had something a little like recoil.
Reminds me a bit of the indoor range we had when I did my basic training. They were gas powered sa80 which worked similar to a laser tag system. They also had sensors in them so they could tell if you were pulling the rifle into your shoulder correctly or if you were snatching at the trigger.
Having taught more than a few people how to shoot a rifle, I disagree that it wouldn't be useful. For those wholly unaccustomed holding a rifle, this gives you a safe method to learn proper technique, including use of the bolt and trigger control, check weld, etc. I think it was poorly received, because the officers were familiar with a firearm, and had a hard time understanding that basic concepts can be hard for people to grasp when unfamiliar with a tool. The officers were unable to view the tool from the perspective of a true novice.
Swedish Army had a similar training device. It was designed to be installed on a regular m/96 rifle. The "cartridge" part contained the springs and the rear "lock" had the sear. A long push rod transmitted the stroke to a needle device through the barrel.
They may have gotten the idea for this from a naval gun trainer from the days before stabilization and gun directors when the guns were fired from local control. The Royal Navy had a device with silhouettes of ships printed on a target which was mounted on a mechanism that moved the target to simulate pitch and roll. The trainee was a few yards away with a gun sight and trigger, cranking the gun up and down and training it to match the pitch and roll. When he pulled the trigger, a device at the target would punch a hole to mark how well the trainee trainer was trained.
In basic training, just after getting our rifles for the first time and attending all the necessary lessons, we had to go through a somewhat similar procedure to simulate zeroing, though without a special training rifle such as this one. We were supervised by our instructors so that they could make sure that everyone knew what to do when they arrived at the firing range for the first time.
I thought you might be interested to know that quite a few very old English Pubs have 25/30 yard Rifle ranges in them!! How Bloody fantastic is that, Ale 'and' Shooting! Love your channel.
I've used one of these. I believe they mostly filtered down to Cadet Battalions and TAVR units.It was ideal for 'part-time' soldiers who had no regular range access. I found it very effective personally, greatly assisting the transition to the full size No.4. You have to think 'small people' here, from 12 years old and up. To us, full size rifles weighing 9+ lbs, were huge, and training with the Swift was very useful as we only got to shoot live rounds perhaps twice a year if we were lucky. Interesting find Ian. Thanks for posting..
Only last Tuesday I attended a WW1 event aimed at children for the Hertfordshire Regiment in the UK. They had two Swift B's set up for the children to try out. Complete with frames. The targets that where there were infantryman target silhouettes at different ranges. One awkwardness is that when you pull the rifle into your shoulder it drags the whole frame arrangement backwards as well! (The spring safety was disabled so that the kids didn't have to fight the spring!)
Tank gunnery training until the 80s used to use a needle training system based on Honeywell electro-magnetic hydraulic valves as needle poking system. At the muzzle of the gun a down pointing rod with this needle valve was mounted, pointing into the direction of the target.
There’s an excellent example of one of these in the Trenchard Museum at the Royal Air Force’s recruit training camp at RAF Halton, complete with targets. Actually quite fun to try! I was thinking to myself “isn’t there supposed to be a second needle?” right up until your title card explaining just that!
Pilot Officer Prune, was the RAF's equivalent of the US Armies Private SNAFU. I believe there was an attempt to sell a simplified version of this as a kids toy. Rare beast.
I remember my dad taking me to his office one day and there was something similar in concept to this there. It was an M16 that was a light gun that worked with a television. On the screen was a sort of outdoors scene and black targets (like the ones you'd see at the range) would randomly pop up, and you 'shoot' them.
The little cartoon with Pilot Officer Prune holding a Swift was published in an official RAF "newsletter" / mini-magazine called "Tee Em" (Training Memoranda). It was part of an "instructional" article on the Swift. TMs are a bit smaller than "letter", (quarto) size and have a grey cover.. I saw a pile of Tee Ems a while ago in a collectors "overflow" stash. I might have to go back and "make inquiries".
I have seen a handgun version of this at the Citadel in Halifax Nova Scotia.It slid into the barrel and used the firing pin to push the pin, the target was set up with a small target where the sight is, and a larger target where the barrel and pin are.
Ah damn it I wanted to purchase that when I saw it and immediately noted the lit removed from auction underneath!!! Blast that would have been a cool piece of history to own.
I used to do practice with empty gun when I was in military. To me, that looks like really good idea. I mean that's better than empty gun. And practice is always not enough.
Good to see a cartoon of PO Prune by Bill Hooper, an original cartoon of his would be worth more than a training rifle! Bill was an airman at RAF Hornchurch who was 'spotted' and became a cartoonist for the RAF, working on various 'safety' publications, notably 'Tee-Emm'.
We did somewhat similar practice in the Finnish army with the RK-62. It was before we went shooting for the first time - just to practice how to align the sights etc. Can't remember exactly how we did it, but I suppose it was pretty much the same what this Swift rifle was made for.
There used to be an arcade game slot machine that worked in much the same way as the Swift. I used one at Wicksteed Amusement Park around 1978, though it was already decades old at the time. (The Park dates from Victorian times and the slot machine collection covers a long timespan!) There was a cabinet with a "rifle" sticking out of it. There were target cards with several roundel targets printed on them. There was no sprung buttplate and no cocking, (the "rifle" resembled a Winchester 1994) but a needle punched holes in the target when you pulled the trigger and you got quite a lot of shots for whatever the coin was. (The machine must have been converted to decimal coinage). When your turn was finished, the machine dispensed the used target card for your records! I wonder if the maker of the Swift had anything to do with the maker of the slot machine?
Better known as a range simulator and there were other devices to aid training in a similar mode ! Necessity is the mother of invention, ammo was needed to defend Britain's shores and every round was required for the regular army! It was more for the Home Guard (Army Auxiliary Reserve) than active army units, and it was used in the absence of weapons and ammo (that were in very short supply in thr early days of the home guard LDV).
Very much enjoy these rare and unusual "not actually a gun" item videos. Does the needle articulate by hand without "firing", or is it locked rigid by the mechanism? A flashlight app on your cell phone would serve you well for getting light into places like the needle housing in this video.
I'm pretty sure there was one of those kept in the armoury at the public school I went to, in north west London back in the late'60s... it was mounted on the wall behind the armourer's bench and nobody ever used it or even referred to it to explain what it was or what it was for !!
During my tim ein the german military we had a "simple" but clever system to check for correct and consistent sight use. There were G3s fixed on Tripods and a paper target 10m from the muzzle. The Recruit had to aim the rifle three times with an instructor pointing at the paper target with a pen, by telling the instructor to move the pen until the recuit thinks the tip points to were the rifle is aiming, the instructor then makes a mark at that location. After the three shots, the position of the marks relative to the point to which the rifle was set from the instructor and to each other said a lot about the marksman skills and possible errors of the recruit.
"On paper this is an effective tool"... I see what you did there. :P
Sum Arbor your 100th like xD
Sum Arbor lmfao
Oh, boy! Sixty years on, and, a lot of faded memories, and, I'm absolutely amazed to be re-acquainted with this practice rifle. I was a 15 year old Air Cadet in Preston Lancashire in the UK. We had one in the armoury, along with Lee-Enfields' and a Browning 303 from a WW2 Spitfire, or, Hurricane. We were trained on this Swift rifle before being allowed to go out on the range to use the Lee-Enfield. We kids enjoyed the Swift to bits! Preferring to use that than go out on the range. We used bulls-eye targets to 220 yard scale - it proved to be very accurate and familiarised us with the bolt action before using the real thing. The comment about the officers thinking it was a prank were far off the mark, idiotic in their assumptions. But, then, the mentality of British officers from that period, I'm not surprised! Most of them came from so called upper class families with not an original thought between the ears - let alone know how to use a battle rifle. The Webley revolver was all they cared about. Take it from me, given the chance to own one of these, I'd jump at it - more so, if it came with the frame contraption to hold the gun and target. All these years and I couldn't remember the name of this gun, and now, it's made my day - Thank you Forgotten Weapons - I owe you one! Kindest regards, Bill.
bobsagget823 you just copied this from another person
bobsagget823 why did you even comment it under here
It's just a few modifications away from being a slow but macho sewing machine.
That would be the Bren version of this.
+OgreSwordsman[FIN] oh my god that would be hilarious.
agreed
That, or getting a very manly tattoo.
Over the course of a solid week.
PumpJack McGee Ouch.
Oh, boy! Sixty years on, and, a lot of faded memories, and, I'm absolutely amazed to be re-acquainted with this practice rifle. I was a 15 year old Air Cadet in Preston Lancashire in the UK. We had one in the armoury, along with Lee-Enfields' and a Browning 303 from a WW2 Spitfire, or, Hurricane. We were trained on this Swift rifle before being allowed to go out on the range to use the Lee-Enfield. We kids enjoyed the Swift to bits! Preferring to use that than go out on the range. We used bulls-eye targets to 220 yard scale - it proved to be very accurate and familiarised us with the bolt action before using the real thing. The comment about the officers thinking it was a prank were far off the mark, idiotic in their assumptions. But, then, the mentality of British officers from that period, I'm not surprised! Most of them came from so called upper class families with not an original thought between the ears - let alone know how to use a battle rifle. The Webley revolver was all they cared about. Take it from me, given the chance to own one of these, I'd jump at it - more so, if it came with the frame contraption to hold the gun and target. All these years and I couldn't remember the name of this gun, and now, it's made my day - Thank you Forgotten Weapons - I owe you one! Kindest regards, Bill.
William Rance subscribe then
@@SteveReynold no u
That was really sweet and heartfelt :)
Did you ever shoot each other in the bum while acting silly?
Cool story Thanks for sharing!
The horror of seeing this ... this ... the weapon responsible for the great balloon massacre of 1946.
We miss you pops.
This is the very same gun that brought down the Hindenburg.
You named a balloon “Pops”.....?
It was really more of a prediction than a name.
FATshadow o
Pennywise wept.
Finally! A rifle I can afford to shoot on a regular basis!
You and me both.
There's this thing called a .177...
@@joedingo7022 Maybe the guy is in Canada?
@Anton Lanthier Ah yes those traditional copper, steel, or aluminum musket balls.
@@joedingo7022 .177, like a pellet gun or a .17 hmr?
This is an action movie rifle: No recoil and there's never a need for reloading
We found one of these in an armory while I was in basic in 2005, once we figured out what it did, it didn't take us long to start the pranks. Some things never change I guess.
(lot removed from auction) - the commissioner became aware of all the bum-pricking potential with this thing.
I imagine that it might not be a good idea to auction off a used needle if I’m being honest. It probably had its fair share of blood transmission during its lifespan. I agree with Ian though, it is a cool idea in theory but at the end of the day boys will be boys and Swift should have seen this was going to be inevitable
@@andyn46 come on - how old is that blood?
It's like the first ever VR shooting 'game'!
+largol33t1 no I think grandpa just used the 12 gauge.
They had a slightly less ridiculous (but similar) thing called the Weaponeer at Fort Benning. We all thought it was pretty hilarious in 2003.
Intrestingly not, there is a light gun shooter from 1936 called ray-o-lite that is claiming this title
The British officers who dismissed this rifle were just butt hurt...
No, but their trainees were
This Training Rifle sure got to The POINT and was a SHARP idea, so why POKE fun of It ? I'll stop now because trying to find more puns regarding This Training Rifle has me on PINS and NEEDLES . LoL !!!
This is my sewing machine! There are many like it, but this one is mine!
best one
Does that really count as a dry fire if it does exactly what it's meant to do?
Too bad they didn't think of pitching the idea to toy companies, I think kids back in the day would have enjoyed shooting it
I think that as long as it's doing what it's designed to do, it isn't strictly a dry fire? I know that the reason dry firing is generally considered a bad thing to do is because the firing mechanism is designed to strike a primer. If there is no primer there, the energy of the firing mechanism has nothing to transfer to and potentially causes stress to the firing mechanism.
The best example I know of when it comes to dry firing no-nos is a bow or crossbow; without an arrow to dampen the energy that the limbs are releasing, that energy is dispersed back into the bow itself instead of into accelerating and flexing an arrow and can cause damage to the bow.
I think that is a good point, often the learning objectives of a teaching tool are not transmitted to the teaching staff, (or vice versa). This sounds like a classic case of not using the tool as intended then wondering why it does not work.
I belive they did,. I've seen one in a box that was more of a childs toy display on the front.
Charles Puffer
MrcabooseVG Should have brought it to 'Murica!
Jack Churchill once held a entire German division
With a swift training rifle model B.
I heard they needed another coffin for his balls.
Broadsword, not a sabre.
+A. Lampman, you are truthfully correct, not saying that some very immoral things did not happen, and was done, but that some (to many) of the losses were not only from one sides perspective lumped in together with the guilted.
*scots broadsword
that dude was a fucking badass, he owns the most resent confirmed kill with a bow btw
4:47 Joking around + Swift training rifle model B = Hepititis B
Tetanus would be a much higher risk than Hepatitis A or B - 'B' is actually pretty fragile, Hep A and Tetanus can survive quite well in the soil, water or on rough surfaces.
Clearly they did not realize the biological warfare potential of this device.
Yeah I know right
For the Hepatitis A you'd need a Model A.
Add wings to it, KGB umbrella to inject Ricin. imho
At 9:59 you can actually see Ian contemplating bidding on the training rifle. heh.
Mike Joseph
I bet Ian wrestles with that temptation far more than do most people. I guess that would be a downside to an otherwise awesome job.
I went to look in the video description how much this went for and it says "lot removed from auction" - could Ian have snapped it up before the auction??
@@demonstructie you do realize this was uploaded in 2017?
@XxRidonkulous5xX
Guess that means it was sold a year ago, does it say anything else if it was sold?
Abdega right in the description it says date sold and sell price.
Lot removed from auction means the seller opted not to sell.
I could only imagine how many fist fights that thing caused?
fitter it out bad punctuation
@@jasoncastleberry5905 Yours ain't any better. :P
@@FroggyMosh r/woooooooosh
@@jasoncastleberry5905 I'm impressed that you waited an entire year for that wooooosh
@@nf4866 good one but not actually close to the right date
So can you still get the ammunition?
Indeed - so much information missing from this video. I think we need a range test on Full30 to establish important things like the accuracy, recoil, etc...
Does it accept Glock magazines?
Put a pistol grip on it and it would be banned in California.
Pekka Rastas that's the joke
Any criminal can fire this 20 times without reloading! Save the children!
The extra blade that was missing is interesting. Doesn't it mean that the training rifle was actually designed to provide more information to an Instructor than would be evident with a real weapon?
I was allowed to use on in a regimental museum in Sheffield when I was a lad; just feeling the weight of a service rifle, and using a steady hold was hard. Maybe there are better ways today to train without firing live rounds but for training those who have never held a rifle... A lovely bit of nostalgia for me Ian - thank you.
That's slightly *more* threatening than a regular rifle.
TheFlacker99 (Flak) mobile bayonet
They do not like it up them! Don't like it up 'em, sir, they do not like it!
Why?
@@svtirefire Pokey pokey make go "oww"
Sounds like it would be a laugh to play with (and a nice add to any lee Enfield collection!)
Jerry Long it's all fun and games until someone gets hep b
If everyone has Hep B, nobody has Hep B.
The needle's bad enough, but that spade thing below it to check alignment...Jesus, that's thing looks like you'd need a few stitches afterwards!
elektro3000 ...ouch D:
You could tattoo with this if you're an absolute madman.
Neverlietoapie you’d need a full auto version maybe a sten practice gun and some ink ,alpha male tattoo shop LLC ,lol
I owned one of these when I was 14 years old, I can’t remember where it came from but I had lots of fun playing soldiers with it.
When I broke the stock on my BSA .177 air rifle my dad took the stock from the Swift and reshaped it to fit the BSA. This was in 1957, happy memories.
As far as pranking goes, that would hurt!
It really seems like a precursor to modern laser training systems. Small space, low noise, and focused on fundamentals. It won't replace live fire training but it would give you something to build off of.
"On paper it seems like a good idea" lol the puns
(lot removed from auction)
Swiggity swooty Ian gonna poke yo booty
This is interesting to me especially, because my friend across the street from me had a toy I'd never seen before or since. His fathers family was from the Philippines, and his mother was Japanese (one of those weird post-war relationships). We lived as neighbors from about 1969 to 1971 or so. I think I had just started Kindergarten.
At any rate - he had this toy "shooting gallery" that was basically the same principal in that it used a spring-loaded needle to poke holes in paper targets. The difference was that the needle mechanism was mounted in the target frame behind the slide-in targets, and was attached to a long "operating rod" that went into the base of the "gun", which was a pistol. The "grip" of the pistol was mounted on a ball joint, in a frame that attached the pistol and target frame together. Through this joint the "operating rod" moved after making a 90 degree bend at the grip base and then again to come up behind the target frame. I believe the spring power was all contained in the "pistol". But it was a lot of fun - the distance of the toy overall was about two feet long, and IIRC the needle was pretty accurately lined up with the molded sights on the gun.
I believe the toy was from Japan, and it was almost completely made of brightly colored plastic. Does this ring a bell with anyone? I've tried doing internet searches for it from time to time, but apparently my Google-Fu was not strong enough. But it would be fun to get some confirmation of that childhood memory somewhere. :-)
How much force does that needle have? If you put it to someone's forehead would it puncture skull?
No, but it would make the person very angry.
Forgotten Weapons lol
Sillygoose210 _ Anton Chigurh?
suicide by prank
not enough of a puncture for suicide . the brain is a resilient thing.. you can lose large portions of your brain without [overtly] ill-effect. ... even straight to the eyeball and you would heal.
best this thing can do is transmit a virus... or radioactive poison .. cough *Putin* cough *umbrella* cough *polonium* cough..
When I showed him the video, my dad told me he and his men used the same system while training with their Scorpion. Not the SMG! Their FV-101 Scorpion TANK!
I used something similar to this once.
It was at a fairground, and it was an enclosed cabinet with the 'rifle' permanently mounted on a gimbal type device.
The shooter looked through some eye holes (like binoculars I suppose) into a pretend shooting gallery with targets.
You could aim the 'rifle' by rotating it around on its pivot.
Pulling the trigger caused an arm to swing forward and poke a hole in the paper target, in much the same way as an old fashioned typewriter worked.
When you had finished, your target would come out of a slot as a souvenir.
I remember being very surprised at how small the target was in real life - it had been magnified a great deal by the optics in the eye holes.
"Lot removed from Auction" Iiiiiaaaaannn....you kept it, didn't you
Toothpick technology has come a long way!
It's a shame that it was so badly recieved. It would be interesting to see just how effective something like this would be for a 'day one' training for training large numbers of soldiers very quickly.
Legally speaking, in the UK this would fall under RIF and be banned for general use. Yay, uk law....
But if the needle where to fly out it would be an air gun and legal despite being much more dangerous.
YEP, THAT'S A THING.
*Sigh*
@Laird, A "RIF" or Realistic Imitation Firearm is the legal name for an object that LOOKS like a firearm but is not classified legally as 'lethal'. RIFs are banned to the general public, but are permitted to individuals with a valid exemption, such as airsofters, re-enactors, movie/theatre productions and museums.
An 'Air rifle' is legally classified as 'lethal' and can be bought over the counter by anyone over the age of 18.
Certain things preclude something from being a RIF, such as being really tiny (like an action man gun), being brightly coloured (making it an IF rather than a RIF) or being a replica of a design from before 1870 (for some reason)
All this in a country where the only gun crime is by gangs shooting at other gangs with smuggled pistols.
EDSKaR that last sentence is exactly why gun bans work in the U.K. And Europe. While I do like guns, the technique and history I'm very glad the only shootings we have are dumb tugs shooting each other once in a while (not counting in terror attacks like Paris)
Except that gun crime went UP when pistols were outlawed, because law abiding gun owners don't commit crimes, and the criminal element increased smuggling at about that time.
Gun crime went DOWN when interpol and the Met ran a campaign to reduce smuggled guns.
Gun crime isn't really a thing here because of our culture, not because there are fewer guns about.
I hate this debate, I want to move to mars.
Dry firing at targets with snap caps, is still the best for fundamental muscle memory.
This kind of feels like an elegant engineer's solution that failed to solve the problem it was aimed at. Still a really interesting chapter in the history of rifle training.
Ian, how long have you been growing your hair for? Also, how long does it take you to dry all of it? Been asking this forever and yet to get an answer. Love your work man, keep it up!
The world needs answers :P
Legend has it, Ian's hair is as old as time itself. Why you ask? No matter how long of a period of time you let your hair grow, it will never be as fabulous as his.
Given the length of his hair I would say about a year and a half of growth from what society considers normal male hair to that. But if you look back at his old videos, he has always had long hair.
My hair is a similar length, I shaved my head to the skin about two years ago.
For drying, it really doesn't take long, air dry in less than 10m, but I use a towel.
Of course different peoples hair grows at different rates, and it does depend on what you use to keep it clean (Ians hair is very shiny).
Well my hair has been growing for about 3 years and it's a bit longer (and waaay thicker) than Ians, but like you pointed out, it seems like he magically keeps it near the same length. Also, I wish my hair had any chance of air drying. :-/
As long as he can remember.
If he cuts it he loses his strength
When going through recon school in Ft Knox in the early 70's we had a familiarization training block with the 1911. We didn't actually fire them, but we went through how to disassemble / assemble them and then were taken outside where sheets of paper were taped to the side of the brick building. We then proceeded, with a pencil pushed down the barrel, to shoot at the paper from a couple of inches away, with the pencil making marks on the paper. We never live fired them.
This, in spite of the fact that the entry level position on a recon track was observer, with the supposed weapons for the observer being a M60 and a M1911. In fact, we rarely had the manpower for observer's, and the ones we had were given the M60 and a M16, usually with a M203 since the TC would always grab the 1911 for himself.
I love your videos, Ian. I live in the UK where the gun laws are...draconian, but I find these videos very educational. A man can dream, cant he?
There was a variant of these built into cabinets, and found in British seaside amusement arcades in the 1970's.
There was one at our local seaside arcade , then later a version that dropped your target into a little slot for you to take home.
now can you change the mechanism such that the needle doesn't retract back in... and also, could you then replace the needle with a small flag
comes with interchangeable "bang" and white flags
carmatic 😂
Perfect for the French
We had something that could be considered a more modern version of this in basic. It was a fake m16 hooked to a video game system with a mock qualification range. It sucked and provided literally no useful training other than being a video game to kill the boredom of nights in basic. Literally the Army's horrible version of duck hunt. There was also a shooting gallery type system that was a little cooler because it had full auto on the selector and had something a little like recoil.
This actually looks like it'd be fairly easy to make. I'm kind of tempted to try.
Reminds me a bit of the indoor range we had when I did my basic training. They were gas powered sa80 which worked similar to a laser tag system. They also had sensors in them so they could tell if you were pulling the rifle into your shoulder correctly or if you were snatching at the trigger.
Swift Rifle Company: "Noooooo you can't just use it for jokes, it's a really good training weapon we swear!"
Everyone else: "Hah hah, needle go poke."
Having taught more than a few people how to shoot a rifle, I disagree that it wouldn't be useful.
For those wholly unaccustomed holding a rifle, this gives you a safe method to learn proper technique, including use of the bolt and trigger control, check weld, etc.
I think it was poorly received, because the officers were familiar with a firearm, and had a hard time understanding that basic concepts can be hard for people to grasp when unfamiliar with a tool. The officers were unable to view the tool from the perspective of a true novice.
I sometimes call any weapon a "Perforator for long distances" now there seems to be a cqc version too. Tactical office warfare.
Swedish Army had a similar training device. It was designed to be installed on a regular m/96 rifle. The "cartridge" part contained the springs and the rear "lock" had the sear. A long push rod transmitted the stroke to a needle device through the barrel.
The first weapon I had any training with was a Bren gun 26 years ago in the army cadets.
They may have gotten the idea for this from a naval gun trainer from the days before stabilization and gun directors when the guns were fired from local control. The Royal Navy had a device with silhouettes of ships printed on a target which was mounted on a mechanism that moved the target to simulate pitch and roll. The trainee was a few yards away with a gun sight and trigger, cranking the gun up and down and training it to match the pitch and roll. When he pulled the trigger, a device at the target would punch a hole to mark how well the trainee trainer was trained.
In basic training, just after getting our rifles for the first time and attending all the necessary lessons, we had to go through a somewhat similar procedure to simulate zeroing, though without a special training rifle such as this one. We were supervised by our instructors so that they could make sure that everyone knew what to do when they arrived at the firing range for the first time.
I thought you might be interested to know that quite a few very old English Pubs have 25/30 yard Rifle ranges in them!! How Bloody fantastic is that, Ale 'and' Shooting! Love your channel.
I think this may be the first weapon I've seen on your channel that is legal to buy in the UK for a normal person.
Cool little thing
I've used one of these. I believe they mostly filtered down to Cadet Battalions and TAVR units.It was ideal for 'part-time' soldiers who had no regular range access. I found it very effective personally, greatly assisting the transition to the full size No.4. You have to think 'small people' here, from 12 years old and up. To us, full size rifles weighing 9+ lbs, were huge, and training with the Swift was very useful as we only got to shoot live rounds perhaps twice a year if we were lucky. Interesting find Ian. Thanks for posting..
Really you could say it’s one of the best bayonet trainers of all time
"on paper it seems to be..." lol
"A needle sticks out when the trigger is pulled"
You can still hear the echoes of the officers yelling.
Ian love your videos, here and on inrange, you are a extremely knowledgeable dude
Only last Tuesday I attended a WW1 event aimed at children for the Hertfordshire Regiment in the UK. They had two Swift B's set up for the children to try out. Complete with frames. The targets that where there were infantryman target silhouettes at different ranges. One awkwardness is that when you pull the rifle into your shoulder it drags the whole frame arrangement backwards as well! (The spring safety was disabled so that the kids didn't have to fight the spring!)
Imaging getting a tattoo by this needle , yieks :( :D
Tank gunnery training until the 80s used to use a needle training system based on Honeywell electro-magnetic hydraulic valves as needle poking system. At the muzzle of the gun a down pointing rod with this needle valve was mounted, pointing into the direction of the target.
Certainly useful in training people to work the action properly during dry fire training.
Seems like an idea inspired from a 1930’s penny amusement arcade game.
There’s an excellent example of one of these in the Trenchard Museum at the Royal Air Force’s recruit training camp at RAF Halton, complete with targets. Actually quite fun to try! I was thinking to myself “isn’t there supposed to be a second needle?” right up until your title card explaining just that!
I think you missed the point.
do you think people give items to the auction house just so you'll do a video on them sometimes with the items that get removed after?
No, I don't. Typically if an item is removed, it is removed before the consignor has any idea I did a video on it.
Pilot Officer Prune, was the RAF's equivalent of the US Armies Private SNAFU. I believe there was an attempt to sell a simplified version of this as a kids toy. Rare beast.
reminds me of the old gun range entertainment machines you used to find on piers.
I remember my dad taking me to his office one day and there was something similar in concept to this there. It was an M16 that was a light gun that worked with a television. On the screen was a sort of outdoors scene and black targets (like the ones you'd see at the range) would randomly pop up, and you 'shoot' them.
when i was issued my first m16 in basic training, I looked at the bore and thought it was a training rifle. Then I found out it was the real thing.
The little cartoon with Pilot Officer Prune holding a Swift was published in an official RAF "newsletter" / mini-magazine called "Tee Em" (Training Memoranda). It was part of an "instructional" article on the Swift. TMs are a bit smaller than "letter", (quarto) size and have a grey cover..
I saw a pile of Tee Ems a while ago in a collectors "overflow" stash. I might have to go back and "make inquiries".
Saw one of these at a show last weekend. And a Murata. And a Liberator. Drool.
There's a gun store near me that actually has one of these.
Did you get it
is ammo still available for this gun?
God of Thunder You can custom order it. A bit pricey, but I'll hook you up.
Just avoid the corrosive stuff like the plague!
John Wick could still topple a Government with this.
The emphasis on munition preservation cannot be understated during the time these were issued. British; always outsmarting themselves.
I have seen a handgun version of this at the Citadel in Halifax Nova Scotia.It slid into the barrel and used the firing pin to push the pin, the target was set up with a small target where the sight is, and a larger target where the barrel and pin are.
* extend barrel and puts magazine at front so actual bullets can be hit by pin and Fire
I got to use one of these at an air show here in the UK the other week, it's a fun bit of kit. I pointed the owners towards this video.
Ah damn it I wanted to purchase that when I saw it and immediately noted the lit removed from auction underneath!!! Blast that would have been a cool piece of history to own.
One of your best videos Ian!!! So cool.
I was literally thinking about this earlier, and now, I just saw this on recommend.
I used to do practice with empty gun when I was in military. To me, that looks like really good idea. I mean that's better than empty gun. And practice is always not enough.
I thought this was a very interesting video. Something I have never seen before. Thanks.
Good to see a cartoon of PO Prune by Bill Hooper, an original cartoon of his would be worth more than a training rifle! Bill was an airman at RAF Hornchurch who was 'spotted' and became a cartoonist for the RAF, working on various 'safety' publications, notably 'Tee-Emm'.
We did somewhat similar practice in the Finnish army with the RK-62. It was before we went shooting for the first time - just to practice how to align the sights etc. Can't remember exactly how we did it, but I suppose it was pretty much the same what this Swift rifle was made for.
There used to be an arcade game slot machine that worked in much the same way as the Swift. I used one at Wicksteed Amusement Park around 1978, though it was already decades old at the time. (The Park dates from Victorian times and the slot machine collection covers a long timespan!) There was a cabinet with a "rifle" sticking out of it. There were target cards with several roundel targets printed on them. There was no sprung buttplate and no cocking, (the "rifle" resembled a Winchester 1994) but a needle punched holes in the target when you pulled the trigger and you got quite a lot of shots for whatever the coin was. (The machine must have been converted to decimal coinage). When your turn was finished, the machine dispensed the used target card for your records! I wonder if the maker of the Swift had anything to do with the maker of the slot machine?
Better known as a range simulator and there were other devices to aid training in a similar mode ! Necessity is the mother of invention, ammo was needed to defend Britain's shores and every round was required for the regular army! It was more for the Home Guard (Army Auxiliary Reserve) than active army units, and it was used in the absence of weapons and ammo (that were in very short supply in thr early days of the home guard LDV).
Hey, a Pilot Officer Prune cartoon! P.O. Prune was sort of the RAF equivalent of Private Snafu so it makes sense he'd be making a nuisance of himself.
Very much enjoy these rare and unusual "not actually a gun" item videos. Does the needle articulate by hand without "firing", or is it locked rigid by the mechanism? A flashlight app on your cell phone would serve you well for getting light into places like the needle housing in this video.
Ahhhh, the foresight and wisdom of the officer corps.
Ian, if you ever have the opportunity, a comparison between a Japanese "school rifle" and a real Arisaka would be interesting to see.
I'm pretty sure there was one of those kept in the armoury at the public school I went to, in north west London back in the late'60s... it was mounted on the wall behind the armourer's bench and nobody ever used it or even referred to it to explain what it was or what it was for !!
They come up for auction here in the UK quite often. Think they normally sell for between £80 and £200
First rule of bootcamp; don't poke the drill sergeant in the buttocks with sharp objects.
During my tim ein the german military we had a "simple" but clever system to check for correct and consistent sight use.
There were G3s fixed on Tripods and a paper target 10m from the muzzle.
The Recruit had to aim the rifle three times with an instructor pointing at the paper target with a pen, by telling the instructor to move the pen until the recuit thinks the tip points to were the rifle is aiming, the instructor then makes a mark at that location.
After the three shots, the position of the marks relative to the point to which the rifle was set from the instructor and to each other said a lot about the marksman skills and possible errors of the recruit.
bansheemopar us army does it too, call it "shadow box drills"
The original laserlyte dry fire trainer lol
When i saw “pranks” I was instantly hooked.
That is one vicious little needle.