Paul Atreides: Ancestors & Descendants Explained
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Paul Atreides is the main character in both the book Dune and the new films based on it. He is one of the main characters in Dune and Dune Messiah, the first two books in the series. He also shows up in Children of Dune. The Fremen see him as their saviour, and the Bene Gesserit see him as the Kwizatz Haderach, the result of thousands of years of breeding to bring about a golden age for all people. At the end of Dune, he gets rid of the present Padishah Emperor and marries his daughter to become Emperor of the Known universe. But what do we really know about his roots? By this, I mean how far back his family tree goes, and what about his children and grandchildren? In this video, we'll look at the Atreides bloodline, which includes Muadib's ancestors and offspring. This is a family tree that goes back tens of thousands of years, from the time of the ancient Greeks to many years after the death of the god emperor.
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The Baron kissing his nephew and Paul children marrying each other .. That Harkonnen's DNA is so strong LOL
IIRC, Paul son, Leto II, married his twin sister so that no one could use her in any plots against him. They were married in name only. So yeah while its weird for him to marry his sister, at least they didn't commit the taboo.
The marriage of Paul's children was only a brief ploy that was only considered when they were prepubescent children and later used as a political tactic, it never actually was consumated. They were never romantic with each other or anything of the kind. Paul's daughter was actually promised to the nephew of the Former Emperor that Paul deposed during Children of Dune. Leto is only ever attracted to a slightly older Fremen girl and thousands of years later he falls in love with a liason from Ix.
Long story short, Paul's children never had any sort of inappropriate behavior and actually reject the idea of marrying each other almost as soon as it was proposed
Eww @@prolastmedia6171
Well, Vladimir Harkonnen (the fat Baron) was a gay pedophile who had a thing for pretty little boys, which is something they mostly avoided in both films. The Syfy series included it, though. And yes, he had a thing for Feyd as well, but never acted on it. Feyd was straight and did not return the interest. All that said... some families kiss on the mouth. It's weird, but there it is.
As for Paul's kids marrying each other... Leto II marrying Ghanima was in name only - it was a political move to keep his enemies from using her hand in marriage as a plot against him. Also, Leto II could no longer have children himself due to the process that transformed him into the God Emperor, so it was also a way of ensuring that the Atreides name lived on. The father of Ghanima's children was her royal concubine, Farad'n Corrino (the former Emperor's grandson.)
kissing each other doesnt always means romantic/segsual. medieval italian also did it.
I’m one of Paul’s ancestors 🗿
Well in future
Sehr am I
Same
“LISSAN AL-GAIB”
Here I am and here I remain
The old duke was Paulus Atreides who Paul was named after
Is it me or didn't Baron Harkonen call Duke Leto, "cousin" when he was about to bite on his tooth to release the poison? Specifically these movies, not for book people.
Gaius Helem is not Paul's grand mother, Frank Herbert never wrote that. His son did, but that goes against the Frank Herbert books
Yeah this was a retcon or Brian Herbert never read Children Of Dune because it is revealed that her mother's name was Tanida Nerus.
@@Trygvar13 Tanidia Nerus *is* Gaius Helen Mohiam. The idea that Mohiam and Nerus are the same people didn't originate from Brian Herbert or any of his prequels, it's a concept from the Dune Encyclopedia that references a book in the lore written by Gwilit Mignail called "The Nerus-Mohiam Controversy" which suggests Leto II intentionally obscured Mohiam's identity with an alias (possibly Mohiam's birth name since bene gesserit sometimes change names when joining the sisterhood to use the 3-name template of a latin name followed by an english name followed by an arabic or otherwise exotic name).
Tanidia Nerus *is* Gaius Helen Mohiam. Brian Herbert didn't come up with this, it's from the Dune Encyclopedia. A book written by Gwilit Mignail (in the lore from Dune Encyclopedia, not real life) called The Nerus-Mohiam Controversy discusses the assertion Leto II used an alias (possibly Mohiam's birth name) to protect Jessica from the revelation.
My posts keep getting hidden... long post short, Tanidia Nerus is Gaius Helen Mohiam. Brian Herbert didn't come up with that, it's from the Dune Encyclopedia.
@@Trygvar13 That was an alias.
You also forgot Miles Teg, Darwi Ordrade and Lucilla. They are also decsendants of Siona Atreides and Duncan Idaho.
I find it odd that although Alia and Paul know that the Baron is their paternal grandfather, nowhere in the books do they acknowledge Reverand Mother Mohiam as their grandmother. While Alia 'hears' her mother in her mind through her inner memories, rhe Reverand Mother Mohiam never makes herself known. Could their have been some special reason for that??
The reason is that mohiam is not jessica’s mother.
Because Frank never intended Mohiam to be Jessica's mother. But he was so disinterested in fleshing out Jessica's maternal lineage that it left a nearly blank slate for McNelly to suggest Tanidia Nerus and Mohiam are the same person in the Dune Encyclopedia (and subsequently for Brian to run with that interpretation). It is suggested that voices from other memory only make themselves known when they want to, you could rationalize that to be why Mohiam is not present in other memory for Jessica or her kids/grandkids.
You know the Lore well. Great video.
What about Feyd and his unborn child in Lady Fenring?
a way to preserve the harkonen line without them necessarily being harkonens anymore.
@@MrLaz0rz
Yeah well, depends on whether its a guy or gal. The 2 X chromosomes don't carey the dna as equally as the Y and X do, so it depends on how much your lineage you want to be in a steady line
@@thalmoragent9344 It's a Gal, Ladt Fenring confirms it.
Aww... You skipped the Cymeks!
I know, not everyone considers Brian's works as canon, but in my view: everything up to Heretics is. After it goes bonkers.
I see so Paul is Kratos's descendent
No wonder
Its going to get really weird from Dune 3 on out lol! Im surprised that so many of them never had any kids or never got married.
... and what about Miles Teg and Darwi Odrade?
So what of Miles Teg, Dimela and Darwi Odrade?
Yeah, those were descendants of Siona as well, and lived in the same era as Sheeana, in Heretics/Chapterhouse.
They were all Atreides though we don't know of any special qualities that Dimela had. Teg and Odrade definitely. They're both such interesting characters in the Dune universe. Descendants of the God Emperor and Paul.
Indeed. Odrade is actually the latest form of the Atreides name. There are a few mistakes in this video.
@@bernbsy god emperor had no descendants besides the worms...he killed all the worms besides himself off and when he died he spawned the generation that every worm after is related to....his twin sister had many kids with her consort though
@@zigzagzarf True he didn’t have direct descendent but by taking control of the Bene Gesserit’s breeding program, he was instrumental in developing Teg, Sheeana, Odrade, Lucilla, etc., and their latent abilities. The thousand children of Idaho and Siona.
you skipped the whole Butlerian Jihad?
Facts!
Those characters are from Brian Herbert, not Frank, so I’d leave that time out too
space cocaine
I remember reading somewhere that Leto and Vladmir are related by blood?
Leto and Emperor Shaddam are related by blood.
You skipped over a significant portion of his Ancestry, specifically the Agamemnon that started machine conquest of the Old Empire and Vorian Atreides.
This is in the Prequel Books: Dune , The Butlerian Jihad; Dune, The Machine Crusade and finally; Dune, The Battle of Corrin.
Who is this “Paul” guy?
It's wrong where is the famous Vorian Atreides ??
Where is Vorian ?
How can House Atreides be traced all the way back to Atreus and Agamemnon? Do we know Agamemnon's descendants today?
May i ask why leto II merged with a sandworm?
If I interpreted the books correctly, he merged with a sandworm to extend his lifespan almost indefinitely so he could influence humanity as emperor for thousands of years keeping it on the golden path.
@@davepeesthepool but how did he do that?
@@duongtunganh1662 He took a sandtrout (or multiple) and wore it like clothing. It then integrated with his body as it tried to suck the moisture out of his body. Sandtrout are kind of like a larvae stage to sandworms, so as that sandtrout matured and turned to a worm, Leto did the same.
@@duongtunganh1662 I think most people doing the same thing with a sandtrout would have just ended their life as people need their moisture in their bodies to survive. But I think the ordeal he was put through being forced to take massive overdose levels of spice either somehow protected him or inhibited the sandtrout from just desiccating him somehow.
@@davepeesthepool well, sound kinda weird tho
Anya Taylor Joy really doesn't look like an Atreides, i think they went with popularity over consistency with that casting. Not to mention the lore changes around Alia 😒 only thing about Dune 2 i didn't love
How does she not look like an atreidis? I mean which features are you talking about?
Totally understandable in fact I do wish we get to see Child Alia in the throne room and killing the Baron. But at the same time I think Anya Taylor Joy could be a good Alia in Part 3 or Dune Messiah. Her movies like The Witch and The Northman proof that she can portrayed very creepy and disturbing characters?
@@WyattDucar Yeah shes definitely a great actress. I just don't see her in this role but im open to being proved wrong
@@shuvojyotisaha5575 Well most obviously she has blonde hair despite Leto and Jessica being brunette - Moreover Timothy is made to look like he could genuinely be related to Oscar Isaac in these films, with both having heavy curls and olive/tanned skin, while Anya has neither. Moreover Anya is partially known for her unique Mermaid-esque facial features which is great for distinguishing her profile generally but makes it even harder to believe that such a unique looking person is a member of the Atreides family which doesnt seem to have any of those unique features. Its not a big deal and I loved Dune and Dune 2, but I think its still worth bringing up, particularly because the 6 original Dune novels all put a huge emphasis on Atreides descendants all having a similar look and because Dune Messiah and Children of Dune specifically mention that Alia is supposed to look a lot like Jessica as an important plot point (no spoilers) with a few distinguishing Atreides features.
Plus like I said before, Im already a little disturbed by the massive changes to Alias lore in the Dune universe. Its worth chatting about at least
@@shuvojyotisaha5575 I think someone like Rachel Zegler would fit better from an aesthetics pov
It wasn't the Agamemnon of Greek myth.
Your missing a few people
So paul and the girl he's about to marry don't have kids?
Cymak General Agamemnon, leader of the enslavers of humanity and the programmer of the digital mind. Thr digital mind that overthrew the cymaks and ruled humanity for thousand of years. General Agamemnon is the sire of Vorian Atreides, who is the progenitor of house Atriedes.
Yeah.... I don't care for the Brian Herbert novels as much. Considering he worked with Kevin J. Anderson (who wrote Star Wars novels I read as well), Kevin ties way too many things in a cute bow. Almost lore breaking. I think Frank hints of Ancient Greece were 1000 times better.
13 Agamemnon's child. There were also a brother and sister, born from the seed of Agamemnon, raised and modified by Juno.
Are the Atreides really descended from those mythical figures or do they just claim to be. I'd err towards the latter.
Yeah they are. Agamemnon even tried to possess Alia (or was it Leto) in Children Of Dune.
It would be roughly 1000 generations down. Mathematically speaking, if Agamemnon were to have any living descendants at all by then, then literally every human being in the universe would have to be descended from him.
@@astrotter The same applies to Ghengis Khan.
Skip all the ancestors lol I want my 8 minutes back haha
Laughed my ass out "fat boy here"
We know who Ghanima has kids with..... Leto II ordered it.
C est faux car vous oubliez les titans et la vraie lignée des atreides
I am Spartacus
“Fat boy here” 😂😂
mohiam is NOT jessica mother. that's just BH/KJA cash grab horsesh nonsense. brian herbert is NOT canon
4:39 is me when i was baby i played Leto II Atreides with my twinn brother
So the family with a history of animal torture for fun had their karma 😂
princess irulan 🪐🪐🪐🏜🌱☘🌼🌷🦋🍃🌼
just ignoring his ancestors from the machine war...1 helped start the shit and the other helped end it
That’s all from the Brian Herbert books, not the mind of Frank Herbert. Most fans don’t consider Brian Herbert stuff as canon.
@@stephengrant4841 yes as somebody who has read the entire series both new and old i would know that...some of the newer stuff is garbage but i fully enjoyed the machine crusade editions
Gaius Helen IS NOT canonically his grandmother.
His father's beard is his brother