How To Resurface Cylinder Heads
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2016
- Check out Kalvinator Engines: www.kalvinatorengines.com
This is not something you do in your garage at home. As you can see in the video, to do this 'properly', you need specialized equipment like the machine you see in this video.
Since not many people get to see this process in action, I decided to make this video while I was at Kalvinator Engines having my engine built, #DarkMatterPikachu.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed making this video.
Thanks to Justin Frische for his help in this video.
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Engine Details
Displacement: 363cid
The Block: www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/PBM/...
The Crank: www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/PBM/...
The Heads: performanceparts.ford.com/par...
Compression: 8.9:1
The Cam: Comp Cams custom grind: 222@.050" 222@.050 .357"lobe lift .571" valve lift (1.6 rocker) .351" lobe lift .562" valve lift (1.6 rocker) 114º separation 4ºadvance
Modified: Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
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My dad taught me everything there is to know about gasoline engines when I was around 14, using an old Ford 289 V8 as demonstration. The one thing he couldn't show me was all this machine work. After 30 years I always wondered what this was like now you're finally showing me first hand. Thanks a bunch!
I'm envious, I wish I had a dad like you 😏
@@bizzyizzy9526 I wish I had a dad LOL
Going through my Apprenticeship at the Shipyard I work at, I had to take a class on machining and was fascinated with how milling machines and the like worked. Completely amazing that the little blade will cut through all of that material so precisely.
Christopher Sipes how did you comment 16 hours ago that was published 6 minutes ago?? Time traveler....
Bob Marley no idea, guess I am a time traveler. If Art Bell was still on the radio I would call in.
he used a really old version of Internet explorer
Christopher Sipes That's because it's going fast. Anything going fast enough can cut anything.
The true value of a professional automotive machine shop and machinest can never be over stated! This is almost a dying art, we need to be training more young people to learn this valuable trade. This has been a great set of videos , Eric. Thanks for showing the goings on in a true machine shop. Maybe it will spark interest in one or more of you viewers to take up a career in this trade.
anyone can bolt an engine together....these machinists are true craftsman. more education needs to focused on the trades and not everyone going to college to get what is usually a useless degree.
@@workingshlub8861 no money in it. I went to school for machining and unless u work for a raceteam or have your own shop just no money. Besides machining is good for race engines but dealerships won't do any of this stuff nor will the guy in his garage.
Yeah, pressing a button must be hard.
You are very right my friend I am a retired machine shop worker the skills have almost gone I had to adapt to CNC machining as that's where the work was to very different skills
@@sschevmale24 who do you think our customers are then? Your right about the money though. As a Journeyman Machinist I make about double the hourly rate of typical automotive machinists.
Went to college with Frische, awesome dude! Glad to hear ETCG has heard of Kalvinator Engines
Justin nice head job, Eric is very satisfied. have to see this out ...
CBN = cubic boron nitride. It's slightly softer than diamond.
Just searched for a short video to take a look what to expect from this channel and I really like it! Definitely going to watch more in the future :)
Cool tool, my friend had one at his shop,,we used it on some of my engine stuff as well as my 3.4 GM head when I changed head gaskets..he recommended to resurface the head even if it didn't overheat..
After checking plate you can do. Overheat not recomend because head always heat and cold
I'm loving these machine shop videos. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Eric excellent video, I have a question hopefully you can help me, is when to use oversized head gasket after the cylinder head has been resurfaced, the machine shop has to indicate that?, Do you have to measure ?, or is it not necessary ?, the service manual does not say anything related to this, it only says about measuring piston protrusion to calculate for oversized head gasket, but not for resurfaced, thank you in advanced.
Bro thank you for talking about the blade and showing it because I was super curious about it you’re such a good person 🤜🏼
Funny some heads have a warp that matches the block..i would clean off block & head & set the head it back down on the block then take a feeler gauge to see if it fits like a puzzle..dont see to many blocks getting machined but aluminum can warp once pressure is released.. might be straight right when you take it off but let it set on a table overnight during the winter it may not be straight by morning..i played with some TTY bolts torquing them to certain torque then extra 1/4 turn then measure the length before & after results leaving me scratching my head ..the bolts all range from a 0- 1/16 of inch..so if we are worried about paper thin gap to start with wouldn't a bolt that is stretching more cause the warp..only thing I could do is to retorque but to do this there had to be a final torque value at the 1/4 turn..so I use a old dial torque wrench to see what each value would be at the 95 degree turn..2 bolts were off by 10 pounds under..those turn a extra 1/8 to get the same ..to.many variables friction even with chasing each hole & using a light lube..some go into water jackets so sealer can slow it down.. i got a headache ...lol later
Wow dude this is super satisfying to watch. I am in the process of having this done to one head I own!
Hello everyone I have two questions one is when I’m redoing my heads do I have to somehow machine the block flat or are those less susceptible to warpage. Also I only have one bad cylinder can I only redo that sides head on a v style motor?
Awesome!! Love it....you have a great skill and great job mate.
So is this a glorified application specific fly cutter?
did you sand the sharp edges off of the combustion chambers after the resurfacing?
good question. the father frische was paying close attention to air flow in the other vid, so i assume they will.
as a fellow machinist, we use a carbide bit in a die grinder. nothing that is performance comes off of the resurfacer without the chambers chamfered.
Is there a specification on 350 heads when a resurface should be done?
Hey Eric I did over my head on my Honda crv 1997 because it over heated, Shaved it used a new head gasket. But the pure oil is coming out of the radiator. When the engine is running, Its a milky colour.
Great video...how much would your customer have to pay to get this resurfacing done?
Great vedio! Thanks alot! Is it a must to shave heads after new valve job an lapping or can they go back on? Thanks
Do you have to resurface new out of the factry aftermarket heads? or is it just a suggestion?
I still do this old school style. Couple pieces of 80 /120 grit glued to a sheet of melamine. It takes a while but it works. Still waaaay faster than taking it to the machine shop.
Why melamine? School me
@@shiloh4184 Its fairly flat. Not as flat as glass but flat enough. And it will not break. I attached two handles on the back so I can apply steady even pressure front to back. Use long even strokes ensuring the entire head will be covered each pass. Use a board long enough and enough sand paper to ensure complete coverage. even pressure and total coverage is key. After 5 - 10 strokes rotate the board 180 and continue. After 20 - 30 strokes you can see what areas are still low, dirt and cutting oil will gather. I also use a little tap magic (aluminum) on the head. Makes the cutting easier. I have heard of folks doing this and working up to 3000 grit. The result was smooth and shinny. I think I never went higher than 220. Leaves hatch marks of the surface. Seems to always seal up fine.
@@omorin34 how many engines have you done this to?
@@princetchalla2441 2 engines. A V-8 and a I-4. So three heads total. 10 years on one, 4 years on the other, no leaks.
Wow, roughly how much time did that take? I never thought it would be possible to do it like that
Thank you Eric. I always wanted know how is done, I appreciate the info.
Can the signs of a head gasket be blown actually be the intake and exhaust gasket?
I've been thinking about getting this done on my car (which is a model know for head gasket issues) as a preventative measure.
How do you pull out a motor for from a Firebird 96 it's got at 3800 through the top through the bottom
I have to do this to my sisters car but what about where the camshaft sits at the grooves 3 of them need to be shaved down to get it smoothedon top how would shave that down unless they do it when they do the bottom end at the valves
EricTheCarGuy how would you go about prepping a block for reinstalling a fresh head after this would be performed?
Thank you!
Just wish we have those machines at my college for engine rebuilding class.
Not saying it is wrong to take it to a machine shop and the guy seemed very nice at the machine shop, I would worry a bit if the person did not use dye and a light to look for cracks in the heads, measure across the head all 9 points of measurement. Did the guy verify the heads were actually warped?
Second it is a common misconception that a person cannot lap a head by hand at home to not only level it but fit it perfectly. They simply refuse to believe it is possible. However, the example I use generally squashes that argument. Jean Bugatti literally lapped both the block and the head by hand on every engine he built. The surface was so flat and perfect that the need for a head gasket was not required and so the engines he built flat out have no head gaskets.
Now how to do it at home. Glass is an absolute flat surface by nature (if anyone does not believe this put a straight edge on any glass top table and try to squeeze a .0015 feeler gauge between the two) glue sand paper to it and lap away and is better done with water to help lubricate the paper so your head does not stick. Do not go any higher than 800 grit so your new gasket has something to bite (the only reason you'd still need the gasket and can't do what Bugatti did is most people will not hand lap their block so even though the head is as flat as can be the block is not). this is also why Bugatti only turned out around 15 cars per year. So if an engineer with the credentials like Jean Bugatti says it is ok to do then it is fine to listen to him.
Sure a machine shop is faster but for the people who still want full control over every aspect of their engine build or just simply does not have the money to take it to a machine shop this is an excellent alternative.
This method I have tried on a head the engine was still running even after the body of the car rotted away. I also use this method to deck the top of a 1911 frame and everyone who sees the gun always asks how I got such a flat top and the fit between the slide and the frame so perfect. It was so perfect that when the gun was viewed from the rear of it you could not tell where the frame ended and the slide began it all looked like a single piece of metal.
evilcowboy thank you for taking the time to write this comment out. I so very much appreciate it! Thank you sir
How is glass flat by nature?
how old r u,?,200,old school,.decking a head raises comp,plus,its level.why root around in the back shed,take it in,it get cleaned,decked,seats re done inserts,crack checked,ect..back in the old days,they said if you take the head off an engine,its ruined.utter garb...
If the mating surface are so nice and slick do you even still need a head gasket?
....you can do it in your garage if you have a big knee mill in there :-)
CBN cutters in this context are actually just special fly cutters with round CBN inserts. CBN is "Cubic Boron Nitride" and is the second hardest material known to man next to synthetic diamond, but you can get CBN inserts in a variety of shapes. The round just happens to work best for flat resurfacing on a dedicated machine. They're pretty pricey though. I haven't seen "low quality" CBN for less than 75 bucks (non-auction/special circumstance price, that is)
When you resurfacing head gaskets do you only resurfaced the top head where the valves go into or also resurface the bottom where the cylinders go?
Just the head, the cylinder block never warps
Very interesting. The head looks awesome.
my dads shop used to have the table version of this tho... u drag the head over it with some lubricate so it slides across and resurfaces it, its prolly more old school tho
CBN: Cubic Boron Nitride which is a very heat resistant and hard wearing material. It's great for working cylinder heads thanks to its resistance to high temperatures and wear and is better for specific applications than something like tungsten carbide... another paragon of tough materials as it doesn't necessarily need a lubricant! Tungsten does for milling steel or anything stronger than steel.
So how do you get the cylinder head to be perfectly horizontal on the milling machine?
I'm not sure on the actual jigging going on, but at the end, once it's bolted down, they use a dial indicator to see if the old surface is as level to the machine bed as possible. I think I seen his use a precision machinists bubble level on the head. If the machine is perfectly level, then just level out the head to match. Then push a button
hey please i have a question on bloc engine its marked the bore cylinder class , for example "abac" can i use piston classe "B 71.98" if the cylinder classe "a 72.00" is worn but still in the limit of classe b lets say 72.02" ? the mix is possible ? cause the workshop says that if classe "a" exced the limit , rebore the cylinder 0.1 and use oversize 0.1 piston
Cylinder "A" 72,00-72.01 /// Piston "A" 71,965-71,97
Cylinder "B" 72.01-72.02 /// Piston "B" 71,97-71,98
Cylinder "C" 72.02-72.03 /// Piston "C" 71,98-71,99
over size cylinder "A" 72.10-72.11 /// over size piston "A" 72,065-72,07
over size cylinder "B" 72.11-72.12 /// over size piston "B" 72,07-72,08
over size cylinder "C" 72.12-72.13 /// over size piston "C" 72,08-72,09
I have been a mechanic for 45 yrs. I must have been living on another planet, I have never yet heard of heads unwarping themselves.
Just think of how much money could be saved.
Just wait for the heads to unwrap.
Could it be done at warpspeed
Hi Eric
In the spec height head 92.95 - 93.05 mm,
I did resurface 0.3 mm to 92.75 mm.
What do you prefer using gasket original or after market
🙏🏻
How long do they usually charge u to get it done
this would bump up compression as well right? unless you use a thicker gasket to take up the cut off space?
yes because millimeters count when building an engine.
With a cut this small (3 thou) I wouldn't worry too much about increased compression, or timing chain/belt slack on a factory engine. A custom engine build like this one then yes every thou cut will need to be accounted for.
bumblebeecbr
Well yes because I'm sure he will sit down and do the maths for the cam so he can get the measurements correct. And that will be done after all machining has been completed.
You should worry more about piston to valve clearance than compression.
we've cut 30 thou off of a VW head that was used for dirt tracks just for compression. a 3 thou pass wont really have that much of an impact depending on the head. for example a hino straight 6 is gear to gear and is scrap if you have to take more than 4 thou off. valve clearance is the biggest issue, especially if its overhead cam solid lifter.
What's up man I have a question.. I have a 302 96 F150 and I was wondering do I need to get my heads redone. I crank my truck up one morning ran inside to grab something came back out and my truck was leaking from the throttle body or one of them little caps. So I looked at the temperature gauge and my truck wasn't even warmed up at all yet. Well anyways I cut it off and check the radiator ahead oil and the radiator but I did not have water in the oil. And it didn't get a chance to run hot yet so would I still need to get my heads redone? Do you think that they are warped? The truck only has 57,000 original miles it's a 1996 Ford F-150 XLT 5.0 just curious thanks so much
I always thought the head would be better off indicated in than using a precision level - its still a level !!!
Hi Eric! Why we need to resurface the Cylinder head?
Just a question guys when replacing a head gasket, do I only need to get this machined or the block to?
@InnerGuide as far as I found out it depends on the car some need to be machined some don't
what about VVT engines? Won't removing material affect timing? I heard this can cause timing codes in Toyotas.
Eric,how much is a cylinder head resurfacing machine?
Questions: how much does the compression ratio change? And can a bubble level be accurate enough for milling in the thousands of an inch range?
I can't say how much the compression ratio would change, a very small amount I would imagine. I do know that the machinist's level is highly accurate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer's_spirit_level
after resurfacing they tell the mechanic how much they took off the head so they get a thicker gasket to compensate, leaving the compression ratio the same
Most heads it barely changes a thing and you just reinstall and away you go. There are a few we have absolute limits on and some we shim to keep things the same.
how you know when you need to resurface heads?
@ericthecarguy do you need a thicker headgasket after resurfacing to compensate for the lost material? i guess in classic american OHV-V8 engines you probably need it, because the valveopenings would be off center, but what about inline engines? will it increase compression to a dangerous level?
Not really. I'll be covering the head gasket and combustion chamber volume in future videos.
Thank you this is the one question that has been keeping me up at night. @eric at what point do u need a thicker gasket?
Maybe in the US it's different and machine shops are still a reputable and honest place to go to without paying for an arm and a leg, but where I'm from not only are machine shops very rare, they are most always old, dodgy, run by questionable people who rarely use proper measuring tools and preparation procedures. I would never send my engine parts to a machine shop. It also costs a lot more than it's worth.
I'm currently rebuilding my engine and I'm doing it all by hand. I am willing to learn but also on a budget. I've had bad experience with other shops before.
As the saying goes; "want something done right? Gotta do it yourself".
Hey eric i resurfaced my b20 head and timing is on mark but when i try to adjust timing with timing light the pointer is aligned with tdc mark so that mean im far away from the 3 marks i need to be… distributor can go further… i was thinking maybe because i resurfaced my head it mess up the timing anything like that. Love your video have a nice one man
How much does it cost to resurfaces?
What is the name of that place who mills the heads?
thanks for video i was looking long time how its work
Justin Frische needs his own show!
How much does this cost to resurface your cylinder head? And can we achieve this with sandpaper?
nice surfacer， beautiful machine! is there a DIY solution for that ? thanks
The simple answer is the one you aren't going to like. If you have to ask, then no. Technically you can do it by hand with days (as in 24+ hours) of work. But frankly you are better off applying to McDonalds, working 2 weekends, and then quitting and using that pay to finance it rather than doing it yourself. Because this is one of many things that must be done and every single thousandth you take off can really matter in the long run.
Many thanks for the video.
Can't we use sand paper ?
Can be done with a file
What is the cnc bit you use sir thank
Where could I go to get this done? I live in southern California. Thanks in advance for any help
Any speed/performance shop.
Could you do this on a Bridgeport style mill with an endmill?
Make sure you tram the head, and use a flycutter, do not use an endmill. best regards
@@OleTheRealG I second your comment. :)
I’d like to know how they decide what “level” is on surface that is not flat.. because it’s getting resurfaced.
How much does this typically cost? Do aluminum heads require a different machine than cast iron.
Average price seems to be around $100 for resurfacing and a wash. Cast iron and aluminum use same machine and for the most part same insert. Some diesel heads are really hard so we have another grade of CBN for them. Some aluminum need a fussier finish so we have PCD inserts for those. Most of the time though the standard CBN insert does it all.
I don't know much about mechanics, just a guy that likes cars... Question. At what point will this this cause the pistons to bang against the valves or the cylinder head?
Each head/engine is made with a certain amount of material that can be machined off. Some have markings that appear or disappear when the limits are reached.
Piston height and rod length can also be adjusted to effect the top height of the piston crown when it is at the top of its stroke.
Stay gold.
How to avoid valves to botom out into to the cilinder after that?
I have a small external head gasket leak on one side. it's so small I didn't even have to add coolant between 10,xxx miles. bit I believe I have a break in between cylinders on the other side causing my slight rough idle and po300 that rarely lights up. how do I resurface the block because it's in the car? or do I just resurface the heads if needed? also, I'll be cleaning everything and doing valve stem seals because everything will be apart. thanks for the help.
if the block needs resurfacing then you need to remove the block from the car.
normally though, it is the cylinder heads that warp, due to them being made of aluminium and other alloys. normally your block is iron so it doesn't warp that easily. if you pull the heads and find that the block is warped however, then you will need to remove the engine to resurface it.
if you REAAALLLY cant remove the engine, then you can DIY resurface it using fairly high grits of sandpaper say 600 and working upto 1000 or 2000 and a large wood block, around the size of the engine. however the is not the "right" way to do it, and I'm sure i will get many reply's telling me that it wont work. yes it will, its just not the norm.
snipeish1 it's never overhead, just noticed the head being slightly wet when I was doing the transmission filter. but I've done everything to the car to fix a po300 so I'm 99 percent sure it's the gasket because I don't have any smoke and very very minor loss of coolant but idk because it slightly leak. But it has dex cool and sat for 8 years so much corrosion when I did intake gaskets. But I doubt anything is warped but I'll have a shop check the heads. thanks
sneakysnakepie1 no worries. good idea to get them checked whenever you pull them. if it's just a small external leak then you'll probably get away with just replacing the headgasket yourself. maybe look to see if there is an uprated gasket for your engine made aftermarket.
Sir which tool did you use to facing head ?
Where are you located at? Nice video!!
Heads, brake rotor's and flywheel's are things I always have machined. Unless being replaced. Do it right or do it twice.
Great video.
What’s the feed and spindle speed on that?
So when you resurface the heads or block how does that change the rest of the build? You would have to accommodate for the material removed, yes? How is this done? Is there thicker head gaskets or what?
In context, not enough was removed to be significant. The head gasket and combustion chamber volume will be covered in future videos.
I believe you have some little hole that notice you the maximum amount of material you can remove.
Nice head Eric!
That’s looks 🤩 amazing!!!
There's very few of these kind of workshops left in the UK, its become a throw away culture, which i think is a great shame, however its good to see its still alive and well in the US.
Great video 👍
How much is too much? Are there markings to use as a guide to know on the head you have gone too far or someone before you might have already done it and it's time for a new head because it can't be shaved anymore...
How much can you even take off before the pistons start hitting the head?
Amber57499 That will only happen if you start skimming the engine block itself. Regards.
So if one head cylinder needs work for whatever reason the other head cylinder also need to be resurfaced?
No, not really. We do recomend it though. If you blew a headgasket we have no way to tell how reliable the other will be. Could be on the verge of letting go also.
where do I tale it?
do you have to adjust the valve clearance after this?
Nabre Labre absolutely
What kind machine are you using
I've heard that also. .. let the engine cool off completely so it'll warp back up
Toyota 4.0 V6 heads are recommended to NOT resurface. What is reason?
won't the pistion hit the top of the head now that head will be closer to the pistion how do you go about making up for the difference
No.
Just got my head resurfaced from the machine shop. How do I use to clean it
Tony Yang Brake cleaner and a paper towel
is the block done ?? hehe dumb question i know >.
like to see more of these and longer too. Thx
That's what SHE said! :-P
no i want more wrenching videos.
This would increase performance slightly would it not as the cut from the block and head would increase the compression ratio ever so slightly.
Or does it not work that way.
You gain some compression and if a lot of material is removed you sometimes have to mill the intake too. You also have to readjust the valves also. It's amazing how changing the diameters and specifications can change the performance of an engine. Sometimes for worse.
It does increase the compression very, very slightly. Not enough to have any real effect since the engine is designed to be able to compensate for the increase. They have milling marks on both the head and block to denote how much material can be removed before the engine is out of spec. Anything within those parameters will make factory power on a factory build.
Yea, that's why you have to re-tune your timing and adjust the camshaft after any machining is done, because there will always be a slight different in displacement whenever you take some weight of combustion chamber or spacing on either side of the gaskets.
Great deal Eric.!!
that shine at the end
@3:30 LOL the look on his face!
PCD is the correct insert for aluminum not CBN, CBN is for resurfacing cast iron. CBN works for aluminum but not as well as PCD.
excellent video again :)
Thats beautiful! That engine when all assembled will out value the car its in ten fold!!!
But it wouldnt be a proper sleeper if it didnt ;-)
Another awsome video, thanks Eric.
I've had many heads machined over the years, but I have never seen the magic happen. That was until now!!
Could they be the heads from the mighty truck?
Eric; your heads are born again, and very Holy... TTFN
Love these machines..
yeah no yeah i knew how it was done. but i cant still do it myself. actually I did it myself once with a straightedge, feeler gauges and sand paper.. took hours