As fans, we may be lost in the science of trying to explain it in material or theoretical terms. I like to believe Dilla worked entirely off feel. Whatever made his neck crank as hard as the song could go. There's many examples of him breaking this swing formula (donuts, champion sound) and many anecdotes of him using other gear that had its own idiosyncrasies which he would've relished. Fact, he was intentionally pushing timing around to maximise the impact of the downbeat. He didn't even need loud punchy snares, he set that anticipation up perfectly and he couldn't do that with grids. Add to that all the rub, friction and movement in the bass, claps and percussive elements that make the drums even more 'swingy'. For me it's so much about making tasteful decisions with sound selection and letting each part breathe and talk within his own universe of sound design. RIP to the greatest.
It's impossible to make a "Dilla beat" just like it's impossible for someone else to replicate our own beats. There's been times when I accidentally erased my own shit and tried to recreate it lol. Your grandma can give you the recipe for her famous sweet potato pie gram for gram, and it's still going to come out different. Dilla is just one of a kind, like how we all are. At the end of the day, there is no grid for our motion to snap to. The best thing to do is not focus on the grid, but the rhythm of your own drums, and you'll be ok.
Actually it’s 1/384 not 1/128 when you turn off quantize on the original 3000 without the Vailixi mod, you can look it up in the manual. You can use many techniques to achieve the feel, in the end it’s only having the notes offset and not being on the grid. However what the 3000 excels at is being able to manipulate the offsets precisely in ticks, thus you learn how much it is and can use shift timing to your advantage.
Lemme know if you want me to cover Kanye West sampling techniques next! *Samples used* Groovy Gems: 6teenlevels.com/products/groovy-gems-vol-1-sample-pack Killerhertz: 6teenlevels.com/products/killerhertz-90s-boombap-one-shot-sample-pack Dilla drums: 6teenlevels.com/products/the-sauce-pack-vol-1 Dilla drums 2: 6teenlevels.com/products/the-tribute-drum-pack GET 50% OFF ORDERS USE THE CODE: 50HIPHOP (excludes bundle deals)ends 9/5/2023
R.I.P. Dilla, Everyone should remember that the basis of hip hop is to be "fresh" not really clear why so many people wanna bite this mans style and think its ok. Come up with your own tricks, be original, thats hip hop
That's like asking why guitarists emulate jimi, or why hoopers study Michael Jordan. They man mastered a style of beatmaking, and basically created a sub genre of hip-hop. Of course people are going to study him and implement his techniques
Your debunk is wrong. What the book actually says is that dilla swung some things and shifted other stuff around. Not necessarily the same thing being swung and shifted. So he may have swung the hats and shifted the snares...which the 3000 is more than capable of. He also didnt use that stupid "microchop" technique. Anyone with ears can hear that dillas chops were on the transients. SMH. stop spreading foolishness.
if you ain't got the skills you wont be making any good music. And it doesn't matter what you use. I started in Madtracker and used almost everything after. I respect all the hard and software but the person behind it should know how to make proper beats and pick whatever works for them@@AveMcree
Word to note only mpc 3000 units fitted with Vailixi 3.5 chips and OS have the 1/128, 1/192 and 1/384 off timing features as extras features and the chips came out in the early 2000s I believe. The Roger Linn OG mpc 3000 only have 1/384 off timing. In the 90’s most the legends used the OG mpc 3000 with the original akai chips. There are many ways to get the feel and Marlow Diggs shows his way using both 2xl, mpc studio, x, live and etc. My two cents that mpc 3000 most overlooked innovation was step editor know called list editor which allows you to put your hits exactly where you want after you played it in regardless of timing correct is on or not.
@@tommyk88888If you are asking about the mpc j Dilla started with it was an OG mpc 3k the same as I once had at 1/384 off quantization. Like we stated the Vaiilxi chip came out in 2007. So mpc 3000 was released in 1995 and I believe he start working with it from 1996 or 1997 maybe. No Vaiilxi chips existed at that time his work with Tribe, D’Angelo, Badu, SV, and Busta speak for themselves no 1/128 on the mpc 3000 at that time. But step edit has been there from the beginning.
i guess you have the VAILIXI 3.50 OS, as you can chose 1/128 when quant is off. I dunno if Dilla used the VAILIXI 3.50 OS on his early stuff. VAILIXI 3.50 OS came 2007
You can snap to 1/128 in FL Studio by Quantizing to the 1/4 step grid since it's automatically on 1/16. Even then, I still think using anything that has quintuplet or septuplet quantization will get you close enough
@@artisans8521He used the 303 for most of Donuts and The Beach Boys project he was working on near the end of his life. We all heard those stories, before he even passed, about his mom and friends bringing him records and equipment to the hospital so he could make beats when he was sick. He was using the 303 that Madlib put him onto in California at that point. This has been confirmed countless times by nearly everyone who was around him at the time (Egon, J Rocc, House Shoes, etc.) The thing that people get wrong about that period is, a) he also used the 3000 for Donuts on some beats, b) he probably did the majority of the beats during the times he wasn’t in the hospital, and c) the Stones Throw engineers played a big part in the making of Donuts and had to do some heavy editing to make “songs” out of what Dilla did. From what I’ve heard over the years, some or most of the original beats used for Donuts were 20 -30 seconds long. I also remember watching a video early on in RUclips (like 2007 or 2008), where Dilla was sitting with one of the engineers from Stones Throw on a computer, and they were working on Donuts. In the clip, he keeps telling the engineer to drag snares or kicks backward, or push them further ahead in the pro tools session. I think they even playfully argued at one point like, “that’s going to sound like shit!” … and Dilla said something like, “I know!” That last part about the conversation is not exactly verbatim, but it was something to that effect. The bigger point is … Dilla used Pro Tools as an essential part of his beat making process from the time he put his studio set up together in Detroit, so from the late 90’s-2000 and on.
Here's the thing about swing tho, it's not just a sampler terminology. It's a musical concept (as you know). So just because someone isn't using the swing function doesn't mean you aren't swinging like crazy! So to say Dilla didn't swing--ehhh I don't think I'd ever utter that sentence. But I get what you were saying from a producer's perspective. Thanks for breaking down these finer points on the 3000!
@@AveMcree talking about the part where you ask "did he swing?" @ 5:09 and you explain swing function isn't available if you're using the 1/128 method. But you're right, you didn't directly answer the question. I will tho---Dilla was swinging mane!! "Swing and bounce" are nearly the same thing, only older musicians tend to use the word "swing" (New Jack Swing, for instance), producers and younger cats use the word "bounce" (which Timbo popularized). We're splitting hairs, but this is a split-the-hairs type o' video. Again, thanks for the breakdown, I learned something for sure.
@@creamfiend84 exactly. Swing in jazz is where you if you take two 8th notes---emphasize the first note and shorten the second. It still fits into a single beat, but the feel is different ("bouncy"). Boom Bap hip hop is built around this swing concept too. All the machine is doing when you turn up the "swing" is making that first eighth note longer, and the second one shorter. No swing: "da da da da" 50% swing: "daa da daa da" 90% swing: "daaaa d daaaa d"
How bad nostalgia is. Really, when people become obsessed with Dilla, wanting to prove that they know everything about him, that's when they become more ridiculous. The truth is that the dead man took all his secrets to the grave, like M. Jackson, F. Mercury, James Brown, J-Live, Guru, MCA... Making a fool of yourself every time they bring up Jay Dilla with new “how he did it” advice is not good. They make fools of themselves and a kitten always dies.
It's challenging covering Dilla since he's not with us anymore, but guys like Showbiz and Diamond D are still here and would probably love to chop it up with you if you invited them on your channel - Even Kenny Dope who's extra stupid on an MPC...would love to see you get some perspective from dudes like that.
Hold up.. you just proved my point about all these so-called youtube teachers by saying they have the main person technic, but really, it's just click bait
Dilla is the goat in my opinion, so much so that when I went by Dillinger in the electronic scene I changed my name the first time some kid shortened it to dilla.. there’s only one Dilla. However, I don’t think J Dilla put nearly as much effort into thinking this stuff out as the people trying to dissect it have just gotta do it feels good to you. I’m pretty sure that was his whole ethos.
Very interesting, and Thanks for the clarification.. I definitely Respect the Brother J Dilla's contributions to HipHop and his indeed UNIQUE style and craftmanship... But All In All, I hope music producers of today are continuously focusing on their INDIVIDUAL personal styles...even if J Dilla has some influence in it... #Salute
Probably never because the information in this video is valid. Unlike the culture vultures you like watching. The people who taught me were around J dilla.
Wow, this video really completes the information given in the book "Dilla Time". It was the missing piece of the puzzle! This really shows that the MPC 3000 is worth the money for those who willing to dig deep! I am really glad that you mentioned Slynk's video. I learned a lot from it. With the modern MPCs, we have a Split Event feature that makes it possible to recreate Slynk's experiments with quintuplet and septuplet swing, and even do crazier time subdivisions.
3:40 Ableton Live also has a groove pool with the same swing templates used by the MPC. At least they are named as such. I don't have a real MPC to a/b them against.
I wonder if cats like Dilla ever used that word either. It seems like a buzz word for something that has been around for much longer than the term. First time I heard it was when Blue & Exile, Below The Heavens came out.
This thing was swing drives me crazy. People quantizing their drums and then using swing to move notes off the grid. How about just not quantizing your drums in the first place? If you actually just play your drums with human timing you'll get swing. It might take a bit more effort and a few takes sometimes but it's just way more natural.
Thanks for your tutelage about breaking down beats etc. I used to have the older MPC’s decades ago. I had purchased the MPC one + a while ago after I came home from the hospital 🏥 with a stroke. I’m working on making beats again and I’m figuring out a lot of things on the MPC one + and either going through the computer or just plain raw with the beats. You and I are probably the same age. I’ll be 54 on September 26. I’m not going to stop until I cannot do this anymore. Life is short, take every day and do you to your fullest ability. Keep up the good work and if I have any questions, I’ll definitely come to you for help. That stroke kind of made me feel a little bit lightheaded but it’s temporary. Probably too much medication 💊 and it’s side effects. God bless you abundantly my brother ❤
Thanks for sharing, I knew there’s was more to uncover in regards to Dillla’s technique. It wasn’t just the technology, Dilla had an instinct in the feel of a song. He told stories by focusing on the emotion.
So before ' 07 there was only 1/384 as quant off, as both my MPC-3000 and the Manual states. in '07 VAILIXI 3.50 OS added quant functions : "New timing correct/step size options: 1/128 and 1/192 timing correct OFF note value resolutions added. 1/4, 1/4TRPLT, 1/64, 1/64TRPLT timing correct note value resolutions added. Swing is now available for 1/4, 1/4TRPLT, 1/8, 1/8TRPLT, 1/16, 1/16TRPLT, 1/32, 1/32TRPLT,1/64, 1/64TRPLT" in the standard MPC-3000(LE) machine and manual: "1/8 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/8-note 1/8 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/8-note triplet 1/16 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/16-note 1/16 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/16- note triplet 1/32 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/32-note 1/32 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/32- note triplet OFF(1/384): No timing correction-in this setting, the highest resolution of the MPC3000 is used-96 divisions per 1/4-note." @@uberbeats1727
The MPC 3000's MSRP was $3700 as far as what info I could find regarding it stated. Idk if the LE was more or not, but this is what the last 9 LE's sold for on reverb, which 5 of sold for below the MSRP of the original 3000. Higher end discontinued machines often end up increasing in value once the supply starts thinning out. Look at the elektron Machinedrum, or the DSI tempest's msrp was $1200 now good luck getting one for under $1600
Um… owning an MPC 3000 don’t make you an expert on Dilla. And please bro. Leave Navie and Digging The Greats well alone. If you want to bad enough, anyone can emulate Dilla’s timing with almost any fully-featured tool. By using primarily **drum roll please** their fuckin ears.
"show me how to tell someone they wrong, without saying they are wrong"... Watch this video & let someone who actually knows Dilla explained his "micro chopping" process ruclips.net/video/T-h1K34Y468/видео.htmlsi=95vmBWqsdxwsVKDA
@@AveMcree i was thinking about donuts album. I watched that questlove clip before. He said he used only 12 pads on his mpc thats barely "micro sampling" and if you listen to sample carefully he only took beginning when a guy speaks for a few seconds and edited him out and tok one micro chop of rhodes and than put some rap acapella samples over it. It looped smothly doe cant lie. Madlib and alc do same or more complex beats and people never praise them its just dilla thats god somehow. Donuts has tons of editing and was done in daw atleast what says in the book and it seems logical because for some beats you would need more than 4 banks 64 (mpc 3000) pads to do it. And people saying for 20 years it was made with sp 303 lol
People assuming and speculating on his technique has actually been a good thing for creativity purposes….there is a formula. Paul C knew it too…taught it to Large Pro. Dilla had multiple techniques and ways to make a beat. This is the difference. Most cats can only make a beat 1 or two ways. That said…however you do it…as long as the end result is dope…thats really all that matters.
Honestly I thought Dilla was dragging back the trim line on his kicks and snares on the MP3000, then throw the swing value up to about 60%... that's how I got the Dilla swing/feel when I did the drum tracks. All this time I was wrong LOL 😆😆😆😆😆
After the vox video dropped (which was an excellent video), everybody (a new generation )caught J Dilla fever. Then re-interpreted it. Hence the silly mythological stuff. Computers have to do a lot more editing to capture what the 3k does naturally. In one pass. It’s not just the grid (shouts to Ave for this video. I learned something), But it’s also that rigid solid PPQ (pulses per quarter note) that Roger implemented into the electronics. It gives the 3k that stable dependable tightness that is so noticeable,even with a 1/128 setting. Plus I always believed that velocity on the one, which controls the metronome feel, works under the rules of an electro mechanical system rather than the 1s and 0s of a multi purpose computer. That’s why the loop of a 3k sounds so sweet. It’s that circuitry. Even with up tempo house type music the timing has this restraint that builds tension.
Micro Chopping can be done on any piece of equipment. You showed a method of auto/zone chopping that created 'micro' chops, but most of Dilla's chops came from sampling a new sound with each chop, involving backspinning the record over and over, sampling the next chop each time you played the record back. The method you showed only works if your sample is exactly 2 or 4 or 8 bars, it has to be a perfect loop to catch the chops at the right time.
So if I get this right, Dilla tutorials are wrong because Timing Correct (TC)/Quantization on "off" on the MPC 3000 is actually TC on 1/128 and you can't use swing in that mode? And you can't replicate that sound on modern MPCs because they only go up to 1/64 TC? This makes me wonder to what resolution a modern MPC quantizes if you put TC on "off": 1/1024, 1/2048?
@@MrBlueHaze 960 ppqn is the maximum display resolution according to the MPC settings. How can we be sure this is also the quantization grid if you put Timing Correct in off mode?
@@Drrolfski every sequencer has a maximum ppq before they break down to smaller units mpc X, live and etc are 960ppq, Elektron is 384ppq and Logic Pro is 3840 maybe and it goes on and on. This are the off settings.
@@MrBlueHaze I understand but how do you know for sure this of the modern MPC series? Because their settings speak of Display Resolution, not quantize resolution. In theory, these could be two separate stats.
@@Drrolfski yes the display settings can be set to 1/96 ppq just for display the data which I use for editing via the list editor but the maximum ppq is still 960 ppq regardless. You can reconfirm with mpc tutor he will tell you the same thing or with Marlow Digs
Shit i aint gon lie i know a few cats that have that sound down to a tee its just funny knowing its him or his soul in that style so its like hearing him in the afterlife. As if a message that his inspiration lives . So i can get how many artists go out of their way to try do something completely different to not get constant comparisons.
Got my MPC 3000 back in 1996. Got the MPC One in 2019. IMO the MPC One is better, which is crazy because the 3000 costed me (my grandmother financed it) like $2900 back then. I used several DAW's from 2005-2019 and hated all of them, even though Fruity Loops was pretty dope when I used it in tandem with chopping my samples in Adobe Audition.
We called it volume chopping cause that's change the micro chopping as well. Ave - one quest: when did you buy your 3k? And what's your most used model of all you have flying around? I used the 3k for 10 years straight and always had a backup unit cause that's what you need if you love the 3k! Very great video I wanted to add! Let the people know what's good
Hi If your right that there is no note off but 1/128, it s best video that you did, for me. Can you tell where this information Comes from, what is your source
Great video disecting different elements of production tools. Always interesting to see what different people use/used. Either way, its great to learn how people achieve their sound. I agree the tools do matter to a certain degree, BUT you will sound like YOU no matter what brand/tool you use.
My man earned that thumbs up. I’ve never seen the correct explanation using a 3000. I have the 2000xl and the One. Will some day add the 3K to my arsenal. Great vid!
Even if you have ten MPC-3000s, it doesn’t matter. J Dilla was one of the greatest and could make bangers on any DAW with just a mouse. It’s nonsense to say that you can’t recreate J Dilla’s style without an MPC-3000. He could recreate it with just a mouse, in any DAW, even on a phone. I know you are sponsored and need to talk about how gear makes you better but be honest with yourself. The younger generation will be stuck in an infinite loop if they listen to your advice. Teach them to use what they have and how to improvise. That way, their creativity will be at its highest. The way you are now, it sounds like you don’t want them to be accomplished.
J Dilla was alive when every single DAW on the market was open but he chose the MPC 3000 to do all of his major Bangerz. So you can argue to the high having all of that childish bullshit but guess what. It’s all opinions coming from you 😆
Fully appreciated this on point video brotha, i feel like you busted some myths on this one...super informative content, Didnt sugar coat a thang! Respect!!👍🏽👍🏽
Let’s bust the most important myth: the truth is that most of Dilla’s best known beats were made on the Sp1200, not the MPC3000. “Runnin”: Sp1200. All the slum village stuff: Sp1200. And dilla turned the quantise off on the Sp1200, but even with the quantise off the 1200 still quantises to 1/64th note triplets, because the 1200 has a resolution of 24ppq. And 1/64th note triplets means 24 ppq. So…bang in a beat to any sequencer with the quantise set to 1/64th note triplets. Play slightly sloppy. Instant Dilla “swing”. If your sequencer only goes up to 1/32nd note triplets, double the tempo and play at half speed. Same result. Myth busted. (BTW: using the terms of this video, quantising to 1/64th note triplets would be 1/96. And as others have pointed out, the 3000 only had 1/384 when Dilla was using it. 1/384 doesn’t “swing”. But 1/96 “swings” like Dilla. Try it!) “Let’s get more informative on this platform!”
It should be worth noting that Samples from Mars offers Grooves from Mars which offers quantization templates of various Samplers/Drum machines, one of them being the MPC 3000…however this is an approximation. Also the Sonicware Lofi 12 offers what it calls “drunk drumming (or Dilla quantization) while very good in its own right, close…but no cigar.
Hey Ave i was wondering if the MPC Renaissance works with the mpc 2.12 software, before i buy it. Im knew to mpc. I just bought the mpc studio 2, and i dont like the work flow of it, to much mouse using??
meh.....click bait! Do a video on pause and record tapes before you explain anything on chopping on a mpc 3000. I would like to think Dilla studied records first before he manipulated them. He was a dj first. You didn't talk about doubling the tempo to get more notes into the sequence.... Say turning a 75 tempo into 150 but keeping the feel on a 75 tempo.... you have more room to play with any notes! Also the timing correct plays a big difference when it comes to drum programming...you can just swing or not swing certain drum sounds like hi hats to fall back on the sequence more or less. That chop lesson you gave was taught to you by another person...I can do better chops on my phone....the secret is....studying the record...the drum machine not so much but learn the capabilities of it on your own...you got a 2000xl right as well for 500?
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
As fans, we may be lost in the science of trying to explain it in material or theoretical terms. I like to believe Dilla worked entirely off feel. Whatever made his neck crank as hard as the song could go. There's many examples of him breaking this swing formula (donuts, champion sound) and many anecdotes of him using other gear that had its own idiosyncrasies which he would've relished.
Fact, he was intentionally pushing timing around to maximise the impact of the downbeat. He didn't even need loud punchy snares, he set that anticipation up perfectly and he couldn't do that with grids. Add to that all the rub, friction and movement in the bass, claps and percussive elements that make the drums even more 'swingy'. For me it's so much about making tasteful decisions with sound selection and letting each part breathe and talk within his own universe of sound design. RIP to the greatest.
why we actin like dilla only used the 3000. he achieved his sound on damn near any device
Facts. Especially on Pro tools for loop edits and copy pa wav samples.
It's impossible to make a "Dilla beat" just like it's impossible for someone else to replicate our own beats. There's been times when I accidentally erased my own shit and tried to recreate it lol. Your grandma can give you the recipe for her famous sweet potato pie gram for gram, and it's still going to come out different. Dilla is just one of a kind, like how we all are. At the end of the day, there is no grid for our motion to snap to. The best thing to do is not focus on the grid, but the rhythm of your own drums, and you'll be ok.
Bro the amount of times I’ve erased beats and tried to remake them😂 You just gotta move on and create new ish💎
@@creamfiend84 No doubt
Beautifully said!
Actually it’s 1/384 not 1/128 when you turn off quantize on the original 3000 without the Vailixi mod, you can look it up in the manual. You can use many techniques to achieve the feel, in the end it’s only having the notes offset and not being on the grid. However what the 3000 excels at is being able to manipulate the offsets precisely in ticks, thus you learn how much it is and can use shift timing to your advantage.
People uses J Dilla name for clicks and views
🤝🏾
Fr ! 7
@@DisraeliGearshow?!
Truth
There’s a TikTok out there with some child saying that J Dilla wasn’t much of a rapper. Shame on them.
Lemme know if you want me to cover Kanye West sampling techniques next!
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Get it done Ave
Go ahead Ave. Bring back out the 2000XL.
Yes that’d be very dope I loved your video on the alchemist
Absolutely
Yeh why not. Everyone else has done one. Don’t break the habit of a lifetime. Continue ripping off other creators. SMH
Nobody will ever know how Dilla did his drums. We can only speculate and give a guesstimate
R.I.P. Dilla, Everyone should remember that the basis of hip hop is to be "fresh" not really clear why so many people wanna bite this mans style and think its ok. Come up with your own tricks, be original, thats hip hop
Amen to that. Nowadays everyone is copying everyone else.
That's like asking why guitarists emulate jimi, or why hoopers study Michael Jordan. They man mastered a style of beatmaking, and basically created a sub genre of hip-hop. Of course people are going to study him and implement his techniques
Your debunk is wrong. What the book actually says is that dilla swung some things and shifted other stuff around. Not necessarily the same thing being swung and shifted. So he may have swung the hats and shifted the snares...which the 3000 is more than capable of. He also didnt use that stupid "microchop" technique. Anyone with ears can hear that dillas chops were on the transients. SMH. stop spreading foolishness.
It's not the hard or software. It's the person behind the tools
Bruh, the tools you use play a huge factor! The skill set comes 2nd period!
if you ain't got the skills you wont be making any good music. And it doesn't matter what you use. I started in Madtracker and used almost everything after. I respect all the hard and software but the person behind it should know how to make proper beats and pick whatever works for them@@AveMcree
ok make a dope beat using just a spoon & nothing else since your so dope.. I'm using your logic@@dabeatkitchen
Hand in Hand
Word to note only mpc 3000 units fitted with Vailixi 3.5 chips and OS have the 1/128, 1/192 and 1/384 off timing features as extras features and the chips came out in the early 2000s I believe. The Roger Linn OG mpc 3000 only have 1/384 off timing. In the 90’s most the legends used the OG mpc 3000 with the original akai chips. There are many ways to get the feel and Marlow Diggs shows his way using both 2xl, mpc studio, x, live and etc. My two cents that mpc 3000 most overlooked innovation was step editor know called list editor which allows you to put your hits exactly where you want after you played it in regardless of timing correct is on or not.
So basically he is likely wrong about the 128 limitation?
yes@@tommyk88888
@@tommyk88888If you are asking about the mpc j Dilla started with it was an OG mpc 3k the same as I once had at 1/384 off quantization. Like we stated the Vaiilxi chip came out in 2007. So mpc 3000 was released in 1995 and I believe he start working with it from 1996 or 1997 maybe. No Vaiilxi chips existed at that time his work with Tribe, D’Angelo, Badu, SV, and Busta speak for themselves no 1/128 on the mpc 3000 at that time. But step edit has been there from the beginning.
Nice effort but you didn't exactly get the Dilla swing.I still think quantize was off for a lot.
i guess you have the VAILIXI 3.50 OS, as you can chose 1/128 when quant is off. I dunno if Dilla used the VAILIXI 3.50 OS on his early stuff. VAILIXI 3.50 OS came 2007
Dilla wasn't alive in 07, he died in 06.
@@donnydarko7624 exacly
You can snap to 1/128 in FL Studio by Quantizing to the 1/4 step grid since it's automatically on 1/16. Even then, I still think using anything that has quintuplet or septuplet quantization will get you close enough
i think FL Studio can change the PPQ to 96 to get even more close to the MPC-3000
It’s not the same fam. Fl studio ppq isn’t as tight as ableton. Matter of fact, even the new update is buggy. We tested on a live stream.
@@artisans8521 dilla used effects from sp 303 for shure
@@artisans8521He used the 303 for most of Donuts and The Beach Boys project he was working on near the end of his life. We all heard those stories, before he even passed, about his mom and friends bringing him records and equipment to the hospital so he could make beats when he was sick. He was using the 303 that Madlib put him onto in California at that point. This has been confirmed countless times by nearly everyone who was around him at the time (Egon, J Rocc, House Shoes, etc.)
The thing that people get wrong about that period is, a) he also used the 3000 for Donuts on some beats, b) he probably did the majority of the beats during the times he wasn’t in the hospital, and c) the Stones Throw engineers played a big part in the making of Donuts and had to do some heavy editing to make “songs” out of what Dilla did. From what I’ve heard over the years, some or most of the original beats used for Donuts were 20 -30 seconds long.
I also remember watching a video early on in RUclips (like 2007 or 2008), where Dilla was sitting with one of the engineers from Stones Throw on a computer, and they were working on Donuts. In the clip, he keeps telling the engineer to drag snares or kicks backward, or push them further ahead in the pro tools session. I think they even playfully argued at one point like, “that’s going to sound like shit!” … and Dilla said something like, “I know!”
That last part about the conversation is not exactly verbatim, but it was something to that effect. The bigger point is … Dilla used Pro Tools as an essential part of his beat making process from the time he put his studio set up together in Detroit,
so from the late 90’s-2000 and on.
As someone that was there actually watching him do it, this video, like most of the others... is wrong.
😂😂
Ok can you direct me to one where they got it right? Serious question.
@@Andre7414fax
What’s right then? I don’t understand what’s wrong with this one
Here's the thing about swing tho, it's not just a sampler terminology. It's a musical concept (as you know). So just because someone isn't using the swing function doesn't mean you aren't swinging like crazy! So to say Dilla didn't swing--ehhh I don't think I'd ever utter that sentence. But I get what you were saying from a producer's perspective. Thanks for breaking down these finer points on the 3000!
Did say he didn’t. I said 1/128 or higher will give you a natural bounce.
@@AveMcree talking about the part where you ask "did he swing?" @ 5:09 and you explain swing function isn't available if you're using the 1/128 method.
But you're right, you didn't directly answer the question.
I will tho---Dilla was swinging mane!! "Swing and bounce" are nearly the same thing, only older musicians tend to use the word "swing" (New Jack Swing, for instance), producers and younger cats use the word "bounce" (which Timbo popularized).
We're splitting hairs, but this is a split-the-hairs type o' video. Again, thanks for the breakdown, I learned something for sure.
Swing exists outside of the confines of the box right? Example being Jazz swing is there a correlation between the two?
@@creamfiend84 exactly. Swing in jazz is where you if you take two 8th notes---emphasize the first note and shorten the second. It still fits into a single beat, but the feel is different ("bouncy").
Boom Bap hip hop is built around this swing concept too. All the machine is doing when you turn up the "swing" is making that first eighth note longer, and the second one shorter.
No swing: "da da da da"
50% swing: "daa da daa da"
90% swing: "daaaa d daaaa d"
How bad nostalgia is.
Really, when people become obsessed with Dilla, wanting to prove that they know everything about him, that's when they become more ridiculous.
The truth is that the dead man took all his secrets to the grave, like M. Jackson, F. Mercury, James Brown, J-Live, Guru, MCA...
Making a fool of yourself every time they bring up Jay Dilla with new “how he did it” advice is not good.
They make fools of themselves and a kitten always dies.
It's challenging covering Dilla since he's not with us anymore, but guys like Showbiz and Diamond D are still here and would probably love to chop it up with you if you invited them on your channel - Even Kenny Dope who's extra stupid on an MPC...would love to see you get some perspective from dudes like that.
I'm definitely down for that because authenticity is my brand
💥👍🏾💯
Hold up.. you just proved my point about all these so-called youtube teachers by saying they have the main person technic, but really, it's just click bait
Dilla is the goat in my opinion, so much so that when I went by Dillinger in the electronic scene I changed my name the first time some kid shortened it to dilla.. there’s only one Dilla. However, I don’t think J Dilla put nearly as much effort into thinking this stuff out as the people trying to dissect it have just gotta do it feels good to you. I’m pretty sure that was his whole ethos.
Well, Bob Power, said he just simply didn't use the sequencer, he would play the mpc live. That is where the feel is coming from.
Very interesting, and Thanks for the clarification.. I definitely Respect the Brother J Dilla's contributions to HipHop and his indeed UNIQUE style and craftmanship... But All In All, I hope music producers of today are continuously focusing on their INDIVIDUAL personal styles...even if J Dilla has some influence in it... #Salute
They always confuse Dilla with Chill Hop
people do and say whatever these days.. Be like me and spit the facts.. Bless king
@@artisans8521 fake news
When will there be a video that corrects the miss information in this video?
Probably never because the information in this video is valid. Unlike the culture vultures you like watching. The people who taught me were around J dilla.
@@AveMcree im talking about the Vailixi OS
I will never believe that man was making beats whit out quantization on. His style of beat making is just genius. He had micro chopping on lock.
Wow, this video really completes the information given in the book "Dilla Time". It was the missing piece of the puzzle! This really shows that the MPC 3000 is worth the money for those who willing to dig deep! I am really glad that you mentioned Slynk's video. I learned a lot from it. With the modern MPCs, we have a Split Event feature that makes it possible to recreate Slynk's experiments with quintuplet and septuplet swing, and even do crazier time subdivisions.
No doubt! I deleted the modern MPC segment due to video timing but I'll release it later this week.
3:40 Ableton Live also has a groove pool with the same swing templates used by the MPC. At least they are named as such. I don't have a real MPC to a/b them against.
I use that chopping technique on my mpc 500. Didn't know it was called micro chopping.
I wonder if cats like Dilla ever used that word either. It seems like a buzz word for something that has been around for much longer than the term. First time I heard it was when Blue & Exile, Below The Heavens came out.
This thing was swing drives me crazy. People quantizing their drums and then using swing to move notes off the grid. How about just not quantizing your drums in the first place? If you actually just play your drums with human timing you'll get swing. It might take a bit more effort and a few takes sometimes but it's just way more natural.
Thanks for your tutelage about breaking down beats etc. I used to have the older MPC’s decades ago. I had purchased the MPC one + a while ago after I came home from the hospital 🏥 with a stroke. I’m working on making beats again and I’m figuring out a lot of things on the MPC one + and either going through the computer or just plain raw with the beats. You and I are probably the same age. I’ll be 54 on September 26. I’m not going to stop until I cannot do this anymore. Life is short, take every day and do you to your fullest ability. Keep up the good work and if I have any questions, I’ll definitely come to you for help. That stroke kind of made me feel a little bit lightheaded but it’s temporary. Probably too much medication 💊 and it’s side effects. God bless you abundantly my brother ❤
Big Mike hang on in there… you will be alright music is indeed a healer whether listening or in your case creating. Amen 🙏🏽
@@rodriquezbailey1832 true story straight up
the only jdilla tutorials that matter are from verysickbeats imo
Thanks for sharing, I knew there’s was more to uncover in regards to Dillla’s technique. It wasn’t just the technology, Dilla had an instinct in the feel of a song. He told stories by focusing on the emotion.
the manual says : " OFF(1/384): No timing correction-in this setting, the
highest resolution of the MPC3000 is used-96 divisions
per 1/4-note."
thats in VAILIXI 3.50 OS which came in '07.... lol i can tell u a casual fan
Yeah, & that came out in '07.... See the problem with that theory buddy?
thx @@uberbeats1727
no?@@AveMcree
So before ' 07 there was only 1/384 as quant off, as both my MPC-3000 and the Manual states. in '07 VAILIXI 3.50 OS added quant functions : "New timing correct/step size options: 1/128 and 1/192 timing correct OFF note value resolutions added.
1/4, 1/4TRPLT, 1/64, 1/64TRPLT timing correct note value resolutions added.
Swing is now available for 1/4, 1/4TRPLT, 1/8, 1/8TRPLT, 1/16, 1/16TRPLT, 1/32, 1/32TRPLT,1/64, 1/64TRPLT"
in the standard MPC-3000(LE) machine and manual:
"1/8 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/8-note
1/8 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/8-note
triplet
1/16 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/16-note
1/16 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/16-
note triplet
1/32 NOTE: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/32-note
1/32 TRPLT: All notes are moved to the nearest 1/32-
note triplet
OFF(1/384): No timing correction-in this setting, the
highest resolution of the MPC3000 is used-96 divisions
per 1/4-note."
@@uberbeats1727
The MPC 3000's MSRP was $3700 as far as what info I could find regarding it stated. Idk if the LE was more or not, but this is what the last 9 LE's sold for on reverb, which 5 of sold for below the MSRP of the original 3000. Higher end discontinued machines often end up increasing in value once the supply starts thinning out. Look at the elektron Machinedrum, or the DSI tempest's msrp was $1200 now good luck getting one for under $1600
Very brave of you to take this topic on. Great vid.
love the vid. we need more dilla!
In Ableton you can use groove pool to change the timing
True story
@@AveMcree yup 😁💪🏽🍾
this is legit probably the only accurate video ive ever seen on dilla's sound and technique
I wonder if someone tomorrow(future) would debunk this video and say they know how to get the Dilla feel
Dilla made most of Donuts on Pro Tools
............. slap yourself please
@@AveMcree😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dude he had an MPC on his deathbed
@@Dominant1mw no he didn't, did you read the book Dilla Time?
@@AveMcree Ave you are playing yourself again, be careful
Um… owning an MPC 3000 don’t make you an expert on Dilla. And please bro. Leave Navie and Digging The Greats well alone. If you want to bad enough, anyone can emulate Dilla’s timing with almost any fully-featured tool. By using primarily **drum roll please** their fuckin ears.
AVE!!!! Shoutout for using the Light as an exaple amazing tune!!! I Love Dilla and Common so much !
Watching your videos get better and better over the years has been great!! Keep it up
Dilla did his microchopping in daw in pro tools whole donuts was edited in daw...
cap
"show me how to tell someone they wrong, without saying they are wrong"... Watch this video & let someone who actually knows Dilla explained his "micro chopping" process ruclips.net/video/T-h1K34Y468/видео.htmlsi=95vmBWqsdxwsVKDA
@@AveMcree i was thinking about donuts album. I watched that questlove clip before. He said he used only 12 pads on his mpc thats barely "micro sampling" and if you listen to sample carefully he only took beginning when a guy speaks for a few seconds and edited him out and tok one micro chop of rhodes and than put some rap acapella samples over it. It looped smothly doe cant lie. Madlib and alc do same or more complex beats and people never praise them its just dilla thats god somehow. Donuts has tons of editing and was done in daw atleast what says in the book and it seems logical because for some beats you would need more than 4 banks 64 (mpc 3000) pads to do it. And people saying for 20 years it was made with sp 303 lol
@@jovantrendmaker4722 this makes more sense
You MgtheFuture,and CMG are doing real wonders for true knowledge for hip hop, rap. Thank You. Really.
Who is cmg?
It’s amazing how the “Dilla Time” book mystifies a swing rhythm that’s not 4/4 and not quite 12/8 either.
why every Ave Mcree video sounds false?
Great video, my man!! very much enjoyed this one
Glad to hear it!
People assuming and speculating on his technique has actually been a good thing for creativity purposes….there is a formula. Paul C knew it too…taught it to Large Pro. Dilla had multiple techniques and ways to make a beat. This is the difference. Most cats can only make a beat 1 or two ways. That said…however you do it…as long as the end result is dope…thats really all that matters.
Honestly I thought Dilla was dragging back the trim line on his kicks and snares on the MP3000, then throw the swing value up to about 60%... that's how I got the Dilla swing/feel when I did the drum tracks. All this time I was wrong LOL 😆😆😆😆😆
That actually works and it's just another way to do it
After the vox video dropped (which was an excellent video), everybody (a new generation )caught J Dilla fever. Then re-interpreted it.
Hence the silly mythological stuff.
Computers have to do a lot more editing to capture what the 3k does naturally. In one pass.
It’s not just the grid (shouts to Ave for this video. I learned something),
But it’s also that rigid solid PPQ (pulses per quarter note) that Roger implemented into the electronics.
It gives the 3k that stable dependable tightness that is so noticeable,even with a 1/128 setting.
Plus I always believed that velocity on the one, which controls the metronome feel, works under the rules of an electro mechanical system rather than the 1s and 0s of a multi purpose computer.
That’s why the loop of a 3k sounds so sweet.
It’s that circuitry.
Even with up tempo house type music the timing has this restraint that builds tension.
Micro Chopping can be done on any piece of equipment. You showed a method of auto/zone chopping that created 'micro' chops, but most of Dilla's chops came from sampling a new sound with each chop, involving backspinning the record over and over, sampling the next chop each time you played the record back. The method you showed only works if your sample is exactly 2 or 4 or 8 bars, it has to be a perfect loop to catch the chops at the right time.
This video has to be a joke
goat status for this!!! A true Master you are!!
fact: Dilla... well i actually don't fucking know. I just like Dilla. Thank you Ave as always
Im pretty sure you can do all this in FL
Deconstructing a beat via RipX is very cool. Nice video my friend 😎👍🏼
So if I get this right, Dilla tutorials are wrong because Timing Correct (TC)/Quantization on "off" on the MPC 3000 is actually TC on 1/128 and you can't use swing in that mode? And you can't replicate that sound on modern MPCs because they only go up to 1/64 TC? This makes me wonder to what resolution a modern MPC quantizes if you put TC on "off": 1/1024, 1/2048?
1/960 ppq
@@MrBlueHaze 960 ppqn is the maximum display resolution according to the MPC settings. How can we be sure this is also the quantization grid if you put Timing Correct in off mode?
@@Drrolfski every sequencer has a maximum ppq before they break down to smaller units mpc X, live and etc are 960ppq, Elektron is 384ppq and Logic Pro is 3840 maybe and it goes on and on. This are the off settings.
@@MrBlueHaze I understand but how do you know for sure this of the modern MPC series? Because their settings speak of Display Resolution, not quantize resolution. In theory, these could be two separate stats.
@@Drrolfski yes the display settings can be set to 1/96 ppq just for display the data which I use for editing via the list editor but the maximum ppq is still 960 ppq regardless. You can reconfirm with mpc tutor he will tell you the same thing or with Marlow Digs
Thanks!
thank you so much!
Shit i aint gon lie i know a few cats that have that sound down to a tee its just funny knowing its him or his soul in that style so its like hearing him in the afterlife. As if a message that his inspiration lives . So i can get how many artists go out of their way to try do something completely different to not get constant comparisons.
This is why I got the circuit rhythm rather than an mpc one.
Got my MPC 3000 back in 1996. Got the MPC One in 2019. IMO the MPC One is better, which is crazy because the 3000 costed me (my grandmother financed it) like $2900 back then. I used several DAW's from 2005-2019 and hated all of them, even though Fruity Loops was pretty dope when I used it in tandem with chopping my samples in Adobe Audition.
We called it volume chopping cause that's change the micro chopping as well.
Ave - one quest: when did you buy your 3k? And what's your most used model of all you have flying around?
I used the 3k for 10 years straight and always had a backup unit cause that's what you need if you love the 3k!
Very great video I wanted to add! Let the people know what's good
Hi
If your right that there is no note off but 1/128, it s best video that you did, for me.
Can you tell where this information Comes from, what is your source
There is nothing you can't do in FL Studios. A sequencer is a sequencer snap is snap
Except when it isn't. Clocking is everything.
Great video disecting different elements of production tools. Always interesting to see what different people use/used.
Either way, its great to learn how people achieve their sound. I agree the tools do matter to a certain degree, BUT you will sound like YOU no matter what brand/tool you use.
A technic we can use is to double up the tempo, and you can have a 1/256 resolution
My man earned that thumbs up. I’ve never seen the correct explanation using a 3000. I have the 2000xl and the One. Will some day add the 3K to my arsenal. Great vid!
digging the greats is how i ended up using my midi controller for the first time. i had it but never used it
This video is nearly as funny as watching Ave struggle to use the 3000 a few weeks ago. Now he thinks he’s an expert. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Dilla? More like Dulla.
What OS does your MPC-3000 have ?? My shows (1/384) when i have quant off
The Vailixi 3.50 ??
Even if you have ten MPC-3000s, it doesn’t matter. J Dilla was one of the greatest and could make bangers on any DAW with just a mouse. It’s nonsense to say that you can’t recreate J Dilla’s style without an MPC-3000. He could recreate it with just a mouse, in any DAW, even on a phone. I know you are sponsored and need to talk about how gear makes you better but be honest with yourself. The younger generation will be stuck in an infinite loop if they listen to your advice. Teach them to use what they have and how to improvise. That way, their creativity will be at its highest. The way you are now, it sounds like you don’t want them to be accomplished.
J Dilla was alive when every single DAW on the market was open but he chose the MPC 3000 to do all of his major Bangerz. So you can argue to the high having all of that childish bullshit but guess what. It’s all opinions coming from you 😆
Nope. Incorrect.
Does the 3000 have adsr ... ??
What type od OS you using in your 3000
Fully appreciated this on point video brotha, i feel like you busted some myths on this one...super informative content, Didnt sugar coat a thang! Respect!!👍🏽👍🏽
Great video and great beat
Thank you Ave! Can this info be transcribed to the Mpc 60?
Absolutely
you dont get 1/128 on a standard MPC-60, but might with a third party os like VIMANA 3.15
Let this person rest in peace. Stop using this man’s name, this man’s everything to cash in 💰💰
Smd
Can this be done in the same way with the new standalone mpcs or maschines?
Yes but you need to double the bpm (90 x 2 is 160bpm). Then set timing correct to 1/64 (64 x 2 is 128).
Let’s bust the most important myth: the truth is that most of Dilla’s best known beats were made on the Sp1200, not the MPC3000. “Runnin”: Sp1200. All the slum village stuff: Sp1200. And dilla turned the quantise off on the Sp1200, but even with the quantise off the 1200 still quantises to 1/64th note triplets, because the 1200 has a resolution of 24ppq. And 1/64th note triplets means 24 ppq. So…bang in a beat to any sequencer with the quantise set to 1/64th note triplets. Play slightly sloppy. Instant Dilla “swing”. If your sequencer only goes up to 1/32nd note triplets, double the tempo and play at half speed. Same result.
Myth busted.
(BTW: using the terms of this video, quantising to 1/64th note triplets would be 1/96. And as others have pointed out, the 3000 only had 1/384 when Dilla was using it. 1/384 doesn’t “swing”. But 1/96 “swings” like Dilla. Try it!)
“Let’s get more informative on this platform!”
How can I achieve this swing effect with the mpc one? Just want my drums to have a unique bounce
Everything’s for sale, including your soul
It should be worth noting that Samples from Mars offers Grooves from Mars which offers quantization templates of various Samplers/Drum machines, one of them being the MPC 3000…however this is an approximation. Also the Sonicware Lofi 12 offers what it calls “drunk drumming (or Dilla quantization) while very good in its own right, close…but no cigar.
Those samples chops are 🔥 ffr
thank you
Droppin that knowledge!
Hey Ave i was wondering if the MPC Renaissance works with the mpc 2.12 software, before i buy it. Im knew to mpc. I just bought the mpc studio 2, and i dont like the work flow of it, to much mouse using??
How
Man bro since I started watching your vids I've learned so much. My music sounds better and better each time. I appreciate you fam for real.
The Face Animation is Dope As Hell !!!🤣😂🤣
thanks
That outro beat at the end!!! 🔥🔥🔥
I truly appreciate the authenticity in this video!
meh.....click bait! Do a video on pause and record tapes before you explain anything on chopping on a mpc 3000. I would like to think Dilla studied records first before he manipulated them. He was a dj first. You didn't talk about doubling the tempo to get more notes into the sequence.... Say turning a 75 tempo into 150 but keeping the feel on a 75 tempo.... you have more room to play with any notes! Also the timing correct plays a big difference when it comes to drum programming...you can just swing or not swing certain drum sounds like hi hats to fall back on the sequence more or less. That chop lesson you gave was taught to you by another person...I can do better chops on my phone....the secret is....studying the record...the drum machine not so much but learn the capabilities of it on your own...you got a 2000xl right as well for 500?
the tape pause tech was Q-tips vibe not Dilla... Also, if you want that type of video... How about asking nicely.. New concept but more effective
Interesting info about the Circuit Rhythm. I don’t see many people using it. Do you prefer the SmplTrek or the Rhythm?
like both tbh... I paid for them
@@AveMcree Do you run your Circuit Rhythm in double time to get a higher resolution of micro-steps?
Do you know a great place to get my mpc3000 fixed at? Screen issues.
Mpcstuff.com
Yo ave how do y’all know how to get into the hidden ,or what seems, hidden parameters in the mpc?
He is using a third party OS on the MPC
I was able to do this on an MV8000 as well.
what quantize and swing should i do on mpc live 2 to achieve this kind of drum bounce?
That was omitted from the video but you have to do double time and set timing correct to 64. 64 x 2 is 128. However, it won’t be as tight.
Why not set it to 64 and lower the strength percentage?
This is the best video I have seen explaining that style and how to get it.
i think it was the man not the machine liked the video though especially the mico chops
So would you be able to apply the timings information into the newer mpc ??
Yes, absolutely
I would like to learn how !
Yes of course you can dude