It's really nice to see someone discussing this stuff in a sane, evenhanded, nuanced way. Musicians and their gear are so subject to superstition and folk wisdom that a lot of people waste a lot of time and money trying to find a sound. This kind of talk helps everybody. I don't usually make more that one comment on a vid, but this was nice and dense, and doesn't condescend to anyone. 👍
As a Roadhouse bar player for 30 years it’s simple. In an older crowd place that dances and leaves their mobile home when they spill a beer on my old hand wired Marshall it dries out cleans up and lives to fight another day. PCP solid state kemper axe fx are like VCRs and are land fill after a dancing beer.
Good information. The 1st amp was a 1971 Sears-no idea of the specifics. I finally got a beat-up old Vox AC-30 from Strings and Things in Memphis, TN, in 1975. And(like you) I got a Fender Bassman 100 with the 4-10 cab in 1977 for a pittance from a guy who needed cash for his drug habit. That was THE best sounding amp on either guitar or bass I've ever heard. I sold it in 1982 to pay my medical school tuition, so I guess I got a good deal! And, I agree with you re: hand-wired. PCB amps are less likely to have errors or flaws, because of the human factor. It's analogous to surgery, (I'm now a cancer surgeon in addition to being a semi-pro guitarist) in that when you remove a piece of intestine, and bring the 2 ends back together, the outcomes are truly BETTER when you use an automatic stapling device, rather than hand-sewing, for the same reason. It takes the human factor out of the equation. Surgeons (and amp techs and all other humans) get tired. The more complex the situation is, the more hand-eye fatigue occurs, and the more likely you are to make errors.
Quickly becoming one of my favourite guitar channels on RUclips fellas, some of the best content out there. Love how you respond to every comment too Jonathan!
Thanks a ton! Jonathan is one solid guy and we have way too much fun doing this. Sincerely thrilled that you like the channel and have a super start to your day out there!
I bought my first and only tube amp (Fender Blues Jr) new in 2006. Still running it to this day, only had to replace the reverb tank recently. What a great little amp!
I would guess that the primary reason (other than placebo effect) that hand-wired amps often sound better is because when you spend the kind of time in construction that hand wiring requires, the overall attention to detail is better. Also, since hand-wired amps are more expensive, they are likely more likely to have premium speakers, solid wood cabinets, and high quality components than the average pcb amp.
Johnathan, thank you for the information. I’m in the market for a new amp and everyone tells me that I should get a tube amp. This was a helpful tutorial
I’m just getting my first hand wired amp this Saturday as it goes!…it’s a Cornell they are a UK boutique amp maker,I think they are fairly small and you might not of heard of them in the states!(I’m from the uk)…it’s got a built in attenuator that goes down to a quarter watt so I can get all that tube goodness at home or even 1watt!,tweed covering and leather handle!…also comes with quality tubes,but I can’t remember what they are!!…anyway good timing on the video,to explain what I’m buying in to!!
I've got the Cornell Plexi 18/20 head, his version of the Marshall PA-20, it's a gorgeous sounding amp, dead quiet, rock solid and plays nice with pedals. Denis is a master.
The BC ammo can amp has some of the most beautiful point-to-point wiring I’ve ever seen! It rivals and IMHO is cleaner than an original Hi-Watt. Small, portable and ssounds great!
So, my Carr Rambler that I've owned for a decade is point-to-point? Sweeeeeeet. Didn't know that, only that it sounds stellar! Thanks for the lesson and insights!
Good Day and Thank You. Wonderfully done and for a change, straight to the point/points. Jonathan you do very well on your own, also. Airplanes and Rockets and Satellites do just fine with PCB's. They are reliable, strong, resist much more vibration and temperature changes than any amp will likely ever see. I agree that Quality components and Workmanship make the biggest difference in the ultimate outcome of any important product. Thanks again for this wonderful and educational presentation. P.S. However, with Amps though, old ones really are delightful...
Great points. You can't beat hand-wired in the sense that it gives you an amp that you can keep repairing till as long as the electronics components can still be purchased. You also can't beat it for making improvements. I have a 1966 AB165 Bassman that I will never sell, which I've done a conversion of the head to a fixed bias hybrid AB165/AA864, and among a few other things, altered the muddy bass channel tone stack to something more along the lines of a Plexi. Sounds absolutely fantastic with these non-destructive mods. If this old amp wasn't designed to be hand-wired via eyelets on vulcanized fiberboard, I doubt I would have been able to do any of this. It really does make any work incredibly easy.
Thanks for educating me, Jonathan. I’m 69 years old and I’ve been playing guitar since I was 16. I was always curious why old Fender amps and new Fender amps sound different.
I spent so much time deliberating between two amps - one point to point (Matchless HC 30) and another which uses pcb(Victory VC35 Deluxe). I ended up choosing the amp that had all the features I wanted for a pricepoint that still made sense, the Victory. This lockdown has given me a lot of time to research and all those buzzwords definitely had me spinning. At the end of the day, I don't regret my purchase - with the matching 2X12 cab with alinico gold's, I can honestly say I've never played a better amp. I have no doubt better amps exist, but for me, the feeling playing through it and it having the features I wanted without ballooning the price of an already expensive boutique amp mattered a great deal more than how it was put together.
I have a Matchless and the only thing I regret is this sucker is loud! Arguably louder than my 100 watt marshall. No kidding. I think you made the right choice given the quarantine
My first amps were 58/59 BASSMANS. Great! I have been designing PCBs since 1967. If someone challenged me to a design shoot-out, I could design a PCB with "thru-hole components" that would sound as good as any of the types you have talked about. The biggest difference in sound is caused by the tolerances of the components. Most of what you say is on target. BTW, check out ROLLS Corp. The owner makes mostly PCB platform audio products with thru-hole components. The best of all - no hype with lower cost.
Jonathan- I own all 3 types, love them all differently. 1) Hand wired vintage: fantastic and inspiring tone and performance, best if only used on the road in a limited way. 2) Point 2 Point- amazing and unique rich tones, for use only in studio or anywhere stationary. 3) PCB- take out on the road or gig around town till your heart's content.
I have two conversions done by Jeff Falla in Minneapolis. A DRRI and PRRI. The used price with the conversion was about the same as buying new. Much less than most boutique amps. I'm very happy with both and even if the difference is all in my head, I'm cool with that.
A very good walk through. Handwired amps sounds better, and why is that? There are at least 3 reasons: 1. The component quality is much lower in PCB amps, look at those flimsy caps. Caps is a big part of the sound in a guitar amp. 2. Space between the components is critical. 3. All smaller PCB amps - the Fender lines, the Marshall lower cost lines ... sneak in op-amps here and there, that you can´t bypass. Also many connections are made with crappy flat cables. But no doubt it would be possible to make PCB amps as good sounding as the older ones.
Hot Rod Deville 4x10 was my first tube amp as well! started playing at 15 with a behringer solid state old thing, got the deville at 16 or so! Boy do i miss it
Although the PCB tube stuff is great and reliable, I stand by handwired amps. I Used a 65 deluxe reverb for a long time, got my hands on a EC twinolux. Beautifully handwired and I definitely could tell the difference in my tone and attack. Going from solid state to tube is a big jump, and more than enough for the average person, but it’s not the definitive tier. Boutique/custom shop amps are great both with the cabinet quality and hand wired construction.
Very reasoned and reasonable discussion. I doubt my battered old ears are up to hearing any difference now, I use a PCB valve amp and it sounds fine! I do like watching Uncle Doug's RUclips channel though. There's something magical about seeing and hearing a 40's or 50's amp brought back to life.
Awesome video! Currently I have a Dr Z Maz 18 Jr NR 112 combo and a Fender '68 Princeton Custom. Love them both, they each sound great alone and sound amazing when run together.
Theres a Rhett Shull video comparing the two constructions of the same amp and the HW definitely has that extra something the PCB doesnt. Plus HW can actually be repaired.
Great point about the repair and extra special something! Thanks a ton for sharing your thoughts there and we’ll be sure to check out Rhetts video as well!
If I’m thinking of the same video, at the end he swaps the speaker in the pcb amp (I think it was a Princeton reissue) and the sound was much closer after the speaker swap.
the PCB design in Mesa Boogies has become the bane of amp repair guys everywhere...incredible amps, but apparently a nightmare to work on...being able to quickly repair an amp is a huge consideration...
Wow I didn't know you guys were in Southern Pines. Next time I visit Fayetteville I will stop. I think you hit the nail on the head. Hand wired is easier to maintain and have more choice of 'quality' components. PCB is affordable and harder to maintain because copper traces and parts to solder become significantly smaller. Point to point is nuts.
There was a dude named Brian Cox who build amp kits in his garage. He specialized in clones of Fender Tweed Deluxe with upgradable components including Mercury transformers. He dressed the wires perfectly. I got a Deluxe, a Champ and a low powered Twin (sold it for more than I bought it for). Unfortunately, Brian Cox passed away in 2013. Still got the Champ and Deluxe.
AND ... I found the amp discussion! I trend towards the hand wired turret or eyelet board BUT ... the point to point is just wire spaghetti to me. I will mention that Josh (JHS) and Brian (Wampler) have turned me into a surface mount board for pedals WAAAAAAAY less noise!
Would you consider it a sort of boutique version of an AC30? I saw Brad Paisley during the Time Well Wasted tour and after the show I walked behind the stage and looked at his rig and literally sitting back there was an AC30 with a mic in front of it but on stage it was all Z's. Brad even mentioned his love for AC30's in his Joe Bonamassa interview from a few weeks ago. I just figure Matchless and Dr. Z amps are heavily inspired by the AC30. Dr. Z's are for sure awesome though.
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 yeah I think Z has made a few AC 30 inspired amps. I know the Trainwreck Rocket was, and Ken Fisher designed the circuit for this amp.
Hand wired involves more wire. Wire creates capacitance which might roll some highs off. PCB boards conduct better than wire,less possibility of losing tone. That might explain some of the tone differences between the two.
Good video, interesting topic for sure. Point to point, hand wired, or PCB all make for basically good amps as long as high quality components and soldering processes are used. From a PCB standpoint you should look for a though hole board. Surface mount components are generally harder to troubleshoot and replace if you do have a problem. Transformers, wire routing and EMI shielding are underrepresented amplifier topics. After performing some modifications to my old Blues Junior I realized how important wire routing is to minimizing amp hum. Next I am planning on replacing the transformers with new units distributed gap cores and upgrading the speaker. I future video on these topic could be interesting...?
Mark Bartell is the guy you're looking for on this subject. The founder/designer of Tone King amps who's now building The finest hand wired amps I've ever seen under Bartell amps. I own a "hybrid" Hand built/PCB Falcon Grande and a Hand wired Imperial. It would be impossible to find something negative about the hybrid, yet I still lust after owning a hand wired Bartell amplifier. P.S. there has always been something uniquely superb about Carr amplifiers and god help me if I just found out why?
All right, i need some advice... I found a Reissue Bassman 4x10 and i played it with a Coil-Split Schecter Synyster Gates and a Squire Strat (Old good guitar!) in 4th pickup positon (John Mayer setting)... And i have NEVER been so moved by a sound before that i was able to produce. I have so far only owned digital modeling gear and right now my rig is a L6 Helix Floorboard... So... I LOVED the Bassman sound. It was everything i would need for that single coil pickup sound. But i heard that it was PCB and im feeling this irrational feeling of "upcoming regret" if i choose to buy it. It shouldnt matter if its PCB, it sounds fantastic to me and i wanna own that sound. But why does that PCB information make me feel insecure about buying it? To a guy who have never owned a Tube amp, is there anything i should be aware of by owning a Tube amp and specifically a PCB one? (I know they are DANGEROUS to hande and can kill you if you are an idiot. Let the pro's handle them!) Kindest regards! Marco Winther from Denmark
Obviously, it’s been a few months since your comment, but I’ve owned a Fender Bassman Reissue for 6-7 years and it is a fantastic amp. If you did already buy it I would highly recommend not passing it up. Amps are my gear obsession so I own several. Some are hand wired and others are PCB, but all of them great. There is definitely an advantage to hand wired in regards to easier serviceability, but if you know a good amp tech you can always have a PCB amp converted to hand wired. If the Bassman you were looking at is used it would probably be cheaper to it and have it hand wired than to buy a hand wired Bassman clone. I’ve thought about having mine required, but as I said it is an excellent amp (often considered to be Fender’s best PCB amp) and there are too many other amps that I would like to own to spend money upgrading wrong that I already like anyway.
I had to rethink and rewrite this. I think what people miss about PCB is that its just the same circuit layouts as any handwired amp or p2p amp. Its just on a PCB. The components are surface mounted to them, which means you can replace a resistor the same as your handwired or p2p amps. Its also the year 2020 and were pretty good damn good at making quality PCBs. The wires in your boutique amps are made of copper the same as what is in PCBs. I bet in a blind test with a vintage amp, a modern p2p amp, a modern handwired amp and a modern pcb amp and lets say you throw in a kemper with pro designed profiles, 99/100 people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. But when you go to pay for them you certainly will tell the difference. If your proclivity and wallets can support those expensive amps then by all means, spend your money however you wish. But at the end of the day the tone comes from you and your fingers, nothing else matters.
As an EE, I can back this opinion wholeheartedly. The difference of two brand new ones is negligible. Now if a component breaks, you likely will have a harder problem with the PCB. But that’s the chance you take for not paying those higher labor costs of the hand wired.
PCB are weak and each time you work on them you stress the board. If you have two repairs and damage the board beyond repair your 800 dollar amp is now a giant paper weight. While the tone debate is subjective the reliability of P2P is not. A tech can quickly and easily repair P2P vs the PCB.
I’m an odd bird, my first tube amp was an old Fender Bassman 4x10. It weighed about a metric ton and I used to lug it all over to gigs around the Midwest for years. I actually don’t exactly remember what happened to that thing. I have a feeling, if I remember correctly, that my “brother” wanted it more than I did when I moved and he scalped it. No regrets other than harm done.
built my owm fender 5e3 from scratch. its my first tube (valve) amp and i love the sound. you are right about fixing things. if it breaks i can easily swap out components especially as i know how it was put together and i have a full wiring diagram. i had a HH bass amp that broke and it has some module pcb part that i think is broke but no way to fix that so it sits in my broken stuff pile. does hand wired make me a better player? nah, well maybe i appreciate it more so try to push myself.
Also: why does the Fender 64 hand wired sound different? The speaker. They put a better speaker in them. Rhett Shuhl has a video where they play a 64 and 65 reissue beside each other. And then they play the 65 through the speaker in the 64 and they sound almost identical.
I hope somebody knows enough to answer. It's my understanding that capacitors go bad after a few years sometimes, perhaps the most common repair for a tech. So if I'm looking at 10 year old HW or PCB what should I be thinking about the likely bother and cost to replace some caps and maybe something else? I'm just saying a bargain for a used amp can be like that 3rd owner of the Benz $$. I'm thinking it's likely better to buy new rather than trying to save a couple hundred bucks. The amp is new only once.
Bogner and soldano has proved you can make a great pcb amp. If you just want 1 channel, no fx loop and no options, hand wired is ok, then there's the slo and ecstasy with the mulichannels and loops and switches and they sound great. Reliability? For the longest time soldano offered a lifetime transferable warranty on their slo and x88preamp. Did fender offer that with their "tweeds "? A good amp is a good amp.
Mesa Boogie has used PCB from day one, even the MKI made famous by Santana was a PCB amp. And I can attest to them being tough as nail, having thrown my dc5 at crowds, down stairs, through drummers/drum sets (mostly the drummer) Its only had capacitors replaced, and a few broken tubes. (and the speaker cause it got damaged lol) Have a Sovtek Mig50 that is just as tough too, and I would say its more of a hybrid, it does have a pcb board, but everything is hand wired that connect to it, pots, tubes, transformers etc, and it was either in front of the dc5 or following on more or less the same paths of destruction. Currently running a dreaded red knob fender super 210, one of fenders early abortions of a PCB amp, and while I have calmed down some it still gets gigged and I'm not exactly gentle on them, so far its holding its own next to the same road weary dc5 (the Sovtek is semi retired as I no longer feel like dragging half stacks everywhere I go)
PCB amps are cheaper and if you like the tone I don't see any argument against having one. HOWEVER - longterm they can work out more expensive because the more complex ones can be labour intensive to repair. I build and restore tube amps - there are very few PCB ones I'd bother fixing.
I think the impedances of the amp and the pedals you are using is more a more important question to ask. Now that being said, tube amps usually take pedals well especially if the pedals are analog circuits. A lot of pedals are digital and emulate the old analog circuits. So that is often times a trial and error adventure.
Someone here on RUclips A/Bd a Fender production amp with a pcb vs a hand wired Custom Shop version of the otherwise same model. The pcb version sounded great while the hand wired version sounded amazing. Neither sounded bad in any way. Different, yes, but both had great tone.
Yes I hear a difference between the reissue amps and The Originals there's definitely better tone coming from the original. But when you're playing live in a band mix do you really even noticed that little bit of a difference?
Know of any Point-to-Point amps where the circuit is on display? Like a nice mechanical wristwatch that has an open case back with a transparent window into the movement? I always found it odd to have this beautiful piece of work covered up so you cannot see it. I own 3 mechanical watches and all of them have transparent backs so I can admire the movements. I'd feel the same way about a tube amp. I wanna see the tubes, and if it's hand wired or point to point I'd wanna see that too without needing a screwdriver.
The Helios is beautiful inside. I had the same thought. The VHT was PCB. both sound like leviathans of guitar tone. It is good to have either but the alignment of those components give you the finality of tone you're looking for.
I have a Blues Junior 1 PCB amp that was always a horrible amp. It would change volume and tone on its own; pop and snap when I touched the controls. Shopping for parts, I found a kit with all the small parts, pots, ceramic tube sockets and a turret board and hand wired the whole thing and had a blast doing it. Now I have a really solid, great sounding amp. The original PCB went into the trash. I have a Marshall DSL20 that is a PCB. It doesn't travel much but at the first sign of a problem it will be transformed into a hand-wired vintage. So I guess I'm sold on hand wired because as an engineer, I think high voltage DC has no place on a PCB.
The only reason i have invested some what more money to get a handwire amp is because off the fact that these are easy to maintain , so when my amp breaks down , i know that any good amp tech can fix it without too much labourcost . Fixing things on a pcb board is way more tricky ( i have heard this said by many amp tech ) . Soundwise i think the difference between a good pcb amp or an handwired amp isn't that big to justify the ( sometimes huge ) extra cost for an handwired amp .
@@guitarjonathan can i ask you wich magnatone you have ? I am having gas for the twilighter , luckaly it's so expensive ( 3000 euro's ) that i'm not even tempted to buy one :) , i'll stick with my dutch handmade amp ( marble ltd = upgraded 5E3 clone ) . Must admit that those magnatones seem wicked to me .
@@antoonhermans8953 I actually have the Twilighter. When we started carrying them I was hooked pretty immediately. 😂 Sold a guitar to buy one and haven't regretted it.
I have 1964 blonde bassman 6g6b all point wired and I wouldn't ever sell it.. easy to fix and work on main reason why tech loves working on it. (Point to point can be hazardous if not done right! Or comes loose.) Make sure caps are discharged before ever working on amp!
I played a Matchless in the late 90s. Great sounding amp. Recorded well but was not the best road amp. On stage it sounded great & never broke down but the Clubman got ripped off after a gig in Utah. 😔
I think I prefer PCB amps for one thing: consistency of sound. You know if you have a Blues Junior, it's going to sound like a blues junior. You don't have to go looking for a similar sound, just the same amp.
Well said brother PCB is good if done right and on certain components like you said My favorite is PTP and HW I love the magic and mojo AND the discrepancies that make certain ones SO good Fortunately for me I have several that I got years ago before the prices went way up I should have bought a Trainwreck when they were 850 LoL 😂
Great subject. Honestly, I'm more concerned about quality components than how it's put together. That pcb is the same no matter what. The computer and machines doing the work don't come in with hangovers and personal problems.
Love my Peavey Classic 50, it's cheap and sounds good, with tube breakup. However, if the caps go bad my amp guy is going to charge me a fortune to fix it... PCB boards and super-tight packaging make it less repair friendly... but I picked up a 50-watt tube amp for $350... can't beat that. Next thing I plan to do is buy a kit from Mojo tone and either put it together myself or my amp guy offers a class where you can do it with him... that should be killer, build a 5E3 amp, and learn all about the guts.
Vintage Sano amps made just down the road from Ampeg in NJ in the 60/70's Hand-Wired lower wattage amps by an all or mostly female workforce. I love'm.
Same with Marshalls... women are thought of to have more dexterity, and more importantly PATIENCE in soldering and wiring components. I learned that from the late Ken Fischer of Trainwreck Amplifiers (he worked at Ampeg for years) over 30 years ago.
i’ve seen amazing hand wiring at my job. i’ve done amazing pcb design at my job. there’s a million differences - parasitics, coupling, impedance and signal propagation...the only thing i can say is that a pcb would be more consistent. i hope i don’t venture down boutique amps. says the guy who swears there’s tonal differences between different rosewoods :)
Hand wired tube amps are better than PCB. Point to Point amps are better than hand wired. These two statements are true. The confusion comes in that although they are better, when a player hears that they are better they immediately assume they "sound" better. The sound difference between them shouldn't be much different. The fact is that a PCB amp can find itself in an unrepairable state, where as a hand-wired amp is less likely to find itself unrepairable, and a Point to Point amp can almost never become damaged in a way that it cannot be repaired.
I have a Carr Rambler. Point to point construction. It really is an amazing amp. I also have a Hammond AO-44 and AO-35. These are great affordable hand wired options. I play hand wired because I live in a rural community and the techs in my area can work on hand wired amps and not PCB. At least that’s what I’m told.
PTP are great but you really do have to handle those amps different. A bit more gentle. I would say it’s the purest signal flow but not sure if it’s worth THAT much more attention and money. For me, NO but I can’t really argue with someone who thinks it is. It’s all up to the individual. I am talking about NEW amps.
Once again the only point touched on for PCB amps is their Cost savings for the manufacturer and the end buyer. WHAT ABOUT THE TONE!??? If I were to attempt to build a 2 JCM 800's, Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier's, Fender Deluxe Reverb's, etc 1 the traditional hand wired way and 1 on PCB would the PCB element have a direct measurable effect on the tone and feel of the amp overall? and if not why not Ditch the pretentious "Boutique" status of otherwise INEFFICENTINFERIOR EQUIPMENT WITH A BIGGER PRICE TAG!
Alex Woolridge - for gigging, my solid state goes in the car. It’s close enough and no ever asked why I don’t use a tube amp. At home, use my tube amp. It warms up my practice room nicely. 😊
@@daveduffy2823 that's good. I actually use an orange micro dark at gigs. It does a fantastic job but I'll never not love my all tube handwired amps though. Fun to build and modify too
It seems a bit weird to use a $100 high quality, heavy gauge instrument cable with all this shielding only to have your tone pass through a trace on a PCB. I see no distinction between hand-wired and point-to-point as far as quality / tone would be concerned. Your tone doesn't care if there is a board holding the components in place. Your tone might care if it's going through a wire vs. a pcb trace. ... with that being said, if you can't tell, you can't tell. Double blind study of same exact circuit is only way to see if people can hear a difference. My amp is a modeling amp so my tone is going from analog to digital back to analog again... but I'm just a beginner. I don't know what my first tube amp will be, but I'd lean more towards either handwound and point to point.
For a classic fender hand wired amp, changing a component is as easy as removing the chassis and get your iron out. PCBs generally require removing the whole circuit board which can be time consuming. Then you have to be careful desoldering to not damage the board. For me, I choose a SF amp and make a few bf mods and you good for years, price about same as a new PCb amp.
I can rely on this lad for some no nonsense, honest and informaitive thoughts. Thanks Jonathan!
It's really nice to see someone discussing this stuff in a sane, evenhanded, nuanced way. Musicians and their gear are so subject to superstition and folk wisdom that a lot of people waste a lot of time and money trying to find a sound. This kind of talk helps everybody. I don't usually make more that one comment on a vid, but this was nice and dense, and doesn't condescend to anyone. 👍
Thank you so much! That's exactly what I was aiming for and wasn't sure if I hit the mark so that means a ton. Thanks for watching!!
As a Roadhouse bar player for 30 years it’s simple. In an older crowd place that dances and leaves their mobile home when they spill a beer on my old hand wired Marshall it dries out cleans up and lives to fight another day. PCP solid state kemper axe fx are like VCRs and are land fill after a dancing beer.
Great point.
Good information. The 1st amp was a 1971 Sears-no idea of the specifics. I finally got a beat-up old Vox AC-30 from Strings and Things in Memphis, TN, in 1975. And(like you) I got a Fender Bassman 100 with the 4-10 cab in 1977 for a pittance from a guy who needed cash for his drug habit. That was THE best sounding amp on either guitar or bass I've ever heard. I sold it in 1982 to pay my medical school tuition, so I guess I got a good deal! And, I agree with you re: hand-wired. PCB amps are less likely to have errors or flaws, because of the human factor. It's analogous to surgery, (I'm now a cancer surgeon in addition to being a semi-pro guitarist) in that when you remove a piece of intestine, and bring the 2 ends back together, the outcomes are truly BETTER when you use an automatic stapling device, rather than hand-sewing, for the same reason. It takes the human factor out of the equation. Surgeons (and amp techs and all other humans) get tired. The more complex the situation is, the more hand-eye fatigue occurs, and the more likely you are to make errors.
Quickly becoming one of my favourite guitar channels on RUclips fellas, some of the best content out there. Love how you respond to every comment too Jonathan!
Thanks a ton! Jonathan is one solid guy and we have way too much fun doing this. Sincerely thrilled that you like the channel and have a super start to your day out there!
Thanks, George!! I try. 🙂
I love hand wired for the reliability and ease of repair for sure. Great video!
Love this guy's passion and articulacy
Thanks, Gary!!
I bought my first and only tube amp (Fender Blues Jr) new in 2006. Still running it to this day, only had to replace the reverb tank recently. What a great little amp!
I would guess that the primary reason (other than placebo effect) that hand-wired amps often sound better is because when you spend the kind of time in construction that hand wiring requires, the overall attention to detail is better. Also, since hand-wired amps are more expensive, they are likely more likely to have premium speakers, solid wood cabinets, and high quality components than the average pcb amp.
As a Brit, I’d like to thank Jonathan for pronouncing the ‘l’ in solder
Fantastic video and a tremendous job breaking down the differences between the different types of amps, cheers!
Thanks!!
Johnathan, thank you for the information. I’m in the market for a new amp and everyone tells me that I should get a tube amp. This was a helpful tutorial
The point to point vs. handwired detail was great info. Thanks for opening the discussion.
I’m just getting my first hand wired amp this Saturday as it goes!…it’s a Cornell they are a UK boutique amp maker,I think they are fairly small and you might not of heard of them in the states!(I’m from the uk)…it’s got a built in attenuator that goes down to a quarter watt so I can get all that tube goodness at home or even 1watt!,tweed covering and leather handle!…also comes with quality tubes,but I can’t remember what they are!!…anyway good timing on the video,to explain what I’m buying in to!!
Sounds awesome, congrats!! Maybe come back with an update after you play it for awhile.
I've got the Cornell Plexi 18/20 head, his version of the Marshall PA-20, it's a gorgeous sounding amp, dead quiet, rock solid and plays nice with pedals. Denis is a master.
Never seen one in person but have heard good things! Congratulations, hope you love it. 😊
At last. Someone who understands.. thankyou from the UK and be sure I'll pass this video on to my pcb obsessed friends!
😂 We're here for you. Thanks for watching!
The BC ammo can amp has some of the most beautiful point-to-point wiring I’ve ever seen! It rivals and IMHO is cleaner than an original Hi-Watt. Small, portable and ssounds great!
Very cool, will have to check these out. Thanks!
So, my Carr Rambler that I've owned for a decade is point-to-point? Sweeeeeeet. Didn't know that, only that it sounds stellar! Thanks for the lesson and insights!
Thanks for watching!
Good Day and Thank You. Wonderfully done and for a change, straight to the point/points. Jonathan you do very well on your own, also. Airplanes and Rockets and Satellites do just fine with PCB's. They are reliable, strong, resist much more vibration and temperature changes than any amp will likely ever see. I agree that Quality components and Workmanship make the biggest difference in the ultimate outcome of any important product. Thanks again for this wonderful and educational presentation. P.S. However, with Amps though, old ones really are delightful...
Great points. You can't beat hand-wired in the sense that it gives you an amp that you can keep repairing till as long as the electronics components can still be purchased. You also can't beat it for making improvements. I have a 1966 AB165 Bassman that I will never sell, which I've done a conversion of the head to a fixed bias hybrid AB165/AA864, and among a few other things, altered the muddy bass channel tone stack to something more along the lines of a Plexi. Sounds absolutely fantastic with these non-destructive mods. If this old amp wasn't designed to be hand-wired via eyelets on vulcanized fiberboard, I doubt I would have been able to do any of this. It really does make any work incredibly easy.
Thanks for educating me, Jonathan. I’m 69 years old and I’ve been playing guitar since I was 16. I was always curious why old Fender amps and new Fender amps sound different.
I spent so much time deliberating between two amps - one point to point (Matchless HC 30) and another which uses pcb(Victory VC35 Deluxe). I ended up choosing the amp that had all the features I wanted for a pricepoint that still made sense, the Victory. This lockdown has given me a lot of time to research and all those buzzwords definitely had me spinning. At the end of the day, I don't regret my purchase - with the matching 2X12 cab with alinico gold's, I can honestly say I've never played a better amp. I have no doubt better amps exist, but for me, the feeling playing through it and it having the features I wanted without ballooning the price of an already expensive boutique amp mattered a great deal more than how it was put together.
I have a Matchless and the only thing I regret is this sucker is loud! Arguably louder than my 100 watt marshall. No kidding. I think you made the right choice given the quarantine
@@analognoir7398 thanks! I told my wife they can bury me with this amp lol
I think you made a good choice as well. Biggest thing is that you love your amp and it sounds like you do. Thanks for watching!!
I ate my dinner with this video today... The food was crap but this video made it better! Great content :)
Lol! Thanks!
Thank you for saying solder correctly.
My first amps were 58/59 BASSMANS. Great! I have been designing PCBs since 1967. If someone challenged me to a design shoot-out,
I could design a PCB with "thru-hole components" that would sound as good as any of the types you have talked about. The biggest difference in sound is caused by the tolerances of the components. Most of what you say is on target. BTW, check out ROLLS Corp. The owner makes mostly
PCB platform audio products with thru-hole components. The best of all - no hype with lower cost.
Cool, I'll check em out. Thanks!
Jonathan- I own all 3 types, love them all differently. 1) Hand wired vintage: fantastic and inspiring tone and performance, best if only used on the road in a limited way. 2) Point 2 Point- amazing and unique rich tones, for use only in studio or anywhere stationary. 3) PCB- take out on the road or gig around town till your heart's content.
I have an early 80s HI-MU, built to order. All point-to-point, handwired. This amp has been part of my life. It's done everything I asked.
Thanks! Informative. Old amps often have old speaker cones.....
I've had everything, but point to point and I have to say I really think it comes down to the quality of the design and components.
I think that's probably the case. Thanks for watching!
I have two conversions done by Jeff Falla in Minneapolis. A DRRI and PRRI. The used price with the conversion was about the same as buying new. Much less than most boutique amps. I'm very happy with both and even if the difference is all in my head, I'm cool with that.
Very cool.
I love these videos! Perfect for watching on my lunch break! Keep up the awesome vids!
Thanks!!!
A very good walk through. Handwired amps sounds better, and why is that? There are at least 3 reasons: 1. The component quality is much lower in PCB amps, look at those flimsy
caps. Caps is a big part of the sound in a guitar amp. 2. Space between the components is critical. 3. All smaller PCB amps - the Fender lines, the Marshall lower cost lines ... sneak
in op-amps here and there, that you can´t bypass. Also many connections are made with crappy flat cables. But no doubt it would be possible to make PCB amps as good sounding
as the older ones.
Hot Rod Deville 4x10 was my first tube amp as well! started playing at 15 with a behringer solid state old thing, got the deville at 16 or so! Boy do i miss it
Although the PCB tube stuff is great and reliable, I stand by handwired amps. I Used a 65 deluxe reverb for a long time, got my hands on a EC twinolux. Beautifully handwired and I definitely could tell the difference in my tone and attack. Going from solid state to tube is a big jump, and more than enough for the average person, but it’s not the definitive tier. Boutique/custom shop amps are great both with the cabinet quality and hand wired construction.
I think you're on to something. Definitely a special thing when I plug into my Magnatone. Thanks for watching!
Very reasoned and reasonable discussion. I doubt my battered old ears are up to hearing any difference now, I use a PCB valve amp and it sounds fine! I do like watching Uncle Doug's RUclips channel though. There's something magical about seeing and hearing a 40's or 50's amp brought back to life.
Love the casino guitars RUclips channel! Keep up the quality content Jon and Baxter!!
Thanks, Zane!!!
Awesome video! Currently I have a Dr Z Maz 18 Jr NR 112 combo and a Fender '68 Princeton Custom. Love them both, they each sound great alone and sound amazing when run together.
Love that light behind you
Excellent...I guess the type of warranty would be important. Do the P2P amps carry a great warranty for the cost?
This is the best video on the subject!! Hands down
Theres a Rhett Shull video comparing the two constructions of the same amp and the HW definitely has that extra something the PCB doesnt. Plus HW can actually be repaired.
Great point about the repair and extra special something! Thanks a ton for sharing your thoughts there and we’ll be sure to check out Rhetts video as well!
If I’m thinking of the same video, at the end he swaps the speaker in the pcb amp (I think it was a Princeton reissue) and the sound was much closer after the speaker swap.
the PCB design in Mesa Boogies has become the bane of amp repair guys everywhere...incredible amps, but apparently a nightmare to work on...being able to quickly repair an amp is a huge consideration...
Wow I didn't know you guys were in Southern Pines. Next time I visit Fayetteville I will stop.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Hand wired is easier to maintain and have more choice of 'quality' components.
PCB is affordable and harder to maintain because copper traces and parts to solder become significantly smaller.
Point to point is nuts.
Great video. Enjoyed every minute. Thank you
Just bought a VHT amp, hand wired out of China. Still in the honeymoon phase but I'm loving it so far.
Great amps!!
Nice work Jonathan!
Thanks!!!
There was a dude named Brian Cox who build amp kits in his garage. He specialized in clones of Fender Tweed Deluxe with upgradable components including Mercury transformers. He dressed the wires perfectly. I got a Deluxe, a Champ and a low powered Twin (sold it for more than I bought it for). Unfortunately, Brian Cox passed away in 2013. Still got the Champ and Deluxe.
AND ... I found the amp discussion! I trend towards the hand wired turret or eyelet board BUT ... the point to point is just wire spaghetti to me. I will mention that Josh (JHS) and Brian (Wampler) have turned me into a surface mount board for pedals WAAAAAAAY less noise!
I have a wonderful hand wired amp. Dr Z Z-Wreck. It’s the big one with the 2X12 cab. It’s a beast to schlep to gigs, but that tone!
Awesome amp!!
@@guitarjonathan yeah, not only is it the best amp I’ve ever owned I really think it’s the best amp I’ve ever heard!
Would you consider it a sort of boutique version of an AC30? I saw Brad Paisley during the Time Well Wasted tour and after the show I walked behind the stage and looked at his rig and literally sitting back there was an AC30 with a mic in front of it but on stage it was all Z's. Brad even mentioned his love for AC30's in his Joe Bonamassa interview from a few weeks ago. I just figure Matchless and Dr. Z amps are heavily inspired by the AC30. Dr. Z's are for sure awesome though.
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 yeah I think Z has made a few AC 30 inspired amps. I know the Trainwreck Rocket was, and Ken Fisher designed the circuit for this amp.
Hand wired involves more wire. Wire creates capacitance which might roll some highs off. PCB boards conduct better than wire,less possibility of losing tone. That might explain some of the tone differences between the two.
Interesting, thanks for commenting!
Good video, interesting topic for sure. Point to point, hand wired, or PCB all make for basically good amps as long as high quality components and soldering processes are used. From a PCB standpoint you should look for a though hole board. Surface mount components are generally harder to troubleshoot and replace if you do have a problem.
Transformers, wire routing and EMI shielding are underrepresented amplifier topics. After performing some modifications to my old Blues Junior I realized how important wire routing is to minimizing amp hum. Next I am planning on replacing the transformers with new units distributed gap cores and upgrading the speaker. I future video on these topic could be interesting...?
Mark Bartell is the guy you're looking for on this subject. The founder/designer of Tone King amps who's now building The finest hand wired amps I've ever seen under Bartell amps. I own a "hybrid" Hand built/PCB Falcon Grande and a Hand wired Imperial. It would be impossible to find something negative about the hybrid, yet I still lust after owning a hand wired Bartell amplifier. P.S. there has always been something uniquely superb about Carr amplifiers and god help me if I just found out why?
Thanks, I'll have to check out the Bartell stuff. I love all the Tone King stuff I've tried.
Thanks for this full explanation.
Great tutorial! Explains a lot. Thanks, man!
Thank you!
Its bad information.
Excellent. So helpful and clear. Thanks!
All right, i need some advice...
I found a Reissue Bassman 4x10 and i played it with a Coil-Split Schecter Synyster Gates and a Squire Strat (Old good guitar!) in 4th pickup positon (John Mayer setting)...
And i have NEVER been so moved by a sound before that i was able to produce. I have so far only owned digital modeling gear and right now my rig is a L6 Helix Floorboard...
So... I LOVED the Bassman sound. It was everything i would need for that single coil pickup sound. But i heard that it was PCB and im feeling this irrational feeling of "upcoming regret" if i choose to buy it. It shouldnt matter if its PCB, it sounds fantastic to me and i wanna own that sound. But why does that PCB information make me feel insecure about buying it?
To a guy who have never owned a Tube amp, is there anything i should be aware of by owning a Tube amp and specifically a PCB one?
(I know they are DANGEROUS to hande and can kill you if you are an idiot. Let the pro's handle them!)
Kindest regards!
Marco Winther from Denmark
Obviously, it’s been a few months since your comment, but I’ve owned a Fender Bassman Reissue for 6-7 years and it is a fantastic amp. If you did already buy it I would highly recommend not passing it up. Amps are my gear obsession so I own several. Some are hand wired and others are PCB, but all of them great. There is definitely an advantage to hand wired in regards to easier serviceability, but if you know a good amp tech you can always have a PCB amp converted to hand wired. If the Bassman you were looking at is used it would probably be cheaper to it and have it hand wired than to buy a hand wired Bassman clone. I’ve thought about having mine required, but as I said it is an excellent amp (often considered to be Fender’s best PCB amp) and there are too many other amps that I would like to own to spend money upgrading wrong that I already like anyway.
thanks for the break down, this helps
I had to rethink and rewrite this. I think what people miss about PCB is that its just the same circuit layouts as any handwired amp or p2p amp. Its just on a PCB. The components are surface mounted to them, which means you can replace a resistor the same as your handwired or p2p amps. Its also the year 2020 and were pretty good damn good at making quality PCBs. The wires in your boutique amps are made of copper the same as what is in PCBs. I bet in a blind test with a vintage amp, a modern p2p amp, a modern handwired amp and a modern pcb amp and lets say you throw in a kemper with pro designed profiles, 99/100 people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. But when you go to pay for them you certainly will tell the difference. If your proclivity and wallets can support those expensive amps then by all means, spend your money however you wish. But at the end of the day the tone comes from you and your fingers, nothing else matters.
Great thoughts and good points, Steve. Thanks!!!
As an EE, I can back this opinion wholeheartedly. The difference of two brand new ones is negligible. Now if a component breaks, you likely will have a harder problem with the PCB. But that’s the chance you take for not paying those higher labor costs of the hand wired.
PCB are weak and each time you work on them you stress the board. If you have two repairs and damage the board beyond repair your 800 dollar amp is now a giant paper weight. While the tone debate is subjective the reliability of P2P is not. A tech can quickly and easily repair P2P vs the PCB.
I’m an odd bird, my first tube amp was an old Fender Bassman 4x10. It weighed about a metric ton and I used to lug it all over to gigs around the Midwest for years. I actually don’t exactly remember what happened to that thing. I have a feeling, if I remember correctly, that my “brother” wanted it more than I did when I moved and he scalped it. No regrets other than harm done.
In point-to-point the signal has further to travel. Why isn't that worse? Do you think you could differentiate between the types of amp blindfolded?
I have opposite ends of the spectrum and love them both! Magnatone stereo and a Friedman!
Both awesome!
thx bro for dropping this knowledge and your experience , luv u guys, xoxo ❤❤❤
Right now, my dream amp is the handwired vox ac15 with the alnico blue speaker.
built my owm fender 5e3 from scratch. its my first tube (valve) amp and i love the sound. you are right about fixing things. if it breaks i can easily swap out components especially as i know how it was put together and i have a full wiring diagram. i had a HH bass amp that broke and it has some module pcb part that i think is broke but no way to fix that so it sits in my broken stuff pile. does hand wired make me a better player? nah, well maybe i appreciate it more so try to push myself.
Also: why does the Fender 64 hand wired sound different? The speaker. They put a better speaker in them. Rhett Shuhl has a video where they play a 64 and 65 reissue beside each other. And then they play the 65 through the speaker in the 64 and they sound almost identical.
straight-forward and understandable...thank you...
I hope somebody knows enough to answer. It's my understanding that capacitors go bad after a few years sometimes, perhaps the most common repair for a tech. So if I'm looking at 10 year old HW or PCB what should I be thinking about the likely bother and cost to replace some caps and maybe something else? I'm just saying a bargain for a used amp can be like that 3rd owner of the Benz $$. I'm thinking it's likely better to buy new rather than trying to save a couple hundred bucks. The amp is new only once.
Bogner and soldano has proved you can make a great pcb amp. If you just want 1 channel, no fx loop and no options, hand wired is ok, then there's the slo and ecstasy with the mulichannels and loops and switches and they sound great. Reliability? For the longest time soldano offered a lifetime transferable warranty on their slo and x88preamp. Did fender offer that with their "tweeds "? A good amp is a good amp.
Definitely great points! Thanks for commenting.
Mesa Boogie has used PCB from day one, even the MKI made famous by Santana was a PCB amp. And I can attest to them being tough as nail, having thrown my dc5 at crowds, down stairs, through drummers/drum sets (mostly the drummer) Its only had capacitors replaced, and a few broken tubes. (and the speaker cause it got damaged lol) Have a Sovtek Mig50 that is just as tough too, and I would say its more of a hybrid, it does have a pcb board, but everything is hand wired that connect to it, pots, tubes, transformers etc, and it was either in front of the dc5 or following on more or less the same paths of destruction. Currently running a dreaded red knob fender super 210, one of fenders early abortions of a PCB amp, and while I have calmed down some it still gets gigged and I'm not exactly gentle on them, so far its holding its own next to the same road weary dc5 (the Sovtek is semi retired as I no longer feel like dragging half stacks everywhere I go)
Good insight.
Thankyou so much very informative now I know what too look n hear for
PCB amps are cheaper and if you like the tone I don't see any argument against having one. HOWEVER - longterm they can work out more expensive because the more complex ones can be labour intensive to repair. I build and restore tube amps - there are very few PCB ones I'd bother fixing.
Thanks for the discription
I've only been able to afford PCB style. Do you think there is a style in the 3 discussed that takes pedals better?
I think the impedances of the amp and the pedals you are using is more a more important question to ask. Now that being said, tube amps usually take pedals well especially if the pedals are analog circuits. A lot of pedals are digital and emulate the old analog circuits. So that is often times a trial and error adventure.
Someone here on RUclips A/Bd a Fender production amp with a pcb vs a hand wired Custom Shop version of the otherwise same model. The pcb version sounded great while the hand wired version sounded amazing. Neither sounded bad in any way. Different, yes, but both had great tone.
Very cool.
Think that was Rhet Schull.
@@tedruybalid2262 yep, I thought that was probably the video he was thinking about.
@@guitarjonathan
Cool...Jonathan, you actually responded to my comment! Made my day!
I enjoy this channel immensely!
@@tedruybalid2262 thanks man!! Makes my day that you guys actually enjoy it! 😂
Yes I hear a difference between the reissue amps and The Originals there's definitely better tone coming from the original. But when you're playing live in a band mix do you really even noticed that little bit of a difference?
In a live situation maybe not, however in a recording or studio situation it could give you more subtle tones and such.
Really interesting. Good stuff.
Thanks!!
Know of any Point-to-Point amps where the circuit is on display? Like a nice mechanical wristwatch that has an open case back with a transparent window into the movement? I always found it odd to have this beautiful piece of work covered up so you cannot see it. I own 3 mechanical watches and all of them have transparent backs so I can admire the movements. I'd feel the same way about a tube amp.
I wanna see the tubes, and if it's hand wired or point to point I'd wanna see that too without needing a screwdriver.
I don't, but that would be awesome. Great idea.
The Helios is beautiful inside. I had the same thought. The VHT was PCB. both sound like leviathans of guitar tone. It is good to have either but the alignment of those components give you the finality of tone you're looking for.
My first Tube amp was a 70-71 Twin Reverb.
Awesome amp there!
Good place to start!!!
I love my Cornell 18/20 Plexi. Point to point perfection.
Turret boards and eyelet boards are top suggestions for mil spec. I.e, they can go to war .
Does the heat of the tubes warp the PCB boards?
I have a Blues Junior 1 PCB amp that was always a horrible amp. It would change volume and tone on its own; pop and snap when I touched the controls. Shopping for parts, I found a kit with all the small parts, pots, ceramic tube sockets and a turret board and hand wired the whole thing and had a blast doing it. Now I have a really solid, great sounding amp. The original PCB went into the trash. I have a Marshall DSL20 that is a PCB. It doesn't travel much but at the first sign of a problem it will be transformed into a hand-wired vintage. So I guess I'm sold on hand wired because as an engineer, I think high voltage DC has no place on a PCB.
IS that a bottle of Woodford in the background?
It is. 🙂
The only reason i have invested some what more money to get a handwire amp is because off the fact that these are easy to maintain , so when my amp breaks down , i know that any good amp tech can fix it without too much labourcost . Fixing things on a pcb board is way more tricky ( i have heard this said by many amp tech ) . Soundwise i think the difference between a good pcb amp or an handwired amp isn't that big to justify the ( sometimes huge ) extra cost for an handwired amp .
Good thoughts! I thought the same thing about repair and maintenance with handwired stuff. Thanks!!
@@guitarjonathan can i ask you wich magnatone you have ? I am having gas for the twilighter , luckaly it's so expensive ( 3000 euro's ) that i'm not even tempted to buy one :) , i'll stick with my dutch handmade amp ( marble ltd = upgraded 5E3 clone ) . Must admit that those magnatones seem wicked to me .
@@antoonhermans8953 I actually have the Twilighter. When we started carrying them I was hooked pretty immediately. 😂 Sold a guitar to buy one and haven't regretted it.
@@guitarjonathan i can imagine beeing hooked to this amp , congrats . I'm going to take a cold shower before i buy one right now : )
I have 1964 blonde bassman 6g6b all point wired and I wouldn't ever sell it.. easy to fix and work on main reason why tech loves working on it. (Point to point can be hazardous if not done right! Or comes loose.) Make sure caps are discharged before ever working on amp!
I played a Matchless in the late 90s. Great sounding amp. Recorded well but was not the best road amp. On stage it sounded great & never broke down but the Clubman got ripped off after a gig in Utah. 😔
I have a few and they are built like tanks. I can say they are not good road amps because they are WAY too nice haha.
I think I prefer PCB amps for one thing: consistency of sound. You know if you have a Blues Junior, it's going to sound like a blues junior. You don't have to go looking for a similar sound, just the same amp.
Well said brother PCB is good if done right and on certain components like you said My favorite is PTP and HW I love the magic and mojo AND the discrepancies that make certain ones SO good Fortunately for me I have several that I got years ago before the prices went way up I should have bought a Trainwreck when they were 850 LoL 😂
Great subject. Honestly, I'm more concerned about quality components than how it's put together. That pcb is the same no matter what. The computer and machines doing the work don't come in with hangovers and personal problems.
The Deville was also my first tube amp. The only time it ever sounded good was when I was hallucinating on mushrooms. Boy what a sound!
😂😂😂
The older Deville's sucked. They fooled you into thinking that they sounded good but they didn't.
@@216trixie With all due respect, a Deville on mushrooms would blow a Dumble to pieces
@@analognoir7398 Lol! Agreed. Things go better with shrooms.
Love my Peavey Classic 50, it's cheap and sounds good, with tube breakup. However, if the caps go bad my amp guy is going to charge me a fortune to fix it... PCB boards and super-tight packaging make it less repair friendly... but I picked up a 50-watt tube amp for $350... can't beat that. Next thing I plan to do is buy a kit from Mojo tone and either put it together myself or my amp guy offers a class where you can do it with him... that should be killer, build a 5E3 amp, and learn all about the guts.
Used to have a peavey classic 30 I traded for at a pawn shop. It was super cool. I don't think i trust myself to build one. Lol. Thanks for watching!
My Luthier's Peavey sounds killer but it breaks down too much so I am passing for now. They are nicely priced for sure though.
Vintage Sano amps made just down the road from Ampeg in NJ in the 60/70's Hand-Wired lower wattage amps by an all or mostly female workforce. I love'm.
Same with Marshalls... women are thought of to have more dexterity, and more importantly PATIENCE in soldering and wiring components. I learned that from the late Ken Fischer of Trainwreck Amplifiers (he worked at Ampeg for years) over 30 years ago.
i’ve seen amazing hand wiring at my job. i’ve done amazing pcb design at my job. there’s a million differences - parasitics, coupling, impedance and signal propagation...the only thing i can say is that a pcb would be more consistent. i hope i don’t venture down boutique amps. says the guy who swears there’s tonal differences between different rosewoods :)
😂😂😂
My first tube amp was a fender hot rod deville too
Hand wired tube amps are better than PCB. Point to Point amps are better than hand wired. These two statements are true. The confusion comes in that although they are better, when a player hears that they are better they immediately assume they "sound" better. The sound difference between them shouldn't be much different. The fact is that a PCB amp can find itself in an unrepairable state, where as a hand-wired amp is less likely to find itself unrepairable, and a Point to Point amp can almost never become damaged in a way that it cannot be repaired.
That's a really great way to put it and an important distinction. Thanks!!
I have a Carr Rambler. Point to point construction. It really is an amazing amp. I also have a Hammond AO-44 and AO-35. These are great affordable hand wired options.
I play hand wired because I live in a rural community and the techs in my area can work on hand wired amps and not PCB. At least that’s what I’m told.
PTP are great but you really do have to handle those amps different. A bit more gentle. I would say it’s the purest signal flow but not sure if it’s worth THAT much more attention and money. For me, NO but I can’t really argue with someone who thinks it is. It’s all up to the individual. I am talking about NEW amps.
Once again the only point touched on for PCB amps is their Cost savings for the manufacturer and the end buyer. WHAT ABOUT THE TONE!??? If I were to attempt to build a 2 JCM 800's, Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier's, Fender Deluxe Reverb's, etc 1 the traditional hand wired way and 1 on PCB would the PCB element have a direct measurable effect on the tone and feel of the amp overall? and if not why not Ditch the pretentious "Boutique" status of otherwise INEFFICENTINFERIOR EQUIPMENT WITH A BIGGER PRICE TAG!
If I like it I will buy it!
Handwired and point to point all the way. Way more reliable and from a gigging perspective reliability is everything.
Alex Woolridge - for gigging, my solid state goes in the car. It’s close enough and no ever asked why I don’t use a tube amp. At home, use my tube amp. It warms up my practice room nicely. 😊
@@daveduffy2823 that's good. I actually use an orange micro dark at gigs. It does a fantastic job but I'll never not love my all tube handwired amps though. Fun to build and modify too
It seems a bit weird to use a $100 high quality, heavy gauge instrument cable with all this shielding only to have your tone pass through a trace on a PCB.
I see no distinction between hand-wired and point-to-point as far as quality / tone would be concerned.
Your tone doesn't care if there is a board holding the components in place.
Your tone might care if it's going through a wire vs. a pcb trace.
... with that being said, if you can't tell, you can't tell. Double blind study of same exact circuit is only way to see if people can hear a difference.
My amp is a modeling amp so my tone is going from analog to digital back to analog again... but I'm just a beginner.
I don't know what my first tube amp will be, but I'd lean more towards either handwound and point to point.
For a classic fender hand wired amp, changing a component is as easy as removing the chassis and get your iron out. PCBs generally require removing the whole circuit board which can be time consuming. Then you have to be careful desoldering to not damage the board. For me, I choose a SF amp and make a few bf mods and you good for years, price about same as a new PCb amp.
would it be worth converting a PCB to a point to point or a hand wired ?
jay Crain not really, it is quite a lot of work. I know people do conver5 them but I doubt any tonal benefits.