This is very cool, i had no idea all this was in a water meter. Just to let you know, in Yorkshire, England, the meters are inside the house, with a small antenna, and the meter reader doesn't even have to come to your house, they just drive around in a specially modified van picking up meter reads all day! They are also trialing Electric meters with mobile phone type sim cards, and they can shut off your electric from their head office!
5:04 the Sensus SRII uses a "piston chamber" design (not impeller), theres alot of surface area to drag in a piston design, causing lower accuracy at low flow. a meter like this could potentially give a customer free water if the leak is 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of flow per minute. I have tested some of these in the SR variant where they have not moved untill 3/4 GPM. these SRII meters are better for the customer due to their lower accuracy at low flow. they are genrally accurate from 3GPM to thier max around 15-20GPM 5:39 these are magnetically coupled. magnetic coupling got popular in the late 60s/70s. previous to that they were direct driven with a stuffing box around the shaft to prevent water from leaking out, but there was more drag in that previous design. 7:36 put some water on the surfaces, it will have less resistance and you can show its movement easy 20:24 if the chamber spins faster than a certain RPM the magnets will uncouple. i have seen this with high water pressure and someone running all thier sprinkler zones at once, over driving the meter. when the magnents uncouple, the meter will not register flow until the flow rate slows down and then they will recouple and start recording again 32:12 the date code on that circuit chip was 9424 which is 1994 24th week. so i would say that meter was probabally installed around 1995. the SRII series was popular in the 1990s so that would line up correct. there should be a date code on the face of the register, but is not an intuitive code, probably something like 015 which 01 would be January and 5 would be 1995 or there could be an alphanumeric code on the face such as 1-C which 1 would be January and C would be 1995
The triangle lets you know water is indeed flowing. The more water that is flowing, the faster it moves. It is primarily used as a quick indicator for inspectors to determine the presence of a leak.
It is a brushed-type motor, but it is also an electromagnetic-stator motor, which means that EVEN ON DC it will always spin the same way if you reverse the polarity because the stator magnet polarity changes along with the polarity of the rotor. Hooking it up backwards only works with permanent-magnet motors.
I'd like to know where the anti-reverse mechanism was. The blue gear on the register drive definitely drove it in reverse, so there either was a pawl somewhere in the bottom, or a one-way ratchet in the worm drive?
about 2 years later am back looking at this video and remember how i thought I had invented a pretty cool way to digitize the mechanical counter in water meters for a remote enabled reading application, well my idea was to use resistance in between the coils and measure the total resistance representing the place values of all the counter wheels, but then, it was already done more than 7 years ago before i begun thinking of it...and that is how sweet bitter life is, that was a pretty cool undergraduate project idea i had thought of...nonetheless i credit myself for thinking like those guys shows I am on the right path...bitter sweet lemons 2 years later but I would like to meet the guy who digitized that stuff who came with the original idea first.
That motor would also spin the same way on DC aswell, regardless of polarity, because you're reversing the connection to the armature AND the field windings, a double reversal.
My water meter is still a mechanical meter. Its located in the side walk in front of my home. Baltimore is currently swapping out the old mechanical meters and swapping them with the digital ones like you have. Also, if the bottom part malfunctions, its easy to keep the initial reading and change it out. PS: Dremeling left to right would make the plastic shoot to the ground instead of your face. ;)
30:00 for the electronic goodies... curious to find out exactly what that chip does (no luck looking for details). Many of the water meters I've worked on have been pulse / hall effect sensor that go into a PLC to calculate flow rate and totals! Interesting stuff Boden!
I am here because I was so curious how that little electric transmitter box and wire to the analog meter worked and how it translated analog movement to digital. You covered everything from how movement of water activates a magnet to move the numbers on the analog meter and how the movement of numbers is translated into digital signals to be read electronically. I've never seen a video like this. Quite interesting.
I have two water meters like this, minus the electronic part. One new, another an Ebay find. Taken both apart as well. our meters are in a small manhole in the front yards, below the frost line. the cover is under a foot in diameter.
That water meter is all brass ;-), the old analog ones are always interesting & handy!! the readout side is always completely sealed, to prevent dust and other nasty stuff getting in! the water meter I have is soldered shut!!
For those of you who might suggest running the cutter on DC (since the cutter uses a universal motor): that would not work since the cutter would spin the same way regardless of the supply polarity. The polarity of either the field or armature windings (electromagnet field) or the DC side of the rectifier (permanent magnet field) would have to be reversed in order to change the direction of rotation of the motor.
10,000 years from now, some archaeologist will find one of these water meters and follow the same procedure -- without knowing the purpose of this gizmo. "Clearly it was intended to determine the value of offerings to their god, Sensus."
Envision reversing A/C voltage in your head. It's going back and forth like a wave in the ocean. If you reverse it, it's still a wave. If you look at it through a mirror... still a wave. Goes up, goes down.
the drimel will likely always run that way, some ac motors you have a shot with depending on polarity at time you plug it in. (that's why your microwave randomly changes directions if it has turn table.) your best bet is to hope the drimel has a universal motor, witch wouldn't surprise me, and run on 120V DC.
not to sound smug, but when he tried to reverse the polarity on the 120AC supply to the Dremel, I started screaming at the laptop screen: "It's not gonna work!". I pat myself on the back now....... Yes, I am an electrical engineer.
Because meters (cubic or linear) more easily translate to cubic inches. For example, approx 3ft per meter; or 39" (you can round down to 36") per meter. Now with 46656 cu.in's per cu. meter; and you have 243 cu. in per U.S. gallon, since the conversion/ rates are already an accepted standard, it's the simplest way to measure equivalent gallons.
Senus says the bodies of their residential water meters are made of low-lead bronze. You can obtain PDF data sheets for their products from www.sensus.com/water. The measurement mechanism is a type of positive displacement pump operated in reverse as a motor by the water flow through the meter. I've seen such a meter operating with the outlet fully open, with maximum, unregulated flow directly from the water main, and one can hear a "clunk-clunk-clunk" sound as the rotary piston moves round and round inside the chamber. Normally, in a residential situation, you would never hear it, because the flow rate is much lower.
It's called a measuring chamber. And the head is sealed but can be removed without breaking it. There is a wrench that turns the round silver disc on the side.
Thank you for this informative video. Is it possible for the water meter to give a false over reading by a factor of 3? I had an average water usage at my house of about 3,000 gallons. Then one month it went to 102,000 gallons then the next month the meter didn't work...it didn't read any water usage. It completely stopped functioning. We had a leak, but it was measured by the plumber at about 3gallons/hour or about 2,200 gallons a month. The bill was $1,200. Any insights you might offer would be great.
Here's a question, if one was to place a strong enough magnet at the correct spot could you lock the meter in place? Then removed it when the inspector comes? Is this something you could test?
You said that the chip counts the turns. Does it count or does it take a snap shot at the time of the meter reading. I would think you were right with the RFID statement that charges up the circuit and it returns the snap shot not stored data. Could be wrong though
Swap any two leads of a 3 phase motor and it will reverse direction, a 3 phase AC motor, also the most common. Many single phase AC motors (actually split phase but who's keeping track) have a provision for swapping wires from within the grouping to change direction. Ever hear of a "universal motor" operates on both AC or DC, how about "shaded pole"?
Regards the electric and gas meters, depending on where you life a lot of them are read by RF and never get inspected. Oh I know, National Grid has been DYING to know what I'm doing with the gas service. But since the charge a higher customer charge and per ccf and therm rate if you heat versus cook and hot water what they don't know won't hurt them.
I took out the register and cleaned out the screen. I put everything back together and confirmed operation with a garden hose. Although when I put it back online, no operation when the pump kicks on. Any ideas?
the Dutch system is part based on trust, on the other hand, if you move out or the meter needs to be changed they eventually will figure out and you will pay for it!!
I wonder how you people react if i tell you both the electrical gas and water company do not come to check you meters but rely on you sending the usages to them. Apparently the dutch companies thrust us i guess. Well they do come check occasionally but i think only once every year or 2 years.
I first saw the gas meters, amazing! Now this, along with your enthusiasm. Great autopsy, thanks for sharing the fun and knowledge!
This is very cool, i had no idea all this was in a water meter. Just to let you know, in Yorkshire, England, the meters are inside the house, with a small antenna, and the meter reader doesn't even have to come to your house, they just drive around in a specially modified van picking up meter reads all day! They are also trialing Electric meters with mobile phone type sim cards, and they can shut off your electric from their head office!
5:04 the Sensus SRII uses a "piston chamber" design (not impeller), theres alot of surface area to drag in a piston design, causing lower accuracy at low flow. a meter like this could potentially give a customer free water if the leak is 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of flow per minute. I have tested some of these in the SR variant where they have not moved untill 3/4 GPM. these SRII meters are better for the customer due to their lower accuracy at low flow. they are genrally accurate from 3GPM to thier max around 15-20GPM
5:39 these are magnetically coupled. magnetic coupling got popular in the late 60s/70s. previous to that they were direct driven with a stuffing box around the shaft to prevent water from leaking out, but there was more drag in that previous design.
7:36 put some water on the surfaces, it will have less resistance and you can show its movement easy
20:24 if the chamber spins faster than a certain RPM the magnets will uncouple. i have seen this with high water pressure and someone running all thier sprinkler zones at once, over driving the meter. when the magnents uncouple, the meter will not register flow until the flow rate slows down and then they will recouple and start recording again
32:12 the date code on that circuit chip was 9424 which is 1994 24th week. so i would say that meter was probabally installed around 1995. the SRII series was popular in the 1990s so that would line up correct. there should be a date code on the face of the register, but is not an intuitive code, probably something like 015 which 01 would be January and 5 would be 1995 or there could be an alphanumeric code on the face such as 1-C which 1 would be January and C would be 1995
i'm studying engineering on industrial maintenance in mexico and this is pretty cool and i learn a lot in this video
The triangle lets you know water is indeed flowing. The more water that is flowing, the faster it moves. It is primarily used as a quick indicator for inspectors to determine the presence of a leak.
It is a brushed-type motor, but it is also an electromagnetic-stator motor, which means that EVEN ON DC it will always spin the same way if you reverse the polarity because the stator magnet polarity changes along with the polarity of the rotor. Hooking it up backwards only works with permanent-magnet motors.
I'd like to know where the anti-reverse mechanism was.
The blue gear on the register drive definitely drove it in reverse, so there either was a pawl somewhere in the bottom, or a one-way ratchet in the worm drive?
We down here in South Carolina call it BRASSSS
about 2 years later am back looking at this video and remember how i thought I had invented a pretty cool way to digitize the mechanical counter in water meters for a remote enabled reading application, well my idea was to use resistance in between the coils and measure the total resistance representing the place values of all the counter wheels, but then, it was already done more than 7 years ago before i begun thinking of it...and that is how sweet bitter life is, that was a pretty cool undergraduate project idea i had thought of...nonetheless i credit myself for thinking like those guys shows I am on the right path...bitter sweet lemons 2 years later but I would like to meet the guy who digitized that stuff who came with the original idea first.
Love the videos. New sub. Ty
That motor would also spin the same way on DC aswell, regardless of polarity, because you're reversing the connection to the armature AND the field windings, a double reversal.
My water meter is still a mechanical meter. Its located in the side walk in front of my home. Baltimore is currently swapping out the old mechanical meters and swapping them with the digital ones like you have. Also, if the bottom part malfunctions, its easy to keep the initial reading and change it out.
PS: Dremeling left to right would make the plastic shoot to the ground instead of your face. ;)
30:00 for the electronic goodies... curious to find out exactly what that chip does (no luck looking for details). Many of the water meters I've worked on have been pulse / hall effect sensor that go into a PLC to calculate flow rate and totals! Interesting stuff Boden!
I am here because I was so curious how that little electric transmitter box and wire to the analog meter worked and how it translated analog movement to digital. You covered everything from how movement of water activates a magnet to move the numbers on the analog meter and how the movement of numbers is translated into digital signals to be read electronically. I've never seen a video like this. Quite interesting.
I have two water meters like this, minus the electronic part. One new, another an Ebay find. Taken both apart as well. our meters are in a small manhole in the front yards, below the frost line. the cover is under a foot in diameter.
That water meter is all brass ;-), the old analog ones are always interesting & handy!! the readout side is always completely sealed, to prevent dust and other nasty stuff getting in! the water meter I have is soldered shut!!
That is a positive displacement meter body.
For those of you who might suggest running the cutter on DC (since the cutter uses a universal motor): that would not work since the cutter would spin the same way regardless of the supply polarity. The polarity of either the field or armature windings (electromagnet field) or the DC side of the rectifier (permanent magnet field) would have to be reversed in order to change the direction of rotation of the motor.
10,000 years from now, some archaeologist will find one of these water meters and follow the same procedure -- without knowing the purpose of this gizmo. "Clearly it was intended to determine the value of offerings to their god, Sensus."
It looks like it is powered from the read-out device. It only needs power at the moment you want to read the current number on the meter.
You are amazing! Thank you!
Envision reversing A/C voltage in your head. It's going back and forth like a wave in the ocean. If you reverse it, it's still a wave. If you look at it through a mirror... still a wave. Goes up, goes down.
That is a gerotor and a magnet, which is also found in a fuel flow transmitter of a large aircraft.
really informative video. thank you :)
Great video dude... btw, i'm water meter's salesman
Hehehehe reversing AC.. Having a little geek-free moment there, boys? ^^
the drimel will likely always run that way, some ac motors you have a shot with depending on polarity at time you plug it in. (that's why your microwave randomly changes directions if it has turn table.) your best bet is to hope the drimel has a universal motor, witch wouldn't surprise me, and run on 120V DC.
not to sound smug, but when he tried to reverse the polarity on the 120AC supply to the Dremel, I started screaming at the laptop screen: "It's not gonna work!". I pat myself on the back now....... Yes, I am an electrical engineer.
Trying to get one.
I was wondering if anyone would notice that. I didn't think about it until the day after.
where's the power for the meter come from, battery in the read head outside?
Yes it is for the sensus supposedly lasting for "Up to Twenty YEARS"
Because meters (cubic or linear) more easily translate to cubic inches.
For example, approx 3ft per meter; or 39" (you can round down to 36") per meter. Now with 46656 cu.in's per cu. meter; and you have 243 cu. in per U.S. gallon, since the conversion/ rates are already an accepted standard, it's the simplest way to measure equivalent gallons.
Senus says the bodies of their residential water meters are made of low-lead bronze. You can obtain PDF data sheets for their products from www.sensus.com/water.
The measurement mechanism is a type of positive displacement pump operated in reverse as a motor by the water flow through the meter. I've seen such a meter operating with the outlet fully open, with maximum, unregulated flow directly from the water main, and one can hear a "clunk-clunk-clunk" sound as the rotary piston moves round and round inside the chamber. Normally, in a residential situation, you would never hear it, because the flow rate is much lower.
It's called a measuring chamber. And the head is sealed but can be removed without breaking it. There is a wrench that turns the round silver disc on the side.
Also called a positive displacement meter. There are a variety of other methods, of course - multi-jet, ultrasonic, magnetic...
Most likely bronze is less prone to corrosion. Ever seen green stained copper?
Thank you
You're welcome!
that is not bronze it's brass
Thank you for this informative video. Is it possible for the water meter to give a false over reading by a factor of 3? I had an average water usage at my house of about 3,000 gallons. Then one month it went to 102,000 gallons then the next month the meter didn't work...it didn't read any water usage. It completely stopped functioning. We had a leak, but it was measured by the plumber at about 3gallons/hour or about 2,200 gallons a month. The bill was $1,200. Any insights you might offer would be great.
Here's a question, if one was to place a strong enough magnet at the correct spot could you lock the meter in place? Then removed it when the inspector comes? Is this something you could test?
You said that the chip counts the turns.
Does it count or does it take a snap shot at the time of the meter reading. I would think you were right with the RFID statement that charges up the circuit and it returns the snap shot not stored data.
Could be wrong though
A/C motors only spin one way. Reversing the polarity willonly work on a D/C motor.
Swap any two leads of a 3 phase motor and it will reverse direction, a 3 phase AC motor, also the most common. Many single phase AC motors (actually split phase but who's keeping track) have a provision for swapping wires from within the grouping to change direction. Ever hear of a "universal motor" operates on both AC or DC, how about "shaded pole"?
So your wrong Robert, in case this thesis has escaped you.
we call it brass in Auzzie mate
+Paul Carnevale It's actually not bronze at all, it was brass. I have yet to see bronze in any valvework, it's almost always either brass or plastic.
+Paul Carnevale Brass and bronze are different metals.
Mate did you even read what i said? I said brass not bronze@
Paul Carnevale I did see what you said. I'm saying brass and bronze are different alloys. I believe bronze has a much higher copper content to brass.
Because a liter is a little to smal unit and 1m3=1000L so instead of noting x1000L on the shield it makes more sense to use m3.
I see water meters that have no inlet or outlet. How the heck do those work?
Whatever they were made in of someone stole all the water meters from our estate. We have non metal ones now
Magnetic coupling
is there any way to get back the airtight seal on the top cover?
Can a water meter such as this one, record more water usage than what actually went thru the meter?
*Asking for a friend :)
No, when a water meter faults, they slow down or stop. Meaning that it would actually register less than what is used.
I like this!
You cant reverse polarity on ac like you can on DC and the faster pin is the constant not the small one
Why cubic metres? Why not litres or something else?
What powers the circuit? The water spun gears?
Battery in the wall mounted outside transmitter.
Regards the electric and gas meters, depending on where you life a lot of them are read by RF and never get inspected.
Oh I know, National Grid has been DYING to know what I'm doing with the gas service. But since the charge a higher customer charge and per ccf and therm rate if you heat versus cook and hot water what they don't know won't hurt them.
Hooking AC up backwards? :) sounds like a perfectly good plan.
Fuck that was cooler than I thought it would be!
so you know what your doing or just learning while we watch?
Did you watch the whole video?
I have mosaic Firefly meter at my home and I got $1000 water bill in error, have others gotten huge water bills without water leak????????
The small triangle is a leak detector.
Knock down on the commercials and I'll keep
What is there aren't four bolts on the bottom?
I took out the register and cleaned out the screen.
I put everything back together and confirmed operation with a garden hose. Although when I put it back online, no operation when the pump kicks on. Any ideas?
Does it make a difference if its copper vs bronze?
The big issue with choosing various alloys is limiting the amount of lead for people ingesting the water.
Place a large magnet behind it and that's how you hack an old water meter.
Uuuuuuh..... ring? How far behind am I on the blog?
Connecting stainless to copper would result in galvanic corrosion.
cool video
AC is AC, you can't reverse it :P
only way to reverse a brush motor is by reversing the field or armature wires internally
Watching
How does the IC get power?
Battery in the wall mounted outside transmitter.
2:50 that wrench would work a lot better if you used it properly.
Personally I think SnapOn should stop and sell him some box end wrenches. Seems pretty amateurish to use channel lock pliers.
the Dutch system is part based on trust, on the other hand, if you move out or the meter needs to be changed they eventually will figure out and you will pay for it!!
20:40 Water meter*
If there is no electricity (batteries) involved then how would you be able to increment a count to that IC chip?
I wonder how you people react if i tell you both the electrical gas and water company do not come to check you meters but rely on you sending the usages to them. Apparently the dutch companies thrust us i guess. Well they do come check occasionally but i think only once every year or 2 years.
its brass
Sooooo, you wanted to 'reverse' AC....?!? :-D
i think the reverse speed thing would only work if you supplied dc power
So then, all we need is a dirt cheap uC with a scrap of code running on it to emulate the the original meter and hey presto free water. Nice.
The utility would notice abnormally low readings and investigate and or replace the meter.
So we all should buy a big magnet and put it next to the water meter to stop it from counting and enjoy free water?
shouldnt theyve made these things out of sth stainless ? ^^
The body of that meter is made out of Brass.
Inside is a nodding disc. Best to do some research about what you are dealing with before posting a video.
I've also seen it called a 'nutating disk'
This guy sure doesn’t know much about anything.