The Harry Potter series was one of the only books I've ever attended a midnight release for. Of course, I was working a job a stone's throw from the book store and started work at 10pm with a break at about 1am so it was convenient but I was there! Funny story involving "Goblet of Fire". My younger daughter was reading that while my oldest was reading Piers Anthony's "With a Tangled Skein". I had previously read both and if you know anything about them, both have a character named Cedric and in both (what are the odds???) Cedric is murdered. So when my older daughter said to me "I can't believe this? Why did Cedric get murdered?" I naturally responded without thinking and said "Well, it's not like Voldemort had a use for him." While my oldest just looked at me in confusion, my youngest lowered her book and gave me a look that any book lover who doesn't like spoilers would recognize. Oops. Lol
@TheLoreLodge my kids were 9 and 12 at the time. They're now 30 and 33. The whole bunch of you make me feel old, lol. I loved that my kids got hooked on series. Anthony was great, so many series and Xanth was great even for a young reader (mostly, lol. IYKYK).
@@TheLoreLodge yo what's the deal with the edits where there are multiple clips in a row where you basically say the same thing? Just wondering if it's something you're missing (not hating, I really appreciate this channel)
@@TheLoreLodge I feel the need to point out that... Tolkein's "Dwarves" were... essentially made up by Tolkein. He drew inspiration from Norse folklore, but the closest thing in Norse Folklore was Svartalfr.... who are actually Black Elves. Svartalfr are often highly skilled craftsmen as they're often multiple centuries old... and they can be found in mines underground. If you want something really weird to read up on.... The difference between Losalfr and Svartalfr is easy, Light Elves vs Black Elves. The wrinkle is there's also Myrkalfr.... "Shadow Elves"... we don't have enough on them to know how they fit in with the other two.
Aiden there is mention of the witch trials in the Books... first year... history of magic... talked about how the witch trials barley caught an real witches and the ones that were caught just preformed a charm on themselves to prevent themselves from burning alives. Theres even a mention of a certain wizard who liked the feeling of the flames so much he got caught many times.
Selkies were a euphemistic way to explain why your spouse had ran off. "My darling Sheila, a selkie she was. Found her skin and returned to the depths. Such a fair and treacherous creature." "Aye damn those wretched selkies! Me own wife, Mary, was lured into the waves by a he-selkie."
@@Ami-jc2ooIt is not hard to see how the legends surrounding the seal people came to be so prevalent in coastal communities. Duncan Williamson eloquently explained it: ‘[T]he importance of the silkie is its part in the Other World or after-life. For instance, if you were a fisherman and you lived with your daddy in a little croft by the seaside, and you had your brother, your grandfather or your uncle lost at sea; what would you do if their body was not found? […] But if you thought for one instant that [he] never returned because he had joined the seal people, he’d become one of them; then how would you feel? […] Now this is the legend. That’s why it was told. To make people feel comforted if their loved ones were never found. They probably joined the seal people, became seal folk. And you’ll see them again.’1
This is a good video but they do address witch trials and persecution, it’s said that if they ever did catch a real witch or wizard they would cast a spell and just get tickled by fire then disapparate so it still makes sense in the series I think they said one guy was like addicted to getting caught
I don't think that anyone expected Harry Potter to provide an authentic take on mythology or folklore. It was just taking advantage of cultural familiarity to serve a story; some of it being well done and others not so much. The valentine dwarves were hilarious.
I like how Rowling tried to avoid some of the common fantasy tropes and do new takes on it. Even if I'm not sure the end result is good, I know that trying to be "faithful to the myths" only goes so far.
@@marhawkman303 Thing is: barely anyone knows the actual myths anymore. While I'm not opposed to taking inspiration from them and then turning it into your own thing - which by the way is what Tolkien did - we no longer are anywhere close to authentic mythology. When something becomes popular, it soon becomes the mainstream. It's just a shame when we forget the origins.
I think a deep dive into the Spider Wick Chronicles would be really neat to see, that series always felt like it pulled more from actual myth in comparison to Harry Potter.
Ah! A fellow Spiderwick lover! When the fantastic beasts series came out I was like "I'm sorry the only field guide I respect in this house was authored by Arthur Spiderwick."
loved the spiderwick chronicles as a kid, someone got me the box set in the middle of my hp obsessed phase since it was vaguely similar. this comment made me remember i still have it somewhere on my shelf and i should reread it, so thanks :)
Spider Wick Chronicles is literally the only movie my daughter made us leave the theater maybe 20 minutes in, it scared her silly for whatever reason. I wonder if she’d watch it, now that she’s 22😂
i just want to mention that if anyone is interested in selkies, i would highly recommend the movie "the secret of roan inish" which heavily involves the lore. great movie.
In HP the Statute of Secrecy was put into place in the 1700s because of the witch hunts of earlier centuries. These violent actions were mentioned throughout the series usually when the characters are in History of Magic class. PS Bogarts and Redcaps are part of the HP lore, though Redcaps are only mentioned in the books.
Oh yeah, I had an itch in my mind saying that the entire reason the Wizarding world was secret is to keep the population safe from witch hunts. Maybe not that one Aiden mentioned specifically, but in general.
@@marhawkman303 okay? i was just commenting casue this person said that redcaps are only mentioned in the books which is factually wrong as they are mentioned in the movies.
as someone who never read he book and only thoroughly watched the movies once ortwice but is very big on folklore, I think it speaks volumes I never realized the "selkies" were selkies. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT. But that aside it is cool (and good) to see some hsitorcial art and logs of the other influences of things in the world. I'm also glad we're talking about how weird the trend of calling everything a skinwalker was
Crazily enough, Redcaps exist in the Harry Potter universe, but to my knowledge are only seen in like, one mobile game and Lego Harry Potter Years 1-4 (practically all the dark forest levels have them, and they are Quite Odd). They are mentioned in the core bookseries tho, I remember in Prisoner of Azkaban (both the book and the peak movie), Hermione mentions that Lupin was teaching students about them (and whatever the hell a Hinkypunk is) when Snape tries to expose Lupin as a werewolf in a totally professional way.
A hinkypunk is a "real" creature (as in: it exists in lore outside of HP) that tries to lure wanderers into moors. In German we simply call them Irrlicht (irren = to be on the wrong path, Licht = light), the most common English term seems to be will-o'-the-wisp. It's essentially the same thing that Frodo ecounters on the way to Mordor. Scientificically, it could be gases produced in moors & marshland that give off an eerie, greenish glow at night. But admittedly, a creature with a little lantern is more interesting 😅
they're fought as enemies in the Prisoner of Azkaban GBA game in various locations among a whole other host of creatures whose info you compile into a bestiary that tells you which spells are most/least effective against them in a sort of Pokémon-esque gameplay
I feel like there is something that you missed and maybe might like to hear about: When you said JK didn't take a concept from a different culture and create a new lore... she absolutely did. My descriptions are going off the top of my head so forgive any mistakes, but: in the books and wiki, Veela are described as beautiful women with hair that shines like moonlight until you anger them. When angered, they turn into horrific birdlike monsters that can throw fire hands at you. When they are humans they are so beautiful that people will do anything to get close to them. Fleur Weasley née Delacour is actually a part-Veela, as is her younger sister Gabrielle. Harry Potter Veela are specifically mentioned as originating from Bulgaria, I think. Now, if you look at folklore, there are some very close similarities to the Slavic víla (pronounced almost the same way as Veela, which is a very clever adaptation of the name to get the point across to English readers,). I am Slovak and like the majority of my modern brethren, am Catholic, so I don't understand the víla's original folklore besides being the word in my language for MAID(en) or FAIRY. I think a lot of stories mention them give them connections to nature like water, forests, and flowers - they are often found in forests or near water. I think Rusalka might be a víla (specifically a vodná víla or water maid) but I am not familiar with her story so I can't say. But again I don't know many specifics about víla because I was never told any serious stories about them, just the concept of a víla as a pretty nature-dwelling young woman. The word víla also comes in for our word for mermaid: morská víla, which directly translated would be ocean maid. There are also many Slavic languages and I don't know their equivalent names and stories for víla so these were just my experiences with them. I'm happy to hear about others if anyone knows them!! I said all of this because I would love a deep dive on the other cultures and folk tales JK Rowling used (because learning is fun) but I understand if you're uninterested or don't have the time.
You make an excellent point. I also remember JK Rowling presenting more magical schools with details borrowed/stolen from other cultural traditions in the lead up to 'Fantastic Beasts.' Specifically, the American Wizarding school Ilvermorny had a history that uses indigenous myth ideas.
You can definitely read up more about them on wikipedia, but I would also appreciate if Aiden would do a deep dive in some of this. It would be hard though as most sources are in one slavic language or another. As far as I found on the wiki, all these Veelas are basically nature spirits, all named one way or another. Specifically in Russian/Ukrainian folklore there might be a confusion between benign and malevolent spirits. As sometimes Mavkas (forest spirits) are described as evil spirits that form after the death of a young child that didn't get christened. But there is an Ukrainian animation with the Mavka as a main character, not very evil at all. Mavka can also be a version of Navka in other slavic languages, but in Russian specifically (and apparently in some other slavic culturesas well) Navi are evil spirits of the dead that died an unnatural death. Then there are the Samodivas - the Vilas, who in Bulgarian folklore are basically benevolent fairies who help the heroes on their journey. Samodivas also appear to be confused with another kind of Russian fairy/spirit of River sirens, and after the 19th century they were just called Rusalka, which today means mermaid. Like the Little Mermaid by H.C. Andersen but in fact aren't anything alike at all. So in the end we have Veela, Rusalka/Mermaid/Selkie, then the plethora of nature spirits from forests, rivers, oceans and mountains. In that sense, any and all spirits, that follow the pagan traditions would be grouped together and called evil, because they were aiming to replace the local beliefs with the Christian myths.
@@arnaeri9290the animated film is based on a fairy drama written and published in 1911, one which was groundbreaking in how it gave a Mavka agency and personhood since up to that point in Central and Eastern Ukraine, Mavky were traditionally warded off alongside Rusalki during the Pentecost season which was previously designated as "Rusalki week". The author, Lesya Ukrainka, drew upon her own personal knowledge of the Polissya region's local folklore (her being from Volyn) to craft the story and The Forest Song has its own analog in its predecessor, Dvořàk's Rusalka opera, making them both successors to H.C.A.'s The Little Mermaid.
33:37 Fun fact. In Russian language the words Волшебник and Ведьма (corresponding to Wizard and Witch respectively) are also deliniated with one being more focused on practicing supernatural and the other about just being wise. But they are revered. The feminine Ведьма is about wisdom with roots coming from Ведать - archaic for Know. And Волшебникis rooted in Волшебство which is a term for magic.
So one thing you got wrong about the yulelads is they start coming on the 11th because the 25th is when the Christmas Cat comes. Literally watched this on my way back from Reykjavík.
That's exactly what I was thinking watching the video. Not only was Sir Terry a wonderful writer who created an amazing universe, but he had a deep understanding of folklore. "The Folklore of Discworld", written with Jacqueline Simpson explores a wide range of the myths and tales he incorporated into the Discworld.
@@DrLotko I was just about to recommend both Sir Terry's writing, and "The Folklore of Discworld" when I read this comment! In my own opinion, Pratchett was a far superior writer, and also had a far better grasp of, and far more respect for the folklore and mythologies that he riffed on in his books. Sure, he made fun of everything he wrote about, but it was lovingly, and as a bonus he wasn't a bigot of any stripe, but rather used his writing to encourage tolerance, diversity, and understanding between people, regardless of their differences. He wasn't just a great writer, he seems to have been a great human, according to everyone who knew him, and the one time I briefly met him absolutely reinforced this opinion.
I remember reading somewhere a theory that selkies originated from a Spanish shipwreck. People with large dark eyes and black hair emerging from the waves. They said seals stick their heads out of the water and look at people like the survivors of the shipwreck. I don’t know if there is any truth to it. This was the first I had heard of the seal skin boat theory, which I found very interesting.
If I recall correctly, Haakon when he attended a Christmas/Yule celebration, while the people where raising their glasses to give toasts to Odin, Thor and Freyr, he asked them if they could include Jesus, and they did. To me that indicates a certain openness and non-dogmatic view on the beliefs of the time. They weren't Christians, but they didn't mind paying respects to the god of that religion.
On the topic of brownies and clothing, I do recall at least one old tale where a brownie was given a new suit as thanks for his work, and essentially said that now that he has fancy clothes he's too good to be doing work and so left. Still pretty different from a gift of clothes releasing the house elves from slavery, but the little guys were sometimes happy to receive clothing.
That's almost the entire plot to "The Shoemaker and the Elves." Although most versions the elves leave "rejoicing" rather than leaving because they are too proud.
I can actually confirm she got a lot wrong. She was writing based on her memory since she was ejected from our world for violating The Statute of Secrecy. Her real name is Rita Skeeter.
I am actually so incredibly fascinated with the intro explaining Yule. I had an understanding that it may have been connected to christmas but what i really found fascinating was all the traditions we associate with christmas, yknow trees, lights, candy canes etc etc. I recently was shoveled some rather untrue history about all these traditions spawning from a relation to jesus christ, god or the bible. For example. In an uncited fact my grandfather shared at christmas supposedly the reason we have candy canes is because of it being a symbol of the blood of christ and the light of christ. While they were actually, after i researched it, a candy created to keep children quiet. Thats it. Thast all. All this goes to say i really appreciate learning some real concrete facts about the origins of traditions and possibke origins of Christmas and Yule combined. I am glad i stuck around for this video following up my previous questions.
Neat fact about candy canes! I've always used them that way when with my nieces. Now I can tell my sister that I'm not spoiling them, it's traditional!
Most Christmas traditions have some pagan origin. The pagans didn’t mind celebrating the birth of Christ on Yule- which is why the old ways were wiped out bc Christianity kinda took over a good bit of our holidays and practices to convert us or make us go into hiding
Sorry for commenting two minutes in, JK Rowling was not doing anything new for her time or area, but in fact took many of the ideas she is praised for from other British Fantasy authors of her time and earlier. Diana Wynne Jones and Jill Murphy are two British authors who JK Rowling likely read in her childhood and seems to have taken a lot of ideas from. The influence of Diana Wynne Jone's Chrestromanci series is obvious with themes of political control over magic, developing magical powers, magic schooling, the idea of splitting ones soul or lives into physical objects and the use of British folklore. Many of her other books such as Dogsbody, Fire and Hemlock and The Game all focus on the melding of British, primarily Welsh folklore with modern day life and sometimes Greek mythology. Poor Jill Murphy got the hard end of the stick with her magical witching boarding school that was written almost two decades before Harry Potter and is now often reviewed poorly as a Harry Potter knock-off by people who skip the publishing history page in their books. Ursula Le Guin's influence is obvious, though it is hardly fair to criticise anyone for taking influence from the Earthsea series as it is pretty much universally borrowed from by all fantasy and scifi writers since. She isn't British either, but has shaped the landscape so much it would be unfair not to mention her. Susan Cooper and Terry Pratchett are two other authors who's influence is really clearly seen in Harry Potter. This is not to criticise JK Rowling for borrowing elements of others' stories as each one of these author's was inspired by those who came before, with Diana Wynne Jones having been taught by Tolkien himself while he wrote TLOtR and Terry Pratchett's Discworld series initially beginning as a parody of popular fantasy books and poking fun at their tropes. It is however to criticise JK Rowling for taking the praise and credit for these tropes and allowing people to believe they were all her completely original creation. JK Rowling was not doing anything original, unique or mind blowing in British fantasy, nor did she fundamentally change the course of future British fantasy. In fact I would say it has stagnated it and kept us pretty much stuck in the era of 1970s children's fantasy stories. All JK Rowling did was take elements from other, already relatively popular British fantasy books and arrange them in such a way that in the right place and the right time managed to blow up and become a global sensation. Not a small feat, and it took talent, but absolutely not originality. I'll make sure to edit this if it is addressed, but it is something that irrationally annoys me.
@@7ShadowMaiden7 You really going to play the popularity = quality card? Anyway, Diana Wynne Jones wrote Howl's Moving Castle, which I would argue is pretty goddamn fucking famous, and Jill Murphy's Worst Witch series is not by any means obscure. Your own ignorance does not undo their contributions to literature, and you really have absolutely no reason to be in here getting so defensive over perceived slights against Rowling that you feel the need to shit on other authors.
JK Rowling build a series that was perfectly marketable, honestly thats the biggest reason why she was successful, the story is fine, I'll admit she's a decent writer, but ultimately the reason Harry Potter became a smash hit was because it was filled with "wizard product placement" how many things in the Harry Potter world did kids immediately go "i want one". Wands, house branded uniforms, candy, magical objects were always pushed. People LOVE the house system cause people love sorting themselves. I dont know if it was an accident or purposely written for the marketability but im positive thats the biggest reason for its success.
Just as a major note, dwarves were still in the Harry Potter universe, they appear during Chamber of Secrets during Lockhart's Valentines Day stunt with extremely disgruntled dwarves dressed as cupids being sent around to deliver valentines. As a side note, Rowling did end up screwing up with things from other cultures...her thing with the Skinwalkers in her revamp of the Wizarding America for the prequel movies being one of the most idiotic there.
The distinction between dwarves and goblins isn't really present in the Norse and Germanic folklore from which both originate. They're both underground ugly creatures that often get into trouble with humans and have mysterious powers.
Are you sure you aren't talking about dwarves and *elves* ? As I recall, the Aelfr and "dwarves" held most of the same role, and did many similar things (Aelfrheim or whatever you call it was a place of excellent metalworking and magical artificery, Weyland being either a God who was king of the elves, or an Elf-king who was *also* a God)
@@userequaltoNull almost all of what you just said is wrong. Weyland is a human Smith that is kidnapped by a king and forced to make him awesome swords before eventually engineering that king's death. The elves have next to no description at all, and Alfheim is never described. Some stories say that Svartalfheim, the land of the "dark elves" or "black elves" is the same as the dwarven realm, but others don't identify the two together. Alfheim, or Ljossalfheim, the realm of the light elves, isn't associated with the dwarves at all and is really not mentioned much. The depiction of dwarves having beards is entirely from Tolkien. In Norse myth they're said to have been born from maggots feeding on the flesh of Ymir the giant whose corpse was turned into the world (midgard). In English and German myth there's a strong association between dwarves and malevolent actions. In German myth they were said to kidnap children, bring curses, and were called monsters. In English myth they were said to bring fever and disease.
@wintersking4290 I'm not an expert. Where are gobins mentioned at all in Norse Mythology? And, I am sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but I am limited on time and can't read a lot of posts- I generally read a handful and choose which to read, and when to stop. So, I did not read your other post, wherever it may be.
It wasn't just folklore she got wrong. But real things. For example, Kings Cross platforms 9 and 10 dont share an island, I love the idea of a hidden platform, but theres no where to get to it at Kings Cross (She claims she got the idea from Euston, where she was, but that doesn't have a 9 and 10 sharing either, St Pancras however, where they filmed the scenes in the film, does). And the Hogwarts Castle (The Loco) is a 1930s GWR Locomotive, but she says it was "borrowed" from Crewe works in the 1830s. Crewe works didn't exist then, and the engine is far too modern. Yes these are all trains facts.
Omg yes because most house elves DON’T want clothes and freedom, and they’re offended if you bring it up to them. Or at least when Hermione keeps harping on about it
Winky is the only example of a house elf not wanting to be freed that we see (and she clearly had deep seeded problems from before she was freed that manifested afterwards). The only other reference to house elves being insulted by the idea of freedom is stated by someone who is not a house elf.
The difference is that the real Brownies had free will. If they were disrespected they could turn into boggarts and fight back. Instead, house elves get physically punished and are magically unable to rebel if they ever wanted to. I think that’s a huge difference. In the Harry Potter world it was also clear that some house elves DID want freedom, so her confusion is understandable. The Harry Potter house elves did not have the agency or free will to choose. Brownies weren’t trapped, they cleaned in exchange for food, and if they weren’t paid they’d throw a fit.
Harry and Hermione visit a church on Christmas (the graveyard). Harry is baptized on Epiphany (the blessing of the waters) before literally sacrificing his own life to protect those close to him and strip he who must not be named of his power after a brief reunion with Dumbledore at the apropos named King's cross station. Harry Potter is a Christmas movie confirmed.
Looking back, I can blatantly see the influence of C.S Lewis & Tolkein on Rowling. Which isn't a bad thing. However, i personally find their deep mythology to be far more compelling than harry potter.
J.K. Rowling had something right: Her Wizarding World was not exclusive to an individual Belief. We have a Christmas Tree And burn a Yule Goat every Yule. We know where these traditions come from; but Belief has nothing to do with our traditions. They are fun family activities. Make something fun, a game, a story, and it'll live forever! Even if "Religion" is lacking from these traditions, so are Bias and discrimination
Hello, I'm from Iceland and I think you're doing very well in saying the Icelandic names and knowing our Christmas and folk customs 😊 Thanks for a very entertaining and informative video
I’d guess, if it’s true Haakon ordered Yule to be celebrated on Christmas, then as Scandinavia became more Christian, they kept the name even though they dropped the animal sacrifice. Entirely guessing, though.
The Supernatural references in your videos are such a highlight for me😂 your videos are already fantastic, but including callbacks and references to my favorite show really makes my day lol
The thing about Harry Potter, is that it's not a typical Fantasy. It's a YA mystery series, in the vaine of Nacy Drew and the Hardy Boys (although better written then those), with a Low Fantasy skin.
Oh...OH! "Here we are Wasseling" That makes so much sense now. You solved a question I've had but never asked. I love this channel. Bless you lads, Happy New Years!
I admit I do not watch Goblet of Fire often, not my fave, but I could have sworn they were merpeople that lived in the Black Lake, not Selkies. Also, thought you would go into the Boggarts thing more since they are in the movie (Prisoner of Azkaban) vs myth.
The description in the book definitely says freshwater merfolk... The one in the stained glass window in the prefect's bathroom was supposed to be a saltwater mermaid.
Yeah, but we live in an age of "Rowling says random shit on the Internet and that's just canon now." Two days ago (at time of writing), it was the four-year anniversary of Rowling taking to the Internet and announcing to the world that wizards used to shit themselves and magic away the evidence, to the horror and confusion of supporters and detractors alike. There's probably a Twitter or Pottermore post somewhere that Lore Lodge got the "The Goblet fishmen were actually selkies" thing from.
Warner Brothers copyright claims everything they can. So don't feel bad. They even copyrighted MeatCanyon's parody of bugs bunny, who was a struggling serial rapist. Thus officially making it canon.
My last name is Potter, and when the first book came out, I was asked “are you related to Harry?” constantly. It was so bad, I ended up fucking hating Rowling for choosing that last name out of all the other English surnames in existence. Of course, I don’t still have those feelings, but it still gets annoying getting asked if I’m Harry’s brother or something.
i do really wish this touched on where exactly rowling got inspiration to make goblins bankers who hoard gold, eerie long fingers, and hooked noses...aside from that, rowling doesn't just use anglo-saxon mythology, even before she started using indigenous american mythology as her playground for her new movies and turning voldemorts snake into a monstrous enslaved indonesian woman for "diversity win!", she pulled from eastern european mythologies, as well as snippets of west and east asia, and usually gave them the selkie treatment of slapping a more recognizable name onto whatever she wanted it to be. i will say, her portrayals and biases are all very exceedingly english of her lmfao. basically, people are not only disavowing her because of her ideas about gender. on the topic of goblins again, interestingly, redcaps do exist in her universe and they're just as brutal (mostly via the video games and bestiary); i'd love to see a closer look at her fantastic beasts bestiary book as that's where a lot of the lore around "her" creatures is detailed, for comparison to more real world myths.
Just a thought-the selkie could be an adaptation of the Norse tradition of shapeshifters using wolf skins to change into wolves. The selkie could be an adaption of this tradition to feature “sea wolves”, aka seals.
As a long-time Harry Potter nerd, I do not recall any mention of selkies in the books. (I did coincidentally see The Secret of Roan Inish.) I truly did enjoy this background look at the lore used by Rowling in the series, even if it did hurt my ears to hear your pronunciation of Rowling to rhyme with cowling, when it actually rhymes with bowling.
Do a lore lodge on the accuracy of how angels look in today's media eye and how they are actually depicted in the Bible and other biblical texts plus what movies or shows have used them form there original depictions
In the scriptures, angels are generally depicted as attractive men when they materialize on earth. During the forty years in the wilderness, Michael the Archangel appeared as a large pillar of smoke or fire that would lead them to where they should go. The idea of "Biblically accurate angels" is a reference to how Ezekiel describes them as appearing in the spiritual realm, which isn't really all that interesting considering we don't inhabit the spiritual realm. My point is, if an angel showed up to deliver a message to you, he would probably look like Ben Afleck or Matt Damon.
@@tonyfriendly4409 You got that right. the "Biblically accurate angel" meme is about Seraphim who never come to Earth. The angels that do just look like people.
I would enjoy a series of vids on myths and legends in Canada....starting from one coast and going across the country. Every province has a rich resource in myths and legends.
Amazing job! I love your story-telling ability. I even listen to your history lessons, even though it's never been a strength of mine. Thanks, and I'm completely new to your podcasts; I just found you today (I've watched two of your true crimes as well). Have you done one on Tolkien yet?
There is 1 major, major problem I can already see: Rowling did draw on other authors, heavily. Tons of people have written at length about the books that she obviously and blatantly ripped off. She just *claimed* in interviews that she drew on folklore and came up with all of it herself. Which shows, because the parts she didn't blatantly rip off from other smaller fantasy books are completely nonsensical and wrong. Same for all the worldbuilding that she didn't rip off. She has done a really, really good job at keeping this hidden even as her reputation has tanked. The Worst Witch by Jill Murphy is the big one, though she's been sued multiple times by multiple different authors over this. It wouldn't be that bad if she'd just admit it, most authors freely talk about how they draw inspiration and borrow ideas from other books. It is the fact that she tries to pretend otherwise that sucks and is wrong. Edit: Pretty sure the stories about women disappearing with their Selkie husbands is just people trying to have wishful thinking about women who probably drowned.
She was sued once and she won and the court even found the person trying to sue guilty of lying to the court and lost the case completely. She can't even claim jkr stole from her anymore. The whole transcript is available online if you want to read the courts finding. It's super interesting
@@Kaloufie Most of the accusations never went to court, and everyone knows that civil courts are about how much money you can spend on lawyers rather any kind of justice.
JK Rowling does appropriate creatures and lore from outside her cultural background though. If you go on her website, she talks about Wendigos in her lore about North American wizards. I think there was also creatures mentioned in her articles on Asia and Africa too.
there's also a history of the british heavily oppressing the irish as well (i think the famine is really the best example) and celtic folklore is tied to ireland (as well as other regions in europe!). additionally seamus finnigan (irish character) is a TERRIBLE stereotype. and yes, you're right about the way that pretty much every other continent is treated. the american wizarding school uses names from indigenous folklore for their houses, all of her asian characters (the patils and cho chang) have very little care put towards them and are essentially walking racial stereotypes, and if i remember right, the african wizardry school sends out their acceptances to students via rocks. which isnt necessarily bad but the way that northwestern culture views africa makes it.. weird! ADDITIONALLY (sorry, this is a super long comment, but i unfortunately know a lot about harry potter and at this point highly dislike it) goblins in harry potter very closely comply with antisemitic caricatures & the game which recently came out is about a goblin rebellion (who in universe are treated as second class citizens) and very closely matches fearmongering tales about jewish people throughout history, and house elves in the books are portrayed as enjoying being essentially enslaved, which does not make it into the movies (thank god, really.) in the end rowling is a white woman who wanted to write something cool but did not have any respect for cultures outside of her own. it sucks, really, because harry potter was really important to me and a LOT of people i know in my youth and it was supposed to promote an idea of equality (see blood status as a conflict in the series), but you can't tote around the theme of equality when a lot of your worldbuilding and side character work is bigoted garbage. tl;dr, yeah jkr absolutely appropriated stuff and disrespected other cultures
A girl in my school said I looked like Harry Potter I was insulted and honestly took it as a racist comment as not all white boys with brown hair look the same I Don't even have glasses It was also a black girl that said it Racism works both ways
The one thing I love most about lore lodge videos is the quick history lesson on each topic as I find it adds more perspective on the subject as opposed to just talking about the subject matter and not the history behind it. Especially when it comes to native american tribes as I find living in Canada our school taught us nothing on the indigenous cultures who live here and have learned more from the history lessons provided by lore lodge as I did in school.
I'm all for clowning on Jowling, because she honestly does deserve it, but that one _was_ the work of the movies, the book version isn't particularly associated with anything besides being one of the characters that buys into the smear campaign against Harry in Book 5. Most of the rest of the extremely suspect things in the series are all on her though.
Appreciate you diving into the murky/currently controversial waters of Yule and giving us the evidence that does exist. Also appreciate the old Greg reference 😂
@@NealBones I can't understand the arrogance it takes for someone to claim to know more about the lore of a book than the actual author. Why is J.K Rowling controversial?
Because she didn't create these creatures, she took them from other cultures and adapted them. If I write a book where I include gryphons and I make them weird, scaly, firebreathing lizards then the fact that I'm writing the book doesn't mean I haven't just written a dragon and called it something else. As for why Rowling's controversial... she needed to get off the Internet a long, long time ago. Putting aside all the politics (because that's a minefield I don't feel like wading into tonight), two days ago (as of writing this), it was the fourth anniversary of Rowling declaring to the world that Wizards used to shit themselves and magic away the evidence. At that point, just get off the Twitter, please, for the sake of everyone else that likes the things you write.
@@williammurray7453she used word association to name everything and badly translated words for the names of the foreign wizard schools. She's wasn't exactly straining herself when
I was watching this while cleaning mostly zoned out during the Yule rant that I completely forgot this was a Harry Potter video until you said it and I got whiplash
I know the video would never happen because the series is a little too obscure, but you should look into the fablehaven series if you want to see some surprisingly accurate (to my recollection) depictions of different creatures of myth. That series is actually how I know about brownies and they’re nearly exactly as described in the video
When I first saw the movies I was like "Ah yes, goblins are critters that like and hoard gold the same way dragons do. Very clever to have them be in charge of the banks in this world because of their natural affinity for it." Nothing else ever crossed my mind until years later when people started telling on themselves by saying the goblins made them think of Jewish people. That's a you problem, baby.
I think it’s also kinda of admirable that Rowling knows so much of obscure folklore and myths at the time she wrote. Remember, Internet wasn’t a thing yet, so she did have to go out of her way and go to libraries, buy books and talk with older people and stuff to know the stuff. For us today, it’s a click away.
The issue you're running into with her not really utilizing the lore of the creatures she used for her story is she was too busy trying to fit cultural and ethnic stereotypes in against specific people groups.
I was so baffled by how interesting that christmas yule bit was that I completely forgot I was watching a video about Harry Potter lmao Gonna look for some more history videos of yours now
There is no "problem" with Harry Potter ever discussed. JKR was writing fiction, not a peer-reviewed journal article on the history of mythology. Of course she played with the mythos in a creative way. She could have coined new terms for all of her versions of magical creatures, but it was a wise choice to build upon terms which children were likely to already know.
Shaman of the Carpathian Mountains hung the psychedelic Amanita Muscaria fungi 🍄 (Fly Agaric) from conifers in order to dry them (in an attempt to convert the neurotoxin “ibotenic acid” to “muscimol”). The fungi have a vivid red cap with white dots 🍄 (
Surprised you didn't mention that Harry Potter is suspiciously similar to one of Neil Gaiman's works. Look it up, the cover images are even super similar. Gaiman said she didn't intentionally plagiarize because if she did she would have changed more details, which I think is maybe overthinking it...
I like your funny words lore man
Remember, nothing bad happens to a Kennedy.
@@fireraider98unless it involves a car.
@@Mr.Janitor🏢🔫🛻🤯
@@imurgodsgod🏢🙋♂️🔫🖼🙋♂️🔫💥🚗🤯🤫🤫🤫
@@JudahMaccabiusPerish, emoji movie.
The Harry Potter series was one of the only books I've ever attended a midnight release for. Of course, I was working a job a stone's throw from the book store and started work at 10pm with a break at about 1am so it was convenient but I was there!
Funny story involving "Goblet of Fire". My younger daughter was reading that while my oldest was reading Piers Anthony's "With a Tangled Skein". I had previously read both and if you know anything about them, both have a character named Cedric and in both (what are the odds???) Cedric is murdered.
So when my older daughter said to me "I can't believe this? Why did Cedric get murdered?" I naturally responded without thinking and said "Well, it's not like Voldemort had a use for him."
While my oldest just looked at me in confusion, my youngest lowered her book and gave me a look that any book lover who doesn't like spoilers would recognize.
Oops. Lol
This is actually so funny because I was reading Piers Anthony at the age most of my friends were reading Harry Potter
@TheLoreLodge my kids were 9 and 12 at the time. They're now 30 and 33. The whole bunch of you make me feel old, lol.
I loved that my kids got hooked on series. Anthony was great, so many series and Xanth was great even for a young reader (mostly, lol. IYKYK).
@@TheLoreLodge yo what's the deal with the edits where there are multiple clips in a row where you basically say the same thing? Just wondering if it's something you're missing
(not hating, I really appreciate this channel)
@@NecroChungus sometimes there’s just a mistake in the editing process where multiple takes made it in
@@TheLoreLodge I feel the need to point out that... Tolkein's "Dwarves" were... essentially made up by Tolkein. He drew inspiration from Norse folklore, but the closest thing in Norse Folklore was Svartalfr.... who are actually Black Elves. Svartalfr are often highly skilled craftsmen as they're often multiple centuries old... and they can be found in mines underground.
If you want something really weird to read up on.... The difference between Losalfr and Svartalfr is easy, Light Elves vs Black Elves. The wrinkle is there's also Myrkalfr.... "Shadow Elves"... we don't have enough on them to know how they fit in with the other two.
It's not a Lore Lodge video if one doesn't forget during all the "detours" that they're listening to a video on _Harry Potter_
I would love a deeper dive on the beasts of Harry Potter vs their real/mythical origins!!
I agree so fascinating need more
I second the motion!
3rd
Please
Harry Potter series will bring in viewers, let's not lie. Great bate Titles.
Aiden there is mention of the witch trials in the Books... first year... history of magic... talked about how the witch trials barley caught an real witches and the ones that were caught just preformed a charm on themselves to prevent themselves from burning alives. Theres even a mention of a certain wizard who liked the feeling of the flames so much he got caught many times.
Third book but yes came here to comment this!
I think it was a witch, not a wizard who liked being caught. Can't remember her name though.
Wendlilin the Weird or whatever their name was
@@iwouldcryifihademotions6966came back to say this.
@@lucieirl ok and what class was it history of magic? idk i feel like it was a female prof who talked about it but i honestly cant place it lol.
Selkies were a euphemistic way to explain why your spouse had ran off.
"My darling Sheila, a selkie she was. Found her skin and returned to the depths. Such a fair and treacherous creature."
"Aye damn those wretched selkies! Me own wife, Mary, was lured into the waves by a he-selkie."
Mind if I have a soirce for that? I'm writing fantasy so I'd like as many sources as I can get.
@@Ami-jc2oo sorry, I don't have much of a source since this is just what I've heard growing up. I'm Scottish and Welsh on my dad's side.
That's putting a modern lens on it. Women were not allowed to just run off in those times. More like the guys killed their wives then said that.
@@Ami-jc2ooIt is not hard to see how the legends surrounding the seal people came to be so prevalent in coastal communities. Duncan Williamson eloquently explained it:
‘[T]he importance of the silkie is its part in the Other World or after-life. For instance, if you were a fisherman and you lived with your daddy in a little croft by the seaside, and you had your brother, your grandfather or your uncle lost at sea; what would you do if their body was not found? […] But if you thought for one instant that [he] never returned because he had joined the seal people, he’d become one of them; then how would you feel? […] Now this is the legend. That’s why it was told. To make people feel comforted if their loved ones were never found. They probably joined the seal people, became seal folk. And you’ll see them again.’1
@@purplepurple8179 Just because it wasn't "allowed" didn't mean it didn't happen
This is a good video but they do address witch trials and persecution, it’s said that if they ever did catch a real witch or wizard they would cast a spell and just get tickled by fire then disapparate so it still makes sense in the series I think they said one guy was like addicted to getting caught
At least it makes sense in the series why they would consider witch trials much of a major event
Wendolyn the weird, wasn't it?
Those witch trails were later then the time period he was researching
It was a witch not a wizard who enjoyed getting caught over and over
I don't think that anyone expected Harry Potter to provide an authentic take on mythology or folklore. It was just taking advantage of cultural familiarity to serve a story; some of it being well done and others not so much.
The valentine dwarves were hilarious.
I like how Rowling tried to avoid some of the common fantasy tropes and do new takes on it. Even if I'm not sure the end result is good, I know that trying to be "faithful to the myths" only goes so far.
@@marhawkman303 Thing is: barely anyone knows the actual myths anymore.
While I'm not opposed to taking inspiration from them and then turning it into your own thing - which by the way is what Tolkien did - we no longer are anywhere close to authentic mythology.
When something becomes popular, it soon becomes the mainstream.
It's just a shame when we forget the origins.
@@hans-christianbauer5947 That is true. But it helps some when people don't just copy pop-culture mythology takes.
The dwarves were the best.
I think a deep dive into the Spider Wick Chronicles would be really neat to see, that series always felt like it pulled more from actual myth in comparison to Harry Potter.
Ah! A fellow Spiderwick lover! When the fantastic beasts series came out I was like "I'm sorry the only field guide I respect in this house was authored by Arthur Spiderwick."
loved the spiderwick chronicles as a kid, someone got me the box set in the middle of my hp obsessed phase since it was vaguely similar. this comment made me remember i still have it somewhere on my shelf and i should reread it, so thanks :)
Spider Wick Chronicles is literally the only movie my daughter made us leave the theater maybe 20 minutes in, it scared her silly for whatever reason. I wonder if she’d watch it, now that she’s 22😂
I loved the Spiderwick chronicles as a kid, it's been the first time since then that I've seen/heard someone talk about it.
Please do this Aidan
i just want to mention that if anyone is interested in selkies, i would highly recommend the movie "the secret of roan inish" which heavily involves the lore. great movie.
For YEARS I have been trying to find the name of this movie. It was a true favorite of mine as a child, thank you so much!!
@@JKS0186 omgosh, mine too! I'm glad I could help you find it again!
In HP the Statute of Secrecy was put into place in the 1700s because of the witch hunts of earlier centuries. These violent actions were mentioned throughout the series usually when the characters are in History of Magic class.
PS Bogarts and Redcaps are part of the HP lore, though Redcaps are only mentioned in the books.
Oh yeah, I had an itch in my mind saying that the entire reason the Wizarding world was secret is to keep the population safe from witch hunts. Maybe not that one Aiden mentioned specifically, but in general.
Redcaps are mentioned for like one second in the HP 3 movie by Hermione
@@rue...whenwasthis not a major plot element, but a thing that exists.
@@marhawkman303 okay? i was just commenting casue this person said that redcaps are only mentioned in the books which is factually wrong as they are mentioned in the movies.
@@rue...whenwasthis oh, right, ok then.
as someone who never read he book and only thoroughly watched the movies once ortwice but is very big on folklore, I think it speaks volumes I never realized the "selkies" were selkies. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT. But that aside it is cool (and good) to see some hsitorcial art and logs of the other influences of things in the world. I'm also glad we're talking about how weird the trend of calling everything a skinwalker was
Crazily enough, Redcaps exist in the Harry Potter universe, but to my knowledge are only seen in like, one mobile game and Lego Harry Potter Years 1-4 (practically all the dark forest levels have them, and they are Quite Odd). They are mentioned in the core bookseries tho, I remember in Prisoner of Azkaban (both the book and the peak movie), Hermione mentions that Lupin was teaching students about them (and whatever the hell a Hinkypunk is) when Snape tries to expose Lupin as a werewolf in a totally professional way.
A hinkypunk is a "real" creature (as in: it exists in lore outside of HP) that tries to lure wanderers into moors. In German we simply call them Irrlicht (irren = to be on the wrong path, Licht = light), the most common English term seems to be will-o'-the-wisp. It's essentially the same thing that Frodo ecounters on the way to Mordor. Scientificically, it could be gases produced in moors & marshland that give off an eerie, greenish glow at night. But admittedly, a creature with a little lantern is more interesting 😅
they're fought as enemies in the Prisoner of Azkaban GBA game in various locations among a whole other host of creatures whose info you compile into a bestiary that tells you which spells are most/least effective against them in a sort of Pokémon-esque gameplay
I feel like there is something that you missed and maybe might like to hear about: When you said JK didn't take a concept from a different culture and create a new lore... she absolutely did.
My descriptions are going off the top of my head so forgive any mistakes, but: in the books and wiki, Veela are described as beautiful women with hair that shines like moonlight until you anger them. When angered, they turn into horrific birdlike monsters that can throw fire hands at you. When they are humans they are so beautiful that people will do anything to get close to them. Fleur Weasley née Delacour is actually a part-Veela, as is her younger sister Gabrielle.
Harry Potter Veela are specifically mentioned as originating from Bulgaria, I think.
Now, if you look at folklore, there are some very close similarities to the Slavic víla (pronounced almost the same way as Veela, which is a very clever adaptation of the name to get the point across to English readers,). I am Slovak and like the majority of my modern brethren, am Catholic, so I don't understand the víla's original folklore besides being the word in my language for MAID(en) or FAIRY. I think a lot of stories mention them give them connections to nature like water, forests, and flowers - they are often found in forests or near water. I think Rusalka might be a víla (specifically a vodná víla or water maid) but I am not familiar with her story so I can't say. But again I don't know many specifics about víla because I was never told any serious stories about them, just the concept of a víla as a pretty nature-dwelling young woman.
The word víla also comes in for our word for mermaid: morská víla, which directly translated would be ocean maid.
There are also many Slavic languages and I don't know their equivalent names and stories for víla so these were just my experiences with them. I'm happy to hear about others if anyone knows them!!
I said all of this because I would love a deep dive on the other cultures and folk tales JK Rowling used (because learning is fun) but I understand if you're uninterested or don't have the time.
You make an excellent point. I also remember JK Rowling presenting more magical schools with details borrowed/stolen from other cultural traditions in the lead up to 'Fantastic Beasts.' Specifically, the American Wizarding school Ilvermorny had a history that uses indigenous myth ideas.
You can definitely read up more about them on wikipedia, but I would also appreciate if Aiden would do a deep dive in some of this. It would be hard though as most sources are in one slavic language or another.
As far as I found on the wiki, all these Veelas are basically nature spirits, all named one way or another. Specifically in Russian/Ukrainian folklore there might be a confusion between benign and malevolent spirits. As sometimes Mavkas (forest spirits) are described as evil spirits that form after the death of a young child that didn't get christened. But there is an Ukrainian animation with the Mavka as a main character, not very evil at all. Mavka can also be a version of Navka in other slavic languages, but in Russian specifically (and apparently in some other slavic culturesas well) Navi are evil spirits of the dead that died an unnatural death.
Then there are the Samodivas - the Vilas, who in Bulgarian folklore are basically benevolent fairies who help the heroes on their journey. Samodivas also appear to be confused with another kind of Russian fairy/spirit of River sirens, and after the 19th century they were just called Rusalka, which today means mermaid. Like the Little Mermaid by H.C. Andersen but in fact aren't anything alike at all. So in the end we have Veela, Rusalka/Mermaid/Selkie, then the plethora of nature spirits from forests, rivers, oceans and mountains.
In that sense, any and all spirits, that follow the pagan traditions would be grouped together and called evil, because they were aiming to replace the local beliefs with the Christian myths.
@@arnaeri9290the animated film is based on a fairy drama written and published in 1911, one which was groundbreaking in how it gave a Mavka agency and personhood since up to that point in Central and Eastern Ukraine, Mavky were traditionally warded off alongside Rusalki during the Pentecost season which was previously designated as "Rusalki week". The author, Lesya Ukrainka, drew upon her own personal knowledge of the Polissya region's local folklore (her being from Volyn) to craft the story and The Forest Song has its own analog in its predecessor, Dvořàk's Rusalka opera, making them both successors to H.C.A.'s The Little Mermaid.
@@wayfaringspacepoet is there a way I can read that online?
Fleur was French. You are mixing her with with Victor Krum and the other Durmstrang students who were Bulgarian.
33:37
Fun fact. In Russian language the words Волшебник and Ведьма (corresponding to Wizard and Witch respectively) are also deliniated with one being more focused on practicing supernatural and the other about just being wise. But they are revered. The feminine Ведьма is about wisdom with roots coming from Ведать - archaic for Know. And Волшебникis rooted in Волшебство which is a term for magic.
So one thing you got wrong about the yulelads is they start coming on the 11th because the 25th is when the Christmas Cat comes. Literally watched this on my way back from Reykjavík.
I would love to see your take on the Discworld. Because Pratchett was a far better writer
Agreee to disagree haha
That's exactly what I was thinking watching the video. Not only was Sir Terry a wonderful writer who created an amazing universe, but he had a deep understanding of folklore. "The Folklore of Discworld", written with Jacqueline Simpson explores a wide range of the myths and tales he incorporated into the Discworld.
Both are equally good
@@DrLotko I was just about to recommend both Sir Terry's writing, and "The Folklore of Discworld" when I read this comment! In my own opinion, Pratchett was a far superior writer, and also had a far better grasp of, and far more respect for the folklore and mythologies that he riffed on in his books. Sure, he made fun of everything he wrote about, but it was lovingly, and as a bonus he wasn't a bigot of any stripe, but rather used his writing to encourage tolerance, diversity, and understanding between people, regardless of their differences. He wasn't just a great writer, he seems to have been a great human, according to everyone who knew him, and the one time I briefly met him absolutely reinforced this opinion.
Better writer and person
I remember reading somewhere a theory that selkies originated from a Spanish shipwreck. People with large dark eyes and black hair emerging from the waves. They said seals stick their heads out of the water and look at people like the survivors of the shipwreck. I don’t know if there is any truth to it. This was the first I had heard of the seal skin boat theory, which I found very interesting.
100 points to Mattis for the Supernatural reference ❤
If I recall correctly, Haakon when he attended a Christmas/Yule celebration, while the people where raising their glasses to give toasts to Odin, Thor and Freyr, he asked them if they could include Jesus, and they did. To me that indicates a certain openness and non-dogmatic view on the beliefs of the time. They weren't Christians, but they didn't mind paying respects to the god of that religion.
On the topic of brownies and clothing, I do recall at least one old tale where a brownie was given a new suit as thanks for his work, and essentially said that now that he has fancy clothes he's too good to be doing work and so left. Still pretty different from a gift of clothes releasing the house elves from slavery, but the little guys were sometimes happy to receive clothing.
probably depends on how much the like the gift?
That's almost the entire plot to "The Shoemaker and the Elves." Although most versions the elves leave "rejoicing" rather than leaving because they are too proud.
I can actually confirm she got a lot wrong. She was writing based on her memory since she was ejected from our world for violating The Statute of Secrecy. Her real name is Rita Skeeter.
Hey, a deep dive into the Arthurian legends would be awesome. Love your channel! Keep doing what you do 😃
Oooh, yes, the Arthurian Tales would be an excellent topic to take a closer look at!
I am actually so incredibly fascinated with the intro explaining Yule. I had an understanding that it may have been connected to christmas but what i really found fascinating was all the traditions we associate with christmas, yknow trees, lights, candy canes etc etc. I recently was shoveled some rather untrue history about all these traditions spawning from a relation to jesus christ, god or the bible. For example. In an uncited fact my grandfather shared at christmas supposedly the reason we have candy canes is because of it being a symbol of the blood of christ and the light of christ. While they were actually, after i researched it, a candy created to keep children quiet. Thats it. Thast all. All this goes to say i really appreciate learning some real concrete facts about the origins of traditions and possibke origins of Christmas and Yule combined. I am glad i stuck around for this video following up my previous questions.
Neat fact about candy canes! I've always used them that way when with my nieces. Now I can tell my sister that I'm not spoiling them, it's traditional!
Most Christmas traditions have some pagan origin. The pagans didn’t mind celebrating the birth of Christ on Yule- which is why the old ways were wiped out bc Christianity kinda took over a good bit of our holidays and practices to convert us or make us go into hiding
Sorry for commenting two minutes in, JK Rowling was not doing anything new for her time or area, but in fact took many of the ideas she is praised for from other British Fantasy authors of her time and earlier.
Diana Wynne Jones and Jill Murphy are two British authors who JK Rowling likely read in her childhood and seems to have taken a lot of ideas from. The influence of Diana Wynne Jone's Chrestromanci series is obvious with themes of political control over magic, developing magical powers, magic schooling, the idea of splitting ones soul or lives into physical objects and the use of British folklore. Many of her other books such as Dogsbody, Fire and Hemlock and The Game all focus on the melding of British, primarily Welsh folklore with modern day life and sometimes Greek mythology.
Poor Jill Murphy got the hard end of the stick with her magical witching boarding school that was written almost two decades before Harry Potter and is now often reviewed poorly as a Harry Potter knock-off by people who skip the publishing history page in their books.
Ursula Le Guin's influence is obvious, though it is hardly fair to criticise anyone for taking influence from the Earthsea series as it is pretty much universally borrowed from by all fantasy and scifi writers since. She isn't British either, but has shaped the landscape so much it would be unfair not to mention her.
Susan Cooper and Terry Pratchett are two other authors who's influence is really clearly seen in Harry Potter.
This is not to criticise JK Rowling for borrowing elements of others' stories as each one of these author's was inspired by those who came before, with Diana Wynne Jones having been taught by Tolkien himself while he wrote TLOtR and Terry Pratchett's Discworld series initially beginning as a parody of popular fantasy books and poking fun at their tropes. It is however to criticise JK Rowling for taking the praise and credit for these tropes and allowing people to believe they were all her completely original creation. JK Rowling was not doing anything original, unique or mind blowing in British fantasy, nor did she fundamentally change the course of future British fantasy. In fact I would say it has stagnated it and kept us pretty much stuck in the era of 1970s children's fantasy stories.
All JK Rowling did was take elements from other, already relatively popular British fantasy books and arrange them in such a way that in the right place and the right time managed to blow up and become a global sensation. Not a small feat, and it took talent, but absolutely not originality.
I'll make sure to edit this if it is addressed, but it is something that irrationally annoys me.
She did itbetter than those. That's the point.
@@kentjensen4504 Have you read all these authors that you know she did it better?
@@HuntingVioletswouldn’t those authors be more famous if their books were true classics?
@@7ShadowMaiden7 You really going to play the popularity = quality card? Anyway, Diana Wynne Jones wrote Howl's Moving Castle, which I would argue is pretty goddamn fucking famous, and Jill Murphy's Worst Witch series is not by any means obscure. Your own ignorance does not undo their contributions to literature, and you really have absolutely no reason to be in here getting so defensive over perceived slights against Rowling that you feel the need to shit on other authors.
JK Rowling build a series that was perfectly marketable, honestly thats the biggest reason why she was successful, the story is fine, I'll admit she's a decent writer, but ultimately the reason Harry Potter became a smash hit was because it was filled with "wizard product placement" how many things in the Harry Potter world did kids immediately go "i want one". Wands, house branded uniforms, candy, magical objects were always pushed. People LOVE the house system cause people love sorting themselves. I dont know if it was an accident or purposely written for the marketability but im positive thats the biggest reason for its success.
You forgot the Boggarts in the books and movie! The shapeshifters who take on what you fear the most!
“She relied on regional folklore rather than other authors to create her fantasy realm."
You should check out The Books of Magic by Neil Gaiman
You mentioned Brownies and Boggards. Is that where the saying Brownie points comes from? Staying on their good side.
Came here for the Harry Potter bait... stayed for the deep dive into Pagan Anglo-Saxon lore
Just as a major note, dwarves were still in the Harry Potter universe, they appear during Chamber of Secrets during Lockhart's Valentines Day stunt with extremely disgruntled dwarves dressed as cupids being sent around to deliver valentines.
As a side note, Rowling did end up screwing up with things from other cultures...her thing with the Skinwalkers in her revamp of the Wizarding America for the prequel movies being one of the most idiotic there.
The distinction between dwarves and goblins isn't really present in the Norse and Germanic folklore from which both originate. They're both underground ugly creatures that often get into trouble with humans and have mysterious powers.
Are you sure you aren't talking about dwarves and *elves* ? As I recall, the Aelfr and "dwarves" held most of the same role, and did many similar things (Aelfrheim or whatever you call it was a place of excellent metalworking and magical artificery, Weyland being either a God who was king of the elves, or an Elf-king who was *also* a God)
I don't think so. Dwarves are pretty important and intelligent in Norse mythology. And they are often in contact with the gods, at least.
@@userequaltoNull almost all of what you just said is wrong. Weyland is a human Smith that is kidnapped by a king and forced to make him awesome swords before eventually engineering that king's death.
The elves have next to no description at all, and Alfheim is never described. Some stories say that Svartalfheim, the land of the "dark elves" or "black elves" is the same as the dwarven realm, but others don't identify the two together. Alfheim, or Ljossalfheim, the realm of the light elves, isn't associated with the dwarves at all and is really not mentioned much.
The depiction of dwarves having beards is entirely from Tolkien. In Norse myth they're said to have been born from maggots feeding on the flesh of Ymir the giant whose corpse was turned into the world (midgard). In English and German myth there's a strong association between dwarves and malevolent actions. In German myth they were said to kidnap children, bring curses, and were called monsters. In English myth they were said to bring fever and disease.
@@TTerilee 1. goblins aren't unintelligent.
2. See second post below
@wintersking4290 I'm not an expert. Where are gobins mentioned at all in Norse Mythology? And, I am sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but I am limited on time and can't read a lot of posts- I generally read a handful and choose which to read, and when to stop. So, I did not read your other post, wherever it may be.
It wasn't just folklore she got wrong. But real things. For example, Kings Cross platforms 9 and 10 dont share an island, I love the idea of a hidden platform, but theres no where to get to it at Kings Cross (She claims she got the idea from Euston, where she was, but that doesn't have a 9 and 10 sharing either, St Pancras however, where they filmed the scenes in the film, does). And the Hogwarts Castle (The Loco) is a 1930s GWR Locomotive, but she says it was "borrowed" from Crewe works in the 1830s. Crewe works didn't exist then, and the engine is far too modern.
Yes these are all trains facts.
TRAIN FACTS!
Don't mess with train facts!
A story set in the Harry Potter universe that was about everyday wizards would be fun to watch for me.
I could totally see a "what we do in the shadows" type show like this
Yes, an author took artistic license... Not surprising. I will say, she never uses the term "selkie" she definitely uses the term "merpeople"
Exactly.
I'm in the process of rereading the books and she definitely doesn't mention selkies.
Omg yes because most house elves DON’T want clothes and freedom, and they’re offended if you bring it up to them. Or at least when Hermione keeps harping on about it
Winky is the only example of a house elf not wanting to be freed that we see (and she clearly had deep seeded problems from before she was freed that manifested afterwards). The only other reference to house elves being insulted by the idea of freedom is stated by someone who is not a house elf.
The difference is that the real Brownies had free will. If they were disrespected they could turn into boggarts and fight back. Instead, house elves get physically punished and are magically unable to rebel if they ever wanted to. I think that’s a huge difference. In the Harry Potter world it was also clear that some house elves DID want freedom, so her confusion is understandable. The Harry Potter house elves did not have the agency or free will to choose. Brownies weren’t trapped, they cleaned in exchange for food, and if they weren’t paid they’d throw a fit.
Harry and Hermione visit a church on Christmas (the graveyard). Harry is baptized on Epiphany (the blessing of the waters) before literally sacrificing his own life to protect those close to him and strip he who must not be named of his power after a brief reunion with Dumbledore at the apropos named King's cross station.
Harry Potter is a Christmas movie confirmed.
Looking back,
I can blatantly see the influence of C.S Lewis & Tolkein on Rowling.
Which isn't a bad thing.
However, i personally find their deep mythology to be far more compelling than harry potter.
I see it less that she got things wrong and more she put a, at the time, a fresh new spin on preexisting material
J.K. Rowling had something right: Her Wizarding World was not exclusive to an individual Belief. We have a Christmas Tree And burn a Yule Goat every Yule. We know where these traditions come from; but Belief has nothing to do with our traditions. They are fun family activities. Make something fun, a game, a story, and it'll live forever! Even if "Religion" is lacking from these traditions, so are Bias and discrimination
Hello, I'm from Iceland and I think you're doing very well in saying the Icelandic names and knowing our Christmas and folk customs 😊 Thanks for a very entertaining and informative video
In Sweden the Word for Christmas is Jul and have a similar sound to Yule and in most Nordic countries we celebrate Christmas on December 24.
I’d guess, if it’s true Haakon ordered Yule to be celebrated on Christmas, then as Scandinavia became more Christian, they kept the name even though they dropped the animal sacrifice. Entirely guessing, though.
TIL that Helga & Olga Pataki are sisters with basically the same name. Love your history lessons!
That's more common than you'd think. Why I dunno but more than one person has named their kids variations of the same name.
Rowling gets the most hate for creating fiction by pulling from mythologies. She's sold more books than the freaking Bible.
Nope, HP is only the fourth best selling books of entire time with 500 million plus sales, I think.
Yes, wendigo. Slay
Jesus christ, you spent so long talking about christmas, I forgot I was watching a Harry Potter.
Any movie is a Christmas movie if you regularly watch it on Christmas. For my family, it's both HP and LOTR.
The Supernatural references in your videos are such a highlight for me😂 your videos are already fantastic, but including callbacks and references to my favorite show really makes my day lol
Same but also I’m big mad that they didn’t put a certain red headed witch up on the screen when talking about the inferior Rowena.
@@victorias.1685 I love Rowena! lol but yes I was expecting to see her when the brought up the name
The thing about Harry Potter, is that it's not a typical Fantasy.
It's a YA mystery series, in the vaine of Nacy Drew and the Hardy Boys (although better written then those), with a Low Fantasy skin.
HP actually falls in the low fantasy genre
I'd say that the series succeeds because it blends so many genres. Fantasy, school novels, YA, mystery, etc.
@@timothygenewong spot on, and every book the genre changes coz the main characters get involved in different situations and adventures.
Oh...OH! "Here we are Wasseling" That makes so much sense now. You solved a question I've had but never asked. I love this channel. Bless you lads, Happy New Years!
Good job on the history of Yule/Yol traditions within Germanic/Norse paganism. Love the channel. Keep em' coming, brothers!
I admit I do not watch Goblet of Fire often, not my fave, but I could have sworn they were merpeople that lived in the Black Lake, not Selkies. Also, thought you would go into the Boggarts thing more since they are in the movie (Prisoner of Azkaban) vs myth.
The description in the book definitely says freshwater merfolk... The one in the stained glass window in the prefect's bathroom was supposed to be a saltwater mermaid.
Yeah, but we live in an age of "Rowling says random shit on the Internet and that's just canon now."
Two days ago (at time of writing), it was the four-year anniversary of Rowling taking to the Internet and announcing to the world that wizards used to shit themselves and magic away the evidence, to the horror and confusion of supporters and detractors alike. There's probably a Twitter or Pottermore post somewhere that Lore Lodge got the "The Goblet fishmen were actually selkies" thing from.
Warner Brothers copyright claims everything they can. So don't feel bad.
They even copyrighted MeatCanyon's parody of bugs bunny, who was a struggling serial rapist. Thus officially making it canon.
Dragging a writer from 1936 by fact checking her article into the cheap seats... this is what I'm here for
My last name is Potter, and when the first book came out, I was asked “are you related to Harry?” constantly. It was so bad, I ended up fucking hating Rowling for choosing that last name out of all the other English surnames in existence. Of course, I don’t still have those feelings, but it still gets annoying getting asked if I’m Harry’s brother or something.
Are you related to him though?
@@hassanbadrek2726 yeah he’s my uncles brothers wife’s son
I wasn't expecting an Old Greg reference, but I am very much here for it.
Liked the Supernatural references, do a deep dive on that series please!
It would need to be a series of videos to get into everything
i do really wish this touched on where exactly rowling got inspiration to make goblins bankers who hoard gold, eerie long fingers, and hooked noses...aside from that, rowling doesn't just use anglo-saxon mythology, even before she started using indigenous american mythology as her playground for her new movies and turning voldemorts snake into a monstrous enslaved indonesian woman for "diversity win!", she pulled from eastern european mythologies, as well as snippets of west and east asia, and usually gave them the selkie treatment of slapping a more recognizable name onto whatever she wanted it to be. i will say, her portrayals and biases are all very exceedingly english of her lmfao. basically, people are not only disavowing her because of her ideas about gender.
on the topic of goblins again, interestingly, redcaps do exist in her universe and they're just as brutal (mostly via the video games and bestiary); i'd love to see a closer look at her fantastic beasts bestiary book as that's where a lot of the lore around "her" creatures is detailed, for comparison to more real world myths.
I mean, its her story, she realistically cant get it wrong. However she writes it is correct, regardless of what it happens to be lol
Just a thought-the selkie could be an adaptation of the Norse tradition of shapeshifters using wolf skins to change into wolves. The selkie could be an adaption of this tradition to feature “sea wolves”, aka seals.
As a long-time Harry Potter nerd, I do not recall any mention of selkies in the books. (I did coincidentally see The Secret of Roan Inish.) I truly did enjoy this background look at the lore used by Rowling in the series, even if it did hurt my ears to hear your pronunciation of Rowling to rhyme with cowling, when it actually rhymes with bowling.
Selkies are mentioned in one of the charity textbooks I believe
Thank you.
You got me with Old Greg. I did not expect to laugh so hard.
Do a lore lodge on the accuracy of how angels look in today's media eye and how they are actually depicted in the Bible and other biblical texts plus what movies or shows have used them form there original depictions
In the scriptures, angels are generally depicted as attractive men when they materialize on earth. During the forty years in the wilderness, Michael the Archangel appeared as a large pillar of smoke or fire that would lead them to where they should go. The idea of "Biblically accurate angels" is a reference to how Ezekiel describes them as appearing in the spiritual realm, which isn't really all that interesting considering we don't inhabit the spiritual realm.
My point is, if an angel showed up to deliver a message to you, he would probably look like Ben Afleck or Matt Damon.
All you gotta do is find some DMT and you can see them for yourself.
@@tonyfriendly4409 You got that right. the "Biblically accurate angel" meme is about Seraphim who never come to Earth. The angels that do just look like people.
I would enjoy a series of vids on myths and legends in Canada....starting from one coast and going across the country. Every province has a rich resource in myths and legends.
Amazing job! I love your story-telling ability. I even listen to your history lessons, even though it's never been a strength of mine. Thanks, and I'm completely new to your podcasts; I just found you today (I've watched two of your true crimes as well). Have you done one on Tolkien yet?
You’ve mentioned the several times that the Victorians changed facts to make themselves look good. Can you please do a video explaining this?
i wasn’t prepared for the deep memories the old greg clip un locker
I felt this needed to be twice as long! Thanks for the entertainment on my commute
The Hairy Potter Saga was a saga about going through puberty.
I never got magic powers when i when through puberty though, just sayin.... wait.. maybe i did..???
There is 1 major, major problem I can already see: Rowling did draw on other authors, heavily. Tons of people have written at length about the books that she obviously and blatantly ripped off. She just *claimed* in interviews that she drew on folklore and came up with all of it herself. Which shows, because the parts she didn't blatantly rip off from other smaller fantasy books are completely nonsensical and wrong. Same for all the worldbuilding that she didn't rip off. She has done a really, really good job at keeping this hidden even as her reputation has tanked. The Worst Witch by Jill Murphy is the big one, though she's been sued multiple times by multiple different authors over this. It wouldn't be that bad if she'd just admit it, most authors freely talk about how they draw inspiration and borrow ideas from other books. It is the fact that she tries to pretend otherwise that sucks and is wrong.
Edit: Pretty sure the stories about women disappearing with their Selkie husbands is just people trying to have wishful thinking about women who probably drowned.
_Good_ artists borrow, _great_ artists steal.
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 Agreed, but you don't pretend that you didn't steal or borrow.
@@bigangenbygang
Fair
She was sued once and she won and the court even found the person trying to sue guilty of lying to the court and lost the case completely. She can't even claim jkr stole from her anymore. The whole transcript is available online if you want to read the courts finding. It's super interesting
@@Kaloufie Most of the accusations never went to court, and everyone knows that civil courts are about how much money you can spend on lawyers rather any kind of justice.
JK Rowling does appropriate creatures and lore from outside her cultural background though. If you go on her website, she talks about Wendigos in her lore about North American wizards. I think there was also creatures mentioned in her articles on Asia and Africa too.
Who?
there's also a history of the british heavily oppressing the irish as well (i think the famine is really the best example) and celtic folklore is tied to ireland (as well as other regions in europe!). additionally seamus finnigan (irish character) is a TERRIBLE stereotype.
and yes, you're right about the way that pretty much every other continent is treated. the american wizarding school uses names from indigenous folklore for their houses, all of her asian characters (the patils and cho chang) have very little care put towards them and are essentially walking racial stereotypes, and if i remember right, the african wizardry school sends out their acceptances to students via rocks. which isnt necessarily bad but the way that northwestern culture views africa makes it.. weird!
ADDITIONALLY (sorry, this is a super long comment, but i unfortunately know a lot about harry potter and at this point highly dislike it) goblins in harry potter very closely comply with antisemitic caricatures & the game which recently came out is about a goblin rebellion (who in universe are treated as second class citizens) and very closely matches fearmongering tales about jewish people throughout history, and house elves in the books are portrayed as enjoying being essentially enslaved, which does not make it into the movies (thank god, really.)
in the end rowling is a white woman who wanted to write something cool but did not have any respect for cultures outside of her own. it sucks, really, because harry potter was really important to me and a LOT of people i know in my youth and it was supposed to promote an idea of equality (see blood status as a conflict in the series), but you can't tote around the theme of equality when a lot of your worldbuilding and side character work is bigoted garbage.
tl;dr, yeah jkr absolutely appropriated stuff and disrespected other cultures
@@tiildeath who?
A girl in my school said I looked like Harry Potter
I was insulted and honestly took it as a racist comment as not all white boys with brown hair look the same
I Don't even have glasses
It was also a black girl that said it
Racism works both ways
She obviously didn't know what she was talking about. Harry Potter's hair is black.
I always heard the date for Christmas came from the Roman holiday of Saturnalia
The one thing I love most about lore lodge videos is the quick history lesson on each topic as I find it adds more perspective on the subject as opposed to just talking about the subject matter and not the history behind it. Especially when it comes to native american tribes as I find living in Canada our school taught us nothing on the indigenous cultures who live here and have learned more from the history lessons provided by lore lodge as I did in school.
Well she had the only Irish character make things explode so…
👀
I'm all for clowning on Jowling, because she honestly does deserve it, but that one _was_ the work of the movies, the book version isn't particularly associated with anything besides being one of the characters that buys into the smear campaign against Harry in Book 5.
Most of the rest of the extremely suspect things in the series are all on her though.
I don’t see the comparison to Radcliffe but a compliment is a compliment lol
The deep dive into Yule was so fascinating I legitimately thought we were talking about Harry Potter.
Appreciate you diving into the murky/currently controversial waters of Yule and giving us the evidence that does exist.
Also appreciate the old Greg reference 😂
Gotta love the Boosh.
I love how you integrated a history lesson. got me thirsting for more
How did she get things wrong in a fictional book she wrote?
Mr European History degree has to make content somehow
@@NealBones I can't understand the arrogance it takes for someone to claim to know more about the lore of a book than the actual author. Why is J.K Rowling controversial?
@@williammurray7453well…she did call all trans people rapists …
Because she didn't create these creatures, she took them from other cultures and adapted them.
If I write a book where I include gryphons and I make them weird, scaly, firebreathing lizards then the fact that I'm writing the book doesn't mean I haven't just written a dragon and called it something else.
As for why Rowling's controversial... she needed to get off the Internet a long, long time ago. Putting aside all the politics (because that's a minefield I don't feel like wading into tonight), two days ago (as of writing this), it was the fourth anniversary of Rowling declaring to the world that Wizards used to shit themselves and magic away the evidence. At that point, just get off the Twitter, please, for the sake of everyone else that likes the things you write.
@@williammurray7453she used word association to name everything and badly translated words for the names of the foreign wizard schools. She's wasn't exactly straining herself when
You should totally do Supernatural, specifically the angelic beings starting in season 4
Me and my insomnia have a date with this video 💕
My grandfather used to warn of the Tommy Knockers. He was a 2nd generation coal miner from an area near Scranton. goblins errywhere
You should cover the arthurian legends as well as dragons 🐉
I was watching this while cleaning mostly zoned out during the Yule rant that I completely forgot this was a Harry Potter video until you said it and I got whiplash
WB is in the dog house with everyone lol
I know the video would never happen because the series is a little too obscure, but you should look into the fablehaven series if you want to see some surprisingly accurate (to my recollection) depictions of different creatures of myth. That series is actually how I know about brownies and they’re nearly exactly as described in the video
I always felt like the goblins who run the bank were meant to represent something else.
Are you an adult? If so just say it was hate against the Jewish people. If you are in fact a child then feel free keeping what you wrote.
@@Brian2Jesus Christ dude relax
@@Brian2 It must suck being such a miserable person
When I first saw the movies I was like "Ah yes, goblins are critters that like and hoard gold the same way dragons do. Very clever to have them be in charge of the banks in this world because of their natural affinity for it." Nothing else ever crossed my mind until years later when people started telling on themselves by saying the goblins made them think of Jewish people. That's a you problem, baby.
@@comets.8590 not to mention the fact that in the books they are never described in any of the stereotypical jewish ways. They were just bankers.
I loved the one Harry Potter movie where they attached guns akimbo to his hands.
That was my favorite, thanks for reminding me of it
@@stevendorries was so good
I think it’s also kinda of admirable that Rowling knows so much of obscure folklore and myths at the time she wrote. Remember, Internet wasn’t a thing yet, so she did have to go out of her way and go to libraries, buy books and talk with older people and stuff to know the stuff. For us today, it’s a click away.
As an Icelander I can say that the butchering of the names of the Yulelads (Jólasveinar) was extremely funny haha =)
I promise no ill intention was had haha
How can one get fiction wrong?
Fascinating channel. This is the first time I've enjoyed any discussion about Harry Potter.
Love Supernatural!!!
Harry Potter is a Halloween to Christmas event for me. Start watching Halloween night and finish on Christmas. It’s just such a nostalgic series
The issue you're running into with her not really utilizing the lore of the creatures she used for her story is she was too busy trying to fit cultural and ethnic stereotypes in against specific people groups.
I was so baffled by how interesting that christmas yule bit was that I completely forgot I was watching a video about Harry Potter lmao
Gonna look for some more history videos of yours now
Almost everything from the last year has a solid history segment!
There is no "problem" with Harry Potter ever discussed. JKR was writing fiction, not a peer-reviewed journal article on the history of mythology. Of course she played with the mythos in a creative way. She could have coined new terms for all of her versions of magical creatures, but it was a wise choice to build upon terms which children were likely to already know.
Shaman of the Carpathian Mountains hung the psychedelic Amanita Muscaria fungi 🍄 (Fly Agaric) from conifers in order to dry them (in an attempt to convert the neurotoxin “ibotenic acid” to “muscimol”). The fungi have a vivid red cap with white dots 🍄 (
Always a fun ride at the Lore Lodge! I love it when you dive into Celtic lore!
Surprised you didn't mention that Harry Potter is suspiciously similar to one of Neil Gaiman's works. Look it up, the cover images are even super similar. Gaiman said she didn't intentionally plagiarize because if she did she would have changed more details, which I think is maybe overthinking it...