One person's trash is another's treasure. An ex-girlfriend (a High School English teacher) who, in looking through my books one day, said, "I read well, but wasn't well read." Even though my library contained well read volumes by William Shakespeare, Alexander Dumas, Robert Lewis Stevenson, James Hilton, Emily and Charlotte Bronte, and more, that were and are considered "classics". She only saw the Doc Savage, Star Trek, Doctor Who, The Shadow, Arthur Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Earl Stanley Gardner, Robert E. Howard, and Edgar Rice Burroughs collections. She assumed, since I did not have copies of The Iliad and The Odyssey, that I wasn't "well read". I have always read primarily for pleasure and spending time with Doc Savage, Philip Marlowe, or the crew of the Enterprise, is like catching up with old friends. I completely agree with you Michael, that Robert E, Howard is a fantastic writer and should be considered for any classics library editions. Still haven't gotten around to reading The Iliad or The Odyssey.
Since you like Howard (I assume Conan?), you'll definitely love The Illiad and The Odyssey. They have so much in common, one has to be an English Lit teacher to not see it.
“The trash status can change over time.” Beautifully apt and deeply true. Madame Bovary reviled as trash upon publication. Same with Ulysses. Same with all the modern masterpieces that first appeared in “Weird Tales” and half the classics on our shelves. Great Video.
Great video! People do seem to take less offence now at the term trash than they did the first year, I think I’ve beaten them into submission through pure repetition.
Comic book characters have been made hugely popular in the last 10 years. Unfortunately, comic book sales (American comics that is) have never been worse. It's almost as if they forgot who their primary target audience/demographic was.
They never knew who the audience was in the first place. They were too busy turning everything into their idea of a utopian apocalyptic dream-world for the Leftist goose-stepping Screeching Karen's of the world...
I never leave the house without my Twin stainless steel Detonics .45 Combat Master 1911 handguns complete with Pachmayr grips in an Alessi shoulder rig with a Milt Sparks 6-pack leather magazine pouch for backup ammo... Back in the day, we were all partial to The Survivalist, The Destroyer, Mack Bolen, and Bonner, The Outrider.
I love your wasted weekend garb....I had to watch Olly's videos on "trash" to see what qualifies. Because of you and your channel, I am now reading the entire Barsoom series! How could ERB's books have ever been considered trash?
I read the Barsoom series as a teen and slogged my way through much similar fiction. It being the beginning of the modern genre. Need to know yer literary roots, man. Robert E Howard is another great of the time. Lovecraft also
I have been reading a lot of romance books and people see romance books as being trash. People will ask “why are you reading that ???” Or some will look and say “You’re seriously reading that ???” I have heard people say that the romance genre is trash. The books I’ve read people tend to consider as trash.
I feel like guys get more hassled for reading romance than women since it is largely known to be aimed at women. This of course ignores the fact that it is a genre that pretty much cross all other genres. From suspense to science fiction you can find romance novels. As I grown older they have been a bit of a guilty pleasure and it isn't just because they are surprisingly smutty sometimes.
I think the problem is a lot of people equate romance with smut or erotica. The sad thing is a lot of the biggest award winning romance novels of modern times are actually just trashy erotica (Fifty Shades of Gray comes to mind) Actual romance books can be beautiful, heart warming and full of great character development though.
@@stephennootens916 I catch hell when I go on Booktube romance channels and comment. Usually the return comments like: "Do you actually read romance?" Yes, I'm a guy and I actually read romance books.I also read Robert E. Howard, Destroyer novels, biographies, comic books, religious texts, etc., etc. But it's like guys are not allowed to read romance books. To heck with it, I'm reading them anyway! Just read a paranormal romance last night. Good stuff!
@@TheJohno95 I can't say that surprises me. It is one of those things that we were taught by pop culture. Men only like this and women like this anyone who doesn't stay on their a signed box throughs them off. The fact that polls have proven all this wrong doesn't change the fact that it the idea has been drilled into their heads
@@nightmarishcompositions4536 Fifty Shades is on its own special level of bad. It isn't even passable trashy erotic romance. There are a James Patterson books better written than fifty shades. That said a surprising amount of erotic romance has taken of a good deal of the market.
The ever-changing status of the sort of books we like to read just goes to show how much of the perception of these things is dependent on "fashion" and "received wisdom". Following trends laid down by others is a recipe to unhappiness.
Mickey Spillane wrote absolutely classic "Noir Literature" and along with Chandler absolutely defined the hard-boiled detective trope. We still see that trope today; it shows up all the time. It's woven into our cultural awareness. In many cases it's updated and gets woven into other Genres and even mainstream literature. I mean, Blade Runner was an updated Noir set in sci-fi. I've seen it in sci fi, westerns, modern literature, Paranormal, you name it. The jaded, world weary tough detective/investigator dealing with all levels of society from the gritty back streets to mansions is a major plotline now...and Raymond Chandler and Mickey Spillane (And others, I know perfectly well so don't go dragging me across the parking lot folks) brought that to the world. Hey, I've even seen the main protagonist be female, alien, even in one story I read the protag was dead and solving his own murder!
Story of my life !!! " You're a bright guy, why do you read this junk?" When I was taking a mandatory literature class in college, I innocently asked the professor if we would be reading any SF. He looked at me like I had two heads, and in the most condescending voice said "Certainly not. Why would we?" I would have plenty to tell him now, but at the time, I was stunned and embarrassed. To be fair he did assign some wonderful novels that I wouldn't have picked on my own, and we had some really enriching conversations. He just had a bias and a blind spot re genre fiction.
I’ve decided to read what Spock referred to as “the classics”…Valley of the Dolls. When I bought it from my local library used bookstore, the person pricing it said, “who would read this trash?” I bought it immediately along with the rest of the Jacqueline Susann books they had. 😂📚💕
I never realized i was reading 'trash' until i discovered your channel a couple of years back...explains a lot....feels like i finally found my people 👀 ❤
Chandler goes to your point. His writing was, and by many still is, thought to be trash. Now, though, he has multiple volumes in the Library of America series.
Can't wait for Garbaugust! It's early Sunday evening where I am and I just have time to read Baron Orgaz, (1974), the fourth book in the Doctor Orient by Frank Lauria.😃
Speaking of Jane Austen, gothic romances were also considered trash, but that's what inspired her work. Thus the Northanger "Horrid" novels. But I don't think people consider Ann Radcliffe trash anymore, or even things like "The Castle of Wolfenbach."
The Penny Dreadfuls, Pulp, Harlequin Romance, etc. Literature of the "Great Unwashed", it's all good fun. Guilty pleasures. Thank you for this fun video. Love your tee.🤓
It seems like Library of America said, "Okay, okay...we'll acknowledge that these two books (Tarzan and A Princess of Mars) are culturally significant, but we're still not letting Burroughs into the tree house."
I read and watch whatever I find interesting. Always have. I'm also not ashamed to tell people about the silly and implausible stuff that happens in those stories either.
One important reason popular books are deemed to be trash by professional critics is that the critics can't control access to them. Critics tend to function as guardians of whatever extablishment is in fashion and power at the moment. Almost all popular movements in the arts are, at least initially considered to be subversive trash, from Rock and Roll, Elvis, the Beatles to Superman, Dick Tracy and Mike Hammer. The peasants don't care what the critics think, and that infuriates those same critics. On;ly educated people listen to the critics. As one librarian put it, "It's very hard to get people to read books the critics like.." Comics got a boost from Japanese anime and Manga.. After all. the critics were sort of in love with Japanese art in the 70's and 80's, so if the Japanese liked it, it must be Okay.. Critical opinion. as you point out, can change over time. Sometimes even the practitioners disparage their own work. Shakes[eare wanted to be remembered as a poet rather than as a dramatist.Yet who would read the Sonnets or the Rape of Lucrece if Shakespeare hadn't written Hamlet and his other dramatic masterpieces ?
Great point and completely agree. My feeling is that it's not the general public that calls certain things trash, but rather it is the literary critics.
I'm right there with you Michael. I've loved comic books since I was a kid and still avoidly read and collect comics. And I love fantasy and pulp fiction. All of which are still looked down on today. I think the point is to read and enjoy what you enjoy. Life is too short to force yourself to read so called classics if you don't enjoy them or are bored by them. Give me my Conans and Elrics and Green Lanterns any day. In fact I spent part of yesterday reading The Shadow and loved it lol. By the way, love the Punisher shirt Michael! Its nice to see you laid back every once in awhile.
I wonder how much ERB's absence from LOA has to do with LOA and how much with the ERB Foundation itself? Since they launched their big publishing initiative, I'm sure they don't want to cut their own profits short. Just a thought.
Good for you, Michael. I love plenty of the classics, but I will go out of my way to find something like the Doc Savage books that doesn't disturb my sleep or make me think too much about the essential absurdity/evil of man. I get enough of that in watching the news. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Faulkner are rich fare that benefit from cleansing the palate with waters from shallower depths.
We just read both a Star Trek and a Doctor Who novel for a special "TV Tie-in" episode of my podcast, and I have a lot of thoughts about this subject now, and I'll be going on a rant or two for sure. I can definitely understand why many people consider TV and movie tie-ins, maybe *especially* the original fiction that makes use of someone else's intellectual property in order to sell books, to be extremely trashy. Even some of the writers have terrible experiences doing these things and don't want to talk about them afterwards. In a general sense though -- trash definitely sells. And that in itself is interesting, and makes trashy books (and movies) becom interesting historical artefacts over time. I bet you there are lots of academic dissertations out there now about Mickey Spillane books. The trash reflects a culture of a time and place better than the pristine, polished gems do, very likely, and so over time the work becomes, if not respectable, an interesting study of history. I feel like maybe film people have learned to embrace the quality of trash, in a way, that maybe book people haven't quite. is it just me, or does anyone else agree? I wonder what the reasons are. Maybe in part it's because reading is considered a more "elitist" activity now. For me though, reading is far more relaxing and easygoing than watching TV or film, which make my brain work harder sometimes, for reasons I won't go into here.
That bear cover reminded me of the novel Bear by Marian Engel, about a woman who has a sexual relationship with a bear, and won the Governor General's Literary Award. Just go look at the original cover. So yes, the line between whatever is literature and whatever is trash is thin indeed.
I think it's time for you to change the introduction to :"Hello my friends, Welcome to stately Roger Manor". We all know where the real brains of the outfit lie :) Ok, ok, as an avid reader , I really enjoy your videos. I downloaded Brak the Barbarian and am working my way towards it. Just finished Jungle Tales of Tarzan for the 3rd or 4th time. As for Sword and Sorcery, I LOVED the Assasin's Apprentice trilogy by Robin Hobb !
PS: There is no such thing as a trash read. If you are reading it and you enjoy it then it aint trash ! One could say Harry Potter was trash. But it brought millions of people, children and adults also back to reading.
my late father used to have a go at myself and my brother for reading stephen king and james herbert and other horror and science fiction writers. his favourite writer was....harold robbins.
Excellent video! I enjoyed very much! Yes just about everything I read and have read is trash lol. I don't either because I like it and had a great time reading it! Yeah I've been told and given a lot of crap because read comics, horror, and sword and sorcery too. When someone ask me do read why I do, I always reply because I like it.
We see this in music too. People get very upity about listening to classical music, symphonies, opera, and think that makes them cultured. A lot of that music, especially opera, was not necessarily well respected when it was first performed. It could have bawdy or crass humor, and people went to see and be seen, not to take in the art. They talked through the shows, food was sold by strolling vendors, and the songs sometimes ended up being sung by the commoners in the streets like they were pop songs. The point is, all art forms and people’s opinions of them change over time. Initial success doesn’t automatically equal longevity or critical acclaim, and vice versa. People should read what they enjoy, as with all other hobbies that hurt no one. Do I want alto eat candy all the time? Yes and no…😂, but I’m not going to. Do I enjoy an occult detective or supernatural romance? Yes, but they’re not going to be the only things I read. And just because something lives in a given genre does not automatically make it good or bad. I am looking forward to Garbaugust again this year!
I read all kinds of genres. I read Fantasy, historical novels, novels, mystery, thriller, romance , chicklit, YA, classics, comics, non-fiction in different genres, from history to spiritual books to books about God and Jesus and sometimes i even read childrens books. And i might miss a few genres even haha. I am getting a little more in SF. And a lot of them they might see as trash... i don't care what they think. I like it and sometimes love it, and that's it. They can read what they want ... i read what i want ;)
Mickey Spillane only died a few years ago and he was noted for his pulpy sex and violence mystery novels. As a Librarian told me once he was far from a great writer but he gave you what you cams for and could be fun.
I'll see your Warrior of Llarn and raise you any Xanth novel by Piers Anthony. I guess they're considered for kids or teens but I read most of them in my 40's.
I don't think one should write off whole genres as trash. There are trashy books and great books in any genre. And what's genre anyway? Jane Austen is essentially a Romance author. 1984 is science fiction. Crime and Punishment and Brothers Karamazov are crime fiction. I once listen to a talk between cultural commentators about critics. One opined that American critics are always wrong about things. He said the critics looked away at the best of American culture like Tin Pan Alley and crime fiction for stuff that critics dismissed. The other critic mentioned rock and roll which he dismissed as utter crap. So he was a big hypocrite. (He also lecture incessantly about masculinity...when he loved Tin Pan Alley and musical theater and other things not considered masculine.)
So maybe it too early in the morning for me. Maybe it's because I didn't drink my coffee. Can someone please tell me who he's impersonating at 00:53 when he says "society" ? I keep thinking it's Tim Roth from Four Rooms but I don't think that's it.
People get all sorts of categories mixed up. There are books that are objectively poorly written. There are books that are objectively well written. There are books that have immoral, evil, and/or otherwise worthless content. There are books that have moral, good, and/or otherwise worthwhile content. Some immoral books can be well written. Some moral books can be poorly written. These are just factual statements. The problem is that these days, for reasons I cannot fathom, people refuse to distinguish between subjective and objective. I have zero patience for that nonsense. I do think it matters what you read. What you read shapes your thoughts, your worldview, your character. I don't normally get judge-y comments because nobody pays enough attention to me to even notice what I read. I guess that's good? Oh, well!
I've never read Piper's Day of tge Moron but it sounds contemporary. 😅 I was a Star Trek book collector for many years and many people consider those to be trash. Obviously they're not literary classic and high brow literature but there are many of those books that are fun and entertaining. In my mind if you enjoy reading it then it shouldn't matter to anyone but you.
Oh, Spillane the Stephen King of the 50's? Surely he was better than that. He has...pistols on his book covers 🤭 Snoozerson could only wish his books were trash. 😴 Football and war, bring it on.
Certain books and writers might begin with commercial intent but over time they are recognized for some quality or strength that was not perceived during their original release. Burroughs, not a great writer but definitely had a good eye for story and character, while Lovecraft and Clark Adhton Smith live on while a lot of literary authors have disappeared yet the Weird Tales stalwarts continue in popularity and influence due to the depth of their imaginations. Spillane hacked his way through multiple novels but the power of his Mike Hammer character is dynamic enough to interest even jaded modern readers. Howard had real talent but the kind of stories he wtote pigeon-holed him into being seen as a cheap pulp writer disregarding his ability. The list could go on. Even Shirley Jackson lived in the shadow of her literary critic husband but her works are still and will continue to be in print while his are slumbering, which is not to say they were bad but their appeal has waned.The whole question of trash or quality is pretty subjective. It s best to read what you like and just enjoy it while you can, and if you re tempted - from time to time try something out of your comfort zone. I suspect Chandler is revered as he is because he took pulp to literary heights. By the way, the Spider novels are great reading.
I don't judge anyone by what they choose to read, I think it is great that people read what they like and enjoy it but I think you are wrong about Jane Austen. Her books are amazing.
One person's trash is another's treasure. An ex-girlfriend (a High School English teacher) who, in looking through my books one day, said, "I read well, but wasn't well read." Even though my library contained well read volumes by William Shakespeare, Alexander Dumas, Robert Lewis Stevenson, James Hilton, Emily and Charlotte Bronte, and more, that were and are considered "classics". She only saw the Doc Savage, Star Trek, Doctor Who, The Shadow, Arthur Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Earl Stanley Gardner, Robert E. Howard, and Edgar Rice Burroughs collections. She assumed, since I did not have copies of The Iliad and The Odyssey, that I wasn't "well read". I have always read primarily for pleasure and spending time with Doc Savage, Philip Marlowe, or the crew of the Enterprise, is like catching up with old friends. I completely agree with you Michael, that Robert E, Howard is a fantastic writer and should be considered for any classics library editions. Still haven't gotten around to reading The Iliad or The Odyssey.
Of course The Iliad and The Odyssey are great though! 😆
Since you like Howard (I assume Conan?), you'll definitely love The Illiad and The Odyssey. They have so much in common, one has to be an English Lit teacher to not see it.
“The trash status can change over time.” Beautifully apt and deeply true. Madame Bovary reviled as trash upon publication. Same with Ulysses. Same with all the modern masterpieces that first appeared in “Weird Tales” and half the classics on our shelves. Great Video.
It's always been that way with the arts.
Great video! People do seem to take less offence now at the term trash than they did the first year, I think I’ve beaten them into submission through pure repetition.
Comic book characters have been made hugely popular in the last 10 years. Unfortunately, comic book sales (American comics that is) have never been worse. It's almost as if they forgot who their primary target audience/demographic was.
They never knew who the audience was in the first place. They were too busy turning everything into their idea of a utopian apocalyptic dream-world for the Leftist goose-stepping Screeching Karen's of the world...
We’re living in “The Day of the Moron”.
I never leave the house without my Twin stainless steel Detonics .45 Combat Master 1911 handguns complete with Pachmayr grips in an Alessi shoulder rig with a Milt Sparks 6-pack leather magazine pouch for backup ammo...
Back in the day, we were all partial to The Survivalist, The Destroyer, Mack Bolen, and Bonner, The Outrider.
"Uncle Arthur likes his mommy.
Uncle Arthur still reads comics.
Uncle Arthur follows Batman." -- David Bowie
"Whatever gets you through the night it's all right it's all right."
Still being published 100 years later is a mark of excellence.
Bigtime.
I love your wasted weekend garb....I had to watch Olly's videos on "trash" to see what qualifies. Because of you and your channel, I am now reading the entire Barsoom series! How could ERB's books have ever been considered trash?
I read the Barsoom series as a teen and slogged my way through much similar fiction. It being the beginning of the modern genre. Need to know yer literary roots, man. Robert E Howard is another great of the time. Lovecraft also
I have been reading a lot of romance books and people see romance books as being trash. People will ask “why are you reading that ???” Or some will look and say “You’re seriously reading that ???” I have heard people say that the romance genre is trash. The books I’ve read people tend to consider as trash.
I feel like guys get more hassled for reading romance than women since it is largely known to be aimed at women. This of course ignores the fact that it is a genre that pretty much cross all other genres. From suspense to science fiction you can find romance novels.
As I grown older they have been a bit of a guilty pleasure and it isn't just because they are surprisingly smutty sometimes.
I think the problem is a lot of people equate romance with smut or erotica. The sad thing is a lot of the biggest award winning romance novels of modern times are actually just trashy erotica (Fifty Shades of Gray comes to mind) Actual romance books can be beautiful, heart warming and full of great character development though.
@@stephennootens916 I catch hell when I go on Booktube romance channels and comment. Usually the return comments like: "Do you actually read romance?" Yes, I'm a guy and I actually read romance books.I also read Robert E. Howard, Destroyer novels, biographies, comic books, religious texts, etc., etc. But it's like guys are not allowed to read romance books. To heck with it, I'm reading them anyway! Just read a paranormal romance last night. Good stuff!
@@TheJohno95 I can't say that surprises me. It is one of those things that we were taught by pop culture. Men only like this and women like this anyone who doesn't stay on their a signed box throughs them off. The fact that polls have proven all this wrong doesn't change the fact that it the idea has been drilled into their heads
@@nightmarishcompositions4536 Fifty Shades is on its own special level of bad. It isn't even passable trashy erotic romance. There are a James Patterson books better written than fifty shades.
That said a surprising amount of erotic romance has taken of a good deal of the market.
We forget that "trash" is where the experimentation happens.
Loved Spillane. So sad when he died. He started out writing comics in the 40s.
The ever-changing status of the sort of books we like to read just goes to show how much of the perception of these things is dependent on "fashion" and "received wisdom". Following trends laid down by others is a recipe to unhappiness.
A t-shirt?? Zounds!!
I know! My brain could barely process it! I don't think I've ever seen him like, not dressed up. Crazytimes!
OMG, I almost spit out my coffee when Stolen By Her Bear came on screen. 😂. Not that the trash I’m reading today is of any higher caliber 😜
My weekend has been filled with giant 🦀 🦀 and Mickey Spillane. I’m glad you mentioned him.
❤🗑️🤪
One of these days I'm going to work "by so-CI-ety" into a sentence.
Your trash is my gold..yep about Jane Austenzzzzz
Mickey Spillane wrote absolutely classic "Noir Literature" and along with Chandler absolutely defined the hard-boiled detective trope. We still see that trope today; it shows up all the time. It's woven into our cultural awareness. In many cases it's updated and gets woven into other Genres and even mainstream literature. I mean, Blade Runner was an updated Noir set in sci-fi. I've seen it in sci fi, westerns, modern literature, Paranormal, you name it. The jaded, world weary tough detective/investigator dealing with all levels of society from the gritty back streets to mansions is a major plotline now...and Raymond Chandler and Mickey Spillane (And others, I know perfectly well so don't go dragging me across the parking lot folks) brought that to the world. Hey, I've even seen the main protagonist be female, alien, even in one story I read the protag was dead and solving his own murder!
I love trash novels. I read John D. Macdonald pot boilers and Travis McGee. Fantastic trash. Sci Fi was always looked down upon as garbage.
Travis McGee books were a terrific entertaining series !
i think that for the last 20 some years at least John.D. McDoald has not been considered trash.
Story of my life !!! " You're a bright guy, why do you read this junk?" When I was taking a mandatory literature class in college, I innocently asked the professor if we would be reading any SF. He looked at me like I had two heads, and in the most condescending voice said "Certainly not. Why would we?" I would have plenty to tell him now, but at the time, I was stunned and embarrassed. To be fair he did assign some wonderful novels that I wouldn't have picked on my own, and we had some really enriching conversations. He just had a bias and a blind spot re genre fiction.
I’ve decided to read what Spock referred to as “the classics”…Valley of the Dolls. When I bought it from my local library used bookstore, the person pricing it said, “who would read this trash?” I bought it immediately along with the rest of the Jacqueline Susann books they had. 😂📚💕
I never realized i was reading 'trash' until i discovered your channel a couple of years back...explains a lot....feels like i finally found my people 👀 ❤
There’s gold in that there trash. From penny dreadfuls right through to Ed lee, I love it all.
So effectively you’re telling me that for you, Garbaugust is a year round event 😆
Trash Status was one of my favourite wrestlers.
Michael's mock nodding off. Brilliant.😂😂😂
Chandler goes to your point. His writing was, and by many still is, thought to be trash. Now, though, he has multiple volumes in the Library of America series.
Justifiably
@@philipmsearle1399 Chandler is one of my favorite authors.
Can't wait for Garbaugust! It's early Sunday evening where I am and I just have time to read Baron Orgaz, (1974), the fourth book in the Doctor Orient by Frank Lauria.😃
Day of the Moron sounds like current day travelers tale
Speaking of Jane Austen, gothic romances were also considered trash, but that's what inspired her work. Thus the Northanger "Horrid" novels. But I don't think people consider Ann Radcliffe trash anymore, or even things like "The Castle of Wolfenbach."
The Penny Dreadfuls, Pulp, Harlequin Romance, etc. Literature of the "Great Unwashed", it's all good fun. Guilty pleasures. Thank you for this fun video. Love your tee.🤓
It seems like Library of America said, "Okay, okay...we'll acknowledge that these two books (Tarzan and A Princess of Mars) are culturally significant, but we're still not letting Burroughs into the tree house."
Some of that 'pulp trash' of the 30's is epic
It really is.
I read and watch whatever I find interesting. Always have. I'm also not ashamed to tell people about the silly and implausible stuff that happens in those stories either.
One important reason popular books are deemed to be trash by professional critics is that the critics can't control access to them. Critics tend to function as guardians of whatever extablishment is in fashion and power at the moment. Almost all popular movements in the arts are, at least initially considered to be subversive trash, from Rock and Roll, Elvis, the Beatles to Superman, Dick Tracy and Mike Hammer. The peasants don't care what the critics think, and that infuriates those same critics. On;ly educated people listen to the critics. As one librarian put it, "It's very hard to get people to read books the critics like.." Comics got a boost from Japanese anime and Manga.. After all. the critics were sort of in love with Japanese art in the 70's and 80's, so if the Japanese liked it, it must be Okay.. Critical opinion. as you point out, can change over time. Sometimes even the practitioners disparage their own work. Shakes[eare wanted to be remembered as a poet rather than as a dramatist.Yet who would read the Sonnets or the Rape of Lucrece if Shakespeare hadn't written Hamlet and his other dramatic masterpieces ?
Great point and completely agree. My feeling is that it's not the general public that calls certain things trash, but rather it is the literary critics.
I'm right there with you Michael. I've loved comic books since I was a kid and still avoidly read and collect comics. And I love fantasy and pulp fiction. All of which are still looked down on today. I think the point is to read and enjoy what you enjoy. Life is too short to force yourself to read so called classics if you don't enjoy them or are bored by them. Give me my Conans and Elrics and Green Lanterns any day. In fact I spent part of yesterday reading The Shadow and loved it lol. By the way, love the Punisher shirt Michael! Its nice to see you laid back every once in awhile.
I wonder how much ERB's absence from LOA has to do with LOA and how much with the ERB Foundation itself? Since they launched their big publishing initiative, I'm sure they don't want to cut their own profits short. Just a thought.
Good for you, Michael. I love plenty of the classics, but I will go out of my way to find something like the Doc Savage books that doesn't disturb my sleep or make me think too much about the essential absurdity/evil of man. I get enough of that in watching the news. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Faulkner are rich fare that benefit from cleansing the palate with waters from shallower depths.
We just read both a Star Trek and a Doctor Who novel for a special "TV Tie-in" episode of my podcast, and I have a lot of thoughts about this subject now, and I'll be going on a rant or two for sure. I can definitely understand why many people consider TV and movie tie-ins, maybe *especially* the original fiction that makes use of someone else's intellectual property in order to sell books, to be extremely trashy. Even some of the writers have terrible experiences doing these things and don't want to talk about them afterwards.
In a general sense though -- trash definitely sells. And that in itself is interesting, and makes trashy books (and movies) becom interesting historical artefacts over time. I bet you there are lots of academic dissertations out there now about Mickey Spillane books. The trash reflects a culture of a time and place better than the pristine, polished gems do, very likely, and so over time the work becomes, if not respectable, an interesting study of history.
I feel like maybe film people have learned to embrace the quality of trash, in a way, that maybe book people haven't quite. is it just me, or does anyone else agree? I wonder what the reasons are. Maybe in part it's because reading is considered a more "elitist" activity now. For me though, reading is far more relaxing and easygoing than watching TV or film, which make my brain work harder sometimes, for reasons I won't go into here.
That bear cover reminded me of the novel Bear by Marian Engel, about a woman who has a sexual relationship with a bear, and won the Governor General's Literary Award. Just go look at the original cover.
So yes, the line between whatever is literature and whatever is trash is thin indeed.
I think it's time for you to change the introduction to :"Hello my friends, Welcome to stately Roger Manor". We all know where the real brains of the outfit lie :) Ok, ok, as an avid reader , I really enjoy your videos. I downloaded Brak the Barbarian and am working my way towards it. Just finished Jungle Tales of Tarzan for the 3rd or 4th time. As for Sword and Sorcery, I LOVED the Assasin's Apprentice trilogy by Robin Hobb !
PS: There is no such thing as a trash read. If you are reading it and you enjoy it then it aint trash ! One could say Harry Potter was trash. But it brought millions of people, children and adults also back to reading.
my late father used to have a go at myself and my brother for reading stephen king and james herbert and other horror and science fiction writers. his favourite writer was....harold robbins.
I now realize that my genre of choice is "classic trash".
Excellent video! I enjoyed very much! Yes just about everything I read and have read is trash lol. I don't either because I like it and had a great time reading it! Yeah I've been told and given a lot of crap because read comics, horror, and sword and sorcery too. When someone ask me do read why I do, I always reply because I like it.
We see this in music too. People get very upity about listening to classical music, symphonies, opera, and think that makes them cultured. A lot of that music, especially opera, was not necessarily well respected when it was first performed. It could have bawdy or crass humor, and people went to see and be seen, not to take in the art. They talked through the shows, food was sold by strolling vendors, and the songs sometimes ended up being sung by the commoners in the streets like they were pop songs.
The point is, all art forms and people’s opinions of them change over time. Initial success doesn’t automatically equal longevity or critical acclaim, and vice versa. People should read what they enjoy, as with all other hobbies that hurt no one. Do I want alto eat candy all the time? Yes and no…😂, but I’m not going to. Do I enjoy an occult detective or supernatural romance? Yes, but they’re not going to be the only things I read. And just because something lives in a given genre does not automatically make it good or bad.
I am looking forward to Garbaugust again this year!
I read all kinds of genres. I read Fantasy, historical novels, novels, mystery, thriller, romance , chicklit, YA, classics, comics, non-fiction in different genres, from history to spiritual books to books about God and Jesus and sometimes i even read childrens books. And i might miss a few genres even haha. I am getting a little more in SF. And a lot of them they might see as trash... i don't care what they think. I like it and sometimes love it, and that's it. They can read what they want ... i read what i want ;)
Highbrow, lowbrow….profound, pulp….just entertain me.
Besides, you find some pretty wonderful things in the trash.
😊
Love my trashy, uncouth, wasted books.
Mickey Spillane only died a few years ago and he was noted for his pulpy sex and violence mystery novels. As a Librarian told me once he was far from a great writer but he gave you what you cams for and could be fun.
Love the videos! Have you ever considered doing content about the artists of the old REH pulps? Like Frazetta, Krenkel, Achilleos, etc?
I'll see your Warrior of Llarn and raise you any Xanth novel by Piers Anthony. I guess they're considered for kids or teens but I read most of them in my 40's.
I don't think one should write off whole genres as trash. There are trashy books and great books in any genre. And what's genre anyway? Jane Austen is essentially a Romance author. 1984 is science fiction. Crime and Punishment and Brothers Karamazov are crime fiction.
I once listen to a talk between cultural commentators about critics. One opined that American critics are always wrong about things. He said the critics looked away at the best of American culture like Tin Pan Alley and crime fiction for stuff that critics dismissed. The other critic mentioned rock and roll which he dismissed as utter crap. So he was a big hypocrite. (He also lecture incessantly about masculinity...when he loved Tin Pan Alley and musical theater and other things not considered masculine.)
How can Mickey Spillane be trash. There was a TV show of Mike Hammer back in the day. Anything that is a TV show can not be trash. 🤣
Your assignment,. if you choose to accept it: Read a Book for One Hour a Day.
Do you have a motorcycle with a sidecar? I picture that is how you and Roger arrive at the book shops.....🤔
This is my headcanon now. I can't unsee it.
So maybe it too early in the morning for me. Maybe it's because I didn't drink my coffee. Can someone please tell me who he's impersonating at 00:53 when he says "society" ? I keep thinking it's Tim Roth from Four Rooms but I don't think that's it.
Will the suit vest and t-shirt look catch on? Only time will tell!
Paranormal Frog Romance. A genre I never knew I needed until now. Where can I find some?
People get all sorts of categories mixed up. There are books that are objectively poorly written. There are books that are objectively well written. There are books that have immoral, evil, and/or otherwise worthless content. There are books that have moral, good, and/or otherwise worthwhile content. Some immoral books can be well written. Some moral books can be poorly written. These are just factual statements. The problem is that these days, for reasons I cannot fathom, people refuse to distinguish between subjective and objective. I have zero patience for that nonsense.
I do think it matters what you read. What you read shapes your thoughts, your worldview, your character.
I don't normally get judge-y comments because nobody pays enough attention to me to even notice what I read. I guess that's good? Oh, well!
I've never read Piper's Day of tge Moron but it sounds contemporary. 😅
I was a Star Trek book collector for many years and many people consider those to be trash. Obviously they're not literary classic and high brow literature but there are many of those books that are fun and entertaining. In my mind if you enjoy reading it then it shouldn't matter to anyone but you.
Oh, Spillane the Stephen King of the 50's? Surely he was better than that. He has...pistols on his book covers 🤭 Snoozerson could only wish his books were trash. 😴 Football and war, bring it on.
Trash to me would be horrible storytelling. Any genre, including the classics (very rare), if not written well, can be trash.
Certain books and writers might begin with commercial intent but over time they are recognized for some quality or strength that was not perceived during their original release. Burroughs, not a great writer but definitely had a good eye for story and character, while Lovecraft and Clark Adhton Smith live on while a lot of literary authors have disappeared yet the Weird Tales stalwarts continue in popularity and influence due to the depth of their imaginations. Spillane hacked his way through multiple novels but the power of his Mike Hammer character is dynamic enough to interest even jaded modern readers. Howard had real talent but the kind of stories he wtote pigeon-holed him into being seen as a cheap pulp writer disregarding his ability. The list could go on. Even Shirley Jackson lived in the shadow of her literary critic husband but her works are still and will continue to be in print while his are slumbering, which is not to say they were bad but their appeal has waned.The whole question of trash or quality is pretty subjective. It s best to read what you like and just enjoy it while you can, and if you re tempted - from time to time try something out of your comfort zone. I suspect Chandler is revered as he is because he took pulp to literary heights. By the way, the Spider novels are great reading.
The "Scholarly" Greek myths v. the "Trashy" Norse myths! Who cares-- I prefer the 1001 ARABIAN NIGHTS! Yeah, read whatever you like!
I don't judge anyone by what they choose to read, I think it is great that people read what they like and enjoy it but I think you are wrong about Jane Austen. Her books are amazing.
That's because mistborn is trash
apparently i only read trash then