Well I would argue that the tree does not become pagan, rather the actions surrounding it are pagan. The tree still belongs to the Lord, just as all of creation does. The tree itself cannot be pagan even if pagan rituals are associated with it. I would refer back to 1 Corinthians 8 where Paul makes a similar point about meat sacrificed to idols. It has no power over the believer because it is simply a piece of meat and believers have the Creator of the piece of meat within them to whom the piece of meat belongs. It’s more saying that the tree cannot be pagan
Elijah, on Mt Carmel, refused to touch the alter that was dedicated to pagan gods. But we as Christians take the one day out of 365/66 days in the year and offer it to God as a celebration to Him? All throughout the Bible God can be heard (as in 2 Kings 17) stating that He and paganism cannot be mixed. Why would we offer a holiday to Him that has been historically offered to the worship of paganism. Paganism cannot be made Christian, no matter how it is disguised as such. Even Elijah knew this and would ONLY offer a clean UNADULTERATED offering on a CLEAN alter that was built ONLY to God!
Did you watch the video and check the sources we provide? Historians have shown that there is no concrete evidence of these things stemming from paganism. There is more Christian influence than paganism, hence the video.
I don’t agree with your point that the early Christians did not celebrate Jesus’ birth because they were running for their life. The early Christians died for their obedience to God. If they were instructed by God to celebrate Jesus’ birth, they would have regardless of how they were persecuted. The were unadulterated. Jesus never instructed them to celebrate His birth every year. He did however instruct them to remember his death and resurrection. ☺️
I don't understand your reason for making this comment in light of commands. No one in the video implied it was commanded to celebrate the birth of Christ. The topic is on whether or not the reason we do celebrate it stems from pagan traditions which is the point of the video, not whether or not we were commanded to celebrate. Of course we should remember His death and resurrection. Caleb's point was more on the fact that due to their being hunted, there was not much time or reason to do a full on holiday like Christmas
Certainly, but the point I was making was that the early Church did not have the official date of Jesus’ birth because of its persecution. They could not very easily meet for ecumenical councils and this would have been such a minor issue to them that dating His birth wouldn’t have been discussed. Essentially, we do not know the exact date of Christ’s birth because the early Church did not and could not organize to establish it
@@closetevangelism I apologize if my comments came across the wrong way. That wasn’t my intention. I didn’t intend to come across rude. I apologize if it came across that way. It’s difficult through messages sometimes when the other person reading the comments cannot hear the tone along with the messages. I didn’t mean any malice. I enjoyed listening to your comments and hearing other opinions. 😊
@linnazr you're perfectly fine. Malice was not on the table for reading your messages. I was merely seeking clarification on some of your comments. Thank you for your input and courteous response!
Amazing man!
Thank you!
That disgusting feeling of hearing your own voice on a recording is just creeping up my spine. Thanks for having me on and giving me extreme nausea
The tree begins to be pagan when it is worshipped. How many people sit in their livingroom admiring and worshipping their Christmas tree?
No one we know, but it is an argument some try to make as if it is everyone
Well I would argue that the tree does not become pagan, rather the actions surrounding it are pagan. The tree still belongs to the Lord, just as all of creation does. The tree itself cannot be pagan even if pagan rituals are associated with it. I would refer back to 1 Corinthians 8 where Paul makes a similar point about meat sacrificed to idols. It has no power over the believer because it is simply a piece of meat and believers have the Creator of the piece of meat within them to whom the piece of meat belongs. It’s more saying that the tree cannot be pagan
Elijah, on Mt Carmel, refused to touch the alter that was dedicated to pagan gods. But we as Christians take the one day out of 365/66 days in the year and offer it to God as a celebration to Him? All throughout the Bible God can be heard (as in 2 Kings 17) stating that He and paganism cannot be mixed. Why would we offer a holiday to Him that has been historically offered to the worship of paganism. Paganism cannot be made Christian, no matter how it is disguised as such. Even Elijah knew this and would ONLY offer a clean UNADULTERATED offering on a CLEAN alter that was built ONLY to God!
Did you watch the video and check the sources we provide? Historians have shown that there is no concrete evidence of these things stemming from paganism. There is more Christian influence than paganism, hence the video.
1 Corinthians 8 my dude
I don’t agree with your point that the early Christians did not celebrate Jesus’ birth because they were running for their life. The early Christians died for their obedience to God. If they were instructed by God to celebrate Jesus’ birth, they would have regardless of how they were persecuted. The were unadulterated. Jesus never instructed them to celebrate His birth every year. He did however instruct them to remember his death and resurrection. ☺️
I don't understand your reason for making this comment in light of commands. No one in the video implied it was commanded to celebrate the birth of Christ. The topic is on whether or not the reason we do celebrate it stems from pagan traditions which is the point of the video, not whether or not we were commanded to celebrate. Of course we should remember His death and resurrection. Caleb's point was more on the fact that due to their being hunted, there was not much time or reason to do a full on holiday like Christmas
Certainly, but the point I was making was that the early Church did not have the official date of Jesus’ birth because of its persecution. They could not very easily meet for ecumenical councils and this would have been such a minor issue to them that dating His birth wouldn’t have been discussed. Essentially, we do not know the exact date of Christ’s birth because the early Church did not and could not organize to establish it
@@closetevangelism I apologize if my comments came across the wrong way. That wasn’t my intention. I didn’t intend to come across rude. I apologize if it came across that way. It’s difficult through messages sometimes when the other person reading the comments cannot hear the tone along with the messages. I didn’t mean any malice. I enjoyed listening to your comments and hearing other opinions. 😊
@ No not at all, we really appreciate hearing your thoughts and engaging with differing points of view!
@linnazr you're perfectly fine. Malice was not on the table for reading your messages. I was merely seeking clarification on some of your comments. Thank you for your input and courteous response!