I like platinum. I stack it. We sell it. But I have some problems with it. After doing a further deep dive on the fundamentals, I have some thoughts on it and in particular, with relation to silver. Let me explain. After hearing all this, what are your thoughts? Let us know in the comments. Buy your gold and silver bullion in Australia with FREE SHIPPING* from www.perthbullion.com.au
Platinum is the most accessible PGM for investment and stacking. It’s not priced for mine investment currently, and has not been for a while. It’s hard to believe it won’t at least keep pace with fiat debasement. Therefore, it’s probably one of the safer hedge investments in precious metals , with much less potential downside than potential upside.
A nicely reasoned take on platinum. I can't fault it. Platinum for speculation gold and silver for the backbone. Platinum is like putting $10 on that 25:1 horse just in case.
I bought platinum for a few reasons. It was half the price of gold of course. And I had an opportunity to buy rhodium back in like 2017 and I didn’t. It was$2400 an ounce. and of course, once I stocked up on platinum, the palladium price drop below the price of platinum and I had no more money to buy Palladium, but that’s OK. I will ride this roller coaster and then when I die, my daughter will take my medals and cash them all in at once because she’s an idiot and buy stupid stuff and not pay taxes, and then the IRS will come and take above mentioned stuff away. God bless America.
The problem with platinum? "It ain't Silver, nor is it as heavily manipulated as Silver, so when the music stops, it isn't going to be worth as much as Silver in the long run". Silver I will be able to trade for goods, one will not be able to do that as freely with Platinum. I agree with your humble opinion Rick.
Yeah the fundamentals don't seem to be there for platinum, barring a supply shock or a speculative play. I still add it though, as a secondary to gold. I'm not a silver bug, no matter the promise. It's just there for fun.
@@PerthBullionExchange If we wanted platinum to make a come back outside of industrial applications, it would have to be used in jewelry again. Gold is just so much more ostentatious though, would be hard to convince people to buy something silvery looking instead of gold. Plus it's harder to work with, so you'd have to convince the jewelers it's worth bothering with. The key marketing point is it's rarity. That would be the pitch and it's hardness and the fact that unlike gold which has tungsten as a problem, it's to nigh on impossible to create fake platinum.
@@dleetr I think the reason we don't see platinum so much in jewellery is its so difficult to work with and has such a high melt point. You're paying gold prices for platinum jewellery because of the labour cost which is lost completely most times on resale.
@@ozyrob1 Yeah, I put that in my post. jewelers would rather not use it. I was watching a video the other day from CNBC or somewhere and they were in the largest gold souk in the UAE which huge quantities of gold passes through and these shops make all of their jewelry on site with big rooms filled with guys banging away creating this or that, manipulating the metal with ease, because gold is so malleable, especially the high purity stuff that the Arabs prefer to buy (what's up with Australian jewelers, good grief). They have tiny margins too, relative to here. Anyway, I couldn't imagine them doing that with platinum, no way. So it's an uphill battle to get that metal back in the minds of anyone.
@dleetr Completely agree. It's completely foolish to buy muck of the gold jewellery manufactured and retailed in Australia. Much of it is low purity (9 or 14 carat) and is sold with ridiculous mark ups. Far better to buy gold from Thailand or Malaysia. Good quality, much higher purity and reasonable pricing.
The next iteration of green vehicles is hydrogen. Most people with a brain realise ev has its niche but isn’t suitable for all applications. Platinum is needed as the catalyst for the hydrogen reaction and will be a requirement in to the future.
Hydrogen will have its time in the future as the dominant fuel source however, there are a few factors to consider in regards to platinum demand and its implimentation time frames. Hydrogen cars are yet to be manufactured at scale, 1 key issue is that even at current PGM prices general estimates put the cost of a hydrogen production vehicle at nearly 3 times that of an electric vehicle. It's taken decades to take electric vehicles from small scale to mass production, I would not estimate anything different for hydrogen not least of all because current cost estimates will likely be a roadblock as they were for electric vehicles for so long. The current technology has only a 35-40% efficiency compared to EV's at 85-90% so it has a long way to go from being the dominant green solution. Given the high cost of PGMs there have already been studies that have proven silver as a cost-effective alternative to PGMs as a catalyst, a couple of key studies from memory were performed at Stanford and Oxford, likely easily found online. Current estimates that hydrogen vehicles use between 2-3 times as much PGM as current vehicles balanced on the probability of silver used as an alternative or mix to reduce cost along with electric vehicles still taking market share until economical scale of production occurs for hydrogen, I wouldn't be taking this as the saving grace to cause a platinum outperformance against the other precious metals. Currently electric vehicles make up 18% of all new car sales up from 14% the previous year. At current growth, if it takes even 5 years to mass-produce hydrogen vehicles electric will have a market share of close to 35%, of all cars which contain twice as much silver as ICE's. If we assume that hydrogen vehicles use mixed catalysts there's every possibility that they consume only a similar amount of PGM as current vehicles.
@ great analysis, you really have done your homework Ricky. Also worth noting is the location of pmg deposits (mainly Arica and Russia) the supply may be impacted negatively. Definitely not dumping everything for PT but I am branching out and diversifying, platinum to silver ratio and also platinum to gold ratio are looking interesting. I wouldn’t throw platinum out with the bath water, it will have its day. I’m playing the long game and the best time to accumulate is when it’s hated! All the best Ricky and cheers for the engaging content
It's great to get different perspectives because it allows you to do even more research and get a better view point. I think platinum is great for diversification the ratios are out of whack and it'll inevitably do better than fiat, just not my perferred hedge atm.
I buy gold, silver and platinum, and I think they all have bull cases. I think that TPTB pre program us, and there’s a reason the highest tier credit card, or membership, or class with a lot of products is platinum level and gold is below platinum from a marketing perspective. I also think there’s really no dedicated mines for it where silver has dedicated mines, if the price rises on silver miners will increase production because they can, but platinum is usually a byproduct of something else, so the price could really get out of hand
Perhaps we're looking at different data but the information I've sourced indicates the reverse of that. Primary silver mines only account for 25%-30% of global production. South Africa accounts for 65% of the global production being primary PGMs mines. PGMs typically occur together and are the source of primary mines. In these mines, platinum accounts for 60-70% of revenue, with palladium being another key contributor. As per my previous statement, palladium would contribute to supply as it can be used as an alternative. Another point is the secondary supply for PGMs, they are already feasible to recycle platinum group metals from automotive with current prices whilst catalytic converters have come into the life cycle, diesel engines subsequent DPF systems were only introduced from 2006-2017 and given a life cycle estimated to be 18 years for most vehicles we’ve yet to truly see this secondary supply come to market yet. Since recycling accounts for 15% of the current platinum supply this could be very significant. Links: market-news-insights-jpx.com/ose/commodities/article004441/ www.statista.com/statistics/253626/global-silver-production-by-primary-source/#statisticContainer www.mining.com/silver-miners-struggle-to-keep-up-with-demand/ www.statista.com/statistics/593072/platinum-recycled-worldwide-by-former-use/
I think platinum is will probably outperform silver over the next few years…gold might outperform platinum for a while longer but that ratio too will likely fall back towards 2.0 from 3.0 once it gets there…the economy has been stagnant for a very long time..the only thing keeping things from collapsing is money printing…and gold has benefited most from that because that is its sole purpose..where silver and platinum are more industrial metals that require a good economy to rise in price…silver has a touch of monetary value as well hence the reason it has outperformed Platinum since the modern monetary theory was adopted like gold…platinum group metals have their bull markets and they extend to move hard…I think in that will likely happen with platinum next since it was excluded from the last PGM bull run…it’s all about timing…things don’t need to make sense all the time…ratios have cycles and platinum is due for a bull cycle soon…palladium is in the middle of a bear market…same with rhodium…Iridium held its value quite well…platinum has been in a long term bear market like silver was for all those years…platinum looks like gold did in 2017…right before it broke out for a massive long term bull run
I like platinum. I stack it. We sell it. But I have some problems with it. After doing a further deep dive on the fundamentals, I have some thoughts on it and in particular, with relation to silver. Let me explain. After hearing all this, what are your thoughts? Let us know in the comments. Buy your gold and silver bullion in Australia with FREE SHIPPING* from www.perthbullion.com.au
Platinum is the most accessible PGM for investment and stacking. It’s not priced for mine investment currently, and has not been for a while. It’s hard to believe it won’t at least keep pace with fiat debasement. Therefore, it’s probably one of the safer hedge investments in precious metals , with much less potential downside than potential upside.
A nicely reasoned take on platinum. I can't fault it. Platinum for speculation gold and silver for the backbone. Platinum is like putting $10 on that 25:1 horse just in case.
I agree mate good to have a bit for diversification if there is a dramatic change but I'd rather be on more of a sure thing.
I bought platinum for a few reasons. It was half the price of gold of course. And I had an opportunity to buy rhodium back in like 2017 and I didn’t. It was$2400 an ounce. and of course, once I stocked up on platinum, the palladium price drop below the price of platinum and I had no more money to buy Palladium, but that’s OK. I will ride this roller coaster and then when I die, my daughter will take my medals and cash them all in at once because she’s an idiot and buy stupid stuff and not pay taxes, and then the IRS will come and take above mentioned stuff away. God bless America.
The problem with platinum? "It ain't Silver, nor is it as heavily manipulated as Silver, so when the music stops, it isn't going to be worth as much as Silver in the long run". Silver I will be able to trade for goods, one will not be able to do that as freely with Platinum. I agree with your humble opinion Rick.
Agreed, platinum may have its day but i think the longer the time horizon the more likely that silver wins out.
position size accordingly, nothing wrong with loading more when prices are down
Agreed
Silver could go up to $500-$1000 US Dollars per ounce in the future.
More likely back to $7 where it's spent most of the last 40 years.
@@GardenerEarthGuy 😂😂
As much as i hope your right, might be a bit optimistic in those targets
I think you’re right if CB go back to a PM backed currency that’s a low estimate probably much higher
@@GardenerEarthGuyAnd gold $500/ozt, and chicken breasts will go back to $1/lb.
Yeah the fundamentals don't seem to be there for platinum, barring a supply shock or a speculative play. I still add it though, as a secondary to gold. I'm not a silver bug, no matter the promise. It's just there for fun.
I really only look at fundamentals, and as far as i can see it doesnt add up
@@PerthBullionExchange If we wanted platinum to make a come back outside of industrial applications, it would have to be used in jewelry again. Gold is just so much more ostentatious though, would be hard to convince people to buy something silvery looking instead of gold. Plus it's harder to work with, so you'd have to convince the jewelers it's worth bothering with. The key marketing point is it's rarity. That would be the pitch and it's hardness and the fact that unlike gold which has tungsten as a problem, it's to nigh on impossible to create fake platinum.
@@dleetr I think the reason we don't see platinum so much in jewellery is its so difficult to work with and has such a high melt point. You're paying gold prices for platinum jewellery because of the labour cost which is lost completely most times on resale.
@@ozyrob1 Yeah, I put that in my post. jewelers would rather not use it. I was watching a video the other day from CNBC or somewhere and they were in the largest gold souk in the UAE which huge quantities of gold passes through and these shops make all of their jewelry on site with big rooms filled with guys banging away creating this or that, manipulating the metal with ease, because gold is so malleable, especially the high purity stuff that the Arabs prefer to buy (what's up with Australian jewelers, good grief). They have tiny margins too, relative to here. Anyway, I couldn't imagine them doing that with platinum, no way. So it's an uphill battle to get that metal back in the minds of anyone.
@dleetr Completely agree. It's completely foolish to buy muck of the gold jewellery manufactured and retailed in Australia. Much of it is low purity (9 or 14 carat) and is sold with ridiculous mark ups. Far better to buy gold from Thailand or Malaysia. Good quality, much higher purity and reasonable pricing.
The next iteration of green vehicles is hydrogen. Most people with a brain realise ev has its niche but isn’t suitable for all applications. Platinum is needed as the catalyst for the hydrogen reaction and will be a requirement in to the future.
Hydrogen will have its time in the future as the dominant fuel source however, there are a few factors to consider in regards to platinum demand and its implimentation time frames.
Hydrogen cars are yet to be manufactured at scale, 1 key issue is that even at current PGM prices general estimates put the cost of a hydrogen production vehicle at nearly 3 times that of an electric vehicle. It's taken decades to take electric vehicles from small scale to mass production, I would not estimate anything different for hydrogen not least of all because current cost estimates will likely be a roadblock as they were for electric vehicles for so long. The current technology has only a 35-40% efficiency compared to EV's at 85-90% so it has a long way to go from being the dominant green solution.
Given the high cost of PGMs there have already been studies that have proven silver as a cost-effective alternative to PGMs as a catalyst, a couple of key studies from memory were performed at Stanford and Oxford, likely easily found online.
Current estimates that hydrogen vehicles use between 2-3 times as much PGM as current vehicles balanced on the probability of silver used as an alternative or mix to reduce cost along with electric vehicles still taking market share until economical scale of production occurs for hydrogen, I wouldn't be taking this as the saving grace to cause a platinum outperformance against the other precious metals.
Currently electric vehicles make up 18% of all new car sales up from 14% the previous year. At current growth, if it takes even 5 years to mass-produce hydrogen vehicles electric will have a market share of close to 35%, of all cars which contain twice as much silver as ICE's. If we assume that hydrogen vehicles use mixed catalysts there's every possibility that they consume only a similar amount of PGM as current vehicles.
@ great analysis, you really have done your homework Ricky.
Also worth noting is the location of pmg deposits (mainly Arica and Russia) the supply may be impacted negatively.
Definitely not dumping everything for PT but I am branching out and diversifying, platinum to silver ratio and also platinum to gold ratio are looking interesting.
I wouldn’t throw platinum out with the bath water, it will have its day.
I’m playing the long game and the best time to accumulate is when it’s hated!
All the best Ricky and cheers for the engaging content
It's great to get different perspectives because it allows you to do even more research and get a better view point. I think platinum is great for diversification the ratios are out of whack and it'll inevitably do better than fiat, just not my perferred hedge atm.
I buy gold, silver and platinum, and I think they all have bull cases. I think that TPTB pre program us, and there’s a reason the highest tier credit card, or membership, or class with a lot of products is platinum level and gold is below platinum from a marketing perspective. I also think there’s really no dedicated mines for it where silver has dedicated mines, if the price rises on silver miners will increase production because they can, but platinum is usually a byproduct of something else, so the price could really get out of hand
Perhaps we're looking at different data but the information I've sourced indicates the reverse of that.
Primary silver mines only account for 25%-30% of global production.
South Africa accounts for 65% of the global production being primary PGMs mines.
PGMs typically occur together and are the source of primary mines. In these mines, platinum accounts for 60-70% of revenue, with palladium being another key contributor. As per my previous statement, palladium would contribute to supply as it can be used as an alternative.
Another point is the secondary supply for PGMs, they are already feasible to recycle platinum group metals from automotive with current prices whilst catalytic converters have come into the life cycle, diesel engines subsequent DPF systems were only introduced from 2006-2017 and given a life cycle estimated to be 18 years for most vehicles we’ve yet to truly see this secondary supply come to market yet. Since recycling accounts for 15% of the current platinum supply this could be very significant.
Links:
market-news-insights-jpx.com/ose/commodities/article004441/
www.statista.com/statistics/253626/global-silver-production-by-primary-source/#statisticContainer
www.mining.com/silver-miners-struggle-to-keep-up-with-demand/
www.statista.com/statistics/593072/platinum-recycled-worldwide-by-former-use/
I think platinum is will probably outperform silver over the next few years…gold might outperform platinum for a while longer but that ratio too will likely fall back towards 2.0 from 3.0 once it gets there…the economy has been stagnant for a very long time..the only thing keeping things from collapsing is money printing…and gold has benefited most from that because that is its sole purpose..where silver and platinum are more industrial metals that require a good economy to rise in price…silver has a touch of monetary value as well hence the reason it has outperformed Platinum since the modern monetary theory was adopted like gold…platinum group metals have their bull markets and they extend to move hard…I think in that will likely happen with platinum next since it was excluded from the last PGM bull run…it’s all about timing…things don’t need to make sense all the time…ratios have cycles and platinum is due for a bull cycle soon…palladium is in the middle of a bear market…same with rhodium…Iridium held its value quite well…platinum has been in a long term bear market like silver was for all those years…platinum looks like gold did in 2017…right before it broke out for a massive long term bull run
The ratios are an interesting situation, will be interesting to see if they play out on a technical basis.
You should get to the point.
It makes allot sense, i like your wide spectrum thinking... 👍
Thanks mate, looking longer term i think requires broader thinking and I'd rather be right in 10 years then 12 months
💯