Ancient Greek Crossbow I made
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2023
- I made this Gastraphetes crossbow after seeing the reproduction made by Tod's Workshop. Modern reproduction trigger by Acroballistics
I would dispute the idea that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) was invented/engineered in Alexandria Egypt. Certainly, Heron of Alexandria *wrote about it in his 'Belopoeica', but that dates from the 1st century AD. An earlier work, the 'Κατασκευαὶ πολεμικῶν ὀργάνων καὶ καταπαλτικῶν ('The Construction of War-machines and Catapults') by Biton of Pergamon dating from either the 3rd or 2nd century BC says of the gastraphetes: "Let the proposed belly-bow (γαστραφέτης) be the one which Zopyrus of Tarentum designed at Miletus." (Biton, 'Construction of War Machines', 61-62). The German scholar Hermann Diels, in his 'Antike Technik' (22-23) put forward the plausible theory that Zopyrus of Tarentum might also be the mathematician known as Zopyrus the Pythagorean in which case he would have lived no later than the mid-4th century BC. Moreover, there is also a theory that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) might have been invented by the engineers of Dionysius I of Syracuse in circa 399 BC.
However, it is not the first crossbow invented with archeological evidence. A burial find of a repeating crossbow already exist around 400 BC in China while bronze triggers are as old as 600 BC. But the crossbow itself is likely a stone age invention of unknown origin with primitive triggers. 
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Thanks for the shout out! There is no clear evidence on who/when/where it was invented. Heron just gave a description of it as an introduction to his book belopoeika. Push pawls are more difficult to operate than pull pawls I don't know why most depictions have push pawls..
Thanks! Upon deeper look I would also dispute the idea that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) was *invented* in Alexandria in Egypt. Certainly, Heron of Alexandria *wrote* about it in his 'Belopoeica', but that dates from the 1st century AD. An earlier work, the 'Κατασκευαὶ πολεμικῶν ὀργάνων καὶ καταπαλτικῶν ('The Construction of War-machines and Catapults') by Biton of Pergamon dating from either the 3rd or 2nd century BC says of the gastraphetes: "Let the proposed belly-bow (γαστραφέτης) be the one which Zopyrus of Tarentum designed at Miletus." (Biton, 'Construction of War Machines', 61-62). The German scholar Hermann Diels, in his 'Antike Technik' (22-23) put forward the plausible theory that Zopyrus of Tarentum might also be the mathematician known as Zopyrus the Pythagorean in which case he would have lived no later than the mid-4th century BC. Moreover, there is also a theory that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) *might* have been invented by the engineers of Dionysius I of Syracuse in circa 399 BC.
Yes a pull pawl would of worked better for the direction of this slider so I didn’t need a blocker
@@HistoricalWeapons foot-operated?
I would love to see a matchlock video at the range.
I'd love to see a custom fit 300lbs version for very large people.
Or two men
that trad white bow is dazzling.
Alibow h1 110@28
i knew i recognized the salish sea from the last few slinging videos! this new range is beautiful, love victoria :)
Perhaps it was not an issue to the greeks but it seems like it is impossible to use that device safely. There is no stopper to stop the string, and so the 'triangle of death' extends from the trigger to a little bit ahead of the rest point of the bowstring. Yet the bolts are short so it doesn't seem possible to place the bolt holding it by the front, keeping your hands out of the 'triangle of death'. In a more modern world, we try to put safety first, there are solutions (like using a mechanical bolt release instead of manually placing the bolt by hand) but ancient engineers often overlooked these kinds of safety concerns.
Lol if that’s the case they wouldn’t use slingers
I mean are there even proof they were actually used on a battlefield?
Why do people care so much which race invented it?
I would dispute the idea that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) was *invented* in Alexandria in Egypt. Certainly, Heron of Alexandria *wrote* about it in his 'Belopoeica', but that dates from the 1st century AD. An earlier work, the 'Κατασκευαὶ πολεμικῶν ὀργάνων καὶ καταπαλτικῶν ('The Construction of War-machines and Catapults') by Biton of Pergamon dating from either the 3rd or 2nd century BC says of the gastraphetes: "Let the proposed belly-bow (γαστραφέτης) be the one which Zopyrus of Tarentum designed at Miletus." (Biton, 'Construction of War Machines', 61-62). The German scholar Hermann Diels, in his 'Antike Technik' (22-23) put forward the plausible theory that Zopyrus of Tarentum might also be the mathematician known as Zopyrus the Pythagorean in which case he would have lived no later than the mid-4th century BC. Moreover, there is also a theory that the γαστραφέτης (gastraphetes) *might* have been invented by the engineers of Dionysius I of Syracuse in circa 399 BC.
Don't play into the youtube trolls man. Just ignore them. Love the vids dude
Block people try so hard to claim advanced engineeeing projects
@@lo0nyt0onz True
Even recreational crossbows of the later ages, which were not mass produced, weren't designed in such a way. I think the design of this weapon is completely lost through time, and the new cocking-mechanism arrived in Europe from the East, and that is why the European crossbows became the way it is today.
It seems somewhat unlikely that Europeans learned about crossbows from the Chinese, even indirectly. The mechanisms are mechanically very different and unlike gunpowder, there is no plausible eastern link. The various Persian and Islamic empires never really used crossbows, for example, and when they did it was credited as a European invention.
My guess is European crossbows were independently invented first as a hunting weapon, much like African and Inuit examples, and then developed into a military weapon later. The Picts had hunting crossbows as early as the 600’s, and I doubt that knowledge of Chinese weapons would have made it that far
@@karatekan2182 7th century was 200 years after the Huns.
@@karatekan2182 no the Persians mentioned using some kind of a crossbow device which fired several arrows together, by the calvary.
If you get into guns, I would love if you could try to get a repro of a east Asian gun dart, popular before the devloppement of matchlock weapons. I always wanted to see powder propelled darts tested.
Like rocket arrows?
@@HistoricalWeapons Shen Qiang (神鎗) or Chongtong (총통) in korean
@@theghosthero6173I’ll check it out
I was looking at it like damn.. nice copper work and then you said it was painted hahahaha still amazing of course!!!!
Lol that’s so hard
Awesome looking. It would be nice to try to shoot it by rotating it 90 degrees like a normal bow and bracing the belly fork on the shoulder like a gun stock. The arrow can be held in place with the thumb or with a spring clip like that of medieval crossbows. That would solve the problem of aiming properly. Cheers!
I found that the belly stick can be used as a nice cheek rest but without safety glasses I prefer away from my eyes
@@HistoricalWeapons So the stock isn't long enough to rest it on the shoulder? B%mmer. Perhaps the aiming problem was what stopped it's adoption. Basically the version recorded by Heron of Alexandria in Belopoeica goes all the way back to Syracuse in 400 BC. But it could not have sprung from nowhere so it has to be based on a simpler crossbow that worked although we have no record of it.
@@AggelosKyriou Maybe not a Crossbow at all but the Arrow Sleeves in Turkey where they used very light and small arrows? They Got the Idea from those devices on the shooting hand to help with the use of small arrows?
@@AggelosKyriou " it has to be based on a simpler crossbow " I beg to disagree.
Having some experience in product development I'd say this is the original crossbow. This is how a new technology product concept always starts.
Looks like someone came up with the idea of a "mechanical archer" and just figured out the first overly complicated way to implement it.
Once the concept was proven, other people came up with easier and more efficient ways to get it done.
Latter examples are eg. wheel lock -> flint lock or Maxim -> Sten
Imagine this at 1000lbs like the windless crossbow😅😹
Need metal slider
Would be interesting to see the tools used at the time next to Create this crossbow and a simpler from later. May be it needed to demanding prerquisites, as an saw for cutting the rail straight, etc. and may be maintenance was comparably more demanding for a.e the trigger mecano when used in campaigns, in the dirt..simplicity has some longterm benefits often.
Do crossbows made with bamboo please
Plenty. Check my Asian ones
Timewise.. when was this developped? I wonder in the moment why crossbows have so much shorter power strokes than bows..may be because of the pull mecanos? Because a shorter power strokes pushes for more draw weight, what again asks for more complex pull mecanos..a complex question
100 A.D. by the way Chinese crossbow have long powestroke
@@oackman9250 Thanks for that info! okay at 100 A.D was some turning point in china..interesting! May be I can correlate this once to something, but I am not really familiar with chinese warfare history.
@@tatumergo3931 Hi Tatum- Thanks for the explanations! seen some of Tod's comparisons on old/new crossbows as well. But the right comparison here would be a bow of the same timeframe. The stress on the limbs is equal. Probably a greater stress on the string (due friction on the rail), but with greasing, it can be easened. And the stress on the trigger system can deal with rather high pull forces. I am sceptical of this explanation, as there was draw weight of up to 1000lbs on crossbows, and the string had to deal with this.
Crossbows are hold next to the shoulder,, rectangular and the arms have a shorter reach in this position, while for bowshooting, the shooter stands tangential to the bow and has a longer reach. May be this was a constraint. As Jörg Sprave's "Instant Legolas" has shown, a design where the limbs are vertically aligned like a bow, the shooter can use the full arm length, so that would have overcome this constraint. So why did no one came up with this ? Tod Actually tried out an medieval version of Instant Legolas and showed, that design was possible at that time.
The Chinese composite crossbows proved that you can have similar to hand bow power strokes. Simply have a longer bow. Now is it awkward? Yes. It’s not a skimish weapon
@@oackman9250 By the way German Vollrüstung have long powestroke.
I am wondering would you be able to use this to span a bow with a much heavier draw-weight such as 300 pounds or above. Would pulling back the string be more efficient in spanning the crossbow or would pushing forward be more efficient? What is the difference between pushing forward and drawing backward for a much heavier draw-weight prod?
I doubt it. With someone weighting 160lbs he would struggle to push 300lb
Pulling is easier with portable mechanical device
@@HistoricalWeapons if the person would be struggling pushing 300 pounds draw weight, wouldnt that be a reason why this type of crossbow fall out of favor as well because as armor develops so the need for stronger crossbow?
@@HistoricalWeapons It should be physically impossible for someone weighing 160 lbs to push 300 lbs. He would only be pushing himself up rather than the crossbow down.
@@peasantmob1712 yeah perhaps your right. I assume these were under 300lbs simply because the wood slider walls would have to be metal
Awesome Jack. I'm far from accurate with a sling, but against large bodies of troops it'd still be deadly. Lots of practice & "you don't eat until you hit it" would produce accuracy. I'm an archer, but for ancient Greece I'd choose the sling. Arrows are expensive or time consuming to make & will run out, but even after you've used all your lead, clay or carefully chosen stones up, you can usually find stones or rocks, plus you can carry a small shield too. You can make slings from stripping the outer layer of(de-thorned) bramble stems plaited, so wherever there's brambles, you can make a sling. Many other materials can be used instead too.
P.S. Nice for the local Crow to say "Hi".
Exactly and you can hit and run better and not worry about consuming anmo
Ah yes the amazing Gastraphetes, the Greeks were surely something, what an amazing period in the West. I can see this as a great way to train people that didnt know how to use a bow in city defence. Or in overall siege attack.
Very interesting
One kind of random thing that occurred to me is that a weapon like this could allow someone who had been partially disabled to remain somewhat effective at range. A soldier could take an injury to their arm that never heals properly and makes it impossible for them to use a bow or sling effectively, but might still be able to use a bow like this since the most strenuous part of shooting is just leaning against it.
this concave belly stock will actually be better for repeating crossbows
True
Very good 👍
This is just a smaller ballista except it doesn't use a cocking mechanism for some reason.
Nice - Thanks ! !
😎👍
Yes
I have a light 30# mongol bow by alibow lying around, amd id like to try converting it into a crossbow. Have you got any resources/videos/anything on how you make these?
🎉
Beast
some time ago i made 50 of these devices in my campaign against the viking odin and the egyptian ra. FYI I use the greek hades
So many trolls
Africa invented trolls, stop stealing our culture. 🌍✊🏿
Is that a range tag
You have it right. The weapon you can use is the weapon thats the best.
After that the bow is my option. Too. Its faster reload than crossbow and has better long range accuracy too.
So spear
@@TemujinKhan no i would rather a short blade and bow or crossbow. Spear is unwieldy in certain situations. CQB being one. You can always use modern bows and crossbows some crossbows are even repeating. I would avoid anything that is too large and untrained in.
Not that much of a drive to that range for me. I live across the highway from it.
Let’s go shoot
3:35 not to mention with those you can’t really aim them nor to me could you really shoot up or downward
Thumbs up
🗿👍🏿
Isn’t it Egyptian
😂
It’s African
It’s more Greek than Egyptian
It’s African! Black people invented it
#blacklivesmatter
WE
claiming it’s black or white…lol I’m not getting into politics about this subject
@@HistoricalWeapons Could be both. Egypt was ruled by a Greek dynasty (Ptolomy) for a few hundred years. I hear Cleopatra VII was a classic Greek beauty... ;)
Black people invented it
.
#blacklivesmatter
😂
Irrelevant context
BLM 😂
Bruh