I'm all for Wyrmwood buying up a huge parcel of land and building a massive custom facility on the condition that that loading dock door remains tiny. I am *NOT* about to give up seeing them ram giant pieces of machinery through an opening that was built for Smurfs.
_One_ loading dock has to be tiny. It's the christening dock. Every new piece of machinery is shoved through the christening dock as a tradition. The rest is through other, normal docks for loading and unloading and other dock stuff
The big problem with moving to another site is potential loss of skilled employees due to shitty commutes. Employees generally aren't as mobile due to built up personal/financial ties to an area.
yeah i think it would have to be someplace really close to where theyre at unless theyre able to pay to move everyone and the new location is just SO good that most/all of the staff is happy to go there. the latter part is the least likely.
@@cenewgent A build-to-suit can be made to modern (LEED, for example) standards that an old building can't hope to match. If embodied carbon is taken into account then yeah existing building is very heavily favoured but it starts to depend on the timescale. Heck, a competent architect would have the roof of a new build full of solar panels. Boom, WyrmPower and a passive revenue stream.
Another soft cost to consider is the inevitable amount of downtime that comes with moving your operation. It's going to take time and resources to move all your equipment, get it all setup, recalibrated, deal with all the issues that comes with. A day of zero production is a real cost, multiple days or weeks can be devastating.
If you do build *or* buy, look into overbuilding/buy with the ability to partition the space up and lease out the part you aren't using right then. Allows for later expansion, and might give you another revenue stream in the meantime.
Maybe they could convince Karen to set up a Dispel Dice branch in the hypothetical empty space. Actually on that thought, they could specifically build out multiple spaces for all the companies they've had collaborations with in the past. And the metal working guy next door!
@@Reyn_Roadstorm unfortunately dispel dice requires the lower wages found overseas, I realise Karen is not running sweat shops and cares for her employees but they probably still earn considerably less than an American workforce even if they have good wages for their region
I think having a new facility would be better, so long as you have room to expand for more machinery, to produce new products and existing products faster.
pretty much the only site that sounded as good as a fresh slate would be something like a sams club. a huge open high roof'd building, easy to modify, easy to add on to. but would that be cheaper than starting from scratch? that's the fun part
Another thing owning gives you is the property owner can't evict you if you own it. If the property owner dies and their kids decide they want to demolish and build or w.e you can lose everything.
A lot less likely to happen in commercial real estate. As they mentioned. You get huge profits because the tenant pays for all the improvements and repairs.
@@dogbert32 agreed. But less likely doesn't mean not possible. Especially in the situation where the owner passes and the kids don't want to deal with the hassle. Now I will give you that usually the leasee gets the chance to purchase the property, but not always say the owner has liens and such against the property. Low chances I know but chances none the less.
@@lisliaer7999 Funny thing is then the renters can litterly rip out everything they put in out of spite and put it back the way it was when they started renting it and suddenly the owners got a building thats back to the 90's in capabilities :P.
@@Ormathon iirc that exact scenario happened to the car wizard. Property owner short notice evicted them, and when they moved it it was just a bare steel building so they took everything out lol. And apparently the guy still can't offload the property. 😆 But the big point is even with that spite you still have to have a place to put all of the equipment and stock fast.
Have you looked at your current lease and figured out how much it would cost for you to leave the current property? Turnover conditions could be a huge cost if your current lease sucks.
Yeah, Doug complains a bit about the cost every time they get a new machine and have to run power/etc. Guess what, now the capacity has grown, moving to a new building means you need to pay riggers, movers, electrical, be prepared for days/weeks of downtime during the move, and the expensive machines might break in transit/setup so now you're calling in a tech to debug (if you can schedule them). I certainly hope the equity on the facility is worth that to them if they continue this process
@@theJmanStriketh well not only that but what sort of shape does the lease say you have to leave the building? Do you have to rip out all of the infrastructure that was installed? Broom clean? Decommissioning a lease can be quite expensive and would be an expense on a P&L so it’s not an insignificant hit. But yeah, to your point how much down time in production to get moved and set back up? And at what cost?
@@theJmanStriketh The thing is though, unless they're planning on renting for forever, the longer they keep waiting with it, the larger these things will stack up to make the calculation more and more unfavorable. They're already saying that they're running into a lot of problems with their current facilities, those problems aren't going to magically go away by themselves in the coming 30 years, and if you're moving facilities, then moving from a rented space into something they've purpose-built themselves isn't gonna cost more to move than moving from one rented space to another rented space, not when it comes to the costs of the move itself.
@@neruneri Totally agree! The conversation is phrased in the video as "we're spending $X on rent and have $Y in the bank, let's get some of that equity!" Since they're NNN they're already nearly in an owner-like situation financially, but reducing the costs to "we built/bought/rented a new building *claps dust from hands*" isn't the whole picture when they've put to camera some of the throughput issues they've had in the shop. Maybe they put up with some sub-optimal shop conditions for 3-4 years to get production/finance to where it's reasonable to move. But building/buying might take that long anyway. And I have a high level of confidence they're actively including these costs in their inner room conversations, it's just on the editing floor. Reducing the story to a 10 minute for-the-fans format means we lose some depth in the presentation. I'm totally prepared though for Doug (who is smart enough to plan long-term for the company, and understands, and will pay necessary short term costs for long-term benefit) to complain about how closing out the lease and moving all the machinery is expensive and causing production issues. Free drama for the camera, and not untrue to his real feelings.
As someone who got his Bachelors in Economics , I have to interject. Doug , I love you man, but many of you opinion on inflation are misinformed. 1.THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT HIGH INFLATION. The government is actively trying to slow in inflation. The Federal Reserve (The big government bank that controls the money) is actively try to combat high inflation. High inflation let unchecked leads to a decrease in purchasing power for the average American. Federal politicians usually get voted out if inflation remains high. There is a direct political incentive to keep inflation in check. Around 2% inflation is the historic target. 2. The 8.4% CPI number is Headline CPI. Headline CPI has a history of being deceiving because it includes Oil and Food in it calculous. Oil and Food are notoriously more volatile than the rest of the economy. Both of those commodities have risen dramatically from the War in Ukraine. Unless another major disturbance happens, the prices will become more reasonable overtime. Core CPI excludes oil and food. It was around 6.5%. Still High but, nowhere near the 10% Jason was suggesting 3. Your synopsis of how markets react to high inflation is mostly correct but, incomplete. Both Extremely High and extremely low inflation is bad. Extremely Low rates of inflation incentives people to invest more money into riskier assets for higher returns. This primes the economy for market bubbles. Once the bubble pops it will lead to recession .
@@CazialsChannel federal reserve...FEDERAL as in federal government. The fed was established in 1913 by woodrowe wilson help stop bank failures in the US. It is most definitely a government agency.
@@kevinmills1711 Yeah it's an independent government agency and is held accountable to the public and Congress. The regional banks are different... and one of Doug's favorite listening people has some strong and not at all correct opinions on the matter; not that facts matter to a man who makes money repeating conspiracy nonsense
Agreed. Similarly, this may be the worst time to be contemplating taking on debt since the Fed's response to inflation is going to be hiking interest rates across 2022 and 2023 until inflation stops rising (or a recession starts). Unless you can somehow work out this deal in the next weeks, you're just going to be locking yourself into a higher interest rate to avoid inflation that the higher interest rates are meant to defeat.
Doug is pitching to load up on debt to purchase a depreciating asset at the top of a real estate bubble when rates are skyrocketing. Might want to get a second opinion.
Does he intent to race the pop of the real estate bubble? I am pretty sure that USA want to hold a low inflation %, like around 2-3% I think? Whatever politicians will come up with to combat the rising inflation could fuck with the plans, right?
@@guidohywuler9916 Target central bank inflation is 2-3%, yep. Whether that's achievable after the quantitative easing since 2008... well I'm a commenter on a YT video, don't ask me. :)
To be fair an $18M construction costs isn’t bad when it’s all in after the cash contribution. Any bank will lend you up to 80% of the cost to build and then let you add the last 20% in cash. SBA backed loans are a great idea to cover that, but they’ll also want to look at guarantees from the owner. Any bank will allow you to add the current rent back to the performance (EBITDA) of the company as means to cover the debt service of the mortgage. But you’ve also got to be consider any other financing needs such as equipment loans/ lines of credit. The goal should be for Wyrmwood to aim for a 1.25:1 debt coverage ratio - or 1.25 of EBITDA to every dollar of income. But this is only when you’re property is built and stable (complete) since it will mostly interest only during the time it’s being built.
I think moving to a new facility will be a logistical nightmare in the short term; however, it can be a great opportunity to have the building you want that you own in the long term.
I would say now is not the time to look into buying property or building one as all the prices are jacked up. I'd sit on this idea for a year or two and see where things shake out.
Excellent episode!! Thank you yet again for including the community in these behind the scene''s decision making and brainstorming! I can't get enough of these videos!
I like how Doug only talked about debt and cash and left out investing that money somewhere else. Land can be an investment, but right now prices are inflated so it may not be the best investment. Also, you can invest money without going in debt... which is what Frank was trying to point out. Also the one question no one asked was how much it would cost to move all your current equipment or get all new equipment. That would be a huge one-time cost that may make it not worth moving.
I don't think the cost of moving is as important as you make it out to be. The thing is, they're going to have to pay that cost no matter what they do, because as they say in this video, their current facilities aren't going to be sustainable for growth in the long-term. They're going to have to move eventually. Whether they move now or in ten years doesn't change this. Neither does whether or not they move from one rental to another rental or get their own land. Either way, the video makes it very clear that they will have to move at some point, thus, they're going to have to pay this cost no matter what.
@@neruneri You move when you need to or when a great opportunity comes through, not when Doug gets an itch. Nothing they said indicates that there is a pressing need. Especially with prices being so high and the supply chain restricted, now is one of the worst times to contemplate this. The opportunity cost is all of the other things that they could do with the money to positively impact the bottom line. Plus, moving will be more expensive than you are anticipating. Hundreds of thousands of dollars just in rigging and transporting all of their machinery, more in getting technicians and trades out to hook them back up. All while not producing any product. It could go south so fast and so badly.
@@involunteer Yes, and in this video they are explicit about the fact that they *need* to move, because their current location is a bottleneck hindering them. Your line of reasoning presumes that not-moving is an option, but the video itself states that not-moving is not actually an option. The thing they're discussing is whether to go to a new rented space or to build their own. Moving is, in itself, necessary. Thus, paying for that move is, in itself, necessary. If you know you have to move, waiting with moving has its own costs. Moving is going to be immensely more expensive in both real costs and opportunity costs in five years than it is now, because there will be more stuff to move. The faster they move, the cheaper it is. Because let's be clear about something, not-moving is not an option in the long-term. They have to eat those costs. Choosing to delay moving has its own opportunity costs too, because as they state in this current video, they are having problems scaling up their production because they can't set up more machines in an efficient workflow. This also costs them money. Not-moving is actively costing them money too.
IF the building you're in is having you shoe-horn everything, it would be beneficially to see 1) how expensive it would be to add features you want/remove problems and if it's even possible from a regulatory standpoint (eg. add loading docks, parking, etc.). Since you've already put so much into the property already. 2) how expensive would it be to purchase and renovate an existing building (especially considering you'll need to redo nearly all the renovations you've done to the current building). and finally 3) compare it to an estimated cost to design, acquire land, and permits for a new building from scratch. I _suspect_ option 2) is the cheapest option, but I really don't know for sure.
Started looking through the videos as I am scheduled to get my new table early next year. As someone who has been analyzing commercial real estate for the past quarter century you are barely scratching the surface of costs to build from the ground up… it will be interesting to see where you landed.
Build to suit a 150k sqft new building in Myles Standish. Get a 50-80 stall parking lot, 8-12 bay loading dock, exterior dust collection, better office and conference spaces, plus one huge door for new equipment to be delivered through.
So when you leave the building, do you remove the hardware you put in such as the electricity? Or do you get any compensation from the owners leaving it in? I mean, you made huge improvements where they can use that as selling points to another renter or as justification for raising rent rates.
Usually you take everything unless you are getting evicted with asset forfeiture. They might even charge you for leaving behind all the custom electrical. Custom electrical, shelving all that stuff, its all custom and set for their very specific business, they cannot sell it to someone else as they likely have no use for it, they would need to scrap most of it or reorganize it, and that costs money, so its cheaper for them to tell you to take your stuff out before you leave.
Yeah Murasaur's 100% right here. LLs want to lease building *space* and clients want it empty so they can fit it up to their needs. As Doug touched on, the lease is for everything in the building shell; the LL just provides the building.
Build your own place. You can customize it they way you want without having to settle on the few choices that only meet part of your needs. In addition, if you build it large enough, you can lease out part of your building to other companies and make money that way. Also, look for places outside of the state (come to Delaware). If you can find a place where the taxes are cheaper and has better access for transportation, that may work out for you.
Ok, ok, hear me out....Northwest Arkansas. Good quality of life in the Fayetteville/Bentonville/Springdale metro area and lots of infrastructure already in place while still having lower CoL.
"Should we stay, or should we go?" ; Go, or stay, do what helps you guys make more money, make more product, make more types of products. But, if you do build a place; think about adding in a learning workshop to help kids (highschool?) to learn the wood working trades as well as the g-code trades. You guys would have an amazing impact, and I believe the inflation dynamic you are discussing is going to lead to a lot more US based companies and in the US, we do love our wood. Wyrmwood 4 Life!
Doug. I (for another week but ill still recommend them) work for a heavy commercial/industrial architecture firm out of Baltimore who specializes in structures of the scale Wyrmwood needs. If you want to actually discuss the process and costs of building from scratch, id be happy to put you in touch with my boss
Come on down to the eastern shore of Maryland. Apparently shipping rates are so much more cheaper here, the store I work at had to fulfill online orders from Philly and surrounding areas at Christmas time because the company realized how much cheaper it was to ship. My fulfillment hours tripled this past holiday season.
As a mechanical engineer/project manager that builds high stack shell warehouses on the west coast definitely consider oversizing the property versus what you think you currently need (rent out the extra space). Current design to construction completion period is approximately 20+ months typically. Unfortunately, current construction is drastically different than pre-corona. Costs of materials is slowly coming back down but are really high, and lead times on material (especially steel/roof construction framing and major equipment) is extremely long (14 months roof framing/steel, 9 months major mech/elec equipment). The plus side is that the time spent in design phase hasn't really changed much (approximately 4-6 months) so hopfully construction rebounds in the time it takes you to figure out what you want.
There's one thing you have to worry about with inflation and debt. Interest. Unless you have a contract stating you have a fixing, unchanging interest rate, your debters are going to mark you up for the difference by jacking up your interest so they can still make money off you.
If you do decide to build your own place, central PA (Harrisburg, Scranton, Allentown) is very good. Convient access to major roads (80, 95), cheap land, and about an hour away from major cities.
As Doug said, this is complex. 1) Assuming you're going to build to suit, how long will that take? 2) How will commutes change? 3) How will delivery routes and shipping routes change? 4) How much is power and water at the new site? If the building is cheaper but power is expensive, you might be taking a big hit because of all the power you use. 5) Insurance was mentioned. How will that change? Better building materials might mean savings in operating costs. 6) Is there any grant money available for building a commercial site? Since you buy local and hire local where possible, there might be a tax incentive to build. 7) Do you even like your landlord? Tenants will often move to a new site just to get out from under a crappy landlord. 8) What about owning your OEN commercial space to rent? I know there are lots of small shops in your complex...would any of THEM be willing to come with you? You build more space than you need and rent the extra out to other businesses.
Another way to look at the cost / benefit analysis of a new property / expansions the is the marginal cost: how much would it cost you to build the next 10k sq. ft. at each site? Because you not only want to replace what you currently have, but want room to grow. So if current property is $500k/yr and you can get more at $5/sq. ft. at what size of a brand new facility is it worth it. If a new building comes to an equivalent $800k/yr, but you get equity, and the process flow is better, and better access to the site, those little thing add up in the intangible safety/quality of life bucket. Major assumption is that the capabilities of each locations are the same (ceiling height, electrical hookups, ease of access for trucking, layout restrictions, building health, etc.), because you be interested in paying $1/sqft if the ceiling doesn't leak, its more energy efficient so your utility bill is less, and there's no asbestos so you can configure and renovate to your hearts desire. Also don't forget the workforce - are they happier with the new location (cooler places to live, closer to home, better lunch spots other than poutine, etc.)
Why not just invest into more machinery? Jason said it himself, the cnc is an asset that generates profit. Buying more tools and machinery would generate profit now as opposed to a building that generates equity slowly over time. Especially now with MGT 2.0 and Sit Stand Desk coming up.
They've run out of floor space, and run out of ways to efficiently set up workflow to take advantage of new machines. Buying more machines as an asset to generate value is inherently worth less to them in their current situation than it would be if they moved because of this. They're basically running into bottlenecks, which means they're going to have to move facilities at some point.
I've heard this be explained so many different times and never understood it until Doug did his thing. I now understand the logic behind wanting debt over cash
@Wyrmwood i would consider how long you plan to have this business. Long term?= build and own. When its paid off all is net $$ If you plan on short term/ “make the money to retire and sell the brand” Then stay with renting. And someone will buy the brand with a better location ready to go At least thats my quick thoughts. Cant wait to see more!!
I think you don't worry about moving or building unless the current space can no longer accommodate growth. When the time comes for you to rent or buy an additional property to expand, then you consider building something new that can replace existing and cover expansion. If you wait until then it isn't just "does the new mortgage cost as much as our current rent", it's "does the new mortgage cost as much as our current rent plus a new building's rent".
Compared to the $18 million, it's pretty small, but I'd suspect it'll be a few hundred thousand. It's a lot of money, but likely not enough to push the needle in either direction on a decision like this.
That honestly sounds like the worst solution. It might be cheaper than building something from scratch, but that's only in the immediate short term. At the end of the day, they would be paying millions for something they won't own.
Just my 2 cents, don't do a 5% cap rate (20 year return on investment). I am more conservative and do 10 years, but I can see stretching to 13 or 15 years (about 7% cap rate)
I think you should take your modular concepts to heart and build your own facility. But have the architect design it with modularity in mind, such that it can be easily expanded if/when the company grows.
I would recommend looking at pennsylvania for a new location, I don't know the laws on manufacturing facilities. I just think it's good to try keep a large scale business localized to cut down on communication delay and the cost of shipping between locations. But what do I know I could be total wrong
Not sure how it works in the states but where I'm from leasing is normally better because your lease is wholly deducted from revenue where in a purchase you're deductions are less.
Diversify! Wyrmwood could do both. You guys could put a down payment on a new building and buy into the stock market. Should something happen to the primary business you can sell off stocks to keep it afloat or purchase new equipment if needed. The stocks could also be used as a break glass incase of emergency account. They can also be used to pay taxes at the end of the year. Various options. But a building is limited in what it can do for you.
I have to say this, not that it really matters, but because it's really bothering me. Your real estate broker said an acre was 43,750 square feet but it's actually 43,560 square feet. I'm a forester and we use that value in a lot of calculations so that's where I'm coming from.
All of the business talk in this episode went entirely over my head lol. All I took from this was that Moses is exactly the kind of guy Wyrmwood should be working with; he matches the energy of the company well lolll. Whatever you guys decide I hope it works out!
Yeah, inflation's crazy. I bought a place in 2020. Now, my house is worth 30% more than the sticker price. My net worth dollar amount increased more from owning/maintaining my house than it did from working 40hr/week.
While I do feel it could be an attempt to lead customers in a "guilt trip" or "understanding of life" direction, I greatly appreciate the fact that they post parts of the daily company life.
If you're interested in moving to a different state, I'd look in West Michigan. Was pretty diversified and had a lot of furniture business before the whole car crash of detroit so west michigan didn't get hit as hard, beautiful area of the state, some amazing cities; grand rapids is awesome, really blowing up lot of huge medical research and hospitals and college, tun of microbreweries, restaurants, art festivals, comedy festivals, etc. Only problem is that like everywhere cost of living is going up since its such an awesome place. Access to the great lakes so there is still shipping by water, and land transportation.
If you estimate the cost of your people running around to feed different parts of the process, how much would it be? That might inform the decision on whether you want custom build.
Honestly think building to suit would be the best option as long as you futureproof. Figure out what the next 5-10 years look like and build as big as you need to not have to expand later, but make sure you have enough extra land in case the need arises one day.
Inflation pushes risk that’s true, but risk then pushes safety, a 30 year mortgage can generate immense wealth, but only if you keep it for significant fractions of that time. If this woodworking business can no longer source wood or tooling, then it won’t matter if you have a “good “ debt to capital value , you will just have debt and a harder time paying it. I also push a little on the simplification of inflation here, becuase less than 10 episodes ago you announced downsizing because of inflation.
So our office moved to less Sqft at a point to save $ on rent. The move broke a very expensive printer. Somehow insurance only covered so much. Some saved rent money got sunk into a new printer, much more lost in the time everyone sat waiting for a new printer. Just thinking how costly it would be to move what you got. You can't move everyone to a new place. Especially since you relocated some of the more flexible workers to PA. The best option is to buy land with room to grow. Develop new product lines (expand prophecy or WW home stuff) with the machinery you can move there then as commitments for MGT are wound down. I don't reccomend buying the current factory. There are probably some less known hastles (other tenants) and limitations of the current location (...historical building... no room to expand to) WW is not wanting to get into the business of managing a property with assets you can't use.
I think I'm on the side of build to Wyrmwood specs on property that Wyrmwood would own. Yeah, the up front costs would be massive, but if you're paying something like 750K a year in rent and whatnot, over time it'd essentially pay for itself, and then that rent money becomes extra profit. Plus you'd have a nice new building instead of a janky old one. Basically, you'd get to have what you want, rather than make due with what you have. Of course, that depends on what you can swing, and where the dice fall. Frankly, I think of the Brittania location as the same thing as a starter home... but now you've got kids and you need to find something bigger that you can grow into.
There are better investments to make with the amount of money it would take to build a warehouse. The ROI on additional tools, promotion, personnel, etc are so much higher than a warehouse whose increasing value is abstract until actualized with a sale in a large number of years.
If you guys ARE looking at other states, come take a look at Idaho. It's a dry climate in a highly conservative state, which is always good for businesses.
I want to see Doug as a commercial landlord. If you build to suit then you better build your expansion space as modular refit so you can rent it out while you wait to expand. Episodes of Bobby arguing to let a weed grower rent the space and Doug renting it to poutine restaurants instead (plural, I know what I said). Also what the frak was that last sentence by Moses. Caviar storage!? house shaking wtf!!?
epic games bought an abandoned mall. you working in a Sears size place. you can have customer side with still running stores with lots of parking and docks
If you do plan on building your own facility, you should consider New Hampshire. Not super far away for anyone willing to move, and best of all no income or sales tax. There are a few Massachusetts based companies that have manufacturing or distribution facilities in NH. Only downside is that somehow, the "live free or die" state, the "liquor stores on the interstate" state hasn't legalized marijuana yet. So you will probably lose Bobby in the move...
With no mind for practical concerns Whatsoever...stay in the current place...it just looks really cool in the older sections with the tower and all the brick! Buy it: level the most outve shape part to create parking and build in some better docks.
I'm all for Wyrmwood buying up a huge parcel of land and building a massive custom facility on the condition that that loading dock door remains tiny. I am *NOT* about to give up seeing them ram giant pieces of machinery through an opening that was built for Smurfs.
yes the loading dock must be tiny
_One_ loading dock has to be tiny. It's the christening dock. Every new piece of machinery is shoved through the christening dock as a tradition. The rest is through other, normal docks for loading and unloading and other dock stuff
Call it the "challenge dock"
What if instead of the loading dock, they make Doug's Office Door extra tiny, so he has to crawl through it.
@@trishanks Omg yes! we need this
I love how Doug is asking "am I dumb?" and Frank is nodding enthusiastically behind him.
frank for president 2024
Frank was pure gold in this episode.
The big problem with moving to another site is potential loss of skilled employees due to shitty commutes. Employees generally aren't as mobile due to built up personal/financial ties to an area.
yeah i think it would have to be someplace really close to where theyre at unless theyre able to pay to move everyone and the new location is just SO good that most/all of the staff is happy to go there. the latter part is the least likely.
I agree
Loss of skilled employees and possibly poutine
@@wildgophers91 Doug would pay to have a poutine truck on the daily for sure.
That empty Sam's club sounds like a quality place to set up. Wide spacing. Concrete floors, giant parking lot, big shipping docks.
Plus lots of power already on site for all the coolers they had to run. An old Sam's would be an amazing place for a large woodworking shop.
I agree.
Not to mention…please please please reuse an old site if at all possible, from a sustainability/environmental perspective. Please.
@@cenewgent A build-to-suit can be made to modern (LEED, for example) standards that an old building can't hope to match. If embodied carbon is taken into account then yeah existing building is very heavily favoured but it starts to depend on the timescale. Heck, a competent architect would have the roof of a new build full of solar panels. Boom, WyrmPower and a passive revenue stream.
Another soft cost to consider is the inevitable amount of downtime that comes with moving your operation. It's going to take time and resources to move all your equipment, get it all setup, recalibrated, deal with all the issues that comes with. A day of zero production is a real cost, multiple days or weeks can be devastating.
they could keep the current shop and move over stuff peicemail
@@grimtides the logistics of that seem even more horrible
Great good gods! Moving the M+T machine after all the hassle. At least it would be more content!
@@drekfletch Yes, through a tiny custom built loading bay, judt so we dont have to miss the "Will it fit?" part.
If you do build *or* buy, look into overbuilding/buy with the ability to partition the space up and lease out the part you aren't using right then. Allows for later expansion, and might give you another revenue stream in the meantime.
Maybe they could convince Karen to set up a Dispel Dice branch in the hypothetical empty space. Actually on that thought, they could specifically build out multiple spaces for all the companies they've had collaborations with in the past. And the metal working guy next door!
Become Landlords for other makers
@@Reyn_Roadstorm unfortunately dispel dice requires the lower wages found overseas, I realise Karen is not running sweat shops and cares for her employees but they probably still earn considerably less than an American workforce even if they have good wages for their region
I see Frank and I know it will be a good episode
I think having a new facility would be better, so long as you have room to expand for more machinery, to produce new products and existing products faster.
pretty much the only site that sounded as good as a fresh slate would be something like a sams club. a huge open high roof'd building, easy to modify, easy to add on to. but would that be cheaper than starting from scratch? that's the fun part
They should think *modular* in their building design!
i mean if you are buying land to build a new facility, i am expecting a Wyrmland theme park as well to be honest xD
+1
i second this motion
I would totally go for a visit. Poutine stands, forklift rides, CNC design games, watermelon shooting range....the possibilities are endless
Another thing owning gives you is the property owner can't evict you if you own it. If the property owner dies and their kids decide they want to demolish and build or w.e you can lose everything.
A lot less likely to happen in commercial real estate. As they mentioned. You get huge profits because the tenant pays for all the improvements and repairs.
@@dogbert32 agreed. But less likely doesn't mean not possible. Especially in the situation where the owner passes and the kids don't want to deal with the hassle. Now I will give you that usually the leasee gets the chance to purchase the property, but not always say the owner has liens and such against the property. Low chances I know but chances none the less.
@@lisliaer7999 Funny thing is then the renters can litterly rip out everything they put in out of spite and put it back the way it was when they started renting it and suddenly the owners got a building thats back to the 90's in capabilities :P.
@@Ormathon iirc that exact scenario happened to the car wizard. Property owner short notice evicted them, and when they moved it it was just a bare steel building so they took everything out lol. And apparently the guy still can't offload the property. 😆
But the big point is even with that spite you still have to have a place to put all of the equipment and stock fast.
Ahhh yess, it's instantly a good day when a Wyrmwood video drops
God this is so interesting. I love seeing these little insights and behind the scenes actions that affect a business.
Frank is my favorite character.
I want him as my lawyer.
Have you looked at your current lease and figured out how much it would cost for you to leave the current property? Turnover conditions could be a huge cost if your current lease sucks.
Yeah, Doug complains a bit about the cost every time they get a new machine and have to run power/etc. Guess what, now the capacity has grown, moving to a new building means you need to pay riggers, movers, electrical, be prepared for days/weeks of downtime during the move, and the expensive machines might break in transit/setup so now you're calling in a tech to debug (if you can schedule them).
I certainly hope the equity on the facility is worth that to them if they continue this process
@@theJmanStriketh well not only that but what sort of shape does the lease say you have to leave the building? Do you have to rip out all of the infrastructure that was installed? Broom clean? Decommissioning a lease can be quite expensive and would be an expense on a P&L so it’s not an insignificant hit. But yeah, to your point how much down time in production to get moved and set back up? And at what cost?
By the time the new facility has been constructed to the point of being move-in ready for machinery, the lease most likely won't be an issue.
@@theJmanStriketh The thing is though, unless they're planning on renting for forever, the longer they keep waiting with it, the larger these things will stack up to make the calculation more and more unfavorable. They're already saying that they're running into a lot of problems with their current facilities, those problems aren't going to magically go away by themselves in the coming 30 years, and if you're moving facilities, then moving from a rented space into something they've purpose-built themselves isn't gonna cost more to move than moving from one rented space to another rented space, not when it comes to the costs of the move itself.
@@neruneri Totally agree! The conversation is phrased in the video as "we're spending $X on rent and have $Y in the bank, let's get some of that equity!" Since they're NNN they're already nearly in an owner-like situation financially, but reducing the costs to "we built/bought/rented a new building *claps dust from hands*" isn't the whole picture when they've put to camera some of the throughput issues they've had in the shop. Maybe they put up with some sub-optimal shop conditions for 3-4 years to get production/finance to where it's reasonable to move. But building/buying might take that long anyway.
And I have a high level of confidence they're actively including these costs in their inner room conversations, it's just on the editing floor. Reducing the story to a 10 minute for-the-fans format means we lose some depth in the presentation. I'm totally prepared though for Doug (who is smart enough to plan long-term for the company, and understands, and will pay necessary short term costs for long-term benefit) to complain about how closing out the lease and moving all the machinery is expensive and causing production issues. Free drama for the camera, and not untrue to his real feelings.
As someone who got his Bachelors in Economics , I have to interject. Doug , I love you man, but many of you opinion on inflation are misinformed.
1.THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT HIGH INFLATION. The government is actively trying to slow in inflation. The Federal Reserve (The big government bank that controls the money) is actively try to combat high inflation. High inflation let unchecked leads to a decrease in purchasing power for the average American. Federal politicians usually get voted out if inflation remains high. There is a direct political incentive to keep inflation in check. Around 2% inflation is the historic target.
2. The 8.4% CPI number is Headline CPI. Headline CPI has a history of being deceiving because it includes Oil and Food in it calculous. Oil and Food are notoriously more volatile than the rest of the economy. Both of those commodities have risen dramatically from the War in Ukraine. Unless another major disturbance happens, the prices will become more reasonable overtime. Core CPI excludes oil and food. It was around 6.5%. Still High but, nowhere near the 10% Jason was suggesting
3. Your synopsis of how markets react to high inflation is mostly correct but, incomplete. Both Extremely High and extremely low inflation is bad. Extremely Low rates of inflation incentives people to invest more money into riskier assets for higher returns. This primes the economy for market bubbles. Once the bubble pops it will lead to recession .
Super appreciate these insights/clarifications. Came to the comments for this.
Hey bud, idk if you know but the fed reserve isn’t a government body. They don’t have americas interest at hand, just money
@@CazialsChannel federal reserve...FEDERAL as in federal government. The fed was established in 1913 by woodrowe wilson help stop bank failures in the US. It is most definitely a government agency.
@@kevinmills1711 Yeah it's an independent government agency and is held accountable to the public and Congress. The regional banks are different... and one of Doug's favorite listening people has some strong and not at all correct opinions on the matter; not that facts matter to a man who makes money repeating conspiracy nonsense
Agreed. Similarly, this may be the worst time to be contemplating taking on debt since the Fed's response to inflation is going to be hiking interest rates across 2022 and 2023 until inflation stops rising (or a recession starts). Unless you can somehow work out this deal in the next weeks, you're just going to be locking yourself into a higher interest rate to avoid inflation that the higher interest rates are meant to defeat.
Doug is pitching to load up on debt to purchase a depreciating asset at the top of a real estate bubble when rates are skyrocketing. Might want to get a second opinion.
Does he intent to race the pop of the real estate bubble? I am pretty sure that USA want to hold a low inflation %, like around 2-3% I think? Whatever politicians will come up with to combat the rising inflation could fuck with the plans, right?
@@guidohywuler9916 Target central bank inflation is 2-3%, yep. Whether that's achievable after the quantitative easing since 2008... well I'm a commenter on a YT video, don't ask me. :)
To be fair an $18M construction costs isn’t bad when it’s all in after the cash contribution. Any bank will lend you up to 80% of the cost to build and then let you add the last 20% in cash. SBA backed loans are a great idea to cover that, but they’ll also want to look at guarantees from the owner.
Any bank will allow you to add the current rent back to the performance (EBITDA) of the company as means to cover the debt service of the mortgage. But you’ve also got to be consider any other financing needs such as equipment loans/ lines of credit.
The goal should be for Wyrmwood to aim for a 1.25:1 debt coverage ratio - or 1.25 of EBITDA to every dollar of income. But this is only when you’re property is built and stable (complete) since it will mostly interest only during the time it’s being built.
I think moving to a new facility will be a logistical nightmare in the short term; however, it can be a great opportunity to have the building you want that you own in the long term.
I would say now is not the time to look into buying property or building one as all the prices are jacked up. I'd sit on this idea for a year or two and see where things shake out.
As always, Dale saving the day!
Excellent episode!! Thank you yet again for including the community in these behind the scene''s decision making and brainstorming! I can't get enough of these videos!
Fun times. These are the decisions that have decades of impact. Love being a part of these discussions.
I love how doug asks if he's dumb for wanting to invest in a building rather than in anything else and frank is in the back there like "well..."
I love just seeing Frank's reactions to all of it in the background.
I like how Doug only talked about debt and cash and left out investing that money somewhere else. Land can be an investment, but right now prices are inflated so it may not be the best investment. Also, you can invest money without going in debt... which is what Frank was trying to point out. Also the one question no one asked was how much it would cost to move all your current equipment or get all new equipment. That would be a huge one-time cost that may make it not worth moving.
Opportunity cost is the name of the game here.
I don't think the cost of moving is as important as you make it out to be. The thing is, they're going to have to pay that cost no matter what they do, because as they say in this video, their current facilities aren't going to be sustainable for growth in the long-term. They're going to have to move eventually. Whether they move now or in ten years doesn't change this. Neither does whether or not they move from one rental to another rental or get their own land. Either way, the video makes it very clear that they will have to move at some point, thus, they're going to have to pay this cost no matter what.
@@neruneri You move when you need to or when a great opportunity comes through, not when Doug gets an itch. Nothing they said indicates that there is a pressing need. Especially with prices being so high and the supply chain restricted, now is one of the worst times to contemplate this. The opportunity cost is all of the other things that they could do with the money to positively impact the bottom line.
Plus, moving will be more expensive than you are anticipating. Hundreds of thousands of dollars just in rigging and transporting all of their machinery, more in getting technicians and trades out to hook them back up. All while not producing any product. It could go south so fast and so badly.
@@involunteer Yes, and in this video they are explicit about the fact that they *need* to move, because their current location is a bottleneck hindering them. Your line of reasoning presumes that not-moving is an option, but the video itself states that not-moving is not actually an option. The thing they're discussing is whether to go to a new rented space or to build their own. Moving is, in itself, necessary. Thus, paying for that move is, in itself, necessary. If you know you have to move, waiting with moving has its own costs. Moving is going to be immensely more expensive in both real costs and opportunity costs in five years than it is now, because there will be more stuff to move. The faster they move, the cheaper it is.
Because let's be clear about something, not-moving is not an option in the long-term. They have to eat those costs. Choosing to delay moving has its own opportunity costs too, because as they state in this current video, they are having problems scaling up their production because they can't set up more machines in an efficient workflow. This also costs them money. Not-moving is actively costing them money too.
IF the building you're in is having you shoe-horn everything, it would be beneficially to see
1) how expensive it would be to add features you want/remove problems and if it's even possible from a regulatory standpoint (eg. add loading docks, parking, etc.). Since you've already put so much into the property already.
2) how expensive would it be to purchase and renovate an existing building (especially considering you'll need to redo nearly all the renovations you've done to the current building).
and finally 3) compare it to an estimated cost to design, acquire land, and permits for a new building from scratch.
I _suspect_ option 2) is the cheapest option, but I really don't know for sure.
Frank! You know it’s a great episode when Frank is in the house.
Started looking through the videos as I am scheduled to get my new table early next year.
As someone who has been analyzing commercial real estate for the past quarter century you are barely scratching the surface of costs to build from the ground up… it will be interesting to see where you landed.
Build to suit a 150k sqft new building in Myles Standish. Get a 50-80 stall parking lot, 8-12 bay loading dock, exterior dust collection, better office and conference spaces, plus one huge door for new equipment to be delivered through.
I love videos like this!! So fascinating to watch and see the business stuff like this being discussed!
So when you leave the building, do you remove the hardware you put in such as the electricity? Or do you get any compensation from the owners leaving it in? I mean, you made huge improvements where they can use that as selling points to another renter or as justification for raising rent rates.
Usually you take everything unless you are getting evicted with asset forfeiture. They might even charge you for leaving behind all the custom electrical. Custom electrical, shelving all that stuff, its all custom and set for their very specific business, they cannot sell it to someone else as they likely have no use for it, they would need to scrap most of it or reorganize it, and that costs money, so its cheaper for them to tell you to take your stuff out before you leave.
Yeah Murasaur's 100% right here. LLs want to lease building *space* and clients want it empty so they can fit it up to their needs. As Doug touched on, the lease is for everything in the building shell; the LL just provides the building.
Build your own place. You can customize it they way you want without having to settle on the few choices that only meet part of your needs. In addition, if you build it large enough, you can lease out part of your building to other companies and make money that way. Also, look for places outside of the state (come to Delaware). If you can find a place where the taxes are cheaper and has better access for transportation, that may work out for you.
honestly if the sams club has the square footage it should be perfect the bays would be massive, and they would need to do electrical either way
Dale has so many connections lmao.
My mans Linkedin must be stacked lol
Ok, ok, hear me out....Northwest Arkansas. Good quality of life in the Fayetteville/Bentonville/Springdale metro area and lots of infrastructure already in place while still having lower CoL.
"Should we stay, or should we go?" ; Go, or stay, do what helps you guys make more money, make more product, make more types of products. But, if you do build a place; think about adding in a learning workshop to help kids (highschool?) to learn the wood working trades as well as the g-code trades. You guys would have an amazing impact, and I believe the inflation dynamic you are discussing is going to lead to a lot more US based companies and in the US, we do love our wood. Wyrmwood 4 Life!
Doug. I (for another week but ill still recommend them) work for a heavy commercial/industrial architecture firm out of Baltimore who specializes in structures of the scale Wyrmwood needs. If you want to actually discuss the process and costs of building from scratch, id be happy to put you in touch with my boss
guys... the cpi is year to year, not in a single month... please tell me someone corrected you...
Come on down to the eastern shore of Maryland. Apparently shipping rates are so much more cheaper here, the store I work at had to fulfill online orders from Philly and surrounding areas at Christmas time because the company realized how much cheaper it was to ship. My fulfillment hours tripled this past holiday season.
Man, I can't wait for the building arc
As a mechanical engineer/project manager that builds high stack shell warehouses on the west coast definitely consider oversizing the property versus what you think you currently need (rent out the extra space). Current design to construction completion period is approximately 20+ months typically. Unfortunately, current construction is drastically different than pre-corona. Costs of materials is slowly coming back down but are really high, and lead times on material (especially steel/roof construction framing and major equipment) is extremely long (14 months roof framing/steel, 9 months major mech/elec equipment). The plus side is that the time spent in design phase hasn't really changed much (approximately 4-6 months) so hopfully construction rebounds in the time it takes you to figure out what you want.
There's one thing you have to worry about with inflation and debt. Interest. Unless you have a contract stating you have a fixing, unchanging interest rate, your debters are going to mark you up for the difference by jacking up your interest so they can still make money off you.
If you do decide to build your own place, central PA (Harrisburg, Scranton, Allentown) is very good. Convient access to major roads (80, 95), cheap land, and about an hour away from major cities.
As Doug said, this is complex.
1) Assuming you're going to build to suit, how long will that take?
2) How will commutes change?
3) How will delivery routes and shipping routes change?
4) How much is power and water at the new site? If the building is cheaper but power is expensive, you might be taking a big hit because of all the power you use.
5) Insurance was mentioned. How will that change? Better building materials might mean savings in operating costs.
6) Is there any grant money available for building a commercial site? Since you buy local and hire local where possible, there might be a tax incentive to build.
7) Do you even like your landlord? Tenants will often move to a new site just to get out from under a crappy landlord.
8) What about owning your OEN commercial space to rent? I know there are lots of small shops in your complex...would any of THEM be willing to come with you? You build more space than you need and rent the extra out to other businesses.
Another way to look at the cost / benefit analysis of a new property / expansions the is the marginal cost: how much would it cost you to build the next 10k sq. ft. at each site?
Because you not only want to replace what you currently have, but want room to grow. So if current property is $500k/yr and you can get more at $5/sq. ft. at what size of a brand new facility is it worth it. If a new building comes to an equivalent $800k/yr, but you get equity, and the process flow is better, and better access to the site, those little thing add up in the intangible safety/quality of life bucket.
Major assumption is that the capabilities of each locations are the same (ceiling height, electrical hookups, ease of access for trucking, layout restrictions, building health, etc.), because you be interested in paying $1/sqft if the ceiling doesn't leak, its more energy efficient so your utility bill is less, and there's no asbestos so you can configure and renovate to your hearts desire. Also don't forget the workforce - are they happier with the new location (cooler places to live, closer to home, better lunch spots other than poutine, etc.)
Why not just invest into more machinery? Jason said it himself, the cnc is an asset that generates profit. Buying more tools and machinery would generate profit now as opposed to a building that generates equity slowly over time. Especially now with MGT 2.0 and Sit Stand Desk coming up.
I think they have just run out of space. They need more floor space in order to buy more machines and push through more lumber.
They've run out of floor space, and run out of ways to efficiently set up workflow to take advantage of new machines. Buying more machines as an asset to generate value is inherently worth less to them in their current situation than it would be if they moved because of this. They're basically running into bottlenecks, which means they're going to have to move facilities at some point.
Come to Syracuse, NY we have plenty of old factories and warehouses for sale. Hell I'm sure you can buy a mall or two at this point.
Have you looked in NC? A big furniture company just shut down. Factory and workers up for grab.
I'm not gonna lie I'm selfish. I want you guys to build your own facility. Imagine the amount of wyrmlife content.
I've heard this be explained so many different times and never understood it until Doug did his thing. I now understand the logic behind wanting debt over cash
@Wyrmwood i would consider how long you plan to have this business. Long term?= build and own. When its paid off all is net $$
If you plan on short term/ “make the money to retire and sell the brand” Then stay with renting. And someone will buy the brand with a better location ready to go
At least thats my quick thoughts. Cant wait to see more!!
That looks like the beggining of an incredibly interesting series / season of Wyrmlyfe
I think you don't worry about moving or building unless the current space can no longer accommodate growth. When the time comes for you to rent or buy an additional property to expand, then you consider building something new that can replace existing and cover expansion. If you wait until then it isn't just "does the new mortgage cost as much as our current rent", it's "does the new mortgage cost as much as our current rent plus a new building's rent".
What about the cost of moving the equipment, is that fairly small compared to the other items?
Compared to the $18 million, it's pretty small, but I'd suspect it'll be a few hundred thousand. It's a lot of money, but likely not enough to push the needle in either direction on a decision like this.
Build in southern NH. I would say Maine but I don't know if you could find enough staff.
Brilliant video! Thanks guys
Build to suit, build sit stand desks, profit
Also help employees with potentially moving if they want to scoot locations
Can't you ask the current property owner what it would take or cost, for you to be allowed to add to or rebuild your current building?
That honestly sounds like the worst solution. It might be cheaper than building something from scratch, but that's only in the immediate short term. At the end of the day, they would be paying millions for something they won't own.
Dudes I love these and I love mosses. I want to become a business owner. Mosses is a mad man but a genius.
Just my 2 cents, don't do a 5% cap rate (20 year return on investment). I am more conservative and do 10 years, but I can see stretching to 13 or 15 years (about 7% cap rate)
I'm guessing ct, there's so many warehouses and factory out here.
I think you should take your modular concepts to heart and build your own facility. But have the architect design it with modularity in mind, such that it can be easily expanded if/when the company grows.
What about nh to buy or build in ? It’s cheap here
I would recommend looking at pennsylvania for a new location, I don't know the laws on manufacturing facilities. I just think it's good to try keep a large scale business localized to cut down on communication delay and the cost of shipping between locations. But what do I know I could be total wrong
Not sure how it works in the states but where I'm from leasing is normally better because your lease is wholly deducted from revenue where in a purchase you're deductions are less.
Where is Wyrmwood looking to build?
Checkout Indianapolis area. We have the warehouses. For days.
Diversify! Wyrmwood could do both. You guys could put a down payment on a new building and buy into the stock market. Should something happen to the primary business you can sell off stocks to keep it afloat or purchase new equipment if needed. The stocks could also be used as a break glass incase of emergency account. They can also be used to pay taxes at the end of the year. Various options. But a building is limited in what it can do for you.
I have to say this, not that it really matters, but because it's really bothering me. Your real estate broker said an acre was 43,750 square feet but it's actually 43,560 square feet. I'm a forester and we use that value in a lot of calculations so that's where I'm coming from.
All of the business talk in this episode went entirely over my head lol. All I took from this was that Moses is exactly the kind of guy Wyrmwood should be working with; he matches the energy of the company well lolll. Whatever you guys decide I hope it works out!
Yeah, inflation's crazy. I bought a place in 2020. Now, my house is worth 30% more than the sticker price. My net worth dollar amount increased more from owning/maintaining my house than it did from working 40hr/week.
Call me crazy, but - maybe a nice phat WORKER bonus???
Company is doing well, everyone gets a cut.
The cost of moving every one of their machines to a new location would be insane and cease production for a long while.
Me throughout so much of their conversation: "Well that's not how that works"
New segment. Wyrmwood presents-Dougconomics.
Northampton is right on I91 and close to the Pike. Plenty of warehouses around here. Just sayin'.
Wyrmwood, the promised land. Seems legit...
You could move to Indiana. Centrally located county wide.
While I do feel it could be an attempt to lead customers in a "guilt trip" or "understanding of life" direction, I greatly appreciate the fact that they post parts of the daily company life.
If you're interested in moving to a different state, I'd look in West Michigan. Was pretty diversified and had a lot of furniture business before the whole car crash of detroit so west michigan didn't get hit as hard, beautiful area of the state, some amazing cities; grand rapids is awesome, really blowing up lot of huge medical research and hospitals and college, tun of microbreweries, restaurants, art festivals, comedy festivals, etc. Only problem is that like everywhere cost of living is going up since its such an awesome place.
Access to the great lakes so there is still shipping by water, and land transportation.
If you estimate the cost of your people running around to feed different parts of the process, how much would it be? That might inform the decision on whether you want custom build.
Honestly think building to suit would be the best option as long as you futureproof. Figure out what the next 5-10 years look like and build as big as you need to not have to expand later, but make sure you have enough extra land in case the need arises one day.
I think the most interesting thing now would be to know how long it would take all machines from one facility to another and how much that would cost.
Inflation pushes risk that’s true, but risk then pushes safety, a 30 year mortgage can generate immense wealth, but only if you keep it for significant fractions of that time. If this woodworking business can no longer source wood or tooling, then it won’t matter if you have a “good “ debt to capital value , you will just have debt and a harder time paying it. I also push a little on the simplification of inflation here, becuase less than 10 episodes ago you announced downsizing because of inflation.
I want to see Wyrmwood build a new location from scratch, because I think it'd be great content.
So our office moved to less Sqft at a point to save $ on rent. The move broke a very expensive printer. Somehow insurance only covered so much. Some saved rent money got sunk into a new printer, much more lost in the time everyone sat waiting for a new printer. Just thinking how costly it would be to move what you got. You can't move everyone to a new place. Especially since you relocated some of the more flexible workers to PA. The best option is to buy land with room to grow. Develop new product lines (expand prophecy or WW home stuff) with the machinery you can move there then as commitments for MGT are wound down. I don't reccomend buying the current factory. There are probably some less known hastles (other tenants) and limitations of the current location (...historical building... no room to expand to) WW is not wanting to get into the business of managing a property with assets you can't use.
Put a million into Bitcoin. Put another million into UST and stake it for 19.5% APY using Anchor. And get mortgage to buy land and build new site.
If you build you can improve work environment according to your challenges. Think of the workers. Acoustics etc
I think I'm on the side of build to Wyrmwood specs on property that Wyrmwood would own.
Yeah, the up front costs would be massive, but if you're paying something like 750K a year in rent and whatnot, over time it'd essentially pay for itself, and then that rent money becomes extra profit. Plus you'd have a nice new building instead of a janky old one.
Basically, you'd get to have what you want, rather than make due with what you have. Of course, that depends on what you can swing, and where the dice fall. Frankly, I think of the Brittania location as the same thing as a starter home... but now you've got kids and you need to find something bigger that you can grow into.
There are better investments to make with the amount of money it would take to build a warehouse. The ROI on additional tools, promotion, personnel, etc are so much higher than a warehouse whose increasing value is abstract until actualized with a sale in a large number of years.
Come build your new shop in Omaha Nebraska. Cheap, great central location for distribution, tons of room to grow.
If you guys ARE looking at other states, come take a look at Idaho. It's a dry climate in a highly conservative state, which is always good for businesses.
Build in Texas, I'll come work for you guys in a heartbeat.
I don't know why this stuff is so entertaining. This is like super boring adult stuff but it fascinates me.
I want to see Doug as a commercial landlord. If you build to suit then you better build your expansion space as modular refit so you can rent it out while you wait to expand. Episodes of Bobby arguing to let a weed grower rent the space and Doug renting it to poutine restaurants instead (plural, I know what I said). Also what the frak was that last sentence by Moses. Caviar storage!? house shaking wtf!!?
epic games bought an abandoned mall. you working in a Sears size place. you can have customer side with still running stores with lots of parking and docks
If you do plan on building your own facility, you should consider New Hampshire. Not super far away for anyone willing to move, and best of all no income or sales tax. There are a few Massachusetts based companies that have manufacturing or distribution facilities in NH.
Only downside is that somehow, the "live free or die" state, the "liquor stores on the interstate" state hasn't legalized marijuana yet. So you will probably lose Bobby in the move...
Come on down to NC boys. Life is good 😉
Seriously, no one is going to comment on the unique character that is now Wyrmwood's real estate broker?
Sup, Mike.
Waldman is the man.
With no mind for practical concerns Whatsoever...stay in the current place...it just looks really cool in the older sections with the tower and all the brick!
Buy it: level the most outve shape part to create parking and build in some better docks.