12 to 15 hundred dollars. Kind of agree, got a Spa Cycles Eland steel light tourer with Reynolds steel and full shimano 105 disc cable and shimano wheels for £1300. It's about the price where the bang for buck is.
HED Ardennes LT+ alloy wheels $800 for set, disc, 1560 grams. Wheels, rotors and cassette I got done for about $1k. And pricing out the HED Emporia GA performance alu 25mm int 30mm ext tubeless compatible 650B or 700c $700 set
It's a shame most steel bikes are now either really cheap or really expensive. Back in the 90s we had a huge selection of affordable steel hardtails, road bikes and even those weird road bikes with wider tires, what ever happened to those anyways?
Agreed! I had a 1990 Bianchi "Cross Terrain" bike, $1100 retail complete, with clearance for 45mm (or more) tires. I know that we are talking 1990 dollars, but even the most expensive version with Columbus Max tubing and top-end XC Pro components was $2000. If I had a time machine, I'd go back, buy two, and be switching to the second one right about now.
I am riding a steel Marin 4Corners in Penang, Malaysia. And I am a weird cyclist that still riding a steel bike. Everybody is riding carbon fiber super road bikes and they are scorning me for riding such low performance stuff.
The steel alone to build a steel frame and fork costs the builder $750. Paint is another few hundred, and then you need to pay them a week's pay essentially.
Re: backpack and comfort, try including a ThermaRest inflatable seat cushion. They take up space, but are very light, pretty durable, insulate contents from body heat, and protect your spine and laptop (not the bottom edge, of course).
Are Chris King headsets nice? Yes, but Cane Creek, FSA, Ritchey and so on are nice too. Take a bike with original parts from for example 1987. There is rarely something wrong with the headset. The headset has usually no issues. So the headset for USD 30'- lasts also for 30,40 years. And the chain for 60,- lasts not 60 times longer than the one for 10,-.
This discussion kind of proves the Issue with the cycle inðustry. Get you're talking high end value for money. But frame, fork and wheels, you're already $3k deep.
The last time I messed with gears and brakes was 90s MTB, at that point anything more than Shimano LX seemed a luxury. That's probably a reflection of how good Shimano's engineering and build quality was, not sure if that's changed.
The secret is finding a company large enough to care about quality and refinement that can order/produce enough product to bring cost downs. But not so large they prioritize profit. Lots of the companies you mentioned fit that definition.
Dia-Compe USA is Cane Creek, they came up with Aheadset Regarding the Vario, I’ve used two generations for commuting. I prefer the latest. The new Vario free stands with the internal plate.
In terms of my personal approach to expenditure, I wouldn't spend more than 2 months income on a bike. That's really because that's absolutely the limit of what I can spend on anything in a year before I can't look after my daily needs.I don't have a car , but if I were to get one my budget would be the same! So that's it I ain't got more than that no matter what the bike has to offer. However I am not going to buy a new bike because I already have one which does what I need, so the question is moot really. I don't intend to buy another one until what I have is not fit for purpose, so most likely if I take up another type of riding that my current bike is not suitable for.
Buy what you want. Spend what you want. But understand that you get diminishing returns as you spend more. A $4000 bike isn't twice as good as a $2000 bike.
I like Teravail, but they do not make a 29 x 2.2 smooth tire, so I went with the Rene Herse Antilope Hill 700 x 55 for my go to bike when primarily riding on pavement and normal gravel. I wish Teravail made a 29 x 2.2 smooth tire.
@@1mp0r7g4m3r I use Sparwood for mostly offroad, but it is NOT a smooth tire. Thus, when I am mostly on pavement, I switch to a smooth tire such at the Rene Herse Antelope Hill
I think there are multiple price points for most parts, because of the materials they can be made from. For example with wheels, you might not get any more for you money spending over 500 on aluminium, but you would get better value spending 1500 on a set that are carbon.
Carbon wheels definitely have a place and certainly in racing but also the aero advantage is nice for those of us stuck out on the prairie who cover fairly large distances with no shelter from the wind. I still roll aluminum, but it certainly makes my wife faster (not that she needs it). She has a pair of Hunt wheels and they are pretty decent, but I am much more interested in the carbon wheels coming out of Utah that Chris King uses ( Forge and Bond, and some Trek) being thermoplastic they don't suffer the major drawback of more traditional carbon, i.e. the fragility. And they tout less waste as well. I would be keen to try those.
You pay your money and you take your choice. The $8,500 MSRP difference between something like a $4,500 Aethos 105 Di2 and a $13,000 Aethos S-Works Dura-Ace Di 2 would be a hard sale for me even if I was considering a new bike.
listening from episode 1 and this video with @bikesauce makes me appreciate my first mtb more😂 and also learn the importance of patient when expending with parts and accessories, but still definitely going to spent money for my bikes 😂😂.. but atleast in a smart ways .. ride safe for both of you and happy easter
I have been a cyclist for nearly 40 years and will never be satisfied on a $1200 bike although my first bike was much less adjusted for inflation in 2024. After nearly being killed in a bike lane a decade ago I moved to gravel / mixed trail. It took 1 mountain bike and 2 ‘gravel’ bikes to get to my $3,600 Rivendell. The Rivendell blows away the prior 3 bikes including a BMC gravel bike and will easily do so with equivalents up to $7k. The real upside is that I can easily work on every component down to the frame in my garage on my bike rack. I get it if the $3600 sounds high but don’t even try to compare it to a Stump Jumper Rock Hopping Specialized or Surly as I have owned both. These would be great entry to immediate level bikes but they don’t handle or ride nearly as well as the Riv. Spending north of $4K IMHO gets into diminishing returns pretty fast. But up to that spend is fine based upon your skill level and disposable income. Cycling is one of my top escapes averaging about 180 miles in the woods per week. Spend for your skill level and use and don’t try to box yourself into a number based on others views of what is right for you. My Riv is a Wolbis Slugstone. Hope this helps!
I needed a shorter stem so I removed the Bontrager stem and replaced it with a Thompson X4 elite on sale for $50 brand new. I don’t feel like I got too spendy for a part that’s not that important.
I genuinely don’t see any value in a headset more expensive than a Hope. They are bombproof and come in all the funky colours of they really bothers you.
I can understand $1000-$1500 for a really high quality steel frame (that you can repair over and over), but paying equally that much for plastic wheels that can break if you go off a curb too hard is absolutely absurd.
I would buy a nice headset and cheap bb. Shimano square taper or hollow tech bb’s are cheap, less than $30, and work well for a long time on bikes that aren’t taken care of. I think Chris king has bold marketing claims but they back it up smooth rolling stuff that doesn’t wear out. I’ve had a few old, well used Chris king headsets and hubs and they just work forever with minimal maintenance, are serviced rather easily and feel like they have excellent tolerances and quality in every way (except freehub bodies are soft alloy and gouge up a lot). Also, threaded bb’s are easy to replace with cheap tools. Headset cups and races need more expensive tools I don’t have so I don’t want to ever have to remove them. But yeah cane creek, fsa, probably wolf tooth (never used one) all offer the same performance headsets. Headsets can last forever so buy a nice one once. Bbs will wear out no matter how fancy so economize with them.
listening to the chris king headset bit. do headsets actualy break? ive never had any cheap headset break. some of mine ar 14 years old now and cost peanuts. why buy something that expensive when its not needed?
A lot of variables come into play when it comes to the return on investment in mountain bikes. Many of the more entry level less expensive but still quality hardtails may be perfectly fine for someone riding trails in the Midwest but unreasonably rough and less than durable for someone riding the terrain in the Southwest. The point of diminishing returns still exists of course but it’s more variable imho.
WAY longer. I've had mine for 2 years and it's as smooth as a fidget spinner. A normal BB would be getting pretty rough by now. It actually took about 6 months to "break in" and spin so well.
Yeah DIY, because buying tube sets, a milling machine, tooling, building jigs, a nice TIG set-up, some kind of paint booth, spray guns and primer, base coats, color and clear and then of course you should probably learn how use and be proficient in the use of said equipment… say, how much are those Ti Colnogo’s with the bald eagle leather handlebar tape and the Blue whale foreskin seat covers because that’s starting to look like a real bargain compared to one of those DIY jobs!
I couldn’t pay more than 1000 for a working bike. You can upgrade as you go later on but as long as its moving and can get you everywhere you want to go then there little difference between a 3k bike and 1k bike when riding it imho
These guys are at about 3x the budget Im OK with. Too many good used steel frames out there for almost no money. Of course, I have time to spend on them.😊
Rivendell or qny Blue Lug bicycle that coststhousands of dollars when you could just pick up an old Specialized rock hopper and build it up. If that is the cost of alternative cycling then I will just buy a second hand top of the line gravel bike for waaay cheaper and use that bikepacking.
Yup, or search out a GT mountain bike from the 90's for an indestructible, great ride as is, or, build it up with modern components. On the road side, get a vintage steel road bike, (in my case a Kawamura Nishiki) update with modern components and enjoy a silky ride that can still be quite light by today's standards. Cheaper and fun.
@@ForeverDownByLaw Couldnt agree more. I love PLP but I have to say that the industry that they are rallying against (Specialized, carbon bikes, Electronic shifting) I'm all for that but dollar for dollar the stuff "party pace" dude espouses also sits on the high dollar spectrum only they sit on the other side of the fence. A Rivendell and a Breadwinner. Seriously!!!??? A Sklar. High end just the same minus the performance.
@@libraryofpapelBuying nice stuff and supporting makes if you have enough money is fine. I'm also doing it. But why then not say that? Instead the podcasters here seem to want to rationalize their love for premium products, which makes them seem out of touch and hypocritical. For most people bikes costing less than 1.5k are totally fine. And suggesting otherwise will be harmful for bringing cycling to the masses.
Hey, I have a complicated situation, and seek some personal knowledge/ experience. I am in need of getting across the country, and do not have a combustion engine, nor the will to sit on a bus. I currently do not have a bike. I have done a 6 day tour before, but didn't learn much as that bike was a loaner and I didn't have to use much brain power regarding the setup/ equipment/ brand of bike. This will be my first multi month tour, I am seeking advice on getting a bike, I know I fit a 58 bike, but thats practically all I know. I am on the side of Ultraromance where the older bikes worked, but don't know how obsolete the components from the past are, many people have shared I'd have a hard time finding parts if they broke. I can buy a new bike, I have a $1400 budget, but would rather I think, stick to what worked in the past. I am headed across canada. Any recommendations regarding it all? brand? year? size of tires? recommended touring tires? frames? I am sorry for such a general question but I have to start somewhere. . . Thank you so much. May peace find you.
I pack my backpacks exactly the same as Nolan - why would you just shove everything in? Flat stuff against your back, heavy stuff as low and near you back as you can get it.
Electrolytes mix and gels are a huge waste of money! Make your own drink mix with Koolaide and a dash of salt and buy some gummie bears or jelly beans in bulk and put ‘em in a zip lock
12 to 15 hundred dollars. Kind of agree, got a Spa Cycles Eland steel light tourer with Reynolds steel and full shimano 105 disc cable and shimano wheels for £1300. It's about the price where the bang for buck is.
On bike bags, military surplus pouches and ALICE buttpacks work great as handle bar bags and clipped to Wald baskets. and they're cheap as chips
Very true, great resource for the bikepacker
HED Ardennes LT+ alloy wheels $800 for set, disc, 1560 grams. Wheels, rotors and cassette I got done for about $1k. And pricing out the HED Emporia GA performance alu
25mm int 30mm ext tubeless compatible 650B or 700c $700 set
It's a shame most steel bikes are now either really cheap or really expensive. Back in the 90s we had a huge selection of affordable steel hardtails, road bikes and even those weird road bikes with wider tires, what ever happened to those anyways?
Agreed! I had a 1990 Bianchi "Cross Terrain" bike, $1100 retail complete, with clearance for 45mm (or more) tires. I know that we are talking 1990 dollars, but even the most expensive version with Columbus Max tubing and top-end XC Pro components was $2000. If I had a time machine, I'd go back, buy two, and be switching to the second one right about now.
@@ericpmoss It's wages that haven't kept up, sadly.
I am riding a steel Marin 4Corners in Penang, Malaysia. And I am a weird cyclist that still riding a steel bike. Everybody is riding carbon fiber super road bikes and they are scorning me for riding such low performance stuff.
The steel alone to build a steel frame and fork costs the builder $750. Paint is another few hundred, and then you need to pay them a week's pay essentially.
Re: backpack and comfort, try including a ThermaRest inflatable seat cushion. They take up space, but are very light, pretty durable, insulate contents from body heat, and protect your spine and laptop (not the bottom edge, of course).
Are Chris King headsets nice? Yes, but Cane Creek, FSA, Ritchey and so on are nice too. Take a bike with original parts from for example 1987. There is rarely something wrong with the headset. The headset has usually no issues. So the headset for USD 30'- lasts also for 30,40 years. And the chain for 60,- lasts not 60 times longer than the one for 10,-.
This discussion kind of proves the Issue with the cycle inðustry. Get you're talking high end value for money. But frame, fork and wheels, you're already $3k deep.
The last time I messed with gears and brakes was 90s MTB, at that point anything more than Shimano LX seemed a luxury. That's probably a reflection of how good Shimano's engineering and build quality was, not sure if that's changed.
The secret is finding a company large enough to care about quality and refinement that can order/produce enough product to bring cost downs. But not so large they prioritize profit. Lots of the companies you mentioned fit that definition.
Good discussion y’all. Thanks!
Dia-Compe USA is Cane Creek, they came up with Aheadset
Regarding the Vario, I’ve used two generations for commuting. I prefer the latest. The new Vario free stands with the internal plate.
In terms of my personal approach to expenditure, I wouldn't spend more than 2 months income on a bike. That's really because that's absolutely the limit of what I can spend on anything in a year before I can't look after my daily needs.I don't have a car , but if I were to get one my budget would be the same! So that's it I ain't got more than that no matter what the bike has to offer.
However I am not going to buy a new bike because I already have one which does what I need, so the question is moot really. I don't intend to buy another one until what I have is not fit for purpose, so most likely if I take up another type of riding that my current bike is not suitable for.
Buy what you want. Spend what you want. But understand that you get diminishing returns as you spend more. A $4000 bike isn't twice as good as a $2000 bike.
…but it’s at least it’s 4000 times better than a one dollar!
I like Teravail, but they do not make a 29 x 2.2 smooth tire, so I went with the Rene Herse Antilope Hill 700 x 55 for my go to bike when primarily riding on pavement and normal gravel. I wish Teravail made a 29 x 2.2 smooth tire.
The Sparwood is basically a smooth tire. It's what I run for pavement commuting
@@1mp0r7g4m3r I use Sparwood for mostly offroad, but it is NOT a smooth tire. Thus, when I am mostly on pavement, I switch to a smooth tire such at the Rene Herse Antelope Hill
I think there are multiple price points for most parts, because of the materials they can be made from. For example with wheels, you might not get any more for you money spending over 500 on aluminium, but you would get better value spending 1500 on a set that are carbon.
Carbon wheels definitely have a place and certainly in racing but also the aero advantage is nice for those of us stuck out on the prairie who cover fairly large distances with no shelter from the wind. I still roll aluminum, but it certainly makes my wife faster (not that she needs it). She has a pair of Hunt wheels and they are pretty decent, but I am much more interested in the carbon wheels coming out of Utah that Chris King uses ( Forge and Bond, and some Trek) being thermoplastic they don't suffer the major drawback of more traditional carbon, i.e. the fragility. And they tout less waste as well. I would be keen to try those.
You pay your money and you take your choice.
The $8,500 MSRP difference between something like a $4,500 Aethos 105 Di2 and a $13,000 Aethos S-Works Dura-Ace Di 2 would be a hard sale for me even if I was considering a new bike.
listening from episode 1 and this video with @bikesauce makes me appreciate my first mtb more😂 and also learn the importance of patient when expending with parts and accessories, but still definitely going to spent money for my bikes 😂😂.. but atleast in a smart ways .. ride safe for both of you and happy easter
The disadvantage to a lifetime CK headset, is when purple is no longer cool, you’ll have to drop another 200 on a green one 😅
@rollinrat4850 I think that might prove my point 🙂
I have been a cyclist for nearly 40 years and will never be satisfied on a $1200 bike although my first bike was much less adjusted for inflation in 2024. After nearly being killed in a bike lane a decade ago I moved to gravel / mixed trail. It took 1 mountain bike and 2 ‘gravel’ bikes to get to my $3,600 Rivendell. The Rivendell blows away the prior 3 bikes including a BMC gravel bike and will easily do so with equivalents up to $7k. The real upside is that I can easily work on every component down to the frame in my garage on my bike rack. I get it if the $3600 sounds high but don’t even try to compare it to a Stump Jumper Rock Hopping Specialized or Surly as I have owned both. These would be great entry to immediate level bikes but they don’t handle or ride nearly as well as the Riv. Spending north of $4K IMHO gets into diminishing returns pretty fast. But up to that spend is fine based upon your skill level and disposable income. Cycling is one of my top escapes averaging about 180 miles in the woods per week. Spend for your skill level and use and don’t try to box yourself into a number based on others views of what is right for you. My Riv is a Wolbis Slugstone. Hope this helps!
Got a set of DTSwiss GR 1600 allow wheels for 300 Euros just after christmas. Definitely some good deals to be found
I needed a shorter stem so I removed the Bontrager stem and replaced it with a Thompson X4 elite on sale for $50 brand new. I don’t feel like I got too spendy for a part that’s not that important.
Value is in a complete buid. Probably Tiagra or 105 level from one of the biggest brands, and probably carbin fork and aluminum frame. 2-3k.
I genuinely don’t see any value in a headset more expensive than a Hope. They are bombproof and come in all the funky colours of they really bothers you.
It's not necessarily how they spin but how long they last and the amount of damage they can take, Chris King headsets are it, forever headsets.
I can understand $1000-$1500 for a really high quality steel frame (that you can repair over and over), but paying equally that much for plastic wheels that can break if you go off a curb too hard is absolutely absurd.
Carbon wheels don’t break going off a curb, especially if you fit tyres to them.
I would buy a nice headset and cheap bb. Shimano square taper or hollow tech bb’s are cheap, less than $30, and work well for a long time on bikes that aren’t taken care of. I think Chris king has bold marketing claims but they back it up smooth rolling stuff that doesn’t wear out. I’ve had a few old, well used Chris king headsets and hubs and they just work forever with minimal maintenance, are serviced rather easily and feel like they have excellent tolerances and quality in every way (except freehub bodies are soft alloy and gouge up a lot). Also, threaded bb’s are easy to replace with cheap tools. Headset cups and races need more expensive tools I don’t have so I don’t want to ever have to remove them. But yeah cane creek, fsa, probably wolf tooth (never used one) all offer the same performance headsets. Headsets can last forever so buy a nice one once. Bbs will wear out no matter how fancy so economize with them.
I have some budget friendly alloy Sector 650b wheels for $600 Canadian coming in at around 1500g.
"Brand new" Claris is super, even after four years in using it for a least 10 - 20 km per day ...
listening to the chris king headset bit. do headsets actualy break? ive never had any cheap headset break. some of mine ar 14 years old now and cost peanuts. why buy something that expensive when its not needed?
A lot of variables come into play when it comes to the return on investment in mountain bikes. Many of the more entry level less expensive but still quality hardtails may be perfectly fine for someone riding trails in the Midwest but unreasonably rough and less than durable for someone riding the terrain in the Southwest. The point of diminishing returns still exists of course but it’s more variable imho.
I see the point on tires, but $100 is too close too car tire prices for me.$50 is my upper limit. And that still annoys me.
Totally agree with going baller on the bottom bracket. The Enduro XD-15 is worth every one of the 300 dollars that it cost me.
does it last longer than a normal bb?
WAY longer. I've had mine for 2 years and it's as smooth as a fidget spinner. A normal BB would be getting pretty rough by now. It actually took about 6 months to "break in" and spin so well.
Is the party pace podcast only hosted here on RUclips? I can anly find old episodes of plp talk in my app.
Yes. Only on YT. Hosting is expensive.
@@PathLessPedaledTV fair enough 🙂
The best way to experiment with frame geometries is to build your own frames. Take the bike obsession to the next level!
Yeah DIY, because buying tube sets, a milling machine, tooling, building jigs, a nice TIG set-up, some kind of paint booth, spray guns and primer, base coats, color and clear and then of course you should probably learn how use and be proficient in the use of said equipment… say, how much are those Ti Colnogo’s with the bald eagle leather handlebar tape and the Blue whale foreskin seat covers because that’s starting to look like a real bargain compared to one of those DIY jobs!
I evaluate all of my bike decisions through the grid dollars for joy
I couldn’t pay more than 1000 for a working bike. You can upgrade as you go later on but as long as its moving and can get you everywhere you want to go then there little difference between a 3k bike and 1k bike when riding it imho
These guys are at about 3x the budget Im OK with. Too many good used steel frames out there for almost no money. Of course, I have time to spend on them.😊
Rivendell or qny Blue Lug bicycle that coststhousands of dollars when you could just pick up an old Specialized rock hopper and build it up. If that is the cost of alternative cycling then I will just buy a second hand top of the line gravel bike for waaay cheaper and use that bikepacking.
Yup, or search out a GT mountain bike from the 90's for an indestructible, great ride as is, or, build it up with modern components. On the road side, get a vintage steel road bike, (in my case a Kawamura Nishiki) update with modern components and enjoy a silky ride that can still be quite light by today's standards. Cheaper and fun.
Good points. CL has many a bike that fits your criteria!
@@ForeverDownByLaw Couldnt agree more. I love PLP but I have to say that the industry that they are rallying against (Specialized, carbon bikes, Electronic shifting) I'm all for that but dollar for dollar the stuff "party pace" dude espouses also sits on the high dollar spectrum only they sit on the other side of the fence. A Rivendell and a Breadwinner. Seriously!!!??? A Sklar. High end just the same minus the performance.
Sure old bikes are great, but nothing wrong with people supporting the current bike makers and trying to save on components at the same time.
@@libraryofpapelBuying nice stuff and supporting makes if you have enough money is fine. I'm also doing it. But why then not say that? Instead the podcasters here seem to want to rationalize their love for premium products, which makes them seem out of touch and hypocritical. For most people bikes costing less than 1.5k are totally fine. And suggesting otherwise will be harmful for bringing cycling to the masses.
Hey,
I have a complicated situation, and seek some personal knowledge/ experience. I am in need of getting across the country, and do not have a combustion engine, nor the will to sit on a bus. I currently do not have a bike.
I have done a 6 day tour before, but didn't learn much as that bike was a loaner and I didn't have to use much brain power regarding the setup/ equipment/ brand of bike. This will be my first multi month tour, I am seeking advice on getting a bike, I know I fit a 58 bike, but thats practically all I know. I am on the side of Ultraromance where the older bikes worked, but don't know how obsolete the components from the past are, many people have shared I'd have a hard time finding parts if they broke.
I can buy a new bike, I have a $1400 budget, but would rather I think, stick to what worked in the past. I am headed across canada.
Any recommendations regarding it all? brand? year? size of tires? recommended touring tires? frames?
I am sorry for such a general question but I have to start somewhere. . .
Thank you so much.
May peace find you.
I pack my backpacks exactly the same as Nolan - why would you just shove everything in? Flat stuff against your back, heavy stuff as low and near you back as you can get it.
Electrolytes mix and gels are a huge waste of money! Make your own drink mix with Koolaide and a dash of salt and buy some gummie bears or jelly beans in bulk and put ‘em in a zip lock
Seth’s PB,J&B Burrito/Quesadilla is one of the best food hack bike carry on food you could ever make. 😇😇
Even better if you swap the salt for lite salt
@@jonathanzimm5511 Right. You get some potassium and sodium that way.
I buy bulk dextrose to get that good 2:1 glucose to fructose mix. The KoolAid is about half the price of each batch.
I use fig bars for solid food.
$800. Tops
I see the point on tires, but $100 is too close too car tire prices for me.$50 is my upper limit. And that still annoys me.