How BUDGET is TOO BUDGET for a Bike?
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Hanging out with @thebikesauce talking about at what point does a bike become a good deal to cheaply made?
Check out his channel at: / thebikesauce
MERCH STORE: www.pathlesspe...
PATREON: / pathlesspedaled
INSTAGRAM: / pathlesspeded
I’m building my first bike right now. Thanks Russ for your inspiration. It will be a “budget “ bike with a difference. I picked up a Velo Orange Pass Hunter frame on sale. Thanks Igor. Because I chose downtube friction shifters, pre owned Brooks saddle, pedals, seat mast and handlebars that helped. I went high end with Growtac brakes, but you can’t blame me for wanting some bling bling. Aluminum Sector wheels are budget friendly and come in around 1500g. I pulled it off for about $2500 CAN or about $1800 US. Keep up the good work guys. I appreciate any thoughts on my build. Enjoy your day my friends.
Spent it where it counts!
The titular subject is always a fun one to get into. Recently, I was riding my first century on a $15 yard sale touring bike. At a small town along the way, I stopped for a sandwich and a kindly old man pulled up on a lime green Surly LHT. We started chatting, and eventually got to comparing our bikes which were very similar. Triple chainring with granny gear, cantilever brakes, etc. basically identical. I told him, yeah I picked this one up nice and cheap, didn't specify the $15 number. Then the guy says "yeah me too, it was on sale for $850!" It honestly gave me the weirdest feeling and I didn't mention anything after that. I've always been one to go for barely ridden vintage bikes but I recognize that I wouldn't be able to get one for 15 bucks if people like the old man didn't buy them new.
I would say definitively that "Too budget" is when the bike or rider gets wrecked by regular use. I bought an ebike last year that didn't hold up to my heavy winter use at all. Welds rusted out, chain frozen, freewheel stuck, all bolts rusted up after just a few rides, electronics not interchangeable with standard parts. Might've been fine for someone's elderly mom who only takes it out once in a blue moon in dry weather, but I need to ride through the salty slush then leave it chained to the dumpster all day. Forgoing fenders for monetary reasons would also be "too budget" for me, or being too cheap to replace a saddle that causes a rash.
My daily driver is a 90s Giant mtb that I paid 25 bucks for. It was all original, had done subdivision duty for a few years and got parked in a shed.
New cassette, chain, tires, and all the bearings got repacked.
It's my hundred dollar touring bicycle.
Still on original cables and brake pads after all these years.
I’ve a friend went to work in Spain (Madrid). They were keen to learn Spanish, but as soon as their work colleagues realised they were English, they all spoke English to practice their language skills 😂
My first quality dropbar bike was a 2nd hand AWOL. I remember squeezing the brakes and almost going over. It was fitted with TRP Spyres. I didn't know anything about them, but knew that they stopped me good.
The next bike I had was a 2nd hand Diverge, running Claris groupset. Again, I didn't understand the differences, I just rode the bike, and it worked just fine.
Once I started watching RUclips videos and learning about components, all of a sudden the Claris groupset was not enough. 😂😢
I'll vote for the Nicasio+. That was a fun bike. The Microshift groupset worked real smooth.
Many of these budget components are more than enough for newbies. Problem is the reviews are being done by experienced riders who know what to look for. Sometimes I think ignorance is bliss (and easier on my wallet).
I just installed the Sword 2x10 (Got it through Universal cycles) and I think it's fantastic! ... Especially for the price. It shifts flawlessly, derailleurs are solid and quiet, and it all looks REALLY good on the bike. The shift levers do rattle on the brake levers if I hit a big enough pothole but I can make that go away with some felt if I end up caring enough. I do have aftermarket cranks so I cant speak to the sword crankset but overall, I'm stoked with it
I have a Sirrus 1.0. Rim breaks, Microshift components, front and rear racks, fatter tires and a 660 jones bar. do about 1k a month on miles, only needed to replace the crankset with a cheap Shimano one. All in less than 800 bucks with literally brand new parts and bike. I take it on everything, single track, graded grav and road. You can have fun on almost anything as long as it moves reliably.
Most relevant budget / cost disclaimer - yes, bicycles and bicycle equipment cost several times more than they did 20+ years ago, but even the less expensive bikes today are better than most of the better bikes of decades ago. End of story. Having lived for more than a few decades, I'm still amazed at how presentations like yours sound and look like you're in relatively close proximity. I can remember when Telstar allowed for the broadcast of intercontinental real time communications. It was a really big deal back then, in the mid-60's.
Thoroughly enjoyable podcast with Nolan. Really enjoyed the lively discussion on "budget" bikes. I've failed to give up my very old bikes because budget bikes with good brakes are easily over $1000 and my side pulls and Vbrakes work so well. But I'll take another look at Marin and Kona as you've recommended.
And I really do like your ride videos and enjoy the scenery and people.
I bought a slightly used Surly LHT with 26" wheels for my gravel/all-road bike. Same wheel size as my old Univega mtn bike so that I don't have to have different size tires, etc. And when the LHT is down for maintenance or repair, the Alpina Pro is a suitable understudy. Both bikes have the original Sugino crankset modified, as per Russ, as compact doubles with bar end friction shifters.
Tanks, Russ and Laura!
For alt bars, I like the surly bridge club.
I have mine set up drop bars but sub $1500 and the geo is fun to me!
Mine is set 2x with a super sub compact crank, and I have a 700x47c Wheelset and a 650 x2.5” Wheelset
I really want one but the stack and reach is way too aggressive and uncomfortable
I'm digging this podcast. Budget bikes are difficult to find all the wants. But thru axles should be standard this day and age on anything above $800. Obviously prices are ever changing.
Thanks guys 😀
I second nearly all of that. Maybe even your take on thru axles. :) I am just not 100% sold on thru axles for budget atb/gravel/touring, though. My concern with them is that the bearing balls in the hubs have become considerably smaller than with the good old shimano QR hubs.
A long time ago, Sheldon Brown wrote a rant about Maillard Helicomatic hubs that used 5/32“ balls. Too small and with too weak cones for his opinion. And now, many years later, here we are: Using 5/32“ balls or similar in a lot of hubs (sealed cartridge ones as well as shimano cup and cone).
I feel like the transition to thru axles also forces a shift in hub bearing choice away from cup and cone hubs to sealed cartridge. Reason is, I doubt that those smaller bearings will hold up as long as the old, bigger ones. They probably need to be replaced more often which makes cartridges the way to go. Right now, cartridge hubs generally are more expensive, and bearing presses aren‘t cheap either.
@@PRH123 that’s true. Maybe that‘s because often there are no relevant performance differences as long as bearings are new. But beware bearings are worn… then things get interesting.
By the way, the fact that shimano hub bearings seem to tend to come overtightened from factory and this is kept as an open secret by the industry is pretty damn disgusting in my opinion. My Sister‘s road bike came with hubs so misadjusted that they almost felt indexed.
@@PRH123 i would really like to trust my local bike shops. But man… it just doesn‘t feel right. I want bikes to be environmentally friendly. Inducing premature wear because of negligence or greed as part of a business model just makes me furious. In todays market, bike shops could sell proper bearing adjustment service on new bikes as an investment in sustainability. Or they can keep telling customers that they need a whole new wheel when cup and cone bearings are toast after a few hundred miles… because it’s cheaper.
Edit: Typo
@@tillman5529 QR is fine but thru axle all the way
I'm a little late to the party with this video. But I got an All-City space horse on sale this summer for 1500. Absolutely in love with it. Perfect touring/ all road/light gravel bike. With all-city closing up shop, there may be some sales coming up. Slightly above "budget" category, but I feel like you're getting a really beautiful bike for a fair price.
I have three bikes all within the 2k - 4k range (carbon road, steel road, and steel mtb). Back in May, I bought a base model Marin DSX to use back east when visiting my parents rather than traveling with one of my bikes. Gotta say that I found hella lotta bang for the budget buck with the DSX. Most noticeably, Marin saved on the cost with the drivetrain--going with microshift. But tbh, I've become something of a fan of microshift so to me, the DSX feels like it should be worth more than the 1k that I spent.
I got a State 4130 All Road flat bar on sale for $719 with pedals. Then I changed the chainring, brakes, tires, and (waxed) Shimano chain for $240. For $959 I got a decent bike with really stiff shifting. So I threw on some a Shimano SLX shifter and derailleur that I paid $0 for and I'm super happy with it. But I did all that work myself and if I didn't know how to do that I might have been disappointed.
For a lot of things the mid can be better than the high because the expensive stuff sometimes (most of the times these days) is full of the latest questionable breakthroughs. For example I've found the Continental Ultra Sport iii feels better than any tire with puncture protection and is tougher than any super light race tire.
TRP Hy/Rd are awesome cable actuated brakes, sometimes come up in second hand market cheap
If you're worrying about "too budget" then you should be buying secondhand! My current ride is a single speed, flat barred, aluminium framed possibly ex-track bike I bought from my LBS for £170.. it's light, basic, a bit tatty, but all I need in flat east London, and it came with a warranty too! New cheap bikes can be horrible, reuse/recycle for the best cheap bikes!
My first gravel/all road build started off as a used and cheap Gravity Liberty FB frameset ($500 new). The LBS let me raid their parts bin, and I built it as a 2x9, 50/34 x 11-42, with old shimano flight deck briifters, bb7 disc brakes, and 650b mountain bike wheels. That bike absolutely shredded. All in, it was probably $350 to build. It’s now my friend’s dad-bike for cruising around town with his daughter in a trailer. But that bike ate up the chunkiest gravel, raced cyclocross, and ripped through singletrack.
I think the cost range for a “budget” bike varies with the type of rider. For example, hydraulic brakes aren’t necessary or provide significant value to an older recreational rider whose average speed is in low double digit mph.
Always waiting for your podcast guys! Great work! 😎💯👍
I LOVE your ride videos! Please do more.
Hey, I bought a cap because of your video, but mostly because it is a good cap and a good channel.
Pretty long intro 😅 (podcast on budget bikes starts at 24:50)
you're a hero!!!
Bought the Decathlon Triband RC120 after seeing great reviews on it. On sale, the equivalent of 600 US dollars. Bought extra set of wheels plus same cassette, gravel tires, a rear rack, bottle cages and bottles and SPD pedals, all for less than 400 bucks more. So now I have an awesome road racer and gravel bike for under 1000.
BTW, the mechanical disc brakes are just as good as the Tektro hydrolics on my Marin hardtail and my Marin hybrid
I'm just waiting for the budget bikes to start coming stock with sword. I built up my 90s Hard Rock with Advent X and I can't stand the shift cable coming out the side; trying to run a big handlebar bag is tough.
Really want a steel bike with all the bikepacking braze-ons, decent 1x drivetrain (Sword), and *good* mechanical disc brakes.
Budget bikes is interesting for someone like me who's mostly been riding mountain biking. I saw a deal for a State 3140 Gear and dipping my toes in road riding I've picked one up and enjoying it so far on a trainer, too cold to ride outside right now but expect to take it's first ride this weekend. A friend gave me a set of Shimano wheels, feels like a major upgrade over the stock and should be fine for tooling around the city and if I ever outgrow it not a lot down the drain. So a good budget buy in my opinion.
1) Pros on a roll, 2) I think you are good at the video essays. Also, remember you are close to France.
I gotta come back to this, gentlemen, I tuned in for budget v. too budget and all this camera talk is a snooze. But no worries.
Yeah. All this camera talk on youtube gets suspicious. Seems like AI is trying to pretend it’s real humans, now.
budget for me normally means buying used. you can still get some quality products for not much money if you buy used. but it comes at the cost of time hunting through tons of ads and biding your time until what you want becomes available
I would define two levels of budget bikes, one for basic transportation and one for sport and fitness. For the most basic I draw the line at 7sp freewheels and triple cranksets, both of which (and the shifters that go with them) should all be gathered and melted for scrap. Shifters and brake levers should be separate components. An aluminum bike equipped with an 8sp freehub and a 1x or 2x up front, with rim brakes, should run for about $650, not counting fenders and a front wire basket. Steel frame would be better but will run $100 more. Restomods can be had or made for less but you have to find a good candidate, which can be a challenge. That’s my bottom line.
I hear you. These can work fine, it’s true, particularly on older bikes with decent parts. I just think entry-level bikes get the lowest grade, and these are just more of a pain to upgrade. My experience with triples is, yes, front derailleurs should be friction, but I think they require more shifting than other options for the same range. Wide doubles and cassettes have been a positive development, and only really in the past 15 years or so. But I work in a shop where whole days can be filled with triples and freewheels. They used to be better.
@@slantedorbit I agree. I have an old 93 Univega Via DeOro with a triple and CX700 index shifters. I restored the bike and setting up the front index shifter was far easier than my wife's 2018 entry level Felt Verza. Ended up going with a grip shifter which acted more like a friction shifter and was easier for my wife to deal with.
Please, please do a Long form in depth video essay on friction shifting
I would look at Decathlon bikes if wanting to review budget bikes available in the EU. I've purchased a couple of their entry level 27.5 hardtails on clearance (one for $98, the other $150 which were both 75% off retail). Not sure what their availability looks like in España, but maybe worth lokking into since they do a full line of bikes.
I'm watching your Videos no matter what because I like you and your style. So, for me it almost doesnt matter what the topic is :)
I'd love to get a triban rc520 105. Shimano r7000 seems like an inflection point in mechanical componentry. Would be nice to get my hands on some before I lose the option...
I know that both of you actually know this, but I feel the need to point out that the cost savings for budget bikes are more than just in the components. Of course, geometry decisions are mostly cost free (probably aside from nice chainstay yokes or custom curved chainstays). However, manufacturing quality and complexity, obviously, is an important mean to cut cost. For example, I was interested in a surly preamble frameset, in part due to its geometry and its lack of finicky rear dropouts (yes, I am talking to you Straggler), but its amount of braze-ons for the cable routing is so reduced to an absolute, bare minimum that it pushed me away. Separate lines of cable routing would reduce bends and, hence, cable friction but would also add to the cost. Apart from that (not talking about surly here), paint quality, weld quality and manufacturing tolerances or quality control seem to be cost cutting measures for some brands.
Marin nicasio 2 can be had at 1100-1200 usd here. Hydraulic tiagra, great geometry. But polygon does always have the killer spec and better quality oem part. I think the best budget bike is a polygon spec, with nicasio 2 frame.
Through axles, hydraulic disc brakes = “upgrades” until something goes wrong with your break line or someone steals your rear wheel and you can’t get another axle for 6 months.
I have a poseidon x ambition and a polygon siskiu t8, love my budget bikes
Up until about 2008 I could tell you how far down the food chain you can descend. Now, I'm clueless. I just don't find off the peg very interesting.
@PathLessPedaledTV Now that you're in Europe, maybe you can more easily review German brands like Bombtrack, 8bar, and Standert Bicycles? I liked your review of the Bombtrack Hook ADV from a few years ago. I'm not sure how Brexit might effect getting bikes for review in Spain, but British brands like Pipedream, Cotic, Fairlight, and Mason Cycles might be of interest to your audience.
Paah, Brexit, a minor inconvenience / Sarc.
😂
For the record, the Customs Union “birthday” was 1st of July 1968, back in the days of the EEC, before the UK joined it officially in 1975.
First ever invented Time-Machine is🏴 , it’s engineers set the clock 55 years back in time (as of 2023) expecting no change.
Genius !
Absolutely, before that goods weren’t, almost, moving at all between countries.
Obviously, the british wealthy well-traveled elites always had access to whatever continental goods they wanted, since ££ never were an issue for them.
Hoi Polloi had no use of goods they didn’t know they existed and couldn’t afford, anyway.
Time machine set further back in time, Victorians and before.
FYI, first attempt at eliminating red tape goes back to the BeLux 1921 and BeNeLux CU agreed on principle on Sept 5, 1944, entered into force after almost 3 years of negotiations on Jan 1, 1948.
That was 75 (!) years ago.
Unsurprisingly, before the BeNeLux was even born (circa 1947) one Lord Can’t-remember-his-name predicted that due to a massive difference in GDP between 🇧🇪& 🇳🇱 + trade imbalance what was regarded as an experiment would not work.
Little known, that in 2023 the BeNeLux still exists pursuing integration at granular level between its members.
Hope this helps.
@@cyclistefroisse9267 I see, thank-you. I don't live in the UK. I was being optimistic, thinking that there might be a well-functioning UK/EU customs agreement in place that reflects contemporary issues and conditions 7+ years after the Brexit referendum. Anyway, I am a fan of steel British bikes. I'm sure Russ will find products to review in Europe.
I had a Marin Naccico + it was pretty fun bike and the Microsoft 1x10. The budget that I rode recently was the Giant Revolt pretty well spec'd out for a budget bike
I kinda care what you record with!
Really the rider has to start with being honest about how they are going to use the bike because that really drives what are the "must have" features. Some bikes like Diverge don't have tubeless ready wheels until you're well past the budget bike price. Journeyer doesn't have tubeless ready tires, but that's a lot cheaper to replace than wheels. Sub $1000 is really budget. Not sure anyone is going to do hydraulic brakes for that
Too budget /is/ the Walmart or Amazon brand crap. Where shortcuts are taken which effect not only reliability, but /safety/.
My first real bike was definitely budget; 500$ for a Fuji hybrid. 3x8 drivetrain, but hydraulic disks. Then I bought a fatbike and later a light touring road bike once I got the cycling bug (the hybrid worked fine, but doesn't have big enough tires for real winter riding, nor skinny and faster or more comfy for summer road riding since I found drop bars are much more comfortable with my physiology.)
Goodwill bike for $20? That the price for a used stained oxford shirt at the Goodwills near me. An old Schwinn 10 speed from the 70s is over $200.
And no matter the camera, it’s still reduced to 72 dpi, and screen quality for most viewers.
lol I’m an idiot. I got to the live very late and asked about the state all road like it was a novel question not realizing that was literally the basis of the video and had been covered extensively….
Whoops.
These might make for a good podcast. Have you ever considered publishing them that way?
You can use the RUclips audio app and play it offline like a podcast.
@@PathLessPedaledTV While very true, it’s a bit of a hassle to do so when I listen to podcasts through a dedicated app on my phone. Podcasts for me are background to chores such as driving, changing litter, and doing dishes, and I roll through a bunch at 1.5x. Having to open a separate app just won’t happen.
I know because I’ve wanted to listen to you and Nolan chat for ages, and have definitely tried! 😂
Keep up the great work regardless! ❤
Keep in mind creators make money on views on RUclips, but practically nothing on listens (spotify, etc).
@@camt1818 Sure, that’s definitely a consideration, and a valid reason to decide against a separate podcast. But some choose to do it anyway-and Path Less Pedaled itself *has* existed in podcast form before-so I figured it was worth asking.
Euro racer to Party Pace conversions could make for good content...
Yokozuna's Ultimos are four piston and kinda pricey. The Motoko is the two piston that's reasonable for a budget bike.
In videos this long, could you start adding chapters? It really helps navigating through the video.
I support the pro cyclist content! More of them might be gravel curious post roadies than we think!
Is anyone here willing to share some experience with normally priced mechanical disc calipers in combination with newer shimano sti levers and carefully routed, compressionless housing? Like in the avid bb7, shimano br-r317, trp spyre or even hy/rd price range, but not like in the paul klampers or growtac equals spheres. I‘m thinking about a budget dropbar build with mechanical disc brakes.
I run TRP Spyres with R8000 levers on my commuting tourer (build from a Brother Cycles, Kepler frame). I really like them. I can get them running without rubbing and the actuation is positive and doesn’t require too much effort.
@@rob-c. Thanks a lot, thats great to hear! The Kepler is the frame I am leaning towards, too. What do you think, is it or could it be capable as a fast and nimble gravel/allroad bike?
I got a $200 steel single speed bike from Nashbar, a few years ago. I think it’s great as a commuter - but I did change gearing (front and rear), replaced better cantilever brakes, tires, added a Brooks saddle and a Nitto Bosco bars. And fenders. I don’t like to think about how much all this “cheap” bike ended up, but still overall I think it was a good bike now.
@rollinrat4850 Can‘t tell you how valuable all this information is for me right now. Thanks a lot!
I got some new Tiagra 4700 brifters for cheap and hoped that they could be the controls for a solid all mechanical gravel/allroad bike. At first, I thought about a canti setup a la cross check but those knuckleheads at Surly decided to retire the frameset. Arrr. My Tektro RL340 (xlc branded) paired quite nicely with low profile cantis IMO, as long as it wasn‘t too technical, so I thought I might give those Tiagras a try. As much as I like underbiking, I m not sure I would like down tube shifters for light single trails for long.
Any thoughts on TRP HY/RD?
@@francisnep6761 sounds like a stylish and fun bike. Sometimes cheap things feel better than expensive ones for me. Generally, I dont like it when things get so precious that they cost a fortune to replace when stole or broken.
The scarcity of cantilever compatible, sport geometry, affordable steel frames these days makes me a little sad.
Don’t quote me but I think if you’re family send packages declaring items as a gift could avoid paying some taxes.
There is Girona Gravel Girls
24:42 for Title topic
Maybe focus on European gear and explore the cycling culture there. Lots of stuff accross the EU.
❤
What sort of philosophy are you digging into?
The very definition of 'spoilt'.
do some more immigration stuff
Wow, 15 minutes in, and you're still doing small talk.
Gotta say I disagree on thebikesauce's take on the importance of through axles and hydraulic disk brakes.
Nice to have? Sure. Necessary? No. Not at all. Not even close.
I don't get the blame on the bike with the bad mechanical disc brakes. Sounds like a problem with those components or the setup, not mechanical disc brakes as a category.
I think the problem with inexpensive mechanical disk brakes is one of perception, not reality. Peoples' first experience with mechanical disc brakes may be with an old hand me down bike that was in need of some servicing (worn out cable housing, pads, rotors, or worse), or a cheap department store bike with a super inexpensive front disc brake and stamped steel V-brake in the rear. And their first experience with a quality bike shop bike today is very likely to be with hydraulic disc brakes. So of course they'll think, "Oh, this is great, hydraulic disc brakes are so much better, I'm never going back to mechanical!" But the problem was bad brakes in the first place, regardless of the type.
As you note, budget solutions are easier with flat bars. Avid FR-5 levers are great and cost just $20! For drop bars, you've got the Tektro RL530 at about $40, so it's not that much more. But if you want brifters, that's going to cost more. Either way, Avid BB-5 and BB-7 brakes work great and aren't very expensive. But I think by the time you add BB-7s, FR-5 levers, and cable and housing, you're about at the point that you can get a set of entry level Deore hydraulic brakes, which are probably more than enough for everyone except gravity riders and tandems in the mountains.
I like the ease of serviceability of mechanical disk brakes - but the reduction in maintenance with hydraulic disc brakes is certainly appealing, especially to those who don't do their own mechanic work. I don't think there's a compelling argument for most (non-gravity) riders for superiority of performance of hydraulic disc brakes over properly set up mechanical disc brakes - and I think humans are quite adaptable to the differences in modulation amongst difference brakes.
And similar for through axles. I think through axles are one of those improvements in bicycle componentry like 2 piece cranks versus square taper - they're better in most respects technically, but the old way actually worked fine for the vast majority of riders and riding conditions, and they don't have any real impact on actual operation of the bicycle.
Anyway, I think the biggest thing I would avoid compromising on with a rigid bike build is gearing. Having appropriate gearing will make or break a bike as much as frame geometry and body position. Areas to cut on would mostly be the items I've mentioned already. I'll take square taper over ISIS/Octalink/Powerspline any day, and if 2 piece Hollowtech II type cranks are not in the budget, square taper is great. There's lots of affordable crank options in square taper too, even in leg length appropriate short cranks. They're usually lightweight and have standard chainring BCDs. Brakes - BB-5s, Deore hydraulic, whatever. Doesn't have to be fancy. Wheels - wheelsets with Shimano M525 and M756 hubs are the gold standard for inexpensive and bulletproof hubs.
❤