I bought my Navitimer at the age of 20, I am now 77, the Navitimer has been my only watch worn daily other than when having its services, at times when I had less desirable occupations it performed perfectly, it will be a till death do us part situation when my son takes over ownership, I have been so pleased by my purchase that never once have I been tempted to look at alternatives.
@@YallaMiamisir there’s plenty of little old men that are ww2 vets and bought high end watches with their deployment money, plenty of “poor” little old men with vintage Rolex and breitling watches
Even if one does not use the slide rule functions, The Navitimer is a piece of horological history stemming from the 1950s. I love my Sinn 903 version. The Seiko Flightmaster is worth a mention as it has special spot in pilots watches.
I am a pilot and Navitimer had been my dream watch before I was a pilot. When I had a chance I bought my 46mm UB0127 and that’s the one I wear whenever I am flying. My next dream is to pass it to my son when he s grownup :) Salute to all Navitimer lover watch geeks!
Whenever the Navi comes up in watch discussions, my two passions collide and I feel I must add some info to my fellow watch geeks. In the pilot community a Breitling Navi is held in the highest regard and every fledgling pilot to commercial captain desires to own one some day. So, while all of us watch geeks criticize some of its aspects, remember, there is a another large community that appreciates everything about this series.
I second this! I was a C-130 navigator for 20+ years & we still used a whiz wheel regularly when flying (on the H-model C-130s anyway…)! I definitely have an appreciation for the Navitimer & intend to own one someday.
@@MikeSmith-er1qs Sorry-I just saw your comment! Very cool! We’re you P-3s? I went through the 562nd at Randolph in ‘99-‘00 & got to Pope in May ‘01. I retired in ‘20 (8 yrs active, 13 reserve)!
I worked in the aviation industry for almost twenty years. Breitling still has a huge presence in the aviation community. They have air racing teams and pilot magazines are loaded with Breitling ads. It's a fun brand for sporty, less pretentious types. My exposure to nice watches all began with the navitimer.
Great video and thanks for bringing the Navitimer to the spotlight… I’m an owner of many beautiful watches though my heart loves my 43mm navitimer with reverse panda layout. While it doesn’t have the same vintage inspired cues as this new one, it’s still one of my favourite watches of all time.
There are a few lines in Tom Wolfe’s book the right stuff. The astronaut candidates had to report in civilian clothes. They could recognise each other because of the cheap suits, crew hair cuts, and their watches. Which had scales to record everything except the sound level of cannon fire. I also liked the mention that for many of the guys this was the most expensive personal item that they owned. They had to be talking about the navitimer.
Thanks for a very nice review. This watch was on my radar before but I ended up with the 765AVI. Also a 1:1 faithful remake of Breitling historical aviation piece. Same movement as this 806. Less busy dial and features a very interesting “bigeye” minute register subdial with lume marking. Same size as the 806 too. Have a look you might like that one better like I do.
I have a Breitling Jupiter Pilot, and as a Navitimer type, it is great. Sure, it is a quartz, but it is still great and runs so well. Aside from some huge and hideous watches, Breitling are class.
Solid review and explanation, I own the 2022 Navi Cosmonaut with the bracelet and it's a killer, I'm considering this 806 to add to my collection. The B09 is a killer movement and a simpler caliber with less parts and jewels count in a modular setup for easy service down the road. The Cosmo uses a one of a kind B02, a true 01 but modified for hand wound only and finished and decorated for a one off piece, the B02 is not even mentioned on Breitling 2023 catalogue, interesting I say.
Aviation watch or pilot watch is a watch that I seldom feel essential to me since I have a speedmaster pro already. However I think there is no harm to have one Breitling watch in one’s watch collection.
I agree!! This reference is the best ‘modern’ Navitimer.. have you seen the rose gold version?? Even better in my opinion but both stunning pieces!! 🙌🏻👍🏻
That's a honey for sure. I remember seeing one and being instantly tempted. Note that Sinn makes perhaps the best Navi. Well, made, they just discontinued for now.
Amazing video, Max. This watch is lovely & even more so in person. The finish & attention to detail while still keeping it close to OG in feel is pretty trick. We should do a side by side one day, if you keep it 😉
Love it except for the fauxtina. But I need to see it in person for final judgement. It’s so beautiful that I could think it’s more of a color design over fauxtina which is why I like the NTTD Seamaster. Congrats!
It’s not fauxtina. Breitling did a lot of research into it and discovered they used a very light cream colour back in the fifties. So it’s accurate to the original. It’s a fantastic reissue but I found the strap gets chewed up by the buckle and I really wish they’d not put an AR coating on the outside of the plastic crystal. It scratches so easily and you can’t buff it out like with a Speedmaster.
@@milesnorthrop5581 Like I stated, I haven’t seen it in person but the numerals look darker to me in video/pictures like fauxtina which I hate. Max said they’re lighter in the metal. EOM straps don’t bother me as I like changing straps. AR on the plastic crystal could be problematic depending on how you wear your watch.
A correction for you, this is an identical match lume colour to the original watches. Absolutely ever single detail about the original was reverse engineered for the re-edition.
You are right: form follows function. But on one hand this watch provided much needed functionality to pilots, while you admit that for its most basic task - telling time, picking up the hands is not that easy.
Lovely watch. As for me I’ll stick to my Cosmonaute 81600, circa 1995, cream lume on a Forstner Komfit mesh bracelet. An unpractical timepiece at times but reeks aviation heritage.
I think it would have been interesting to add the Sinn connection to dispel any uninformed accusations of copying in the design of their wonderful 903 and note the challenges that led Breitling to sell the rights to the Navitimer design to Sinn.
Its very cool and its very iconing but I'm just not brave enough to buy something I am not sure if it is aesthetically beautiful or ugly, it probably is both at the same time. Its easier for the speedmaster to be the omega icon of the skies, the design is beautiful and timeless.
The WatchCrunch x Jack Mason colab was awesome. Not much of a traveler so the GMT wasn’t for me. Looking forward to more creations in the future for sure.
No one needs a slide rule on a wristwatch, or even a tachymeter for that matter, but at least the tachy looks cool, whereas the slide rule looks busy and nerdy - the dial gives me a headache. The biggest practical problem though is that the slide rule functionality means water ingress - it's got next to no water resistance. Website says 3 bars. That's a concern. Breitling make other chronographs with 10 or 20 bars of water resistance - a far more sensible option.
The slide rule likely has little to no effect on water ingress. Also, the slide rule is a GREAT function for those of us that know how to use them. In the modern electronic world, no one NEEDS one, but that applies to watches in general as well. We are not in this hobby because it’s practical.
I'm waiting for some mad lad to combine the ancient Mesopotamian technology of an abacus with a chronograph. Come on Breitling, you can do it! This comment was sponsored by the Abacus Association of America - "Making Abaci Great Again" (c)
Hi Max. I really like how you present your videos regardless of if I like or not the watches you’re presenting. I’m so tired of those sleazy tattooed guys wearing baseball caps backwards on RUclips who exhibit tons of expensive watches in plastic pockets just to show that they are dealing with sleaziest but richer people than them as clients. I totally love the way you do your presentations. Thank you and keep going
@@WatchCrunchOfficial no problem dude. As a Swiss guy, you have no idea how much i appreciate your approach on watches. For a lot of Swiss, watches don’t represent necessarily a social standard but more like a national pride, ambassadors of our industry and skills. So we need more true watch lovers like you rather than those idiots who think that the more shiny and expensive, the better.
Question: Did you add this to your personal collection and if so, did you replace it with your 38m blue Navitimer that you have? I think the best looking Navitimer ever made is the RB0120, the rose gold 43m one from two generations ago with the gold wings. I have the RB0120 which is the steel version. That being said the 806 re-edition is a beautiful navitimer as well and one I originally considered. The 806 is also has the best value retention of any modern Navitimer, it's the one doesn't immediately lose nearly half its value due to its limited production and desirability, although that only matters if you buy it from an AD which were sold out a while ago.
No Max, I don't think that Navitimer is the best version of the Navitimer. What bothers me about that edition are the beaded bezel, the hand filled lume plots and the fact that the hands don't reach all the way to the edge. My special edition Navitimer is the best one. I have the better B01 movement, applied numerals with lume and an applied B with wings on the dial. At 43mm, it fits my wrist just fine and looks good doing it.
It’s nice But not the best breitling ever made in my opinion. Personally my favourite navitimer is the cosmonaut My favourite breitling is a toss up between that amazing premier in pistachio or salmon, and the discontinued avenger blackbird
Personally I would (if i want broke) wear a Breitling ovver a Rolex if given the option Side note Love the app, unfortunately it's not optimized for Android phones. I've sent messages to support with no response.
Not even Breitling’s best Navitimer imo! I think the Navitimer B02 Chronograph 41 Cosmonaute is Breitling’s best offering, with its unique 24hr movement, from the Unitimer 1765. The original 1960’s Unitimer 1765 is the best watch they’ve ever made imo though, much nicer than the Navitimer
Great watch and choice. I really don’t understand the squeamishness of going with vintage. To address your points, all watches need service at some point and the original 806 movement doesn’t present any problems. Also, authentication of new watches can be a thing, as you know. There is something about owning a true, patina ( not feaux) watch that nobody can get by just walking into a AD. What would Indiana Jones 0:04 want? Not a OEM reproduction, I’m sure. I hope you didn’t buy this new because the value will drop like a rock. You could have added another watch or put those funds toward your next purchase. It is a cool watch but you should try vintage. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.
Controversial. But just because of all your previous bullet points. Who really needs this watch? Completely redundant to plus 99% percentage of the population. It just looks good on the wrist, that's all. Plus, it lightens your wallet.
Why are we pronouncing it as 2 words? It’s not a “Navi-Timer” it’s a Navitimer. Pronounced Nav-a-timer. It’s not pronounced Navi-gation. It’s pronounced Nava-gation.
Join the discussion at WatchCrunch: www.watchcrunch.com/Max/posts/i-found-the-best-breitling-ever-made-43948
I bought my Navitimer at the age of 20, I am now 77, the Navitimer has been my only watch worn daily other than when having its services, at times when I had less desirable occupations it performed perfectly, it will be a till death do us part situation when my son takes over ownership, I have been so pleased by my purchase that never once have I been tempted to look at alternatives.
Has it ever broken that you've got it serviced? That's really cool 57 years...
Amazing account. Thank you for sharing 👍🏻
I clicked on your profile, and you seems like you don’t even know what is Breitling.
@@YallaMiamisir there’s plenty of little old men that are ww2 vets and bought high end watches with their deployment money, plenty of “poor” little old men with vintage Rolex and breitling watches
Even if one does not use the slide rule functions, The Navitimer is a piece of horological history stemming from the 1950s. I love my Sinn 903 version. The Seiko Flightmaster is worth a mention as it has special spot in pilots watches.
Thanks for the review. I’m finally starting to appreciate these watches after first seeing them on the wrists of my supervising attendings in the 90s.
Took me a while too!
Such an underrated watch. Absolutely love it. Thanks for looking beyond the obvious and putting together his awesome review.
I am a pilot and Navitimer had been my dream watch before I was a pilot. When I had a chance I bought my 46mm UB0127 and that’s the one I wear whenever I am flying. My next dream is to pass it to my son when he s grownup :) Salute to all Navitimer lover watch geeks!
Whenever the Navi comes up in watch discussions, my two passions collide and I feel I must add some info to my fellow watch geeks. In the pilot community a Breitling Navi is held in the highest regard and every fledgling pilot to commercial captain desires to own one some day. So, while all of us watch geeks criticize some of its aspects, remember, there is a another large community that appreciates everything about this series.
Great perspective Mike!!
I second this! I was a C-130 navigator for 20+ years & we still used a whiz wheel regularly when flying (on the H-model C-130s anyway…)! I definitely have an appreciation for the Navitimer & intend to own one someday.
@@chriscon8463 I am a retired NFO and was an instructor at the 562nd!
I’m flying some ufo and I’m using this watch
@@MikeSmith-er1qs Sorry-I just saw your comment! Very cool! We’re you P-3s? I went through the 562nd at Randolph in ‘99-‘00 & got to Pope in May ‘01. I retired in ‘20 (8 yrs active, 13 reserve)!
Love this! Almost got it but ended with a reverse panda navitimer instead. Still preferred to have a see through caseback
The Navi is a very special watch that is often overlooked by collectors.
Agreed!
I worked in the aviation industry for almost twenty years. Breitling still has a huge presence in the aviation community. They have air racing teams and pilot magazines are loaded with Breitling ads. It's a fun brand for sporty, less pretentious types. My exposure to nice watches all began with the navitimer.
Agree with all your points. I do prefer the winged B logo from the Schneider era,
@@michaelriera6277when was that? Thanks
Before the current Kerns era
Love this video. I never looked towards Breitlings, but I’m willing to try now. Cheers Max
Breitling is back in full force under Kern. One of the best brands now IMO. And they’re resurrecting Universal Geneve.
I really like it. Making the dial and subregisters the same colour makes it less busy, that is what I like about my Lunar Pilot
I'm considering getting this one to add to my collection, for now I love my cosmonaut 1962 Scott carpenter which is very special.
Great video and thanks for bringing the Navitimer to the spotlight… I’m an owner of many beautiful watches though my heart loves my 43mm navitimer with reverse panda layout. While it doesn’t have the same vintage inspired cues as this new one, it’s still one of my favourite watches of all time.
Thanks!
If I was to purchase a Breitling the Navitimer would be the one but would probably opt for the original over the reissue. 😊 Nice review.
And save a few bucks!
Great review of a fantastic and iconic watch, thank you!
Cheers 🍻
There are a few lines in Tom Wolfe’s book the right stuff. The astronaut candidates had to report in civilian clothes. They could recognise each other because of the cheap suits, crew hair cuts, and their watches. Which had scales to record everything except the sound level of cannon fire. I also liked the mention that for many of the guys this was the most expensive personal item that they owned. They had to be talking about the navitimer.
Great video! My personal favorite Breitling is the Avi-765 Re-Edition
Very cool
I really love this model with the original look and beaded bezel but my absolute favorite is the limited edition 747 with that cream and red dial ❤
Very nice Navitimer. Loving my Twin Sixty. A bit complicated but it's sparkly.
Nice. I am going to buy one of these for my son one day. ❤❤❤
The Navitimer is an iconic watch and one that any serious watch collector must have in his collection.
Thanks for a very nice review. This watch was on my radar before but I ended up with the 765AVI. Also a 1:1 faithful remake of Breitling historical aviation piece. Same movement as this 806. Less busy dial and features a very interesting “bigeye” minute register subdial with lume marking. Same size as the 806 too. Have a look you might like that one better like I do.
I don't know if it's the best, but it sure looks great on you Max.
Thanks Michael!
I absolutely love this watch and would love to buy one. The only problem for me is the lack of a date function, which is necessary for my work.
It’s one of the icons without a doubt.
This watch was made for Scientists, Engineers and Pilots. The functionality and legacy make it a prized possession.
I may buy a vintage navitimer or the sinn variant when I get out of college. There's something well and truly special about them.
Definitely!
I have a Breitling Jupiter Pilot, and as a Navitimer type, it is great. Sure, it is a quartz, but it is still great and runs so well. Aside from some huge and hideous watches, Breitling are class.
Solid review and explanation, I own the 2022 Navi Cosmonaut with the bracelet and it's a killer, I'm considering this 806 to add to my collection. The B09 is a killer movement and a simpler caliber with less parts and jewels count in a modular setup for easy service down the road. The Cosmo uses a one of a kind B02, a true 01 but modified for hand wound only and finished and decorated for a one off piece, the B02 is not even mentioned on Breitling 2023 catalogue, interesting I say.
Agree, I like the new/ old looks
Aviation watch or pilot watch is a watch that I seldom feel essential to me since I have a speedmaster pro already. However I think there is no harm to have one Breitling watch in one’s watch collection.
My favorite Breitling. Even if I actually prefer (the much more expensive again) red gold edition with a reverse panda dial. One of my grails 🙂
It's subtly cool
Masterpiece of a watch ! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🏆🥇
I bought the last unit! Can’t wait!
Woohoo!!
By far the best navitimer.
I agree!! This reference is the best ‘modern’ Navitimer.. have you seen the rose gold version?? Even better in my opinion but both stunning pieces!! 🙌🏻👍🏻
That's a honey for sure. I remember seeing one and being instantly tempted. Note that Sinn makes perhaps the best Navi. Well, made, they just discontinued for now.
Amazing video, Max. This watch is lovely & even more so in person. The finish & attention to detail while still keeping it close to OG in feel is pretty trick. We should do a side by side one day, if you keep it 😉
Great idea! Thanks bro bro
Totally agree. I’ve got a love hate relationship with Breitling watches. Still don’t know if I would buy one.
I'm sure with time I will start loving this watch...but today, so many things going on in the dial....
Love it except for the fauxtina. But I need to see it in person for final judgement. It’s so beautiful that I could think it’s more of a color design over fauxtina which is why I like the NTTD Seamaster. Congrats!
It's pretty light
It’s not fauxtina. Breitling did a lot of research into it and discovered they used a very light cream colour back in the fifties. So it’s accurate to the original. It’s a fantastic reissue but I found the strap gets chewed up by the buckle and I really wish they’d not put an AR coating on the outside of the plastic crystal. It scratches so easily and you can’t buff it out like with a Speedmaster.
@@milesnorthrop5581 Like I stated, I haven’t seen it in person but the numerals look darker to me in video/pictures like fauxtina which I hate. Max said they’re lighter in the metal. EOM straps don’t bother me as I like changing straps. AR on the plastic crystal could be problematic depending on how you wear your watch.
A correction for you, this is an identical match lume colour to the original watches. Absolutely ever single detail about the original was reverse engineered for the re-edition.
Always loved the Navitimer.....
Your video implies that Breitling invented the circular slide rule. Hardly - the concept is centuries old. But it's still an amazing watch.
I've been keepin it crunchy
You are right: form follows function. But on one hand this watch provided much needed functionality to pilots, while you admit that for its most basic task - telling time, picking up the hands is not that easy.
🤣 true
Lovely watch. As for me I’ll stick to my Cosmonaute 81600, circa 1995, cream lume on a Forstner Komfit mesh bracelet. An unpractical timepiece at times but reeks aviation heritage.
Agree with you, the Navitimer is top notch.
Miles Davis wore a reverse panda dial Navitimer, that version is cool.
Dial to busy? Citizen says : "Callenge accepted"
I think it would have been interesting to add the Sinn connection to dispel any uninformed accusations of copying in the design of their wonderful 903 and note the challenges that led Breitling to sell the rights to the Navitimer design to Sinn.
How about the new sinn 903 st II? Really interested to know how Sinn push the wr to 200m with the rotation slider
What would you choose, the 1959 re edition or the 1884 limited? Way bigger dial I know, but busy, true to navitimer style
Its very cool and its very iconing but I'm just not brave enough to buy something I am not sure if it is aesthetically beautiful or ugly, it probably is both at the same time. Its easier for the speedmaster to be the omega icon of the skies, the design is beautiful and timeless.
The new GMT 41 is 😮
I love breitling
The WatchCrunch x Jack Mason colab was awesome. Not much of a traveler so the GMT wasn’t for me. Looking forward to more creations in the future for sure.
We are working on something you might like 😉
I love the Navi. 41 is better than 43 (I think). Thank you for the review. I didn’t know about this one. Is there a ghost date position?
No ghost date
I would really want to compare the navitimer vs IWC pilot chronograph
If it had 100m WR it would be an ultimate watch for me...
So buy the new Sinn 903 St II. 200m WR
No one needs a slide rule on a wristwatch, or even a tachymeter for that matter, but at least the tachy looks cool, whereas the slide rule looks busy and nerdy - the dial gives me a headache. The biggest practical problem though is that the slide rule functionality means water ingress - it's got next to no water resistance. Website says 3 bars. That's a concern. Breitling make other chronographs with 10 or 20 bars of water resistance - a far more sensible option.
The slide rule likely has little to no effect on water ingress. Also, the slide rule is a GREAT function for those of us that know how to use them. In the modern electronic world, no one NEEDS one, but that applies to watches in general as well. We are not in this hobby because it’s practical.
Best Breitling ever made is my one. Breitling Blackbird Blacksteel.
What does the inner most ring 1:10 through 9:00 measure?
I'm waiting for some mad lad to combine the ancient Mesopotamian technology of an abacus with a chronograph. Come on Breitling, you can do it!
This comment was sponsored by the Abacus Association of America - "Making Abaci Great Again" (c)
🤣🤣
Hi Max. I really like how you present your videos regardless of if I like or not the watches you’re presenting. I’m so tired of those sleazy tattooed guys wearing baseball caps backwards on RUclips who exhibit tons of expensive watches in plastic pockets just to show that they are dealing with sleaziest but richer people than them as clients. I totally love the way you do your presentations. Thank you and keep going
Thanks my friend. I appreciate that 🙏
@@WatchCrunchOfficial no problem dude. As a Swiss guy, you have no idea how much i appreciate your approach on watches. For a lot of Swiss, watches don’t represent necessarily a social standard but more like a national pride, ambassadors of our industry and skills. So we need more true watch lovers like you rather than those idiots who think that the more shiny and expensive, the better.
It certainly has a place in this world….just not on my wrist.
Steve Jobs didn’t even know what a smartwatch is. 😂
Question: Did you add this to your personal collection and if so, did you replace it with your 38m blue Navitimer that you have?
I think the best looking Navitimer ever made is the RB0120, the rose gold 43m one from two generations ago with the gold wings. I have the RB0120 which is the steel version. That being said the 806 re-edition is a beautiful navitimer as well and one I originally considered. The 806 is also has the best value retention of any modern Navitimer, it's the one doesn't immediately lose nearly half its value due to its limited production and desirability, although that only matters if you buy it from an AD which were sold out a while ago.
Yes, this is replacing the 38. Mainly because of the movement
@@WatchCrunchOfficial the 38 mil was a nice little Navitimer but that’s a nice upgrade.
Sorry I still prefer Breitling premier over this. Its dial layout and color (pistachio and salmon) is simply a lot more comfortable to the eyes.
No Max, I don't think that Navitimer is the best version of the Navitimer. What bothers me about that edition are the beaded bezel, the hand filled lume plots and the fact that the hands don't reach all the way to the edge. My special edition Navitimer is the best one. I have the better B01 movement, applied numerals with lume and an applied B with wings on the dial. At 43mm, it fits my wrist just fine and looks good doing it.
❤❤❤
I love it, an icon and full of pressence watch, but 38 mm for me, please
Regards from Spain
I’m seeing navis listed for 2-3k all over eBay. Are they really going for 30% of the original value on resale or are these just busted?
It’s nice
But not the best breitling ever made in my opinion.
Personally my favourite navitimer is the cosmonaut
My favourite breitling is a toss up between that amazing premier in pistachio or salmon, and the discontinued avenger blackbird
At this price, i stick to my Casio "Navitimer", thanks.
i own this watch #Loveit but not my daily wearer, probably due to the acrylic crystal.
Personally I would (if i want broke) wear a Breitling ovver a Rolex if given the option
Side note
Love the app, unfortunately it's not optimized for Android phones. I've sent messages to support with no response.
I have four brightlings a navitimer a world a legend and a limited edition of 250 navitimer lo
The best breits are avengers))
Not even Breitling’s best Navitimer imo! I think the Navitimer B02 Chronograph 41 Cosmonaute is Breitling’s best offering, with its unique 24hr movement, from the Unitimer 1765. The original 1960’s Unitimer 1765 is the best watch they’ve ever made imo though, much nicer than the Navitimer
its funny he said Steve Jobs when Samsung released their Gear watch YEARS before Apple Watch was released!
I guess more is not less.
No: missing water-resistance
Great watch and choice. I really don’t understand the squeamishness of going with vintage. To address your points, all watches need service at some point and the original 806 movement doesn’t present any problems. Also, authentication of new watches can be a thing, as you know. There is something about owning a true, patina ( not feaux) watch that nobody can get by just walking into a AD. What would Indiana Jones 0:04 want? Not a OEM reproduction, I’m sure. I hope you didn’t buy this new because the value will drop like a rock. You could have added another watch or put those funds toward your next purchase. It is a cool watch but you should try vintage. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.
Yeah people just get screwed when they are not experts on frankenwatches.
The extremely low 30bar WR is a pity for a modern day watch .
A tool watch Allright
are there literally any good watch youtube channels or nah
Not for my tastes.
Controversial. But just because of all your previous bullet points. Who really needs this watch? Completely redundant to plus 99% percentage of the population. It just looks good on the wrist, that's all. Plus, it lightens your wallet.
Why are we pronouncing it as 2 words? It’s not a “Navi-Timer” it’s a Navitimer. Pronounced Nav-a-timer. It’s not pronounced Navi-gation. It’s pronounced Nava-gation.
The Navi timer is a useless watch these days. Lol. Only for looks. Confusing looks.